November 23, 2009

"But keep going, Ann. Debunk them all. With facts, not spin."

Andrew Sullivan is still giving me assignments.

So let me give him one. It's only fair. Andrew Sullivan, what if, with the same intensity and standards you've aimed at Palin, you went through the things Barack Obama has said and written? (Pick a segment of his career that is equivalent to the period you examined of Palin's.) What kind of a list would you end of with?

You say:
[S]omething is very seriously wrong. This is not about destroying anyone. It is about saving a system that perpetrated an error as huge as this one. And we cannot save this system until we fully understand the depth of the scandal in front of us: that this clinically delusional person had a good chance of having her finger on the nuclear button. And still does if she is not fully vetted and understood. I intend to keep doing that until the whole truth is in front of us.

If you don't want to pursue that truth wherever it takes us, read someone else.
I'm into pursuing the truth, which is why I propose that you test your judgment and style of analysis with the assignment I've proposed. I know this would be time consuming, and it will be extremely hard to work up the enthusiasm about it that welled up naturally over Palin.

So maybe others can help out. Let's try to put together an Obama list that equates as well as possible with Sullivan's Palin list. Then his assignment can be to reflect on his project of exposing Palin's lies and his conclusion that there is something truly different about her, something clinically delusional.

***

As for my assignment, I'll look at a couple more items from Sullivan's list tonight when I have some extra time. I'm not inclined to "debunk" them. I'm not Palin's defender. I will look at the items and say what I think, with an eye toward Sullivan's assertion: whether we are dealing with a person who is not just the usual politico but clinically delusional.

UPDATE: Sorry I didn't get around to doing a couple more items tonight. I guess some people would say I lied.

244 comments:

1 – 200 of 244   Newer›   Newest»
John Lynch said...

Arguing with a head case is a waste of time.

kent said...

This is not about destroying anyone. It is about saving a system that perpetrated an error as huge as this one.

"Andrew Sullivan is Ingrid Bergman in JOAN OF ARC!"

Lem said...

Andrew es un pendejo ;)

wv - masho

bagoh20 said...

Sully called someone a "clinically delusional person"? He's funny.

Larry J said...

I can't help but believe that someone who believes what Andrew Sullivan writes - and apparently believes himself - must be either incredibly stupid or insane, or perhaps both.

It isn't nice to make fun of the insane. Making fun of the stupid is allowed, though. If Andrew Sullivan isn't insane, he's the biggest moron this side of the Huffington Post and Daily Kos. Why should anyone pay any attention to such an idiot?

vbspurs said...

wv: dipsany.

Hell, I'm not even going to post a comment. Just the word verification WHICH STRANGELY is very very apropòs. Dipsany -- dealing with the mental health of a dipsomaniac.

Palladian said...

"Then his assignment can be to reflect on his project of exposing Palin's lies and his conclusion that there is something truly different about her, something clinically delusional. "

You know, I'm becoming less and less inclined to criticize people for suggesting that Sullivan has AIDS-related dementia since he is now apparently accusing Palin of not only faking her pregnancy (as if that wasn't bad enough) but of being clinically delusional. I'm not entirely sure he even knows what "clinically delusional" actually means, but it certainly sounds like a diagnosis. If the Atlantic finds no problems with one of their writers making wild accusations about the clinical condition and medical history of Sarah Palin, then why shouldn't we feel free to make the same sort of half-baked diagnoses of the physical and mental health of Mr Sullivan? So, internet diagnosticians, diagnose away. What's the matter with Andrew Sullivan?

miller said...

I am reluctant to call someone even "crazy" -- even though it's a pretty safe word to use -- because technically it requires a diagnosis by a professional.

Is A.S. a professional? If not, how does he presume to state Palin is "clinically" delusional?

I realize that one way to appear to be more important than I am is to use Important Magic Words, but really, he has no basis to say this.

Palladian said...

Andrew Sullivan is employed to write for The Atlantic, a publication which was founded by and once published such writers as Harriet Beecher Stowe, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr., and James Russell Lowell.

Think about that for a minute.

Lem said...

Andrew Sullivan, what if, with the same intensity and standards you've aimed at Palin, you went through the things Barack Obama has said and written?

Even if they dont (because they just will not choose to) why is it that a 'nobody' from Alaska is so fearsome?

You would think that if they were confident in their assertions about Palin they would be patient enough to wait and see her eventual demise..

But the fact that they are not .. that tells me something more eloquent than Sarah herself could ever muster.

God Allmighty I love it so!

Makem squirm Sarah .. just by showing up :P

wv mensi - watch it!

Meade said...

"half-baked diagnoses "

heh heh

vbspurs said...

Incidentally, this punch up of blogger egos is one of the reasons I knew I was never going to be a major blogger despite the time, energy and (immodestly) the brain matter to be one.

I've seen these battle royales happen with other bloggers, like that Southerner v. the ex-Lizard King, and I just realised I do not have the prickly ego to face down each and every comment made about me on the Blogosphere.

My model, however, is Glenn Reynolds. He's practically stately compared to the other major players in the Blogosphere.

How does he do it? Oh yeah. No commentary section.

Cheers,
Victoria

HelenParr said...

Half-baked Alaska.

Lem said...

So, internet diagnosticians, diagnose away. What's the matter with Andrew Sullivan?

Palladian is back! watch out!

Fred4Pres said...

Andrew Sullivan is acting like the tigers in Little Black Sambo, they end up spinning themselves into butter.

traditionalguy said...

AS is a classic psychotic. he defends his base refusal of the real Sarah Palin's existence by positing her as a cartoon character invented perfectly like Snow White was by Disney (and AS's Mother was to him). All of his charged untruths are measly and twisted misunderstandings based upon her inexact word usages on occaisions that he claims are super important. a true Snow White would be 100% perfect he says, and AS will now set about to prove "impirically" that Sarah Palin is not now, and has never been, the cartoon character Snow White. I am so glad that someone is committed to this all important task.

Palladian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fred4Pres said...

The Madness of King Andrew! Andrew wants the truth, because he knows the truth, with geometric logic. Sullivan will pursue Trig Palin forever for stealing that loaf of bread!


Andrew Sullivan is acting like the tigers in Little Black Sambo, they end up spinning themselves into butter.

Palladian said...

What do you want to bet that when Sullivan returns home at night and puts the beagles to bed, he slips on his CPAP mask and connects the hose to a tank of nitrous oxide, inhales deeply and shrieks "Mommy! Mommy! Baby wants to fuck!" before stuffing a piece of fabric clandestinely cut by a Sullivan operative from one of Palin's returned RNC-funded skirts into his mouth and smacking the shit out of his trembling boyfriend who's unwillingly donning the "costume".

Palladian said...

Meade, in Sullivan's case I think it would be completely baked diagnoses.

wv: unfacts (!!!) Really! What more could I ad to that?!

vbspurs said...

TradGuy wrote:

ll of his charged untruths are measly and twisted misunderstandings based upon her inexact word usages on occaisions that he claims are super important.

The sad thing about this is that if he IS sick in the head, with a deep fixation on Sarah Palin, he is practically begging Ann to help him keep it going. Why?

Let's see.

Frankly, I think he read the Palin autobio (I'm almost finished) and was thrown into extreme emotional disarray. She is a feisty, emotional but not unbalanced woman. There is an enormous well of sanity about her, which is hard to understand for people like Sullivan who expect her to be witchy and flailing.

I suspect he is desperate for her to live up to his preconceived notions of her, that buttoned-up, harsh Christianity he seems to imagine she represents.

Sullivan is using Ann to giving him a second wind in his obsession. I think he's plum wore (sic) out.

Cheers,
Victoria

Joan said...

There are lists of Obama's lies all over the place. I came across this one a couple of days ago when I was looking for something completely unrelated. Most of the entries here qualify as what I consider "embroidery", stretching the truth, not outright intent-to-deceive lies -- but that's a generous reading. Obama calling himself a "constitutional law professor," to some people, really was a lie and not just verbal shorthand. (Why couldn't he have just said he teaches constitutional law?) This list is more substantive than Sullivan's but the two lists share the same gotcha! quality. Ick.

LOL wv: osizatol - Oh, is that all?

vbspurs said...

wv: unfacts (!!!) Really! What more could I ad to that?!

Dude, I just got modocs. More doctors? More documents? More Maureen Dowd? The mind reels.

Scott said...

Sullivan, on a mission from God.

How grandiose.

I can't find a specific reference to "clinical delusionality" in the DSM IV. Under Cannibis-related disorders, 292.11 is "Induced psychotic disorder, with delusions," but since I was spanking other people in this blog for playing parlour psychiatrist, I won't go there. I'm merely mentioning it so that Sullivan, if he reads the comments, may examine it further for his own benefit. ;-)

In any case, Jeez Louise, Madam Sullivan is getting a bit shirty! I sense that he's feeling a bit cornered by the blowback on his Palin fetish.

More to the point, he doesn't seem to be able to distinguish opinion from truth. The fact that he flings around fake medical terms like "clinical delusionality" doesn't help him make his case.

As for Sarah Palin's finger on that mythical button, I am worried far more about Vice President Biden's twitchy button finger should the Dissembler In Chief meet an untimely demise. Biden is a man who has been caught out in numerous undisputed factual inexactitudes over his career -- ones bad enough to scuttle his own presidential ambitions. In the Senate, Biden was harmless. As a president, he would be frightening.

Sullivan vs. Althouse would make a great Bloggingheads match-up!

Aaron said...

I said this in the last sullivan/palin thread, but its worth repeating:

> Am i the only person who gets the feeling that Sullivan's chief complaint against Palin comes down to this:

> "Ew! A girl!"

> Just sayin'.

I will add, that there is a unique level of venom that the left has for a sexy, conservative woman.

AJ Lynch said...

Kent:

Funny but I got the image of Althouse as Joan of Arc lancing the boil that is Andrew Sullivan.

Lem said...

If we didnt know better you would think Sarah Palin was Joan of Arc.

Oh please God let them build her up into one .. lord knows a real one is not comming ;)

Can we make Palin a Joan of Arc .. maybe a little Joan.

I want somebody to do battle .. if its Palin.. so be it!

RWGibson said...

One of the difficulties you're going to have in "fact-checking" Sully's list of Palin "lies" is that when he first assembled them, he pretty much too as gospel published reports and then compared them to Palin's accounts of the same incidents without often second-sourcing the published reports. He's not an actual reporter who has an editor he's got to run his stuff by.

One of his list of Palin "lies" includes her statements about the infamous RNC purchased wardrobe for the Republican Convention. The NYT recently ran a story with the person hired to buy the stuff. I dunno if he's gone back over that new information and compared it to his entry written over a year ago to see how it stacks up now, but if he has, I've not seen a blog post about it...and of course that would take a lot more actual work than simply taking some other reporter's word for it...

RWG (but one of his other two selves could probably do it)

DADvocate said...

...I do not have the prickly ego to face down each and every comment made about me on the Blogosphere.

Nor I. I wonder why Sullivan cares so much what Ann thinks about him and his meanderings.

Ann's a tease of sorts. She knows how to phrase things in such a manner as to call into question someone else's motives and actions in an enticing manner. Good traits for an attorney or blogger. Sullivan can't win this battle and it kills him to know so.

vbspurs said...

Aaron quoted:

> "Ew! A girl!"

> Just sayin'.


LOL!

...worse. A girl with power.

Woman is bad enough for certain types of misogynists, but woman on top is a particularly oppressive nightmare.

"She's got teeth down there!" type nightmare.

Meade said...

"She is a feisty, emotional but not unbalanced woman. There is an enormous well of sanity about her, which is hard to understand for people like Sullivan who expect her to be witchy and flailing."

I had to reread that. Thought Victoria was talking about Althouse at first.

Quayle said...

If lies are worth pointing out at all - if they are really a bad thing - then any person that lies is worth pointing out as well.

But Andrew seems to have this weird definition of a lie that somehow involves looking at the person.

What is willfully delusional is to take account of the person when you decide to root out lies.

Lem said...

Going Rouge..
Sounds better all the time.

Do we have the guts that Sarah had to go rouge?

vbspurs said...

DADvocate, good comments. I think Ann is really the only big blogger paying attention to Sullivan at that level. Most make a comment and go to other topics. Because Ann has a big ego, she takes every challenge as they come and meets it with the full force of her personality.

Incidentally, I didn't realise that Bloggingheads.tv had a forum section. I read the Michelle Goldberg v. Althouse commentaries, and I think people are starting to "get" Ann. One person said she is masterful in picking out holes in arguments, and provoking others to lose it when they become frustrated in not being able to defend their positions.

That's it, people. Finally you understand...

vbspurs said...

Heh, Meade. YES! Good one.

Kirby Olson said...

The Soviet Union always put political opponents into the nuthouse.

Palin as Sakharov?

Kirby Olson said...

Also, funny bit from Meade.

AllenS said...

Maybe Sullivan did a lot of LSD when he was younger and he's now having flashbacks. That's my diagnosis.

Lem said...

I think Ann is really the only big blogger paying attention to Sullivan at that level.

The way I see it is that there is no way Andrew would have gone after the other female candidate Hillary Clinton and gotten away relatively scott free.

Andrew went after Palin so fearless because he thought he could get away with it.

Republicans wince at the sight of a television show.

I think Althouse reacted as a real feminist would and should. The travesty will hopefully become more apparent as time goes on.

Nomilk said...

"Off with her head!" shouted the Sultana of Sodom.

traditionalguy said...

Lem...It'sthe female impersonators that go Rouge. The already females by birth have to go Rogue. The McCain campaign kept accusing her of talking off the message during the campaign and called that "Going Rogue" on the Campaign experts. She said in the Rogue book that there was no plan in place to get off of on those subjects that they accused her of messing up against the campaign's plan. Somebody is covering up. The McCain gang most likely are the ones covering up.

edutcher said...

Ann said...

I'm not Palin's defender.

I'll say it again, Ann, for someone who claims she isn't Miss Sarah's defender, you're doing a lot of it.

Careful, or Andy will start staking out your uterus :)

vbspurs said...

Dude, I just got modocs.

What do California Indians have to do with this - and how did you get them?

Inquiring minds are very curious ;D

WV "watiz" Precise mthod of interrogation, as, "Watiz happening, my brother?".

miller said...

Part of me suspects the problem is this:

Sullivan is obsessed with Palin.
Palin doesn't know - and doesn't care - that Sullivan is alive.

garage mahal said...

I can't believe I'm obsessing over someone else's obsession!

bagoh20 said...

"I had to reread that. Thought Victoria was talking about Althouse at first."

"Ew! A girl!"

"I wonder why Sullivan cares so much what Ann thinks about him and his meanderings."


I see a pattern: Sully hates women or there is a reason we never see Palin and Ann together.

Meade, you lucky dog.

rhhardin said...

To be clinically delusional you'd have to be lying down.

SMGalbraith said...

Last year Sullivan said America was a "thinly-disguised military dictatorship."

Military dictatorship. Thinly-diguised.

This year he's on a crusade to save the system. The "military dictatorial" one.

Yeah, I say it's time to pull the plug. I will.

Shanna said...

clinically delusional person

Wow.

This is not about destroying anyone. It is about saving a system that perpetrated an error as huge as this one.

I don't agree with the premise but if I did...um...Sarah Palin LOST! WTF is the huge error here?

Treacle said...

Obama lied when he said he visited 57 states.

Obama lied when he said no family making less than $250,000 annually "will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

Obama lied when he said at a New Hampshire town meeting in August 2009 "I have not said that I was a single payer supporter".

Lem said...

Trad.. Mac served the country when he was called and as much as i like to question his votes in the senate i cant really be too hard on him. As somebody said about him - His a fine man.

I will say this though.. remember how Bush 43 was not all that?.. Bush 43 disposed of Mac very easily ..

I'm just saying. Maybe Mac never had it. you know the it. the fire in the belly.

Florida said...

Hey Ann,

How much does The Atlantic pay you to link to Andrew Sullivan's column?

miller said...

I used to have a subscription to The Atlantic, years ago, in the 70s. I enjoyed it.

But recently it and The New Republic have gone off the rails.

Meade said...

Obama was only kidding when he said he'd have Guantanamo closed by the end of the year

Meade said...

Bill Clinton was only joshing when he said "I did not have sex with that woman [who works as a subordinate to me in the White House]"

bagoh20 said...

There is that whole oath of office lie about upholding the constitution.

Jason (the commenter) said...

If you don't want to pursue that truth wherever it takes us, read someone else.

I remember when Sullivan was trying to make Althouse delete comments he didn't like, on her blog. Now he's telling people they aren't allowed to read what he openly posts on the internet.

If Sullivan wants to post crazy stuff, Althouse has every right to point out, to anyone who will listen, how crazy his writing sounds.

I understand why she is having a hard time. If Sullivan admits what he said was wrong, he would have to consider himself a piece of shit. And I do not use that word lightly. Let's never forget the pain I'm sure he caused to Palin's entire family. He would have to consider himself the lowest piece of shit on the face of the earth.

I think this is why everyone is finding so much resistance on the part of Sullivan. Admitting he was wrong would destroy his self-image.

hdhouse said...

well meade, maybe just maybe obama had no idea of the depth of the mess bush and cheney created down there.

some knots are harder to untie than others. george just moved on to another pile and left yet another huge mess. but you know that don't you.

Pogo said...

Sullivan so despises all things uterine that he would not join The Atlantic Monthly until they shortened it to The Atlantic.

miller said...

Ah, Pogo - subtle!

Pogo said...

"maybe just maybe obama had no idea of the depth of the mess bush and cheney created"

That means he's an even dumber dumb ass than I originally thought.

Criminey. "Gee, guys, this is all so much harder than I thought! "

You say that in his favor??
Whatta maroon.

Nomilk said...

"And still does if she is not fully vetted and understood."


Queen Mary Jane Milky Loads has the audacity of hope to actually use the phrase "fully vetted and understood"!?!?!

I mean Obama is by far the least vetted and least well-known president (not vice-presidential candidate, mind you) in U.S. history. Say what you will about his predecessors, but they were established public figures and known quantities.

During the campaign, a rather obvious meme went the rounds that McCain was the Manchurian Candidate. And in the bald facts, the resemblance of his candidacy to the fiction was uncanny.

But upon deeper reflection, it was Obama who was the true surd in the 2008 campaign. Born out of wedlock and partially raised overseas in Southeast Asia--not as a military brat or diplomatic dependent, but in more academic-hippy circumstances. A graduate of an elite university, but refusing to release his grades or papers. HLR president and lecturer in law, but with not a shred of scholarship to his name. Community organizer? Denizen of a black nationalist church? 'Nuff said. Never won an election without some dubious advantage. How many times did he vote present and where are his Illinois State Senate papers? Not a day of executive, military, or business experience, but seeking the job of CEO of USA. I mean, as Bill Clinton pointed out, it's a "fairy tale"--and not the bright, shiny, Disney kind, I mean the real, dark Grimm Bros. kind.

And yet where does the Sultana of Sodom concentrate his fire? On vetting a private citizen--and her children. Imagine if Sasha and Malia were subjected to 1/100 the abuse that the Palin children have been subjected to. There might very well be riots in the streets.

Shame, shame, shame!


WV: ozesse: the "being" of Oz: i.e., the essence of the modern fairy tale nonpareil.

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
miller said...

He's not lying.

He's simply not telling the truth.

Maybe we should fund more teleprompters nationwide so he'll speak more cogently.

(And I notice that the usual trolls aren't around trying to defend the Liar-in-Chief.)

Jason (the commenter) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Lem...I agree that McCain was a courageous fighter and has my respect. The changing world had made his tactics of pleasing the NYT and his media buddies a lot less valuable of a tactic, and against Obama who owned the media it turned out to be worth Nothing. The loser in this election forgot any need to support his VP who he had snatched up to help support him with his base. He never defended her and designated her as the fall girl when the ship sank. That's an old Navy tradition.

Lem said...

(spelling prob b4 sorry)

Obama was only kidding when he said he'd have Guantanamo closed by the end of the year

Good thing you mentioned it Meade Mi amigo.

We know Alhouse will not .. you know sing Na Na Na na.. Na Na Na na Hey Hey goodbye.. since she's a law professor and all.

But could you at least convince her to let you sing and celebrate a victory of sorts in her staed so that we may also enjoy Na Na Na na.. Na Na Na na Hey Hey goodbye ;)

Come Meade I know you can do it!

Meade said...

Obama had his fingers crossed behind his back and he never did say "cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye" when he said we are the ones Andrew Sullivan has been waiting for.

Almost Ali said...

Sounds more like co-dependency, i.e. Althouse vs. Sullivan.

Meade said...

When Obama said "yes we can" he didn't mean us. He meant the other we's.

Kirby Olson said...

"Clinically delusional" depends on who's running the clinic.

Lem said...

The loser in this election forgot any need to support his VP who he had snatched up to help support him with his base. He never defended her and designated her as the fall girl when the ship sank. That's an old Navy tradition.

I know.. I'll never forgive him for letting her just twist in the wind like that.

I think Sarah herself (what I get from the book and what Althouse faults her a little for) never expected to be so alone.. abandoned.

My defence for her is there is really no "how to win an election" manual.. I think its different every time.. and I think she did the best she could. God bless her.

Lem said...

Meade is on a roll.

purrupun piiishhh

Quayle said...

Obama lied when he said he didn't want to be president of Red America.

Henry said...

Sullivan: And we cannot save this system until we fully understand the depth of the scandal in front of us: that this clinically delusional person had a good chance of having her finger on the nuclear button.

Sullivan is living a nightmare. In his nightmare, Sarah Palin is Jack D. Ripper and Sullivan, doughty and undeterred, is Group Captain Lionel Mandrake.

It's a thankless job.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Do I look all rancid and clotted? You look at me, Jack. Eh? Look, eh? And I drink a lot of water, you know. I'm what you might call a water man, Jack - that's what I am. And I can swear to you, my boy, swear to you, that there's nothing wrong with my bodily fluids. Not a thing, Jackie.

Nomilk said...

Here's a nice primer on the lies of Barack Hussein Obama.

Read it and weep.

John Lynch said...

The experience of people who spend a lot of time arguing with conspiracy theorists is that, in the end, it's a waste of time. No one is convinced, no one changes their mind.

Andrew Sullivan has fallen into the abyss. Maybe he'll crawl out, but I doubt he'll ever admit he was wrong. Hopefully he'll just stop posting about Sarah Palin.

Sullivan personalizes everything. He's always been like that. Back when he was a conservative he had little awards to give to people he disagreed with. I think that's why he picks so many fights with other bloggers. It's just his personality.

vbspurs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freeman Hunt said...

When Obama said "yes we can" he didn't mean us. He meant the other we's.

Somewhere in this country, there is an immigrant named We. Obama has total faith in him.

Nomilk said...

Sullivan is living a nightmare. In his nightmare, Sarah Palin is Jack D. Ripper and Sullivan, doughty and undeterred, is Group Captain Lionel Mandrake.


And remember: Mandrake had been subject to torture (involuntarily, of course).

Joey B. said...

I'm not inclined to "debunk" them.

Duh.

I'm not Palin's defender.

Of course you are!

First you were a fan, now you are a defender -- albeit a dishonest one, who never acknolwedges what she is doing.

But it's obvious, professor.

Freeman Hunt said...

If you don't want to pursue that truth wherever it takes us, read someone else.

He meant to write:

If you don't want to pursue that truth into the dark and treacherous abyssal depths of the catamenial female womb, read someone else

Lem said...

BTW @4:44 I was referring to a bet that Althouse made that Obama would not be able to close Gitmo as he so fanfariangly (pompously) promised.

there is no such a word 'fanfariangly'.. i made it up.. Fanfaria = fanfare thats what i was thinking.

wv - duess

edutcher said...

Rush said it: everything The Zero says has an expiration date.

Treacle said...

Obama lied when he said he visited 57 states.

You don't understand. He reminded us of the 10 Canadian provinces we picked up when Richard Montgomery and Benedict Arnold and Dan Morgan conquered Canada in 1775.

...Or was it the Mexican states we bought as part of the Gadsden Purchase, in addition to the ones we occupied as a result of the Mexican War?

vbspurs said...

Miller wrote:

I used to have a subscription to The Atlantic, years ago, in the 70s. I enjoyed it.

I remember when I was young that our household had Harper's and Atlantic as our commode reading. Now, Atlantic has gone to the crapper.

In a way, I am very upset that the New York Times, Atlantic, hell even Cosmo and Playboy are shallow imitations of their heydeys in the 70s and 80s. They were the magazines I aspired to read once I was old enough to understand what they were saying -- now that I am, they bore me.

Cheers,
Victoria

Lem said...

i dont know how to conjugate fanfare.

there there..

AC245 said...

Still no dispute over Joey B./Floydster's expertise on predictable and boring.

Lem said...

Hey, do any of you guys watch Mad Men? Sorry for the OT, but I just finished watching the first episode of Season 1, and I'm loving it.

Thank you for ruin it .. thank you very much Vic ;)

i'm kidding.

Pogo said...

Rather soon, Sullivan will be a verb.

vbspurs said...

Thank you for ruin it .. thank you very much Vic ;)

Heh, Lem. No spoilers here, promise!

vbspurs said...

Sullivan is living a nightmare. In his nightmare, Sarah Palin is Jack D. Ripper and Sullivan, doughty and undeterred, is Group Captain Lionel Mandrake.

LOL! What makes it funny is that I thought for a moment Henry had written "Sarah Palin is Jack Tripper", which of course would make Andrew Sullivan the sex-obsessed, wannabe hipster, homophobic Mr. Roper.

PERFECT.

BJM said...

Once again to his detriment; Sullivan leaps into the Althousian vortex.

Chip Ahoy said...

Here. Take this spun list comprised more of opinion than of fact that I've painstakingly and arduously compiled and set yourself to work debunking these items I've listed in deep delusion, but do debunk them with facts and not with spin and in this manner it will be my terms that set the discussion.

What a nuanced way for Ann to say, "Bite me, Bozo:" Set yourself to work listing something useful instead, using the same criteria you used listing something utterly not useful considering the erred system of which you speak has already elevated the One to a position of presidency of the United States, but failed to elevate the object of your obsession to vice presidency, and still you find requires such close detailed attention and fierce fixing.

Please please, take a long deep colon cleanse and get over yourself.

Of course you realize, this can be alleviated with a nice breakfast of fried eggs and rewarmed risotto.

Sofa King said...

Obama was only kidding when he said he'd have Guantanamo closed by the end of the year

Obviously he meant that ironically. You just lack the nuance to understand him.

Pogo said...

"To sullivan": to commit career suicide over a stupid or delusional crusade;
e.g.,
Tom Cruise sullivaned on Oprah.
Captain Ahab sullivaned about a whale.

William said...

Mencken defined puritanism as the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time. Sullivan is a puritan. He is bitter that Palin has had the vaginal orgasm that he will never have. I think we all know what he means when he refers to Palin's finger on the button.

miller said...

And given that you so easily try to take on someone else's identity (witness your feeble attempts to spoof me), you might want to consider you are spoiling your own case; these right-wingnuts that you so desperately seem to need to confront just might be you using another moniker.

You are hoisted by your own petard.

Nomilk said...

He is bitter that Palin has had the vaginal orgasm that he will never have. I think we all know what he means when he refers to Palin's finger on the button.


Wouldn't that be the other kind?

Lem said...

and another thing.

I think i would be an Althusian if Althouse and Sully 'got along'.

But the fact that Althouse does not let Andrew get away with the shit he tries to get away with makes me an Althusian for life.

I'm a lifer.

Col. Milquetoast said...

SMGalbraith said... Last year Sullivan said America was a "thinly-disguised military dictatorship."

post a link or we'll assume your pants are on fire.

Simon Kenton said...

"It is about saving a system that perpetrated an error as huge as this one."

Not getting the point here. If the system perpetrates errors as huge as this one, why save it? Why not turn its operation over to our kind of people, who don't make this kind of error?

anon2 said...

Wouldn't the better comparison be Palin v. Biden over a similar span of time? I wonder if Sullivan considers all of Biden's misstatements "lies".

section9 said...

Poor Andy....

He just wants a Mommy.

Sarah! Give him a hug!

wv=bator, as in, "Sullivan will be exiled to Ulan Bator after this is all done...."

victoria said...

Edutcher, quoting Rush, really?? Really? Throwing up a little in my mouth at the thought that anyone would quote Rush to anyone halfway sane.

Vicki from Pasadena

knox said...

Palladian is back! watch out!

He wasn't "retreating," he was "reloading," to borrow a phrase.

SMGalbraith said...

My error: I said Sullivan stated that America was a "thinly-disguised military dictatorship."

He actually said that America was a "thinly-veiled military dictatorship."

Full quote:
"Whatever else this [the US] is, it is not a constitutional democracy. It is a thinly-veiled military dictatorship… al Qaeda is winning battles every week now. And they are winning them because their aim of gutting Western liberty is shared by the president of the United States."

Andrew Sullivan:
http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/09/legalizing_tyra.html

miller said...

SMG - those are so totally different they are LIES!!!!!ELEVENTY

Which proves Sullivan isn't acting like a loon.

Or something.

John Lynch said...

Yeah, funny how to some people "democracy" only exists when their guy wins.

Lem said...

I found the video of Obama announcing the shutdown of Gitmo about a year ago..

I dont think so! lol

executive oder ticker tape parade.

wv - expintes - a rooster that had some work done

Jim said...

Some recent vice presidents:
Spiro Agnew
Dan Quayle
Walter Mondale
Slow Joe Biden

I fail to see how SP could have been any worse than these bozos. Especially compared to the current resident of USNO.
Yet our Repbulic has survived.

Only in the AIDS-demented mind of Javert - oops - Andrew Sullivan - could an inconsequential figure like SP become such a loathesome object. And I say that as a reader of 8 years of his blog. When Bush came out against gay marriage in 2004, some gasket blew in Andrew's brain that everything Bush = BAD and everything not Bush =GOOD.
And he sees SP as somehow the inheritor of the BUSH hatred.

Sad.

knox said...

Well, one big lie is that he attended Wright's church for 20 years, yet claims that he "never heard" any of Wright's "God DAMN AmeriKKKa!!" message.

As I've said before, I don't believe Obama himself thinks that way, but he never heard it? Yeah, right.

ricpic said...

He [Sullivan] is bitter that Palin has had the vaginal orgasm that he will never have.

Leaving homosexuality aside, all men are jealous of the vaginal orgasm.

knox said...

"To sullivan": to commit career suicide over a stupid or delusional crusade;

The sad thing is, it won't be career suicide. People will praise him and take him more seriously than ever. Especially if Palin's popularity continues to grow. "Fighting the good fight" and all that.

knox said...

... by "people" I mean those in the media.

kent said...

I wonder how Sullivan might characterize a sitting Vice-President (Biden) intentionally and routinely lying about the circumstances of his first wife's death, solely for the purposes of exploiting same.

Speaking of "fingers on the button," and all.

Just as a f'rinstance, mind.

Jim said...

One other thing that I also find sad:

the fact that a gay guy with AIDS who chastises other gay men for their willful and insatiable hedonism has to put an ad in some trashy gay magazine and advertise both his availability for promiscuous sex as well as his love of receiving "milky loads".

Therefore, no great cause he promotes resonates with me anymore. I could give a shit that he is gay. It is that he has outed himself as a hypocritical person with zero self-control.

Lem said...

When Bush came out against gay marriage in 2004, some gasket blew in Andrew's brain that everything Bush = BAD and everything not Bush =GOOD.

I remember notably how he tried to use some Luciane Goldberg slight towards him on her blog and tried to build it up as thought it was some kind of conspiracy to drive him out of the 'conservative inner circle' he had been a part of all along.

He tried to put himself up as a martyr of some kind.

At first i fell for it of course.. little did i know what Andrew had in mind.

SMGalbraith said...

SMG - those are so totally different they are LIES!!!!!ELEVENTY

See what Sarah Palin is doing to us??!! She's turning me into a delusional liar.

Let's pray that Sullivan can save the Republic from her clutches.

SMGalbraith said...

That Sullivan link re military dictatorship is dead (I guess).

Try this and scroll down:
http://ultrabrown.com/posts/the-smoking-corpse-of-habeas-corpus

It has the Sullivan quote with the same link.

Trust me (hey, this is the internet where trust is inviolable), he said it.

Blue@9 said...

Sullivan's crazy obsession would be understandable if he managed to, you know, uncover something genuinely interesting or shocking about her. As it stands, he hasn't discovered crap about her. She is what she is, a somewhat banal and intellectually-lazy conservative politician with decent looks and an interesting life history.

If this were the 19th century, Sullivan would be the crazy guy who sells everything and moves to some mountain out west, convinced that there's gold there, convinced that he "knows there's something there." But everyone else is shaking his head, wondering just how this bright guy managed to go bonkers, and would he please start bathing again.

Lem said...

Holy cow..

I heard that story about Joe's first wife killed by a drunk driver a number of times.

This is the first time I've heard/read this version.

wtf?

Jason (the commenter) said...

If Andrew Sullivan ever comes to terms with the evil things he's done, I think that could lead to some interesting reading.

The kind of fame he has attracted now though is just disgusting, and I feel sorry for him. Who wants to live like this? I wish he would just come back to the world, be a real human being and take responsibility for what he has done.

Jason (the commenter) said...

I'm not angry about the things Sullivan says anymore. He's sad and pathetic; like a homeless drunk you see sleeping on the side of the street. He's not worth anger.

Lem said...

Forget Palin.. just say anybody with an R or an I in front of the name they would not be allowed to put that out there..

Hell.. remember how Al Gore got caught repeatedly sometimes exaggerating and sometimes just making things up out of whole cloth!

The MSM report it. What makes Joe special?

Jason (the commenter) said...

Maybe Althouse is wrong to comment on Andrew Sullivan. He has nothing left. He only has delusions.

Hopefully his private life can give him some conciliation.

JAL said...

AS "It is about saving a system that perpetrated an error as huge as this one."

Mmmmmm. Only way this makes sense if he means by NOT electing McCain-Palin?

Since they didn't win, I'd say from his perspective the system worked.

No?

Yes?

wv epremis
intenet premise
(AKA as Sullivan's obsession)

Patm said...

Every freaking word Sullivan wrote about Palin in that excerpt Althouse quoted could be said about Obama, right down to delusions and his pre-president shield design and his post-president bait-and-switch.

I'd like to know what Sullivan (and the mainstream press that is ignoring the story) has to say about this abuse of power - one the Obama's minor ones:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/295063.php

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Palladian said...

You know, I'm becoming less and less inclined to criticize people for suggesting that Sullivan has AIDS-related dementia...


Correct me if I'm in error here, but didn't you flame me just last night for saying pretty much the same thing?

As long as you, too, are opening a psych practice, maybe you can explain this dream I keep having where I beat the shit out of a hypocrite.

Patm said...

When Bush came out against gay marriage in 2004, some gasket blew in Andrew's brain that everything Bush = BAD and everything not Bush =GOOD.

Really, that is the truth. Sullivan LOVED Bush, would have died for Bush; Bush was the warm, loving father Sully was missing. Then Daddy came out against gay marriage and Sullivan, rejected by the beloved father figure, literally lost his mind.

He used to be such a good writer. It's so sad to see what happened to him.

SMGalbraith said...

Mmmmmm. Only way this makes sense if he means by NOT electing McCain-Palin?

Yeah, McCain selected her, not the "system".

Then the "system" rejected her.

Polls show that more than 65% of the public don't believe she's qualified to serve in national office.

Seems to me that somebody else's "system" need repair.

Strawberries anyone?

ricpic said...

Second Chance

Though best plucked apples soon decay
The blemished plucked are tossed away,
Where thrown they rot into the ground
And so once more the source is found.

Kirby Olson said...

Name 3 three things that are true that Obama ever said.

Palladian said...

"As long as you, too, are opening a psych practice, maybe you can explain this dream I keep having where I beat the shit out of a hypocrite."

Probably means you need to get laid more often.

Palladian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"The kind of fame he has attracted now though is just disgusting, and I feel sorry for him. Who wants to live like this? I wish he would just come back to the world, be a real human being and take responsibility for what he has done."

Michael Jackson wasn't able to do it and I doubt Sullivan will either.

I do wonder: did Sullivan's descent into insanity begin when he hooked up with his bearded mini-me, the artist guy? Often people are profoundly influenced by their spouse, and not always in a positive way.

Also, the more famous someone becomes, the more insulated they become. The insularity is death to a creative person. Sullivan basically treks from Washington D.C. to Provincetown and back and probably moves among exclusively wealthy, powerful people who (naturally) all have the same opinions and beliefs. When a creative person gets closed into a loop of intellectual deadness and spiritual suffocation that such a life necessarily engenders the consequences are often dire; mental and artistic health are placed in serious jeopardy. One only needs to look to Hollywood (or to the aforementioned Michael Jackson) for examples.

Hemingway found the exit from that loop at the end of a shotgun barrel. Sullivan may not even know he's effectively in prison. But deep inside there is profound despair, and it is blooming, as it usually does, in a profoundly foul manner.

Original Mike said...

Is Sullivan still supporting himself from reader contributions? If he is, how well is he doing?

If he's doing well, then I think everything is clear.

m00se said...

You want to talk aboue delusional, look in to Sully's explaination of Obama's "Mushy Steel". Talk about torturing the truth to fit an absurd reality is like "advancing to the rear". He didn't fail - you just misunderstood the true genius of him running at a full tilt boogie away from battle.

Obama believers like Sully judge his failures by the opposition's failures - Obama isn't failing because the GOP sucks so bad. By comparison - he's a winner! Sort of like how he justifies SSM.

Palladian said...

"Correct me if I'm in error here, but didn't you flame me just last night for saying pretty much the same thing?"

I said that I was becoming less and less inclined to criticize such comments. Currently, depending upon the source of the comment, the inclination remains.

Palladian said...

"Name 3 three things that are true that Obama ever said."

1. "I won"

2.

kent said...

Sullivan LOVED Bush, would have died for Bush; Bush was the warm, loving father Sully was missing.

Ah. Suddenly, it's all finaly starting to become clear (beginning at 00:30). ;)

ricpic said...

Death by insulation;
An overheated house:
Better wild copulation
Than suffocating spouse.

chickenlittle said...

Sullivan must fancy himself to be like the madman in the famous parable:

Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. 'I have come too early,' he said then; 'my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars---and yet they have done it themselves.'

Nietzsche--The Gay Science

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Palladian said...

...the inclination remains.


Weak tea, Palladian, weak tea.

knox said...

Here's another Obama lie, although it's not really provable, I find it laughable:

When he said the ACORN scandal was "not something I've followed closely."

Now I don't believe that ACORN stole the election for him, but it is a profoundly corrupt organization, andt Obama's ties run deep and wide--probably more than any of us yet know.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I have a theory that if the media weren't so in love with Barack, ACORN could be his Watergate.

ricpic said...

Trim That Moustache!

They did the deed but didn't know it.
Then off to the beer garden they stomped
To jeer at the crackpot poet.

Jason (the commenter) said...

chickenlittle: Sullivan must fancy himself to be like the madman in the famous parable:

He probably does need to see himself as some sort of heroic figure. I can imagine what it must be like for those around him; hopefully they don't have to hear about it all the time.

(That comparison was horribly inappropriate by the way, but I wont point out why here.)

Almost Ali said...

Sounds like some of you are still struggling with the parable of the duck.

Acorn, Obama, duck.

ricpic said...

...but I won't point out why here.

Snob.

Or tease.

Or both.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Sullivan is a tiny bag of penises.

Seriously. If you are going to make a list lies that you claim are being perpetrated, it is incumbent upon YOU to prove that they are lies by presenting facts.

Merely shouting liar Liar LIAR while the veins in your neck pop out....isn't convincing anyone.

JAL said...

JAL Mmmmmm. Only way this makes sense if he means by NOT electing McCain-Palin?

SMG Yeah, McCain selected her, not the "system".

Then the "system" rejected her.


So that's my point.

Sullivan "It is about saving a system that perpetrated an error as huge as this one."

What is the error of the system? It "worked." (And therefore how can this be the motivating factor for his current [insane] beahvior?)

He is acting like they (she - Palin) won.

(And Biden was "selected" also. For reasons no one dares speak, apparently. Unless they lie, that is.)

AlphaLiberal said...

Althouse deflects.

Ann the point is you picked a very easy Palin lie to "debunk." And you wound up saying pretty much the same thing Sullivan did.

Then you prove unable to "debunk" any others and set off after Obama.

Typical wingnut.

Photog714 said...

Seriously, Ann, why do you waste so much time with people like this?

Think of all the time and energy you've spent jousting with that airhead Michelle Goldberg and that Freudian stir-fry Sullivan. And what has it accomplished?

Their minds (to abuse that term) aren't changed. Has your mind been changed? Nobody who followed it all has been changed: Michelle is still a ditz and Sullivan is still an emotional shish kabob.

Why do you bother, Ann?

Why. Do. You. Bother. ?

John said...

I think Ann quotes Sullivan and argues with him as a way of making Alpha Liberal and Jeremy seem thoughtful and smart by comparison. Granted, those two's combined IQs don't hit a hundred. But, they don't quite measure up to Sullivan for sheer lunacy.

AlphaLiberal said...

DBQ:

Merely shouting liar Liar LIAR while the veins in your neck pop out....isn't convincing anyone. .

That's not what Sullivan did, however. He made a reasoned and researched case which Althouse handled superficially.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

That's not what Sullivan did, however. He made a reasoned and researched case which Althouse handled superficially.

Where are his facts or refuting evidence. All I see is that he says she lies.

Prove your case or STFU

John said...

"That's not what Sullivan did, however. He made a reasoned and researched case which Althouse handled superficially."

In bizzaro world maybe. He made a completely hyperbolic case which at best pointed out typical fluffing any polician does and at worst making bizzare acusation.

Sullivan is convinced that Palin faked a pregnancy. That says all you need to know about whether he should be taken seriously. Even if some of his other points are valid, who cares. The guy who lives in a dumpster down behind the 7-11 occasionally makes sense to. But, I don't go around quoting him as an authority.

ricpic said...

Why do you bother, Ann?

Excess energy?

mccullough said...

Not a Sarah Palin fan, but did Sullivan spend any time, at all, looking into John Edwards back in 2004 (or 2005)?

Edwards is a way bigger lightweight than Palin. Given the Kerry ticket electoral total, John Edwards was a lot closer to becoming one heartbeat away than Palin.

AlphaLiberal said...

IOW, John, we're "pooty pants."

I think that sums up your point and is in terms you can grasp.

AlphaLiberal said...

DBQ:

Where are his facts or refuting evidence. All I see is that he says she lies.

Prove your case or STFU
.

No problem, but you need to know how to use "hyperlinks."

Go to this page on Sully's blog. Or, if you don't understand hyperlink:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/michelle-goldberg-gets-it.html

With me so far? Now, read down the page where here says: "Palin lied..." and for every one of those, the "lied" is what we call a "hyperlink." MOve your mouse or it and the click it.

See? It opens up a new page that provides "facts" and "refuting evidence." You may need to "click" on a "hyperlink" to see further supporting information.

Here is a small list of the lies he lays out there:

Palin lied when she said the dismissal of her public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, had nothing to do with his refusal to fire state trooper Mike Wooten; in fact, the Branchflower Report concluded that she repeatedly abused her power when dealing with both men.

Palin lied when she repeatedly claimed to have said, "Thanks, but no thanks" to the Bridge to Nowhere; in fact, she openly campaigned for the federal project when running for governor.

Palin lied when she denied that Wasilla's police chief and librarian had been fired; in fact, both were given letters of termination the previous day.

Palin lied when she wrote in the NYT that a comprehensive review by Alaska wildlife officials showed that polar bears were not endangered; in fact, email correspondence between those scientists showed the opposite.


It's a long list. Althouse picks one and then rests her case and goes on the attack against Obama, proving only her assimilation by the right wing.

John said...

Alpha,

Only an idiot makes common cause with someone as derranged as Sullivan. The fact that you will defend him just shows that you will defend anyone on the left. And it thus gives people on here more reason to ignore you, as if they needed anymore.

Let me say it again in simple terms that perhaps someone of your level can understand. Sullivan is obsessed with a grown woman's OBGYN records. He goes around examining pictures to see if she was really showing her pregnancy or if she was wearing a pillow under her dress. He has done a minute by minute analysis of the day she gave birth, including when her water broke, trying to prove she really didn't give birth. That is insane. Anyone who engages in such activity is insane.

If you think Sullivan is a serious person, then you are probably just as insane as he is.

Rialby said...

AlphaLiberal - did Sully lie when he said he was a conservative?

John said...

Alpha,

I don't care if Sullivan has Palin on the grassy knoll during the Zamprooder film. He is insane. Nothing he says can be believed or taken at face value. If you think those things are true, find a different source for their veracity.

John said...

Alpha,

Those things you list are just bald accusations. I don't have any way of knowing if Palin even said the things that are listed there. We only have Sullivan's word, which counts for nothing.

You might want to google the term "proof". It involves more than just saying something and wishing it were true.

Alexandro said...

Does anyone here understand a life dedicated to filling a "hole in the soul". A hole so deep that the loneliness to which it is linked crushes you.
He has spent his life on his back with his legs in the air for so long that he has lost his soul.
The hole cannot be filled, ever. Now I'm getting grossed out.
He is well aware of her sexual allure. An allure that he was denied as he was born without the
"Channel of Life".
What a sad man.

vbspurs said...

Palladian wrote:

Hemingway found the exit from that loop at the end of a shotgun barrel. Sullivan may not even know he's effectively in prison. But deep inside there is profound despair, and it is blooming, as it usually does, in a profoundly foul manner.

The thing with Palin and people like her is that they remind the Sullivan Set (socially liberal, moneyed, well-connected) that there is a whole other world out there, with different values and aspirations which are not at all cynically-based as in their world. There are no power lunch trysts in the middle of the day with one's resident mistress, nor do they require twice-a-week shrink sessions and alprazolam to help them cope with their life.

In fact, Palin doesn't represent many suburban moms either.

She is of a particular class of Americans that are intimately tied to the rhythms of the earth, who know about hunting season and salmon fishing as reflexively as we know about the start of spring training and white sales. They are healthy without need of gyms, entertained without need of drama, happy without need of drugs.

She lives the fulfilled reality that others hear from Eckard Tolle on Oprah.

It must be absolutely jarring to imagine a world like Palin's existing out there, but so long as they never encounter anyone like her, they can push them out of their minds.

What we've seen in the past year since she arrived on the American scene has been a collective hissy fit from people who JUST don't want to know about the Sarah Palins out there. She is an IMPOSITION on their existences.

You saw it on Michelle Goldberg's face in the diavlog: "I don't want to do this. I don't want to talk about this." She meant it at that moment with every fibre in her body. I honestly think it masterful how Ann got her to continue.

In Sullivan's case, she's going to have to pull the opposite trick -- get him to shut up about Palin.

I just don't think that's going to happen, partly because it's also not in either blogger's professional self-interest to do so.

Cheers,
Victoria

Rialby said...

Good lord, looking at some of these now. What a prissy little bitch Sully is. Here's an example:

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin XII: Her Pay Cut As Mayor
TPM has the details on this. As usual, the public statement from Palin:

"As mayor I took a voluntary pay cut, which didn't thrill my husband; and then as governor I cut the personal chef position from the budget, and that didn't thrill my hungry kids."

And as usual, the different reality:

As a Council member she voted against hiking the mayor's salary from $64,000 to $68,000, but it passed anyway. When she came in as mayor, she passed the ordinance which brought her salary down to $61,200. But that may not actually have taken effect, and Council-mandated raises brought her actual salary up to $68,000.


Really. That's earth shattering, Palin should be thrown into prison right now. IT MAY NOT ACTUALLY HAVE TAKEN EFFECT. What a filthy liar she is. What's that? We're relying on year old blog posts that haven't been revisited or further investigated to PROVE SARAH LIED?

Sully's done such a good job here, I think his favorite POTUS should appoint him to prosecute KSM. That way Obama can be sure he'll get Sully's vote next time - whether or not it's legal for him to vote.

vbspurs said...

Mencken defined puritanism as the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time. Sullivan is a puritan. He is bitter that Palin has had the vaginal orgasm that he will never have. I think we all know what he means when he refers to Palin's finger on the button.

God, William, you always make me gasp. You have this way of peeling back dead skin to expose the raw flesh underneath every topic.

I'm not sure that you're saying that Andrew Sullivan suspects he is not half the woman Sarah Palin is, or what, but I think you've convinced me what you said is spot on.

Cheers,
Victoria

wv: forhimi!!

Alexandro said...

AL said:

"That's not what Sullivan did, however. He made a reasoned and researched case which Althouse handled superficially."

Love your humor, boy. If there is such a thing as a good troll, are you one of them?

Please tell me the drugs are on. Prescribed by the Doctor, of coarse. I want some.

AlphaLiberal said...

And, to clarify, I so helpfully provided the hyperlink explanation for DBQ because everything was hyperlinked from the Sullivan post Althouse lamely tries to refute.

How DBQ could miss all that is a mystery.

Not that facts and evidence hold any sway when trying to reason with a modern conservative.

vbspurs said...

Name 3 three things that are true that Obama ever said.

Kirby, I genuinely was going to post the three true things said by Obama, but you know...I can't think of any. Let's see. Ummmm. Wow. OH! I got one!

"You're likeable ENOUGH, Hillary."

Cheers,
Victoria

AlphaLiberal said...

Alexandro, you know you said nothing beyond a simple denial, right?

As a response, it is dumb.

Here are some more examples of Palin's lies, all with supporting evidence. Good job, Sully! (Not that I'm a fan!)

Palin lied when she told Oprah that she desperately wanted to go on Saturday Night Live because it would be "fun" and could push back on the Tina Fey impression Palin says she hated but never actually listened to. Contemporaneous emails show that Palin resisted going on SNL and was therefore lying to Oprah.

Palin lied when she denied that the Alaska Independence Party supports secession and denied that her husband had been a member; in fact, even the McCain campaign noted that the party's very existence is based on secession and that Todd was a member for seven years.

Follow the links here:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/michelle-goldberg-gets-it.html

AlphaLiberal said...

Also, having perused the long list Sully provides, it is clear he was joking when he invited Althouse to debunk them all.

The preponderant weight of evidence showing this woman is a pathological liar is stunning.

No wonder all her supporters can do is sputter denials.

Palin lied when she claimed that Alaska has spent "millions of dollars" on litigation related to her ethics complaints; in fact, that figure is much, much lower, and she had initiated the most expensive inquiry.

Rialby said...

So, a politician who's been caricatured for ill on a national television show cheerfully says that she'd love to go back on when in fact she really doesn't want to.

Dude, you and Sully really need to get lives.

AlphaLiberal said...

JOhn lies:

Those things you list are just bald accusations. I don't have any way of knowing if Palin even said the things that are listed there. We only have Sullivan's word, which counts for nothing. .

No. They're not. He has supporting evidence right on down the line.

You guys really don't know how to use hyperlinks?

Palin lied
when she claimed to be unaware of a turkey being slaughtered behind her
during a filmed interview; in fact, the cameraman said she had picked
the spot herself, while the slaughter was underway.

Palin lied when she denied having rejected federal stimulus money; in fact, she continued to accept and reject the funds several times.

master cylinder said...

"She is of a particular class of Americans that are intimately tied to the rhythms of the earth, who know about hunting season and salmon fishing as reflexively as we know about the start of spring training and white sales. They are healthy without need of gyms, entertained without need of drama, happy without need of drugs."

What the heck does this mean?
Really, THIS is how you explain Palin?
The prose is pretty, but what the heck
does it mean? Sounds clinically delusional.

Alexandro said...

Madame Victoria declares:

"She is of a particular class of Americans that are intimately tied to the rhythms of the earth, who know about hunting season and salmon fishing as reflexively as we know about the start of spring training and white sales. They are healthy without need of gyms, entertained without need of drama, happy without need of drugs."

...and they are blessed. The very image of Sarah Palin strikes terror on the hearts of the truly ignorant who revel in their self absorbed darkness.

Henry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henry said...

Perhaps the most desperate phrase in Sullivan's argument is "clinically delusional".

People used to use words for politicians and other windbags like "braggart" and "blowhard."

It's not complimentary to call someone a blowhard, but it's not damnation either. The word admits around its edges some knowledge and humor about the human condition. A blowhard may be good at their job. A blowhard may have integrity and honor -- about things other than themselves. A blowhard may even be your friend.

Even calling someone a liar doesn't mean much anymore. The accusation is overused. Now a liar has to be a pathological liar (see AlphaLiberal, above).

Or, in Andrew Sullivan's case against Sarah Palin, she's "clinically delusional."

Clinical. Pathological. Here is the attempt to dehumanize a person by assigning her a mental disease. That particular logic has a terrible history, as Sullivan well knows.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ Vbspurs

The thing with Palin and people like her is that they remind the Sullivan Set (socially liberal, moneyed, well-connected) that there is a whole other world out there, with different values and aspirations which are not at all cynically-based as in their world. There are no power lunch trysts in the middle of the day with one's resident mistress, nor do they require twice-a-week shrink sessions and alprazolam to help them cope with their life.

In fact, Palin doesn't represent many suburban moms either.



I thought a bit along these lines, reading Palin's book, while waiting for my mammogram today.

It seems to me that Palin's childhood and experiences are so alien to the modern urban liberal, as to be from another planet or.....to be more exact...from another time.

Living in Alaska seems to be a retro American experience. "A Leave it to Beaver" type of childhood. I know this because this is the type of area that I live in now, and because I lived ( in real time) the life of the Cleavers. It seems that the Palins are from an era that is innocent and pure to the traditional values of America.

Liberals, who live in a stew of snide corruption, can't stand the existence of a Sarah Palin, because it peels back the ugly mask of their own existence. Palin, and her ilk (in their minds), are a reproach to everything they lack in their own parched souls. Sullivan can't stand looking into the dark mirror and see the reflection of lightness, honesty and integrity.

Mirror, mirror on the wall...and aaaaghhhh it ain't you Sully.

vbspurs said...

Alexandro wrote:

...and they are blessed. The very image of Sarah Palin strikes terror on the hearts of the truly ignorant who revel in their self absorbed darkness.

Yeah, but you see, there's the thing.

What you said is how they imagine Sarah Palin thinks of them: despite having it all, they don't have what really counts (whatever that is, but it's usually tied to inner serenity). And they DO NOT WANT TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

So long as she and her ilk are not around, potentially casting disapproving looks at them or making third parties unconsciously compare them unfavourably with her, everything is all right in their narrow, elite universe.

What needs to be understood is that socially progressive people are obsessed with validation. It's not enough to tolerate them -- you must also accept them completely. If they suspect that you are not going to validate their opinion or lifestyle, they act worse than toddlers.

vbspurs said...

You were writing almost the same thing as I was about Palin's existence, at the almost the same time, DBQ!

...and wouldn't you know it. Though I am not in the age bracket to start, I scheduled my first mammogramme for January. I thank the Death Panels for forcing me to do so, based on their assbackwards findings.

jeff said...

My Lord, AL.....based on your examples, how do you bring yourself to vote for ANYONE? By your definition, they are all pathological liars.

Scott said...

"Alpha Liberal", with a petty, condescending, self-stroking style that insecure leftists love, cuts and pastes a few claims of "lie" from Sullivan's laundry list.

They are not at all hard to Fisk:

1. The Branchflower Report's conclusions have been criticized for having a politically motivated bias. She was well within her constitutional prerogative to do what she did. It's bare-knuckle politics, which is unexpected from a female politician who isn't a Democrat. Moreover, Sullivan's claim of "lie" is inapposite to his stated "proof" (a common propaganda technique Sullivan uses frequently in his laundry lists).

2. Palin is just using John Kerry's "I was for it before I was against it" claim. A common politician's fudge. BFD.

3. Maybe it's true. A one day difference is a math error. Who knows?

4. Again, Sullivan's claim of "lie" is inapposite to his "proof" in the absence of specifying what specific report Palin is referencing.

* * *

One could go through Sullivan's slap-dash laundry lists and Fisk all of the specific claims. But why bother? If he was a modest and careful academic like Norm Geras, his statements would be unimpeachable. But Sullivan is not at all that -- instead, he's become the blogorrheasphere's version of Fox News' Bill O'Reilly. Neither are careful in their research. They are both very much into cheap shots and personal attacks. And as long as they deliver ads to eyeballs, they don't give a shit about how they do it. If there is a difference, O'Reilly prefers bombast while Sullivan ricochets between high dugeon and self-pity. O'Reilly is annoying, but Sullivan's tack is uglier.

Palladian said...

Eh, I don't know. I look at Sarah Palin and see a media phenomenon, a symbolic figure and someone that, while sympathetic, isn't ready for the Presidency. I think there is a danger in making politicians into symbolic figures. I don't need symbolism, I need competent managers. Palin demonstrated precious little of this quality, Obama none at all.

I'm not interested in "validation". I spent my evening committing various acts of scandalous sodomy with my 22 year old boyfriend and yet I'm neither repelled by nor impressed with Sarah Palin. The fact that Sullivan has made a career out of viciously lying about her doesn't magically transform her into a capable candidate.

America deserves something better. Palin is better than Obama, but that's hardly a qualification is it?

vbspurs said...

One of the startling admissions in Palin's book is that she lost two kids, i.e., she sadly had two miscarriages (one right after Track, before Bristol; the other between Willow and Piper).

So she's actually been preggers SEVEN TIMES.

Please, this woman is outrageous -- she's like Superwoman. There's never been a national (female) politician even remotely similar to her.

She's like Rose Kennedy with political ambitions of her own.

Po Mmi said...

Victoria,


I just saw the first episode of Mad Men a couple of weeks ago. And a few clips, like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p6KC0Yd6TY

Much more worth the attention than Palin or Sullivan.

jeff said...

"I'm not interested in "validation". I spent my evening committing various acts of scandalous sodomy with my 22 year old boyfriend"

Jesus, Palladian, I've long given up on a 22 year old girlfriend. I'm impressed.

Palladian said...

"Jesus, Palladian, I've long given up on a 22 year old girlfriend. I'm impressed."

I don't take it for granted. I'm 34, bald and fat and the cute lads still fall for me for unknown reasons. Keep the faith, jeff! The girls will come around! I suggest good wine and wit.

Scott said...

@Palladian, who wrote: "Palin is better than Obama, but that's hardly a qualification is it?"

So true. We deserve better candidates than the parties have been giving us.

Defending Palin feels like defending the irrelevant. Yet I think we feel compelled to do it not because she's worth it, but because her principal journalistic stalker is dragging the level of political rhetoric down to the gutter. Sullivan would have been right at home among the yellow journalists of the late 1800s. And a lot of us who have appreciated what he produced in his early career are mortified by what he is doing today.

Ultimately, Sullivan's anti-Palin hate campaign isn't about Palin. It's about Sullivan. He knows it, we know it. And it's sadder than hell.

vbspurs said...

I'm not interested in "validation".

Palladian, you have never struck me as the kind of guy who needed any. Nor frankly, do I, though my proclivities are not nearly as fun as yours.

The validation part is for those who desperately want to people to think that there is nothing wrong with them. It's needy, pathetic, and very very post-modern. Since humans are judgemental to the core (that's how we survived for 3,000,000 years -- making cruel decisions about situations and people), the only solution is to demonise anyone whose life reflects badly on their own.

@Po Mmi: Nice! I finished episode 2 just now. I like it a lot, but it's also beginning to feel like Peyton Place. I also feel that I might've been a feminist in that time, and that shocks me.

LonewackoDotCom said...

1. I already have a (partial) list of Obama's lies and misleading statements. (Click each link for the full post, and for things that are more generally misleading see this list). Perhaps Althouse should wonder why she didn't know about it. What information sources does Althouse consume that would never tell her about that list?

2. Perhaps Sully would care to backup his claim here. Understanding how he lied about that issue doesn't require great intelligence, but admitting that he lied requires near-heroic integrity.

Scott said...

@Palladian: My 25 year old boyfriend wishes he could do similar things to me. It's frustrating when two tops are in love with each other. *sigh*

Nomilk said...

She is of a particular class of Americans that are intimately tied to the rhythms of the earth, who know about hunting season and salmon fishing as reflexively as we know about the start of spring training and white sales. They are healthy without need of gyms, entertained without need of drama, happy without need of drugs.


[Sigh.] You had me at "She." Or was it "drugs"?

vbspurs said...

Palin demonstrated precious little of this quality, Obama none at all.

I don't know, Palladian, honestly. I think she's far more competent than she's been allowed to show -- she ran a tight ship in Alaska, e.g., setting high personal standards of workload as well as attempting to cut through the BS of local politics.

Is she ready NOW to be President? No. Seeing Obama flail around like a halibut internationally is painful. And he has a lot of goodwill from all quarters.

Frankly, I'm holding out hope for later though, as another commenter said, in 2016. Plus, I still like Rudy.

Cheers,
Victoria

LonewackoDotCom said...

Larry J's comment way up above illustrates a common problem many have: they think that because they turn off NBC, NBC doesn't have an impact on them. That, of course, ignores the fact that what NBC does has an impact on millions of people, and those millions have an impact on people like Larry J. In a way it's Darwinistic.

As for Sully, the last time I looked at his traffic he was getting a few hundred thousand visits per day before the election. Obviously, he had an impact on many people, but because his opponents are - generally speaking - incompetent, they couldn't counter-act him despite how easy it would be.

vbspurs said...

Hehe, Nomilk. Although I feel I must tell you, I love milk! Not the 2% stuff either. I hope you can forgive me. :)

Alex said...

AL:

Not that facts and evidence hold any sway when trying to reason with a modern conservative.


Thus, they should be rounded up and exterminated. Right?

Naked Lunch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Palladian said...
Palin is better than Obama, but that's hardly a qualification is it?.

Privately, you never in a million years would trust the nuclear codes over to Palin over Obama, and you fucking know it. I think that's what Sullivan is trying to get it at ultimately: this stupid charade everyone plays that Palin is even remotely qualified for any prominent government job on the national level. She couldn't even serve the 115k people that voted for her in Alaska, winning by 15k votes.

Alex said...

Privately, you never in a million years would trust the nuclear codes over to Palin over Obama, and you fucking know it.

No I don't fucking know it. Douchebag.

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