February 18, 2010

Why haven't I produced another post yet this morning?

Because I'm seething away in the comments on the Goldie Hawn/Buddhism post from yesterday!

32 comments:

Pogo said...

We don't need no meditation.
We don't need no thought control.
No empty vessels in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Goldie! Leave them kids alone!

AllenS said...

Goldie Hawn is an actress who makes a living pretending she's somebody she isn't. It's called acting. In real life, she's nothing more than an airhead. Most of the Hollywood crowd is like that.

Scott M said...

Ann,

You are completely discounting the value-added revenue the bohdi tree sector would realize.

Scott M said...

@Allen

I give Goldie Hawn credit where credit is due. She's a wonderful actress and her antics on Laugh-In are still the stuff of heady childhood fantasy. In any case, if memory serves, Goldie's got two or three rugrats (quiet and empty vessels, surely) with long-time live-in Kurt Russel. They are the exception to the rule for couples in Hollywood.

Do I want her constructing education policy, no. Do I want Bird On A Wire 2, no (maybe).

k*thy said...

“Because all we have is our time. How dare you steal time, systematically, on a daily basis from children? Let a school be a school, and leave the spiritual training to the family and the individual.”

Yes, all we have is right now, this very moment. For myself, that’s what meditation provides. It’s actually quite a valuable lesson or practice that, I think, is worth the investment – to practice focus and attention to the details of what’s going on right in front of me. It, by no means, needs to have a spiritual component and can be practiced in a purely secular (and maybe even fun) way, by incorporating movement, taste, texture or a guided narrative.

kynefski said...

Hey! Goldie! Leave them kids alone!

All in all you're just a...nother prick in the hall.

I find myself objecting to the repeated references, in this thread, to "drugging" kids. Have y'all ever tried methylphenidate? For a certain kind of brain - mine included - the stuff's great, and no more powerful a drug than caffeine.

Is it over-prescribed? Perhaps. But that just means that too many kids are getting something they don't need, not that they're being "drugged."

Pogo said...

I have found it interesting that woodworking, gardening, cooking, auto repair and other useful skills also produce a meditative focus and attention to detail. Math, reading and other school subjects hold that outcome for some lucky few. Music, art, etc., for others.

AKA "flow" (Mihály Csíkszentmihályi) or "in the zone".

It's not that complicated, though. My grandfather used to say "think about what you're doing" when showing me a new skill.

A restless youngster would hate meditation as a way to achieve this. Focus and attention to detail can be taught any number of ways. What does this student need? should be the question.

Coerced meditation is a hammer that sees students as nails.

Henry said...

If any classroom suffering from 10-minute periods of silence needs loudness deprogramming, my son can do the trick.

Our fight with the school district is to make sure the kids get outdoor recess, every day, but that's a different story.

The Crack Emcee said...

Shoot me now.

kent said...

OT: Duke lacrosse accuser charged with attempted murder, arson

traditionalguy said...

This discussion about the care and feeding of human minds is at the heart of religion. The will to chose, and the mind to think, and the emotions to motivate, are together called a person's soul. A human soul is the target of those who fear it unless they can control it and the precious thing in humans to be freed and educated by those who do not fear it. Christian teaching says that the Battlefield is in the mind. Any cult that wants to place young minds into bondage, even for a 10 minute training session in making their minds passive, has gone to war with the freedom that Americans have traditionally demanded as their basic religious and political freedom. For an example, to the Buddhists out there, why not spend the same 10 minutes having children recite a belief that Jesus the Christ came in the flesh and was crucified in our place and rose again from the dead followed by a baptism in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.That only takes 10 minutes and I can assure you that it will have a life changing result.

AllenS said...

STOP THE PRESSES!

A couple of Nobel Peace Prize winners will meet today at the White House:

The president of the United States, and the exiled Buddhist spiritual leader of Tibet.

President Barack Obama's meeting in the Map Room today with the Dalai Lama isn't so much about the words the two share as it is the message they send to Tibetans and China, which is infuriated over the meeting.

former law student said...

"Why haven't I produced another post yet this morning?"

Because I'm seething away...


Two teakettle posts in a row will do that to you. From Blofeld's The Chinese Art of Tea:

Through the sense of hearing we enjoy the gentle crackle of the charcoal fire, the seething of the kettle which may variously resemble 'the music of the wind in the pines' or 'the gurgling of a mountain torrent'; or, as another poet puts it, 'the lapping of waves, twitter of birds, chirp of insects and the roaring of lions and tigers'.

buster said...

What k*thy said.

Teaching meditation in elementary school is no different than teaching penmanship.

rhhardin said...

Favorite Tibetan song.

YouTube

edutcher said...

Never seethe, it's bad for you.

If you want kids taught about someone else's religion, give them a comparative religion class like the one I had in 5th grade. Granted, I went to a private school, but they taught everything, including Catholicism and Protestantism. Didn't hurt a bit and was rather interesting, I thought at the time.

As to meditation and self-discipline (that's what's really the subject), they can't stay on ritalin their whole lives. A good many (I know one) are cases where the parents and/or teachers simply don't want to expend the effort to instill self-control in the kid. Pogo, as usual has better insight on this than I, medicine man that he is.

As for Goldie, I've seen her movies and remember Laugh-In. She's cute, but that's as far as it goes. She ain't no Carole Lombard (but then who is nowadays?).

former law student said...

...

From Blofeld's The Chinese Art of Tea:

So that's what he did before he joined SPECTRE.

traditionalguy said...

K*thy and Buster...speaking of penmanship classes, when do the kids get to start acupuncture classes to help them with the strange new pains?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Yes, all we have is right now, this very moment. For myself, that’s what meditation provides. It’s actually quite a valuable lesson or practice that, I think, is worth the investment

That is YOUR opinion and you are more than welcome to practice your beliefs on your own time.

When my child (now grown up of course) is in school, I expect her to be LEARNING things that will give her the skills to cope with adulthood. Reading, writing, math, science, history (undistorted by polictical correctness please!), geography, literature. I expect that my child's time will be spent productively and equip her with the skills to be a productive member of society.

Teaching religion whether it be Catholicism, Far Eastern Meditation techniques or the Church of Global Warming has NO PLACE in a public school system.

As Althouse said. Wasting my child's time on frivolities and things that are PERSONAL choices and that are not pertinent to the function of education is stealing from my child's time, from me as a tax payer and not doing the job that you (the education system) is being paid to do.

If I want to teach my child meditation, yoga or basket weaving......I'll do it my self or hire a tutor.

It is NONE of your business or responsibility to teach religion or meditative techniques. It also isn't any of your business what my child eats or what I allow her to watch or read.

BUTT OUT!!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

you (the education system) is being paid to do.


errrr, "you are being paid to do". /sigh

John Lynch said...

Pogo wins.

MayBee said...

“Because all we have is our time. How dare you steal time, systematically, on a daily basis from children? Let a school be a school, and leave the spiritual training to the family and the individual.”

Exactly! I've always felt time with my kids was very dear. If the school district has 10 minutes to have my kids do nothing, I'd rather they give me the 10 minutes with them.

buster said...

Trad guy:

As far as I can tell, your and Crack's objections are based on the proposition that meditation is an Eastern (especially Bhuddist) religious practice. That's not true. Meditative prayer has a long history in Christianity, going back at least as far as Augustine. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Francis of Assisi, and Augustine himself all practiced it. Not to mention every contemplative monastic order.

Nor is it necessarily a religious practice. My roommate in the Air Force taught meditation techniques in survival training classes. My son is learning the same thing from his batting coach.

Althouse's claim that meditation is not "something worthwhile," "not about learning and enriching, "for [the students'] minds literally nothing," is just silly-- particulary about an education system that spends vast amounts of time and resources "socializing" children.


WV: uptotho Something about Tiger Woods

buster said...

WV is actuallty "uphotho"

MayBee said...

Althouse's claim that meditation is not "something worthwhile," "not about learning and enriching, "for [the students'] minds literally nothing," is just silly-- particulary about an education system that spends vast amounts of time and resources "socializing" children.

Some of us want less time and fewer resources spent "socializing" children.

traditionalguy said...

Buster...The meditation on scripture and prayers to a the God who wrote scripture for us to learn his point of view is really great. Do more of it. But the Buddhist trick is to surrender one's mind to a passive state and thereby to allow regulation of the electrical aura surrounding the body and achieve an enlightened state that knows all knowledge is a false construct. Does that sound familiar? The same passive mind goal is sought, and usually achieved, by stretches and chants called Yoga. The christian actually renews his mind by meditating on scripture. Psalm 1 can be a three week experience. But passive minds are defenseless in the world that has a big dark side in it.

traditionalguy said...

Buster...Read Psalm 1:1-3 in the Amplified Bible for a better way to say what I just tried to say.

buster said...

MayBee said:

"Some of us want less time and fewer resources spent "socializing" children."

I agree!!



Trad guy:

I don't know much about specifically Bhuddist meditation, but if what you say is true -- regulating the aura, acquiring knowledge and so forth -- then I agree that the schools should have nothing to do with it. The idea that one should make one's mind passive the better to absorb indoctrination seems positively dangerous to me. But the non-religious meditation I hear about is only concerned with improving focus and reducing stress.

Scott M said...

But the non-religious meditation I hear about is only concerned with improving focus and reducing stress.

You can achieve the same results using a push-mower on a one acre yard. I don't know why we have to dedicate precious in-school time to this when there are just so many yards.

WV - "ignst" - when you're part of the cool crowd, but still so pissed off at life

Dust Bunny Queen said...

As far as I can tell, your and Crack's objections are based on the proposition that meditation is an Eastern (especially Bhuddist) religious practice. That's not true.

Who cares??

It has no place in the public school system. The function of school is to educate, not to 'socialize' and do feel good stupidities that waste time and energy.

It's bad enough that our children go through over a decade of schooling and still turn out with the equivilant of a 5th grade education. They are quite often just one step up from being functionally illerate. They have no concept of history. Can barely do basic math. Can't write a coherent paragraph. Have no idea about science. They are learning nothing and you want to waste time sitting on a mat learning to empty their minds???? Give me a break.

Quit with all the idiocy.

Leave the teaching of meditaion and other things that are extraneous to the parents. It isn't your job and is none of your business.

If I want my child to learn to 'meditate' that is MY responsiblity and MY choice.

I want you (the teachers) to do your fucking job and teach the children according to the ciriculum so that when they get out of your clutches they can be functioning adults instead of the tapioca for brains idiots that you are turning out now.

But the non-religious meditation I hear about is only concerned with improving focus and reducing stress.

So what? This isn't within the scope of the education process and wastes valuable teaching/classroom time. It isn't any of your business.

BUTT OUT!!

Joan said...

Buster, this thread is an offshoot of the original thread which commented on Goldie Hawn's starting Buddhist schools in England. She already has some schools in the US. So the Buddhist practice of meditation is quite relevant to the discussion.

Scott said...

What Goldie Hawn is doing in Britain is irrelevant. They're all messed up over there anyway. They talk funny.

Buddhist schools as benign as Catholic schools -- in fact, probably more so, having heard the whinging of many "recovering Catholics" at AA meetings. So if Goldie Hawn wants to start some private Buddhist-oriented schools in the United States, then God bless her.

Many commenters here want to conflate meditation with religion. I know where the usual people stand now. Threads this long usually deteriorate into straw dog arguments. I'm bored. I have tenitis. My doctor bumped up my aspirin dose because my dizzyness might be due to TIAs. My boyfriend is annoying me. The clock on the wall is ticking. The Chinese refrigerator whirrs. The two gay Arab guys in the apartment upstairs are walking around a lot. I want to go to White Castle and buy 'em by the "sack".

Good night.

MT said...

If it makes somebody happy to think of brain science or of solid scientific findings as Buddhist, more power to them. I wouldn't begrudge the science a place in the curriculum because of who is advocating it. You're upset that it's marketing Buddhism to kids? What if McDonalds offered to provide a school with free lunches?