February 12, 2008

A big win for Obama in Virginia.

And the Republican race is too close to call. On MSNBC, Chris Matthews is saying that would-be McCain voters switched to the Democratic race and voted for Obama.

ADDED: MSNBC is reporting that Obama took 90% of the black vote in Virginia and 48% of the white vote. If you split the white vote by sex, Obama gets a majority of the men (55%), and Hillary's got the white women (58%). Obama is strong with under 40 voters (66%), independents (62%), those making over $100,000 (61%), and those with a postgraduate education (58%). Olbermann's muttering: "Good grief, he won white men... 55%..."

MORE: Olbermann: "And Obama beat her with the... beat the women... ... beat her in women voters." Later: "And the results are in. NBC news has projected that Senator Barack Obama of Illinios will be the projected winner, uh, hence the use of the word 'projection' 3 times in one sentence."

AND: Tim Russert: "The white, ethnic, blue-collar Democrat is voting for Obama in Virginia and Maryland. What does that mean for Wisconsin — places like Milwaukee and Green Bay? And what does that mean for Texas and Pennsylvania?... It's an indication that his coalition is broadening in a big way tonight."

PLUS: Nice to see Obama's Madison speech is on TV. The Kohl Center is packed full, with an overflow room. The announcer said it seats about 17,000, but that is when it's set up for a basketball game. For a speech, there is a lot more seating on the floor.

ALSO: Obama gave a good speech, though he muffed his first effort at saying Mayor Dave's last name (which I won't even attempt to write... just say "Mayor Dave" and leave it at that). Nice Madison touches: birthplace of progressivism, etc.

The Obama speech ends, and MSNBC takes us to John McCain's speech, already in progress. I think he sounds great and don't really understand why people say he's a bad speaker. He's got real passion and sounds like he means it (and then some). (And I liked when he called that CNN reporter "jerk." It seemed affectionate and good-natured.)

So anyway, the speech ends, and that goofily stuffy Keith Olbermann goes "John McCain, speaking after his 3 victories in the Potomac primaries tonight from Alexandria, Virginia, to the tune of 'Johnny B. Goode, instrumental only..." And no sooner does he get those words out then the incredibly familiar guitar opening to the song is over and we hear Chuck Berry singing "Deep Down in Louisiana..."

Olbermann's haplessness seems like a comedy routine. He wraps his windbaggery up by saying that the rule has to be "always speak before, not after Barack Obama," which makes Chris Matthews giggle and me fume. McCain was good! Obama had the usual Obamatude, but nevertheless, let's keep our wits about us: It was within the range of human capacity. A god did not walk into the Kohl Center tonight.

And that Olbermann has some nerve knocking McCain whe he (Obermann) flubs and garbles every sentence he wanders into and struggles to find a way out of.

82 comments:

Alan said...

I hope you go to the Obama rally tonight and take some pictures. :)

Fen said...

My wife & I did likewise in Maryland. Voted for Obama to stick it to Hillary.

Fen said...

..and now there's this rapture-like event shining through my upstairs window. I've been SAVED! Heh.

Smilin' Jack said...

...would-be McCain voters switched to the Democratic race and voted for Obama.

How does that make sense? It would be much easier for McCain to beat Hillary than Obama. If you vote for Obama, you're likely to get Obama.

dbp said...

It looks as if some Republicans went the other way. This is from NRO's The Corner:

Two More Democratic Votes in the VA Primary [David Freddoso]


From a reader:

My wife and I have never voted for anything left of Republican, frequently voting on the Conservative party line when available. Yet today, we both voted for Hillary in the VA primary. Why? Because it seems McCain has it wrapped up, so why waste our vote on the Republican side; she is a lot less scary than Obama in many ways (better the Devil you know), and I think she is more easily beaten with her high negatives and lack of charisma. So we were part of the high Dem turn out today which I am sure you will hear about. And there is no way we will ever vote Dem in November.

We live in a highly conservative precinct (Eric Cantor is our Congressman). I saw many folks today picking up the Democratic ballot also. I think my wife and I were far from alone in our thinking.


02/12 10:55 AM

Hoosier Daddy said...

..and now there's this rapture-like event shining through my upstairs window. I've been SAVED!

I think I know what you mean Fen. I'm sure it went something like this:

Spirit of Obama: HAVE YOU SEEN THE LIGHT?

Fen: YES! YES! JESUS H. TAP-DANCING CHRIST... I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

I mean that's what happened to Jake and Elwood anyway.

fstopfitzgerald said...

Huckabee poised to win Virginia, or come in second in a squeaker?

The Republican and conservative establishments have no fricking clue what they've unleashed. I'd enjoy it if it didn't have such frightening implications for the country generally....

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/DirectoryRiseOfDominionismInAmerica.html

dbp said...

It looks as if the commenters would rather have Senator Clinton as President than Senator Obama. Go figure...

As for myself, I am indifferent:

There are two factors and they work against each other: Of the two Senators, I would rather have Obama as President than Clinton. Obama has a better chance (in my view) of beating McCain than Clinton does. Since I want McCain to win, a Clinton nomination furthers this goal.


If I set values to each outcome and probabilities associated with them, the numbers look like this: Bear in mind, these are just my estimates, which means they are perfect as criteria for setting my opinion.


Value of victory: McCain=80, Obama=30, Clinton=20 NOTE: In reality the McCain # is much less (possibly zero) and the others are negative. The math is easier if all the numbers are kept positive and it doesn't effect the final answer.


Probabilities of victory: McCain v. Clinton = 50:50, McCain v. Obama = 40:60


McCain v. Clinton gives: [(0.5)x(80)]+[(0.5)x(20)]=50


McCain v. Obama gives [(0.4)x(80)]+[(0.6)x(30)]=50


Just in case anybody is suspicious: I didn't choose the numbers to get this result! I did pick nice round numbers because of the uncertainty involved, plus it makes doing the math easy.

lanolin r fruitbat said...

Hey Fen -- in case you missed it downstairs:

Fen said...

Given Bill's inability to control his urges and jeapordize things of value to him [his job, his family], do you NOT hope that Chelsea is the one intern he wouldn't sexually abuse?



What I actually hope is that you're the only sick bastard here who would even imagine such a scenario, let alone post about it with such glee.

I'll bet I'm doomed to disappointment, however.

The Drill SGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Hey Lanolin - I already responded to you downstairs. Third time I've asked you to explain yourself, and you're up here still complaining? Get a life. Or at least find the courage to answer my questions. And do it downthread. Quit mucking up the other threads with your little tantrums.

dpb: Since I want McCain to win, a Clinton nomination furthers this goal.

I was thinking that way, but I don't want to take any chances with Hillary. Her corruption would be worse for the country than Obama's inexperience.

The Drill SGT said...

I voted in the VA GOP primary. I considered voting a spoiler ballot for Hillary, but voted for McCain instead.

My Democratic wife voted for Obama, but says she will vote for McCain in the General


she really dislikes needy anti-femininist Hillary.

thephantomspitter said...

A prediction:

McCain is February’s Giuliani. By March the GOP will have settled on Huckabee.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Olbermann's muttering: "Good grief, he won white men... 55%..."

Gee, Keith, sorry to burst your bubble, but America--even Virginia--is not as racist as you and your dinner party pals think.

dbp said...

Don't worry JohnAnnArbor, if they can't paint us as racist, they can always paint us as sexist.

PatCA said...

Right, John, Olby et al. must be flummoxed! This doesn't fit the narrative, does it?

Middle Class Guy said...

Olbermann's muttering: "Good grief, he won white men... 55%..."


Olbermann is an ignorant bufoon. He should join Governor Ed Rendell who proclaimed:
"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate," he said bluntly.

"I believe, looking at the returns in my election, that had Lynn Swann [2006 Republican gubernatorial candidate] been the identical candidate that he was --well-spoken [note: Mr. Rendell did not call the brother "articulate"], charismatic, good-looking -- but white instead of black, instead of winning by 22 points, I would have won by 17 or so."

Maybe they could have a cross burning or something together.

lanolin r fruitbat said...

dbp said...

Don't worry JohnAnnArbor, if they can't paint us as racist, they can always paint us as sexist.


Very little pain required, alas.

lanolin r fruitbat said...

dbp said...

Don't worry JohnAnnArbor, if they can't paint us as racist, they can always paint us as sexist.


Very little PAINT required.

I regret the typo.

madawaskan said...

Olbermann's muttering: "Good grief, he won white men... 55%..."

What the hell is his point?

The guy is a sportcaster so maybe I'm giving him too much credit....

Roger said...

Where did these latest moonbats come from on the blog? i rather enjoy our resident lefties, but this new group is really out there.

Looks like Hill has lost the african american vote--like REALLY lost the african american vote. Wonder what that demographic will do in the general if Obama is not the democratic nominee.

Balfegor said...

"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate," he said bluntly.

He's probably trying to drum up support for Obama. Isn't he implying that Whites who vote against a Black candidate are racists? And you aren't a racist, are you? Go out there and show it with your vote!

Kirby Olson said...

Huckabee vs. McCain: David vs. Goliath.

ZPS said...

Thank god she is toast. If she doesn't win Texas (and really, Texans aren't that stupid to vote for her), we can finally say goodbye to her and her increasingly creepy hubby. Good riddance to the Bushes, Clintons, and any other low-rent dynasty thinking they can hijack this country.

Middle Class Guy said...

One of the Keating Five, John Glenn, endorsed Hillary Clinton. There goes any criticism of McCain, another member.

Middle Class Guy said...

fstopfitzgerald said...
The Republican and conservative establishments have no fricking clue what they've unleashed.



Yes we do! We are going to unleash all the dominoes so they fall and bury you and the fruitbat. It is called the domino theory.

lanolin r fruitbat said...

Middle Class Guy said...
We are going to unleash all the dominoes so they fall and bury you and the fruitbat. It is called the domino theory


Ah, the Domino theory. That's the theory that got 50,000 American kids killed because of the crackpot notion that a loss in Vietnam would mean that all of Asia, and thence the world, would go Communist.

Good times!!!!!

fstopfitzgerald said...

Middle Class Guy said...

Yes we do! We are going to unleash all the dominoes so they fall and bury you and the fruitbat. It is called the domino theory


Are you actually trying to be stupid?
I can't quite make you out....

madawaskan said...

Middle Class Guy

Balfegor-

I'm pretty sure that Ed Rendell endorsed Hillary.

I've seen him on the campaign trail with her-I think.

vnjagvet said...

It's McCain (winner take all) and Obama (big -- over 40% spread)in VA.

Hillarity! spent the last 15 years in the DC/VA/MD area, so it seems like familiarity breeds contempt.

McCain did much better in the DC suburbs than the Huckster. So those more familiar with him voted for him.

Interesting.

vnjagvet said...

Should be over 20% spread in the Dem race, sorry.

joated said...

You're correct in assuming Rendell is for Hillary. Remember he was DNC chariman at the end of Bill Clinton's final term.

Lawgiver said...

I believe Hillary is in El Paso tonight, tomorrow she will swing through South Texas to include McAllen, Corpus Christi, Robstown, and maybe San Antonio. She polled well with the Hispanics in California and Nevada and is hitching her wagon to them now. She desperately needs to win in Texas. Normally I wouldn't vote in the democratic primary here but if Fen can do it, so can I.

Obama si. Hillary no, porque es una Chupacabra!

AJ Lynch said...

3 Things:

1-Rendell just had Hillary in Pennsylvania and he gave her his endorsement.

2-I would not put a heckuva lotta stock in these "exit poll" statistics. It seems the MSM is using a broad brush to paint detailed results ..i.e. 58% of white men, 90% of black men, etc. and at the same time they are spewing a bunch of "anectdotal data".

3- That said, I say this to Hillary ..."Turn out the lights, the party is over" with credit to Dandy Don Meredith of course.

vnjagvet said...

Networks project Obama and McCain in Maryland.

Exits predict Obama 2-1 over Hillarity! in both DC and VA.

Broom One is in a steep dive.

The Huckster is toast.

Get ready for an historic general election.

It is all over but the shouting.

rcocean said...

McCain just won D.C. - he's on a roll baby!!!

Just pick a part of the country thats full of democrats and will vote for a yellow dog over a Republican - that's McCain country.

Having given McCain the Nomination will Maryland, California,and New York vote for their beloved "Maverick" in November?

AJ Lynch said...

VNAjvet said:

Broom One! LOL.

BTW, McCain represents the last chance for the country to have a Vietnam War vet as president.

I doubt there could be any others after the 2008 election.

Middle Class Guy said...

AJ Lynch said...
BTW, McCain represents the last chance for the country to have a Vietnam War vet as president.


Oh, I don't know about that. McCain represents the upper age of the VN vets. There are many in their late fifties- early sixties who could still run.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Yeah, Dole, from WWII, ran in '96, after all.

EnigmatiCore said...

I guess it isn't 100% certain, but it sure looks like it will be Obama against McCain.

Wake me in 8 months so I can make up my mind.

caplight said...

The sense of the crowd energy at least on the tube between the Hillary and the Obama speeches tonight was significant. She's going down. I heard her say, "I'm tested and I'm ready," that's exactly what Bob Dole used to say during the 1996 election cycle. It just sounds so flat. So needy. So entitled. I'm finding it painful to watch her.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Her corruption would be worse for the country than Obama's inexperience."

I don't agree here. We've survived corrupt Presidents before.

The incompetence of the Carter administration, however, damn near killed us.

That's each party's goal from here on out. Convince the public that Obama is another Carter (for the Republicans) and convince the public that either he isn't another Carter or that Carter wasn't as bad as those old farts remember.

He strikes me as just as inexperienced as Carter, but a lot smarter and more savvy.

If I decide it is safe to vote Obama, I probably will. If I decide it's not worth the risk, then the milquetoast McCain curmudgeon will be fine.

JohnAnnArbor said...

I heard her say, "I'm tested and I'm ready," that's exactly what Bob Dole used to say during the 1996 election cycle.

Thing is, after she loses, I can't imagine her having any sense of humor about the loss, like Dole did.

Middle Class Guy said...

JohnAnnArbor said...
Thing is, after she loses, I can't imagine her having any sense of humor about the loss, like Dole did.



You mean she won't be doing Viagra commercials?

Keating5 said...

"Keating" from the Keating 5 actually has endorsed Mccain and was on Hardball tonight.

So both Hilary and Mccain has a member of the Keating 5 supporting them!

Yea!!!

Alright! Let's hear it for the Keating 5!!!

Sloanasaurus said...

It's nice to know that Obama showed up to vote against all of the FISA legislation that allows us to listen to terrorists in Pakistan.

Unbelievable.

Middle Class Guy said...

fstopfitzgerald said...
Are you actually trying to be stupid?



I'm stupid? You are the one who does not understand the English language and cannot read. It must be due to your inferior education in a one hole outhouse.

You were banned from here, yet I guess you cannot not read or you are just a plain, ordinary idiot.

In any case, once your enemy, the Domino Players Conspiracy take over, you will be executed and we will have no more of your nonsense. Viva the Dominoes!

mdix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fstopfitzgerald said...

EnigmatiCore said...

I don't agree here. We've survived corrupt Presidents before.

The incompetence of the Carter administration, however, damn near killed us.


Yes. That am big truth concensus on Bizarro World.

JohnTaylor88 said...

Of course Obama is divine. We all are.

Revenant said...

I don't agree here. We've survived corrupt Presidents before. The incompetence of the Carter administration, however, damn near killed us.

Obama is inexperienced. Inexperience and incompetence aren't the same thing.

Hillary Clinton completely bungled the one executive position she was given during the Clinton Administration, i.e. the management of health care "reform". She did a completely incompetent job of managing people, directing resources, and handling PR. Mind you, I'm GLAD she screwed that particular job up -- but the fact remains that she screwed it up. The choice between Clinton and Obama isn't between the corrupt leader and the incompetent one -- it is between the corrupt leader with a history of bad leadership, and an unknown quantity.

If there is a reason to prefer Clinton to Obama as a President, it is that Clinton has no deeply-held beliefs that she is unwilling to sell out. Obama might. So while we can be pretty certain that Clinton can be trusted to do the right thing for selfish reasons, Obama might prefer to do the wrong thing for ideological reasons.

rcocean said...

The Obama speech ends, and MSNBC takes us to John McCain's speech, already in progress. I think he sounds great and don't really understand why people say he's a bad speaker. He's got real passion and sounds like he means it (and then some).

McCain's not a BAD speaker,he's simply OK at best. I found the contrast between him and Obama shocking. Obama electrified me while McCain struck me as tired, boring and very, very old.

This despite the fact that I'm a conservative and Obama was simply uttering platitudes.

rcocean said...

But he is a war hero. Did anyone know that?

Jackie said...

I wrote about going to the Obama thing here, although I'm not sure if it's the kind of write-up you were looking for. My pictures are also from the third-tier balcony, although I hope to upload them tomorrow.

Iapetus said...

dbp said, "It looks as if the commenters would rather have Senator Clinton as President than Senator Obama. Go figure...As for myself, I am indifferent."

There is an alternative way to think about this in decision theory which may make it easier for people to think about this issue if none of the candidates on either side seem especially attractive, and that is to look for the outcome that minimizes your regret. If you define Regret=1-Value of Victory, then the result is, of course, exactly the same as you wrote. You can play around with the numbers, but for me the outcome is generally the same as what you found.

Cedarford said...

Spirit of Obama: HAVE YOU SEEN THE LIGHT?

Fen: YES! YES! JESUS H. TAP-DANCING CHRIST... I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

Paralyzed children in Richmond are reported to have regained feeling in their legs after touching Obama's sleeve.

Little forest creatures peer timidly from the forest edge at Obama rallies, as eager to lick his palm as the birds of Hawaii and Muslim children in Indonesia and Kenya did...

Hillary invokes her own miracles.

Purportedly, everywhere where Hillary sleeps on the campaign trail, the bedbugs die off. The "Hillary Slept Here!!" signs are not put out for Democrat feminists - they are intended for savvy travellers eager for a suite that Hillary makes vermin-free.

And she has gotten many young girls hooked on "a grim, remorseless and ardent journey to get power". Over stupid boys and silly girls lacking purpose, for their own good, and the children of tomorrow.

Keating5 said...

Yes, I agree there was a complete contrast between the Obama rally and Mccain speech but we are at war people???? And there will be more wars.

And John Mccain knows nothing about the economy. But that isn't what is important in America.

What is important is that we elect the oldest, more boring, least inspirational presidential candidate since Bob Dole-and it will help.

John Mccain for president. Obama is a muslim.

Keating5 said...

Obama has studied in a madrassa and is a crack dealer and is 1/2 white/1/h/2 nig-American come to your senses.

John Mccain for president.

Eli Blake said...

Revenant:

Obama is inexperienced.

Oh. You mean because he was a little known lawyer who if he is elected President will have only served four years in Federal office (the Senate) before becoming President.

Of course, there was one other little known lawyer from Illinois, who also served just four years in Federal office (Congress) before becoming President, too.

But you're right. Probably needed more experience before handling the Commander in Chief job.

Besides, he had a vaguely Semitic sounding name, 'Abraham.' Suspicious, very suspicious.

Keating5 said...

Osama Bin Hussein is a muslim who is a crack dealer and has illegimate children.

vote for mccain!!!

Keating5 said...

Osama Bin Hussein doesn't like women and prays and put his hand on the koran when he went to the senate.

Vote for Mccaine.

Fen said...

Who would have thought our new Hillary Trolls [waves to Keating5] would be so unsophisticated and transparent in their attacks?

[Dons Mask]

"McCain dines on the belly of virgins tied to a satanic sacrificial alter. Vote Hillary!"

Greg in Madtown said...

What a night! I can't believe more of this thread isn't devoted to the experience those of us at the Kohl center shared. Could it be that all of us who were there were, like me, unable to stop talking about it with friends and strangers afterwards? It was awesome to be there as the competition transformed into the general election fight. And, as for Obama? I've been involved in Democratic primary politics since 1992. This time is different. Really. This doesn't feel like a Democrat/Republican thing. Even my Republican uncle in Virginia said "it's about being an American," as he voted for Obama.

Revenant said...

Of course, there was one other little known lawyer from Illinois, who also served just four years in Federal office (Congress) before becoming President, too.

Good point. Experience is completely unnecessary in a President. Heck, we should just go ahead and lower the minimum age to 18 -- it is unfair to restrict a job with no real experience requirements to middle-aged and elderly people.

Hint: when the only example you can think of -- of an inexperienced candidate doing a good job as President -- was over 140 years ago, try using your brain and considering the idea that maybe, just maybe, experience matters. That it might, just maybe, be a good idea for the most powerful executive in the entire world to actually have served in an executive capacity before.

rhhardin said...

but nevertheless, let's keep our wits about us: It was within the range of human capacity.

It's MSNBC covers the Beatles all over again.

Guys are baffled and stare.

Mr. Forward said...

rcocean said...
"But he is a war hero. Did anyone know that?"

I take it you're not?

MadisonMan said...

The front page of the State Journal is interesting this morning. The top headline is about a GM offer for Janesville workers (the economy). The left side (and picture) is about the surge and the threat posed by Iran. The 2-column article on the right is Obama (with a picture below the fold).

There's the issues right on the front page! (The Potomac Primary is nowhere on the front page)

Fen said...

But he is a war hero. Did anyone know that?

I wouldn't say he's a war hero. I respect him for what he had to endure as a POW, but its not like he charged a machine-gun nest to save his platoon.

Same goes for that pilot [error] that was shot down over Bosnia, and the female soldier who was captured in Iraq because she & her crew didn't properly PMCS their weapons.

The Drill SGT said...

I wouldn't say he's a war hero. I respect him for what he had to endure as a POW, but its not like he charged a machine-gun nest to save his platoon.

Fen,

I was in the gorund forces like you, so I have the same general distain for "flyboys", etc. However, I think you should agree that it he did a bit more than your average GI. a couple of additional examples:

- I think you'd agree that doing night carrier landings after combat strikes isn't for the faint hearted. We both know that even in peacetime that the chance of death for a Naval aviator is/was very high over a 20 year career.

- Flying A-4 missions "downtown" over Hanoi wasn't exactly the same as cruising over Kuwait in an F15 in GWI.

- Then there was the Forrestal fire. McCain was suited up in an A-4 sitting there on the deck waiting takeoff when an F-4 behind him launched a 4.5" rocket that struck his plane, igniting the fuel drop tanks and releasing several 1,000lb bombs onto the deck. With the deck covered in flaming fuel and the bombs cooking off (ultimately 8 thousand pounders went off on the deck amidst 20-30 planes), McCain unhooked himself, climbed out of the cockpit, jumped up on the nose of his A-4, walked out on the refueling probe and jumped into the flames to the deck and rolled out into the clear where he had to be extinguished. After the fires were put out, (100+ dead) and the ship returned to port, McCain volunteered to switch squadrons and return to the war rather than wait with his old squadron till the Forrestal was repaired. (that is some amazing video if you ever see it.)

McCain did his share and more.

Fen said...

general distain for "flyboys"

Oh I don't. Our unit was FEBA recon [LAR BN], so we worked alot with FACs. Calling in live air is a rush!

Agree with you on night carrier landings. Toughest part of flying, from what I've been told, is trying to land in the dark on a deck thats pitching back and forth in storm winds. We lost a pilot in peacetime [former S-3 FAC] due to that.

You're other points are valid too. Esp his action in the Forrestal fire. I wasn't aware of that - definitely heroic, so I guess I need to print this out and eat my own words. Thanks for the correction.

McCain did his share and more.

Yah, I guess I'm just weary of seeing "Hero" trotted out when somone is just doing their job.

Fen said...

[crunch]

mmmm... tasty but could use some salt and salsa.

The Drill SGT said...

Fen

Fire Video

This video will bring tears to your eyes. McCain's A-4 was the one the Chief ws heding for with the PZP extinguisher. You'll not that the first bomb goes off very fast. They were supposed to be safe for 30 minutes in the flames, but apparently they were WWII bombs with old CompB and one may have split open when it fell.

And of course the Japanese, lost 4 carriers at Midway with less damage done to them than 8 thousand pounders going off in the middle of 20 armed planes.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But you're right. Probably needed more experience before handling the Commander in Chief job. Besides, he had a vaguely Semitic sounding name, 'Abraham.' Suspicious, very suspicious

Actually Eli, Lincoln's performance as Commander in Chief was lackluster at best. While Jefferson Davis was lucky with Lee, Lincoln changed the leadership of the Army of the Potomac as often as he changed his underwear. A pretty good argument could be made that his piss poor reliance on piss poor commanders did nothing more than lengthen the war. Had Kerney, Reynolds or Grant been given command from jump street, Richmond would have been occupied by 1862.

Ben (The Tiger) said...

Prediction: Althouse votes for McCain in November.

The Drill SGT said...

Hoosier...

Or Bobby Lee. Lincoln promoted him to Colonel in Mar 1861 and wanted to promote to MG 3 weeks later, but he resigned and returned to Virginia.

Original Mike said...

Rev said: "...it might, just maybe, be a good idea for the most powerful executive in the entire world to actually have served in an executive capacity before."

You're right, of course, Rev. But on the other hand, at the end of the day, you will be voting for Obama.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier...

Or Bobby Lee. Lincoln promoted him to Colonel in Mar 1861 and wanted to promote to MG 3 weeks later, but he resigned and returned to Virginia.


Well Lee wasn't going to fight for the Union regardless. His loyalty was greater for Virginia than it was for the US. Loyalty to the state was much greater, particularly in the South than to the country as a whole which is very difficult for contempoary Americans to understand.

SGT Ted said...

A pretty good argument could be made that his piss poor reliance on piss poor commanders did nothing more than lengthen the war.

Actually, it's pretty much a given that his first few Commanders were incompetents, based on the stinging defeats the CSA inflicted on the Union Army with inferior numbers and equipment. The Civil War was a quagmire according to modern leftist terms and standards until Grant took command.

former law student said...

it might, just maybe, be a good idea for the most powerful executive in the entire world to actually have served in an executive capacity before.

Agree 100%; that's why I voted for Mitt. All these senators do is debate. McCain's wife runs the beer business, and Hillary never managed anything bigger than the Travel Office.

Grant failed in business, could not make a living farming, couldn't handle being a bill collector, and finally went to work selling harnesses for his younger brother. All he could do was recruit and train and lead an army that could defeat the enemy.

Fen said...

I'm not a civil war buff, the only book I read on it was A Stillness at Appomattox, but it struck me that the north would have lost if not for a handful of generals from the Midwest. Does that ring true?

Revenant said...

You're right, of course, Rev. But on the other hand, at the end of the day, you will be voting for Obama.

Well, no, at the end of the day I'll probably stay home and read a book.

Original Mike said...

I know, Rev. It's the same thing. ;-)