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There was a time when I'd pay a lot more attention to David Broder, but after his columns gushing all over Janet Napolitano and Chris Dodd, I'm not so certain about him anymore.
You're called, and you go. That's why we honor soldiers.We don't honor them more for being killed except through the speeches of clueless politicians.Being called and going is the form morality itself, and that's its connection to honor.So the bracelet thing defense is fighting the wrong enemy.
The clueless are beginning to get a clue.That's too bad.;)
The dilemma of the Sarah Palin Destroyer writer: She is 1)a disgusting ignorant pretender out for money that cannot remember what her message is; and she is 2) a master politician who makes all the right moves because she has a Secret Advisor. Talking with a forked tongue like that can cause whiplash of the tongue to these poor soldiers of the left.
Talking with a forked tongue like that can cause whiplash of the tongue to these poor soldiers of the left.Hardly, Tradional. The Left has been capable of this for 60-70 years...The War in Europe, is a Fascist Struggle of Late Stage Capitalism, and the Workers of the World Need to Oppose It (21 June 1941) to The War in Europe, is a Universal Struggle Against Fascism that All Right Thinking Intellectuals and and the Workers of the World Need Support UNRESERVEDLY (23 June 1941).And they've had lotsa practivce for the last eight years. Boosh is stoopit, but still maniacally and devilishly clever in that he master-minded 9/11. It didn't cause anyone's brain to explode then, it won't cause anyone's brain to explode NOW....Orwell got it right, "Oceana has ALWAYS been at war with East Asia."
"And then I do want to be a voice for some common-sense solutions."Hey, didn't the President say he was going to try a new concept- common sense- during the SOTUS.He was not derided for thinking that common sense is new concept was he?
Joe's right.There is no such thing as cognitive dissonance on the left.
Some on the right were willing to sacrifice the candidacy of John McCain in hopes of repeating the 1976-1980 scenario. While Obama is doing his best to remind us of Jimmy Carter, I hope no one is counting on Palin to be Ronald Reagan.Whatever her attributes, she's clearly not going to be ready by 2012, perhaps never. Not that anyone else will be either.
I have a silver bracelet that I got sometime in the 1980s. The inscription reads:Capt. Mark G. DanielsonUSAF 6-18-72 SVNI Googled his name and found out that his remains were found in 1993, and that he had a group burial in 1994 at Arlington.I detest more and more, these people looking for anything, anything to criticize Palin about.
Ironic that in the same paper thisBroder says she "wore thin" during the campaign. Looks like she may be wearing thin again.Cowbell.
I hope no one is counting on Palin to be Ronald Reagan.Heh. By the time Obama gets done turning this country into the Weimar Republic I'll settle for the next Gerald Ford.
"I hope no one is counting on Palin to be Ronald Reagan."She would do a better job than Obama if Palin turned out to be Ronald *McDonald*.
When Reagan was barnstorming giving speeches for GE, he read his speeches from 3x5 file cards. Sarah should try that instead of writing on her palm like a 7th grader.We don't honor them more for being killed You wanna repeat that to the American Gold Star Mothers, Inc.?Have you heard the phrase: All gave some, but some gave all?Do the words "supreme sacrifice" not resonate with you?
I detest more and more, these people looking for anything, anything to criticize Palin about.Same. Disagree with her politics I can understand but the absolute vitriol they have just is incomprehensible. I mean I can understand the ire towards Rush, Savage and Hannity because they just flat out say pretty inflammatory things. But what has Palin ever said that causes such hatred? I mean are they really that upset she birthed a Down's Syndrome baby? Are they upset she didnt' frog march her daughter down for an abortion?And spare me the 'she's dumb' crap. The current President and VP have said some of the most ignorant things (speaking Austrian????) imagionable yet that's ok.The left really needs to get over it's nauseating sense of self importance.
All gave some, but some gave allI doubt that you have a clue on what that means.
Sarah should try that instead of writing on her palm like a 7th grader.Funny cause my daughter is a 7th grader and knew FDR wasn't on television during the Great Depression, that there aren't 57 sates and that they don't speak Austrian in Austria.Maybe Obama and Biden are only as smart as 5th graders.
Sarah Palin infuriates liberals. Why? A lot of theories have been put forward. Here's mine. Senator McCain lost the presidential election for a number of reasons. One of them was that he was afraid to attack presidential candidate Obama directly. McCain never went after Obama for his awful associations with Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, and the whole cast of leftist loonies that Obama has since pretended to never have even known. McCain was afraid of being called a racist. That's why he feared calling out Obama. Don't ask me why, but a white man simply is not allowed to directly confront a black man. Those are the current rules... a white man who directly confronts a black man is, by definition, a racist. McCain knew he'd be called a racist if he went hard after Obama. So, he caved in. Palin can attack Obama directly. She does. Democrats can scream that she's a stupid redneck and that she's a breed sow with too many children... and they do. But, they can't scream that she's racist. To understand why, you have to consider another aspect of those current rules. Women are part of the great “oppressed.” Since she belongs to one of the Democrats' pet “oppressed” classes, Palin cannot be called out as a racist. Democrats are terrified of Palin because she is an effective opponent, and they don't have a curse word (“racist”) that will shut her up. I don't particularly care who's president. As I said, I prefer divided government because that's the best way to prevent politicians from doing anything. The less politicians do the better. The Republicans would be well advised to give Palin serious consideration for the presidential race in 2012, that is if they want to win. She can actually confront Obama and attack him directly. If the Republicans nominate another white man, that guy will have to operate under the same rules that crippled McCain. He'll have to live in terror of being labeled a racist. Yes, it's crazy shit. But those are the rules right now. Here's how crazy it is. Duke consistently starts four white players on their basketball team, and they're a legitimate contender for the national championship. White men are coming back big in basketball, both in college and pro ball. The Knicks played the Toronto Raptors a week ago, and six of the ten starters were white. We've been assured for a long time that white men can't possibly compete against black men in basketball. You'd think Duke's racial makeup would be news. After all, every “first” by a black player is trumpeted endlessly by the media.
As I said, I prefer divided government because that's the best way to prevent politicians from doing anything. The less politicians do the better. Then lets pray to Mother Gaia for more snow for DC.
People wear bracelets with all kinds of info on them for all kinds of reasons..The Idea that bracelets are exclusively used as military symbols is as idiotic as deriding a mother's pride for having a son serve in the arm forces.Oh wait...
Read through to the linked "crooks and liars" comments...wow...I need to wash my hands.I don't get the Palin hate either. I think she's OK in 2012 and would be better in 2016. I'm interested in her novel way of going forward in politics outside the traditional structure, and like some of her fiscal ideas, but I'm not passionate.My guess is that the president declared a Fatwah on her during the election (commence the two minute hate!) and his true believers can't let it go, especially since she continues in her apostasy.
I just noticed on the bracelet that I have the letters "CO" are on one of the ends. That's Danielson's home state.
Bad news when Broder praises you. He's usually wrong, and always boring.The left is after Palin because she's "dangerous" - she believes what she says, has charisma, and might get elected. Notice the MSM usually praised McCain before his nomination and hasn't said anything bad about Romney. They're paving the way for Mitt 'cause he's harmless and not a conservative. If elected he wouldn't change anything except be more friendly to big business.
The left is after Palin because she's "dangerous" - she believes what she says, has charisma, and might get elected. Yesterday I watched a link of Behar's show and she had Pam whatshername from Atlas Shrugged and Ronny Jr. and Ronny Jr. was lamenting how his dad would have despised Palin because she's stupid and didn't know anything about foreign policy.I actually laughed out loud because it was guys like him who were saying exactly the same thing about his old man. Despite being his son, I'm guessing he wasn't paying much attention back then.
Hoosier Daddy: Heh. By the time Obama gets done turning this country into the Weimar Republic I'll settle for the next Gerald Ford.Hoosier Daddy FTW!
How good is witnessed by the fact that she probably blew BambiCare out of the water with two words. She has been a bigger thorn in his side than the rest of the Republican Party, Scott Brown included.SteveR said... Some on the right were willing to sacrifice the candidacy of John McCain in hopes of repeating the 1976-1980 scenario. While Obama is doing his best to remind us of Jimmy Carter, I hope no one is counting on Palin to be Ronald Reagan.Hopefully, she would be better. Reagan talked the talk and stopped at that on a number of issues dear to Conservative hearts. He, like Eisenhower, gets more credit from them than he should. Miss Sarah, however, is a reformer and got into politics not because of ambition, but because she was concerned about her kids' education. Whatever her attributes, she's clearly not going to be ready by 2012, perhaps never. Not that anyone else will be either.I agree about 2012, but don't rule her out forever. Her best destiny may be Chairwoman of the RNC (as I say, she's a reformer first), but, if she ever gets a Cabinet post in a Republican Administration (Energy, perhaps) and does well, she could be ready for the top spot.
Heh. By the time Obama gets done turning this country into the Weimar Republic I'll settle for the next Gerald Ford.Hey now, I LOVED "Cabaret" & "Just a Gigolo" I'm going to have to rethink my opposition to Obama, now.
I say 387 before it's over.I say just over 150.. I dont want to go over ;)
2012?I don't think Althouse has ever commanded 2012 comments on any topic.. not even boobs.wv - fatetio
I think the rule that a white male confronting a black male is automatically a racist is wearing pretty thin by now. Not in so called mainstream newsrooms and not in faculty lounges but in the great unwashed country out there that is absorbing the blows of redistribution, "You're a racist!" equates to "He's on to our scam."
Don't ask me why, but a white man simply is not allowed to directly confront a black man. Those are the current rules... a white man who directly confronts a black man is, by definition, a racist.Hell, a white man can not compliment (e.g. articulate, Professor) a black man without being called a racist. Your best strategy is to just shut the hell up. Which is, of course, why the left does it.
Theo...If you bait the Israel haters, then sure the thread goes all night. Let's stick to her style. Is she arrogant for supposing that she could be a President in this Elite world of international money and politics. Or is that nonsense because nobody has a clue what China and Russia and The EU will do next. The will to win is really Sarah's secret ingredient, while the white male candidates have been spayed by media memes so that they cannot fight their way into the hearts of the Independents if running against Obama . IMO the only way to stop Palin from being the next President is for Hillary to get the Nomination and run against her. Hmmmm.
From the time she spoke at the RNC, Palin revealed herself to be mean, petty, and contemptuous. Then last year she showed she was a quitter as well. (She couldn't stand the heat, so she got out of the kitchen. Fine, assuming she never wants the office where the buck stops.) She tried to get her ex-brother-in-law fired for cheating on her sister, failed, and tried to use the power of her office to get him fired again.The puzzle is why do conservatives like her when she has all the personal charm and strength of character of Nixon. The only reason I can see is that she is pretty and has a trim figure. She does defend her family like a mother bear protects her cubs -- I have no problem with that until it leads her to act unethically.
I say just over 150.. I dont want to go over ;)Bad bet. Theo (or anyone else) can singlehandly make it go to any number they want by just talking to themselves.
From the time she spoke at the RNC, Palin revealed herself to be mean, petty, and contemptuous.Oh dear. Well if I refer to my leftwing translator that mean, petty, and contemptuous translates to 'she's a bitch'.
"We don't honor them more for being killed except through the speeches of clueless politicians."I'm reminded of the "last full measure of devotion" language in the Gettysburg Address. Lincoln may have been many things, but clueless, not so much.I would suggest everyone reading this thread go back and re-read the Address and think about what Lincoln was asking us to rededicate ourselves to, and how that resonates in today's politics, to wit: "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us ... that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth."For reasons I have never been able to figure out, I get really choked up everytime I read that speech. By that standard, favorable comparisons of any modern pol to Lincoln are seriously misguided.But as they say, read the whole thing:http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/gettyb.asp
The puzzle is why do conservatives like her when she has all the personal charm and strength of character of Nixon. Well that's interesting because I thought the same thing about Obama in that he has all the personal charm and strength of character of Che (as evidenced by his popular Che like posters) and then I realzied that's one of the role models of today's liberals so it fits.
I don't remember the exact date, but I do remember putting my tie on in our tiny apartment in West Warwick watching the channel 7 news out of Boston with lots of snow on the screen and not on the ground. There was Ronald reagan formally announcing his candidacy for president. I guess it was reported on the local news because of the NH primary. I laughed out loud. I was convinced that this guy was a dumb jerk who would go nowhere. From that point on and for many years after, the media vilified Reagan mercilessly. Trust me on this, whenever you hear a journalist or a politician who was around during those days praising Reagan, they are lieing. They all hated him and made no bones about it.Since then, even with the benefit of an Ivy League eduction, I've learned that there is a difference between being smart and being intelligent. Other things being equal, it might be better to be governed by smart people than by intelligent people. Some of our better presidents, FDR and Clinton come to mind, were both smart and intelligent. Some of our worst presidents, Nixon and Carter are good examples. There were some really great presidents who were not noted for their intelligence, but were very smart. Some examples would include Washington, Eisenhower, and Reagan.Obama does seem to be intelligent but not smart. Palin seems to be smart but not intelligent. That said, I cannot see myself ever voting for her because of what she represents - the resentments of white, small-town, small-minded, Protestants. I'd like to see her move away from playing to their issues. By quitting the governorship she branded herself as a talker and not a doer, although I suspect that she had to do that to protect herself against left-wing litigators consuming her time and resources.
That said, I cannot see myself ever voting for her because of what she represents - the resentments of white, small-town, small-minded, Protestants.What exactly are those resentments? I'm curious.
Forgot to add the thought that the media's baseless and vulgar criticism of Palin only adds to Palin's appeal. The next time someone in the media criticises the birthers, ask yourself when you ever heard anyone in the media criticise the disgusting witch hunt by a blogger on the pages of the "prestigious" Atlantic Monthly.
Re: Not getting the hate. The left hates her for the same reasons it researves that very special scorn for people like Clarence Thomas and Michelle Bachmann. She's a member of an "oppressed group" and she's a conservative. The left thinks that it owns minorities, women, and gays, and it is threatened by any outspoken member of the protected classes that doesn't toe their line. The left thrives on victims who believe that the Dems are the only relief from their horrible woes. Anyone who could cause those victims to question that must be destroyed by any and all means necessary. - Lyssa
mean, petty, and contemptuous translates to 'she's a bitch'.Calling someone a bitch could mean many things -- basically it just boils down to dislike.Seeing Palin attempting to pick up the mantle of Reagan is also hard to take, because Reagan was always gracious. The biggest personal skeleton in his closet was his divorce, which he did not initiate. If Palin had the personal charm and strength of character of Reagan, I would not be as afraid.
When Reagan was barnstorming giving speeches for GE, he read his speeches from 3x5 file cards. Sarah should try that instead of writing on her palm like a 7th grader.Yeah, that she managed to give a great 45 minute speech from 5-6 words written on her hand makes her some stupid little schoolgirl.FLS proves a point about the Left never letting anything like logical inconsistency get in the way.
My theory is that Ms Palin simply emasculates liberal men. Not that they had much capability to start with--except for JFK.
Not that they had much capability to start with--except for JFK.JFK is NOT a "liberal man," certainly not by the modern John Kerry, Michael kinsley, Al Gore definition.
veni: "The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it" - note that Lincoln says the men who struggled consecrated Gettysburg - living and dead.Not that those who died are more worthy that those who happened to live, which is what "honored more for being killed" implies.I think Lincoln reinforces rhhardin's point - it's that one risked death for one's country and cause that gains the honor, not the accidental fact of having died versus having survived.(The only exception I can think of is those who deliberately chose a suicidal or nearly suicidal action in defense of their comrades or to win the day, as in the case of the posthumous Medal of Honor recipients.They get extra honor not for dying, but for sacrifice and risk "above and beyond".)
Joe--you are correct: JFK was a tax cutter, and strong on defense--he would look more like Ronald Reagan than Barack Obama--but I don't expect modern liberals to even understand JFK (but I guess the guy was a sex machine--he boinked every woman including mafia dolls and east german spies)
If both sides didn't have so many bogeymen, what would the blogosphere talk about? Do you notice that maybe 90% of the argument is over stuff nobody either really minds or wants to defend. The fight is often over it being brought up and that argument never gets resolved or even moved. And round it goes. It's like Soma.
Small town protestants resent big city protestants who claw their way to the top, those pushy bastards! It's insidious the way those small town protestants won't side with their own against the papists!!!
Glad you asked Hoosier Daddy. Resentments of free markets, good education, open immigration, and succesful people who don't look like us motivate the Republican base. Because of that this country is led to ruin by feckless and free-spending Democrats. People like Tancredo, yeah I know he is probably a Catholic Italo-American, narrow and cap the potential for any Republican to save this country from the left. The people who cheered Tancredo define "American" as a white person who lives in a small town and goes to church on Sunday. A brown-skinned atheist who lives in a big city would be excluded from their definition of American. Palin seems to be flirting with those who think that way. Is it because she shares their beliefs or is it because it is a canny way to win Republican primaries? Either way, I don't like it because immigration and free markets that allow talent to flourish are our only hope.
I don't see anyone against "immigration" Palin and others are against *illegal* immigration. Rule of law and all that. And I wonder why, if unrestricted immigration is such a great thing, why its advocates don't change the immigration laws to fit their open borders philosophy.After all, according to the open borders crowd - the only ones who would object are small town fundies clinging to their guns and religion.
Seeing Palin attempting to pick up the mantle of Reagan is also hard to take, because Reagan was always gracious.I must have missed where Palin said that I'm your new Reagan. Or is that just what you're projecting?
"Resentments of free markets, good education, open immigration, and succesful people who don't look like us motivate the Republican base."Ha ha ha ha!Prejudiced much? Bet every time you see a pickup truck you hear the theme from "Deliverance" going through your head. I have to assume you've found a place to live where you don't have to walk in fear to get your latte. I taunt because I have contempt for your worldview. Resentment, no.
don't like it because immigration and free markets that allow talent to flourish are our only hope.Straw man...the opposition is ILLEGAL immigration. Almost all folks, save those in the Klan or named Running Red Bear, welcome immigrants to this nation. What we object to is tens of millions coming in ILLEGALLY, and then finding that our taxes must support these illegals, whilst businesses AND liberals exploit the Illegals.Businesses to reduce wages, limit workers compensation and safety complaints, after all how can you complain when the "boss" can call La Migra and ship you home....Liberals by exploiting the illegals by seeking their vote, with promises of lot from the public treasury, all the while proclaiming, that America is a racist, sexist, homophobic place, so please don't assimilate.Small town America has little enough problem with Jesus, or Serge, as long as they came here legally...I would further argue that small town America has as much or little faith in Free Markets as Big City Americans. I didn't see my local credit union begging DC for hand-outs as "Too Big to Fail" and making sure to send millions to the "right" candidate(s), Obama, and Schumer and Frank in order to grease the ways for their bail-outs. Nor do I recall anyone factory in my area asking for "loans" and "special bankruptcy" procedures that ignore established law and give special deals to the unions....and making the US taxpayer the new owner, and the political class the new managers of these firms.So, whilst I might admit that small town America may not love Free Trade and Free Markets, when it hurts HTEM, I really don't see Big City America being any more accepting. The difference is, Big City America, being more democratic and more politically influential gets the greater benefit of government intervention and largesse.
When Reagan was barnstorming giving speeches for GE, he read his speeches from 3x5 file cards. Sarah should try that instead of writing on her palm like a 7th grader.Yeah, that she managed to give a great 45 minute speech from 5-6 words written on her hand makes her some stupid little schoolgirl.It's so amusing to read the comments complaining about Palin writing a few words on her hand for a speech. They think that proves she's stupid. However, they're very silent about the fact that Obama can't even go talk to a bunch of 6th graders without TWO teleprompters! If having a few words written on your hand proves Palin is stupid, then depending on two teleprompters must mean Obama is a certified moron.
@Roger J. "JFK was a tax cutter, and strong on defense--he would look more like Ronald Reagan than Barack Obama"I think you've bought into a set of talking points that are not grounded in reality. Obama has cut taxes. Over $300 million of the Obama stimulus package took the form of tax cuts. And he has been strong on defense. He sent more troops into Afghanistan. He has scrupulously followed the advice of the generals. The Republican position sometimes seems to be "whatever a democrat is in favor of, we're against."
I've been skeptical of Palin but NO MORE!I now see things for what they are. Palin is a superb combination of the best qualities of Washington, Lincoln, Reagan... and especially Teddy Roosevelt, from whom she inherits the populist banner.Why stop at making her President?She should be made EMPEROR FOR LIFE!That'll make sure that Republicans remain in control and those nihilist communist death-worshiping Democrats are finally conquered! We can make sure that our Jesus-loving friends at Blackwater/Xe/whatever have a blank check, and that heroes like Senator Richard Shelby can achieve what they try so bravely to stand up for now! We can make sure that God is put in his rightful place in this country-- Emperor Palin will ensure that any avowed nonbeliever or raghead is sent to a newly expanded Gitmo where they will be tortured! 'Cuz torture is FUN!!! And it need not be limited to those caught on the "battlefield"-- we need to start torturing the heathens who are poisoning our country from within! Maybe we can even put the torture sessions on the Internet so we can all join in the sensory delights!YAY SARAH!After all, if Obama is turning America into a Wiemar Republic, then this is the next step, isn't it?I tell you, my fellow Althousian Rightists: We need to get behind Palin for Emperor, seizing this opportune moment to put our agenda in place once and for all!
@FLS, you scored a perfect trifecta! Three out of three posts demonstrate that you don't get it.
@c3 WaPo polls are a joke, and this one's Palin approval numbers are obvious bullshit. The pollster.com average has her approve/disapprove far closer at 43-46, with a trend line that is sharply positive:http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/fav-palin.php
What is "good education" a euphemism for?There's someone, somewhere, who isn't for good education?
Palin doesn't nave to make any claims for herself -- others have already done so:Welcome Back Dad By Michael Reagan September 4, 2008 I've been trying to convince my fellow conservatives that they have been wasting their time in a fruitless quest for a new Ronald Reagan to emerge and lead our party and our nation. I insisted that we'd never see his like again because he was one of a kind. I was wrong! Wednesday night I watched the Republican National Convention on television and there, before my very eyes, I saw my Dad reborn; only this time he's a she. And what a she! In one blockbuster of a speech, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin resurrected my Dad's indomitable spirit and sent it soaring above the convention center, shooting shock waves through the cynical media's assigned spaces and electrifying the huge audience with the kind of inspiring rhetoric we haven't heard since my Dad left the scene. This was Ronald Reagan at his best -- the same Ronald Reagan who made the address known now solely as "The Speech," which during the Goldwater campaign set the tone and the agenda for the rebirth of the traditional conservative movement that later sent him to the White House for eight years and revived the moribund GOP. Another Palin supporter, using my exact phrase:Make no mistake, our lady from the north is laying the groundwork and doing the homework necessary to pick up the mantle of Reagan in 2012.You betcha! http://govpalin2012.blogspot.com/2009/11/palin-reagan-covers-strikingly-similar.html
Glad you asked Hoosier Daddy. Resentments of free markets, good education, open immigration, and succesful people who don't look like us motivate the Republican base. Huh? The Republican base is resentful of free markets and good education? This is news to me. Open immigration? That sounds a lot like open borders and I’ll be the first to say I’m proud to oppose that. We have immigration laws and I think it’s important that they be followed and not waived for specific group of people. Good education? Is that why GOP opposed vouchers for those who want their kids out of failed schools? Oh wait…The people who cheered Tancredo define "American" as a white person who lives in a small town and goes to church on Sunday. A brown-skinned atheist who lives in a big city would be excluded from their definition of American.Really? As opposed to a white skinned atheist that would be acceptable? Last time I checked conservatives tend to overlook skin color when the person under it holds the same value system as they do. Maybe that’s why a Condi Rice, or Thomas Sowell or JC Watts are hailed and respected by those small minded WASPs and called Uncle Toms or House Ni**ers by liberals. Too bad the facts don't match your bigoted sterotype.
Three out of three posts demonstrate that you don't get it.Maybe if you could describe the Empress's clothes for me just one more time.
Trust me on this, whenever you hear a journalist or a politician who was around during those days praising Reagan, they are lieing. They all hated him and made no bones about it.Having been politically aware by the time Reagan was President, I get a particular kick out of the grudging respect shown him today. The young ones don't know any better, but the older ones surely know of the open contempt with which he was treated in the media. It is, in fact, pretty similar to what they're doing to Palin today (not that I expect Palin to turn out to be the second coming of Reagan).
Palin doesn't nave to make any claims for herself Evidently not since you claimed it yourself. Until Palin claims it herself, all you and others are doing is projecting.Reagan was Reagan.
It's so amusing to read the comments complaining about Palin writing a few words on her hand for a speech. They think that proves she's stupid.Funny how Palinites read the word "stupid" into a comment about age-inappropriate behavior. Seventh graders are not stupid.
fls wrote: Have you heard the phrase: All gave some, but some gave all?Do the words "supreme sacrifice" not resonate with you?Not meaning to pick on fls here, but I've always despised these shibboleths.I don't a single one of the Marines in my battalion that were killed or maimed that considered that they were giving anything. Maybe they do, I won't speak for them. But it seems to me that they weren't giving. Their lives and their legs were taken, not given. It wasn't a sacrifice (as though sacrifice to an enemy is a good thing). It was a result of enemy action. They would have much preferred to have stayed alive and intact and kill the enemy instead.If, heaven forbid, I should ever suffer that fate of geing killed or wounded, I hope no one ever accuses me of giving anything away. I will not die willingly, and I don't think that my dying is to anyone's benefit. It might happen nonetheless, but it's not intentional to be sure.
Palin Haters are okay with Obama reading EVERYTHING from a teleprompter VERBATIM but yet, they are going crazy over Palin having a few crip talking points written on her palm.Who is the more capable person here?
Amazing that lefties like FLS can't bring themselves to give even faint praise to Palin. They MUST demonize her 24/7 and that is their weakness. Because when you're busy attacking non-weakness you leave your flank exposed to attack.
FLS...You are myopic if you can only see her attractive exterior, as if it's a negative, and completely fail to notice her attractive interior character in courageously standing up to the Obamunists. Do you think that someone else writes her Face Book Postings? That will to win is what attracts her following. It is a will to win for us and not for the downtrodden around the Globe and the New Aristocracy that has taken control of issuing US Fiat Money out of DC to everbody except American Employers.
Sy - but but Obama was a Constitutional law professor! Take that!
Re: Reagan, Palin, and the Mainstream Media. The similarities in their treatment by the media are remarkable. Reagan was portrayed as more of an idiot than Bush was portrayed. And a warmonger to boot. They used to call him "Ronald Raygun." The animosity toward Palin is even worse, though. They never attacked the Reagan kids the way they've gone after Palin's. I can't understand why anyone, let alone editors at once respected media outlets, thinks it is acceptable to jeer at someone for having a pregnant daughter or a Down's syndrome child. And yet, long before the Katie Couric interview and the Tina Fey parodies, that's what they did.
You all do understand that the writing on the hand was for the Q and A and not for the speech. She had cards and a teleprompter for the speech. The speech was not extemporaneous, it was memorized and note carded and telepromptered. Now, I am not a Palin fan, I feel she is an empty vessel and that people should not be fooled by her but... she didn't do anything that anyone giving a speech wouldn't do. Cut the chick some slack. There is plenty about her not to like, just not this.Also, i get terribly suspicious about anyone who waxed poetic about ANYONE.Vicki from Pasadena
bagoh20 said...Do you notice that maybe 90% of the argument is over stuff nobody either really minds or wants to defend. The fight is often over it being brought up and that argument never gets resolved or even moved. And round it goes. It's like Soma.That's certainly true.But what about the environmental cost?We're told that a Google search uses enough electricity to boil a cup of water. How much electricity is consumed by Palin comments?Something that is no doubt better for you if you must use precious electric current to feel better, is to make a nice pot of tea and curl up with a good book.You'll have used 3 or 4 comments to heat the water, and maybe only 1 to read by, even less if you are green enough to use a CFL.I know I'm commenting no more and saving electricity for a pot of coffee.And, yes, the division between tea- and coffee-drinkers is something else we could go round about, inspiring as they each are to bug-eyed chatter.
This is not about Palin. It never was. Obama was going to win the election, no matter who ran against him and no matter who the oppo VP was.They could have resurrected Reagan, and Obama would still have won. The marginalized, isolated, demeaning, debasing, hatred against Palin was purely manufactured by the Alexrod(O's Karl Rove).BTW, if certain words or phrases used to criticize Obama can be considered racist by the head exploders, why can't the same be true about Palin. They are using code words for their sexist and misogynous ideology.There was one little problem. They trashed her so bad they created a martyr figure. Since Obama is tanking in the polls, she looks better and better to many.wv:toromp=meadhouse in the garden
Yup by now no one except the leftie lunatics remembers Palin's stumbles during the campaign. Instead she's a rising, towering figure on the political landscape. Every attack on her only makes her stronger.
"And he has been strong on defense. He sent more troops into Afghanistan. He has scrupulously followed the advice of the generals."I don't think that's all there is to it. I also wasn't at all impressed with Obama's insults and braggadocio related to Pakistan during the campaign. And even though it's my boys (and girls) who are most likely to be flying the remote controlled bombing of villages of stone huts, I don't see that as a *good* thing. Death from a distance is... ethically fraught. It has its place, but just like in the Balkans, I worry that we only look at *our* reduced risk and favor the tactic mostly because it removes our politicians from political risk, rather than because it's the tactic most suited to the goal.I worry that it's too easy to buy some "strong on defense" creds by bombing the shit out of poor villagers.Oh, and "scrupulously following the advice" isn't as great as it sounds either. The Generals aren't the boss. Obama is. The goals and direction of the war are HIS decision to make. The General's advice is limited to how best to use the military to reach those goals.Obama asserting himself by taking his time before finally getting around to saying, "Yeah, what you said, do it," is also pretty dang lame.
Resentments of free markets, good education, open immigration, and succesful people who don't look like us motivate the Republican base.Where do you get this stuff? I though Air America was off the air.
How is Obama strong on defense? By getting rid of DADT which our military folks do not want him to do? Or gutting defense systems? Or throwing more troops in hopeless Afghanistan? Obama is an amateur.
Coke head wrote:That said, I cannot see myself ever voting for her because of what she represents - the resentments of white, small-town, small-minded, Protestants. Yeah, because those people are just so unamerican, right?
Since then, even with the benefit of an Ivy League eduction, I've learned that there is a difference between being smart and being intelligent.FAIL.
BTW, according to the left, WASPs are not Americans anymore.
@t-guy:It is a will to win for us and not for the downtrodden around the Globe and the New Aristocracy that has taken control of issuing US Fiat Money out of DC to everbody except American Employers.By "us" you mean us Judeo-Christian Americans, right? I hope you aren't including the atheist heathens that have so spoiled our country; they aren't Americans and they shouldn't even be alive and they most certainly aren't part of "us".And, for "American Employers", you mean the big ones, right? Because the small ones are not important to "us". Especially the self-employed and small business owners who can just go fuck themselves... they haven't hired lobbyists to come visit our elected officials and give money to the Holy Cause, so why should we care?
Thanks victoria.I don't think she had a teleprompter though, I certainly saw nothing on the stage and no place that her speech could have been projected when the camera scanned part of the room. It's possible she had one hiding somewhere but I think she just had the written speech.I'm not saying that because I figure no one should ever use one.
The only reason I can see is that she is pretty and has a trim figure.Just like Obama!
"How is Obama strong on defense? By getting rid of DADT which our military folks do not want him to do?"But he hasn't gotten rid of it.
What exactly are those resentments? I'm curious.They bitterly cling to American values of self determination, personal responsibility, individualism, self interest, personal wealth, and hard work.
Synova exclaimed: Death from a distance is... ethically fraught.Death from a distance may be ineffective and incapable of winning a war, but it is not in the least bit ethically fraught. You win a war by controlling people and places. You can really only control them by standing where they are.But to be able to get to the point of being able to stand there, drones and B-17's are excellent aids. I'll take all the air support I can get, manned or unmanned. Kill the enemy and his power, that's the only thing that really matters. Drones are ethically fine.
Maybe if you could describe the Empress's clothes for me just one more time.Maybe if YOU could describe the emperor's clothes?
Broder is right in this: those who slam Palin for writing on her hand or the bracelet she wears aren't telling us anything about Sarah Palin. They are, however, telling us something about themselves. And since there's nothing new about what they're telling us (their reaction has been the same since she hit the national stage), just reinforcing it over and over isn't very attractive, and it's already gotten old.More importantly, Sarah Palin certainly seems to be having fun. Republicans are having fun in politics right now, and Democrats aren't (as a general rule.) Railing against Sarah Palin in this fashion only demonstrates that they're not having fun. Per Broder, the proper strategy seems to be either to engage seriously or ignore completely. Engaging frivolously doesn't seem to have a good rate of return.
Not making it to 387 without loafingoaf.
Why is she so feared, and, as evidenced by our liberal posters here like FLS, loathed and hated?I would agree that part of it is an officially oppressed minority who is conservative, and in this case, unashamably conservative. And agreed that this may tie into the fact that she can attack President Obama, whereas a white male like McCain could not.I think though there is more. How can someone so officially dumb start the demise of ObamaCare with only two words, "Death Panels"? There are a lot of interesting political demographics that have turned up over the last couple of years. One is that Obama pulled the rich and the poor, the least educated and the most educated (those w/o HS diploma, and those with graduate degrees). But McCain/Palin pulled the middle, notably those with between a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree. The poor are in the Democrat's camp for the money, pure and simple. As are the government employees. All on the public dole. And the rich and best educated seem to buy into the theory that someone has to guide the masses through life, and they are just the ones to do it. And, Obama being of their class, made them even happier to support him. Instead of a doctorate degree from an Ivy League college, Palin has a bachelor's degree from a no-name state school - just like a distinct majority of the college educated in this country.Another trend are what some are calling the Jacksonians. Primarily Scottish descent living in a belt on either side of the M/D line well into the mid-west. They were reliably Democratic up until Reagan. Obama, being an elitist, typically does horribly with this demographic. This is where Hillary was trouncing him during the primaries. Which is humorous, since she is almost as elitist as Obama, but not quite. My theory there is that she is married to Bill Clinton, who has the elite credentials, but can pull of the good-old-boy with the best of them. By the election though, they swung back behind the Democratic nominee, and he won.But one of the things that the MSM tried hard to hide during the election was that Palin just lights this demographic up. This is one of the places where she was a rock star wherever she spoke. She speaks their language like few politicians have in the last couple of decades. I should note that this demographic is one of those that has swung the hardest to the right since the 2008 election, and was instrumental in the VA, NJ, and MA state level races that the GOP won. Winning just this demographic alone may not win the Senate this coming election, but if a Palin can light it up and win it as handily as it is now going GOP, Obama loses VA, PA, OH, maybe MI, and through the mid-west, and thus, the election. But the allure is even stronger. Many of the Democrats in politics are elitists. Ivy League educated, or just wannabes. And thinking that they need to be leading the rest of us. Everyone is equal, but some more so, but only for our benefit. But most of the country who went to college don't have Ivy League doctorate degrees, as do the current inhabitants of the White House. And while many gave those elitists the benefit of the doubt in 2008, all that vaunted expertise and superiority led the Democrats into doing a lot of things that most of us know were between silly and stupid. No common sense. The Jacksonians are the ultimate anti-elitists. But there are a lot more across the country - probably a distinct majority. This is esp. true of those with maybe a bachelor's degree from state colleges and universities. They know that an Ivy League degree doesn't buy you common sense, and really don't trust their motives or expertise. Again, Palin talks to this demographic much better than does President Obama, or, indeed, most of the Democrats in Washington.
Finally, I think that her ability to talk around and through the self-appointed guardians of the minds of the masses, esp. the MSM, infuriates the left to no end. She doesn't accept their role as arbiters of what the masses see and how they think. And so, she effectively ignores them, for the most part. How do the Democrats counter that? In the past, their friends in the MSM managed to slant the news so as to get their friends in politics elected. But this isn't working with Palin. They can't shut her up. Her message continues to get through, and the more she is demonized, the better she looks.
former law student said... It's so amusing to read the comments complaining about Palin writing a few words on her hand for a speech. They think that proves she's stupid.Funny how Palinites read the word "stupid" into a comment about age-inappropriate behavior. Seventh graders are not stupid.You personally may not have used the word stupid to describe her but many, many of the Palinphobes on the left use the word regularly.I guess you consider depending on teleprompters to talk to a bunch of 6th graders as being "age appropriate." I consider it being dependent on a crutch. He's a lousy speaker without his crutches.Obama has cut taxes. Over $300 million of the Obama stimulus package took the form of tax cuts.From what I've seen, many of those so-called tax cuts went to people who aren't paying taxes. In other words, they were just another handout. My taxes certainly didn't go down last year. One little trick he pulled was to lower the income tax withholding rate so my take-home pay was a few dollars higher. However, the tax liability didn't go down. I'll have to pay that money back this April. Gee, thanks for nothing.
@AlexObama's defense budget (which he worked closely with Sec'y Gates to develop) called for $534 billion in defense spending (not including the additional money for the wars). That represents a 4% increase over the amount appropriated in FY 2009. They eliminated some wasteful spending projects and reallocated that money (plus some) on other priorities. That sounds to me like the sort of clear-headed, fiscally-responsible governing that Republicans used to support...until they decided to throw away all their principles.
Viki from Pasadena - I feel the same way. When I saw Obama telling the story of a campaign worker buried in an Obama t-shirt, I thought how SAD. Those who make politicians their heros are fools.
Obama has cut taxes. Over $300 million of the Obama stimulus package took the form of tax cuts.Was that suppose to be billion?
I feel the same way. When I saw Obama telling the story of a campaign worker buried in an Obama t-shirt, I thought how SAD. Those who make politicians their heros are fools.Oh, they tell a lot of those stories. People with no sense believe them. They are great story tellers. The problem is we never know if the stories are true.
Obama has cut taxes. Over $300 million of the Obama stimulus package took the form of tax cuts. And he has been strong on defense. He sent more troops into Afghanistan. He has scrupulously followed the advice of the generals.Oh, come on. Do you really believe any of that? Do you really believe that refundable tax credits to people who don't pay federal income taxes are tax cuts? Most would consider those to be transfer payments. How about Clunkers for Cash? Credits for first time home buyers? (who can actually afford their houses - during this recession?)
Why is she so feared, and, as evidenced by our liberal posters here like FLS, loathed and hated?Our liberal posters like FLS have good reason to fear her and our new conservative Christian movement!Recall how Obama used his force of personality and salesmanship to get elected... and then he started pushing the ideologocial agenda of his backers, trying to reshape America in his image?Well, Palin provides our chance to do the same thing to them!!!Revenge is sweet!Palin will lead a new conservative charge into politics, powered by the force of her personality. Then we'll do the same thing to America that the Leftists did! It'll be our country-- we'll pay off the people who supported our side, we'll put big government programs in place to make sure those payoffs continue in perpetuity, and we'll make living and business as difficult as possible for those scumbag Leftists!Tremble now, FLS!You have less than three more years before we Palinites make life a living hell for you and your ilk!
I'm very pro-Air Force. That's my service after all. It's not the effectiveness or even the total and overwhelming destructive power or even the fact that pilots and operators are not face to face with the enemy and *not* even the inevitable collateral damage no matter how accurate the technology gets that leads me to have concerns.It's how easy it can be for politicians to make the choices they make sometimes when they don't have to face the prospect of political backlash for getting our people killed. (Much much better *not* to, of course, something doesn't become *more* moral on account of loosing our people.)That bothered me a lot with Clinton in the Balkan conflict. We started into that with a "take no risk" policy. Americans went along with it, pols voted for it. Would they have if Clinton had said that in order to reach our goals we had to send the Army?By "fraught" I only mean that there is this other element to consider for those *not* on the ground. And I don't trust anyone who is at heart anti-military to have thought it through. I just expect them to issue the orders.
"Resentments of free markets, good education, open immigration, and succesful people who don't look like us motivate the Republican base."Heh! What a dopey comment.How's the cause of free trade agreements going lately? They've passed with bipartisan support, but they haven't enjoyed such great backing from President Obama and the harder left of his party.Meanwhile, anyone remember how successful Pat Buchanan was in rallying Republicans to the anti-free trade cause?"Good education..."? Are you kidding me? Who do the government-school monopolists line up with? Meanwhile, the base of the GOP is a lot more likely to favor Christian or Catholic schools, vouchers or the like, and homeschooling. "Successful people..." Hahahaha. Whose been making a stink about obscene profits, bonuses and executive salaries?"Open immigration." A partial point here, insofar that it's valid that conservatives favor secure borders. I'm pretty sure a lot of moderates and not-doctrinaire liberals and others who are Ds, not Rs, feel the same.That said, it's not clear that running against immigration has been such a good cause for GOP candidates. No presidential candidate has done well on the issue. What Senate or Congressional candidate has done well on this?
Sy said... Palin Haters are okay with Obama reading EVERYTHING from a teleprompter VERBATIM but yet, they are going crazy over Palin having a few crip talking points written on her palm.The problem for the PDS crowd is that Barry can't even read a TOTUS speech. After all, he blew corpsman not once, but three timesBruce Hayden said... Why is she so feared, and, as evidenced by our liberal posters here like FLS, loathed and hated?She's got the Lefties' number. She's got the attributes to lead the kind of generational shift in politics, economics, and social policy FDR did, riding on extreme public discontent.
However, the tax liability didn't go down. I'll have to pay that money back this April. Gee, thanks for nothing.And you would be stunned to know how few people actually know this.Good thing I married an accountant.
About the bracelet...Seems strange to me to attack her over this--off limits.Her son serves honorably in our military, as does Vice President Biden's son. We're all grateful and we honor them for their service and we honor the parents for supporting them. End of story.I don't much care for Vice President Biden, but I feel the same about him. Apparently, he has the exact same bracelet. If he wears it, I have nothing to say about it except thanks and God be with all our defenders.
After all, he blew corpsman not once, but three timesI'm still trying to comprehend that one. I mean I never thought he was the great intellectual that the left paints him to be but corpseman is just downright, flat out ignorance of the highest order.
FLS, perhaps Michael Reagan has changed his view since Sept 2008. That was 18months ago. He may be more open to changing his mind that you are. Sarah Palin brought the house down the night of her convention speech - everyone thought a star was born. Andrea Mitchell thought so and was quite upset about it. She's still upset. People like her who spend so much time being enraged by her look very silly.
@Larry JThe tax cuts in the stimulus package included things like: an $800 tax credit for working families; $250 tax credits for certain disabled seniors and veterans; an increase in the child tax credit; increases in the earned income tax credit; tax credits for first time home buyers; a deduction for the sales tax on new vehicle purchases; a suspension of the taxation of unemployment benefits; an increase in the alternative minimum tax exemption; acceleration of depreciation schedules for businesses; renewable energy tax credits; alternative energy tax credits; changes in the way that businesses treat cancellation of debt as income.Just because you personally may not qualify for some of these tax reductions doesn't mean that they don't exist.
JRH...The atheists are welcome and valued. They may make up the largest demographic. Tolerance is a part of the Scots-Irish Culture that started and still maintains control in this Republic after 223 years. Hindus like Jindal see its value and freely join in. Small employers get their breaks when the taxes on "Wealthy " earning over 350 thousand a year stay down. The business cycle more than ever needs a strong middle class with strong savings ethics raising educated children. So says the Catholic Church, and they are correct. The only cheers for Obama, other than for his great election breaking the skin color barrier which is all that elected him, are coming from Chavez, FARC Ortega, Zelaya and the Castro dictatorship which all seek the destruction of American society as revenge for what Dutch Reagan did to crush their best laid schemes. Palin is not a Marxist. She is a centrist because she is a real leader. Attack her for every silly made up faux pas that you can cook up and you only make yourself appear to be a tape recorded push poll.
I was having an argument the other day with a board full of Leftists that they should stop calling Palin an idiot - because if she's an idiot, than that makes Obama practically brain dead given that she's run circles around him politically for the last 12 months.After much back and forth, they finally broke down and admitted that their sole purpose in calling Palin an idiot was an attempt to discredit her with independents who might be tempted to vote for her in 2012. They knew damn well that she wasn't an idiot.The lid is off the Alinksy methods, guys. As I explained to them the other night, continuing to call Palin an idiot is self-defeating. The problem for you is that she's NOT an idiot, and you lose your credibility in any future argument with her policy positions by continuing to insist she is. You want to know what independents are going to think of your arguments?"Yeah...that's the same guy/girl who used to tell us that Palin wasn't Trig's mother, that she was an idiot, etc. They're just nuts. Ignore them."If you want to be taken seriously, you can drop the Alinsky tactics. You're forgetting Alinksy's own rule: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." This game isn't going to last another 3 years no matter how hard and fast you keep beating that drum.But hey, if it puffs up your ego to keep on f-ing that chicken, then make sure you stock up on the AstroGlide.
I'm still trying to comprehend that one. I mean I never thought he was the great intellectual that the left paints him to be but corpseman is just downright, flat out ignorance of the highest order.Some things are just incomprehensible.
@AndrewThat sounds to me like the sort of clear-headed, fiscally-responsible governing that Republicans used to support...until they decided to throw away all their principles.You mean running $1.5 trillion deficits is fiscally responsible? Fuck me!!!!
Larry J, what Andrew said. I can't compare, really, taxes this year to last because the amounts earned differ by about $20K, but I did get an extra $800 tax credit because of the stimulus. If you don't know about it, check out Schedule M!You might argue that it's bad fiscal policy to give me more money. But we're spending it as fast as we get it, trying to pump up Dane County's econony!
@AlexI was talking about the decision to eliminate very expensive weapons systems which the military itself no longer wants or needs, and to use that money to pay for things that really do help keep us safe.If you want to get into a discussion about the deficit we can. But that was not the topic that was on the table. I was discussing whether (a) Obama has cut taxes and (b) whether Obama is somehow "soft" on defense.
@Andrew - how does more remote-control bombing in Afghanistan keep us safe. Oh I get it, murdering poor tribal Afghanis is A-OK when Obama does it, but it's real MURDER when Bush did it. Fuck you and all your kind.
"Making Work Pay" (Schedule M). You know....Oh, never mind.
@Bruce HaydenDo I think that tax credits for people who don't pay income tax count as tax cuts? Of course I do. You are forgetting that everyone pays social security taxes on the first dollar that they earn. Most of those people that you claim are paying "no" income tax are actually paying a lot in taxes. The government is calling those payments "social security taxes", but the money isn't going into some special box marked "social security". That money is being used to fund the federal budget.So it is misleading to try to make these tax cuts into some form of welfare.Moreover, even the poorest people pay sales taxes, car registration taxes, etc.BTW, obviously I made a typo in my first post. "$300 Million" should have read "$300 Billion"
The tax cuts in the stimulus package included things like:an $800 tax credit for working families; $250 tax credits for certain disabled seniors and veterans; an increase in the child tax credit; increases in the earned income tax credit; tax credits for first time home buyers; a deduction for the sales tax on new vehicle purchases; a suspension of the taxation of unemployment benefits; an increase in the alternative minimum tax exemption; acceleration of depreciation schedules for businesses; renewable energy tax credits; alternative energy tax credits; changes in the way that businesses treat cancellation of debt as income.Yep, a lot of transfer payments hidden as "tax cuts". Oh, and a lot of uneconomic "green" tax incentives. In that list, about the only thing that I saw that might possibly affect the economy positively was the AMT exemption. And probably the only thing that could realistically be called a tax cut.
You are forgetting that everyone pays social security taxes on the first dollar that they earn.Social Security payments are not taxes. The fact that they have been stolen by the politicians does not change that fact.
Andrew: You are forgetting that everyone pays social security taxes on the first dollar that they earn.You have conveniently overlooked the fact that even those with no income and no SS payments get the earned income tax credit.
without getting involved in an historical analysis of JFKs presidency,if Andrew has any evidence that JFK did not cut taxes or was weak on defense--Please let us know! Those were my two "talking points." A shame when fools think in terms of talking points rather than reality.you need to read some history, son. It might do you good
@AlexI'm not a big fan of remote-controlled bombing in Afghan villages either. But if we're gonna be waging war, it makes sense to do it in the country where the terrorists actually lived, trained and found refuge. But you're really making my point. Obama is much more centrist than a lot of real progressives would prefer. And I find it odd that some folks on the right continue to demonize him and act as though he is some radical marxist. If folks took a clear, dispassioned view at what he has actually DONE in office, they would conclude that his policies most closely resemble those of the centrist-republicans that we used to have up here in New England.
BTW MM, though I find the ironic title insulting, thanks for pointing out Schedule M.
@Andrew - but what proof do you have he's killing "terrorists"? To me it's just remote-control murder.
Slarrow said: "Sarah Palin certainly seems to be having fun. Republicans are having fun in politics right now, and Democrats aren't (as a general rule.) Railing against Sarah Palin in this fashion only demonstrates that they're not having fun."I find that facinating. You would have thought that the libs would have been just giddy over the last year and a half; they've had full control. Instead, they seem more miserable than they were pre-2006, while conservatives and liberatarians are (generally) having a blast and doing things they'd never thought of before. - Lyssa
Do I think that tax credits for people who don't pay income tax count as tax cuts?Of course I do. You are forgetting that everyone pays social security taxes on the first dollar that they earn. Most of those people that you claim are paying "no" income tax are actually paying a lot in taxes. The government is calling those payments "social security taxes", but the money isn't going into some special box marked "social security". That money is being used to fund the federal budget.Oh, so your argument is that the SS system is (for just a bit longer) in surplus, and so SS taxes are indistinguishable from federal income taxes? And, if they are paying SS taxes, do they expect to get SS benefits later on? Shouldn't we be at least pretending that the SS taxes fund the SS system and its benefits? If not, then they too turn into welfare/ transfer payments from one class to another. You really can't double count the money this way. And I note that you did not refute that most of these tax credits go to people who do not pay federal income taxes, but rather, just pay a lot of taxes in general, presumably federal, state, and local. Of course "a lot" of taxes is relative. My guess is that on average the recipients of these transfer payments pay notably less taxes than most here. So it is misleading to try to make these tax cuts into some form of welfare.Why? That is what they are. The federal income tax system is being used to transfer money from those who pay federal income taxes to those who don't. Simple enough. Moreover, even the poorest people pay sales taxes, car registration taxes, etc.And that is relevant to these being federal income tax cuts how?
Death at a distance is much preferable to death at home. My parents experienced the German bombing raids (in England where they grew up).
The atheists are welcome and valued. They may make up the largest demographic. Tolerance is a part of the Scots-Irish Culture that started and still maintains control in this Republic after 223 years.Welcomed now, perhaps... But only when the Right is out of power. How many Republicans were there in Bush years, for instance, who alluded to us non-believers as a lower class of people?We atheists are suspicious of those who congregate under the Christian banner. Not every member of the mob is as intelligent and well-rounded and tolerant as you are, T-guy. Do intelligent and well-rounded and tolerant people write notes on their hand? I don't think so. Sounds more like a thug characteristic to me.Besides, there is another mob over there that calls themselves the "9/12ers" and they think we non-believers are expressly un-American. We aren't part of the America they envision. It's a reasonable fear we have that the Palin mob will converge with the 9/12 mob and start burning us at the stake.
You would have thought that the libs would have been just giddy over the last year and a half; they've had full control. Instead, they seem more miserable than they were pre-2006They were excited that they were going to enact all their pet dreams, .... and then discovered that the majority of the population oppose them. That's why they're miserable. Before, it was the Republicans stopping them. Now it's the people. That's gotta suck.
"And I find it odd that some folks on the right continue to demonize him and act as though he is some radical marxist."Explain Zelaya.
@kentuckyliz - so you're ok with murdering "terrorists" from the air because....
Obama is much more centrist than a lot of real progressives would prefer. And I find it odd that some folks on the right continue to demonize him and act as though he is some radical marxist.If folks took a clear, dispassioned view at what he has actually DONE in office, they would conclude that his policies most closely resemble those of the centrist-republicans that we used to have up here in New England.And, apparently he has no responsibility for the "stimulus" package he pushed and signed into law, or the omnibus spending bill with its 8,000 earmarks, or Health Care "Reform", or Tax and Bribe (aka Cap and Trade), or his proposals to raise taxes on the productive classes in order to spread the wealth around (with, for example, those "tax cuts" that we discussed above), taking over GM, Chrysler, an insurance company and the banks, etc.So, you have a guy who takes from the productive classes to pass the wealth around, who takes control of major parts of our economy on the grounds that the government can better run those businesses, and he apparently is a centrist and doesn't have Marxist tendencies. I suspect that most here would disagree.
@RogerPerhaps I misunderstood your point. I took it that you were drawing a strong contrast between JFK (a Democratic president who did some things you approve of -- namely cut taxes and was strong on defense) and Barack Obama (who by implication, you think does not cut taxes and is not strong on defense). I was simply pointing out that Obama has cut taxes, and (in my estimation) has been strong on defense, thereby making him more like JFK than you were implying in your post. Thus, if you admire JFK for those qualities, you should give Obama credit for them as well.Perhaps I am misreading you. But if that was not your point, then I am puzzled as to what you were trying to communicate with your post.I appreciate your concern for my intellectual development, but I think I can take care of that myself, boy.
"It's a reasonable fear we have that the Palin mob will converge with the 9/12 mob and start burning us at the stake."No, it's really not.Not even taken as extreme hyperbole.
How many Republicans were there in Bush years, for instance, who alluded to us non-believers as a lower class of people?I'm an atheist and I don't know what you're talking about. Care to provide some examples?
We atheists are suspicious of those who congregate under the Christian banner.Speak for yourself. I don't know of any atheist organzation that speaks for me. Part of being an atheist is usually rejecting being in such an organization.Christians may have a nutty sacrificial religion, but the usual practicioners are benevolent enough.
Sorry everyone. I seem to have created Alex du jour. I shouldn't have brought it up.
And I find it odd that some folks on the right continue to demonize him and act as though he is some radical marxist. I had a nice reply typed up and then I see that Bruce Hayden pulled out his thought-sucking ray gun and beat me to it :-)
Jon;The pollster.com average has her approve/disapprove far closer at 43-46,Uh isn't that about the same as our President. and I sure see a lot on this blog about how Obama is no longer popular. Maybe my math is fuzzy?(And why do we reflexively impugn the pollster is we don't like the results?)
Heh... Skyler sounds like an atheist like I'm a feminist.;-)
I appreciate your concern for my intellectual development, but I think I can take care of that myself, boy.Well if you want to compare Obama's 'tax cuts' with Kennedy's then yes, you do need some brushing up with history son.When Obama comes out and addresses the real threat of radical Islam like Kennedy did with Communism I'll give him some cred. Instead, all I heard was a whole lot of revisionism about Islam.
I suspect that most here would disagree.I suspect that most of the country would disagree. Too bad we have to wait 3 years to find out.
OK Jon;This may be more to your liking (not a poll but an assessment of a couple of polls and an opinion piece.) This quote resonates with me:"Palin draws passionate support from her loyalists and receives vitriolic enmity from liberals. What this poll shows, however, is that the majority of Americans may see her as separate from actual politics. In this view, Palin is a totem, someone whom you can support on a personal level, and agree with on a policy level, without necessarily believing she should become president."and the punch lineThe unfortunate fact, however, is that since she first appeared on the national stage, perceptions of Palin have all changed for the worse. This is a trend she must arrestHey I liked her and I was both amazed and disgusted by the vitriol directed at her during the campaign.But.....she's become cowbell and I don't have "the fever" any more.
Primarily Scottish descent living in a belt on either side of the M/D line well into the mid-west. They were reliably Democratic up until Reagan. Obama, being an elitist, typically does horribly with this demographic. Somehow those anti-elitists along the M-D line were able to hold their nose and vote for Yale grads three times in the last few decades. Further, not enough of the M-D liners voted for the state-school educated Dole to keep him from falling to the Jesuit-educated Clinton.I'm going to suggest a reason other than "elitism" that historically has stuck in the Scotch-Irish craw:On December 24, 1865, at Pulaski, Tennessee, during a meeting in a small law office, Captain John C. Lester said "Boys, let's start something to break this monotony, and to cheer up our mothers and the girls. Let's start a club of some kind." ("Authentic History of the Ku Klux Klan" 6) During the evening the organization was perfected. Captain John B. Kennedy, on the committee to select a name mentioned one which he had considered, "Kukloi," from the Greek word "Kuklos," meaning a band or circle. James R. Crowe said, "Call us Ku Klux," and no one will know what it means. John C. Lester said: "Add Klan as we are all Scotch-Irish descent."
@ fls He has scrupulously followed the advice of the generals.He didn't like their numbers. And sat on it for months. TradGuy -- Jindal is a Catholic.
"How many Republicans were there in Bush years, for instance, who alluded to us non-believers as a lower class of people?"I honestly don't think there was anything about the Bush years that legitimately supported the various fantasies concerning religious motivation and the Impending Theocracy. It all had about as much basis as Erica Jong's fantasies about a ripped and shirtless Dick Cheney with double fisted machine guns and bandoliers leading the National Guard down Pennsylvania avenue. There is a particular spin applied to the doctrine of salvation that tries really hard to present as indisputable fact that claiming Christian salvation is an explicit statement of "I'm better than you." I don't think that comes from Christians. Certainly not from evangelicals. (Predestinationists tend to be annoying, ;-) but they're by definition *not* fundy evangelicals, so...)There's a certain amount of expression that atheists can't be moral without a moral basis. Scripture, however, says that even those who've never heard of God know about God from observing nature (and presumably nature's laws).Maybe those things make the Impending Theocracy fantasy appealing to more people than it would have been but rationally?Christians don't cooperate well.We're in more danger from the green police.
the omnibus spending bill with its 8,000 earmarksI must have missed the protest here when Sen. Richard Shelby (you remember him, the Republican fellow who couldn't get Fannie Freddie reform out of his Senate Banking Committee when he was the Chair) put a hold on seventy of Obama's nominations till he got a couple of earmarks for Alabama.He later relented, and released his hold on 67 of the nominations. Still, though, he's gonna hold on till Alabama gets its rightful pork.
@ fls He has scrupulously followed the advice of the generals.not me.
FLS - safe to say we can agree that "bombing via air" is cowardly and murder.
I must have missed the protest here when Sen. Richard Shelby (you remember him, the Republican fellow who couldn't get Fannie Freddie reform out of his Senate Banking Committee when he was the Chair) put a hold on seventy of Obama's nominations till he got a couple of earmarks for Alabama.I doubt anybody here supports Shelby's pork. But this post ought to help you're application for SOTUS. Well played.
New photos of Palin's hand have just come out:http://img203.yfrog.com/i/35015200.jpg/
I'm going to suggest a reason other than "elitism" that historically has stuck in the Scotch-Irish craw:Got anything more recent than the 19th century?
Ethan, that is out of line and you should immediately apologize for your implication and your rudeness.
I must have missed the protest here ...Funny cause that's what the Tea Party folks are protesting, too much government pork.You're missing it only because you're willfully ignoring the message being sent.
The tax cuts in the stimulus package included things like: an $800 tax credit for working families; $250 tax credits for certain disabled seniors and veterans; an increase in the child tax credit; increases in the earned income tax credit; tax credits for first time home buyers; a deduction for the sales tax on new vehicle purchases; a suspension of the taxation of unemployment benefits; an increase in the alternative minimum tax exemption; acceleration of depreciation schedules for businesses; renewable energy tax credits; alternative energy tax credits; changes in the way that businesses treat cancellation of debt as income.Let's look at that list item by item:an $800 tax credit for working familiesI have a working family and didn't get a credit. Perhaps that's because I actually pay taxes. I'll see when I compute my income taxes.$250 tax credits for certain disabled seniors and veteransTransfer paymentan increase in the child tax creditTransfer payment from people with no childred (or none at home any more) to people with childrenincreases in the earned income tax creditTransfer paymenttax credits for first time home buyersTransfer payment in an attempt to prop up home sales and artifically increase pricesa deduction for the sales tax on new vehicle purchasesA stimulus to prop us the auto industry by encouraging people to buy cars they might otherwise not need. Same for "cash for clunkers"a suspension of the taxation of unemployment benefitsSo, income is taxed but not income.an increase in the alternative minimum tax exemptionWhy not just index the AMT for inflation and do away with this annual nonsense? The AMT was implemented as a classic "tax on the rich" but the morons in Congress never indexed it for inflation. As a result, it now hits millions of middle class families, all in the name of class envy.acceleration of depreciation schedules for businessesThis one might actually do some good. You could do even more good by lowering the business tax rates. Those rates are some of the highest in the world.renewable energy tax credits; alternative energy tax creditsSubsidizies to alternative industry companies that are otherwise not economically viable.changes in the way that businesses treat cancellation of debt as incomeInsufficient detail for comment
"[Liberals] were excited that they were going to enact all their pet dreams, .... and then discovered that the majority of the population oppose them. That's why they're miserable. Before, it was the Republicans stopping them. Now it's the people. That's gotta suck."It's funny, though, but I noticed that a lot of them were pretty miserable even right before and after the election. Oh, they were starry-eyed and swooning, but they were also on edge, finding racists and Palin-based evil-ness around every corner, and taking any and all criticisms of Obama as right up there with assasination attempts. Even before things started falling apart, they didn't seem happy. -LyssaWV: fratines: a snack for groups of heavily drinking college males
you're willfully ignoring the message being sentNo, I think I've got it: "Democrats bad, Republicans good"
I have a working family and didn't get a credit.You do have to file for it. Schedule M. I almost overlooked it.
It's funny, though, but I noticed that a lot of them were pretty miserable even right before and after the election.Well, they've always been a morose bunch. Must have something to do with the psychological traits leading to liberalism. Great thesis topic potential here.
Busted 150, 200 next......
Andrew: thanks for your response and I apologize for my snark re "son"--when people accuse me of using "talking points" it derails me a bit. Please accept my apology.OK--I got your point re Mr Obama's middle class tax cuts; especially in light of his most recent statement about being agnostic on them--I lack your certainty as to Mr Obama's willing to cutting taxes for the middle class. Time will tell. You seem like a serious commenter and I appreciate that.
No, I think I've got it: "Democrats bad, Republicans good"No. You don't have it. Try again.I could tell you the answer, but then you'd never learn.
JRH ...no 9/12 mob will be allowed to touch anyone. The tolerance rules in the First Amendment, extended in the Fourteenth, are enforced. I have never heard of a 9/12 mob. But if one ever exists, then the Christians I know will not turn their backs, but will fight to defend atheist's rights to life, liberty and property publically, to the death.That's part of the Scots-Irish Culture's rules, and we love to fight.
@Roger J.Apology accepted. And likewise, I apologize for having used the expression "talking points" when referring to your initial post. That was snarky as well. If nothing else this exchange has given me an excuse to go back and read about the Kennedy/Johnson tax cuts in 1964. Cheers.
I do have to say, though, that I take umbrage with the comments about the "good" Americans and the "bad" Americans. I life on the west coast, in a suburb of Los Angeles and I am every bit a "good" American. When people like Palin (and she does say that often) say that there are good and bad Americans,and that the only good Americans are the ones that live in the "heartland" or the middle of the country. I just think they are way off the mark.Just because we do not live in the "heartland" does not make us any less in touch with what is going on in the world, or any less concerned. Yes, I am a liberal Democrat, but that is not a result of living in Los Angeles. I grew up in rural New Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois and Michigan, all of them small towns of less that 10,000 people. I lived in the "heartland" and I was a democrat then and now. I have actually found people in Los Angeles to be kinder and more tolerant than the people of rural New Jersey or Illinois. I am married to a hispanic and in LA, New York or any big city, we blend in with everyone else. In the rural areas I am met with stares, finger pointing and the like and I am asked if my husband is an illegal immigrant, just because he is hispanic. People, give me the big city any day over rural America. That is one of my main problems with Palin. Reverse snobbism is just as bad as being a "elite" or snob.Oh and that she is anti-choice and pro death penalty. That is a deal breaker for me. Vicki from Pasadena
victoria,"When people like Palin (and she does say that often) say that there are good and bad Americans,and that the only good Americans are the ones that live in the "heartland" or the middle of the country. "When has she EVER said that?
In the rural areas I am met with stares, finger pointing and the like and I am asked if my husband is an illegal immigrant, just because he is hispanic.Was this a long time ago? Sounds like it. It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but the behavior you're describing is hardly typical of rural Illinois.
Vicki wrote: Oh and that she is anti-choice and pro death penalty. That is a deal breaker for me.I don't remember Palin categorizing good and bad Americans, maybe it was referring to how she perceives Obama's categorizations.But I don't understand how you can be against the death penalty. Why would you have pity for murderers? Are you a murderer? Do you ever intend to be one? Have you given it serious contemplation and just barely changed your mind?I've no pity for them. With the invention of DNA evidence, we can have incontrovertible proof of guilt to a degree that has never been known before. In many cases the matter of guilt isn't even disputed. In such cases, it is only just to end their lives. Why do you pity them? Do you identify with them?
"When people like Palin (and she does say that often) say that there are good and bad Americans,and that the only good Americans are the ones that live in the "heartland" or the middle of the country. I just think they are way off the mark."Does she actually say that though?Or does she stand in front of an audience and give a speech and talk about how they are great Americans and how the values of the "heartland" or whatever are so important and even if she says it truly represents America... does she say that other people don't?What standard is she supposed to live up to there? Is she supposed to get up in front of a rally and say, you people are no better than anyone else? Mediocre at best?That's silly.It's as silly as going to a pep rally at school and having someone get up to speak and say "You might win, but the other team deserves to win just as much as you do, and they're nice kids who work really hard."It's not appropriate. Politicians get in front of every crowd to tell them they're great, and it's a different crowd every time.She calls out elitists, coastal or otherwise, but has she actually *said* that the urban working class are bad Americans? Or is that just a bit of opportunistic spin?
Victoria...The California I know is a mixture of every type from the Ag. areas to the coastal Cities, and from the south to the north. Who knows whether a California will ever go GOP in a Presidential Election, especially now that the irrational hispanic haters have raved away at Sonia Sotomayor for no good reason. But California has been the best of all places for a good economy and for cultural tolerance. I hope that Palin is able to win enough hearts and minds out there . If Palin is up against Obama, California could still be a possible GOP win.
Are you a murderer? Do you ever intend to be one? Have you given it serious contemplation and just barely changed your mind?You don't have to answer that, Victoria. Take the 5th.
@fls:No, I think I've got it: "Democrats bad, Republicans good"No, "Republicans suck; Democrats are even suckier."There, FIFY.
No no no, she has actually said that there are good Americans and bad Americans and the good Americans are from the Heartland. These comments were part of her stump speeches. I'm not lying. I was actually, for a short while, almost a supporter of hers. Until I heard that drivel. I understand that she is talking to her base when she attacks the "bad" Americans, for some reason she feels that they are the true Americans and the rest of us "coasties" are not. Skyler, no I am not a murderer. And, if these murderers were convicted with the help of DNA evidence, your pontificating may have some credence. They problem is that a vast majority of these "murderers" were convicted and executed with no DNA evidence against them. They were not provided adequate counsel and, if you read the information from the Innocents project, were never given their day in court. Those who are so concerned with the rights of the "unborn" should be equally concerned with the rights of the unrepresented. If you think that the majority of people on Death Row were well represented and deserve to die, go right ahead. I however believe that EVERYONE is entitled to a good defense and a fair trial. Call me quirky, call me an American. BTW I also don't believe that everyone is entitled to have a weapon on them or in their home. A friend of mine's son died from a gun shot would inflicted on him at a party by some douche who thought he was cool using his daddy's gun. Now, do you think that the shooter deserves to die like my friends son did? Would the death penalty apply to him?Vicki from Pasadena
Play Rachel Maddow's MSNBC commentary from February 9 to show how Republicans are good while Democrats are bad, even when they espouse the same ideas.
No Maguro, this was 2 years ago.Vicki from Pasadena
She made a mistake when at a rally she said something about "real americans," but I don't think that she was referring to the coasts vs the middle as the average Americans vs those who think they are our moral superiors. You know, those who think that we don't REALLY believe in our second amendment right, but that we "cling" to our guns out of bitterness, a psychological condition. Flyover country...That kind of talk is unacceptable on both sides.
trad guy, We like our Republicans in California more like Meg Whitman and Arnold, they are actually RINO's. Meg is pro choice and pro gun control but a fiscal conservative. I like her. No radical righties here. They can be congressmen (Issa, Drier etc) but not Senators or Governor. Thank god.Vicki from Pasadena
FLS, I think the Klan was started by Forest Gump, great great Granfather to Forest Gump.
victoria - you better cite an actual speech where Palin said there are "good" and "bad" Americans. Don't take offense if I don't just take YOUR word for it...
Vickin from Pasadena there is exactly the problem. She claims that Palin separates Americans into "good" and "bad" when Palin has never done any such thing, and Vicki can't point to a single instance in which she has.Yet she got that idea from somewhere on the Left - whether someone told her at the water cooler or some ignoramus wrote it on a blog or whatever. Vicki never bothered to check if it was true or not for herself, and she mindlessly parrots the same talking point. And so it goes, over and over again, until it's just an article of faith that "well, of course, Palin said there are good and bad Americans, EVERYBODY knows that."Except that NOBODY knows such a thing because it's patently untrue. And conservatives are supposed to be the ones who march in lockstep and can't think for themselves?HA HA HA HA
Palin has made a speech about "real Americans" back in 2008 which she apologized for:Palin apologizes for Real Americans speechVicki - you're a vindictive bitch.
That's great; she's good; she is good: as a politician. But Obama was good too, and looked what's happened so far; and he is probably more qualified than Palin.I am so sick of all of them; they seem to all be crass opportunists at the core. Clinton. Bush. Palin. Certainly McCain (who I used to have more respect for but is now flip flopping around to stave off J.D. Heyworth.) Even Obama. And most of us are just the mob rushing around like children looking for someone to say something with which they agree.I'm tuning it all out and focusing on local stuff.
Sorry, got distracted and too many typos --Hey Vicki --Oh and that she is anti-choice and pro death penalty.Yes. Palin is pro-choice. She chose not to abort her youngest child. Bug you much?When you operate without facts, just fears, and stereotype people, you end up looking dumb.Check this out.So. You are "pro" killing unborn babies, and "anti" death penalty, killing killers?Can you explain this to me?(Do you drive one of those cars with the "Keep abortion safe and legal" bumpersticker along side "Save the whales!" "Save the baby seals!" and "Set the lab animals free!" ?)
Vicki wrote: And, if these murderers were convicted with the help of DNA evidence, your pontificating may have some credence.So when you say you're against the death penalty, what you really mean is that you're not against the death penalty unless they deserve it. I'm not sure how that is different from anyone else who supports the death penalty.
Thanks Alex for resorting to name calling when rational reasoning fails you. Taking your queues from Hannity and Beck? Sound just like them.This is the righties way. When you can't use logic, attack. I am not vindictive nor a bitch. But I'd rather be one than an uneducated idiot who follows in lock step with the fringes of the party and with society. Rather be an elitist than a jerk.Wow Alex, i am scared of you!!!!Vicki from Pasadena
and he is probably more qualified than Palin.hahahahhhh ahaha hahah hhhaaahaha ahaha hahahah ahah aha aahPlease. Help me off the floor, My sides are hurting.Glad the cup of coffee was sitting on the desk.
A friend of mine's son died from a gun shot would inflicted on him at a party by some douche who thought he was cool using his daddy's gun.If you have friends who think its cool to point guns at you, do not go to their house.If the douche is underage, the father is at fault for neither instructing his son in the basic rules of gun safety nor securing the gun when he's not home.
Skylar, I never actually said i supported the death penalty in cases where the DNA proved that they killed. I just said that some of your buddies would like to just execute hither and yon,using the excuse that they were convicted. Not always the case that these people were convicted "fairly". I, personally don't like the death penalty at all. Period.
Darn. It lost the hyperlink and I did not notice. Sorry Vicki.Check this here newspaper article out.
I have typo in my last post. Should be "not for the death penalty unless they deserve it."
The funny thing is that Obama is simply the mirror image of Palin. Perhaps that is what drives the lefties crazy.As for Palin's RNC speech being "mean, petty, and contemptuous," well, guess what? Obama started it, attacking Palin's executive experience (which of course far surpassed his own) even before she spoke at the convention.And, finally, the age inappropriateness of writing notes on one's hand? When men's shirts had detachable cuffs, it used to be common for them to make notes on those cuffs--hence "off the cuff."
Not to mention that Palin was not running for president against Obama.
JAL, She is all for a woman's right to choose as long as she choose life. On court appointment does not a pro choice advocate make. Vicki from pasadena
She chose not to abort her youngest child. Nobody wanted her to. Heck, my uncle was born when my grandmother was 44, too, and he made Phi Beta Kappa anyways. But Sarah may have a problem, according to Levi:After Tripp was born, Sarah would pay more attention to our son than she would to her own baby, Trig. Sarah has a weird sense of humor. When she came home from work, Bristol and I would be holding Trig and Tripp. Sarah would call Trig—who was born with Down syndrome—“my little Down’s baby.” But I couldn’t believe it when she would come over to us and sometimes say, playing around, “No, I don’t want the retarded baby—I want the other one,” and pick up Tripp. That was just her—even her kids were used to it.
well....we can just let the little idiot talk....
FLS - why would you take that serial liar's(Levi Johnston) word for it? Because it suits your maniacal agenda, that's why!
Palin on death penalty:Q: Would you introduce--or, if introduced by a legislator, would you support--a bill to adopt the death penalty in Alaska? If yes, which crimes should it apply to?A: If the Legislature were to pass a bill that established a death penalty on adults who murder children, I would sign it.Source: Anchorage Daily News: 2006 gubernatorial candidate profile Oct 22, 2006"If legislature passed death penalty law, I would sign it. I support adequate funding for a strong public safety presence in Alaska. Feeling safe in our communities is something we cannot accept any compromise on. This includes policing in all its forms, the court system, prosecutors and corrections. If the legislature passed a death penalty law, I would sign it. We have a right to know that someone who rapes and murders a child or kills an innocent person in a drive by shooting will never be able to do that again. "Source: Campaign website, www.palinforgovernor.com, “Issues” Nov 7, 2006Who knows. Maybe she'd like DNA also? Or maybe even other good evidence?
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