June 15, 2008

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."

Is it okay for Obama to say that? If not, why not?

McCain supporters see something to exploit, and the angle is — watch for this meme — what if McCain had said that?

Well, of course, if you say something that resonates with the opinion we already have of you, we will comment on it one way, and if you say something that seems out of character, we take a different tack. So if a warmonger laughs about a bomb, we say one thing. If a peacenik laughs about a bomb, we say another. Both are attacked, and rightly so.

But Obama — is he a peacenik? — didn't laugh about a bomb. He used a figure of speech. (Actually, he amped up the old figure of speech don't bring a knife to a gun fight.)

Figures of speech matter a bit — they offer some insight. But in this case, I was glad to see Obama show some grit and fighting spirit. I worry that he's bland and effete. I worry that he's a peacenik. So — as someone who is committed to neither candidate — I welcomed the remark. I want him toughened up.

A better angle for McCain supporters: Bring a knife to the fight? Bring a gun? Obama runs away from a fight!

There's also the notion that Obama is supposedly represents a "new politics" that precludes tough fighting. Ben Smith writes:
"Why is Barack Obama so negative? In the last 24 hours, he’s completely abandoned his campaign’s call for ‘new politics,’ equating the election to a ‘brawl’ and promising to ‘bring a gun,' " said the RNC's Alex Conant.

Obama doesn't actually use the phrase "new politics" a lot, and this is a box that the Clinton campaign tried, and failed, to keep him in last year, when it emerged early that he was happy to throw punches, and even to start fistfights, sending, for instance, the first negative mail to hit in Iowa last fall.

Obama never paid much of a price for his willingness to go negative. He also, to be fair, never promised that he wouldn't attack, and indeed often promised to be tougher than past Democrats, and bragged of his Chicago training.
Obama would be crazy to avoid fights or to allow himself to be defined as a gentle sweetheart who won't say anything mean.

82 comments:

Kirby Olson said...

This sounds like the way a Crip or a Blood would talk. Was Obama in gangs as a youth? This language definitely shows a sort of gang-banging side to his character. He's exhorting a kind of hooliganism among his base, which makes me sick (Philadelphia Eagles fans are now a role model for how Democrats should behave?).

Repulsive imagery.

Meade said...

I suppose he could have said pipe bomb. But that might've brought up the whole Bill Ayers thing again.

He could have said "If they bring a knife, we'll bring a fork." Nnope, that would've brought up Bernadine Dohrn.

Damned he do, damned he don't.

Greg said...

Isn't that the Chicago way?

http://www.upstartfilmcollective.com/portfolios/jcharnick/multimedia/audio/chicago.wav

--Sean Connery
Jimmy-Malone, IL

Maguro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maguro said...

This sounds like the way a Crip or a Blood would talk

It is a Sean Connery line from the movie "The Untouchables".

Another Connery line from the same movie:

"Welcome to Chicago. This town stinks like a whorehouse at low tide".

Makes you think of Obama and his interesting friends.

Maguro said...

By the way, the fact that Obama is willing to attack his (non-peacenik) political opponents doesn't mean that he's not a "peacenik".

somefeller said...

As Greg pointed out, it's a movie line for the Chicago way of fighting. As a Chicago pol, there's nothing wrong with Obama using that line. The McCain people look like wussies for complaining about it, and your suggestion for a better angle for them to respond with is the right one, Ann.

And from where I'm sitting, as a former Hillary supporter who was concerned about whether Obama was tough enough to face the inevitable onslaught from the GOP, this line is music to my ears. I just hope it's not empty words.

Simon said...

I think it's fine. It does limit his options in responding to Parker - he can't bring a gun to a knife fight in D.C. if the kind of judges he says he would appoint prevail in that case.

Meade said...

Good point, Maguro. To be a peacenik, all one has to do is be opposed to a particular war, to favor peaceful negotiations over using military force. For instance, Jane Fonda, the feckless cunt, was a peacenik even as she sat on that Viet Cong anti-aircraft gun.

Paddy O. said...

Now I wonder if he's going to remember to load the gun before he brings it to the fight.

bearbee said...

The Chicago Way

EnigmatiCore said...

The question is not "Is Obama a far-lefty who will not fight." Ayers certainly fought.

The question is "Is Obama a far-lefty who would fight us, if he can't change us." Like Ayers.

dr kill said...

Your last several weeks of posts circle about the 'Real American Man' theme. One's sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or transgender status, race, religion, disability, ethnic origin, national origin, or age does not disqualify one from being a real man. It is all about accepting responsibility for your own actions.
That such men and women, who refuse to be labeled as victims, still exist is understood by all but the pinkest of Democrats.
These pinkies readily excuse such rhetorical violence from their own precisely because they know their kind never mean what they say; it's all metaphorical.
But when real men use such language the Lefties howl in chorus, they know the person using it might be serious.

Spread Eagle said...

I worry that he's bland and effete.

He is what he is. Why of all things would you get worried about it?

AJ Lynch said...

I assume someone is already photoshopping the pic of Obama on his bike while packing heat.

No seriously, what Obama said is an old old saying.

BTW Jimmy Hoffa famously said "Charge a gun and run from a knife".

How'd that advice work out for Hoffa?

Invisible Man said...

This sounds like the way a Crip or a Blood would talk. Was Obama in gangs as a youth?

Oh, Obama that scary, scary, blackity black man like those blackity, black Crips and Bloods. He's just like a gang member that Obama, when he uses language from a movie that probably didn't involve one black actor. Just like when he does that terrorist or blackity, black gansta fist jab. He's so gansta, or a thug, or a hooligan that scary Obama. So black, and probably willing to steal your mother's purse. Did I forgot to mention that Obama's black?

former law student said...

The question is "Is Obama a far-lefty who would fight us, if he can't change us." Like Ayers.

This demonstrates once again that right-wingers (I will not demean the honorable title of conservative) cannot comprehend the possibility of change. The rest of the world understands that the honored professor and teacher of the teachers of children at sixty is not the angry bombbuilder at twenty. Yet in the rightwinger's mind even now the distinguished professor is ready, willing, and able to bomb the Capitol.

Meade said...

former law student said...
[...] at sixty [...] even now the distinguished professor is ready, willing, and able to bomb the Capitol.

Able? At sixty? I doubt it.

EnigmatiCore said...

fls-

I am not a rightwinger, and I comprehend change.

Change does not usually involve complete and utter denial of there being a need to change, or of there being a change.

Ger said...

AA says:

"I worry that he's a peacenik"

Oh...yeah... nothing could possibly be worse than that!!

What we really need is a government advised and run by MORE chickenhawks. That's been going well so far don't ya think!!

If McCain wins this fall I just pray that he brings Liz Cheney (Dick Cheney Jr.) on-board.

/sarcasm

EnigmatiCore said...

Oh, and let me respond to this--

"Yet in the rightwinger's mind even now the distinguished professor is ready, willing, and able to bomb the Capitol"

Within the very recent past, said professor (who is far from distinguished beyond being a distinguished ass) expressed remorse that he and his cohorts had not done more. He may no longer have been ready or able, but he still was willing.

Maguro said...

Able? At sixty? I doubt it.

He wasn't really able in his younger days. Not very technicaly proficient...it's what happens when a bunch of English majors turn to terror.

If there was any justice, Ayers would be rotting in supermax with Ted Kaczinski and Eric Rudolph.

Meade said...

Getting back to Obama, Susan Faludi seems to suggest in the NYTs today that he may become our first transgendered president.

The Exalted said...

Kirby Olson said...
This sounds like the way a Crip or a Blood would talk. Was Obama in gangs as a youth? This language definitely shows a sort of gang-banging side to his character. He's exhorting a kind of hooliganism among his base, which makes me sick (Philadelphia Eagles fans are now a role model for how Democrats should behave?).

Repulsive imagery.


"gang banging"? blood and crips? your racist insight is as astute as always.

Chip Ahoy said...

How the supporters of a candidate who doesn't represent me responds to a figure of speech made by an opponent candidate who also doesn't represent me is irrelevant to me.

}}} IRRELEVANT! {{{

*sips coffee*

But, If Obama really wanted to amp up (I love that phrase) a thread worn figure of speech and avoid the Cliché Police, I would suggest he refer to bringing a MOAB to a gunfight, which reaches for graphic destruction while remaining clear of nuclear ordnance, which would be going too far. That is merely a suggestion by a disinterested party that was evoked by this post .

Chip Ahoy said...

FLS says "right-wingers", I automatically skip through to the next comment. Did he say something provocative again? Emanating from his one-track line of thought? Again? <--rhetorical question. Don't answer. If he were smart enough, he'd put that crap at the end of his comment and fool me into reading his dreary dronings. Predictable nature prevents that. HaHaHa x (-6)

Bissage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bissage said...

If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.

Makes him sound like a pussy.

Only pussies talk like that.

Tough guys in the real world do not talk like that.

Bissage said...

If Obama thinks talking like that makes him more of a tough guy then he's a pussy.

Oh yeah?! If you bring a gun then I'll bring a BIGGER gun.

Oh yeah?! If you bring a bigger gun then I'll bring a CANNON!

Oh yeah?! If You bring a cannon then I'll bring an ATOM BOMB!

How freaking third grade can a grownup get?

Pathetic.

Meade said...

We Are The Pussies We've Been Waiting For

rhhardin said...

It's also unwise to bring children to witness a battle. You may take a bullet in the neck and fall on them.

Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802) was the first to mention this poetically.

A ball now hisses through the airy tides
(Some Fury wings it, and some Demon guides),
Parts the fine locks her graceful head that deck,
Wounds her fair ear, and sinks into her neck ...

Then with weak arms, her weeping babes caress'd,
and sighing, hid them in her blood stained vest.


Whaddya know, it's online here.

Trooper York said...

"Tough guys in the real world do not talk like that"

Truer words were never spoken. Good show Bissage.

Kirby Olson said...

It's not really a fight, and it's not about killing the other person. It's a debate over the future of the country between friendly rivals. It's not a gang fight to the death. Obama should be more careful with his imagery. This is a very thuggish, hooliganesque way to speak about running for the president of the U.S.A.

Hillary would have never spoken like this. She would have talked about how if they bring knitting needles, we will bring sewing machines, and turned it into a quilting contest metaphor.

I still think it shows a deep insight into Obama's macho zero-sum gangsterish character and am put off.

I couldn't think of anything more sickening for him to say.

Paul Zrimsek said...

If youth only knew bomb-building!
If age only could build bombs!

Paul Zrimsek said...

If they bring a knife to the fight, we mobilize enlightened world opinion to express its displeasure about the knife, then we ask the UN for permission to bring a gun.

Trooper York said...

I think it's kind of silly to think that Barrack could be a Crip or a Blood.

A Shark or a Jet, sure.

He looks like a dancer.

rhhardin said...

If you're going to bring a sewing machine, I suggest an umbrella.

Figures of speech should be forced to meet in obscure allusions.

Methadras said...

This is totally juvenile and just another glaring example of the 'messiah' complex this fool is starting to develop by absorbing it from his moronic followers. If you want to be portrayed as a tough guy, then just saying it doesn't count. Otherwise tough talk is all it is, tough talk and that's pretty much the sum total of the Obama screed. Cotton candy pandering, with a slapdash of masculinity to lower the balls into the sack a little more, some chest puffing and thumping, and the final anti-climactic showdown where nothing happens and you are left with the sick feeling in your gut that you are supporting a braggart who fancies himself the head of a political syndicate.

Trooper York said...

If you bring an SUV, I am going to bring and ointment.

I think?

knoxwhirled said...

This just sounds silly coming from him.

knoxwhirled said...

enigmatic core beat me to it... Ayers recently said he was still proud of what he did. Talk about not changing.

bearbee said...

If you want to be portrayed as a tough guy, then just saying it doesn't count.

Wake me up when he has been a POW for 5 yrs with broken arms pulled out of their sockets.

I'm not a McCain fan but I can't help but marvel at that type of endurance.

I know that I could not have withstood the torture.

Invisible Man said...

I still think it shows a deep insight into Obama's macho zero-sum gangsterish character and am put off.

C'mon Kirby what your really put off about is that he's black. The fact that you equate Obama with being "gangterish" is all anyone needs to know. I doubt you thought Bush was "gangsterish" when he was talking about bringing people "Dead or Alive". For god's sake, I'm not sure if the guy has even held a gun unlike your NRA-loving conservatives, but facts like that don't matter when bigotry is involved. If you can't tell the vast, ocean-wide difference between Obama and a Crip or Blood, that says a whole lot about where you're coming from.

Meade said...

"If you bring an SUV, I am going to bring and ointment."

Okay! And I'll bring lemonade and pasta salad!

Meade said...

Invisible Man said... I doubt you thought Bush was "gangsterish" when he was talking about bringing people "Dead or Alive".

No... more like: There's a new sheriff in town. And then he brought people in dead or alive.

Or like when President Bush said, "Bring it on" in answer to concerns that "but but wouldn't that make Osama bin Laden mad and he might send all his fighters to Iraq?"

It did, they did, and now they're about done.

Tough talk is fine as long as it precedes kicking ass. What else do you want? Jimmy Carter?

The Exalted said...

If you can't tell the vast, ocean-wide difference between Obama and a Crip or Blood, that says a whole lot about where you're coming from.

and then some. only a dissembler or the truly ignorant would equate the eloquent, HLS Law Review candidate with gangbangers.

did the picture of bush flicking off the camera get your heart all aflutter as well?

Christy said...

That didn't strike me as gangsterish. It struck me that Obama is a man who only knows about America through what he sees on TV and in the movies. And that he believes it reflects reality. His life has been circumscribed by his church and his politicking. I think his experience is even more limited than what we all feared.

rhhardin said...

Don't bring a spork to a gunfight.

Trooper York said...

Don't bring a rabbi to a nun fight.

They don't like interference when they mix it up.

I remember when the Singing Nun duked it out with the Flying Nun.

It was damn scary.

Trooper York said...

The Singing Nun smacked the Flying Nun so hard she quit the convent and she started banging Burt Reynolds. Damn she had a punch.

Pal2Pal said...

You think Obama seems bland and effete? Look at who he chooses as friends. He is a snake who hinds behind others, encouraging them, but never taking responsibility. He is a street thug wannabe with the Chicago crime, I mean political, machine behind him. If McCain had rhetorically threatened to come gunning for Obama, the outcry would have been heard around the world. Barack Obama and that shrew wife of his have no class. McCain, much to the dismay of many, has been bending over backwards to be understanding and civil and not attack BHO, but if the Obama campaign keeps up with these types of challenges, all bets are off. You do not stand at a rally of blindly adoring supporters and call for a brawl and bringing a gun without considering the consequences of such reckless rhetoric.

The bottom line is that Obama is afraid of the townhall meeting format. I guess more than we realized if he likens one to a knife fight. Typical Marxist, take the guns away from everyone else, but keep one for himself, as the elite autocratic ruler, to bring the recalcitrant into line.

If the next 5 months of this campaign is anything like the first official week, I predict McCain wins in a landslide.

Kirby Olson said...

Invisible Man, I think your attempt to put my dismay at Obama's rhetoric into a racial category is somewhat silly. I don't think that Hawaii had Crips or Bloods when BO was growing up, and I doubt if they had them in Indonesia. But if I had said Mafia, that wouldn't have worked, either, because they only take full-blooded Sicilians.

The fact is I don't like the Democrats any longer. I was a Democrat for a long time, and for many reasons I now can't stand them any longer. They always choose someone too far to the left.

I didn't really think that Obama was a gang-member, but I can't stand him, and it's fun to try to stick "kick-me" signs to his shorts. But I'm doing this because he's too far to the left for my taste. I would prefer someone who is not too much of an idealist for president.

I couldn't stand Kerry either. I couldn't stand Edwards.

My idea of a sharp candidate would be Giuliani.

I like tough, smart guys who can see the big picture structurally. Those people may still exist in the Democratic party (I voted for Gore because I liked that he was tough and smart) but Obama? I'm not saying he's stupid, but he's way too idealistic for my taste, and I'm just having fun here.

Obama couldn't have made it in a gang. Even in a boy scout troop he would have looked silly. First off, he dances way too well to be a gangster. This man is extremely artsy, in one way, but he's also a dishonest opportunist, who will say or do anything to get elected.

I don't want him to be elected. Not because he's black (I hated Kerry much more than Obama -- Obama does at least write brilliantly and speak brilliantly) but because he's an idealist, and I'm afraid the country can't stand an idealist in the white house. We need a pragmatist.

McCain is the best we've got. I'd rather have Giuliani, but McCain beat him in Florida, and that's that.

Relax a little bit. I'm just attaching a kick me sign to Obama every chance I get. It's not because I am against idealism. I am an idealist.

I just don't think the rest of the world is ready to lay down their arms and be idealistic with us. So I'd rather have a tough pragmatic gutsy bastard like McCain in the White House.

I actually rather like Obama on a personal scale.

I just don't want anybody like that anywhere near national security. He's way too trusting, and nice.

Meade said...

And didn't the Flying Nun point out to us something like if only the Obamas ruled the world, there would be no gall durned wars? Something like that. She was accepting an award and trying to remember her lines and having trouble with them and she had to tell the audience Quiet! Quiet! Oh where was I? War... war... Oh damn... oh yeah, and I'm proud to be an Obama and let's face it...

Fox censored her for being a communist or something. But honestly, who would know better about these things than a commie nun who can fly?

Trooper York said...

I remember when she flew over Yankee Stadium when Pope Paul came to say Mass. Unfortunately she had a Belgian Waffle where the cream went bad and sort of had an accident when she flew over the Mayors Box. She missed Lindsey but got Abe Beame the Comptroller. Everybody always dumped on poor Abe.

Thats why they cancelled her series ya know.

former law student said...

For those who hate "The Untouchables," here are some more Sean Connery movie lines Obama could quote. But I am shocked at the implication that the G-man who got Al Capone was a wussy.

Barack Obama: Weren't you a blonde when I came in?
Hillary Clinton: Could be.
Barack Obama: I tend to notice little things like that - whether a girl is a blonde or a brunette.
Hillary Clinton: Which do you prefer?
Barack Obama: Well, as long as the collar and cuffs match.

In other notes: only the far-right are still fighting the Vietnam War. The rest of us realize it's over and that we lost. Nowadays, gadgets labelled "Made in Vietnam" are finding shelf space in our stores, right next to the Red Chinese products.

Bill Ayers on the subject of remorse: I’m sometimes asked if I regret anything I did to oppose the war in Viet Nam, and I say “no, I don’t regret anything I did to try to stop the slaughter of millions of human beings by my own government.” Sometimes I add, “I don’t think I did enough.” In other words, in the absence of time travel, Bill Ayers' radical activism is over.

Paul Zrimsek said...

In other notes: only the far-right are still fighting the Vietnam War. The rest of us are still fighting the 2000 election.

Fixed that for you.

former law student said...

the Mafia ... only take full-blooded Sicilians.

This has never been true of the Chicago Outfit, as the recent trial has demonstrated once again. From Frank "The German" Schweihs, back to Welshman Murray "The Camel" Humphreys, the Outfit has always opened its doors to men with the particular talents then needed. Japanese-American Ken Eto was perhaps the most diverse member.

EnigmatiCore said...

fls- His radical actions are over. His radicalism, not so much. His activism, not so much.

Your tolerance of them places you on the fringes, not 'right wingers' like me.

You need to move quite a ways to get within sniffing distance of the center.

Invisible Man said...

Kirby,

Your last post in making a point of how different Obama's experience and life is from a Crip or a Blood only demonstrates how racist your other posts are. First, as you say Obama grew up as far away from gang culture than possible unless you live in Nebraska. Second, he used a quote from Scot in a movie about Italian mobsters yet you brought up African-American real-life gang-bangers. And Third, the only similarity that Obama has to Bloods and Crips isn't lifestyle, economics, education, personality, criminal rap-sheet or even language in this case but the fact that he also is an African-American.

Saying know that "The fact is I don't like the Democrats any longer." isn't really a good explanation when you so erroneously compared him into gang-bangers and think quoting a movie classic is exhorting hooliganism. You can limply attempt to explain this as "joking", but the tone of your posts doesn't seem to contain a whole lot of humor. Unfortunately, I expect Obama to compared to about every black stereotype by the end of this campaign by person's like yourself, and if you can't see the insidiousness of that then my prior post stands.

Pal2Pal said...

only the far-right are still fighting the Vietnam War. The rest of us realize it's over and that we lost.

Actually, we are fighting the canard that "we" lost. Those who were actually fighting in Vietnam (my husband did 4 tours there) know "we" didn't lose, only the wussie politicians and cowards practicing their defeat at all costs lost. The rest of us know the truth and have vowed that never again will we let the defeatocrats have their way at the expense of America and her honorable and brave.

Meade said...

"Bill Ayers' radical activism," i.e, Bill Ayers's crimes of murder and terror.

The Exalted said...

in what way is mccain a pragmatist?

(besides his craven cowtowing to bush/rove and the religious right since 2000)

The Exalted said...

only the wussie politicians and cowards practicing their defeat at all costs lost.

the stabbed in the back canard never gets old, eh?

never forget 1919!

Pal2Pal said...

the stabbed in the back canard never gets old, eh?

No, what doesn't get old are the memories of a 2nd grade teacher telling your 7 year old that "God doesn't listen to prayers for baby killers," or witnessing your loved one return after 16 months in-country have a garbage can full of raw sewage dumped on him by a group of long-haired unwashed cowards chanting "killer, get the killer."

Joe said...

Since Obama is a strong advocate of strict gun control laws, where did the gun come from?

Paul Zrimsek said...

Now that you mention it, the fact that the Germans couldn't win in 1918 does pretty much prove that the Americans couldn't win in 1975.

Trooper York said...

Whenever you watched the Flying Nun, it always seemed like Carlos Ramirez wanted to slip her the old chorizo.

That made all the nuns at Sacred Hearts Grammar school scared of Puerto Ricans.

Trooper York said...

Good old Carlos always brought a chorizo to a nun fight.

P. Rich said...

grit and fighting spirit

No. Try petulance. Effete types like Obama don't do grit, or fighting spirit.

Trooper York said...

The Singing Nun got in a lot of trouble after she gave the Flying Nun that beat down. She had to move to Germany where she got a gig as the spokes model for Blue Nun wines. She was called the Blue Nun because after a couple of glasses of wine she started cursing like crazy.

Kirby Olson said...

Former Law Student, I didn't realize that the Mafia is now an Equal Opportunity program now. I stand corrected. My knowledge dated from Goodfellas when Henry and his friends couldn't get in due to the lack of a direct Sicilian bloodline.

Even the Mob is now seeing the benefits of diversity.

On the other topic, I don't see why an Invisible Man should care, but I would vote for Condi, not BO. And I don't really care what sinks him.

All's fair in politics.

I personally, would think that he couldn't stand up to a pack of Cub Scouts, and that's my real terror of him.

Trooper York said...

At the last nun convention in Las Vegas in 1998, the only nun to bring a knife was Sister Mary Elephant.

Kirby Olson said...

Are the Bloods and Crips also Equal Opportunity gangs at this point? I suppose they are. If so, then the racial comparison that L'Homme Invisible is making doesn't quite work. If not, then the left should press them to become more aware of the Equal Opportunity notion.

Maybe they should even let in an idealist wuss or two.

The Drill SGT said...

Bissage, let's inject a little humor into this with the Marine (Army) rules for a knife fight:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.


11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."


Navy Rules for Gun fighting:

1. Go to Sea

2. Send the Marines

3. Drink Coffee

Simon said...

The Exalted said...
"in what way is mccain a pragmatist? (besides his craven cowtowing to bush/rove and the religious right since 2000)"

Kowtowing. If you're going to attempt condescension, it helps to be able to spell the thing you're accusing someone of doing.

McCain has demonstrated pragmatism and bipartisanship on numerous occasions; the most obvious one that jumps to mind would be the one for which he took the most heat from his own party, the Nuclear Option kerfuffle. On what issue has Obama taken a politically risky stand that he knew would draw fire from his own party?

Cedarford said...

But Obama — is he a peacenik? — didn't laugh about a bomb. He used a figure of speech. (Actually, he amped up the old figure of speech don't bring a knife to a gun fight.)

Nah, and while I detest Black Messiah and his Team Axelrod-driven apotheoisis..in this case he was just good-naturedly quoting famous lines from Sean Connery in "The Untouchables". The "Chicago Way".

Which of course has been lovingly spoofed in listing other attributes of "The Chicago Way".

1. You bring decent food to a party, we bring Old Milwaukee and disgusting glopped-up CHicago dogs! Eat that!
2. You bring 4 registered Republican voters to the polls, we bring 7 winos claiming to be dead people in Cook Cemetery.
Then we bring the 7 winos back two more times to summon the spirit of long-deceased black patronage workers and polish mailmen. Doesn't matter if you notice and bitch, all the poll workers are in on it too - for it is the Chicago way.

3. Like JFK? Well, you owe Chicago and the Chicago Way.

4. When fish die in the billions, we really do smell like a whorehouse at low tide. Unlike other cities, we are proud of that. It's the Chicago way.

5. What other city that does not embrace the sweet whiff of corruption and identity politics pandering would be big enough to claim such a big, loathsome cast as their own? Farrakan, Jesse Jackson, 5 Generations of Daley thieves? The sleazy Pritzkers and Ayers? We are a beacon of opportunity for the corruptest of the corrupt, now moving from Syria, Israel, Iraq, Mexico City to get their cut and live the Chicago Way.

***********************

Drill SGT - 21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Yep, that's our jarheads!

Navy Rules for Gun fighting:

1. Go to Sea

2. Send the Marines

3. Drink Coffee


You forgot the AF rules for Gun Fighting:

1. Go to the office and have a coffee.
2. Call up the hanger and load planes with desired ordnance for the target. Ask if they have enough coffee and gender diversity themselves before they wing off.
3. Work on 2nd Masters degree and what 130K and above jobs you have lined up when you leave - while you await death&destruction after battle report so you can file another folder in your office.

And Army:

Army Rules for Gun fighting:

1. Spend 6 months moving the 9.7 tons stuff each soldier needs, which adds up to 97 tons considering only one in 10 is a frontline combat trooper. Indoctrinate the soldier in those 6 months in every contingency BUT the nature of the enemy they face and must understand in a gunfight.

2. Spend the next 3 years arguing that it was unfair, and would have been over if it had been a armor battle between tanks in the Fulda Gap.

Bissage said...

Sarge, . . . LOL!!1!1!!

(It's been too long. Hope you and yours are doing well!)

The Exalted said...

simon,

noticed my typo right after submitting, but spelled that way brings up nice imagery imo.

mccain's stance on the nuclear option was risky? maybe from his own party, but it was surely the politically savvy thing to do. the opinion polls were solidly against the nuclear option. (in hindsight, with a democratic majority in place and looking to expand, saving the filibuster does seem pragmatic though, eh)

obama's stance against the war in 2003 was certainly risky given the success of the first gulf war which, lets face it, is what drove 90% of democratic support.

with the exception of his tentative embrace of the religious right and bush, mccain has always struck me as the impulsive idealist, not pragmatic by any means. thats why the press loves him. witness his 2000 campaign where he foolishly took on jerry falwell and pat robertson and encouraged a revolution in the GOP.

anyhow, i'll never accept any strong supporter of the iraq war as pragmatic. misguidedly idealistic, ok.

blake said...

Given that this is a metaphor, isn't Obama just saying, really:

"However badly we decide THEY'RE acting, WE will act that much worse."

?

Kirby Olson said...

Blake, the answer is yes, unless he's quoting something else, which some here believe he is.

But I think that's what he's saying. Otherwise he should have quoted the film he was citing specifically. Not all of us watch every last mobster film, and his job is to be a great communicator.

I think most of us will read his sentence just as you've translated it, including most of his base.

blake said...

Regardless of the origin of the phrase, it can't mean anything good in context, unless you subscribe to the notion that your opponents are wicked and unscrupulous.

In an ideal world we would have two honest men whose strategy would be solely this: Present the voters with the honest truth about what you plan to do and how, and your honest assessment of what you'll actually be able to accomplish.

Then we'd have a choice between two people whose policies we understood.

In this sort of match--a truly new kind of politics--there is no such thing as weapon upgrade. What are you going to do? Be even more honest than the other guy? Play even fairer?

There is no context where this analogy connotes good behavior. Even if you believe you are good and your enemies evil, well, then there's no honor in holding back.

So, I assume that the metaphorical weapons will be used for actual character assassination.

Kirby Olson said...

Here's what he should have said:

"If they bring the ice cream, we'll bring the pie."

This would be much better because it would indicate that they are both contributing something, and the voters will vote for what they think is the better contribution, not simply vying for power, as he and Lady MacBeth seem to think.

Plus, the images would have a more summery feeling to them, and since it is now summer, voters could relate.