Althouse: "You lie."

September 9, 2009

"You lie."

Joe Wilson said it:

But Obama kinda did too. And this — "a lie, plain and simple" — came before Joe Wilson's "you lie":

Obviously, Obama was the official speaker, and it's rude to yell something at the speaker. But Obama was guilty of disrespecting his critics by labeling their arguments nothing but a lie and — after getting a standing ovation for it — moving on.

Wilson's little outburst got a lot of attention, and that has lessened the amount of discussion of the actual content of Obama's speech itself. But I suppose that Obama supporters are using it to try to paint all the critics of the proposed legislation as louts to be dismissed out of hand.

219 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 219 of 219

jr565 said...: Here you go democrats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxmEGG71PM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emererhetoric%2Ecom%2Farchives%2F11275877%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

Dems booing the president when he makes plain and honest points about fixing social security. What's the matter were the dems standing in the way of change and reform? Where did they suddenly learn these civility lessons?; 9/10/09, 10:06 AM
former law student said...: But meanwhile your company's competitors don't. The companies competing with yours then has a--drum roll please--competitive advantage over your company.

This analysis assumes that employees don't care what sort of health care plan they get. If they cared, they would quit and try to get hired by the company that offered the better health care plan. That company would be able to pick and choose the best candidates. Thus the company which offered the better health care plan would have a competitive advantage over the ones that didn't.

Basically aaron is saying that companies that compensate their employees less have a competitive advantage over others. But that is true only if employees are fungible.; 9/10/09, 10:14 AM
phosphorious said...: Do you think McCain should be removed from office for insisting that Joe apologize?

Certainly, you're not going to stand there as a US Senator tries to impose civility on an elected official, are you?

Something must be done!!!; 9/10/09, 10:21 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: If they cared, they would quit and try to get hired by the company that offered the better health care plan

Ha ha ha. You don't work do you? Have a family to support and a mortgage to pay?

What planet do you people come from?

But that is true only if employees are fungible.

They ARE with very few exceptions. You just blew up your own argument; 9/10/09, 10:42 AM
KCFleming said...: If even 10% of the anger at Wilson were ever directed at Rengel, I'd believe the cries of horror from Congress.; 9/10/09, 10:43 AM
Ritmo Re-Animated said...: "But that is true only if employees are fungible."

They ARE with very few exceptions. You just blew up your own argument.

In the above statement it seems there is a refusal to see the difference between fungibility and dignity.

This is a great book for getting people to re-evaluate that distinction.

While the malignant narcissists who swell the ranks of our CEOs, politicians and other nasty types might have a psychological deficit when it comes to differentiating between human beings and objects, I don't think it's any coincidence that the leaders of our most innovative, and usually, our most successful companies, tend to see things much, much differently.

Perhaps Bunny prefers to see the latter as the exception to the rule. I'm inclined to think that the latter is rapidly becoming the rule.; 9/10/09, 11:21 AM
A.W. said...: Former

> But that is true only if employees are fungible.

Or if employers can’t really tell the difference between them at hiring time. You also assume that the customers are going to select certain plans based on which company is providing it. Right now the insurance company is moribund because of government interference. Most people get their insurance through their employer, and it’s the least of their concerns when deciding to accept a job—especially in this economy. Seriously, were you asleep in antitrust? What we have now is a classic tying arrangement, which is just plain bad for choice. The answer, then, is to end this tying arrangement between your employer and insurance companies and let you choose your medical insurance freely.

Making the market less free is not the answer.; 9/10/09, 11:51 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: In the above statement it seems there is a refusal to see the difference between fungibility and dignity.

We are talking about economics and dignity isn't part of the fungibility equation.

If you want to discuss philosophy, well, there is a different topic.

You are confusing economics and business cycles as entities who care.

Sure. You get better results when you treat your employees with dignity. But you give them more dignity by being able to stay in business and give them a freaking paycheck. All the dignity in the world doesn't mean do-squat if your employer kindly and gently has to lay you off because he can't afford to stay in business.

Typical bleeding heart liberal idiocy.; 9/10/09, 12:31 PM
David said...: I had over $400,000 of medical expense in the past 6 years, due to cancer. There was never a hint that my insurance would drop me.

My wife who died in 1996 had a similar amount. The insurer was very cooperative.

I'm sure what Obama claims has happened but it's not the norm and a contract violation when it does.

So does Obama not understand this or is he lying. Sadly, I think he does not understand it. That's worse than a lie.

These people do not know what they are doing.

800-288-2020; 9/10/09, 1:01 PM
Alex said...: I salute Joe Wilson. May he have a long and prosperous career. Too bad he caved in to McCain's bullying to apologize to the Creep in Chief. Show no mercy, no surrender!; 9/10/09, 1:56 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I had over $400,000 of medical expense in the past 6 years, due to cancer. There was never a hint that my insurance would drop me.

My Dad's been racking up the bills at MD Andersen, and BCBS has done nothing but pay pay pay.; 9/10/09, 2:39 PM
former law student said...: My Dad's been racking up the bills at MD Andersen, and BCBS has done nothing but pay pay pay.

In Houston? Texas Blue Cross/Blue Shield is owned by Health Care Service Corporation, which is owned by its customers, not investors.; 9/10/09, 3:27 PM
former law student said...: What planet do you people come from?

The planet where workers are free agents, not wage slaves.

Don't you come from the Entrepreneur Planet, yourself? Where people can rely on their skills to earn enough to support families and pay mortgages?; 9/10/09, 3:30 PM
blake said...: FLS comes from the planet where China is a libertarian paradise.

What's the matter with you people! Don't you see that the only way not to be more like China is to socialize everything?!?; 9/10/09, 3:49 PM
dave in boca said...: Those with longer memories recall another Joe Wilson and his scag-of-a-wife on the cover of Vanity Fair preening after their Plamegate BS & a phony Special Prosecutor found Scooter guilty [when all along it was Colonoscopy Powell's dude who tipped off Robert Novak, R.I.P.! And scumbag JW & scagwife never apologized, not even after Scooter was proved innocent.

This SC version of Joe Wilson tells the truth "to power," another trope which quickly disappeared after the Dembots lied their way into power. Bush didn't lie, the first Joe Wilson sure did. He dined out on that BS & is now probably in some DimwitDem think tank cranking out agitprop for dummies [Demmies].

Protocol issues aside, [and the Dembot loonies in Congresscritterland yelled at GWB in 2005], Obama isn't getting any traction on the fabled [largely mythical] ability of a good speech to sway the public in the marketplace of ideas. First of all, most Americans may have watched the great tennis match in the US Open or Monster Quest &/or Ghosthunters, all as important and realistic as the silliness that now pervades inside the Beltway.

When San Fran Nan displays an inability to move facial muscles [due to multiple Botox injections, no doubt] and a grinning buffoon like Biden reminds viewers that Obambi might not be as bad as the next-in-line, why not allow yourself an alternative by watching a DVD, the Yankee/Ray game, and wait for Dennis Miller afterwards to give a better sum-up than Bri-boy Will-i-ams or Katie Couric or even Chuck-[I despise Sarah Palin]- Gibson? Or the absent-on-vacation The Daily Show.

Obama is turning into Jimmy Carter faster than even I expected.; 9/10/09, 5:31 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: DBQ "What planet do you people come from?"

MUL: The planet where workers are free agents, not wage slaves.

Your statement that "This analysis assumes that employees don't care what sort of health care plan they get. If they cared, they would quit and try to get hired by the company that offered the better health care plan". Is just silly and it is obvious that you don't have a job or responsibilities that go along with having a life.

No one is forcing anyone to stay on a job. They are perfectly free to quit, move, get new jobs. They are free agents and as already discussed.....fungible.

People who work for small businesses, which is the majority of the population, are not going to quit a perfectly good job because the retail store down the street is offering a health insurance plan with a lower deductible than the store they work in now.

Most people are practical enough to recognize that a decent job with minimal or even no benefits is better than NO job. Pressuring your company or your boss to provide higher expensive benefits is NOT going to keep you employed. Forcing that boss by the government to do so is going to make it certain that you won't stay employed.; 9/10/09, 6:07 PM
Unknown said...: And the GOP, my party, sinks further away from the American middle ground. But don't worry. You already lost me when you (the GOP) lied and turned your backs on the American citizens of the Gulf South after Katrina. You spun that too. We are wise to your games now.; 9/10/09, 9:32 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Anne Althouse actually wrote this:

but Obama was guilty of disrespecting his critics by labeling their arguments nothing but a lie .

She does not care if there is an effort to make people believe a lie.

She does not care if people bear false witness.

She only finds outrage when liars are called on their lying. There are no death panels in the bill.

It's hard to say what to say to such nonsense. Ann seems to have gotten more right wing and less reasonable lately.; 9/10/09, 10:37 PM
Nichevo said...: Blogger doctorj2u said...

I could go through it line by line but you bore me.

doctorj2u...you lie!; 9/13/09, 8:04 PM