October 31, 2006

"The Democrat approach in Iraq comes down to this: The terrorists win and America loses."

Hardcore rhetoric from George Bush.

Dick Cheney is somewhat more elegant about it: "It's my belief that [the insurgents are] very sensitive of the fact that we've got an election scheduled... [They believe] they can break the will of the American people," and "that's what they're trying to do."

Josh Marshall reads
the linked article and comments: "Get ready for the fangs and knives... The desperation will be ferocious. Imagine everything from the last six years rolled into one toxic week. An electoral gauntlet of hacking knives and fire. But, then, where did one party rule ever end serenely?"

A gauntlet of hacking knives and fire? That's one crazy image. Like something out of "Edward Scissorhands" or maybe "Yellow Submarine" -- remember The Dreadful Flying Glove?



Ah, but wait. Only conservative usage writers insist on the gauntlet/gantlet distinction, and since Marshall's no conservative, he's allowed to stir up distracting glove imagery as he makes his point that the President is getting really, really desperate.

Everyone knows Bush speaks inelegantly. Is he charged up as the election nears? I hope so. He should be. Imagine what people like Marshall would say if he seemed ennervated and resigned. And it's not as if we aren't going to see Democrats reveal their sharp edges this week. Fangs, knives, fiery gloves, what have you. And it's not as if Democrats aren't going drop their guard and let a blunt phrase slip out.

UPDATE: If you listened to the audio at that last link, there's more commentary here, here, and here. It really is amazing how politically inept John Kerry is.

109 comments:

Mortimer Brezny said...

Did John Kerry just call the troops in Iraq stupid?

Though, it is true that infrantry requires lower scores on the entrance exam.

Meade said...

The other Simon Kenton and the other gauntlet.

Anonymous said...

Yep, that's the way John Kerry supports the troops: imply they're stupid/lazy just to score political points.

Goesh said...

Meade, one of the companions of Simon Kenton on the fateful day Bonah captured him was my great, great, great, great, great grandfather Alexander Montgomery. The Shawnee war party killed grandpa as he rushed for the river after he tried to kill Bonah, who was menancing the captured enemy combatant Simon Kenton. They scalped grandpa then repeatedly slapped Simon's face with the scalp. Simon, grandpa and the other fellow had taken some Shawnee horses and that's why they were chased to the Ohio river, not because they were on a recon mission. It goes to show what can happen in the absence of Geneva conventions - stealing, abuse of detainees, mutilation, torture. More importantly, if grandpa had been trying to read, write and cipher better, he might not have been stuck in Indian country. Proof positive of this is the fact that his two sons, Alex Jr. and John, were themselves in combat against the British and Indians at the age of 16 and 15 respectively.

Shanna said...

Holy Crap, that John Kerry quote is offensive! Why don't you come down south and say that to some veterans, John. Sheesh. That was my choice in 2004, and the Democrats think Karl Rove is the reason they lost?

Shanna said...

By the way, who was he speaking to with that quote?

Anonymous said...

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” said John Kerry before an audience of college students (in California?) one week out from the mid-term elections.

I question the timing. George and John both at Yale. Both Skull and Bones. I'm thinking were witnessing the continuation of some kind of secret ritual taking place. Or Kerry bet his soul on some Tuesday Beer and Poker Night and lost to a Bush inside flush. Bush then transferred the rights to Rove and...

You can almost hear the RNC ads making themselves.

Meade said...

Goesh:
Thanks for your interesting, personal, and humorous take.
John Kerry may have been luckier in battle, but clearly your grandpa Montgomery would run mental circles around him in any gauntlet of morality and intelligence.

Al Maviva said...

It's funny reading Marshall's purple metaphor butchery, as that purported teacher of journalism calls out Bush on his inarticulate speaking. I suppose it falls into the pot/kettle category.

Freder Frederson said...

This statement by Bush just shows how clueless or deluded he is. He doesn't even know who we are fighting in Iraq anymore. We are enmeshed in a low level Civil War and "terrorists" (i.e., jihadists who are bent on destroying Western influence on Islam) are a very small part of the problem. I don't know how the president expect to "win" this war if he doesn't even grasp the problem.

If he is just using the war in an attempt to scare the public into voting for Republicans, that would just be despicable.

Fenrisulven said...

If he is just using the war in an attempt to scare the public into voting for Republicans, that would just be despicable.

No, he is correct. The Dems want to abandon Iraq. If we do so, the terrorists will rightly believe they have driven us out. It will justify everything Osama said about the Soviets in Afganistan and the Americans in Somalia. They will teach their jihadi's that the West does not have the will to fight, and radical Islam will be that much harder to defeat. They will have learned the lesson of Viet Nam: if we can hold out just a little while longer, the American Left will defeat America for us.

And John Kerry just lost any chance he had left for 08. Good riddance.

Too Many Jims said...

Dems have no plan in Iraq. Elect Republicans because their plan has been working so well in Iraq.

George said...

"Ah, here you are my glovey-dovey.

Go get thee hence, and destroy yon upstarts.

SMASH THEM, SMASH THEM, CRAASH THEM!

O-Blue-terate them!"

Wouldn't Howard Dean make a great Chief Meanie?
But who would play Jeremy, the Fool?

George said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fenrisulven said...

Dems have no plan in Iraq. Elect Republicans because their plan has been working so well in Iraq.

The Dem "plan" would be worse. The Republican plan has dethroned and captured a tyrant who sought WMDS, created free elections, drafted a constitution, and is rebuilding the nations infrastructure. Yes, there have been mistakes and setbacks. There will be more. This is likely the toughest challenge America has ever faced. But the payoff will be a reformed arab democracy smack in the middle of terrorist Islam. The prosperity and liberty of Iraq will cascade into Syria, Saudi and Iran.

Either that, or be prepared to counter-nuke millions of innocent Arabs.

Fenrisulven said...

There is no forward progress at this time.

Explain yourself. Provide details.

MadisonMan said...

This arguing about plans is ridiculous. Neither party has a clue about what will work. If either Party had a good plan, this coming election would be a rout.

I think it's foolish to continue to allow the present people in charge to continue their badly bumbling bungling ways. Whether or not Democratic control of the house and/or senate -- something I'm not sure will happen -- will help in Iraq is unknowable. That is the dilemma for someone like me -- a strong urge to penalize horrible performance (Republicans), but not knowing what the replacement will do.

A third choice would be nice.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Everyone's focusing on what the quote reveals about Kerry's attitude towards soldiers. But it's at least as revealing of his attiitude towards the hoi polloi generally. Would he have used the same grade-school diction if he were speaking at an Ivy League school instead of Pasadena City College?

MadisonMan said...

The beauty of Kerry's quote: it slams the door shut on '08. How could any Democrat in good faith countenance supporting him, knowing that that quote will be rebroadcast ad nauseum.

The inelegant speech of politicians is breathtaking.

Fenrisulven said...

MadisonMan: The beauty of Kerry's quote: it slams the door shut on '08.

This should be an Althouse Proof: When Fen and MadisonMan agree, it must be true. ;)

Joe said...

Pardon my french, but it never ceases to astonish me what an asshole Kerry is.

Fenrisulven said...

He's the elected President, "leader" of the Democrat Party. The RNC should loop his comments in every battleground state till the polls close. At least get the Dem congress-critters to spend time repudiating those remarks.

Al Maviva said...

I don't know how the president expect to "win" this war if he doesn't even grasp the problem.

Probably the same way you can hold yourself out as an authority on the issue, without mentioning the Iranian part of the problem, which is not a minor issue. How can you expect to critique people on this war, if you don't even grasp the problem?

Stephen B. said...

If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.

I guess my friend CPT Anthony Bosheers with a 4.0 from UVA Law didn't study hard enough. I guess my friend CW3 Nathan Donnelly with a 3.9 from Vanderbilt Law didn't study hard enough.

Maybe if they'd studied a little harder they wouldn't be stuck in Iraq.

Mark said...

Kerry's comment shows where his head is really at, which is back in the Vietnam era. What he said doesn't even make sense, since we don't have a draft anymore, and thus there is no issue of poor students being unable to get draft deferrals and having to go to war. No one is in Iraq who didn't voluntarily join the military, or join the National Guard (with the understanding they could be called up).

Fenrisulven said...

I volunteered to serve as an 03 in the Marines. Went through the Highland Park school system in Dallas - top ten in nation for a decade. SAT 1250, ACT 28 of 36 [before they inflated it]. 99% on the ASVAB. GT of 135.

The "too stupid for anything else" meme is tiresome. From what I've seen, its employed as cover for cowardice. If there is ANY common theme I found in the military, its that many come from broken families.

Fenrisulven said...

Forgot to add - my recruiter thought I was nuts for going Open 03. My logic was that I didn't want to join the elite only to become a desk jockey. If I'm not going to the Ivy League, I want to be adventuring across eastern Africa on top of an LAV-25.

And the 25mm automatic chain cannon is a rush :)

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

Classic Kerry.

Why is the idea that many people join the military to be a part of something larger than themselves so hard for people like Kerry to understand?

The Army pays for shit and it’s the hardest money you ever earned.

I enlisted in a Maryland Army National Guard Infantry unit in Nov ’04. I was 30 at the time and hold two degrees in Physics and Mechanical Engineering. I did this because I believed in the cause and wanted to make the sacrifice so that married guys and fathers didn’t have to.

Can Kerry even fathom my existence or am I merely a Rovian construct meant to swiftboat him?

E4
Squad Automatic Rifleman
Guy Who Didn’t Study Much

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

Fen,
A soldier after my own heart. Our stories sound very smiliar with one exception I had a GT137 :)

Fenrisulven said...

LOL. You sound just like my room-mate Zickert, who had the sense to "volunteer" us for the S-3 while I was off guarding the platoon's gear.

I still owe him a drink for that one.

Semper Fi

Freder Frederson said...

Explain yourself. Provide details.

By every objective measure (death rate, crime, public health, electricity generation, oil production, unemployment) except maybe number of cell phones Iraqis are worse off than before we invaded. Could you please explain on how we are making progress towards the goal of a "reformed reformed arab democracy smack in the middle of terrorist Islam"? Every corner we have supposedly turned has turned into a dead end.

If this is, as you say, "the toughest challenge America has ever faced", why the hell doesn't the president act like it. Sure, he is full of tough talk, but he rarely backs it up with tough action or really hard decisions. He has refused to expand the size of the military or order the kind of structural changes or retooling that would really help in fighting the kind of war we find ourselves embroiled in (e.g., forget about armored humvees and buy more purpose-built armored cars designed to withstand mines and IEDs).

Probably the same way you can hold yourself out as an authority on the issue, without mentioning the Iranian part of the problem, which is not a minor issue.

I am always amazed by how many people on this site impute opinions or knowledge to me (or lack thereof) that I just don't hold. If you had asked me in Fall of 2002 what my main reasons for opposing an invasion of Iraq were (and I have been 100% against this war since the beginning) I would have told you that invading Iraq would only serve to strengthen and embolden Iran as they would be able to cause all kinds of mischief with the Shiite majority as they had funded the main Shiite opposition groups to Saddam. Furthermore, I feared that the most likely ultimate outcome of a U.S. led invasion would be a Shiite dominated government more friendly to Iran than the U.S.

PatCA said...

As the Reps get out the "knives," the nutroots will all be at the genteel new movie, Assassination of the President. Or maybe they will stay home and replay the fair, scholarly Farenheit 9/11.

JorgXMcKie said...

Boy, freder's all worked up today. I am glad to see, however, that he's admitting the Bush strategy defeated the insurgency and now we're trying to fix a civil war. That's not easy, but it's doable.

Then I really, really like his bald assertions about conditions in Iraq before and after the invasion. Way to lay the facts out there fred. Oh, I see you didn't. Oh, well, nice try, anyway.

I suggest it's time for another election in Iraq. The propositions to be voted on would be:

A) release Saddam and put him back in power? Yes/No.

B) All American troops leave immediately? Yes/No.

I'm willing to have such an election. Are you freder, or are you just blowing smoke, again?

chickenlittle said...

Isn't a verdict on Saddam due November 5? The reaction to that will in part answer your first question.

Anonymous said...

McCain takes off the gloves, gives friend John a hard jab (via Drudge):

"Tue Oct 31 2006 11:43:14 ET

Senator Kerry owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education. Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere.

They all deserve our respect and deepest gratitude for their service. The suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night. Without them, we wouldn't live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks."

G said...

"Fangs,hacking knives and fire." The evil of it all.

The Repubs should be more like the Dems and use blackface and gay-outing. Far more civilized.

Freder Frederson said...

Then I really, really like his bald assertions about conditions in Iraq before and after the invasion. Way to lay the facts out there fred. Oh, I see you didn't. Oh, well, nice try, anyway.

Please link me to any numbers you have that contradict my facts rather than just saying I am wrong. Fens started this by contending we are making forward progress. We simply are not.

As for the idea of holdin a referendum. What a perfectly ridiculous idea. They couldn't hold an election for anything in Iraq right now.

G said...

On a less snarky note, we would do well to remember something Dag Hammarskjold, former UN Sec. General, once said:

"The pursuit of peace and progress cannot end in a few years in either victory or defeat. The pursuit of peace and progress, with its trials and errors, its successes and setbacks, can never be relaxed...

...and never abandoned."

Kirk Parker said...

Molon,

"Why is the idea that many people join the military to be a part of something larger than themselves so hard for people like Kerry to understand?"

I think people like Kerry are perhaps unaware that there is something larger than themselves.

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

Freder raises some good questions. The problem is, after 3 years of complete obstruction on any issue related to Iraq or the WOT by the Dems, they've got no credibility to ask them.

Rangel's proposal for a draft? Please.

Murtha's redployment to Okinawa? WTF?

Said to no one in particular:

You are not voting for the Dems because you want to win this war. Rather you are voting Democrat because you think it's unsalvageable and you would like to wash your hands of the whole mess so the US can get back to being popular.

azlibertarian said...

PatCA,
...the nutroots will all be at the genteel new movie, Assassination of the President....

I can't remember where I saw it yesterday, and haven't been able to find it, but the box office results for this movie are very unimpressive. It may drop off the radar screen here soon.

RogerA said...

Re John Kerry--the idiot must still think there is a draft--all the democrats have to do is keep quiet for the next week--fortunately for Karl Rove, there is John, the mouth, Kerry--with his usual diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain--what an idiot--and to think this guy came close to being president.

Icepick said...

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

Okay, let's look at the language Kerry used.

"[I]f...you make an effort to be smart...." Make an effort to be smart? Make an effort to be smart? What's that supposed to mean?

"If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Of course, Kerry got "stuck" in Vietnam, so we can infer that he didn't make enough of "an effort to be smart" when he was younger. Apparently, he still hasn't.

Icepick said...

Supporting my contention, Drudge provided this link. Plus, a bonus picture of Kerry looking like someone Flounder from Animal House wouldn't want to be seen with. Ugh.

MadisonMan said...

Rather you are voting Democrat because you think it's unsalvageable and you would like to wash your hands of the whole mess so the US can get back to being popular.

Oh brother. Should I vote Republican because they're doing a heckuva job, Brownie?

I realize you think I'm an obstructionist. It's a horrible job to expect accountability in important jobs.

MadisonMan said...

Icepick, doesn't it look like Kerry is telling the photographer how to take his picture? The man just cannot stop talking.

And Bush looks vaguely unibrow-ish.

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

Madisonman

You're one of the more reasonable posters here and I thank you for that. I think you are also the rare exception that believes that Democratic control of Congress would provide oversight and focus the administration on the task at hand. Theoretically I'd agree with you but the Dems show no interest in oversight for the purposes of winning this war. Instead I foresee oversight as a tool to make our position so unpalatable in Iraq that the American people demand a pullout.

If you think the Dems will offer contructive oversight to help the administration win this war then you are a very tiny minority.

I stand by my earlier comment: By and large you're voting Democrat because winning the war is not feasible and you prefer to just pullout.

Chum said...

'Yep, that's the way John Kerry supports the troops: imply they're stupid/lazy just to score political points.'

A couple of weeks back this graph was all over the blogs except this one. It illustrates very well which senators truly support the troops. The survey was done by the organization Iraq and Afghanistan Veteran of America.

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2006/10/
iava-support-troops-rankings-for-
senate.html

chickenlittle said...

Oh enough with the Katrina stuff already. Today's Democrat has completely perverted Kennedy's phrase.

ask not what you can do for your country—ask what your country can do for you.

Cedarford said...

Agree with others that Kerry just dropped a figurative Max Cleland hand grenade on himself.

"If you study hard and make an effort to be smart, you won't end up being stuck in Iraq".

His explaination that he was really talking about them not being Leaders like Rumsfeld, Bush or Cheney 35-40 years down the road making mistakes that a good education would prevent doesn't wash. He was speaking to students of military age about their own situation and that of young peers of theirs that lacked choices.

(And besides that, Bush got an advanced degree with academic merit at a very tough school...and by all measures - Rumsfeld, Bremer, Franks, Wolfowitz, Feith - even Cheney after he "grew up" - were stellar academics.)

A stupid inept thing to say. People that think he betrayed a mindset of thinking of troops as underachievers in school too dumb to be in college - as victims of low socioeconomic status forced to take military service as their only "option", according to Lefty Democratic cant - are correct.

The Vietnam-era poison of seeing troops as victims, and children of the privileged as immune from harm infected Kerry. And once again shows that Bush should have lost in 2004 IF ONLY the Democrats had fielded a likeable, credible candidate. Bush didn't win in 2004. Kerry lost. It was a hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils election.

There is a kernal of truth in what Kerry said. The gutting of America of good industrial jobs by the machinations of the Ruling Elites HAS left many areas of America without that "option" for promising, hard-working middle class kids who chose the military....while the children and princlings of the Ruling Elites, unlike any other era in US history, see service generally as undesirable given their other "options".

But the truth is the military has a mix of intelligences. I had SATs just over 1400, varsity letters, National Merit semi-finalist, was a published writer....and found I had money issues and hated Big State U. So I joined, as an enlisted in an elite specialty where only 1 in 3 that start (after screening for a minimimum of 33 out of 40 on ASVB and min GPA of 2.9 HS ) - graduate. And found that I was in a field where the average IQ of my enlisted peers was 124 and we had a fair number of truly brilliant individuals in our ranks..All "studied hard" and "made an effort to be smart" and we were in the Gulf War with Iraq and helped ensure the Iraqis never had a chance against our guys...(Lefties hate that "unfairness" bit - thinking war between evenly matched opponents is preferable, if war is to be fought.)

If he had talked about the need to bring in children of the Ruling Elites into the military, like HIS kids, I'd respect that. Because the disconnect of decision-makers from the volunteer military because their kids generally don't serve - is a significant problem. But todays soldiers at whatever level of intellectual talent DO have other options, DO work and study hard, DO make an "effort" to be smart.

And Kerry insulted each and everyone of them, their families, their civilian friends of similar wealth/status/attainment/patriotic motives.

Icepick said...

MM wrote: Icepick, doesn't it look like Kerry is telling the photographer how to take his picture? The man just cannot stop talking.

Yes, and what a break for Republicans!

And Bush looks vaguely unibrow-ish.

The Walker-Bush clan's dirty little secret: W. is the secret love-child of George H. W. Bush and Leonid Brezhnev.

Cedarford said...

Oh, and I will add that the stories of Kerry being widely disliked in the Senate staffer ranks, at his prep schools, and absolutely reviled by his fellow Swift Boat officers ring true.

Arrogant, aloof, treacherous, prone to condescending remarks about "lesser people" than he.

To watch him at work in 2004 only made the Swiftboat charges the man was of unfit character to be Commander-in-Chief more and more credible.

On Election Day, many who were profoundly unhappy with Bush and his blunders nevertheless held their noses and voted him back rather than have Kerry - especially Vets and active duty - other than the small "anti-war Vet activist" crowd..I suspect if another election between the two was held today, Kerry would still lose.

Icepick said...

MM also wrote: Oh brother. Should I vote Republican because they're doing a heckuva job, Brownie?

I realize you think I'm an obstructionist. It's a horrible job to expect accountability in important jobs.


Okay, I'm a conservative Republican, and the only arguement I can make for keeping the bone-heads in my party in charge is that the Democrats that would replace them would be worse. That's really not much of an arguement, is it?

My advice to reasonable Americans: vote for whomever you feel is the least awful choice. The test for reasonability? Well, if you think there are GOOD choices this election season, then you're not reasonable.

Shanna said...

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

Okay, let's look at the language Kerry used.

"[I]f...you make an effort to be smart...." Make an effort to be smart? Make an effort to be smart? What's that supposed to mean?

Yes, Icepick, it was a poorly conceived sentence in many, many ways.

There’s this country song that goes “he’s an old hippie and he don’t know what to do, he ain’t trying to hurt nobody, he’s just trying real hard to adjust.” I always think of Kerry when I hear it. He’s just so lost.

And Bush looks vaguely unibrow-ish.
I think he's cute in that picture. Kerry's just a mess.

reader_iam said...

Actually seeing the video clip of John Kerry's latest gaffe is quite illuminating. It was quite clear that he was not referrring to young people working to avoid becoming Rumsfeld et al 30 years hence.

Big bonus: watching the reaction of, especially, the young lady behind and to the left of Kerry. She appears to not be blessed with Kerry's tin-ear and, therefore, at least fleetingly, looks chagrined.

And as I type this comment? Kerry's on the TeeVee telling us how he didn't say what he said, or at least he didn't mean what he said, or at least Republicans etc. are putting what he said in the worst, wrong light:

"... I'm not going to stand for this anymore. Period. That's the apology people are going to get...."

Heh.

Shanna said...

Okay, I'm a conservative Republican, and the only arguement I can make for keeping the bone-heads in my party in charge is that the Democrats that would replace them would be worse.

I've been there for over two years. I really wish there was a viable option, in fact I voted dem in 2004 for Congress (pointless, because my congressman was going to win). I really did look at Kerry at the Dem Convention with an open mind, I just didn't like what I saw.

The conservative choice in 2004 was hold your nose and vote Bush or hold your nose and vote Kerry.

Jeremy said...

My advice to reasonable Americans: vote for whomever you feel is the least awful choice. The test for reasonability? Well, if you think there are GOOD choices this election season, then you're not reasonable.

It seems like this is a very common sentiment right now. I don't understand why a Kadima-style third party isn't viable. Is it that anyone with any power feels like there's too much at stake?

reader_iam said...

And he thinks McCain should go look for an apology from someone else.

And that accusing him (Kerry) of EVER insulting troops, or even thinking he ever WOULD insult troops, is itself an insult. (Note, he wasn't intending to refer to McCain in the statements expressing that sentiment, I don't think. Although, how it wouldn't apply in that way in the more generic sense, I don't know.)

WTF?

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

I used to love the idea of a 3rd Party. but to get anything done they'll need to team with either the Dems or the GOP.

Then won't we be left with ineffectual coalition government in the vein of Angela Merkel and the CDC in Germany?

The third party option is short term sweet revenge by the voters on carrer pols we can't stand. But I think the long term effects of 3 parties is likely to be painful.

Garage Mahal said...

Can someone kindly show me some examples of "Arab Democracy" in action? There is no such thing, just as there is no such thing as the "Arab world"

Best example on how to deal with wmd's, and rogue countries is Libya, who had much more advanced weapons systems than Saddam ever had. The Bush Admin (and Brits) gets not enough credit for this -- secret back-door diplomacy that de-fanged, and dis-armed a country that had some really nasty shit.

As for Iraq -- withdraw into friendly surrounding areas -- let it flame out -- come back and try to pick up the pieces. And make sure the maniacs that hatched this suicide mission are never allowed policy decision-making again.

p.lukasiak said...

not surprisingly, Ann (I was too busy doing my nails to serve) Althouse has the nerve to question a decorated veteran like John Kerry who only spoke the truth.... you'd have to be an idiot to join the armed forces with George W. Bush as Commander in Chief.

Sorry Ann, but until you get your lily-white upper-middle class ass in uniform and go to Iraq, don't expect anyone with any sense to consider you anything other than an intellectually dishonest and corrupt ideologue who is up to her ears in the blood of americans and iraqis.

You disgust me, as you disgust all Americans who care about our troops.

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

She doesn't disgust all of us.

Keep your comments civil. This isn't MySpace.

Freder Frederson said...

Kerry certainly doesn't have a second career waiting for him in stand-up comedy. But it is clear from listening to the clip of his statement that he was playing on the old "anyone can be president schtick" to insult the president; who didn't study hard, do his homework, or try to be smart, yet ended up president and stuck in Iraq. And he said so in no uncertain terms today.

Shanna said...

From Kerry's statement:
doughy Rush Limbaugh
Ah, Rush Limbaugh obsession rears it's ugly head again. Also, lets make fun of fat people! Kerry says something idiotic and offensive and his response? It's talk radio's fault. And those damn blogs. I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those rotten kids!

Keep your comments civil. This isn't MySpace.
Heh.

Jen and Joel Searby said...

no one can say anything anymore without becoming a sound-byte in the blogosphere. Yet i think there's some serious good here because it forces politicians to be more, not less authentic. My collegue and I produced a podcast today for our company talking about these very issues and the changing face of politics in the "new world" of online political activism. If you're interested, here it is:
http://thehub.orrasgs.com/audio/sgs-2006-10-31-59560.mp3

Gerry said...

Lame spin attempt, Freder. Completely lame.

Joe said...

p.lukasiak,

My nephew volunteered for the Army and served with honor in Iraq. He saw first hand the difference he, and his fellow soldiers, made to the Iraqi people. His greatest frustration is the twisted and warped comments people like you, John Kerry and other defeatests are making.

chickenlittle said...

"Lame spin attempt, Freder. Completely lame."


Josh Marshall is trying the same thing.

Cedarford said...

p.lukasiak said...
not surprisingly, Ann (I was too busy doing my nails to serve) Althouse has the nerve to question a decorated veteran like John Kerry who only spoke the truth....


Ah, the vapid Lefty construct. All have the "moral right" to be anti-war, but only the small subset of the US population that served in the military, or even more narrowly, served in ground combat - have a "moral right" to have a pro-defense opinion...

According to his officer peers in Vietnam, Kerry was a deceitful liar of poor character. As his national campaign came out in 2004, it was evident that most Vets and Active Duty came to believe the Swift Boat group and his peer officer's assessment of Kerry's truthfulness, rather than Kerry. People who never served in the military, particularly those that "loathed" what America's Armed Forces did, were more inclined to believe Kerry's version of his "heroism".

you'd have to be an idiot to join the armed forces with George W. Bush as Commander in Chief.

I'm glad you cut through all the BS spin control Kerry is now spewing out trying to excuse himself, portraying himself as victim - saying he was actually talking about the kid's he was addressing being poor national leaders 35-40 years down the road vs. having to have their military-age butts in Iraq instead of being safe in school.

Of course! he was talking about the here and now to his "here and now" audience. Study hard, make an effort to be smart, you can do well - and if you don't you could be stuck in Iraq. He was talking their careers, their job options, not their possibility of being national decision-makers decades later. "If you fail to study, do your homework, make an effort to be smart" - the implication was - that as lax, lazy, stupid students and young people, you could end up stuck in Iraq instead.

As a Lefty, you instantly knew what he meant when he addressed the young people - "if you have other options - you would have to be an idiot to go and serve your country in Iraq while Hitler-Bush is in charge"

Of course this was said as the POS of the Senate that voted FOR the war in Iraq. And in his latest flip-flop three months ago, said he'd STILL vote for war (and sending the lazy stupid soldiers there) - his beef is Bush's incompetence in the post-war in not giving the lazy stupid troops a real strategy.

p.lukasiak - Sorry Ann, but until you get your lily-white upper-middle class ass in uniform and go to Iraq, don't expect anyone with any sense to consider you anything other than an intellectually dishonest and corrupt ideologue who is up to her ears in the blood of americans and iraqis.

Althouse can speak for herself, but I personally resent the smug arrogance of twerps like you who think the whole Internet community, including bloggers who you post on as a guest can be personally insulted and called dishonest murderers if they disagree with your little corner of "Twerp-world"

p.lukasiak - You disgust me, as you disgust all Americans who care about our troops.

As a Vet, I believe you have it the other way around.

And the Democrats, despite the significant failure of Republicans to rule competently and for the common good rather than their venal interests - will never themselves be a decent ruling Party unless they ensure they never let unpatriotic twerps on the fringes such as yourself into positions of power and influence.

And Kerry's angry non-apology this afternoon just dug his hole even deeper. And gifted the Republicans with another major Kerry gaffe.

Garage Mahal said...

If Repubs are for our troops -- why are Iraq vets coming back from Iraq by a 50-1 margin, as Democrats? And the one R is going to lose.

Anybody??

I have a theory....

Molon_Labe_Lamp said...

Jen And Joel

I agree. Except when you have someone like Kerry who could use a good dose of in/un-authenticity if you follow me.

Freder, you're an artist. One day that party of yours will give you some material you can really work with.

Gerry said...

"Josh Marshall is trying the same thing."

Stunning, isn't it?

I guess we are supposed to believe that Kerry was saying that one should study hard, or else one might get us stuck in Iraq...by being elected President.

They honestly believe that everyone but them is a complete and utter moron and will buy whatever excuse they come up with.

MadisonMan said...

The problem with voting Republican is the underlying message that I think the war is going swimmingly and George is doing a Heckuva job, and we should just keep torturing people and spending money like there's no tomorrow. But that's not what I think at all.

The problem with voting Democratic is the underlying message that is George W. Bush is an idiot and get us the Heck outta there! Well, that's not what I think at all, either.

That's why I'd like a third choice. So I'll vote Libertarian, maybe, for the US Senate. I know Senator Do-Nothing MoneyBags doesn't need my vote.

Gerry said...

"why are Iraq vets coming back from Iraq by a 50-1 margin, as Democrats?"

For the same reason that the Arizona Cardinals are winning every game they play.

Salamandyr said...

If Repubs are for our troops -- why are Iraq vets coming back from Iraq by a 50-1 margin, as Democrats?

I'd be really interested in seeing the survey you have that backs that up. Otherwise I'm gonna have to call bs on that one.

Ann Althouse said...

That guy who told me to join the Army... doesn't seem to realize how old I am!

Garage Mahal said...

Salamandyr

I was wrong. Sorry. I committed my own worst pet peeve.

Its 10-1 favor of Dems

Total of 50 Vets overall running as Dems.

MadisonMan said...

And only 5 running as a Republican?

I hadn't read that. How are the Republicans doing? Is GWB stumping for them?

Mortimer Brezny said...

No offense, but the Marines are not exactly the same as the Army infantry divisions.

RogerA said...

Ann--is your keister really lily white? I would recommend that nude cruise or whatever the supreme court justice did. Lily white butts are disqualifying for the army--we only except poor impoverished, ignorant cannon fodder.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Of course, Kerry got "stuck" in Vietnam, so we can infer that he didn't make enough of "an effort to be smart" when he was younger. Apparently, he still hasn't.

No, he volunteered during the era of the draft after going to officer school, or whatever. He chose it when others had to go against their will. So he would say he wasn't "stuck". Just to be clear, I'm not defending Kerry and I have never voted for the man.

I wouldn't put it past Kerry to hurt the Democrats' chances in 2006 just to help himself in 2008 -- there are plenty of military-hating Democrats this will rile up, believe it or not. I know liberals who root for American soldiers to be killed. No, I'm not making that up.

Pogo said...

I for one am glad Ann did her nails instead of being on a swiftboat with Kerry. Heck, I'm just glad she does her nails.

Sorry, Democrats, best thing to do here is call Kerry an idiot and step away from him; he's starting to smell like three-day-old fish.

isn't there a Failed-Pol Rehab Clinic in L.A. or Montana, where Kerry can disppear to for awhile, with Foley perhaps? Some good 12-step program where they admit they have no control over their idiot mouths, and subsume it to a higher power?

Mortimer Brezny said...

Actually, now that I see Kerry's explanation and press release -- in the Washington Post article -- I think Kerry planned this. The way it was worded is exactly the kind of thing the GOP could be counted to jump on, especially coming from Kerry, and the ambiguity in the statement and his explanation seems too well-written so quickly for it to be an extemporaneous mistake; it was likely calculated. We're talking about a Senator who sends out press releases while he is at dinner in a restaurant and calls for procedural moves in the Senate while he is in foreign countries.

He's a rather calculating fellow. I'll give him that. This rings as hollow as Clinton's explosion on Fox.

Garage Mahal said...

I know liberals who root for American soldiers to be killed. No, I'm not making that up.

Yes, you did just make this up.

Icepick said...

So he would say he wasn't "stuck".

Everyone in the military today has volunteered, so this explanation doesn't wash.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Yes, you did just make this up.

No, I actually didn't. I actually had a conversation with a friend who made the remark that he hoped more American troops died in Iraq, because we shouldn't be there. He also claims to be equivocal on Chavez's regime in Venezuela and thinks it is great that Chavez is trying to give us a hard time. Furthermore, he also thinks that until an international body, i.e., a world government, has total control over all the nukes, it's just fine for Iran to pursue them to counter our power in the region, and he thinks, even though there were real flaws in the Kyoto Protocol, we should have signed it anyway, just because it's an international agreement. Likewise, he believes we should join the International Criminal Court just because it is international, and didn't care when I explained to him how silly universal jurisdiction is. I know more than one person like this, and they all call themselves liberals and all voted for Kerry. I live in a blue state.

Mortimer Brezny said...

So he would say he wasn't "stuck".

Everyone in the military today has volunteered, so this explanation doesn't wash.


Yes, but there is no draft today, so the argument would be that people who volunteered were forced by economics, etc. His argument would be those kinds of pressures did not influence volunteering in his day. So it does wash, actually.

Mortimer Brezny said...

You know what, maybe I should just join a local Republican club, because you just made me realize why I dislike many of my friends.

Gerry said...

Hmm.

For this...

"Its 10-1 favor of Dems

Total of 50 Vets overall running as Dems."

...to be evidence of this...

"why are Iraq vets coming back from Iraq by a 50-1 margin, as Democrats?"

...(even if it was written as 10-1 originally rather than 50-1), it would require it to be true that all Iraq vets are coming back and running for office.

Seeing as there are only fifty or so Iraq vets as candidates, and there are a lot more Iraq vets than that, then I would suggest that the evidence presented does not support the original assertion.

What we do know is that Democrats made a conscious effort to recruit Iraq vets to run. That is about the extent of what one can draw from that statistic.

Richard Fagin said...

If by calling Se. Kerry politically inept Prof. Althouse means that a more politically competent person (Sen. Clinton?) would do a good job of hiding such comtempt for the military, I say, "hooray for political inpetness." It's long past time the public got a clear, unequivocal look at what really motivates the likes of John Kerry. I'm looking forward to a similar performance by Sen. Clinton, but she may in fact be too politically comptent.

Garage Mahal said...

What we do know is that Democrats made a conscious effort to recruit Iraq vets to run. That is about the extent of what one can draw from that statistic.

And/or Repubs didn't make the effort to recruit, or were unsucessful.

Gerry said...

I certainly would not argue that we had a stellar year recruiting candidates, so I guess I would agree to that.

Goatwhacker said...

I have a lily-white upper-middle class ass but also served 4 years in the military. Do I get an opinion?

Cedarford said...

Mortimer No, he volunteered during the era of the draft after going to officer school, or whatever. He chose it when others had to go against their will. So he would say he wasn't "stuck". Just to be clear, I'm not defending Kerry and I have never voted for the man.

Yeah, sure. If you never voted for him, it's probably because you are Canadian/

Without rehashing the full Kerry "service record", he drew a high draft possibility in the Lottery. He was finishing a Poly Sci major, and his deferment request to go to the Saronne to get a graduate degree in French civil affairs was rejected by his Draft Board...at which point Kerry thought a relatively safer 4-year Navy OCS path was bettr than living alongside "stupid, lazy, poor students" of the proletariat for 2 years as a fellow low-class enlisted. After a year of cushy duty, Kerry wanted to be in the ship to shore chauffer fleet of boats that took offshore officers and some enlisteds into Vietnam land bases for recreation and "important meetings". While he was in boat school, Admiral Zumwalt changed the mission from VIP chauffering to river combat, much to Kerry's astonishment. But 3 "wounded medals" still got him out in under 2 years....


Garage Mahal - What BS! TRoops are not 50-1 against Republicans. They are 80% Republican, according to pollsters.

As for rejecting the idea that liberals wish US troops be killed is not true - since all Bush-haters "love the troops" - let ne tell you what happened at a wedding.

The bride invited college buddies, 2 of whom were gay and who said - a bit inebriated - that soldiers who believed in "the Chimp" deserved to die or be burned and maimed. Several in the crowd told the bride's father that they wanted his permission to shove the gay Lefties out and slap them around.

He said no. Wait. But join my two sons when I do something about it...

When everyone was seated, he apparantly had already talked to his daughter. Because when he rapped knife to glass, she smiled when he did- and it was to announce that 2 traitors to America were in the room - who wished cousin Kevin and stepdaughter Andie who were in the Armed Forced dead or maimed and that no wedding would happen without their removal.

It was fun to escort the two out. People in fear actually do walk stiff legged. And the blubbering the 2 did was gutless. One who started blubbering was frog-marched screeching and tossed in their car. Both were told to drive off, and clear their traitorous asses out of town before the wedding was over, or be stomped to a pulp on sight.

This all follows in the heels of the old Kerry denouncing his fellow soldiers as "murdering, raping, evil, and stupid drug-taking Jingissssssss Khaaaaanns."

Bush lucked out in 2004. Other than Al Sharton, it's hard to imgaine a worse politican than Kerry. Anyone else, that they could have ran back then, I'm pretty sure our badly flawed "Decider" would have been a one-term President.

Sara said...

Oh.My.God.
We are really, really, doomed aren't we? We have a world situation with bombs poised at our heads; and according to some of your posters - it's NOT IMPORTANT.
and I blame the news media that REFUSE to report the news objectively. I have family members that are basing their voting on sound bites they get from CBS, NBC et al - and have no idea what the real situation is. They don't have time to find it out, either. So they rely on the 'big 3' who, I imagine must be in 8th grade somewhere in Utopia and never grew up.
We are dealing with propaganda, my friends. The true patriots are the one's rebelling - and I do not include all Republicans in the patriot category.
Well, it is all going to be a great surprise, isn't it? When we have our final attack.
I am going to vote straight Republican, whilst holding my nose, and then going home to plant a vegetable garden - and arm myself. Because if it goes south, everyone will be on their own. Yep.

Mortimer Brezny said...

Yeah, sure. If you never voted for him, it's probably because you are Canadian.

So earlier in the thread I'm called a liar by someone on the left because I said I personally know nutty liberals who root for our troops to die; now I'm accused of voting for Kerry by someone on the right because I point out that Kerry would have a valid argument for distinguishing volunteering today (in an all volunteer army context) from volunteering for optional service in a conscription regime.

Why don't you two get together and trade notes? Why would I talk about how silly universal jurisdiction is and lampoon joining the International Criminal Court and ratifying the Kyoto Protocol if I had voted for Kerry? That makes absolutely no sense. I voted for Bush in 2004.

Stop slandering people.

michael said...

well before you folks reach the climax of your group orgasm of outrage over Kerry's remarks, I'd like to remind you folks of how the GOP smeared Al Gore's service, and John McCain's service, and Max Cleland's, and the retired generals who criticized the war, and Gen. Shinseki, and Gen. Zinni, and Gen. Clark, and Paul Hackett, and Tammy Duckworth, and all those purple heart band-aids mocking the Purple Heart medal at the 2004 RNC convention, shall I go on?

Shall I remind you how the GOP relentlessly uses their alleged support and reverence for our military as a propaganda device, and yet has the audacity to complain about people 'who are above criticism' who speak out for the other side, like Michael J. Fox or 9/11 widows?

Shall I go on? Must I draw you a picture? Sorry, I won't share in your group grope of outrage. I think you are all pathetic and you bet I'm going to enjoy the crushing defeat of the GOP next week.

Sara said...

Oh, and by the way: my daughter served in Iraq for a year, in Baghdad, after going to college, and after 9/11 - although she was too old for most of the branches, she persisted until she got in. She was not stupid and not financially in need - and I really resent Stupid-Never-Disclosed-All-His-Records implying that would be the reason.
She's up for redeployment again; shortly, and I really really REALLY worry about who will be in charge. I would go too if I was of an age.

It's hopeless.

I want to go to bed.

michael said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sara said...

You know what? Some other people served, besides your "token" democrats. Many other people. So take your FU right back at you. And rest easy, knowing that no matter how you believe, there are people ready and willing to defend you. No matter what you believe.
Sleep well.

michael said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
michael said...

Some other people served

YES and they weren't all Republicans, and the GOP shamelessly uses our troops as props while sending them to war for a lie, without proper body armor, without a plan, without a goal or clearly defined mission.

I can't think of anything more disrespectful to our troops than that, or to have their Commander-in-Chief - who is a military deserter - encourage the enemy to kill our troops.

And rest easy, knowing that no matter how you believe, there are people ready and willing to defend you. No matter what you believe.
Sleep well.


Take your condescending "you hate the troops but they'll defend you anyway" and shove it straight up your ass.

MadisonMan said...

Gore served, even Ted Kennedy served. Jimmy Carter served. Charles Rangel served. George McGovern served.

And I bet they're all (well, the ones who are alive) ruefully shaking their heads, dumbstruck at Kerry's true ineptness.

Sara said...

Well, you posted all the FU diatribe after all. So why can't I sink to your level?
FYI: my daughter was not a Republican when she enlisted.

She is now.

I, am on the fence.
You - are not encouraging me in your direction.

Sara said...

"Take your condescending "you hate the troops but they'll defend you anyway" and shove it straight up your ass."

You have such a way with words! You should learn more words!

Fenrisulven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
LongHairedWeirdo said...

Cedarford:

His explaination that he was really talking about them not being Leaders like Rumsfeld, Bush or Cheney 35-40 years down the road making mistakes that a good education would prevent doesn't wash. He was speaking to students of military age about their own situation and that of young peers of theirs that lacked choices.


He was firing off zingers at Bush and had just said that Bush used to live in Texas, but now lived in a state of denial.

And an aide explained that his planned comments were to say "you end up getting us stuck in Iraq".

And, Bush, who didn't study hard and try to be smart about Iraq, *is* stuck in Iraq... making such a flub very easy to make.

Sorry to ruin such a fine rant with inconvenient facts, but the fact of the matter is, Kerry had no intention of insulting the troops, or suggesting to college kids that they might end up stuck in Iraq; he was trying to say Bush was stupid to get us into Iraq.

But, if you'd rather spread a hateful lie than to research a bit and discover the truth, be my guest. I know lots of people are slurping up the hate right now, so it must be awfully tasty.

TMink said...

Why is it that angry liberals use so many sexual metaphors?

Trey

TMink said...

Or, is Michael just incredibly horny?

Trey