February 7, 2010

Birthers ought to worry about Sarah Palin wearing an Israeli flag pin.

I'm reading about the the Tea Party convention, and I see that Sarah Palin wore "a small pin with two flags — for Israel and the United States." Meanwhile, some tea partiers are concerned that maybe Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

If Obama was born in Kenya — and I don't think he was — it would have nothing to do with the reasons why the Constitution requires the President to be a natural-born citizen, which is that we need an extra-strong safeguard against a President with a secret allegiance to a foreign state.

Wearing a foreign country's flag is more troubling than the geographical location of one's (American) mother at the time she gave birth. Presumably, Palin's pin, showing the 2 flags together, is meant to symbolize the alliance between America and Israel, but it seems to put the 2 countries at the same level. I think she should wear the American flag alone.

Am I questioning Sarah Palin's patriotism? Sure! I want questions about patriotism asked of anyone who runs for President or who, like her, might run. I support the constitutional principle that we need to safeguard against the calamity of a President with a secret allegiance to a foreign power.

We should have delved into Barack Obama's background and questioned him far more back in 2008. And I don't mean the possibility of a technical disqualification from the presidency. Where his mother was at the time of his birth has very little to do with anything that really matters. I'm more concerned with his mother's lack of connection to America and what she may have conveyed to him as he was growing up than her global positioning on the day he was born. Why did she marry 2 non-Americans?

I'm concerned with all the things about him that suggest a lack of devotion to America. His father was not American. His stepfather was not American. He spent formative years living in Indonesia. In adulthood, he chose to attend a church that featured sermons that harshly criticized America. Some of the people he associated with were rabidly anti-American. Campaigning for President, he gave a big  speech — and was hailed — in Berlin. He seemed to want a transnational image. He made statements apologizing for America and rejecting America's unique leadership in the world. He didn't wear a flag pin. There was an issue about whether he failed to salute the flag. Why didn't those things trouble us more?

But we voted. We made our big leap of faith. I voted for him too. He's running for reelection in 2012, one must assume. We should continue to look at these things and to add to the list. There's that bowing to foreign leaders, for example. We can look at what he's done and how well he's demonstrated his dedication to the United States. That's a continual process. But this birther business? This idea that he might be formally, technically disqualified? If it ever made any sense to go in that direction, it is now just plain too late. Look at the substance of how well he is serving American interests. He is earning or losing our trust every day, and it is absolutely right to talk about that.

And it is absolutely right to talk about the patriotism of anyone who would run for President.

152 comments:

Charlie said...

"Why didn't those things trouble us more?"

Speak for yourself.

Jim said...

As much as this seems interesting, I have to ask what I'm assuming the commenters who will follow would no doubt ask as well?

Why didn't this matter to you before you voted for him?

Why is it OK to question Obama's patriotism only when you question Palin's when you and so many others who voted for Obama thought it was far out of bounds to question Obama's before you actually voted for him?

I don't have a problem with asking Palin pretty much anything having to do with her policy positions - that's completely within bounds of any candidate for office. However, you'll have to excuse the look on my face when those questions come from the very same person who derided such questions of Obama as ridiculous, out of bounds and unreasonable when it actually mattered.

AllenS said...

The two flag pin means nothing to me. Some tea partiers doesn't mean much to me either. As far as some ... from either party shouldn't be taken as the whole of the party. Check some of the commenters on this blog from the other side. Are they all that stupid? I doubt it.

AlphaLiberal said...

Did Ann question Obama's patriotism? I'm not sure. Are you, Jim? Have you checked?

As far as Palin, it's the PAYtriotism which is not in doubt.

I do not care for wearing the Israeli flag pin. Further, I think she likes Israel so long as it figures into End Times thinking and prophecies. Let's not forget those wind up with the Jews dead and Left Behind.

So sh should probably not be posing as a friend of the Jews.

Pogo said...

Rhardin spoke my mind already:
"The Israeli flag pin means not allegiance to Isreal but taking no bull from Arabs."

It's an anti-jihad pin.
Pretty damn succinct message, too.

Crimso said...

"Wearing a foreign country's flag is more troubling than the geographical location of one's (American) mother at the time she gave birth."

What's more troubling than her embrace of New York money men (or neocons, pick whichever code word you'd like) is the fact that a Che flag was hanging in one of his campaign offices. She'd have to have her nose so far up Israel's ass it'd be coming out of its mouth before I'd find the former to be as remotely damning as the latter.

John Lynch said...

Sarah Palin is not a government official. She quit. She's not running for anything. So, as a private citizen, who cares about what pins she wears?

Hey, I'm convinced she's not a good candidate for President. I won't vote for her in that capacity. But as a private citizen, she can wear whatever she wants.

Why are we pretending that she is working for anyone but herself?

If Rush Limbaugh wore an Israel pin, would we care?

Pastafarian said...

Sure, it's appropriate to discuss the patriotism of anyone running for president.

(Of course, Palin isn't, but let's assume that she will).

But when those discussions come from someone who voted for Obama, the least American president in history, in terms of culture and allegiances, then all I can say is...Okee dokee.

Dude can't even throw a baseball, for fuck's sake.

And bear in mind: Hasn't the left tried to smear Palin as an antisemite? Isn't the Israeli flag pin a good way to inoculate herself against that particular slander?

And if she's wearing it on her lapel, how is that evidence of some "secret" allegiance to a foreign state?

I'd be much more concerned about the guy that didn't have a US pin, and cups his hands over his nuts when they play the anthem, and pronounces corpsman "corpse man", than I would the person with both a US pin and an Israeli pin. Whether the left wants to admit it or not, the Israelis are the best friends we have.

EDH said...

She'd have to have her nose so far up Israel's ass...

Yea, but is that ass "trim and firm"?

AlphaLiberal said...

A Che flag?

What does a Che flag look like.
You know Che was a man and not a country, right?

Ralph L said...

with a secret allegiance to a foreign power.
If you rub the paint off her flag pin, there's a hammer and sickle underneath. Now that's a secret!

WV - calchshi - the raw temperature numbers that university flushed.

Jim said...

Alpha -

1) I DO question Obama's patriotism and have questioned Obama's patriotism and will continue to question Obama's patriotism. He has made it clear before and after the election that he regards himself as above all that silly "patriotism" stuff. He's an urbane man of the world - healer to all - the man whose very election would heal the land and make the waters recede.

He has no loyalty to this country, to America, to Americans, or to anyone other than Barack Hussein Obama. His loyalty and his religion are the deification of himself.

I don't believe he's a Muslim, or a Christian, or any other religion because I don't believe that he has any belief in anyone or anything other than himself.

If there were some sort of contest for the King of the World, I have no doubt that he would be the first to throw his hat in the ring. America is too small a stage for him. He's truly transcended this country. He knows how to run every thing, everywhere, all the time.

If you doubt that, then you - sir - are obviously a racist, a Birther, ignorant, and he doesn't want to hear you do a lot of talking. Just turn off the blogs, and the news, and let Obama tell you what's best for you.

2) As for Palin "posing as a friend of the Jews," you must have confused her with Obama who has done the exact opposite in office from what he claimed he would do on the campaign trail. But how that makes this lie different from any of the others he told on the campaign trail, I can't be sure. There are so many lies, how can YOU even be sure what his latest policy position is?

Republican said...

http://palintv.com/

I can't make it out in last night's paid appearance.

In previous appearances going back to her campaign days, looks like she might have been wearing the same pin.

AlphaLiberal said...

Beyond all the joking around, the fact is that Israel drives US policy. They want to bomb the Gaza with cruel white phosphorus, the US goes right along.

And the sad part is that debate over Israeli policies is FREER in Israel than in the United States! If you question Irsael actions here you will be called anti-semitic, which is a vile slur.

(Hunh. mistyped "vile slut." That's for another thread, elsewhere no doubt)

Crimso said...

"You know Che was a man and not a country, right?"

Don't play stupid with me. You'll only make even more people wonder whether you actually are.

Jim said...

Alpha -

You really should do your homework before you embarrass yourself by spouting your ignorance.

Shut up.

OMG! A Che Flag!

::flops on the ground::

Who knew such a thing existed?

Oh yeah....Anybody who wasn't actively trying to drown it down the memory hole of what Obama has always been about.

Anything else you'd like to embarrass yourself by saying this morning?

AlphaLiberal said...

Using white phosphorus on civilians, let alone fighters, is a cruel practice. Israel has now admitted to it.

Let me guess, American conservatives are all for it.

White phosphorus burns long after it enters the skin. It would be hopeful if we could agree on this being vicious and wrong.

Maguro said...

Althouse, I find it interesting that you feel the need to bury your concerns about Obama's patriotism amidst a bunch of nonsense about birthers and Sarah Palin.

If our President isn't really devoted to America, surely that's the real issue, not Sarah Palin's lapel pins or what a bunch of tinfoil-hatted birthers "ought to worry about".

Joe said...

Let's not forget those wind up with the Jews dead and Left Behind.


So wrong at SOOO many levels...of course Sarah is a Christianist Wack-Job, jany Rethuglikkkan is, right?

And then there's the "They hate (secretly) the Jooooos" Of COURSE, Jesus was a Jew, and G*d proclaims thme, in His Holy Work (which Christians accept as well), to be the Apple of His Eye, His Chosen People, Jesus coming to amend not abridge G*d's Covenant...you know WE ALL ARE G*D"S CHOSEN PEOPLE NOW...

You know get more than a Andrew Sullivan grasp of theology dude/dudette. Or don't and just keep belieiving an proclaiming things tha make you look like an @rse.

George said...

You've got to be kidding, Ann. Obama's offenses against American patriotism--far more troubling than wearing a dual flag pin of one of our closest allies--didn't seem to bother you before the election.

Sweetbriar said...

Would you question someone's patriotism if they wore a U.S. flag along with a Union Jack? Combo pins of the our flag with other countries abound, usually for those who like to reference the old country, i.e., Irish-Americans, etc.. (Kenyan/African Americans? Dunno. Doesn't matter now.) In this case it probably refers to a commitment many Christians have to defend Israel from being hacked into bits, again, by the international community through the "peace process." It could also have something to do with the fact that the opening prayer for the evening was due to be led by Laurie Cardoza-Moore of www.pjtn.org .

Republican said...

I'm more interested in the faceoff that's coming between Pajamas Media/Roger Simon, and Andrew Breitbart.

Whose pin will Palin wear when the dust settles?

AlphaLiberal said...

Jim, that's a Cuban flag. Countries have flags not people. But, you're right, that's Che's face on the Cuban flag. I never saw that before.

And that was dumb for that person to have that in their work space and the person running the office to allow it to be on the wall.

Period.

It doesn't mean anything beyond that. It's not like Obama had that as part of his campaign or wore it in a pin on his lapel.

A bit different from the Palin case that Ann flags.

Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...

What's a Che flag?

Shorthand for "a Cuban flag defaced by/augmented with a photo of Che".

More fun with Che and Obama supporters.

Whatever. All this stuff was a live issue before Obama became president. When he stands for re-election in 2012, it'll just be on the job he's done.

This other stuff is about whether he was qualified, legally or morally, to be president.

Now he _is_ the president, and the only open question is whether he'll be judged worthy to be a two term one.

Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...

Took a minute too long to post. :-)

Jim said...

Alpha -

I'll believe you have a real and honest concern about Israel's use of white phosphorous as anything other than a transparent anti-Israel position when you categorically denounce:

1) Palestinian suicide bombers blowing up civilians in Israel;
2) Palestinians indiscriminately launching rockets at Israeli civilians
3) Palestinians terrorizing and killing any within their own territory who dissent from their own terrorist ideology
4) Palestinians blowing each other up in repeated civil wars
5) Palestinians admitting that Israel even has the right to exist at all.


Should I go on?

You're right. I have a hard time getting worked up about white phosphorous when the people who are complaining about it are the very same ones who willfully turn a blind eye to those who are actually committing atrocities on a daily basis.

Come back to this topic when you actually have a leg to stand on.

Chef Mojo said...

I'm not bothered by the flag pin issue at all.

Was it unpatriotic of my father, when a Naval Attache at the US Embassy in Madrid, to have a display on his desk with both a US and Spanish flag looking very much the way the lapel pin does?

Is it unpatriotic for POTUS to display the flag of visiting heads of state alongside his own during press conferences, gatherings and state dinners? This is quite common, and the flags are on equal footing, no matter how "insignificant" the country.

Am I unpatriotic when I wear similar lapel pins in honor of my Scottish ancestry, or to show solidarity with an ally, which does include Israel?

Althouse, I think your language in this case is what gets in the way:

Presumably, Palin's pin, showing the 2 flags together, is meant to symbolize the alliance between America and Israel, but it seems to put the 2 countries at the same level.

Actually, the alliance is assumed, because it does indeed exist. What the pin symbolizes is solidarity towards that alliance. This is an important distinction. Palin is simply telegraphing her solidarity towards the American-Israeli alliance.

Nichevo said...

Let's leave alone crypto-commie stuff for the now. A big part of the POTUS requirements, and why one shouldn't skate on these, is exactly what we are now seeing. One should be one with one's country, know it a little. One should not be saying or thinking "your American laws" in the same way that a space alien says "your Earth years."

Obama had less exposure to America and Americanism than the children even of most foreign career diplomats posted here. The UK or Soviet Ambassador's kids of the same era probably know (and like) this country better than he.

Army brats, though their parents may be posted far foreign, grow up on islands of Americanism in the midst of foreign lands, as do the children of business expatriates. So simple presence on American soil does not tell the tale, but barring exceptions, it is a useful proxy. The child should spend his formative years here.

That the child should spend his formative years not under the control of radical dissidents whose "attachment" to America is as that of a limpet mine to the hull of a ship, is so obvious as not (one might think) as to require legislation.

Instead it is left to the voters (who at best slept at the switch this time around), who are to be informed by the candidates and the Fourth Estate (for whom "asleep at the switch" would be an inaccurate and unfair euphemism for "in the tank").

You know, I won't even defend McCain at this juncture, leave him out of it. How could Democrats pick this guy over Hillary? I mean,she hates Republicans and men, but she doesn't hate ALL Americans.

Ann, meanwhile, you're a question-raiser, eh? Well the question you raise lately in my mind is How did you ever get to be allowed to vote? And can we fix that?

AlphaLiberal said...

Joe, your post is full of presumed ridicule but no substance rebutting my point.

We know Sarah Palin is an end timer and that end time prophecy doesn't exactly have a happy ending for the Jews.

Can you make a reasoned case that doesn't sound like a 3rd grader playground taunt?

And, I very rarely read Andrew Sullivan. Don't know what he says about it.

ricpic said...

To compare Palin's possible dual loyalties to Obama's is to compare a puddle to an ocean. Case in point: remember Zero's most recent bow, to the Mayor of Tampa, Pam Iorio? Everyone thought it was worth a few snickers and quickly moved on. Well, it turns out that Pam Iorio had declared November 15th to be CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) Day in the city of Tampa. Draw your own conclusions. My conclusion is that Zippy is a muzzie first and always. Truly a horrific circumstance for this country to be in, given that the people who spend all their time worrying about these things tell us it is a certainty that Al Qaeda or its affiliates will attack us here, on our own soil, within the next 3 to 6 months.

Moose said...

Huzzah, professor!

My sentiments exactly, about both Palin and Obama. If Sully had been able to get his mind out of Palin's uterus I would give more credence to his concerns as well.

Now, however I feel the same way you do about both her and Obama. He is the evil we chose, and Palin is the evil we need to avoid.

I fully support her getting her own talk show, however.

Jim said...

Alpha -

You really want to try to dance on the head of that pin?

A flag with Che's face on it IS a "Che flag" - that the Cuban flag is used as a background actually makes it worse. But it is Che's face which is the foreground, not vice versa.

It was big news prior to the election. That you were ignorant of it isn't Crimso's fault.

You thought you could get snarky responding to his comment, and wound up with egg on your face. You really should just admit that s/he knew something you didn't and apologize for your attempted snark.

knox said...

I think she likes Israel so long as it figures into End Times thinking and prophecies. Let's not forget those wind up with the Jews dead and Left Behind.

. . .

Palin wears an Israeli pin and you translate that to: Palin hates Jews? You're desperate.

Almost Ali said...

Atlhouse: I want questions about patriotism asked of anyone who runs for President

A little late now, wouldn't you say? Like many political pedestrians, you voted for the current president based on an article of blind faith. But only **now** do you see where he's been attempting to take us.

Which proves that for many, feelings cancel facts.

Quaestor said...

Crimso wrote:
"You know Che was a man and not a country, right?"

Don't play stupid with me. You'll only make even more people wonder whether you actually are.


Too late!

bagoh20 said...

"...ought to worry about Sarah Palin wearing an Israeli flag pin."

Really?

former law student said...

In adulthood, he chose to attend a church that featured sermons that harshly criticized America. Some of the people he associated with were rabidly anti-American.

Is criticism of the way our country is going unpatriotic? Then the tea party movement is unpatriotic, meaning Sarah Palin is indeed anti-American.

Via mutual funds, the Palins invest in a fair amount of foreign countries' stock, by the way, according to their financial disclosure:

iShares MSCI indexes for Australia, Belgium, and Spain; Legg Mason International; and Putnam International Capital


"'My country, right or wrong,' is a thing that no patriot would think of saying. It is like saying, 'My mother, drunk or sober.'"

Quaestor said...

knox wrote:
Palin wears an Israeli pin and you translate that to: Palin hates Jews? You're desperate.

Take it easy, knox. AlphaLiberal is just establishing cred for his next insanity plea.

former law student said...

-- G.K. Chesterton

knox said...

Althouse, I will admit the pin thing is an odd objection in light of Obama's past and background. In that context (your vote for Obama) it's a weird thing to take issue with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be all "DO YOU REGRET YOUR VOTE NOW??? " Like many commenters do ad nauseum. (Voting against McCain will always be infinitely understandable to me.)

It just seems like wearing the pin of an ally is miniscule compared to the signs of anti-Americanism that were in Obama's past.

AlphaLiberal said...

Sara P on Israel:

"I disagree with the Obama administration on that. I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to be expanded upon, because that population of Israel is, is going to grow. More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead. And I don't think that the Obama administration has any right to tell Israel that the Jewish settlements cannot expand." .

Why are all these Jews flocking to Israel again? End Time prophecies, perhaps?

The author of this piece goes on to cite her claims that Biblical prophecy should inform foreign policy.

Citing a news story:
She quizzed him on the presidents he's known and wanted his take on what the Bible says about Israel, Iran and Iraq, Franklin Graham reported.

Chef Mojo said...

Alpha, you moron:

The End Times are a tenet of faith to all Christians:

We beilieve In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

That's from the Nicene Creed, and AFIK, that, or some variation of that, is a central article of faith among all Christian sects.

So, what exactly are you saying, Alpha? Who exactly are you condemning?

Akiva said...

Oh AlphaLiberal, it's so nice to know that the world has reached a level of peace and fairness that no country need defend itself.

It's not like, say, 2 hours ago the peaceful defenseless Arabs of Gaza fired a missile at an Israeli population center (they did). It's not like, say, firing a missile at a civilian population center is a WAR CRIME (it is).

If the U.S.A. were held to the standard you'd hold Israel to, then the U.S. government, including every senator, congressman, member of the administration, INCLUDING President Obama, would be indicted for 150,000 charges of war crimes, for criminal acts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

Wait, didn't a US predator drone kill some people in Pakistan yesterday. That's extra-judicial killing, aka government authorized murder.

When will the UN be indicting President Obama?

Oh wait, you probably subscribe to that silly "the US is allowed to defend itself" theory, huh? You know, fight back against those who would do things like...blow up some buildings, take down an aircraft, fire a missile at a civilian population center.

Oops, that last one was in Israel, and defending against that isn't allowed.

This message brought to you by an American Jewish blogger currently sitting 4 miles outside of Hamas missile range.

Give me a call when those war crime indictments are filed against Hamas. That's 14,000 incidents of directly aiming at civilian population centers with NO military presence.

AlphaLiberal said...

Palin wears an Israeli pin and you translate that to: Palin hates Jews? You're desperate.

No. I never said "Palin hates Jews."

You said that!

Well, I'm done trying to have an intelligent conversation with conservatives. You guys are deeply dishonest and cannot even speak intelligently without throwing our a blizzard of insults.

Here's the thing. If the only argument you can make is a substance-free insult, then you don't have much to say.

So, go fuck yourselves, conservative America. You're a bunch of creeps.

Expat(ish) said...

@Alpha "They want to bomb the Gaza with cruel white phosphorus, the US goes right along. "

As opposed to that gentle HE that every one else uses.

-XC

Almost Ali said...

How is that a presidential candidate can hide his entire past, including all his school transcripts? No wonder people question his legitimacy.

Meanwhile, Obama was a jive-turkey before he ran for office, and he's a jive-turkey... in office.

Translation: 50+ million Americans got taken by a jive-turkey. And 25-million American are still being taken by the jive-turkey.

AllenS said...

Alpha, be patriotic, turn off the blogs.

Jim said...

fls -

"'My country, right or wrong,' is a thing that no patriot would think of saying. It is like saying, 'My mother, drunk or sober.'"

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Spoken like someone who has never had to deal with the children of alcoholic parents. The fact is that the child of an alcoholic must wrestle with the fact that - drunk or sober - the alcoholic IS their parent. That you would blindly say something as nonsensical as to claim the opposite shows just how little you know about the subject.

It's not unpatriotic to say that the country has gone off-track - no matter which side of the political aisle you're on. When it becomes unpatriotic is when your motivation for saying so isn't the best interest of the country - but your own or that of a foreign power.

Need an example? Anti-Iraq protesters. All of a sudden on January 20, 2009 they disappeared. Yet we're still there and not a single soldier has come home. Our presence there is no different than it was under President Bush, but all those columnists, KosKids, and Democratic congressmen suddenly haven't said a word since Obama's inauguration about the "evil imperialist StormTroopers." If there has ever been a clearer display of anti-patriotic behavior, I've never seen it. If it was wrong before, then it's wrong now. It's almost like it was just a nakedly partisan attempt to gain political power. GASP!

Don't even get me started on how years Democrats claimed that Afghanistan was the "real war" and Iraq was an unnecessary distraction only to publicly admit after Obama was inaugurated that they never really meant that either and that it was just a way to hammer the Bush administration. They really didn't want to be in Afghanistan either, but they knew it would be political suicide to admit it before they regained power. If you don't think that's unpatriotic, then you really have no understanding of the word.

Quaestor said...

former law student wrote:
"'My country, right or wrong,' is a thing that no patriot would think of saying. It is like saying, 'My mother, drunk or sober.'"

Who the heck are you quoting, fls, and what point are you trying to make? Rich or poor, drunk or sober, selling daisies or pushing them up, your mother IS your mother.

I'm fairly new to this blog, and I'm not one to make unconsidered character assessments, but the over the weeks I have noticed a decided trend toward the non sequitur in your postings. Is that how your law school taught you to build an argument, or have you adopted this, shall we say, oblique forensic style all by yourself?

Paddy O. said...

"Why are all these Jews flocking to Israel again?"

Or the same reason as for the last long while...

European antisemitism, perhaps?

It's much harder to assume apocalyptic assumptions in a pro-Israel perspective when current politics would give a lot of non-religious reasons for supporting Israel.

They are a globally persecuted people in varying degrees with a recent history of being victims of genocide. They are a functioning democracy who is pro-America in a region where anti-American sentiment is out of control. Attempts to blame anti-US sentiment on our support for Israel doesn't pay attention to pre-Israel allegiances.

If Israel was a communist nation always siding with America's enemies, then support for them by Evangelicals would much more clearly have to be religious. But, that they are generally on our side in global issues seems to be a larger issue, that there's apparent religious support for being on their side is an added bonus.

Christian history, sadly, bears out the fact that conservative Christians need not have any inherent affinity for Jewish people or lands. Christian history, in fact, points to the fact the tendency is just the opposite.

Indeed, if Israel wasn't a Jewish nation no one would care either way.

former law student said...

How is that a presidential candidate can hide his entire past, including all his school transcripts?

How did Reagan do at Eureka College, anyways? I've been wondering for thirty years. And that Clinton fellow -- how did a fatherless backwoods hick get into Yale Law School? Why has he been suppressing his transcripts from Hope High (or whatever) for all these years? And Jerry Ford wasn't even Jerry Ford, but a guy named Leslie King.

Jim said...

Alpha -

Here's the thing. If the only argument you can make is a substance-free insult, then you don't have much to say.

Oh...you mean like trying to go after Crimso because you were too ignorant to know that Obama staffers were flying Che flags inside his HQ?

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up, creep. (to use your own words)

Chef Mojo said...

Bravely bold Sir Alpha
Rode forth to Althouse.
He was not afraid to die,
Oh brave Sir Alpha.
He was not at all afraid
To be dissed in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Alpha.

He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp.
Or to have his eyes gouged out,
And his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Alpha.

His head smashed in
And his heart cut out
And his liver removed
And his bowls unplugged
And his nostrils raped
And his bottom burnt off
And his pen--


Hey, Alpha! Go home and get yer f*#kin' shinebox!

knox said...

Well, I'm done trying to have an intelligent conversation with conservatives.

If only you would go away. Don't tease like that.

The kuckoo things you post and everyone else is dishonest. Jesus.

Quaestor said...

AlphaLiberal wrote:
Here's the thing. If the only argument you can make is a substance-free insult, then you don't have much to say.

Pot, meet kettle.

Oh, AlphaLiberal, I love you. You are so easy!

Julius Ray Hoffman said...

I think this is in the same vein as Rush's comments that were posted here a couple of days ago. Palin is saying that she supports Israel, therefore she is not a Muslim. You don't see Obama wearing an Israel flag pin, do you? No Muslim would wear one, would they? Just sayin'....

This week we should be on the lookout for Palin conspicuously eating pork in public.

Mick said...

Althouse said,

"Wearing a foreign country's flag is more troubling than the geographical location of one's (American) mother at the time she gave birth."

I am very surprised at you Dr. Althouse. But I am also glad that you are addressing this issue and taking note of the intention of the clause. I agree with the poster above that says it is an anti- jihad pin. But the larger question that you refuse to answer is, if the intent of the Natural Born Citizen Clause is to prevent foreign influence in our top offices, how can one be a Natural Born citizen if Born a Dual Citizen? Obama admits that his citizenship was "GOVERNED", by Britain here, under Factcheck:

http://www.fightthesmears.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

Why is it a technicality to adhere to the Constitution? Why would it be too late to address a Constitutional mistake?
The only other Usurper was Chester Arthur, and he went great lenghts to hide his Non- Natural Born Citizen status. He lied about his date of birth, and his family history, and burned all of his family historical papers before his death. Much like Obama, and as Garfield's running mate, questions were raised about his place of birth (They thought he was born in Canada, actually it was Vt.) before the election. The Issue that never came before the public, and was unknown until just recently, was the fact that Chester's father was not naturalized (he was Irish-British) until Chester was 14. Since the issue was fraudulently hidden from the public, his Usurpation cannot be considered precedent. Were there issues of non allegiance? Well there are accounts of his making US troops salute the Union Jack by executive order (a mere 100 years after the Revolution):

"EXECUTIVE ORDER.[2]

[Footnote 2: Read by the Secretary of State before the people assembled to celebrate the Yorktown Centennial.]

YORKTOWN, VA., _October 19, 1881_.

In recognition of the friendly relations so long and so happily subsisting between Great Britain and the United States, in the trust and confidence of peace and good will between the two countries for all the centuries to come, and especially as a mark of the profound respect entertained by the American people for the illustrious sovereign and gracious lady who sits upon the British throne

_It is hereby ordered_, That at the close of the ceremonies commemorative of the valor and success of our forefathers in their patriotic struggle for independence the British flag shall be saluted by the forces of the Army and Navy of the United States now at Yorktown.

The Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy will give orders accordingly.

CHESTER A. ARTHUR"

Now we have Obama, who has brought the issue of his dual allegiance at birth before the public. He has done this on purpose. His aim is to alter the meaning of Natural Born Citizen by PRECEDENT. There have been pleadings by left leaning groups to alter the definition (although they never really say what the definition is-- they assume the sale that it means merely birth on US soil. There have even been attempts such as this one by Sen. McKaskill to change it by Senate Bill:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2678

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:-8mxNrTuzJsJ:www.jcics.org/natural%2520born%2520summary%2520

Then of course there was resolution 511, which sought to cleanse the NBC status of McCain, who since he was born in Panama was surely not a Natural Born citizen, and the resolution has no force in law. What Obama knows is that the original meaning of Natural Born Citizen cannot be changed by a Naturalization Act of Congress, it must be changed by amendment. But if the public believes that the meaning is something else, and the issue is before the public, then it may be changed by precedent. Obama is making an end run around the national security clause of A2S1C4,5. That not only makes him dangerous, it makes him a traitor. What comes after him?

Cedarford said...

"Pogo said...
Rhardin spoke my mind already:
"The Israeli flag pin means not allegiance to Isreal but taking no bull from Arabs."


Palin is proclaiming herself a Christian Zionist like others on the Republican Religious Right are. It does imply a higher loyalty to Israel and its Settlement policies than most other nations would find acceptable - even longtime friends of ours like Canada, Jordan, the UK.

To many in this country w/o such loyalties, it is also disturbing. Implying dual loyalty.
Imagine Bill Richardson showing up at rallies wearing a Mexican flagpin and saying "ya just gotta back what Mexico wants."
(Palin in her interviews on ME policy limited herself to "Ya just never 2nd guess what Israel wants. Ya just never do.")

====================
John Lynch - "If Rush Limbaugh wore an Israel pin, would we care?"

Yes, the same as we would care if Rush was spotted wearing a Confederate flag pin or had a little Confederate flag on his desk (as Palin had an Israel flag when she was Gov). Questions would and should be asked of Limbaugh if such an event happened.

=============
Pastafarian - "Whether the left wants to admit it or not, the Israelis are the best friends we have."

That's like a member of the Chinese Politiburo arguing that the parasitic but proudly independent N Koreans have been China's most steadfast and loyal "special friend" since 1949.

---------------
Crimso - What's more troubling than her embrace of New York money men (or neocons, pick whichever code word you'd like) is the fact that a Che flag was hanging in one of his campaign offices.

Obama wasn't wearing a Che pin, he didn't put a little Che poster on his desk. Actions of a lone campaign worker that was unknown to Obama's people and taken down within 10 minutes of the blogosphere reporting it.

former law student said...

Regardless of Palin's beliefs, American anti-Semitism could actually work to benefit Israel.

Remember when, in the 30s, our State Department turned away the S.S. St. Louis, filled with refugee Jews?

Consider that, at a relatively small cost of $2 billion a year, Israel provides a place for the world's Jews to go that's not part of the United States.

Pogo said...

"We should have delved into Barack Obama's background and questioned him far more back in 2008."

This was delved into quite a bit at the time.

The delving was simply ignored.

AlphaLiberal said...

Jim:

Oh...you mean like trying to go after Crimso because you were too ignorant to know that Obama staffers were flying Che flags inside his HQ? .

No. like When I looked at the link you provided and responded:

But, you're right, that's Che's face on the Cuban flag..

I admitted your point and here you are still arguing it after I admitted it! Real classy, Jim.

You guys are such children. You can't have a discussion with people you disagree with without insulting.

Insults are all conservatives have!

Jim said...

fls -

"Remember when, in the 30s, our State Department turned away the S.S. St. Louis, filled with refugee Jews?"

Gee...I wonder if I can remember which political party controlled the State Department in the 30s....

Help me out here, fls....Could you jog my memory a little bit?

Skyler said...

What I dont' understand about the birther nonsense is that his mother was American. Therefore he's an American too. What's the big deal.

Of course, Americans are allowed to be marxists, they just shouldn't be voted for elected office.

Jim said...

Alpha -

"No. like When I looked at the link you provided and responded:"

Your content-free snarky comment came first. You know, the kind that you said people were "creeps" for making.

I know it sucks that were caught out doing what you were accusing others of doing BEFORE THEY WERE. But caught you are, and caught you stay, no matter how much you try to wriggle free.

Lawler Walken said...

There's not much point in asking a question to which the answer is unknowable unless a politician has openly denounced the country and advocates its demise. Everyone who agrees with a candidate's positions will assert he's a patriot and wants the best for his country and everyone who disagrees with those policies will claim the opposite. Unless there's some definition of patriotism that isn't dependent on a political point of view an inquiry into a candidate's patriotism is futile.

Jim said...

Skyler -

What I dont' understand about the birther nonsense is that his mother was American. Therefore he's an American too. What's the big deal.

There are some technicalities around that because she was too young at the time. It doesn't really matter though, once he became president, it became a purely political question which would have required removal from office by the Congress - the Supreme Court lost jurisdiction over the matter.

It's kind of like arguing about his transcripts, etc. It's pretty plain that he had something to hide by not doing full releases of the information when it was requested prior to the election. But now that's a matter for historians to argue over.

What matters now is the damage that has, is and will do the country and how to put an end to it ASAP.

Skyler said...

Israel isn't really always our best friend. I have friends who were attacked by the Israeli military during the Reagan administration. Their jets used to thump USMC helos carrying diplomats. (Thumping is when a jet flies very close above the helo and causes it to drop and toss passengers around.)

Israeli tanks attempted to overrun Marines and were stopped because a lone Captain of Marines jumped on top of the tank and convinced that tank commander that a .45 through his skull was not worth it.

Israeli spies on us. Jonathan Pollard is still (justly) in prison last I heard for giving them military secrets.

Israel is not an enemy, but they are not our best friends. I think Palin will never be president, and I don't think I would ever vote for a candidate that wears the flag of any other country on their lapel.

But I like her talk about smaller government and lower taxes.

From Inwood said...

Good Grief, this post was made for C4.

Palin shows that she's really a captive of the neo-cons, a/k/a, Joos!

Her pin means as much to me as Hillary's NYY cap.

Sounds like the claims that Al Smith would have a papal flag flying in the White House.

And then there was Reagan's & Tip O'Neill's Shamrock or Green Carnations on St Paddy's day.

Anyway, forget the forgettable Birthers. Why should we non-Birthers be concerned with her joint American/Israel flag pin? Other than to rant about how politicians have to do this kind of showmanship (showpersonship?).

Hey, about Coolidge in the Indian, OOPS Native-American Feather-head dressing. Wasn't that a Warbonnet?

Warmonger!

Beth said...

When I see a conservative politician with an Israeli flag, I see a fundamentalist Protestant. Their love from Israel comes out of their End Times beliefs. That raises other flags for me. I don't want fundamentalists in government. They're on a mission from God, not the Constitution. The Constitution's just another document in their religious Dungeons and Dragons mythos. They filter their reading of it through their religion.

I don't mean this to be insulting to people who are Christians. I am a Christian. I'm also old enough to have watched the fundamentalist political movement develop, and I am not willing to let my guard down.

From Inwood said...

fls

Funny, but no one is wondering about your law school transcripts☺

Quaestor said...

former law student wrote:
How did Reagan do at Eureka College, anyways? I've been wondering for thirty years. And that Clinton fellow -- how did a fatherless backwoods hick get into Yale Law School?

I suppose you are making the point that the office holder's academic performance wasn't an issue during the Reagan presidency. As I recall Reagan's harshest critics called him an "amiable dunce" based mainly on his lack of Ivy League credentials. These attacks failed because Reagan had never offered himself to the voters as a scholar. He ran on his record as a two-term governor of California, and he sustained himself in office by his performance and his formidable rhetoric.

The reason Obama's secrecy regarding his transcripts is germane is that his partisans used his putative academic achievements as arguments in favor of his candidacy. In the months leading up to 11/04/08 one could hardly watch a news show or read a paper without encountering "Obama, the Constitutional scholar" or some such Obama panegyric with an academic achievement theme.

Geez, fls, this is obivous, isn't it? Must forever I tidy up your logic?

BTW. Clinton's being a Rhodes Scholar probable helped that law school application through the Yale admissions office, just sayin'...

WV: blogymen (n) Men who have blog themselves into oblivion.

Beth said...

Meanwhile, Obama was a jive-turkey before he ran for office, and he's a jive-turkey... in office.

Jive turkey? Watchoo talking 'about, Willis? That's dyn-o-mite!

Almost Ali is one happenin' cat, man. Dayum!

Quaestor said...

Ah heck, that should read "Men who have blogged themselves into oblivion."

Damned fingers...

wv: radmorri (n) Latin plural. A group of ambitious skateboarders

narciso said...

No, she has never hid that fact, it's present most conspicuously in
that documentary by Elon Frank, which has been stripmined by Trig Truthers. Frank. a former Israeli fighter pilot, wanted to a do a profile of female politicians and
he chose Palin, as one of the subjects. Beyond parody Ann

Mick said...

Thankyou for addressing this Dr. Althouse. If the original objective of the Natural Born Citizen requiremnent of the POTUS and VP was to prevent foreign influence into those offices, how could the children of Aliens born in the US be considered Natural Born Citizens? At birth they are born with say, US and Mexican allegiance (they are also citizens of Mexico). They are born with a Natural Allegiance and affinity for their parent's homeland. Much like Obama has affinities outside of this country. for instance, he campaigned for his cousin Odinga in Kenya (when he was an Il. senator), who when he lost commited genocidal murders. He campaigned for the US Presidency in Europe. He attempted to sign a Climate Treaty that would subjugate the US to World governess w/o approval from congress. Are these the actions of a man with sole allegiance to this country? Should such a man be commander and chief of the military and have security clearance? I am amazed that people think that the requirement the the POTUS be Born in the US of 2 US Citizen Parentssss is a technicality, or somehow is predjucial. There is no "RIGHT" to be POTUS, the Natural Born Citizen requirement of A2S1C4,5 is a National Security requirement. Immigrants that Naturalize can have a Natural Born Child, since the clause only requires 2 generations of citizenship to be eligible. George Washington foretold of the Problems of foreign influence over 200 years ago, and foretold of a charasmatic figure that would blind us to that danger. He also foretold of the dangers of political parties. I urge you all to read Washington's Farewell Address, it is very prescient.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/farewell/sd106-21.pdf

Jim said...

Beth -

I don't want fundamentalists in government. They're on a mission from God, not the Constitution. The Constitution's just another document in their religious Dungeons and Dragons mythos. They filter their reading of it through their religion.

And it makes you uncomfortable because their higher power is God as opposed to some secular religious belief like AGW. You're perfectly OK with the belief in imaginary "science," because that's something you're comfortable with.

AGW-cultists aren't loyal to the US. Their mission is "saving the planet," and if that brings economic destruction to the US not only are they OK with it. They practically demand it as a precondition to an "ultimate solution."

And yes, I know the history of "ultimate solution," and I do not use it lightly. People like those in the Obama administration who have advocated for the forced mass-sterilization of undesired populations espouse the exact same eugenic solutions as Hitler, Stalin and others in the name of racial purity.

But I have never once heard you complain about discomfort about a president who thinks that such people are not only just fine with him, but deserving of the highest positions of power within our government. Nor have I heard a peep of protest from you over the positions themselves.

I'm sorry if I can't take your discomfort with "fundamentalists" seriously when you so narrowly define who you choose to classify as such.

I'd much rather deal with someone who views their religion through the prism of respect for the Constitution than those, such as AGW religionists and the corrupt, power-mad occupiers of the executive branch who view the Constitution as an impediment to be overcome or dodged when it's inconvenient, e.g., Obama's demand that Congress draw up legislation to put restrictions on the First Amendment.

Jason said...

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love White Phosphorus, by Jason Van Steenwyk

http://iraqnow.blogspot.com/2005/11/how-i-stopped-worrying-and-learned-to.html

I'm thinking about retitling it "How Stupid is Alpha Liberal? Let Me Count The Ways."

master cylinder said...

Palin is saying she supports Israel and therefore is a big neo-C wingnut.

Quaestor said...

AlphaLiberal wrote:
Insults are all conservatives have!

But you are so eminently insultable, Alpha.

Beth said...

And it makes you uncomfortable because their higher power is God as opposed to some secular religious belief like AGW.

No. You didn't read my comment, and you've added a bunch of bullshit of your own. That's typical of you, Jim. I don't bother playing along anymore.

Chip Ahoy said...

I wore an Angleheart pin once, (silver knife and fork) but that was only because a woman came up and pinned it on my jacket. I suppose it was required to denote me as volunteer but I took it off later after the function and replaced it with a really cute little Sergio Bustamonte pin of a child riding a shooting star. It's apparently irresistible to touch, men, women, and especially babies, all go directly for it.

cf said...

And *gasp* like Orrin Hatch she had both Israeli and American flags in her office when she was governor. Speak for yourself when you chide people for not paying attention to Obama's background before voting for him. I did pay attention and I did not vote for him.

Interestingly, the left which has aligned itself with the anti-Israeli forces is now suggesting that this means she's for "end times" hooey and therefore anti-Jewish.

For people like me (who did and do consider Obama truly anti-American) we recognize that her support for Israel is support for western civilization and the Judeo-Christian values which underly it.We think that's a good thing.

Cedarford said...

Some posters think all Christian Zionists are End of Days, Rapture sort of people. Not true. They are a component. There are others that are simple Fundies that somehow have come to a belief that since from OT Scriptures, Jews wrote that any who go against Israel go against God himself - that good Christians are obligated to do as the modern state of Israel instructs them to do. Other "CZ" are preachers that see Jews as the natural allies of Jesus's people - and are plunked out of the USA, Africa, Latin America for deluxe VIP all expenses paid indoctrination tours by the Israeli Gov't. Israel's efforts to build and nourish the CZ movement have been fairly successful in the USA. Not so much in other countries.
Israel also finds that CZs and rising political figures they spot make good spies. Important, as Israel operates the 3rd largest military/political/industrial espionage network in the US behind China and Russia. (Some say ahead of Russia these days).

Synova said...

The flag pin was a purposeful statement in the context of Palin's speech. One of her major points relating to foreign policy was that we(he) needed to stop sucking up to our enemies and start taking care of our friends. I don't recall what she said about Israel, specifically. What stood out to me was that she mentioned the missile shield in Eastern Europe and our poorer than usual relationship with Japan. She hammered the point that we were neglecting our allies.

No one listening to the speech could miss her belief in American exceptionalism. We live in the best country in the world and can solve any problem we face and should be confident that our country, as well as our people, are a force for good in the world.

What she does do, though, which I find curious rather than concerning... is she does seem to have a bit of a disconnect in identity from the "Lower 48." I think it's probably an Alaska thing, a geographical thing. She even substituted "Alaska" for "America" at one point in her speech (and verbally stumbled two sentences later) but they both start with "A" so that would be easy to do. But I still think that she thinks "Alaska" first.

Synova said...

"And *gasp* like Orrin Hatch she had both Israeli and American flags in her office when she was governor."

And the Israeli flag in her office was a small "flag stapled to a stick".

William said...

Historical note: At the turn of the twentieth century, there were more Zionists among British evangelicals than there were among European Jews. The position of responsible intellectuals was that assimilation was the way to go and that Zionism was for flakes.

Blue@9 said...

Mebbe she's a super-sekrit Joo come to take our children to Joo-land!

Cedarford said...

Some worrying Palin Christian Zionist quotes:
Starting with today on Fox:

Palin seemed to suggest several things that Obama could do to win more support.

“Say he decided to declare war on Iran, or decided to really come out and do whatever he could to support Israel, which I would like him to do,” she said.


Wonderful idea! Start a war with Iran because Our Special Friend wants us to, has since the Iraq War they urged on us blew up in our face and perversely powered "the Greatest Danger to Israel". Global Depression, 250 dollar oil, collapse of the dollar if China refuses to fund the new neocon adventure...
What's the downside compared to Palin making Israel happy and gaining heavenly bonus points??

============
"I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to be expanded upon, because that population of Israel is, is going to grow,” Palin told Barbara Walters last November. “More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead. And I don’t think that the Obama administration has any right to tell Israel that the Jewish settlements cannot expand.”
===========
And ...

Yah just never 2nd guess what Israel wants. Yah just never do.

Jim said...

Beth -

No. You didn't read my comment, and you've added a bunch of bullshit of your own. That's typical of you, Jim. I don't bother playing along anymore.

Umm...I practically included the entirety of your post in my reply. You made the point that you were uncomfortable with religious fundamentalists in your government because you don't think they have the best interest of this country at heart.

Just because you don't like my counterpoint that you are willfully ignoring fundamentalists of other types because you have a personal discomfort with the more divine religious beliefs while displaying an enormous comfort with more secular religious beliefs despite the plain fact that the secular religious have EXPLICITLY said, out loud and without any shame, that their first priority is the destruction of the American economy in the pursuit of their most global goals.

That may not be convenient for you, but it's the result of failing to read what you write. It's "typical of me" to point out such blatant hypocrisy. It's just too bad it's not "typical of " you to be able to have a coherent response.

Mick said...

I am surprised that no one here is focusing on the larger picture, which is not the fact that Palin wore a Isreali and American Pin. It is the point about Natural Born Citizens and the original intent of the clause- which was to prevent foreign influence. Obama's father was never a citizen, therefore he cannot be a NBC. He had dual allegiance with a foreign power at birth (thus the term Natural Born), no matter if born in the White House.

narciso said...

The Saudis and the Egyptians are just as concerned about Iran, getting
the bomb. It's interesting when Obama
was at the UN, he doubled down on
the 'settlements are the great danger' meme in a lower register of course than Ahmadinejad or Kadaffi; but he soft pedaled the revelations of the Qum facility. When she gave
a speech in HK, she obviously didn't know this, but she knew the danger
that Iran posed in general terms

Jim said...

*NOT* the result of failing to read what you wrote....

William said...

Obama's patriotism is of a piece with his happy marriage: it seems more an act of will and intellect than something organic. The happy marriages of the Gores, Bushes, Bidens etc seems a natural outgrowth of their personalities and values. The happy marriage of the Obamas, like that of the Clintons and Spitzers, seems something that is willed and negotiated rather than a flower in its native soil at the proper season. Given the domestic chaos that Obama's mother inflicted upon him, it seems just as likely he would grow up to be a philanderer as a dutiful family man. I respect the decision and path that he has chosen, but it was a decision and not an inevitability.....Likewise with his patriotism. His love of America seems qualified and hedged and a little brittle. His positive feelings about America seem directed by his brain. This in contrast to Palin whose feelings about America seem to shape the directions of her decisions. Palin loves her country as a child loves her mother. Obama loves his country as a child loves the step mother who is executor of a large estate.

narciso said...

I think birtherism is a mugs game, myself, it is much more interesting
why he displays those seemingly anti American attitudes, who were his formative influences, like Frank Marshall Davis, Derrick Bell at Harvard Law, Foner at Columbis, (we rightly don't know) Alinsky, Wright, Ayers

Charlie Martin said...

Right to talk about, sorta silly to brew this much inferential soup from this one oyster.

Michael said...

Game set and match to Jim. Beth, sometimes when one boxes above one's weight one gets beaten.

Jimmy Shi said...

Why should Barack Obama have been made to answer questions about his mother's decisions?
This seems an absurdity. She married two non-Americans because she fell in love with two non-Americans. She moved to Indonesia because that's where her second husband was from and where he did his work, and where she also would do much of her own.
These questions troubled me not at all.

edutcher said...

Sweetbriar is correct about the flag issue. Many Americans wear Irish, Italian, Polish, etc. flags as a link to the old country and their ancestry. As someone noted after 9/11, these were the ones who went charging up the stairs in the Twin Towers as people were trying to get out.

The idea of particularly Catholic and, later Jewish, Americans' divided loyalty to this country was raised in the Mexican War and has been blown to Hell in every war since, but some people still think they can get mileage out of it.

As for the birthers, I don't know if Barry was born in Hawaii or not; I do remember the Lefties trying to convince people McCain was disqualified because he was born in the Canal Zone. Clearly, though, Barry, hiding his birth cert, medical records, and academic transcripts, has something, possibly a great deal, to hide.

AlphaLiberal said...

Using white phosphorus on civilians, let alone fighters, is a cruel practice. Israel has now admitted to it.

Let me guess, American conservatives are all for it.

White phosphorus burns long after it enters the skin. It would be hopeful if we could agree on this being vicious and wrong.


The US Armed Forces have been using Willie Pete, as they call it in the Army, from WWII onward. Of course, you have a problem with it being used against Communists and terrorists, but how about the Nazis?

From Inwood said...

Jim

Excellent comment @ 11:21.

cookasia said...

AlphaLib: figures into End Times thinking and prophecies. Let's not forget those wind up with the Jews dead and Left Behind.

Well, that's not a true belief if you are a Catholic, but apparently you are not. And apparently you have signed off from here anyway... so adios....

Mick said...

narciso said...
"I think birtherism is a mugs game, myself, it is much more interesting
why he displays those seemingly anti American attitudes, who were his formative influences, like Frank Marshall Davis, Derrick Bell at Harvard Law, Foner at Columbis, (we rightly don't know) Alinsky, Wright, Ayers"


That is the aim of the Natural Born Citizen Requirement. It is Natural Law. If you are born in the US of 2 Citizen Parents, then blood and soil are unified to form a singular allegiance. The Framers added this security requirement to have the highest possibility that foreign influence does not enter the White House and that there would be a singular allegiance to the US SINCE BIRTH.

Beth said...

Uh, yeah, Jim. Sure. And added a bunch of weird crap about AGW and Al Gore and whoever - none of which came from me. You joust magnificently with the straw men in your fevered imagination, Jim.

Oligonicella said...

"We should have delved into Barack Obama's background and questioned him far more back in 2008."

Did you?

Oligonicella said...

Beth - deal. He brought up AGW as a comparison. Of course it didn't come from you. You're getting more lame as this goes on.

Quaestor said...

Speaking of Obama's putative academic achievement the WaPo quoting David Axelrod says that Obama co-authored a paper with Lawrence Tribe titled The Curvature of Constitutional Space which examines the "legal implications of Einstein's theory of relativity." Axelrod didn't specify which theory, though the title implies it's the General case.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/24/AR2010012403014.html



Evidently, Axelrod thinks name-dropping Obama and Einstein in the same paragraph will convince the rubes that our President is something other than an ill-educated mountebank.

Personally, I'd like a little time dilation effect between now and November 2012.

Beth said...

you are willfully ignoring fundamentalists of other types because you have a personal discomfort with the more divine religious beliefs while displaying an enormous comfort with more secular religious beliefs

Jim - quote me doing any of the above. Find my words and use them to support this. You won't and can't. I commented on End Times fundamentalism. Period. I also explicitly stated my own identity as Christian. You've invented a whole universe of things that I supposedly believe, or ignore, and gone off on a soapbox about them. That's typical of you. I've seen you do that many times. It's odd. It's unhinged. And it's dishonest.

Beth said...

0lig - no, he didn't. He laid out statements about AGW and asserted I believe those things because I'm "uncomfortable" with religious belief. He made shit up. Deal.

From Inwood said...

Jim

Further regarding your excellent points, I’m reminded of the old joke among Blacks:

“What do you call a Black with a PhD?”, the punchline being, of curse, the “N” word.

To paraphrase the joke, with two versions from a differing perspective:

(1) “What do you call a member of a more conservative religion who articulately expresses a thoughtful opinion which is contrary to Leftist Orthodox political opinion?, the punchline being another “F” word, here “fundamentalist”, with a sneer, of course.

(2) “What do you call a clerical member of a more conservative religion who articulately expresses a thoughtful opinion which agrees with Leftist Orthodox political opinion?, the punchline now being “the respected Reverend Wright, pastor of the respected ____________ Church for many years." "Or the revered Sister Scapular, a PhD who has been head of the influential Sisters of Perpetual Outrage for many years."

Here’s a NYT piece, Straddling Liberalism and Conservatism, about an anti-abortion, anti-in-your-face homosexuality, but otherwise bien pensant liberal, priest:

The church’s views on issues like abortion and homosexuality put Father Groeschel on the opposite side of the political spectrum from many who support his work for social justice.

“I used to be a liberal, if liberal means concern for the other guy,” Father Groeschel said. “Now I consider myself a conservative-liberal-traditional-radical-confused person.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/25WEpeople.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Father%20Groeschel&st=cse"

From Inwood said...

Sorry, here's the link to the NYT

link

Titus said...

I seriously just shit my pants. I took the rare clumbers out to go potty and I could feel myself pinching but I had no idea I was ready to explode.

The loaf went all the way down my pants leg and fell to the lobby of my fab condo place. The smell was unbearable. There was literally shit everywhere and I am not kidding.

Thank you for being there for me in my time of need.

I am waiting for a knock on my door for one of my fab neighbors to ask me if that was me who smelled up the place

Titus said...

I left some shit in the lobby too because I could only mop so much with my sweats.

I need to go back down there and the clean the rest of it up but what if someone sees me?

Help me fellow republicans.

Should I throw the sweats out or wash them that is the dilemma I am dealing with at this moment.

OK, I am heading down to clean the shit up. Wish me luck. And the rare clumbers are totally freaked out by the entire episode.

Brian said...

I'd get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside if Althouse, normally an intelligent person, just admitted she was an idiot to vote for Obama, instead of working herself into a frenzy after the fact, now that it's too late to do much about it.

Jim said...

Beth -

Are you now claiming that I was incorrect and that you are uncomfortable with AGW fundamentalists serving in government?

If so, it would be news to me and to anyone who has previously read your support of Obama and other Leftists who claim to ascribe to the anti-American beliefs of this fundamentalist secular religion.

However, I don't want to rule out the possibility that the cascading scandals which are literally blowing apart the claims made by Al Gore and the IPCC as nothing more than repetitions of unsupported claims by advocacy groups, conclusions from unpublished masters' levels dissertations on unrelated topics, outright fabrications, corrupt manipulations of the peer review process, etc., etc., have changed your mind about allowing these eugenicists anywhere near the levers of power.

Feel free to disavow Obama, his advisers, and your previous support for them at any time.

Upon your having done so, I will be more than happy to retract any association I made of your comfort level with the fundamentalist AGW religionists.

Until then, you're going to have to lie in the bed that you made.

Cedarford said...

Imagine the controversy is Sonia Sotomayor had shown up at her confirmation hearings wearing a little Puerto Rican flag pin.

And PR is not even a foreign nation but a US commonwealth with interests far closer aligned to us than any foreign nation.

=============
Earth to Mitch - The Birther biz is yesterday's long old story that the public has dismissed. You are just part of a noisy little group of true believers long since discredited by the People's votes and by Court decisions.

4 Presidents now have had foreign-born parents or a parent. Outside the whole pack of early Presidents "foreign born" or born to at least one non-citizen parent. Others accepted by the public and the courts (but not elected) were born in US territories or born overseas to at least one US parent (Goldwater, George Romney, John McCain, Lowell Weicker).

Several VPs like Spiro Agnew had an immigrant parent. Candidates like Ferraro, Lieberman.

Not running, but mentioned often as good past or future prospects are people born to immigrants, even one illegal at the time - Colin Powell. Or Bobby Jindal.

Basically, the message to the Birthers from both Parties, the courts, the public and even the Tea Party is: "Shut up and go away".

Alex said...

Honestly if Israel wants to expand its settlements that's their business. To the victor goes the spoils, no?

Trooper York said...

I think she just did it to piss off Cedarford.

Trooper York said...

She's a saucy little minx!

LonewackoDotCom said...

This is probably one of the few times I've heard Althouse making some sense, at least in parts.

However, like everyone else but me, she fails to understand the real utility of the birth certificate issue. All I need now is - to be very frank - someone who can dumb that down so that most people can understand it.

Nomilk said...

We should have delved into Barack Obama's background and questioned him far more back in 2008.


D'Oh! Now you tell us!

Titus said...

I just came back from a walk with the rare clumbers and someone in the building applied detergent to the floors. I also left a present of shit in the elevator which I did clean up.

I feel awful.

Group hug please.

Mick said...

Cederford said,

"4 Presidents now have had foreign-born parents or a parent. Outside the whole pack of early Presidents "foreign born" or born to at least one non-citizen parent. Others accepted by the public and the courts (but not elected) were born in US territories or born overseas to at least one US parent (Goldwater, George Romney, John McCain, Lowell Weicker)."


What, you didn't read my last response to your silly post about past POTUSs and VPs that were born to Non Naturalized parents? I Debunked them all. Except for the other Usurper, Arthur, who committed fraud, and is therefor not precedent, there is over 200 years of POTUSs and VPs that were Natural Born Citizens according to Vattel (born in the US to 2 US Citizen Parents. Only those granfathered in by A2S1C5 were not NBCs.

It is not illegal to run for POTUS if ineligible, that is what the 20th amendment is for (especially since the Secretaries of the various states have ceded their power to vet the candidates on their state ballots to the Political parties). The Electoral College failed to do it's duty and vet Obama.

As far as Jindal? Definitely not a natural Born citizen, since he was born in La. of Unnaturalized Indian Immigrants.

If you want me to abuse you again, list the names of those you think are different.

Mick said...

Cederford said,

"Several VPs like Spiro Agnew had an immigrant parent. Candidates like Ferraro, Lieberman."

You just can't get your head around the concept. To be a Natural Born Citizen your parents can be immigrants, but they must be Naturalized US Citizens before a child is born in the US for that child to be Natural Born Citizen.

traditionalguy said...

These are the times that try men's souls. To get a true perspective on Palin's lapel pins you first need to study the life and times of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who would have been 104 this past Thursday but for his resistance work as a Lutheran pastor and simultaneously in the Abwehr which was German Army Intelligence. (The U. of Wisconsin Public TV helped produce an award winning film on his career from 1939 until his hanging 3 weeks before Hitler shot himself). All of those Hitler is pissed off video clips on u-tube that are scenes in his bunker in April 1945 were really about Hitler's insane anger at discovering the Abwehr conspiracy among old line Military aristocrats who tried over and over to kill Hitler. Bonhoeffer wore two hats. He was a faith filled Christian and an accused Jew lover while he worked for the Abwehr conspiracy. His twin sister was married to a Jew. His mother was from the upper echelons of the Kaiser's court, and these men were never fooled by the low class cult magician Hitler's power over the masses thru propaganda showing Hitler as The New Caesar of the new Rome/Reich that came to replace the Jewish splinter religion's claim that a Jew called Christ was King. I always think of Palin as the one who was never fooled by Obama's magic.Also, I always think of Palin as a Traditional American that will never dump Israel any more that Harry Truman and Richard Nixon refused to dump Israel in a bi-partisan realisation that America needs Israel alive and well if American Christians expect to survive the next carefully planned extermination war. To Hitler and to Muslims their greatest vision of accomplishment is the murdering of the Jews followed by the murdering of the Christians. To Bonhoeffer and to Palin that requires 100% effort fighting back. That does not make Palin an agent of Israel anymore than HST and RMN were agents of Israel when as American Presidents they stood up for Israel's survival.

Mick said...

LonewackoDotCom said...

"This is probably one of the few times I've heard Althouse making some sense, at least in parts."


I guess you just disregarded the part where she presented the Federalist papers as proof that the rationale for the requirement of Natural Born Citizen POTUSs and VPs is National Security (to prevent foreign influence). If that were the case how do you rationalize the fact the you claim that anyone can crawl across the border, have a baby on US soil, and that child be eligible to be POTUS? If the aliens are Mexican, that child is born a citizen of MEXICO (and I gues the US but that's debateable) and has foreign influence at birth (thus the name Natural Born Citizen). Natural Born Citizen = Born in the US to 2 US Citizen Parents, thus blood and soil are of one attachment and allegiance.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Ann,
It sounds like you're looking for ways to justify your vote.

Sara said...

A year ago, the left was saying she was a Jew hater and then it was something else when a picture showed she had a small Israeli flag in her office. Now somehow she is less than patriotic because she is wearing a pin. She is a strong supporter of Israel, which, at least in my opinion is a very good thing and a good counterbalance to our anti-Semitic president and his minions.

See: Palin's Israeli flag

LonewackoDotCom said...

Mick:

Thank you for the literature, and I'll be sure to read it later. Now, really, I will. I'm sorry, but I really have to go since I have some frozen peas I have to get into the freezer. But, I'll read it. I promise.

Anyone else:

It's not enough to simply state something as a fact; you have to get others to agree with you. And, those like "Mick" have absolutely no plan to get others to agree with them or even get their ideas considered beyond leaving comments on blogs. And, that's just stupid.

Just take his flier and keep walking.

Mick said...

LoneWackoDotCom said,


"It's not enough to simply state something as a fact; you have to get others to agree with you. And, those like "Mick" have absolutely no plan to get others to agree with them or even get their ideas considered beyond leaving comments on blogs. And, that's just stupid"

Isn't everyone here to persuade others about ideas? Who made you the moderator? Apparently you are not smart enought to understand the material, or even research the possibility that it is correct. The BC is a red Herring, designed to obscure the real issue, that Obama's father was never a citizen. I've given multiple cites and proofs, even debunked thoughts that other POTUS' parents were not citizens when the future presidents were born. But I guess thats how Obama got elected, an uncaring electorate had facts directly in front of them that were seriously damning and chose to ignore them. What's funny is that the Kryptonite that will debilitate Obama is already apparent, but no one wants to use it. I gave plenty of facts and proof, you? NOTHING. WHERE does it say that simply being born in the US makes one eligible to be POTUS (SCOTUS cases, Federalist papers, quotes, Laws, etc...)

MnMark said...

With regards to the proof of his birthplace, Obama has successfully "Clintoned" the issue: stalled so long that the people asking (quite reasonably) to see his actual, doctor-signed birth certificate so that we know he is technically, LEGALLY entitled to be President, now look like they are foolish obsessives who should be ignored. Same way Clinton lied about Lewinsky for eight months until such time as the revelation that he actually WAS committing those acts no longer was certain to require his resignation and the people who were trying to hold the President to the high standards expected were dismissed as sex-obsessed and petty.

And thus what we can expect in terms of integrity from a President takes another hit, thanks to another Democrat, this time a practitioner of the 'Chicago Way'. Sounds like Rahm, doesn't it? "Just ignore the calls to release your original b.c. What can they do about it anyway? They can't make you release it, and thus they can't prove you're unqualified. After all, you're not unqualified unless they can prove you're not qualified."

Mick said...

MnMark said,

"After all, you're not unqualified unless they can prove you're not qualified."


We don't need the BC to prove that he is not eligible as a Natural Born Citizen. He has already admitted that his father was never a citizen, thus he was born a dual citizen whose Citizenship was "governed" (his words) by Britain. At BIRTH he owed allegiance to a foreign power
(see Dr. Althouse cite of the federalist papers). As such he cannot be an eligible Natural Born Citizen. The BC would then be needed to absolutely determine his paternity. If Obama 1 was his father, then he is not qualified.

Cedarford said...

Alex said...
Honestly if Israel wants to expand its settlements that's their business. To the victor goes the spoils, no?


Except for that set of little problems known as the Geneva Conventions and UN Charter that both the US and Israel signed onto. Which bar colonization of territory seized in war, post-1949.

Then the US signing UN Res 242.

And unfortunately, the US has, mostly wisely - found itself sucked into certain wars that can no longer be considered just the business of the invader and invadee.
Because they stand to jeopardize overall US interests in a global age.
Korea, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Saddams version of Arab Zionism directed against Kuwait, etc.

Israel is unfortunately another obligation we have taken on back when we were the dominant nation in most fields and could afford the luxury of being like the Brits before WWI hit them and WWII finished them off as a significant power.
Though Free Trade and China debts have begun the process where as our economic dominanace shrinks, our military dominance must naturally follow suit - and we have to question troops stationed in Korea and being the world's 9/11 service and open repository for unwanted, surplus 3rd and 4th Worlders.

The current situation is we back Israel and spend massive diplomatic capital keeping it afloat, have plenty of enemies created purely due to our kneejerk backing of Israel, and economic capital (missed opportunities in the Muslim world). If Israel ever said they wished to do as they want and thought they could survive w/o the US, and we said "fine" - the Muslims would choke off their oil and they would collapse inside 3 months.

george said...

The reason people glom onto the birth certificate thing is that Obama shows no signs of actually being an American. He does not understand any of the foundational principles of the country. He aligned himself with anti-Americans and Marxists his entire life. He shuns hard work and thinks nothing of never having held a job outside the realm of politics. He has a cargo cult like understanding of America and capitalism... or any issue of substance for that matter. He consoles our enemies and punishes our allies as if the past does not exist and the country has no history or interest of its own other than those ascribed to it or created for it by transnationalists. It is almost as if his sole knowledge of the country he leads comes from travel books written by moonlighting Pravda reporters during the height of the cold war. Heck, the only thing genuinely American about him IS his birth certificate.

But yeah, the double standard is pretty galling. Palin has almost literally had reporters and pundits crawling into her womb with lighted miner's helmets perched atop their heads (Hi Andy) and no one asked even the most basic questions about Obama when it still mattered.

Althouse is right that all we can do now is to judge Obama on his performance. I am sure the media and punditocracy will atone for it by examining Palin all the more closely... if such a thing is even possible. Palin is smart enough that I think she will have a lot of fun watching them tie themselves in knots over it.

I am already enjoying the moonbats like AlphaLiberal reduced to insulting the dominant religion in the US to score cheap rhetorical points. I bet AL doesn't even realize those points are going to the other side. And I say that as an atheist.

LoafingOaf said...

Brian said...
I'd get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside if Althouse, normally an intelligent person, just admitted she was an idiot to vote for Obama, instead of working herself into a frenzy after the fact, now that it's too late to do much about it.

Some of us accused Althouse at the time of the election of voting for Obama so she - as a blogger - could spend the next 4 years slamming everything he says or does and always have the claim, "Hey, I voted for him! I wanted him to succeed!"

As to the issue of the patriotism of candidates, I don't recall Althouse getting concerned over Todd Palin's involvement in the secessionist Alaskan Independence Party. And, of course, her commenters attacked anyone who raised that issue.

LoafingOaf said...

I guess I can understand why the right-wingers here weren't concerned over Todd Palin's membership in the secessionist Alaska Independence Party.

We saw te results of a poll of the GOP base last week which revealed:

QUESTION: Do you believe your state should secede from the United States?

YES: 23%
NO: 58%
NOT SURE: 19%


So, wanting one's state to leave the union, and thus wanting the United States of America to be broken up, is not an unusual view amongst those who would vote for Sarah Palin. Some patriotism.

traditionalguy said...

Loafing Oaf...The Tea Party uprising is a channeling of the same secessionist anger that arises when a free people are first ignored, and than lied to as if they are too stupid to figure it out, and then told that they are bad for being angry people when they are treated that way. So Palin is a great statesman/woman leading to a reconciliation of the alienated people that want a voice as if the government is theirs and can easily be replaced within the Constitution. (Also see, The War of the Great Rebellion.) Blessed are the peacemakers.

Almost Ali said...

Main Entry: jive turkey
Part of Speech: n
Definition: conman, bullshitter
Example: Hail to the jive turkey!
Usage: slang
Origin: Chicago
Tag: Obama

OldGrouchy Doug Wright said...

I wear a small "Maple Leaf" flag on my A2 lapel along with a small American Legion Rosette and a larger Star Spangled Banner. The Canadian Flag is to honor my Father's mother who was born in Canadian. The American Flag is to honor my country. And, while anyone may take whatever umbrage with the presence of the Canadian Flag, they're simply showing their ignorance and can kiss my Yankee Ass.

So, FWIW, and IMHO, Palin's double flag pin is honorable and her business. However, to some, that double pin may have more meaning than any real issue of policy or fact.

Lastly, that Obama seldom wore an American Flag on his suit coat during the campaign seemed not to bother any of the MSM or other idiot groups.

former law student said...

Anti-Iraq protesters. All of a sudden on January 20, 2009 they disappeared.

Wrong:

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/calendar?caltype=1&bydate=2009-02-04


I wonder if I can remember which political party controlled the State Department in the 30s....

FDR's State Department had the excuse of the immigration quotas established under the Republican sponsored Johnson-Reed Act of 1924, signed into law by Republican President Coolidge. Some quotas:

Armenia- 124

Austria- 785

China- 100

Czechoslovakia- 3,073

Danzig, Free City of- 228

Denmark (5, 6)- 2,789

Egypt- 100

Estonia- 124

Ethiopia (Abyssinia)- 100

France (1, 5, 6)- 3,954

Germany- 51,227

Great Britain and Northern Ireland (1, 3, 5, 6)- 34,007

Hungary- 473

India (3)- 100

Iraq (Mesopotamia)- 100

Irish Free State (3)- 28,567

Italy, including Rhodes, Dodecanesia, and Castellorizzo (5)- 3,845

Latvia-142

Liechtenstein- 100

Lithuania- 344

Luxemburg- 100

Monaco- 100

Morocco (French and Spanish Zones and Tangier)- 100

Muscat (Oman)- 100

Netherlands (1, 5, 6)- 1648

Norway (5)- 6,453

Palestine (with Trans-Jordan, proposed British mandate)- 100

Persia (1)- 100

Poland- 5,982

Rumania- 603

Russia, European and Asiatic (1)- 2,248

Sweden- 9,561

Switzerland- 2,081

Syria and The Lebanon (French mandate)- 100

Yugoslavia- 671


Criticizing America's failings -- slavery, racism, invading foreign countries that pose no danger to us -- is patriotic.

I was surprised that people are not familiar with the words of the great Catholic thinker and author, G. K. Chesterton.

Consider instead the further development of the phrase by the great German revolutionary, Madison lawyer, and Illinois Senator, Carl Schurz: "The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, “My country, right or wrong.” In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.

Left-wing critics of America are no less patriotic than right-wing critics.

To be a Natural Born Citizen your parents can be immigrants, but they must be Naturalized US Citizens before a child is born in the US for that child to be Natural Born Citizen.

Mick's logic leads inevitably to the conclusion that George Washington was not fit to be President because he was not a natural-born citizen, because his father's allegiance was to the British crown. Augustine sent his sons to be educated in England, where George's oldest brother became an officer in the Royal Marines. Mount Vernon itself took its name from a British admiral that George's oldest brother admired.

Jim said...

fls -

Just because the organizations still technically exist doesn't mean that they're still holding their weekly anti-Bush publicity stunts. Now that it's Obama in office, they've gone silent. To argue otherwise is to either be ignorant of reality or willfully deceitful. Unless you're copping to being completely ignorant, then I'm going to go with Option #2.

As far as being "stuck with" anything, FDR had control of both houses of Congress and could have changed immigration law any time he wanted to - and any Democratic lawmaker could have proposed a similar law. The plain fact is that they didn't do so at any point up to and including that time.

They weren't "stuck with" anything: they made a conscious choice not to take affirmative action when they had the chance. And FDR chose not to take unlateral action by executive order despite his willingness to do so whenever he wanted something done and his willingness to tamper with the judiciary branch of government when that suited his will as well.

Once again, you are caught in the web of your own deceit. You can't claim ignorance as an excuse as you obviously did enough homework to do some cut and pasting on the subject.

You really should have saved the time and effort though...you would have been much better off just appearing ignorant rather than hitting send and removing all doubt.

Gary Rosen said...

"Saddams version of Arab Zionism"

"Arab Zionism" - an inherent oxymoron, kinda like "C-fudd telling the truth"

Nichevo said...

C4, you don't have the power to upset me as you do Gary Rosen, but let me invite you to review and possibly walk back some of your claims there. I won't get into details and hair-pulling yet but a fellow like you who knows so much about everything would have to candidly admit to some discrepancies there. I speak of facts and not opinions.

Nichevo said...

Gary, no offense, but Cedarford has definitely got GPS tracking and a spare key to your goat. If you confine yourself to the exchange and debate of facts you will develop much less stomach acid.

Since he is not - open? what is the word I am groping for? - about himself, we will never be allowed insight into his foundations and the origins of his worldview, so there is no point in trying to figure out what sort of trauma so bent him into what he is. (He, of course, recognizes no trauma.)

Knowing his personal, social, ethnic, work history and so forth is not an option outside of high-effort detective work and is not really necessary. When he goes bashing nationalities it would be mildly amusing to chime in with the appropriate stereotypes for Cedarford (black laziness? Jewish greed? Unethical lawyers? Pampered Yankees? How about X penis size and Y hygiene, you XY blackguard with the PQ accent/dentition and N work ethic!), but this is a luxury and inessential. Your best option is to take his apparent insecurity to the bank and let it collect interest.

Take what you can get out of thee interactions. Among other things, he has the charming trait of knowing when he's licked. Get him to the point where he has nothing to say and, mirabile dictu, he will actually shut up, a virtue absent from many here.

Mick said...

Former law student said,

"Mick's logic leads inevitably to the conclusion that George Washington was not fit to be President because he was not a natural-born citizen, because his father's allegiance was to the British crown. Augustine sent his sons to be educated in England, where George's oldest brother became an officer in the Royal Marines. Mount Vernon itself took its name from a British admiral that George's oldest brother admired."



You don't know too much do you? George Washington Certainly Was NOT a Natural Born Citizen. He was born British (like Obama), and he was Grandfathered in by A2S1C5 ("Or a Citizen..."). The problem for Obama is that he was born after 1787.

Ann Althouse said...

"I wear a small "Maple Leaf" flag on my A2 lapel along with a small American Legion Rosette and a larger Star Spangled Banner. The Canadian Flag is to honor my Father's mother who was born in Canadian."

But you're not running for office. Picture Obama wearing a small Kenya flag on his lapel!

OldGrouchy Doug Wright said...

"But you're not running for office. Picture Obama wearing a small Kenya flag on his lapel!"

You're correct about that and correct as to the reaction, which might be the reason once he was elected, he took to wearing an American Flag lapel pin.

However, when Palin starts to run for office, and then wears just an American Flag Pin, will you bring up her double lapel pin?

If so, why not bring up Obama's lack of that pin and his not saluting the flag during his campaign?

Come on, even former (?) Obama supporters who haven't completely drunk his Kool-Aid need to acknowledge Obama's less than emphatic support for the country he should be leading!

Cheers!

Beth said...

If so, it would be news to me and to anyone who has previously read your support of Obama and other Leftists who claim to ascribe to the anti-American beliefs of this fundamentalist secular religion.

Jim, I've already asked you to provide examples from me advocating the AGW line. Instead, you just keep asserting things you have no evidence for, and then demanding I "disavow" things you ascribe to me without evidence.

I assert that you are a loon, and a troll. Disavow lunacy, right now. In public. Or go check yourself into a loony bin. I demand it.

Gary Rosen said...

"Gary, no offense, but Cedarford has definitely got GPS tracking and a spare key to your goat."

I'm not sure about that Nich. There was a little exchange on PJM a few months ago that went the other way ...

Nichevo said...

Did not see that exchange, but fine. Good, glad to hear it. I'm not saying he p3wns you, just that he isn't worth the agita you seem to display sometimes. It's not like he's right! To paraphrase IIRC Mayor Gaynor, is he really worth the powder it would take to blow him to hell?

Nichevo said...

"But you're not running for office. Picture Obama wearing a small Kenya flag on his lapel!"

What's your point, professor? He disdained the flag pin until he saw benefit in it. Maybe after he was elected, he was finally proud enough of his country to advertise it on his clothing?

Marylee said...

Pretrib Rapture Trivia

Who's the "Protector of the Principality of Pretribulatia"?
Edward Irving? John Darby? C. I. Scofield? Tim LaHaye? Someone else?
Media figure Joe Ortiz knows the answer. It's in his "End Times Passover" blog. The one dated Dec. 29, 2009.
If you're Calvinist, you're predestined to see his blog. If you're Arminian, you can choose to see it.
If you find out you already knew the answer before seeing Joe's blog, you have a chance to win the grand prize which includes:
Sixty pounds of plaster for each family member.
An umbrella stand made from a stuffed python.
And 3000 yards of used dental floss.
Whew. What you miss if you're not computer savvy!

Gary Rosen said...

"is he really worth the powder it would take to blow him to hell?"

Are you kidding? He's not worth the kleenex it would take to blow his nose. I just enjoy taunting him, a quirk/personality flaw of mine.

Blah said...

Completely agree. Palin's Israel pin bothers me quite a bit. As a potential presidential candidate, why would you go around wearing the flag of a foreign country? The Founding Fathers are probably rolling in their graves.