July 7, 2009

"Sanford is in love. Palin is in pain. Sometimes what it seems to be is what it is."

Why not take people at their word... at least when their words are rambling, disjointed, and apparently against self-interest?

57 comments:

AllenS said...

Sometimes a Fish is just a fish.

Joan said...

Fish is a sensible guy. I wish I could remember to read him when you don't link.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Why not take people at their word...

I think the reason a lot don't is because they simply don't want to believe the words they hear.

MadisonMan said...

Yes, Why don't we just believe these politicians? Politicians have never lied before.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"Why not take people at their word..."

I think the reason a lot don't is because they simply don't want to believe the words they hear.

Or, they simply can't comprehend that people can actually say what they mean without being full of subterfuge and hidden motives. THEY are all built that way, (sneaky lying backstabbing unethical pricks), and can't fathom any other way of being.

Maguro said...

I don't think anyone is disputing that Sanford is in love. Clearly he's having a pretty embarrasing mid-life crisis. The Palin thing is just odd and her reasons don't make much sense when taken at face value, so it's natural to wonder what the hell is going on. Plus, she's a politician.

Triangle Man said...

The second comment on the article's page made me laugh out loud:

"How can you — a Milton scholar and professor of literature — defend their tactics?"

I suspect it would not have been as funny if I hadn't followed the link from Althouse.

Althouse, how could you, a law professor, link to an article defending their tactics?!

John Althouse Cohen said...

Palin was obviously not saying what she was really thinking in her speech. I don't know her real reasons for stepping down, but she did not state those reasons in her speech.

But I'm not surprised if Stanley Fish is sympathetic with Sarah Palin. They both have a knack for giving a vague impression of bold straight talk without actually making much sense.

traditionalguy said...

The dichotomy between war and peace comes to mind. When at war, all is deception for fear the enemy will see clearly and attack. When at peace we are safe and we can talk straight. Trusting and expressing your real beliefs among strangers is foolish, but withholding them among friends is a lack of faith in the friendship. Anyway, Palin has accepted the hardest job of them all: she trusts her traditional friends in the American public and sends them her real message while she ducks and weaves from the barrage of missles incoming from her ideological enemies. No matter how skilled she is at this activity, she is being told by pundits that she should pick one or the other. It seems her only crime now is her intention to win. But why is it that a traditional white woman and Christian believer who choses to win can create such fear and anguish that she has generated 7 threads of 100-200 comments while Michael Jackson's death reverts to 5 comments on one thread the moment Sarah said she is planning to win?

John Althouse Cohen said...

But why is it that a traditional white woman and Christian believer who choses to win can create such fear and anguish that she has generated 7 threads of 100-200 comments while Michael Jackson's death reverts to 5 comments on one thread the moment Sarah said she is planning to win?

It must be this country's deep-seated prejudice toward whites and Christians. Those white Christians -- can they ever catch a break?

Aaron said...

Occam's razor holds that the simplest solution/explanation is usually the best. But in any industry that values chatter over facts, the opposite approach seems to have been approved: the most complicated explanation is the best.

i wouldn't be surprised if we see palin cash in a little and then disappear. And Sanford, yeah, i think he is just confused on romance. and it doesn't matter. he should be impeached if only for abandoning his job.

Invisible Man said...

But why is it that a traditional white woman and Christian believer who choses to win can create such fear and anguish that she has generated 7 threads of 100-200 comments while Michael Jackson's death reverts to 5 comments on one thread the moment Sarah said she is planning to win?

WTF does being a traditional white woman have to do with anything. I love how Republicans like yourself always pillory liberals for bringing up race, but you can't help yourself making some nonsensical point based upon the point that she's white. Is your point that traditional white women can't be feared? Is it your point that we should fear MJ's rotting corpse because he's black(or a rough approximation of black)? What is your point?

And remember its not me who decided to bring race into this.

MadisonMan said...

traditional white woman

What the heck is a traditional white woman?

American Liberal Elite said...

He looked white to me.

TosaGuy said...

Meanwhile, Iran and Honduras are in turmoil, Russia is running diplomatic rings around Obama, Congress is discussing massive changes to the energy and health care sectors of our economy and unemployment is pushing 10 percent........by all means lets keep talking about Sanford, Palin, Jackson.......

AllenS said...

A traditional white woman, is a woman who knows how to, and does, cook for her family. Another traditional white woman thing is sighting in your rifle, shooting a moose, gutting it, and serving the meal. All before noon.

AllenS said...

Unfortunately, most white women go to college, and then can't do a fucking thing.

The Crack Emcee said...

"Giving a vague impression of bold straight talk without actually making much sense."

My thoughts of Stanley Fish, exactly. He's an intellectual titmouse. Sarah Palin's different: I get what she's going for when I hear her speak, but her disjointed way of expressing herself makes me whince. I find that fascinating:

An idiot who writes well Vs a more grounded individual who can't express herself. The dummy is considered wise, while a natural leader is regarded as stupid. What did Stephen Colbert say to John Kerry?

"You can be part of the lie if you want to,..."

Fred4Pres said...

When I was just a governor
I asked Fred Barnes, what will I be
Will I be President, will my future be rich
Here's what he said to me.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

When I was young, I got tapped by Mac
I asked my Steve Schmidt what lies ahead
Will we have rainbows, day after day
Here's what Steve Schmidt said.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

Now I have children of my own
They ask their mother, why won't they let us be
First it was Sullivan, then Letterman
I tell them tenderly.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

traditionalguy said...

JAC...White Christian women only catch a break when they do not deny the strength of their traditions. The rest of the time they are easily hated targets much as the Israeli Jews find themselves being the world's easily hated targets today for their very existence, no matter how hard they have tried to become like everybody else.

Pogo said...

Like with Jackson's death, understanding the real reasons behind Palin's resignation will only come in time.

I have learned to avoid even thinking about these matters anymore, such as a plane crash or car accident, etc etc., for there is a reliable weeks-to-months duration of unavoidable ignorance which is unimproved by speculation.

However, patience, like honesty, is no virtue in the news industry.

vet66 said...

Until proven otherwise, I believe Palin knows what she is doing. What makes the status quo nervous is when somebody like Palin breaks free of the pack. At that instant all predictability providing succor to those running with the pack is rendered irrelavant.

Eschewing the "business as usual" of the beltway and typical (Fill in the blank) derangement syndrome of the far left and right, Palin has disrupted with purpose their safe little worlds.

Underestimating the abilities to survive and thrive in a hostile environment like Alaska is suicidal. Toss into the mix a determined woman who threatens the masculinity of both men and women unsure of their own weak powers and you have crossed the Rubicon of old.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Palin is a skilled huntress and when she decides to go on the rhetorical attack the metro-sexual males and vapid females in need of constant affirmation will look like deer caught in the headlights of a Peterbilt truck.

Palin is not "Business as usual." Get used to working outside the parameters of the self-inflicted wound that is our current east and west coast aristocracy.

Triangle Man said...

@MadisonMan

What the heck is a traditional white woman?

Doesn't this mean a woman who will attend to housework and raising children, and who has had the good sense to refrain from being too "ethnic".

L. E. Lee said...

I wrote several days ago that Republicans who use to pillory the left for engaging in identity politics and victim-hood have now become the biggest practitioners of both.

The only reason Sarah Palin has been on the national stage is to appeal to the sense of aggrievement that some white Christians supposedly feel towards coastal elites. Republicans have been playing this hand for decades now. The problem for the Republicans is that with the internet most people "in flyover country" do not feel that sense of separation with the rest of the country. Also, there is a lot more mobility between the various regions of the county. You might live in the middle but you probably have a grown son who lives on the coast.
Comedians in particular did a great job over the past year focusing on how ridiculous Sarah Palin's act was. She is too dumb to realize that nobody is buying this bumpkin act anymore and is now having a hissy fit.

rhhardin said...

Palin chiefly sounded inept, and Sanford uninteresting.

Palin should hire Fish next time, to organize her thoughts.

(Fish in the late 70s was concerned chiefly with discrediting Wayne Booth, the elder competition in the irony biz. Misreading was the way to go, back then. Today he's the elder.)

traditionalguy said...

Invisable man... My linking of three adjectives together must have been confusing. The "Traditional" adjective refers to the culture pre-dating the great late-1960's baby-boomer rebellion against all authorities in school, church, and government. Those rebel boomers now Run the institutions they hated then and are trying to destroy now (See, Wm Ayres). The adjective white refers to the Anglo-Saxon/german/scandinavian immigrants and their descendants that settled and prospered in former British colonies (now called the USA) since the 1600's. The adjective woman is a only social construct these days. All mixed together the three adjectives must seem confusing to you.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But I'm not surprised if Stanley Fish is sympathetic with Sarah Palin. They both have a knack for giving a vague impression of bold straight talk without actually making much sense.


I guess he should love Obama then.

L. E. Lee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sloanasaurus said...

Apparently, in Alaska you can only use your own money to defend yourself against ethics complaints. The national democrats kept filing the complaints costing Palin some $500k to defend. So far every complaint has been thrown out. Nevertheless, Palin is near bankruptcy. She is not wealthy. That is why she resigned.

L. E. Lee said...

traditionalguy wrote
"Those rebel boomers now Run the institutions..."

Sorry to burst your bubble but Obama and most of the people running things are now from the generation came of age right after the baby boom.
I was taken back with the news yesterday of Robert McNamara's death that in term of years we are now as removed from the 1960s and the Vietnam era as they were from the WWI years.
But some conservatives want to pretend that the 1960s is still central to our politics. John Kerry in 2004 was your last chance at playing that game.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But some conservatives want to pretend that the 1960s is still central to our politics.

Well Obama's trip to Russia to cut some arms deal seems like he still thinks its 1982 and the Warsaw Pact is poised to strike.

Sloanasaurus said...

But some conservatives want to pretend that the 1960s is still central to our politics. John Kerry in 2004 was your last chance at playing that game.

What. If only the democrats returned to the 1960s when they used to generally stand up for America. Today, democrat's gut feeling is to support Hugo Chavez first and ask questions later.

The Crack Emcee said...

And BTW, yea, hating on a certain vision of whites, now, is as real as hating on blacks used to be - and both phenomena are the result of what we know as Democrats: The Dixiecrats were the party of the KKK and, now, they're keeping race in our faces as another way to control us.

John Althouse Cohen is willingly ignoring the (wrongheaded) cultural shift see before us as a way to take another piece of white flesh. Invisible man is in denial as well - and on the attack - which is doubly stupid.

Me, I take the long view of history, but fear I can't express it well:

The racist white culture of the past was wrong - and it was inevitable they would lose. But they also did we Americans who followed them a huge favor by leaving us a wonderful legacy: The Greatest Country On Earth. If we squander what they fought so hard to protect, by continuing to perpetuate the idiotic notions they died with, we're no better than they were, and, personally, I don't think that's what we should be striving for.

Let it go.

Quayle said...

She is too dumb to realize that nobody is buying this bumpkin act anymore

Could you help me understand your brillient criticizm of Palin, superior intellect: you are saying that Palin has been putting on an act? A bumpkin act? That is is all an act?

And you are saying that she is too dumb to realize that people are seeing through the act?

And she is too dumb to realize that people can see right through it?

So people can see that she really isn't dumb, but she is too dumb to know that they know that she isn't dumb?

So behing the dumb act, she really is smart, but still too dumb to realize that people realize she is smart?

OK. I get it. That's real insight!

Quayle said...

Sorry to burst your bubble but Obama and most of the people running things are now from the generation came of age right after the baby boom.

They were the first generation indoctrinated by the baby boomers in our now-failing acadamies.

L. E. Lee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
L. E. Lee said...

Quayle, you are right. If it is an act then most Americans think Palin is trying to play them as rubes. If Palin is really the bumpkin that she is portraying herself as being, then she is just dumb. I wish I knew the answer for you.

L. E. Lee said...

Though, either way she is pretty dumb.

The Crack Emcee said...

L. E. Lee,

Again, I may not say this well, but you and I are close in our thinking, though you're still confused:

I'm no "white Christian" and Sarah Palin's emergence at the Republican Convention was a breath of fresh air to me - as, I think, she was intended to be. You seem to deny there is a "conservative" outlook she represents (one that shuns the offensive coastal idea of a "flyover country") that favors an American ideal. You strive to weaken us. Palin appeals to our strengths.

And, while you're right that Generation Jones (the tiny group that follows the boomers - which I, and Obama, belong to) aren't part of the 60s, those idiotic boomers had kids, who also had kids, and raised them with their nonsensical ideas: so the 60s are NOT gone. As Hoosier Daddy points out (9:13) they live on, stronger than ever, and still rule the roost. The harmful and stupid wing anyway. Sloanasaurus is right: Democrats used to be different - Both Kennedys, and Johnson, were hawks; not part of this apologize to the world for who were are crowd.

It's time to grow up, dude.

goesh said...

Pants down with one, pants firmly on with the other - in all things, simplicity

Hoosier Daddy said...

Though, either way she is pretty dumb.

Well lets see. We have the articulate Ivy League educated Obama who decried the policies which put us in the worst economic condition since 1929 and we thinks it can be fixed by spending yet even more money we don't actually have, putting the national debt past the point of no return, taking over an auto industry when it can't even run a housing tenement properly and wanting to pass cap and at a time when US industry is already fleeing or shutting down.

Thanks but I'll take dumb Palin over that any day.

mariner said...

JAC:
Palin was obviously not saying what she was really thinking in her speech. I don't know her real reasons for stepping down, but she did not state those reasons in her speech.


If you don't know what she was thinking, and you don't know her real reasons for stepping down, why did you bother to post this inane comment?

mariner said...

traditionalguy:
But why is it that a traditional white woman and Christian believer who choses to win can create such fear and anguish that she has generated 7 threads of 100-200 comments while Michael Jackson's death reverts to 5 comments on one thread the moment Sarah said she is planning to win?


We can wonder at the one while being thankful for the other, yes?

JAL said...

Now that I have mulled it a few days I really can see her point. ("What point?" You ask. Or "which one?")

Being governor - even of Alaska - requires focus and energy. Given that every move she makes or does not make is under someone's magnifying glass, and she keeps getting hit with stupid -- I mean *really stupid* -- ethics charges, she does not have the ability to do the job she was elected to, the way she wants to, and in the meanwhile it is costing the state, her self professionally and personally, and her family dearly.

Why waste more time, energy, money and privacy when the state would be served well by her lieutenant governor, her family will be served, and she can step back and focus.

Governor Palin may well intend to run for another office. But she may also want to pursue other ways of influencing conservative politics. Or both.

I grew up when there were very few pundits to tell us what people really mean. One reason I have bailed on TV "news and analyses" is that it is shallow, silly, and a waste of my time.

English is my first language. And I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. And the news media and politicians seem to think that the hoi polloi -- We the People -- need their assistance.

In this post modern world it is thought that things do not mean what they mean. Everything has to mean something else, and that varies by the interpreter. We do not need incessant deconstruction.

We need accurate information.

(And BTW, the picture that has been on Drudge shows Palin walking away from her resignantion announcement smiling. Please don't analyze that for me. I think she was satisfied at that moment. When she's ready to tell us the rest of the story, she will)

L. E. Lee said...

Dear Crack Emcee

The only people who say "flyover country" are Rush Limbaugh and other rightwing hucksters. They are playing you for rubes.

The Crack Emcee said...

L.E.,

Sorry, but you don't strike me as someone who knows the first thing about Rush. And I can't waste time with the charge I may be a rightwing huckster's rube when it comes from someone who is, clearly, really confused and determined to perpetuate damaging ideas.

Look, I'm going to try this one more time:

No, fuck it: you're stupid.

Cedarford said...

At least Jesse "The Body" Ventura had the courage to admit that being a governor was hard work and that he wasn't ready for the job...

Ventura talked about walking away from the job in his last 6 months because "the media was hounding him and his family", the legislature was lined up against reform, and also so "Minnesota could have it's 1st woman Governor" replace him. That caused a huge flap in the state as rumors Ventura was quitting spread. Ventura finally had to make a statement saying that he "was just thinking out loud" and denied he was serious about quitting.
He then announced he wasn't running again, something that he had indicated earlier..but he still owed it to the people who elected him to finish his term.

Which he did.

TitusItisRainingYetAgain said...

Why should we even read analysis about Palin by some left wing commie writer from the NY Times.

What do they know.

I just pinched another less satisfying loaf. Just a light squirt of poop. Amazingly enough it required 5 wipings-that's quite a bit. Picture a mini cowpie-that was it's appearance. A couple of "squirty" farts accompanied the poop.

And again, as always, thank you.

William said...

I didn't know that there was a female version of "Hawkeye" Natty Bumppo, but Palin seems to be it. I saw her interview with Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC. She was with her family and dressed in her work gear. She looked natural and at ease doing hard, physical work against a background of primitive nature. She looked like something far rarer and more valuable than a glib politician. Whatever reservations one might have about her skills as a politician, she seems to be an absolutely first rate human being.....She is only a few years, perhaps only a few months, away from this undocumented, unreflexive life that she was designed to live. Stanley Fish has it about right. She is living in a moment of pain and confusion. Perhaps she wants to wear designer clothes and step across the stage while thousands cheer. Perhaps she wants to wear heavy overalls and strain the muscles in her back. The fact that she is more tempted by this latter lifestyle speaks well of her. Compare the temptation that she has succumbed to to those that brought down Sanford, Edwards, and Spitzer. She really is a class act.

bagoh20 said...

again?

mccullough said...

Sanford is in love. Palin is in pain. And Obama is in Russia negotiating arms reductions.

Wake me when this is over.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The only people who say "flyover country" are Rush Limbaugh and other rightwing hucksters.

Well I know a few leftys who have referred to me as a Jesusfreak and think I'm a southerner although I'm from Indiana.

Kinda goes to show who really lives in a bubble.

MadisonMan said...

think I'm a southerner although I'm from Indiana.

You're south of here :)

Synova said...

"But some conservatives want to pretend that the 1960s is still central to our politics. John Kerry in 2004 was your last chance at playing that game."

And John Kerry was *old*.

I think that liberals also want to pretend that the 1960's are still central to our politics. Pure, vital and young.

Now what we've got, though, is the flower-child wannabes, the love and peace poseurs.

Hoosier Daddy said...

You're south of here :)

Yeah but I bet you talk funnier than I do :-)

Nichevo said...

Re: Palin, has anybody here read and retained James Clavell's SHOGUN?

Think of Gov. Palin as Mariko trying to free the hostages from Osaka Castle.

raf said...

Hoosier:

As I recall, we always used to say that the South started at Meridian St in Naptown.