April 17, 2008

The Pope sends Rush Limbaugh into ecstasy about... American exceptionalism.

Did you listen to Rush Limbaugh enthusing about the Pope yesterday? It was really quite bizarre.
The Battle Hymn of the Republic was sung by the US Army Chorus, and you have to hear this, particularly if you haven't had a chance to have your TV on today or your radio, and you didn't hear this. You have to hear it and you have to imagine a crystal-blue sky, a crisp day in Washington, the pope and the president on the reviewing stand with others, the camera occasionally focusing on the US Army Chorus. You realize, this is at the White House, and a song written in tribute to God is being played at the White House. In this country there has been such an effort, and it has been way too successful, to remove God from anything public. Not only was God present, but the largest White House welcoming ceremony ever participated in a ceremony thanking God and respecting God and offering up a tribute to God, and you just have to hear this. It runs about 4:47. It's infectious, so well done. The US Army Chorus, The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

(playing of The Battle Hymn of the Republic)

That is just beautiful. I'm at a loss for words to describe the impact that had on me, and I was not even paying close attention. I was looking at the computer and I had the TVs on, which are to my left when I'm sitting at the computer. I heard this start, and I told Cookie up in New York, "Get me the song. I want the song as part of the audio sound bites." She said, "You can hear it?" I said, "I can always hear God's music."
So, now, wait. Did Rush have a religious experience, or was he just delighted by the thought of those peoplethose liberals — having conniptions about the intermingling of religion and government?
THE PRESIDENT: In a world where some treat life as something to be debased and discarded, we need your message that all human life is sacred and that each of us is willed, each of us is loved. And your message that each of us is willed, each of us is loved, and each of us is necessary. In a world where some no longer believe that we can distinguish between simple right and wrong, we need your message to reject this dictatorship of relativism and embrace a culture of justice and truth.

RUSH: This is just fabulous. This is exactly what this country needs at this time. It took the arrival of Pope Benedict XVI to bring forth a discussion -- a discussion I have been so desirous that happen at the highest levels of our elected leadership, a discussion of American exceptionalism.
Of course, the Pope is not bringing a message of American exceptionalism. So does he mean that the ceremony for the Pope gave President Bush a platform to proclaim American exceptionalism? But you see Bush's words. They aren't about American exceptionalism. They are about universal values, which is precisely appropriate for the occasion — as the proclamation of American exceptionalism would not be.

I've never seen a more vivid example of Rush Limbaugh hearing what he wants to hear.

You can hear it? I can always hear God's music. If by God, you mean the voices in your own head.

He goes on:
Once again, as you know, folks, I have been begging, I have been clamoring, I have been asking, "Where is the discussion in this country of American exceptionalism? Where is it in this presidential campaign?" It's nowhere to be found. You won't find it. It took the arrival of Pope Benedict XVI for a discussion and statement of American exceptionalism to be made.

POPE BENEDICT: From the dawn of the republic, America's quest for freedom has been guided by the conviction that the principles governing political and social life are intimately linked to a moral order based on the dominion of God the Creator. The framers of this nation's founding documents drew upon this conviction when they proclaimed the self-evident truth that all men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights grounded in the laws of nature and of nature's God.
Is that American exceptionalism? It seems to me the Pope is speaking of the universal "dominion of God" and the way America's founders acknowledged it. Not that they were special, but that they, like everyone who ever lived and who ever will live is subject to God's moral order.

Limbaugh plays another Pope clip: "As the nation faces increasingly complex political and ethical issues of our time, I'm confident that the American people will find in their religious beliefs a precious source of insight and an inspiration to pursue reasoned, responsible and respectful dialogue in the effort to build a more human and free society." Really, that is nothing but a generic statement that religion is good and people should be religious and good.

Now, here's Rush, in that special slightly bonkers manner of his that listeners find either so endearing or so infuriating:
And he continued on, and he ended it by saying God bless America. He's a big fan of America, Joseph Ratzinger is his prepapal name. He's from Germany, as you can tell. But it was just uplifting to me. I take this stuff personally. I love this country. I love anybody else who loves this country, and I don't care who it is that requires or necessitates or creates this discussion, gets it started, of the concept of American exceptionalism, whether it's the pope or whether it's somebody else. But I really wish that some of our own elected officials in power, leadership positions, would have the guts to speak of it in that context rather than wringing our hands and whining and moaning about how hard we have it and how horrible things are and how unfair life is and all the other things that people have become comfortable whining about. Thanks to the pope and the president today for this remarkable, remarkable ceremony at the White House.
He's a big fan of America, you know, this Pope, this Joseph Ratzinger. And check out that accent. German! He's from Germany! Wow! I love anybody who loves this country!

130 comments:

Bob said...

Your elitism is showing. You need someone to take you shooting and then go buy a Bible, something in oxblood calfskin maybe, then go do some shots and beer.

rhhardin said...

Right, Rush sucks when he goes off on morality. He loses his bigger-than-life self-deprecating persona and goes la-la and non-self-deprecating.

It usually lasts two weeks and then he's listenable again.

He's deaf and can't hear music, so is imagining it by the rhythm.

The actual performance of the Battle Hymn of the Republic sucked. There are much, much better arrangements.

Imus had the proper Pope line this morning, identifying him from the video as apparently Bush's mother.

Fatmouse said...

Well, given that the US is the most religious industrial country in the world and that I hear that the pope is sort of big on religion, it wouldn't be a huge leap to think that he's a fan of America and our antics.

Oh, and the moderate Althouse listens to eeevil hate-monger Rush? Oh my, the Village Voice is going to push your "EVIL" rating up ten points.

I suppose you could say you were just doing it for "research," like Pete Townshend and the... you know.

peter hoh said...

When Rush says, "some of our own elected officials in power, leadership positions," I assume that he is referring to the President.

Now if only the Pope were to have the chutzpah to speak about the Church's very clear teachings about the immorality of torture.

peter hoh said...

Fatmouse, listening to Rush doesn't prove anything. I listen to Rush on occasion, and I don't think any of the regulars here would consider me a conservative. Nothing is more fun than listening to "conservative" blowhards. It's like performance art.

Nichevo said...

Ann, you'll always be kawaii and I'll still want to bed you, but I'm afraid that if we keep disagreeing, you won't love me anymore. What part of:

POPE BENEDICT: From the dawn of the republic, America's quest for freedom has been guided by the conviction that the principles governing political and social life are intimately linked to a moral order based on the dominion of God the Creator. The framers of this nation's founding documents drew upon this conviction when they proclaimed the self-evident truth that all men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights grounded in the laws of nature and of nature's God.

Is that American exceptionalism? It seems to me the Pope is speaking of the universal "dominion of God" and the way America's founders acknowledged it. Not that they were special, but that they, like everyone who ever lived and who ever will live is subject to God's moral order.


confuses you?

Do you see evidence that any "... conviction that the principles ... are intimately linked to ... God the Creator" persists in Europe or any of the other leading countries today? Or that they were founded thus, except inasmuch as the divine right of kings was leveraged in ROW to legitimize elite exploitation of their respective nations?

Or is that widely (esp. at the highest levels) thought to be le boob-bait for les suckers over there?

Think Pope Palpatine knows that? I do. Rush sees that. Bush sees that.

Sure, Rush is kvelling; worse, he's hamming, which I despise almost as much as the raucous-black-church deal. Not my style at all.

But your humorless legalistic literalism (constructionism?) is not registering the dog-whistle/penumbras and emanations of the Pope's speech. The fact that others take away their own interpretations and reflections on his remarks should not harsh your mellow so. I'm sure a woman of your intelligence understand that the Pope may be speaking on multiple levels.

But if you find it clearer, understand that Rush is saying that it took this papal visit to light a fire under the President's ass. Some feel that GWB has been too reticent to promote his beliefs, such as stated here.

Bush's message is universalist, if you like - China and Iraq should have (various flavors of human rights) too, they're not wogs. Maybe the American exceptionalism, here, is that unlike the rest of the G8, we seem to believe and even advocate this.

As for a "generic statement" by the Pope, if you are on Rush's train of thought, you might question whether or not Ratzinger can sell that line just anywhere.

The bonkers bit, I can hardly quibble over. But I do wonder if you are looking for a fight with Rush. You yourself on your own blog are not indifferent to atmospherics, to a pretty spring day in Brooklyn, are you?

Maybe just as opposites attract, you are more like Rush (or the reverse) than you know? I would hate to think, let alone say, that you are looking for some 'moderate Dem' street cred by bashing the EIB pinata. But it does seem like you are on the prod.

rhhardin said...

Rush is excellent background when you're doing any work on anything. The show archives are a good reason to subscribe to his site, so you can add that audio any time to this or that activity, or just for falling asleep.

The trouble with the morality kicks he goes on is that if you switch to paying attention from time to time, you're not rewarded with anything amusing.

rhhardin said...

I'm sure a woman of your intelligence understand that the Pope may be speaking on multiple levels.

Now this, people, is an ad hominem argument.

Ruth Anne Adams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nichevo said...

rhh, tchaahh! Ad feminem, if anything. Curiously I always associated ad homs with negative attacks. This could if anything be described as a pander, but for that of course my motives are clear.

As for Rush's trips, that's why God made the off switch....or, if the off switch on your GE Spacemaker kitchen radio is flukey, the volume knob.

peter hoh said...

Ruth Anne, I always figured that money was Rush's religion.

Ruth Anne Adams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

For the past 40-50 years, the default position for all foriegn leaders, pundits, and celebrities is anti-American.

As a result, Rush's gush is understandable, if somewhat desperate. It was a bit too Sally Fields for my taste (you like me you really like me), but for a nation that is more often treated like the homely girl at a junior high dance, hearing a venerated leader praise you is not at all unpleasant, even though it's more like dancing with the principal than with the football star.

You take what you can get in this world.

TMink said...

Many of us who are Christians cannot help but notice the growing antipathy to outright hostility toward our spirituality. Much of it comes from our capitol. It was not always thus. There was a time when our capitol promoted, in a non-sectarian and at most quasi-spiritual manner, Godly morality. It included more than a smattering of heartfelt patriotism.

No more.

Except for yesterday, and some of us enjoyed it. Immensely. I bet Rush had added enjoyment from the irony that the moral, spiritual, patriotic lovefest came from DC.

I was just pleased that we were still capable of it.

Trey

SGT Ted said...

Given the kleptocrats and thugocracies that staff the UN "human rights" commission, European opposition to basic human rights, such as free speech and freedom of conscience, I'd say that American Exceptionism is alive and well and appropriately named.

MadisonMan said...

There was a time when our capitol promoted, in a non-sectarian and at most quasi-spiritual manner, Godly morality.

Then some politician realized: Hey! I can USE my religion to GET VOTES! It's been downhill from there.

A big problem with religion and politicians is that (at least my interpretation of my) religion promotes humility, not hubris. When was the last time you saw a politician that didn't ooze excess hubris?

There are times when heartfelt feelings of faith leak out -- those I think are especially nice to see from politicians. Yesterday might have been one of those times (I've not seen the ceremony).

rhhardin said...

rhh, tchaahh! Ad feminem, if anything.

Classically, an ad hominem argument is a flattering one, appealing to the interests or conceits of your opponent.

Nice example here

George said...

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is a song meant to strike terror in the hearts of our enemies while inspiring us to march to possible deaths and victory.

Lyricist Julia Howe's abolitionist husband was one of John Brown's secret financial supporters. The music is the popular 1860 song "John Brown's Body."

The "He" referred to in the lyrics is more often John Brown than Jesus. For example, consider "He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword." Very jihadi and apocalpytic.

The last stanza has alternate lyrics: "As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free" or "As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free." The former version was sung at the National Cathedral service following 9/11.

The walrus in the third stanza is the Norwegian symbol of death.

Nichevo said...

I thought an ad hom was, He's a commie/ghey/Dodgers fan/Midwesterner, so his views on astronomy/economy/submarine hunter-killer tactics/the DH cannot be relied upon.

Pogo said...

I am the walrus.

Goo goo ga joob.

rhhardin said...

Every now and then, you hear him lay down the braggadocio and be himself.

But for entertainment value, he'd better keep up what's entertaining, which includes a prankster instinct that's actually him too.

Which is self-deprecating humor.

He could do self-deprecating humor about abortion and the awful programming he sometimes does, if he realized that the audience was not in fact following him, which I think he does not exactly realize.

Rush doing his personal self in a self-deprecating way that's entertaining without failing to be endearing turns up in his extended calls with women now and then.

I'll see if I can find a couple in my vast archive...

Women objecting to the language testicle lockbox

Marriage counselor listener

AJ Lynch said...

Ditto to what Ruth Ann said.

I happened to be listening yesterday on the way to the bank and heard the U.S. Army band playing the Battle Hymn Of The Republic. I was proud and touched by the song and music.

There was nothing phony in it by Rush. Just genuine heartfelt love of country.

Ann Althouse said...

Walrus? What walrus? Has Rush been handing out drugs?

rhhardin said...

There was nothing phony in it

Agreed, but that's not the problem. If you're not following along in critical agreement, you're lost as entertained audience.

Rush turns into Air America.

john said...

George,

I didn't know that (about the John Brown link with Julia Howe's husband). Thanks for sharing.

Walrus was a delicacy occasionally served to Union forces which they would cook in their watchfires of a hundred circling camps. At least that's the only way it makes sense.

rhhardin said...

The trouble with the Pope is Nietzsche's observation that God is dead, which means that God no longer works for us. It's a dead language except for ceremonies, which are seen as ceremonies only.

So Imus is right saying that the Pope looks like Bush's mother. The ceremony is ridiculous, the fat man falls down and everybody laughs.

MadisonMan said...

I prefer Just before the Battle Mother and Tenting Tonight on the old Campground as far as Civil War songs go. BHotR seems unchristian to me -- even though it's in the Hymnal at Church!

Nichevo said...

"God is dead." -- Nietzsche



"Nietzsche is dead." -- God

I don't know that the first is as indubitably true as the second. Do you? (What do I care what a German says, alive or dead? Get back to me in the year 2933.)

Nietzsche also said, "Thou goest to woman? Do not forget thy whip!" That pansy.

Nichevo said...

mad, if you had some religion, maybe you would understand it better. What were you raised? I assume you were raised something?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You can hear it? I can always hear God's music. If by God, you mean the voices in your own head.

I don't listen to Limbaugh so I have no comment on his comments, except that I believe that America is exceptional and unique in the history of countries and governments.

However, I do think you can hear God's music if you listen. I hear it every morning in the sounds of the Quail and sparrows that come to eat at the feeder outside the window that I'm sitting at now. I hear it in the sound of the bees busily buzzing at the blossoms on the wild plum trees off of the deck creating fruit that we and the raccoons can enjoy later I hear it in the burbling sound of a babies innocent laughter. The coyotes yipping at night. It may be that music isn't so pretty to the goose or lamb that is going to die, but it is part of the symphony. I also hear it in the absolute silence at night when looking at the countless stars at night in the black black sky. (No background ambient light here to blind us)

God's music and beauty is everywhere if you choose to listen and look. You don't have to be formally religious or belong to any sect to hear it.(Preaching over)

That being said. The Battle Hymn of the Republic has always given me a thrill. The relentless marching rhythm building to a crescendo. It is a real shame that young people aren't exposed to the song and that it isn't put into the context of history just because it contains the word GOD and has some religious themes.

Freder Frederson said...

It may be that music isn't so pretty to the goose or lamb that is going to die

Do you still hear the lambs screaming Clarise?

That Rush is so impressed with the morality of the Catholic Church and seems to think that the Pope is impressed with the morality of the U.S. just goes to show how seriously all that Hillbilly Heroin addled his brain.

That tmink thinks that Rush, with his Viagra laden trips to sex tourism destinations and daliances with illegal prescription drugs really cares much about either morality or spirtualism, other than as a cudgel to beat the evil liberals, demonstrates that he must have some pretty good drugs too.

rcocean said...

Rush: Just another bitter, economically deprived conservative clinging to God and patriotism.

Its just sad.

MadisonMan said...

DBQueen: They're not exposed to it? They're not singing Glory glory Hallelujah, Teacher hit me with a ruler, Met her in the attic with a loaded automatic His truth is marching on! ? A shame!

Well, I guess students couldn't sing those words in school anymore.

nichevo: Episcopalian. BHofR just has an angry vibe (esp. that first verse!), it seems to me, and Christianity and anger don't go together in my book.

Freeman Hunt said...

Christianity and anger don't go together in my book

I don't know. Jesus seems pretty hacked off sometimes. And then there's the Old Testament...

Nichevo said...

I saw Metropolis about eight times and each time the Freder kid looks more and more like a little rat-clawed cocksucker, like that traitor coward Upham in Saving Private Ryan. You remind me of both of them. I liked the father better. Now HE was an operator.

Listen, cocksucker, why don't you stop tagging Rush with this vile Viagra-to-Phuket-junket slander? Unless you have proof I never heard of, it's as vicious and puerile as saying that Hillary is a dyke rapist/coke-dealer-enabler or that Obama is a Muslim bomber-enabler.

Or, of course, that you are a twinkle-toed communistic cocksucker scrabbling desperately for the pen to sign his own death warrant.

If you do have and present proof here, of course, I will refrain from slapping the bitch out of you should we ever meet. That or an apology & retraction (since I'm quite confident you can't prove it) will do. You fuck.

Speaking of hypocrisy, you fucking fuck, if you've never done an illegal drug, I'll buy a hat and eat it, you fucking hypocritical cudgeler.

Sorry, Ann.

PS Oh and Fredo, learn to fucking spell Agent Clarice Starling's name right, whyncha? Putting on airs, sheesh.

Freder Frederson said...

Listen, cocksucker, why don't you stop tagging Rush with this vile Viagra-to-Phuket-junket slander?

It was actually Viagra to the Dominican Republic, and it is a matter of public record.

Nichevo said...

mad: to everything there is a season. a season for spare cheeks, a season for fire and sword. to wimp out in the face of evil is evil too. Did not Jesus use a whip on the bankers in the Temple? Not-nice. Ah, but context, eh?

As Orwell said, when someone comes to drop a bomb on your mother's house there is no response but to go drop two bombs on his mom's house. I'm sorry Orwell never made it to the States; he woulda loved Eliot Ness' Chicago.

Maybe the key is that it be righteous anger? But the notion of righteousness seems to be a joke these days, of course.

Nichevo said...

If it were, Freddy, you'd have provided a link.

Freder Frederson said...

Putting on airs, sheesh.

I didn't realize that being able to quote from The Silence of the Lambs, either the movie or the book, was considered "puuting on airs". I guess Porky's is about as sophisticated as you get.

bill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freder Frederson said...

nichevo,

Not that this isn't well known, but you are being such a little twit and apologist for Rush I thought I would provide you a link.

Verso said...

He's deaf and can't hear music, so is imagining it by the rhythm.

Is he fully deaf again? I know he went deaf, probably due to his years-long habit snorthing dozens or scores of painkillers every day. (By some accounts he was doing 80-100 pills a day.) But I thought he regained some hearing with a coclear implant. Last time I listened to him regularly (in 2006) he talked about listening to the television show 24. He said he had to hold the speakers against his head with the volume turned all the way up.

downtownlad said...

FACT: Ratzinger was a Nazi.

FACT: Rush Limbaugh has nothing but praise for an ex-Nazi

FACT: President Bush has nothing but praise for an ex-Nazi.

When are reporters going to ask Limbaugh and Bush if they "reject and renounce" the Nazi views that Ratzinger had?

downtownlad said...

FACT: Ratzinger was a Nazi.

FACT: Rush Limbaugh has nothing but praise for an ex-Nazi

FACT: President Bush has nothing but praise for an ex-Nazi.

When are reporters going to ask Limbaugh and Bush if they "reject and renounce" the Nazi views that Ratzinger had?

Nichevo said...

Oh, okay, I thought you had some kind of proof of wrongdoing. Am I supposed to be upset about any fact or allegation presented in that link? Because I missed it. Try again.

Or maybe you want to give up on this wild-pill chase (for now, of course) and bone up on your spelling.

titusinatizzy said...

How about the Pope's cute little red shoes?

She loves Prada, I smell a queen.

Nichevo said...

dtl, we already know you're a schmuck, you needn't try so hard to prove it. I thought he spent a few months drafted in as a teenager manning a flak gun. That makes you a Nazi? Got a copy of his Party card?

Man, you leftists like to throw crap around.

titusinatizzy said...

The new pope also tried to keep all of the sexual abuse crap secret when he was in his previous position.

All the outfits and pomp are really gay. It reminds me of a gay pride parade.

downtownlad said...

Absolutely Titus. He's definitely gay.

I wonder where he falls on the Wall Street Journal scale of " homosexuality on a scale of 1 to 10 -- a 1 being just another gay guy and a 10 being a compulsive, predatory sex offender?"

I say it's a 10.

titusinatizzy said...

You know he has a stash of pictures of some of the altar boys naked hanging around.

What about his Gucci sunglasses with the big G on each side-so gay.

downtownlad said...

Fact: Ratzinger was a member of Hitler Youth.

Fact: 20% of German youth in a similar age bracket at that time were NOT members of Hitler Youth.

Funny - the wingnuts go BALLISTIC because Obama eats arugula, but they don't give a damn that the Pope was a member of Hitler Youth. Of all of the cardinals out there, you would have thought the Catholic Church could have picked someone who wasn't a a member of Hitler Youth. But I guess not.

Nichevo said...

dtl,

Absolutely Titus. He's definitely gay.

So to you that's good, right?

Freeman Hunt said...

Ah yes, Anti-Catholicism, one of the few remaining socially acceptable bigotries.

titusinatizzy said...

I am watching the service right now and they all have these delicate little pretty yellow umbrellas-that's gay.

downtownlad said...

Has the Pope ever had sex with a woman? Huh? Has he?

Why not? The only guys I know who haven't had sex with women are all gay.

titusinatizzy said...

I wonder if he has a designer cock ring for his little pope hog.

downtownlad said...

Freeman - Catholics say that gay people are "intrinsically evil".

And you expect gays to respect Catholics? Are you on drugs?

Freeman Hunt said...

Freeman - Catholics say that gay people are "intrinsically evil".

LOL No they don't. Try again.

titusinatizzy said...

Can all those bishops masturbate?

If so, what do they masturbate about?

We need to get the answer to those questions.

Freder Frederson said...

That makes you a Nazi? Got a copy of his Party card?

He was also a member of the Hitler Youth. I would say because of his age and the circumstances of the time, he was blameless. However, by the standards that Pope Benedict has set for Catholic youth, he should have resisted and refused to cooperate with the Nazi regime.

The Pope would hold youth today culpable for acts he claims he was not culpable for. I can see why Rush likes him so much, he is a hypocrite too.

Nichevo said...

downtownlad said...

Fact: Ratzinger was a member of Hitler Youth.

Fact: 20% of German youth in a similar age bracket at that time were NOT members of Hitler Youth.

Funny - the wingnuts go BALLISTIC because Obama eats arugula, but they don't give a damn that the Pope was a member of Hitler Youth. Of all of the cardinals out there, you would have thought the Catholic Church could have picked someone who wasn't a a member of Hitler Youth. But I guess not.


Fact: HY /= Nazi

Fact: 20% of his cohort not HY, means 80% were. So, how do you like George Soros?

Fact: I'm not Catholic or even Christian and he's not my Pope.

Fact: Not big on arugula but he's welcome to it.

Fact: in some areas you have enough trouble getting lettuce let alone arugula (Vermont 1995 comes to mind).

Fact: I'm not upset, I am amused and pleased that O is so out of touch, as it will harm him with voters.

titusinatizzy said...

Were the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence at the mass today.

I love the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence-I love the name.

Freeman Hunt said...

For DTL. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

downtownlad said...

Here's the quote from Ratzinger himself.

"Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."

And there you have it from the wingnuts - if you eat arugula - you are disqualified from being President. Do the wingnuts realize how freaking provincial they sound?

titusinatizzy said...

"The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible"

That's an understatement. You can't swing a cat in my neighborhood without hitting a mo. The place is crawling with them.

titusinatizzy said...

I think the woman, who did my taxes, and has a beard is a mo.

downtownlad said...

Freeman Hunt represents an intrinsic moral evil and he is objectively disordered. I also think it is imperative that he never have sex. Never ever. But even if he refrains from sex, he's still instrically evil and objectively disordered.

titusinatizzy said...

I love the pope's Septor-is that what is called?

It is fierce. I am totally getting one.

rhhardin said...

Is he fully deaf again?

No, he can hear fine with his implant, just not pitch.

One ear he left deaf against the possibility of a better procedure in the future.

titusinatizzy said...

Uh Oh-The pope almost just lost his big crown.

That crown is also fierce.

I want to wear one of those while I am doing anal with another guy.

downtownlad said...

I'm still waiting for Ann to blog about arugula. But I think she's afraid of offending her buddies. I strongly suspect Ann eats arugula - and I'm pretty sure she's posted photos on here that would prove that.

Roger J. said...

It's right there in the constitution. Qualifications for president: native born, at least 35 and not eat arugula.

Freder Frederson said...

Freeman Hunt represents an intrinsic moral evil and he is objectively disordered.

I think you need to take a gander at Freeman's picture.

titusinatizzy said...

Did Bernard Law come on the trip?

If the pope was a President of a daycare center and all that pedolphia happened he would be in jail.

When are we going to have a posting about the polygamy prairie women?

Freeman Hunt said...

Here's the quote from Ratzinger himself.

"Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."


Yes, that is exactly what the Catechism says. Nowhere does that say that gay people are evil. The Church believes that homosexual acts are sins and, like all other sins, evil. That's all. Or did you expect the Church to redefine sin to suit you?

Also, I am not a man.

titusinatizzy said...

Is goat cheese ok to eat?

How about Paki cheese from the Paki hog?

titusinatizzy said...

That little pope is moving through the crowd.

He is a little guy with cute red shoes.

I wonder if that Septor has ever been up an Altar Boy's bum.

titusinatizzy said...

How about cheese curds? Is it ok to eat cheese curds?

downtownlad said...

That picture makes you look like a man. Truth.

Fact: The Catholic Church has deemed gay people to be "objectively disordered" even if they are celibate their entire lives. So even if they never "sin", they are still objectively disordered and predisposed towards objective moral EVIL.

Do I expect the Catholic Church to change their views? No I don't.

But I have a question for you. Do you really think gay people should show respect for this antiquated, bigoted religion that treats gays with such contempt?

Respect is a two way street.

rhhardin said...

Respect is a two way street

Metaphor drives its point home on a two-way street, Goffman said somewhere.

Nichevo said...

dtl-

Do you really think gay people should show respect for this antiquated, bigoted religion that treats gays with such contempt?

Michelangelo did.

Respect is a two way street.

Like respect for those who dissent from your POV? I didn't lose my virginity till college - I was 17 - so was I gay till then? You will say or do anything to harm those who get in your way.

You are a predator. You have no notion of the social contract.

titus - try "scepter."

Dust Bunny Queen said...

the wingnuts go BALLISTIC because Obama eats arugula, but they don't give a damn that the Pope was a member of Hitler Youth. Of all of the cardinals out there, you would have thought the Catholic Church could have picked someone who wasn't a a member of Hitler Youth. But I guess not

First of all, the Pope isn't up for popular election. The criterion for choosing the spiritual leader of the Catholic Church, I would assume, would also include the spiritual growth of the person over the years and the ability to have compassion for humanity. Compassion doesn't mean that we have to accept or condone every sin or foible.

The Pope was briefly in the Hitler Youth. This something that was almost mandatory if you wanted to get along economically in Nazi Germany at the time and your parents would encouraged it to show loyalty to Der Fuehrer and to keep you and your family from becoming crematorium fodder. Don't tell me this isn't true as I have a relative who was a child in Germany at that time and clearly remembers the Hitler Youth among other things.

Trying to hang a Nazi label on a person who was a child at the time and under the control of adults, is specious and a red herring.

downtownlad said...

The Catholic Church didn't call gays intrinsically evil and objectively disordered until centuries after Michaelangelo died, so try again.

Catholocism is a gutter religion.

downtownlad said...

"Trying to hang a Nazi label on a person who was a child at the time and under the control of adults, is specious and a red herring."

As opposed to hanging the Muslim label on Obama, because his middle name is Hussein.

As opposed to hanging the elitist label on Obama, because he ordered orange juice at a diner.

As opposed to hanging the Communist label on Obama, because the father he never knew wrote an article about socialism in Kenya in 1965.

The Pope has declared war on gay people and I'm going to have fun throwing dirt back in his face. He's so quick to judge me, then I'll have no problem judging him. He's just some dude who happens to lead one of the world's biggest cults, but that doesn't make him worthy of any special respect.

I have no problem dissing David Koresh either.

Freder Frederson said...

Trying to hang a Nazi label on a person who was a child at the time and under the control of adults, is specious and a red herring.

Not if by the Pope's own standards and words, such a child in a similar situation would be morally bound to resist in such a situation. The Pope has set a bar for youth that he acknowledges he did not meet, yet he has not apologized for.

ricpic said...

Even when I hate America I love America...just like the liberals.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Not if by the Pope's own standards and words, such a child in a similar situation would be morally bound to resist in such a situation. The Pope has set a bar for youth that he acknowledges he did not meet, yet he has not apologized for.

Document this, please. Otherwise it is just your opinion and interpretation.

As to DTL vitriolic and narrow views. Obama is being judged as an adult and by his actions as an adult. If I think he holds socialist/communistic views, it has nothing to do directly with his father but more about what he says and who he "hangs with" now. If Obama idolizes his father, as would be expected given his confusion over being abandonded and thereby idolizes his father's political leanings, this is and should be a big issue when electing a President of the United States. The world view of that person should be of great interest to the people over the lives of whicho he/she will have significant authority.

The Pope has not declared a war on homosexuals. It is the actions that the church calls a sin, the person who avoids the sin is not hated or at war with the church. Just the opposite the person who denies sin is held in high esteem.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty much a lapsed Catholic, and really don't give a rip about homosexuality, same sex marriage or even arugula. I am not that deeply into Church doctrine. However, making false claims, bigoted statements and telling lies IS a sin in my book. :-)

Freder Frederson said...

If I think he holds socialist/communistic views, it has nothing to do directly with his father but more about what he says and who he "hangs with" now.

Please document this. Otherwise it is just your opinion and interpretation.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

If I think he holds socialist/communistic views, it has nothing to do directly with his father but more about what he says and who he "hangs with" now.

"Please document this. Otherwise it is just your opinion and interpretation."

Can't you read?

I said IF I THINK, which automatically says it is my opinion and interpretation.

You stated that someone else ( the Pope) had done something. "Set a bar" ... where is the documentation for that statement? If you have none, then just admit it is your personal opinion and you made it up.

It's OK to have personal opinions not based on fact. We all do it. It doesn't make your or my personal opinon the truth either. (DTL) It is not OK to attribute opinions to other people without some proof.

TMink said...

Freder wrote "demonstrates that he must have some pretty good drugs too" concerning my comments regarding Rush and patriotism.

Freder, I am currently out of pretty good drugs and have been that way for decades! However, I at one point had a large enough supply and made enough use of them for the occasional synapse misfire to be a bit suspicious as far as that sort of thing goes, so I accept your comment with equanimity and agree that you may be correct about my misreading of Rush. But I must insist that it is not due to any current usage. Really.

And please feel free to call me Trey when you nail me in such a fun manner.

Trey

rcocean said...

Love how Liberals always get upset when you show any patriotism. People pick up on it and its been a reason McGovern, Dukakais, Gore and Kerry have lost.

It reminds me of anti-communism. Liberals would say they weren't pro-communist, but any anti-communist display would bring out the sneers or give them the vapors.

PatCA said...

I also believe in American exceptionalism and am sorry I missed the Pope's speech. I think I would have teared up a little, too, much like Limbaugh.

Anybody have a video link? Or is C-Span going to show something so, heaven forfed, 'jingoistic' as praise to the deity and the nation being offered up on the White House lawn?

titusinatizzy said...

I would like to Don Lemon from CNN.

He is hot and I think he might be gay.

AJ Lynch said...

Titus:

You should run for office. How about Queen of Perpetual Self-Indulgence?

Freder Frederson said...

Love how Liberals always get upset when you show any patriotism.

Huh? What's this thread got to do with showing patriotism? It is a complaint about Rush imputing a completely outrageous interpretation onto the anti-war, pro-social programs, pro-immigrant, anti-torture Pope. I don't know what about the Catholic Church's stance on anything, other than the fact that Rush seemed to elicit such delight that God was so prominent yesterday, that would fit with Rush's lifestyle and beliefs.

And just whose patriotism are we getting upset about? Certainly not the Popes? And Rush's? His patriotism is hollow.

Chris Wren said...

If Rush Limbaugh is a devout Christian, then I'm the Pope's houseboy.

Freeman Hunt said...

That picture makes you look like a man. Truth.

Heh. That's certainly the first time anyone has told me that I appear mannish. Noted.

Fact: The Catholic Church has deemed gay people to be "objectively disordered" even if they are celibate their entire lives.

No, the Church deems homosexual inclination to be disordered.

Do you really think gay people should show respect for this antiquated, bigoted religion that treats gays with such contempt?

The part of the Catechism that I quoted makes an analogy between the difficulty of not acting on homosexual desire and the suffering of Christ himself on the cross. I would hardly call that contempt.

rcocean said...

Did you know the choral group sang the "Lord's Prayer" after "Battle Hymn" at the White House?

That must stick in the liberals craw. First, Bush has the Pope - a "homophobe" - at the white house and then plays the Lords Prayer.

The Pope & Bush say "God Bless America" - Obama and his preacher say "God Damn America". Guess which ones are the liberals?

SGT Ted said...

Heh. That's certainly the first time anyone has told me that I appear mannish. Noted.

Seeing your pic doesn't remind me of a man.

Maybe it's a gay thing to think that a slender woman appears "mannish".

Freder Frederson said...

Guess which ones are the liberals?

I doubt that the Pope is a traditional "conservative" in the mold of Bush. In fact once you get past issues of sexuality and family, he looks a lot more "liberal", if not downright socialist (as the term is thrown around here), than conservative.

AJ Lynch said...

Freeman:

You look like a babe IMHO.

I suspect DTL's reaction must be a heretofore undiscovered gender detector. It means DTL is gay without a doubt.

Trooper York said...

See what did I tell ya. If you don't want to be mistaken for a dude you need to be a fine full figured gal who enjoys her pasta, cake and brewski's. When the evidence is apparant that you fully partake and enjoy one of life's sensual pleasures, then you can assume that you will fully enjoy and partake in other more risques pleasures. Hey, maybe a famous artist will even paint your portrait. Just sayn'

PS: Freeman, you don't look like dude. Not that theres anything wrong with that.

MadisonMan said...

That must stick in the liberals [sic] craw.

Why would it? Bush lives there. He can have someone sing whatever he wants. Further, as a visiting head of State, the Pope's religion is acknowledged. It's nice to see respect accorded a foreign dignitary.

Pogo said...

I have long thought downtownlad was a vicious idiot, a soft-headed misanthrope who harbors a special hatred for gay men (for, one suspects, rather pedestrian historical reasons).

But his mistaking Freeman for a man casts doubt on his entire cerebral cortex, including vision and hearing, and not just cognition, which I thought was long past salvation.

At risk of appearing a slave to my own gonadal-limbic drive (not that I'm not, but appearances matter) Freeman is what most heterosexual males would classify as pretty, hot, even beautiful.

It's hilarious that DTL literally sees everything he looks at through his off-the-shelf Gay lenses. That is, a form of blinders.

Trooper York said...

I don't think it's nice to make a big deal of Freeman's appearance, it might make her self-conscious. It's not fair since she is one of the few commenters who post their picture on their blog. Unless we all post our own pictures for critiques or least some descriptions to allow the jibes and comments to flow back to us. I will start.

I definitely look like a dude.

A fat old dude. Think a taller Jackie Gleason with a very grey goatee.

Pogo said...

I do not in fact resemble a possum very much at all. I am average in so many ways that I am for the most part somewhat invisible. It's almost a super power. I can walk through crowds and no one notices me at all.

My own mother left me at a gas station once, forgetting all about me. Not that I blame her. Cuddly I ain't.

My plusses include "easily satisfied by almost any food", "cleans toilets", and "opposable thumbs".

rcocean said...

It's not Craw(sic) -- it's Craw!

Freeman Hunt said...

In fairness to DTL, I am wearing a baseball cap with my ponytail hidden behind my head in my tiny commenter picture. But you all are very nice.

tjl said...

"It's hilarious that DTL literally sees everything he looks at through his off-the-shelf Gay lenses"

No, Pogo, "hilarious" isn't the word that comes to mind whenever DTL strikes his one-note gong again.

Roger J. said...

The consensus is that among those testosterone burdened commentersthat Ms. Hunt is, in fact, a babe?

Pogo said...

My apologies to Freeman, by the way. Trooper, as usual, is right.

AJ Lynch said...

Pogo:

"off the shelf gay lenses" LOL.

Does that indicate DTL is one of the last gay Walmart shoppers? Heh.

rhhardin said...

It's not Craw, it's Craw
YouTube

rhhardin said...

ponytail

A sculptor once explained in a lecture why something had to be a female statue, owing to the way the neck joins the torso. The ponytail test was not mentioned.

Nichevo said...

Your pic is too small, Freeman, but it would appear you are a cutie. dtl just hates, and hates, and hates. I wonder if he is needed on Earth for any purpose or would be happier being put out of his misery. (This is not an offer, just an observation.)

dtl, I'm not Catholic nor interested in gay issues but am pretty sure that as of, say, 1600, homosexuality was violently discriminated against in Europe, Catholic and Protestant alike.

Ralph said...

I hope those military choruses sound better in real life than they do on TV, because they're usually stilted and thin.

peter hoh said...

After work, I thought I'd catch up with this thread. Started skimming after seeing it devolve, and then I caught the bit about Freeman Hunt being mistaken for a man. Too funny.

Revenant said...

"Freeman looks like a man" definitely qualifies for the craziest thing I've read this week. Maybe DTL has been heterosexual this entire time and just didn't understand what gender he had been having sex with.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Freeman, but it would appear you are a cutie.

True. Freeman, I didn't want to come off as a stalker, but I've always thought you looked hot. :)

Maybe DTL has been heterosexual this entire time...dtl just hates, and hates, and hates.

downtownlad is a hateful heterosexual who pretends to be hateful homosexual - to make them look bad.

AJ Lynch said...

Fen & Revenant:

Too funny- you guys should be writing jokes for a living !

I am still laughing at your comments.

Bissage said...

Please forgive me for two things.

First, everyone knows Althouse is very, very clever and that it’s bad form (and boring) to point that out. Still, I can’t help myself, just this once, as follows.

Pope?

Rush Limbaugh?

Ecstasy?

COME ON!!!

Second, please forgive me if anyone noted that previously. I only skimmed the comments.

Bissage said...

Wait . . . Freeman's a dude?

Oh, shit!

downtownlad said...

Saying that someone looks like a man is not an insult. Only homophobic bigots would view it as such.

Freeman was right - her baseball cap picture makes here look like a teenage boy.

The Catholic Church DOES consider gay PEOPLE to be objectively disordered, not gay sex. Go back and read Ratzinger's quote.

That's why CELIBATE gay priests are barred from the priesthood.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."

Freeman Hunt said...

Note that I never argued that the Church said gay sex was disordered. I've maintained that the Church says homosexual inclination is disordered.

Of course, you can disagree with that, but you can't assert that the Church deems gay people to be "intrinsically evil" because that is totally false.

Freeman Hunt said...

An entirely separate issue, but...

Saying that someone looks like a man is not an insult.

... it is if the person is not intending to look masculine. However, I wasn't insulted by what you said, so it's beside the point.

Ann Althouse said...

"Saying that someone looks like a man is not an insult. Only homophobic bigots would view it as such."

You need to read the Television Without Pity forums about "America's Next Top Model." It is the most common insult.

stylinchicxoxo said...

i'm surprised this time Bush didn't tell the Pope how "awesome" his speech was and also is it just me or does Pope Benedict seem a bit creepy??

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