January 30, 2010

President Obama goes to the GOP retreat and purports to promote the "absolutely essential... the process of disagreement."

I said I was going to watch the the video of Obama's speech to the GOP retreat and the the Q&A session. (Transcript.) Here's my edit with commentary, beginning with the frist thing that made me laugh:
I've said this before, but I'm a big believer not just in the value of a loyal opposition, but in its necessity. Having differences of opinion, having a real debate about matters of domestic policy and national security; that's not something that's only good for our country, it's absolutely essential.

It's only through the process of disagreement and debate that bad ideas get tossed out and good ideas get refined and made better. 
Would the bad ideas have been tossed out of the health-care plan if the congressional Democrats had gone through a "process of disagreement" that included the Republicans? It's way too late to talk about some kind of "absolutely essential" process that the Democrats never even considered following back when they thought they had an invincible supermajority. Republican support is a necessity now, but not because of some dialectical ideal of policymaking proceeding by debate. You need the votes now, and you didn't then.
The only thing I don't want -- and here I am listening to the American people, and I think they don't want either -- is for Washington to continue being so Washington-like.
The people reacted and are continuing to react to what the Democrats did with their supermajority. The objection isn't to discord and obstruction. The objection is to the rule of a single party rule that has seen fit to ram through policies people don't want.

You're telling the Republicans to be more acquiescent, right when they are well-positioned to win elections in the fall. And isn't that what the people want, a better balance of conservatives and liberals in Congress? And isn't that the way to get to real bipartisanship, with a second party that has some voting power? You're only saying what you are now because Scott Brown won in Massachusetts and took away the overweening power of the Democrats in the Senate.
... I don't believe that the American people want us to focus on our job security. They want us to focus on their job security.
But you really are focusing on reelecting Democrats here. It is about their job security, as you see Republican challengers on the horizon.

Let's dig into the Q&A:
PENCE: ... Republicans offered a stimulus bill.... It cost half as much as the Democratic proposal in Congress. And using your economic analyst models, it would have created twice the jobs at half the cost. It essentially was across-the-board tax relief, Mr. President.... [W]ould you be willing to consider embracing... the kind of across-the-board tax relief that Republicans have advocated...?
I cut down that question to its essence, so I've made it look easier to see than it was, but does Obama answer the question? The closest he gets is:
OBAMA: ... 95 percent of working Americans got tax cuts. Small businesses got tax cuts. Large businesses got help in terms of their depreciation schedules... [T]he notion that I would somehow resist doing something that cost half as much but would produce twice as many jobs -- why would I resist that? I wouldn't. I mean, that's my point, is that -- I am not an ideologue.... The problem is, I couldn't find credible economists who would back up the claims that you just made.... There may be other ideas that you guys have....
Pence cuts through the verbiage, and restates he question clearly:
PENCE: Mr. President, would -- will you consider supporting across-the-board tax relief, as President Kennedy did?
Obama's answer:
OBAMA: ... I think is important to note, you know, what you may consider across-the-board tax cuts could be, for example, greater tax cuts for people who are making a billion dollars.... [a]nd... if you're calling for just across-the-board tax cuts and then, on the other hand, saying that we're somehow going to balance our budget, I'm going to want to take a look at your math and see how that -- how that works. Because the issue of deficit and debt is another area where there has been a tendency for some inconsistent statements.
AKA "no."
RYAN: ... [W]hy not start freezing spending now? And would you support a line-item veto and helping us get a vote on it in the House?

OBAMA: ... [I]f you either increased taxes or significantly lowered spending when the economy remains somewhat fragile, that that would have a destimulative effect and potentially you'd see a lot of folks losing business, more folks potentially losing jobs. That would be a mistake when the economy has not fully taken off....

With respect to the line-item veto, I actually -- I think there's not a president out there that wouldn't love to have it....
Obama cuts Paul Ryan off when he starts to explain why this new version of the line-item veto is unconstitutional. (The Clinton-Era Line Item Veto Act was unconstiutional.)
CHAFFETZ: [W]hen you stood up before the American people multiple times and said you would broadcast the health care debates on C-SPAN, you didn't. I was disappointed, and I think a lot of Americans were disappointed.

You said you weren't going to allow lobbyists in the senior-most positions within your administration, and yet you did. I applauded you when you said it, and disappointed when you didn't.

You said you'd go line by line through the health care debate -- or through the health care bill. And there were six of us, including Dr. Phil Roe, who sent you a letter and said, "We would like to take you up on that offer. We'd like to come." We never heard a letter. We never got a call. We were never involved in any of those discussions.....
OBAMA: ... I think it's a legitimate criticism. So on that one, I take responsibility.
All right! Guilty as charged. But are you going to do anything about it now? That's what "responsibility" really means. Not just, yep, we did that.
BLACKBURN: [T]hank you for acknowledging that we have ideas on health care. Because, indeed, we do have ideas. We have plans. We have over 50 bills. We have lots of amendments that would bring health care ideas to the forefront....

And if those good ideas aren't making it to you, maybe it's the House Democrat leadership that is an impediment instead of a conduit....

OBAMA: Actually, I've gotten many of your ideas. I've taken a look at them...  If you can show me and if I get confirmation from health care experts, people who know the system and how it works...  I'm game....

If you look at the package that we've presented -- and there's some stray cats and dogs that got in there that we were eliminating -- we were in the process of eliminating.

For example -- for example, you know, we said from the start that -- that it was going to be important for us to be consistent in saying to people if you can have your -- if you want to keep the health insurance you've got, you can keep it; that you're not going to have anybody getting in between you and your doctor in your decisionmaking. And I think that some of the provisions that got snuck in might have violated that pledge.
Snuck in...
[F]rankly, how some of you went after this bill, you'd think that this thing was some Bolshevik plot.
That made me laugh... but he just admitted that things got snuck in, so that does sound like a plot, and "Bolshevik" is just a funny way to say: I know this looks really left-wing to you. The question remains: Is it?
[W]e've got to close the gap a little bit between the rhetoric and the reality.

I'm not suggesting that we're going to agree on everything, whether it's on health care or energy or what have you, but if the way these issues are being presented by the Republicans is that this is some wild-eyed plot to impose huge government in every aspect of our lives, what happens is you guys then don't have a lot of room to negotiate with me.
Now, Obama is known for his rhetoric, and any politician uses rhetoric. The Republicans have to say too much government.  It's very effective, and it matches their ideology. Of course, it's annoying to the Democrats.
It's not just on your side, by the way. It's -- it's on our side as well. This is part of what's happened in our politics, where we demonize the other side so much that when it comes to actually getting things done, it becomes tough to do.
That's a fine point, but scrape away the nasty tone that's sometimes there, and politicians still need to state their ideological positions clearly. People need to know that the 2 parties are different. If Obama really believes in the ideal he stated at the outset, that there is an essential process of "real debate about matters of domestic policy and national security," then there needs to be crisp definition of conservatism and liberalism.

If you're going to say people need to be compliant and lawmaking shouldn't be tough, then you don't what happened to your ideal of the "absolutely essential... the process of disagreement"?

210 comments:

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master cylinder said...

Yes Michael, that is what you would like to think.
But you are not being honest with yourself.
Witness the savaging of Mimi.

JAL said...

I can understand why social conservatives vote Republican, but few Republicans here seem socially conservative. Surely not the gays.

Kaboom! There goes another rubber tree plant.

bagoh20 said...

Even when I was a kid and many of my friends wanted to steal other peoples stuff, I would refuse. I didn't fear getting caught, we never got caught for anything. I was voting against my own best interest because although I wanted a free bicycle, I did not want to steal someone eles's. Voting for your own self interest is often nothing more than a thieves' pact.

Not to mention "voting in my self interest" for Democrats usually means voting to give the Government $100 so they can give me back $30

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Mimi said...

a three-way usually devolves into two couples and one observer, and that's so old-hat.

Wow, with math skills like that no wonder you like the healthcare bill's cost savings.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Big Mike said...

@Bliss, no reason to be sorry. I'm pretty convinced that being innumerate is a necessary precondition for being a Democrat.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Then again, maybe she's just so good in bed that she routinely sees 3 people devolve into 5. Maybe us conservatives are just too conservative in bed for that sort of thing to happen.

AlphaLiberal said...

Gee, not one mention of teleprompter here. Come, Republicans, where did your teleprompter theme go?

Obama displayed a mastery of the issues when taking on their hardest questions. He punked them on their own ground!

HT said...

Mimi,

As someone who feels similarly - probably - as you and maybe thinks along the same lines politically, I would say to please stick around. I had to really sit back, breathe deep, and refrain a number of times when I first started reading and participating here. I recommend restraint, otherwise you will just provoke, and the provocation-talk is the lowest forms of commentary and dialogue IMO.

Sitting back and taking it on occasion the price to be paid for being in the minority, but there's a wealth of learning to be gained, not so much about the other side which there is that of course, and I don't mean so much about how others see your own POV, but just about the dialogue and the process. Blah! You know what I'm trying to say, I hope.

For my part, one of the things I most enjoy about this blog is not the political commentary which gets so predictably bludgeoning, but the other life stuff. And the gossipy things, like Tiger. That can be fun. And aside from two comments of mine, which Althouse deleted, it's not a bad place to hang out.

I hope you stay.

ken in tx said...

Those of you who think pharma companies make obscene profits don’t really follow the markets. Every pharma stock I have owned stank. Two of them went to zero; same with banks. I lost $10,000 on Bank of America. The only thing in my portfolio that‘s holding up is oil and precious metals.

Jim B said...

fls -

"Like retired cop Peter V. Bella, who argued here for a single tax rate just the other day, not realizing or not caring that would mean he would pay more in taxes in any revenue-neutral reshuffling. Like Joe the Plumber."

This is just about as ridiculous an argument as can possibly be made from a person who supports redistributing wealth and rationing health care in the name of helping others. How much more can ObamaCare possibly fit the definition of telling people to vote against their own self interest? Not much...

Tell the 85-90% of Americans who are happy with their health insurance plans that they have to put them at risk so that the other 10-15% who are either uninsured or just unhappy should have more. But that wouldn't be "voting against their self-interest" because fls defines "self-interest" as "interested in advancing somebody else's idea of redistributionist ideology."

Maybe, just maybe, self-interest is defined more broadly than that. The fact is that most Americans are aspirational: the American Dream is to rise up the income chain from where they are to where they'd like to be. Recognizing that redistributionist schemes and "soak the rich" ideologies are the surest way to kill those dreams isn't "voting against their self-interest." It's advancing their dreams.

He assumes that because they don't make $100K or $200K, or whatever arbitrary number that Leftists have decided today is "having too much," that they don't want to, or plan to one day. Or that they find punishing those who do to be patently unfair. To people like fls, there must necessarily be jealousy between people of disparate income levels; therefore, if people aren't as petty as fls is or have no interest in unfairly penalizing others for their success, then they are just "voting against their self-interest" after being duped by manipulative Republicans.

That's not just stupid. It's stupid on stilts.

Because, of course, people like fls know best what is in people's best interests better than the people do themselves. So he says patently absurd and moronic things like he did without the slightest recognition that attitudes like his are exactly the problem in America today and why there is such a cultural disconnect between the Left and pretty much everybody else.

Leave people alone. Let them make up their own minds about what's in their self-interest. Don't try to tell them how stupid they are for not falling for failed policies and ideologies which the Left hasn't sense enough to let die a quiet death.

It's precisely this patronizing, elitist attitude which people are rebelling against across the country. And fls has just given everyone a perfect illustration why....

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