March 25, 2010

Real problems of violence against members of Congress or self-victimization for the purpose of political argument.

I'm seeing all these stories about threats to members of Congress and wondering what to make of it. An unpopular bill was passed, and the protests continue. Obviously, those who voted for the bill would like to shut up the criticism and delegitimitize the political movement against them. For the last year, we've seen opposition to the bill portrayed as irrational anger, and this new theme sounds like more of the same.

Here's Politico reporting:
The threats against members of Congress who voted for health care reform have turned from a nuisance to a serious law enforcement issue, increasing security concerns as lawmakers prepare to head home for spring recess.
That's the lead paragraph. Let's see what turned the "nuisance" into a "serious law enforcement issue."
The Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Capitol Police and the House sergeant at arms on Wednesday were brought into a closed-door Democratic Caucus meeting, during which lawmakers expressed fear for their safety and the safety of their families.
So Democrats held a meeting, the press was excluded, and high-level security personnel came in to hear expressions of their fear. Is this political theater or something more substantial?
The Capitol Police, according to several in the caucus meeting, encouraged members to report any incidents to the department. They also offered security assessments of district offices and even members’ homes.
That is an unremarkable answer that police would give to anyone who expressed a nonspecific fear of violence. It's not the police alerting members of Congress based on something they have learned.
One Democratic lawmaker, Rep. Phil Hare of Illinois, said he knows several Democrats who have told their spouses to move out of the home districts while the lawmakers are in Washington.

“If this doesn’t get under control in short time, heaven forbid, someone will get hurt,” Hare said.
If what doesn't get under control?!
And House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters after a caucus meeting that members who feel in danger would “get attention from the proper authorities.”
I get it. Some of them feel afraid. And if anything actually happens, like anybody else, they'll be able to call the police. What is the story here?
Hare is holding eight town hall meetings in his district over the recess and requested that the Capitol Police coordinate with his local police department to provide security. His wife has pleaded with him to cancel the events.
He doesn't want to hear the anger. This looks like a trumped-up excuse to cancel the town halls.
“My wife is home alone, and I’m worried for her,” he said. “I am about to have my first grandchild. I don’t want to have to be worried.”
Ah, but you were so brave to vote for the bill. To be fair, the bill was passed to help women and children, and Hare would like to continue his beneficence to women and children by not having to account for himself to the people.
Incidents are sprouting up all over the country.
What are the incidents?
The gas lines were cut at the house of Virginia Democratic Rep. Thomas Perriello’s brother, near Charlottesville, Va., prompting an FBI investigation. Local police are making routine checks of the home. A tea party activist from southern Virginia posted online the address of Perriello’s brother, thinking it was the lawmaker’s.
I really want to know the details about this one. Who did it and why? Let me see the photographs. I want to know all about it. I don't like the home addresses being posted on line, and I don't like even peaceful protests at any individual's house. I can see why you'd be upset that your address is known. But anyone could commit an act of vandalism (including dirty tricksters on the Democrat's side). Is the press following up about what, exactly, happened? Or are they complacently passing this story on to be used to propagate the violence meme?

The only other "incident" cited in the article was a "brick... thrown through the window of the Democratic Party’s Cincinnati office." Did anyone see who did it? Was a note attached? Who did it and why? Again, this can be a dirty trick by someone on the Democrats' side.

Clearly, those who are angry about the bill should limit themselves to speech and apply pressure to others in their movement not to cross the line into any kind of violence or damage to property. Any incident of that kind will be greatly magnified in the press and used to undermine the movement. But we should all be vigilant about the way the Democrats and their friends in the press are leveraging these stories for political purposes, exaggerating and failing to check facts. We should closely monitor the journalism, the rhetoric, and the leaps of logic. Hare's remark "If this doesn’t get under control" has a chilling generality to it. Dissent and protest should not "get under control." It should be free.

UPDATE: House Republican Whip Eric Cantor criticizes Democrats for using reports of violence for political purposes. At the same time, he throws out a story about a bullet hitting a window at his campaign office. Is he doing the same thing he's criticizing others for doing? Perhaps, to some extent, but he doesn't make any insinuation about who did it. His point is that violence is serious, but it's random and somehow separate from the real political debate and should be dealt with in a neutral way, not exploited to make rhetorical points.

197 comments:

MadisonMan said...

Much ado about very little. As with any news story that comes out of Washington, BS detectors should be fully functioning. I'm glad that yours are.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I saw a story on CNN this morning about phone calls that have been left to the members. I noted that they used the word "threat" several times, but the recorded messages they played included no threats, just name calling and rude messages.

Can someone honestly tell me that this didn't happen just as much on the other side when the anti-war movement was at it's peak? Can someone honestly say that negative, crude phone calls haven't been the normal experience of U.S. congresspeople since the invention of the telephone? It's part of being in the public eye and making decisions that are going to upset people.

If there are threats, specific threats, sure, investigate them as they normally would. There have been threats against government officials as long as there has been government.

The whining here is unbelievable.
- Lyssa

Too many jims said...

If it were put to a referendum, would vandalizing a Congressman's home or office even be a crime? Would a referendum make such vandalism compulsory? Let's take a poll.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

OK, the above was my positive, get up and go post. Now for my sad and pessimistic post.

Thing is, just like AA's post below on the "racism" that no one actually saw or taped, reality doesn't matter and won't matter. There is video that conclusively shows that there was no spitting or slurs; doesn't matter. I'm sure that we could show that the "threats" are nothing in the run of things, but to listen to CNN, this was unprecedented rage that surely showed a murderer around every corner.

Sure, we that really pay attention will know and understand what I said above, but 90% of the population just catches a little bit here and there, and has no way to put these things into perspective. All they are going to see is that this is being played as a big deal, so it must be. Guess what side of the narrative will stick? And I have no idea what can be done about it.
- Lyssa

Joe said...

(The One That Doesn't Mind 12 Step Work)

Political theatre designed to smear the Tea Party and wrong-foot Republicans and make them play Defense.....

Like the idiot Michael Steele "apologizing" for something that probably didn't even happen!

Please note it's the Democrats that whine about personal threats and safety...I remember, IIRC, Reid complaining about the threats he'd received and blaming Rush Limbaugh for creating the atmosphere of hate....

REALLY, sorry, OH RLY? And where was the Press and the Democrat's when the Left was calling for and pulling for the assassination of BusHitler or Democrats were happy that members of the Bush Administration were in open meetings so that everyone would know who they were?

Bottom-Line: Theatre, to wrong-foot the Opposition and mobilize the troops.

Our Answer ought to be, "Show us who EXACTLY spit on you or called you N*gger." And when these threats and actions are verified and then laid at the foot of a Republican , THEN we'll talk. Until that time this is just speculation and rumour.

Because that's the current Mode of Operation, before any Conservative or Republican can speak, FIRST we must have a five minute disclaimer acknowledging previous sins, real or imagined....well I say no more. We don't have to first grant the Left's Right to Speak, we've never denied that right, we just need to move onto our attack of their position. The Republicans DIDN'T have "Bull" Connor or Rob't Byrd as members, we don't have to decry "racism." We just need to move onto the attack of the policy under discussion. To do otherwise is to subtly agree that YES, Republicans ARE racists or opposed to someone’s right to speak….As Limbaugh don’t accept the Left’s basic operating assumptions regarding the Right or Republicans.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Joe, all of that is absolutely true, but it would mean nothing to someone who hasn't really been following this but happened to see the CNN story or the article to which Althouse linked, or any other of these "stories." Conservatives have been screaming about Robert Byrd in the KKK for years; hasn't helped- Limbaugh's still the bigger racist for things that he never even actually said.

I'm down on it all right now.
- Lyssa

Agnes B Bullock said...

Where was your informed opinion when the Republicans were being targeted and physically assaulted? of course the Dems are lying about this- they have the press to carry their water for them again.

Bill Harshaw said...

Just remember: "Four legs good, two legs bad". It's much more comforting than believing there are nuts everywhere.

k*thy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

Sure K*thy "something bad is going to happen" it ALWAYS does...just like celebrity deaths always happen in threes. When you have a 'pattern" you seek evidence of it...Hennie Youngman died, well then just last week some other person died, and now we'll look around until some other A-Lit or D-list person dies and go, "See, they ALWAYS die in threes."

So too here, three hundred MILLION people live in this country...at any given time some moron is plotting to kill a politician...just the law of Averages say it. So NOW, when the Moron acts or gets exposed, we're supposed to say, "Oh yeah, just like we feared. VIOLENCE."

You're being conditioned to believe that something bad is going to happen...and now anything that does, will be THAT "bad thing."

When the war protestors were calling for the men to frag their officers, and BusHitler to be hung, shot, folded, stapled or mutilated, did anyone in the Press worry about the "climate of violence" and get you to worry about "bad things" happening?

AJ Lynch said...

These front page stories remind me of the many, many stories about protesters staking out the homes of Karl Rove and Don Rumsfeld.

The Drill SGT said...

“My wife is home alone, and I’m worried for her,” he said. “I am about to have my first grandchild. I don’t want to have to be worried.”

He could always resign to spend more time with his family?

AJ Lynch said...

Haha my word verification is "Deather".

Hoosier Daddy said...

An unpopular bill was passed, and the protests continue.

Well I think its interesting that the day after the bill passed all of the sudden it had all this support from the electorate. Really? If it had so much support why did it take arm twisting and bribery from Pelosi to get enough votes in her 78 majority party to get it passed?

Or is it possible it always was unpopular and now we're seeing cherry picked polling and fabricated threats to Dem congresspersons to stiffen up the narrative.

The mid-terms should tell the tale I think.

Joe said...

Haha my word verification is "Deather".


Ah-HAH See how Althouse propgates hate and intolerance?

Ann, apologize IMMEDIATELY!

I call on the Madison Law School to PUBLICLY Disavow Althouse for her support of violence and sanction her!

rhhardin said...

The tea party not only threatens physical violence against the Democrat office holders, but it's polite and cleans up its own trash.

SteveR said...

We don't have to go back very far for incidents of violence directed at GOP/Bush-Cheney establishments. Of course, the reporting of such, wasn't quite as useful to the cause. So even if true for HCR and directed at certain democrats, its hardly new nor limited in its victums (see Gladney, Kenneth).

Speaking of which, card check is just a legalized form of intimidation, intimidation nonetheless. Who's for that?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I would love to see someone do some interviews with long-time D.C. police officers, the sorts who have seen every protest imaginable for the last 20 years.

I'll bet they'd have some interesting comparisons between the Tea Party ones and others.

A.W. said...

It goes without saying that in this country we should be settling our disputes with ballots, not bullets. Don't kill them, just work hard for their challengers. Of course in some circumstances revolution is justified--our founders knew that--but we are a long, long way from being there.

That being said, Ann's deflation of their hysteria is appreciated. i think they literally got together and decided to swear the tea partiers as racist and violent in order to distract from the monstrosity and its many taxes that they just passed, and its flagrant unconstitutionality.

Susan said...

Forget about 'fringe actors on the right' or any such thing.. these events are STAGED AND COMMITTED BY DEMS. Maurice Schwenkler, dem activist, broke windows and painted swastikas at a Dem HQ in Denver in 2008 and was CONVICTED for it.. Dems do these things to blame Repubs on television and the media just goes right along with it..

Fen said...

If you follow politics at all, you'll recognize that this is the usual tactic for the Democrats. It has two purposes:

1) marginalize those protesting Democrat policies.

2) provide cover [in the form of tu quoque fallacy] for when the SEUI goons and MoveOn thugs are directed to beat down black men and bite of fingers again.

Doug Santo said...

That was an excellent post.

Doug Santo
Pasadena, CA

JeanneB said...

Yep, right out of the Dem playbook:

FIRST- play the race card.

SECOND- claim death threats.

You'd think Republicans would wise up and start pre-empting them. I'd love to have seen Boehner on the Capitol steps last week telling protesters to 1) be non-violent and 2) videotape everything---because the Dems and the media will jump on any opportunity to portray you as racists, estremists and thugs...it's their modus operandi.

Fen said...

But we should all be vigilant about the way the Democrats and their friends in the press are leveraging these stories for political purposes, exaggerating and failing to check facts. We should closely monitor the journalism, the rhetoric, and the leaps of logic

And the best outcome you can hope for is a correction at the bottonm of page A18 a month later.

Lame.

master cylinder said...

You can wave all this away, didnt happen, they did it too....whatever minimizes it for you, but the ugliness
is there. From "you lie!" to "babykiller" to equating Obama and healthcare to Nazi tactics with cute graphics, the ugliness is there and being flamed by Coulter, Beck, Rush et al. If you lie down with dogs....

gk1 said...

Oy, what a bunch of pussies. They just rammed this turdburger down our throats and not only want us to abide by it but smile and ask for more. It wasn't so long ago 'Dissent is Patriotic' was the rallying cry from these turds. Now its "Help,help,that man is making faces at me. MOOOMMMM, make him stop!"

Rialby said...

Let's see, off the top of my head

Texas Governor's Mansion - an attempt was made to burn it to the ground. Angry Republican? Don't think so.

Sarah Palin's Church - an attempt was made to burn it to the ground WITH PEOPLE INSIDE.

CatherineM said...

Funny, CNN didn't find these protestors outside Karl Rove's house very threatening...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/03/29/rally.rove/index.html

Joe said...

Yeah Master Cylinder because Obama didn't lie and the abortion clauses aren't going to kill babies...so your point is that telling the truth is now fostering a climate of hate?

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Ann, et al.
RE: Heh

Hare’s remark ‘If this doesn’t get under control’ has a chilling generality to it. Dissent and protest should not ‘get under control.’ -- Ann

But 'control' is what these 'Liberal Fascists' (LFs) are all about. Hence Hare's comment that they want to 'control' the dissent.

It was FINE to dissent under Bush. But it's wrong to do it with Obama. Such hypocrisy is riff amongst these sorts.

Now that they're calling dissent "terrorism", I don't expect it to be too long before we see another ramp-up of the pressure put on the dissenters to stop. However, we WON'T stop. And that will just cause more consternation to the LFs.

It will become a cycle. And, in short run, e.g., the run-up to the November election, we'll see things get rather 'interesting', as Obama and the LFs try to retain control of the Congress.

I suspect we'll see things we've seen throughout history. Perhaps another 'Reichstag Fire'. And any such event will likely result in something along the lines of what Lenin did to the Kulaks.

But, unlike the kulaks of that time, these latter-day ones are well armed and not likely to be willingly strung-up on every lamp-post.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. -- Abraham Lincoln]

Doug Wright-OG said...

Okie Dokie, law enforcement types need to investigate and charge any and all who have made illegal threats or done such illegal acts. Also, those same law enforcement types need to charge any agents provocateurs because either the Democrats are blowing smoke or just plain lying when they can't back up their complaints with facts.

Making claims behind closed doors doesn't cut it, Madame Speaker.

master cylinder said...

What is it with abortion and you people-?
Talk about highjacking- what other 'cause' hogs
up so much space?

NewHam said...

Frankly, we aren't seeing enough broken windows.

It's time to speak truth to power and demonstrate (in a non-violent but very forceful way) that there is a price to be paid when our representatives not only fail to represent us, but specifically act against our wishes.

We elected these people to go vote in our stead. They have taken this power and perverted it for their own greed and to their own purposes.

* We know where they live.
* We know where they go to church.
* We know which diners they eat lunch at when they want to appear "one of the people."
* We know which parades they will march in come election time.

That's not a physical threat. It is a reminder to our representatives that they cannot avoid us, and they cannot avoid our protests of their non-representative actions.

Eggs will be thrown.
Names will be called.
Spit will be hurled.
Windows will be broken.
Voices will be heard.

We've already seen that we will be vilified as racists and homophobes by a willingly-uninterested-in-the-facts media. It is obscene the way the media is portraying everyday Americans merely exercising their God-given right of freedom of expression.

The media's actions - if not stopped - will lead to acts of violence as people become frustrated that the media is actively colluding with Democrats to suppress free speech amongst protesters.

Dr. Martin Luther King led protests where glass and feelings got broken. Where names were hurled. Where spittle was featured. And nobody minded. Not least the media, which made a fortune covering it on the nightly news.

Such actions demonstrate the depth of anger of the people. And as long as nobody gets hurt, I for one see nothing wrong with it. It is America at its finest. It is America in its finest traditions of violent protest.

George Washington killed people at his protests against his coercive government.

Democrats bombed churches in the South to protest blacks being allowed to go to school and eat lunch at whites-only counters..

Democrats fire-hosed people. Democrats murdered people.

Now, Democrats want to squelch protests since they are the repressive regime. Since it is they who the anger is directed towards. Since they are the despots.

The hypocrisy of these people knows no bounds.

I aim to Act Up!

I aim to Code Pink!

I am to misbehave! And in the best traditions of the founding fathers of my country.

Chip Ahoy said...

Monkey sez, "LIES !"

lyssalovelyredhead said...

"'you lie!' to 'babykiller' to equating Obama and healthcare to Nazi tactics with cute graphics, the ugliness is there ..."

Master, please explain a few things,then:

* How is this "ugliness" any different from the "ugliness" that has been going on for as long as there has been politics?

* Why should we pay special attention and fear to this?

* The examples that you used were all just statements (or pictures). Should we really be afraid of statements or pictures? Should we really be indicating that they are harbingers of violence? Is that a healthy view of the First Amendment?

* Is a party who, instead of defending their policies, fusses about "ugliness" that they are, apparently, too weak to deal with, really who you want in charge?
- Lyssa

darkjethro said...

Another concerned Democrat offers advice.

" but the ugliness
is there..."

Don't look in the mirror and all will be well.

"From "you lie!""

Obama did lie and Democrats scrambled in the week after the SOTU to "fix" the legislation. But let me get this straight, (because its always "Calvin ball" wilth Dems and rules) speaking truth to power is now a bad thing? Check.

"to "babykiller"..."

Again, true. I'm failing to see any meat here.

"... to equating Obama and healthcare to Nazi tactics with cute graphics, ..."

Missed most of the early 2000's, did you? Pot, meet kettle. Again with the "Calvin ball" rules for popular political discourse. Unfortunately for your point, the Hitler signs at the Tea Party rallies were openly LaRouch supporters. But, I got it, Hitler signs which were an expression of honest frustration while Bush was in office, now are bad. Check.


"..the ugliness is there and being flamed by Coulter, Beck, Rush et al. "

All paid entertainers, not public servants with the power of lethal federal force backing up their words. The big O says: "Punch back twice as hard", and within a week union goons are beating up a tea party vendor.

"If you lie down with dogs...."

I'm not itching. You should heed your own advice, though.

bagoh20 said...

"We should closely monitor the journalism, the rhetoric, and the leaps of logic."

We can count on the press to get the facts and present them fairly. That's their job and I'm sure they will do it professionally.

I suggest MSNBC for the fairest coverage. Even if a dog craps on a congressman's lawn they will get it to us in detail. They're the best out there.

Scott said...

NewHam,

We have been civil, restrained (though often angry), and respectful of the laws, if not the lawmakers. This is correct, and it should NOT change...

Peaceful protest yes...angry words, fine...harsh condemnations, great...

Violence...NO and NEVER...even in the face of what I agree to be outrageous provocation by the Dems, NO....down that road lies perdition...

Look, the great strength of the Tea Partiers has been their determination to show that the system can work, to clean up this mess by using the tools that the Founders gave us for precisely these situations. Once we throw that away, we are no better than the thugs on the Left that we rightly despise.

I agree with those who say that this must not stand, and that we must rollback the damage done by the Left and its thugs. With that said, however, we must not do more damage in our choice of methods. So far, the Tea Party movement has been intelligent in its choice of tactics, and that has brought more into the fold...

Let us lead by example...

Paul Zrimsek said...

Is tonight the night we torch the Reichstag, or are we saving that for the weekend?

Martin Gale said...

Maybe the Dems will set fire to the Capitol as a pretense for declaring martial law.

Steven said...

"Gas lines"?

The only "gas line" in question is the feeder line that runs from one of those small propane tanks on an outdoor rolling grill to the grill's burners, and it was on an open-to-the-outside-air ("screened in") porch.

Yes, that's still a hazard, but on the exact same level as turning on the gas flow without igniting the grill. This wasn't cutting the natural gas line in someone's basement to fill the house with an explosive mixture of gas and air.

Michael said...

Master Cylinder: What an odd comment about conservatives and abortion. Abortion is the only, I repeat only, topic that matters to Democrats. It is the absolute crown jewel of Democrat belief. You surely know this.

NewHam said...

When the SEIU loads up their air-conditioned buses and literally drives their Thug Brigages up to an AIG executives house to throw stones at the windows and block driveways and harass, the media is fucking gleeful.

They report that shit as some sort of grass-roots movement akin to Martin Luther King's March on Washington.

When actual grass-roots people show up to hurl pebbles at a corrupt Congressman, the media acts as if these are some sort of homegrown terrorist organizers who should be Gitmo'd and forever disappeared.

Fuck. The. Media.

They are members of the rebel alliance and are traitors.

Dan Rather's should never get another night's sleep.

Brian Williams should be spat upon.

Katie Couric should be egged every time she steps off her ivory tower.

These people too, are oppressing us. These people too, should be targets of our rage and we should be speaking our power to them as well. They are part-and-parcel of the Democrat Party and are acting as mouthpieces for despots no different than Goebbels.

I aim to misbehave!

former law student said...

The lesson from the past couple days is that Congressmen lie and Democrats lie. Only conservatives can tell the truth.

or what the anti-prop 8 folks in California did to private citizen contributors (not public officials )to the prop 8

Yes, they quit patronizing their businesses! What an outrage, to reduce their enemies' cash flow.

Yet this is something that conservatives should understand -- something about biting the hand that feeds you?

LilyBart said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

Is tonight the night we torch the Reichstag, or are we saving that for the weekend?

Some guy here last night complaint that snarky speech tasted like pepper.. or something.

Why are you peeper spraying people Paul?

Shame on you.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The lesson from the past couple days is that Congressmen lie and Democrats lie. Only conservatives can tell the truth.

Do you have the market cornered on all that straw you use to build your arguments?

Joe said...

The lesson from the past couple days is that Congressmen lie and Democrats lie. Only conservatives can tell the truth.
There's hope for you yet...you've hit upon an essential truth.

But if you've got any proof of the Democrats claims concerning violence, intimidation, and racial epithets being employed aginst them, by their opponents, please whip it out.

Rialby said...

HuffPo Commenters Gloat over burning of Sarah Palin's church

Big Mike said...

Is this political theater or something more substantial?

Theater.

I call on the Madison Law School to PUBLICLY Disavow Althouse for her support of violence and sanction her!

Don't even joke about that or they will!

The lesson from the past couple days is that Congressmen lie and Democrats lie.

Former! You finally worked it out! I'm proud of you. I know it required multiple neurons to fire and that this has always been hard for you, but I'm glad to see you can do it if you really, really try.

But, BTW, anti-prop 8 protesters certainly did offer up violence. Most famously, a hulking young man slammed an elderly woman to the ground -- this was caught on tape. Sarah Palin's church was burned. This is a fact.

Fear of violence against Democrat politicians? They're just trying to set up their own violent intentions by trying to pretend the other side started it.

Rialby said...

CBS News commenters gloating about the burning of Sarah Palin's church

Rialby said...

Good Weekly Standard piece on the plot to bomb the 2008 Republican Convention in Minnesota. This resulted in the arrest and conviction of the plotters - from Austin - for the death and destruction they planned to cause.

Big Mike said...

Ha! Found the reference. Democrats claim to favor stare decisis and the precedent for their current activities is obviously the Gleiwitz incident. Hmm. I'm going to have to break down and buy Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism after all.

mariner said...

The next step is to report an attack against a Congressman's home or office.

No one will be hurt. There may not even be an attack, but one will be reported.

It will be blamed on tea-baggers or right-wing extremists or some such, and if no real evidence exists it will be fabricated and reported as if real.

The incident will be reported ad nauseum and used as propaganda against Republicans, tea party activists and any other opponents of Democrats.

This is how fascists work.

callow_lilly said...

They passed a very divisive bill. They knew most Americans were against it. And now they're worried they might get some kind of blowback, even if it's just angry constituents telling them off? Well, boo-hoo. Maybe the jerks should've thought about that BEFORE they voted for the bill.

But here's the thing: we used every nonviolent method we could to keep them from passing this bill. It didn't work. They don't care what we think.

In short, they've ceased to represent us.

Further, at every turn they've painted us as angry, crazy, violent mobs of racist domestic terrorists. This isn't just the rank and file members of congress saying this about us (Nancy Pelosi, claiming we carry swastika signs); it's also coming from official channels. Anyone recall Obama himself calling us tea baggers?

They made up this past weekend's racist epithet/spitting incident because they couldn't provoke an actual incident. Meanwhile, nary a word has STILL been spoken by the MSM about the Kenneth Gladney beating last summer. An ACTUAL racial attack, but since it was their side, it didn't really happen.

They've been busily trying to link us with any mass murderer they can, from Amy Bishop, to the plane flown into the Austin IRS building guy, to the Pentagon shooter -- even though two of those were registered democrats.

The truth doesn't matter. They will frame us for something if they can't goad us into violent action. They will claim they're receiving threats; their agents will engage in violent acts in order to frame us; or they'll simply make up stuff.

It doesn't matter what we do, the script has already been written for this film. We're the bad guys.

From now til Doomsday we can be as nonviolent as we please and as would suit authorities, but it won't help. If they want to frame us, they will.

Marticn Luther King and Gandhi were so successful because they were dealing with honorable people who simply held wrong-headed notions. So they could appeal to their opponent's better nature, and sooner or later, they won.

I don't think we're dealing with honorable people here. They've proven time and again that the ends -- their ends -- justify the means. It doesn't matter if they literally have to lie, cheat, steal, frame, or beat people. They'll gladly do it. Why should we think they'll stop there?

"If they bring a knife, we bring a gun. If they put two of ours in the hospital, we put two of theirs in the morgue." Do any of you honestly think it WON'T end like that? Do any of you honestly think they won't start putting us in the morgue if they have to? Because I can't say they won't.

I'm not advocating violence, but I sure would like to know how to fight this. What the heck do you do when they've already demonized us and are now simply looking for an excuse to escalate against us?

How do you defend against those who will say or do anything to make you look bad?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Rialby, you know what's funny? I consider myself pretty tuned in to the media, and I don't even remember hearing about Sarah Palin's church fire. I remember hearing something about an arson attempt, but never any details (and had in my head that there was just an attempt or threat, not damage).

Apparently, the media (even the most right wing branches) didn't jump in and cry about poor poor Sarah and the fears of her family. And Ms. Palin got right up and went back to work. Go figure.
-Lyssa

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Paul Zrimsek
RE: Heh

Is tonight the night we torch the Reichstag, or are we saving that for the weekend? -- Paul Zrimsek

I'm not in that chain of command.

Better ask that question of the LFs.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[History repeats itself. That's what's wrong with history.]

kimsch said...

He doesn't want to hear the anger. This looks like a trumped-up excuse to cancel the town halls.
I think you have it right there Althouse.

Last August in Colorado, 11 windows at the Dem party hq were broken and the dem party leader immediately blamed republicans. It was soon determined that the vandal was Maurice Schwenkler, 24, was arrested in Denver on Tuesday in connection to the vandalism on charges of criminal mischief. The shattered windows will cost roughly $10,000 or more to replace.

The Post reported that Schwenkler was paid $500 in November 2008 to walk door-to-door in support of Democrat Mollie Cullom, a candidate for the state House. Campaign records also show Schwenkler was among dozens of canvassers paid by a political committee called the Colorado Citizens' Coalition.


Four of five (charged) dem party workers were convicted of slashing tires of republican get out the vote vans on election day 2004.
Those agreeing to the plea were Sowande A. Omokunde, the son of Democratic U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore; Michael Pratt, the son of former acting Milwaukee Mayor Marvin Pratt; and Lewis Caldwell and Lavelle Mohammad, both from Milwaukee.

wv: varburge

Big Mike said...

@NewHam, I'd appreciate it if you'd knock it the hell off. You're nothing but an agent provocateur hoping that some poor sucker will take your bait. Whether you're a lefty trying to stir up trouble or someone who's been genuinely deranged by the passage of HRC is immaterial. Take what you're peddling and go pound sand.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Echos to what Big Mike said.

Hoosier Daddy said...

What they ^^ said!

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Heh, how about if you DON't agree with Big Mike, et al, on New Ham, you have to post? Otherwise, this might get out of hand!

Henry said...

I think it ironic -- but sadly unsurprising -- that these members of Congress obviously feel more comfortable in Washington than in their home districts. I think this mindset predates the discomfort of the moment.

If we apply the left's logic of Iraq to this situation, the obviously catalyst for (imagined) violence is the presence of the colonialist outsider. These representatives should either figure out who they're representing or resign.

@Big Mike -- Well said.

vet66 said...

callow-lillie; What you do is have your own "plants" at the venues who keep their eyes and ears open for the same opportunities the other side is looking for. Being proactive is when our side has some Veterans, etc. show up to "welcome" the SEIU thugs and Black Panthers with a physical presence of quiet intimidation.

As for Ann Coulter being pelted by pies a few of us sit in the audience on either end of the aisle and keep an eye on the situation. If you have to get up and go to the restroom at the same time as the pie thrower runs by, what a coincidence.

These cowards shrink from scrutiny of any type. A simple "Can I help you?" can cause them to scurry for the shadows from whence they come. They hate confrontation when it exposes them. It takes restraint to smile at them and back away but that is how you handle it. It takes all the fun out of it for them.

Roux said...

I really feel sorry for the rich and powerful feeling threatened. Man up.

They keep playing a voice mail left at Stupak's office. The guy clearly says "you're a piece of crap".... what's wrong with telling the truth. You think they cared when voters were actually threatened in Philly '08. No, because those people were powerless not powerful.

section9 said...

Thank you Big Mike.....

Although, come to think of it, wouldn't it be amusing to serve in this raggedy-assed Wisconsin Militia with Althouse as Regimental Colonel?

"Don't Tread on LawProfs!"

wv="imishala": I'm not kidding. Islamist infiltration penetrates Google. Well ain't that all get out! Allahu Akbar!

Flexo said...

All this whining and crying by George III and the Tories is unbecoming.

In the past, they would have been tarred and feathered for real, before being run out of town on a rail.

section9 said...

And yes, in all probability, New Ham is collecting a check from David Axelrod.

section9 said...

Well, you know what Samuel Clemons once wrote: "The only native American Criminal Class is the United States Congress?" Too bad ol' Mark Twain never foresaw His Oneness.

wv="rabires": plural of rabies?

MayBee said...

On the Today Show Ann Curry, in asking John McCain to denounce Sarah Palin's Facebook page today said, "These are dangerous times".

These are dangerous times!!

Peter V. Bella said...

This is all a propaganda campaign to turn Democrats into martyred heroes. It is their Profiles in Courage moment. They courageously defied the will of the people they represent, passed a massive bill that no one has read or can comprehend, did it in total secrecy, and are mad because the "people" are so ungrateful for their overly generous benevolent dictatorship.

This is nothing but a pathetic, sad and poor attempt to garner sympathy from and create anger in their base.

These people are truly horrid.

Darren Lenard Hutchinson said...

I wouldn't call slashing a gas line a simple act of vandalism. That could have led to an explosion, serious injury and death.

I am willing to accept the fact that among politicians, a bit of melodrama is probably part of the story. But we have all seen the consequences when law enforcement fail to take threats seriously (from the underwear bomber to the Virginia Tech student).

If a disgruntled student shashed your gas line or sent you threatening letters or put a coffin on your lawn, wouldn't that raise legitimate fears worthy of law enforcement attention?

Joe said...

(The one who isn't 12-stepping)

Remember the discussion a while ago about free speech? Once again, why are liberals so afraid of it.

Plus, in the abstract, if you vote for a bill that is so unpopular that you fear for your safety, doesn't that mean you really fucked up?

I too think this is political theater. If you have the threats, publish them. The media is being far to sympathetic to these assholes.

Joe said...

I must take back what I said. This is a serious problem. Congress needs to vote themselves new police powers to ensure their safety. And since Congress is floundering, perhaps they can delegate the law making process too... Obama! Yeah, that's the ticket. That will solve everything.

cf said...

I'm disgusted and angry, and have been trying to figure out my best response.

Here are my favorite two, both of which would be infinitely more effective if others joined in:

1. Turn my car into a sign flotilla and drive it onto my town's busiest bridge. Park it in the center and askew to block both lanes. Get out and sit on my hood in meditation, affirming our nation's great good. Continue to hold that "High Watch" until they pull me off and tow my car.

2. A non-violent shoe theme, evoking the sandal-toss-as-insult without the toss. Since the president seems to honor the sentiments of the Muslim world over others, perhaps sending him and his henchmen (our reps) old shoes through the mail, and/or dumping loads of old shoes at the doorsteps to their offices would make the point that their actions STINK and they deserve THE BOOT.

working on these...open to suggestions

Steven said...

I wouldn't call slashing a gas line a simple act of vandalism. That could have led to an explosion, serious injury and death.

A gas explosion requires a confined space in which the gas and air mix. Since this was the lead between a propane grill and its portable mini-tank, sitting on an open-to-the-air porch, no, there was no explosion risk.

Increased fire hazard? Sure. But not an especially big one.

But, of course, they simply call it a "gas line", without giving the details, in order to make you think it was a highly dangerous situation. Lying by omission.

A.W. said...

FLS

> Yes, they quit patronizing their businesses! What an outrage, to reduce their enemies' cash flow.

That’s not all they did and you know it.

Nor is that all that happened to Ann Coulter recently in Candaduh. The fact is the left has a problem with freedom these days.

Pastafarian said...

NewHam, you and I need to talk.

First, I'll assume that you're genuine, and not a Moby, as has been suggested. You, and a few other commenters, have been pretty bold in your advocacy of violent rebellion, and you need to knock it the fuck off.

When ACORN planted 200,000 fraudulent "voters" in Ohio just before the election, and Ohio Sec of State Brunner (Democrat) not only allowed those registrations to stand, but barred people from seeing the details of them, I predicted that eventually, this might end with blood in the streets.

I wasn't hoping for it, I was predicting that it might occur. I can see a point where violence is the appropriate response to what's going on here; but I'm not hoping that we reach that point.

And if we continue to approach that point, I'm certainly not going to announce my intentions here.

I assumed that you and these other commenters were blowing off steam, because you're enraged by the Democrats. That's understandable. But if you actually intended to do something, you wouldn't announce it. It's not the guy that's screaming threats the loudest that is the biggest threat -- the biggest threat is the man that's saying very little, listening, taking notes, quietly preparing, and steeling his resolve.

And if you are a Moby, then you should know that there are a lot of that second kind of man out there, and you'll be in their notes.

PatCA said...

I hear the Reichstag is going to burn down tomorrow!

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Darren Lenard Hutchinson RE: Of Gas Lines and Coffins

I wouldn't call slashing a gas line a simple act of vandalism. That could have led to an explosion, serious injury and death. -- Darren Lenard Hutchinson

Pardon me, but I'm a little leary of this report. For two reasons.

First, all the 'gas lines' I'm familiar with are made of metal. You can't 'slash' them very readily. Rather, it requires a hack saw, which could generate a spark and blow the wouldbe 'slasher' to bits. Or burn them alive.

Secondly, I'm not willing to accept the report at face value because of the alleged 'coffin' event apparently being a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

The mounting body of evidence is that these characters are screaming, "WOLF!!!"

The 'why' of it being to ramp-up the pressure on those of US who disagree with their actions in order to get US to STFU.

Just watch. It's going to get MUCH more 'interesting' as we get closer to the November election.

Heck! It's already a full-court press with the report that Ann [Today] Curry is trying to get Palin described as what amounts to a 'terrorist'. Or Clyburn's calling dissent—even from a Congressman speaking from the floor of Congress—terrorism. And it's GOT TO STOP!

However, the Law—such as it is today—says that a Congressman speaking from the floor is immune to ANY prosecution whatsoever. So, there's an example of just how far it's going.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth. Don't be fooled by substitutes.]

Fen said...

Darren: I wouldn't call slashing a gas line a simple act of vandalism. That could have led to an explosion, serious injury and death.

Darren, you've been lied to. No gas line, no threat of explosion. The media fed you propaganda and you swallowed it all.

How does it feel? Not good to look so foolish, eh?

You should look at getting new Information Brokers. If your Stock Broker had lied to you about Enron, would you still use him today? And yet, intelligent people like yourself still rely on known liars like CNN and the NYTs as their information brokers.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: PatCA
RE: Sooooo....

I hear the Reichstag is going to burn down tomorrow! -- PatCA

....who's your gruppenfuehrer? That they know so much?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby!"]

P.S. You should try it sometime.....

dave in boca said...

The Dems' penchant for political theater and self-dramatization is being picked up by the state-controlled media---CNN was "earnestly" attempting to convey serious worry about the "safety" of sleazy Democrats.

Nice catch and thank you, Ann, for calling out this transparent Democratic attempt to change the subject from the ridiculous 2700-page monstrosity they passed---leaving out by incompetence some child care provisions that Obama bragged about, only to find that somehow they had to pass add-on amendments including said provisions.

And the likelihood that the Dems' dirty tricks department isn'[t playing agent provocateur games should also be considered.

reader_iam said...

Apparently, a shot was fired into Minority Whip Cantor's Virginia office. (I just saw his press conference, live).

Did anyone see who did it? ... Who did it and why? Again, this can be a dirty trick by someone on the [Republicans] side.

[One would also need to note that Cantor says he won't release the threatening e-mails he received. And ask where are the photos of the office. Etc.]

So, what now, folks?

--

The people committing acts of vandalism, threatening people (in a way that would warrant investigation), cutting gaslines or firing a shot into an office are wrong. What they are doing is wrong. I don't care why they're doing it. I don't even really care who's doing it, or their motivations (political or otherwise), except insofar that I hope they will be caught, identified publicly and, where their actions violate the law, prosecuted. Their actions are wrong, and I condemn those people and their actions, period. And I would do that whether it turned out to be my worst enemy or my best friend. No quarter here for losers, no matter what side they're on.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Pastafarian said...
RE: NewHam & Company

First, I'll assume that you're [NewHam] genuine, and not a Moby, as has been suggested. You, and a few other commenters, have been pretty bold in your advocacy of violent rebellion, and you need to knock it the fuck off. -- Pastafarian

I have to wonder if Samuel Adams, the founder of the American Revolution, and some of his contemporaries didn't hear such from their community [Boston] as well. I guess I'm going to have to re-read Patriots, again. I seem to recall they were looked upon as wild-eyed radicals too. I recall SOME of them were talking/behaving along the lines of NewHam. And then there was that crowd that knocked-over a ship in the harbor and got a 'strange-brew' going from the cargo thereof.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. -- Morpheus]

former law student said...

Well, Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums did withdraw the reappointment of the 96 year old Lorenzo Hoopes to the board of directors for the Paramount Theatre, after Hoopes donated $26,000 to the Prop 8 campaign.

I'm still looking for other atrocities committed in retribution.

reader_iam said...

People who minimize the threat, inherent or actual, in throwing bricks, cutting gaslines (even to a propane tank) and shooting into a campaign office, are stupid. They're stupid intellectually, they're stupid ethically, and they're stupid morally.

There, I said it, flat out.

They're stupid.

Hombre said...

People who minimize the threat, inherent or actual, in throwing bricks, cutting gaslines (even to a propane tank) and shooting into a campaign office, are stupid.... There, I said it, flat out. They're stupid.

Mostly, nobody questions the danger posed by such incidents. The questions relate to the identity of the malefactors and the facticity of the alleged victims' claims.

People who don't recognize that are stupid.

There, I said it, flat out. They're stupid.

Synova said...

"I want to know all about it. I don't like the home addresses being posted on line, and I don't like even peaceful protests at any individual's house."

I don't like it either.

However.

How much MORE appropriate is it to post personal information and protest at a person's house or place of business when it's not just a voter who gave some money for ads but a politician who actually cast a vote?

Seriously.

No, of course, no one should DO this, but my ability to feel sorry for people who are suddenly shocked and appalled at politics being made personal is really really thin.

And I'd really like to see every single person who even so much as hinted that just maybe it was okay for political donors to have to face public retaliation to be forced to stand up and be honest and say that this "fear" that the poor little helpless Democratic Congresspersons are feeling is just too freaking bad.

garage mahal said...

I don't condone this. BUT,

reader_iam said...

I for one am not "suddenly shocked and appalled." I just don't find it any more or less shocking and appalling based on what sides getting it and what side's dishing out it.

And I can condemn actions AND question such things "identity of the malefactors and the facticity of the alleged victims' claims" at the same time. I can, I will and I do. How about you?

Joe said...

I don't condone this. BUT,



Yeah I heard every variant of that 200o-2008. "Sure Saddam Hussein is a murderous tyrant, BUT..."

"Sure, it's very bad that Palestinians are suicide Sbarro Pizzas, BUT you've got to understand...."

Joe said...

And I can condemn actions AND question such things "identity of the malefactors and the facticity of the alleged victims' claims" at the same time. I can, I will and I do. How about you? isn't that non-sensical? How can you condemn if it didn't happen? There's NOTHING to condemn. So, no I can't question AND condemn...First, I'll question. THEN, mayhap, I'll condemn.

AlphaLiberal said...

You are a stain on the legal profession.

So, by the bizarre Althousian logic:

* threats of violence are okay.

* People responding to threats of violence by contacting police should be mocked and accused of the acts and threats, themselves.

* Elected rep's who cheer on disruptive and violent people in the House gallery are okay.

Apparently, Meade brought some of the Kool Aid along to the household.

AlphaLiberal said...

Meanwhile the Republicant party is joining in Althouse's tactics of making excuses for very bad behavior:

"Central and Southside Virginians are the ones who are going to have the bear the burden of increased taxes," Sere told The Roanoke Times. "What you're seeing is a frustration among his constituents who believe he's not listening to them."

reader_iam said...

No brick was thrown into an office. No shot was fired into an office either.

Nope, nothing to condemn here.

ken in sc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Synova said...

Two separate issues, garage.

One - What is appropriate response to the political speech of others? Some think that deliberately ruining a person's livelihood is an appropriate way to "push back." Some think that it's appropriate to publish personal information and addresses. (I'm assuming that FLS absolutely thinks that this is appropriate.)

A person can disapprove of this sort of behavior from any source.

Second issue - Should I or should I not feel sorry for people who have set the tone of retaliation and who approve of retaliation and publishing the personal information of people with whom they disagree politically? Who use "outing" as a political tool or who approve of the notion of publishing the information of private citizens.

No, I really don't have to feel sorry for them.

reader_iam said...

Yes, I'll withhold judgment as to WHO did something or WHY they did it after questioning/investigating has taken place.

But as to WHAT ACTION was taken--when it involves a brick or bullet going into an office--I can condemn that part of it right away.

I can do both of those things at the same time. And I can continue condemning THOSE TYPES OF PHYSICAL ACTIONS no matter how the investigation into WHO and WHY turns out.

How about you?

ken in sc said...

Whether these threats are true or not, I have these thoughts. The idea that elections have consequences sounds like it means that democracy works. However, it has a down side. For most of our history, not all, but most, losing an election in America meant about the same to most people as a favorite team losing a ball game. Most folks’ lives went on about the same. Politics was a form of entertainment. Not much consequence. This is because our government had limited power to harm (or help) the people. Meanwhile, in other countries, as democracy of a sort, spread around the world, these new governments assumed enormous powers on behalf of the will of the people. What this meant was that at each election, a new dictator got elected, and sometimes, considering the stakes, the old dictator did not want to have an election. Losing an election under these circumstances meant that the losing side might lose their property, their freedom, be forced into exile, or lose their lives. In other words it’s like losing a war. So it’s no surprise that political conflict devolved into violence. The stakes were too high.

My point is that the more consequences our elections have, the greater the stakes become. The greater the stakes, the greater the likelihood of our political system devolving into violence. This means we become more like a third world country. I have lived in three of them during my life. This is not something anyone should look forward to. My natural inclination would be to move, but I don’t know what I would really do. My ancestors came here to get away from this kind of stuff. I’m too old to fight. I served my tour.

AlphaLiberal said...

And, Althouse, there were more acts of violence and vandalism. Shame on you for downplaying ans excusing this behavior.

Althouse lies:
'The only other "incident" cited in the article was a "brick... thrown through the window of the Democratic Party’s Cincinnati office."'

Or maybe you're just too damn lazy to look up this stuff:
"I really want to know the details about this one. Who did it and why? Let me see the photographs"

Here is the local press report for Your Laziness.

Threats of violence are not free speech.

Synova said...

Alpha... how about actually quoting something, oh, I don't know, violent or threatening.

Which was the point, in case you missed it through that fog of fantasy you're experiencing...

Here's a whole long article about the "problem of violence" and not a single example or even anecdote to support the "fear." We're just supposed to take it for granted that now, somehow, something has changed and we simply can't tolerate angry political speech any longer. Now it's not freedom. Now it's dangerous. It's so dangerous that it might make some congressman feel uncomfortable and harassed.

Oh. My. God.

It's the end of the world.

David said...

I would not be surprised if there was a threat here or there. There are always crazies on big issues. Any real threat should be taken seriously.

But if you really want to get to the bottom of "threats," you don't plaster them all over the media. I imagine the President gets threatened regularly, perhaps daily, no matter what his party. They go after these threats quietly and effectively, and not by blubbering to every news outlet about common rudeness.

The Dems will ride this horse as long as the media allows. That could be quite a while.

Synova said...

OH MY DOG... Alpha. Woof Woof.

You have to be "careful" they say... oh help us... if someone uses imagery that is...

Kill the bill.
Your political career will be dead.
Reload.
They don't condemn but speak in "coded language."

Oh yeah... Obama said to "punch back twice as hard."

None of that... oh, none of those "threats" are free speech. Oh, no. None of the coded language is free speech either. And if you stand up and say "I'm angry, and my Congresswoman is going DOWN" it's going to maybe encourage some looney so that's not just a "code" and a "threat" but not free speech either.

The Democrats are in power now, so lets all just be NICE and not say anything hostile or express ourselves and if someone points to something innocuous and says "coded language" then we should shut up about that too.

And the world... would be a better place... uh huh... a better place... la la... a better place...

Hoosier Daddy said...

Threats of violence are not free speech.

Except of course when you're trying to keep a conservative speaker from coming on campus. Alpha of course has no problems with that at all.

Joe said...

But as to WHAT ACTION was taken--when it involves a brick or bullet going into an office--I can condemn that part of it right away. IF it happened...I'll stand both ways on that, i don't think anyone got spit on and when there's evidence someone heaved a brick...I'll condemn. Condemning and questioning is silly, again.

If nothing happened there's nothing to condemn.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: David, et al.
RE: Good Point

But if you really want to get to the bottom of "threats," you don't plaster them all over the media. -- David

And it emphasizes that what's going on right now is, what we in the Army refer to as, PSYOPS.

It's just a ramp-up of their calling Tea Partiers "racists". Now they're no longer MERELY 'racists', they're 'terrorists' too.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[This calls for a very subtle blend of psychology and extreme violence. ;-)]

Alex said...

Look the smoking gun everyone is looking for is Sarah Palin inciting the mob to do violence against Congresscritter and their families. They really need it bad.

Alex said...

BTW, why FLS/Garage/AL never had anything to say about Code Pink/ELF violence? Another case of 2 legs bad, 4 legs good mentality.

garage mahal said...

I think the right may onto something. The multiple and simultaneous nature of these attacks has Al Qaeda written all over it. I doubt it was any tea partiers.

Alex said...

I think the right may onto something. The multiple and simultaneous nature of these attacks has Al Qaeda written all over it. I doubt it was any tea partiers.

You know statements like this count as incitement to violence against Tea Partiers.

Rialby said...

AL:You are a stain on the legal profession.

If Althouse is a stain the legal profession, what does that make Ron Kuby and Lynn Stewart in your book?

AlphaLiberal said...

And it really doesn't help that the right wing noise media are broadcasting lies about the health care reform bill.

And to correct the constantly wrong Althouse: A majority did not oppose the bill for the reasons of conservatives. A large chunk of the opposition was from liberals who thought the bill was insufficient.

Which we have widespread agreement on. Others of us just think we make the progress we can now and return to make further improvements another day.

Cold-hearted Republicans, though, couldn't care less about people suffering under the current health care system. They are selfishly concerned only about themselves. (same applies to AA).

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: AlphaLiberal....

Which we have widespread agreement on. Others of us just think we make the progress we can now and return to make further improvements another day. -- AlphaLibeal

....has a point.

As it is written....

Bad law is more likely to be supplemented than repealed. -- Oaks' Laws

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session. -- Benjamin Franklin]

AlphaLiberal said...

Sadly, No, One of Althouse's biggest fans weighs in on Tuff guy conservative keyboarders.

reader_iam said...

Niagara Falls Police Capt. William Thomson, chief of detectives, said officers recovered the brick and found a few scuff marks but were unable to find any fingerprints.

The Buffalo News and the Niagara Falls Police Department's chief of detectives are in cahoots with Slaughter over a non-existent brick!

Show us the brick, Capt. Thomson!

reader_iam said...

Wait, Capt. Thomson, don't. How will we know whether it's THAT brick, or whether you just planted it at the scene.

Synova said...

Cold hearted Republicans, conservatives and libertarians think that Clapping to keep Tinkerbell alive was a lie.

Cold hearted Republicans, conservatives and libertarians think that destroying the economy hurts people.

Cold hearted Republicans, conservatives and libertarians think that someone has to pay the bill with something more substantial than unicorn farts and fairy dust.

And clapping.

Kind hearted progressives and liberals think that if they care enough and do something, like clap really really hard for Tinkerbell, that she won't die.

Kind hearted progressives and liberals think that worry about the economy is just mean... they believe, like Naomi Klein, that people do good by *trying* to do good.

Kind hearted progressives and liberals think that the government runs on magic money collected from rich people who only have it at all because of unicorn farts and fairy dust and that there will always, always, be more.

It's most important to care a lot.

Because then you're a good person.

AlphaLiberal said...

Ah, I love Sadly No.

Hoosier Daddy:

Except of course when you're trying to keep a conservative speaker from coming on campus. Alpha of course has no problems with that at all. .

WTF are you talking about? Wait, sorry. Why am I asking you?

slarrow said...

Which we have widespread agreement on. Others of us just think we make the progress we can now and return to make further improvements another day.

Ah, so the thieves want to come back after the owner's replaced what they stole? Is that it?

AlphaLiberal said...

Synova dials in from the alternate universe:

Cold hearted Republicans, conservatives and libertarians think that destroying the economy hurts people..

Really? then why did Bush and Cheney drive the economy off the cliff? They left us with the corrupt TARP program and on the brink of another Great Depression.

At least here in the real world. Maybe you and your pals at the Tex Board of Ed scrubbed that along with Thomas Jefferson.

Cold hearted Republicans, conservatives and libertarians think that someone has to pay the bill with something more substantial than unicorn farts and fairy dust. .

Again with the fantasies! Who paid for the Iraq War? Future generations!

Who paid for the Afghanistan War? Future generations!

Who paid for the massive Bush tax cuts for the rich? Future generations!

Who paid for the Republican Medicare Part D bill, which CBO cost was illegally suppressed? Future generations!

Bush inherited a budget surplus and left us with massive deficits.

But you can't handle the truth!

Rod said...

Alinsky rule #12. Dems, ur doin' it rite!

AlphaLiberal said...

slarrow:

"Ah, so the thieves want to come back after the owner's replaced what they stole? Is that it?"

No. That's actually a very dumb response. A non-sequiter.

Are you worried that the poor health insurance companies cannot deny health care to the people they insure?

I'm sure they appreciate your staunch defense and your deceit.

reader_iam said...

James Mercante, a police spokesman in Richmond, Va., says the department is preparing a statement about the incident at Cantor's office.

Oh, man. Now USAToday and a police spokesman are getting into the act, no doubt conspiring with Eric Cantor.

James Mercante, you better include proof in that statement that such an incident happened. Show us the bullet!

Synova said...

So... what you're saying, Alpha, is that the Republicans do it so the Democrats should do it twice?

And that good intentions will change the outcome?

Of course you are. Because you won't answer for yourself or the economy destroying policies of those who care.

Bad things only happen when bad people do them.

Daniel said...

dirty tricksters on the Democrat's side

Self-indulgent (as Simon would say) and oh so desperate. Here's the scenario, if I get you: Democratic activists, after a once in a generation legislative victory, are taking time off from their celebrations to go around throwing bricks and cutting gas lines of Democratic politicians to make the Tea Partiers look bad.

You could only believe that if you're stupid or desperate. Ann's not stupid.

slarrow said...

No, AL, I'm saying that it's hardly virtuous to say you're caring just because you take other people's money to do what you want. It's that kind of delusional thinking that marks modern leftists, of which you're clearly proud ("alpha".)

And then you throw in insurance companies and accuse ME of issuing a non sequitur? Please.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Synova, et al.
RE: Heh

Bad things only happen when bad people do them. -- Synova

Indeed.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[When the righteous rule, the people rejoice. But when the wicked rule, the people mourn. -- Proverbs]

Hombre said...

Alpha opines: Threats of violence are not free speech.

You might want to check out the accuracy of that statement, Alph.

Of course, we do know that neither threats of violence nor acts of violence offend you libs if they are perpetrated against black Republicans,or disproportionately against Republicans.

WV "nulliti" = A threat of violence or act of violence committed by a Dem is a nulliti.

Hombre said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

Great line from Moe Lane:

Moe Lane

PS: I’ll feel obligated to disavow acts of political violence when credible evidence appears that an organization that I belong to organized, initiated, or willfully incited one.

Hombre said...

Daniel wrote: Democratic activists ... are taking time off from their celebrations to go around throwing bricks and cutting gas lines of Democratic politicians to make the Tea Partiers look bad.

You could only believe that if you're stupid or desperate. Ann's not stupid.


Or, you could believe it if you are a student of the theory and history behind the political tactics of the minions of the left.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Hombre, et al.
RE: Actually....

Or, you could believe it if you are a student of the theory and history behind the political tactics of the minions of the left. -- Hombre

....I recall reading about those sorts of tactics being applied by Stalin in pre-WWII China, when he was trying to spread Communism into that troubled land.

I think I read it in John Costello's The Pacific War: 1941-1945.

It's a tome, but it's an easy to read one. He writes well.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[History repeats itself. Especially if the tactics worked once before.]

AlphaLiberal said...

From the police report about the bullet Cantor says was fired into his district office:

A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds. There was no other damage to the room, which is used occasionally for meetings by the congressman.

The Richmond Police Department is sharing information about the incident with appropriate law enforcement agencies.

At this time there are no suspects.


Trying not to laugh because it could have been an act of political violence.

reader_iam said...

Alpha: The story re: the Slaughter incident to which I referred says the brick broke the outer but not inner window, or words to that effect. Not so very dissimilar.

jayne_cobb said...

Daniel,

I would like to remind you that last August a Democratic operative smashed the windows of the Dem. Party HQ in Colorado in an effort to frame protesters.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: AlphaLiberal
RE: Heh

A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. -- as cited by AlphaLiberal

I can fire a "bullet into the air". Indeed. ALL bullets, unless fired underwater or extra-terrestrially, are fired "into the air".

Then again, I can fire such a bullet from an elevation above my target and have it impact in a "downward direction".

It's all about the 'narrative'....

....and how it can be twisted so that people 'assume' so much about it.

You REALLY are a rather 'simple' sort of fellow, aren't you.....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[What they are telling you can be important. What they are NOT telling you can be VITAL. -- CBPelto]

AlphaLiberal said...

No-one was supposed to talk!

Reconciliation passes Senate. I never heard anything to suggest the vote was in doubt, but, well, it is the Senate. On to the House. Then we can start herding Republicans into internment camps, and the rest of you into urban hellholes.

AlphaLiberal said...

Chuck,

Cantor is a Republican. he held a press conference today to highlight this bullet hole, blame Dems for the violence and threats and to criticize calling press attention to acts of violence or vandalism.

Oddly enough.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Synova
RE: Well....

So... what you're saying, Alpha, is that the Republicans do it so the Democrats should do it twice? -- Synova

....as Bullwinkle puts it....

Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights make a left.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A pun is its own reword.]

AlphaLiberal said...

Jayne Cobb, I'd like to remind you that you are easily duped.

'"Attack, listed as an “occasional contributor” to the Queers Against Obama blog, wrote a post earlier last summer blasting the President, saying “the repeal of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ has nothing to do with gay rights, but rather is a plan to fill the US military with more queer bodies.”'

reader_iam said...

Alpha: Did you watch Cantor read his statement? The entire thing?

AlphaLiberal said...

Synova:

So... what you're saying, Alpha, is that the Republicans do it so the Democrats should do it twice? .

No. Nothing of the sort. The economy has been improving since Dems took charge, though still hurting from years of Republican neglect and abuse.

Further, your Chicken Little cries are reminiscent of the Republicant claims in 1993 re: Clinton budget. Remember, that was also to be our ruin.

Back in reality the exact opposite of their claims happened.

Which means it never happened in your alternative universe where Dems are always wrong and Rs always right, I understand.

AlphaLiberal said...

Oh, look. Someone did a ncie job of rounding up previous Republican claims of Armageddon from 1993.

Rep. Newt Gingrich (R-GA), GOP Press Conference, House TV Gallery, 8/5/93:

I believe this will lead to a recession next year. This is the Democrat machine's recession, and each one of them will be held personally accountable.

Rep. John Kasich (R-OH), 8/5/93:

Do you know what? This is your package. We will come back here next year and try to help you when this puts the economy in the gutter...

Rep. John Kasich (R-OH), CNN, 7/28/93:

This plan will not work. If it was to work, then I'd have to become a Democrat...

Rep. Robert Dornan (R-CA), 8/5/93:

The problem with our economy is that there is too little employment and too little growth. This plan will do nothing to improve that condition and will actually make it worse.

Rep. Christopher Cox (R-CA), 5/27/93:

This is really the Dr. Kevorkian plan for our economy.
.

More evidence of Republican nonsense at the link.

These guys are good at duping people. though.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: AlphaLiberal
RE: As I Said....

Cantor is a Republican. he held a press conference today to highlight this bullet hole, blame Dems for the violence and threats and to criticize calling press attention to acts of violence or vandalism. -- AlphaLiberal

....you REALLY are 'simple'.

And by that I mean you assume a LOT. Just like some people who are apparently smarter than you want you to 'assume'. For example....you 'assume' that when someone tells you a bullet was shot into the air, they mean 'up'. It could well have been in a 'downward direction' from a nearby rooftop. And I have to wonder if the police have looked into THAT aspect.

After all. It seems rather 'coincidental' that a bullet fired at random 'up' into the air would impact on such a facility at such a time as this. Don't you think? Or maybe you don't, as the evidence of your comments here supports.

Maybe someone could come around and 'demonstrate' shooting "into the air" in a "downward direction" from a rooftop nearby. Lee Harvey Oswald demonstrated it with Kennedy. James Earl Ray did it with Martin Luther King, Jr.

Personally? I'd like to see the data on the bullet. A .22 cal would do the damage reported in the police preliminary report.

Hope that helps....but I have SERIOUS doubts.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[When you ASSUME something, you make an ASS out of U and ME. -- Unknown, probably a First Sergeant]

AlphaLiberal said...

People are still following Dick "Dick" Armey, of the lobbying firm FreedomWorks, who has been funding astroturf activities for his health industry clients:

Rep. Dick Armey (R-TX), CNN, 8/2/93:

The impact on job creation is going to be devastating, and the American young people in particular will suffer a fairly substantial deferment of their lives because there simply won't be jobs for the next two to three years to go around to our young graduates across the country.
.

He was very wrong about the Clinton budget as jobs soared, wages increased, and the gap between rich and poor fell for the first time in decades.

Still, you conservatives follow Dick "Dick" Armey.

Get duped much?

AlphaLiberal said...

What's up, Chuck?

Were you reading some other message and responded to mine? I left open the possibility that it was an act of political violence.

the police report said "a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction,"

In my part of the world, "into the air" means upward. Firing a bullet downward would be "into the ground" or "into the window."


Further, you say:
"It seems rather 'coincidental' that a bullet fired at random 'up' into the air would impact on such a facility at such a time as this. "

You mean at 1 AM?

Here is what Cantor said to the press today:

"Just recently, I have been directly threatened. A bullet was shot through the window of my campaign office in Richmond this week."

From the Police report:

A first floor window was struck by a bullet at approximately 1 a.m. on Tuesday, March 23. The building, which has several tenants including an office used by Congressman Eric Cantor, was unoccupied at the time..

Again with the getting duped.

AlphaLiberal said...

More discredited cries of doom and gloom. Republicans on Social Security:

Rep. John Taber (R-NY), 4/19/35:

Never in the history of the world has any measure been brought here so insidiously designed as to prevent business recovery, to enslave workers and to prevent any possibility of the employers providing work for the people.

Rep. Daniel Reed (R-NY), 1935:

The lash of the dictator will be felt and 25 million free American citizens will for the first time submit themselves to a fingerprint test.

Rep. James W. Wadsworth (R-NY), 1935:

This bill opens the door and invites the entrance into the political field of a power so vast, so powerful as to threaten the integrity of our institutions and to pull the pillars of the temple down upon the heads of our descendants.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: AlphaLiberal

As I was saying....

Hope that helps....but I have SERIOUS doubts. -- to AlphaLiberal

...obviously it doesn't help to explain things like physics to AlphaLiberal. Let alone English.

'nuff said and 'nuff time wasted.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.]

AlphaLiberal said...

Chuck, it is you who seem to have the poor grasp of both reading comprehension and physics. I can recommend this post from the estimable publisher of the web juggernaut TalkingPointsmemo.com

We always try to be extremely cautious when describing these sorts of attacks because often the motivation behind them is inherently ambiguous. But this seems to be a caution Cantor doesn't have much time for since, in need of an incident to create a false and preposterous equality, he determined not only that this unknown assailant was an aggrieved proponent of universal health care but that he or she has an exceptional grasp of trigonometry.

Fen said...

Alpha Libtard: People are still following -

Alpha, you are aware that we all just skip over your cut-n-paste talking points.

Why don't you try to pass off some bogus Rush quotes again? Its not like your credibility could sink any lower.

Oh yeah, I'm still waiting for you to explain how the KSM Show Trial can "restore" America's reputation. You had such fierce moral outrage re waterboarding on these grounds. But Obama holds a Show Trial and declares that whatever the court's judgement, the defendant will be executed. And you remain silent.

Typical of Libtard situational ethics.

edutcher said...

AlphaLiberal said...

...

From the Police report:

A first floor window was struck by a bullet at approximately 1 a.m. on Tuesday, March 23. The building, which has several tenants including an office used by Congressman Eric Cantor, was unoccupied at the time..


So, if no one was there, no offense? Even you don't believe that one. The fact it was done is illegal and evidence somebody wanted to send a message.

I keep forgetting. If your side does it, it's all good.

You people give slime a bad name.

AlphaLiberal said...

Fen, I sure do believe you skip over facts and links used to back up perspectives you disagree with. That's not hard to believe at all!

Josh Marshall commented on this earlier today, in a great statement:

It's time for a truth moment for the national Republican party. Incitement matters. They have to take responsibility for what they've done: which is nothing less than a campaign of incitement for which they're now unwilling to take any responsibility.

AlphaLiberal said...

Here is a good post laying out more in the long series of violent acts from the American right wing.

And a quote from a hate letter sent to Rep Weiner today, with white powder enclosed:

There have been some great stories about bricks being thrown, calls being made, and gas lines being cut. Good. We should keep it up, pay a visit to any Dems in your area who voted for it. Use this email as a thread to exchange their personal contact information so we can keep getting to them. They can't stop us, and they have waged a war they will not win.

If they won't listen to us, we will make them listen. Damn it, this is our country, and I would sooner die than see it continue to fall at the hands of these murderers. Whose with me? Who will stand with me, and be prepared to fight when the time comes? Lock 'n load my friends, we're taking our country back, one dirtbag at a time if we have to.
.

polderjongen said...

the bullet struck the window in a downward direction

So the bullet came from Heaven?

I bet Jesus was mad as Hell at Cantor and he was not going to take it anymore.

HT said...

Speaking of Cantor, I don't understand why he's not a more prominent figure, even a presidential candidate.

Did everyone see that Frum was fired?

HT said...

Alpha,

Don't you know by now that everything bad done to Democrats or alleged to have done, was done by fake Republicans, ie Democratic plants?

That's the meme of this blog!

Get with the program!

Bruce Hayden said...

I do find the whole thing humorous. First the libs claim that the tea partiers are racists, and now, that they are threatening or actually participated in violence. Never mind that the average tea partier is a middle aged or older woman. Or maybe male, but apparently more likely female.

They know that they are in big trouble, and are trying to shame those involved in the tea party movement to abandon such. But, it won't work. Why? Because the people are fed up with what was passed and how.

I also am totally amazed at the sheer cynicism of these claims, after all the violence against tea partiers and conservatives by the libs, and in particular, the President and his minions (including, of course, SEIU thugs). And, the projection is also amazing - they know that they indulge in violence and threats thereof, that they assume that those on the other side would resort to the same. As if.

Bruce Hayden said...

I do find the whole thing humorous. First the libs claim that the tea partiers are racists, and now, that they are threatening or actually participated in violence. Never mind that the average tea partier is a middle aged or older woman. Or maybe male, but apparently more likely female.

They know that they are in big trouble, and are trying to shame those involved in the tea party movement to abandon such. But, it won't work. Why? Because the people are fed up with what was passed and how.

I also am totally amazed at the sheer cynicism of these claims, after all the violence against tea partiers and conservatives by the libs, and in particular, the President and his minions (including, of course, SEIU thugs). And, the projection is also amazing - they know that they indulge in violence and threats thereof, that they assume that those on the other side would resort to the same. As if.

Bruce Hayden said...

And, then there is this from Politico: OfA fundraises off threats

info@barackobama.com Subject: Urgent -- we need to act Friend -- We knew that power concedes nothing. So did President Obama. So did the members of Congress who courageously voted for reform, knowing that the special interests and the extreme right wing would retaliate swiftly. The attacks are fierce. Deceptive ads are hitting the airwaves in swing districts. GOP lawmakers are pushing to repeal reform -- and preventing the Senate from performing basic functions. A few Republican attorneys general have launched a baseless attack to overturn the legislation. But that's not even the worst of it. A conservative blogger posted the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello, urging tea partiers to "drop by." Other members have had death threats. Democratic offices have been vandalized. Please chip in $5 or more to defend health reform -- and those in Congress who fought to make it possible.Showing support for reform and those who fought for it is our number one priority right now. We're going all-out, organizing grassroots events around the country, running supportive ads on the air, and making sure that every American knows the truth about the historic legislation that representatives voted into law. Members of Congress know that reform would not have passed without all of your incredible work. But we also know that it would not have passed without their courage. Together, along with President Obama, we beat the insurance companies and brought affordable coverage to 32 million without it, reduced costs for families and small businesses, and created the toughest patient protections in history. A few weeks ago, we made a simple promise to these representatives: You fight for health reform, we'll fight for you. It's time to hold up our end of the deal. Please donate $5 or more:https://donate.barackobama.com/DefendThanks, Mitch Mitch Stewart Director Organizing for America

Don't you love that - Organizing for America fund raising based on those threats of violence, esp. given their own record in this area.

Michael Ryan said...

I can't get too hyped about publishing home addresses. I just went to the 'xxxforcongress' home page for my Virginia congress-critter, and it even tells me exactly what building his wife works in. Whitepages.com only gave me his personal PO box, but I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to ask around to find exactly where he lives. OK, most people don't know where their congressman lives. I also don't know where my dentist lives. Is it ominous if I find out?

dick said...

I remember when the effigy of Bush and Cheney were set on fire and lynched, when the anti-war movement tried to get the enlisted men to shoot their officers and NCO's, when the flag was set on fire, when the union thugs broke into the Republican offices while they were open and assaulted the workers, when the Republican HQ in WV had shots fired into it. This is mild by comparison.

And about that racism at the tea party. I heard the tape of what was said and for sure I did not hear the word n*gger. I heard the words Kill the Bill but not the n-word. That just does not ring true at all.

This sounds like that professor who claimed she was being discriminated against because of her race and it turned out that she hung the effigy on her door and the other one when the professor keyed her own car and then claimed it was done to discriminate against her. I would guess it is the same sort of thing now.

Doug Wright-OG said...

AL: So, how much are "they" paying your for your provocateur acts? BTW: who are "they" anyway? Oh, maybe "they" don't want to be identified, so are you long for this temporal life or are you merely a mirage, a fig of the DNC's imagination?

Shucks, you couldn't be a fig, more like a pigshit pile.

Peter V. Bella said...

Hey Alpha,
Look up Kenneth Gladney. I don't see any of your sub human species disavowing what happened to him. Of course your party, the SEIU Nazis will probably get off Scot free. Donations are pouring in for a defense fund if the racist Nazis are arrested and charged.

But hey, he was only some poor Black guy practicing freedom of expression.

W.C.Camp said...

Im sure some NUTS are yelling hateful things but the vast majority of the comments are just expressions of disgust. Those are not threats. Congress whines constantly. I address that in my blog post Congressional BABIES!

http://pjmonolog.blogspot.com/2010/03/congressional-babies.html

HT said...

Like your blog, especially the health entries. Not so much the politics.

AlphaLiberal said...

OK, Ann. Got it. Democrats targeted by violence means they're probably faking it.

A House Republican claims same and he is making a noble point.

Except for the damned facts.

The bullet hit the front window of a building in which Cantor has a campaign office, but it fell at a sharp angle..

Cantor lies. Claims to have been targeted. Should recant.

Oh, and that gas line? Officials: Gas Line at Perriello House Was Cut Deliberately

AlphaLiberal said...

And Althouse's notion that the people who have been targeted for violence should STFU and not point out the escalating threats and acts is simple bizarre and wrong.

Real "blame the victim" stuff.

But Digby captures this absurd argument far better than I can.

'So, threats should be taken seriously, but not discussed publicly because it might make the threatening thugs who mad and then they might get violent. And sadly, it would then be the victim's fault for complaining. In fact, the Democrats are being completely irresponsible for even bringing this up and the Republican grown-ups have rightly stepped to put a stop to it before they provoke any more violence.'

'Well that's a relief. These Democrats who are forcing good people to threaten and intimidate them need to know that this wouldn't happen if they'd just do as they are told. There's nothing unreasonable about that. '

For shame, Ann Althouse!

Doug Wright-OG said...

AL: Here's what you should be pushing for!

Investigate all claims of violence and threats. Charge where possible. Prosecute those charged. Also, charge anyone making phony claims of violence or threats.

In other words, put up or shut up.

Meanwhile, what you and your fellow Socialists are doing is trying to lay the groundwork for you and Obama to shut down this country. You've got your MSM buddies working very hard to raise an alarm w/o proof.


So, put up or shut up, do something positive rather than work your ugly pie hole.

Fen said...

Alpah Libtard: I sure do believe everyone skips over my propaganda and talking points used to distort those I disagree with

/fixed

Gabriel Hanna said...

Was it only as recently as 2007 when leftists carried signs in the street saying "Death to world's number one terrorist pig Bush", "kill terrorists bomb there [sic] house kill Bush bom his f--n house"?

Why yes, yes it was.

http://www.zombietime.com/us_out_of_iraq_now_sf_3-18-2007/

And Alpha Liberal and his ilk hotly denied that such sentiments were representative of them. Alpha Liberal claims never to have heard "Bushitler" either. He claims a lot of things.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4750077

Debra J.M. Smith said...

Why is one threat illegal, but not another?

Louise Slaughter is my congresswoman. Someone put a brick through an office window of hers. I am not for anything stupid like that.

But, I have to wonder what some of these liberals in D.C. are thinking, going after the health care of the American people, in this manner. The very passage of the health care bill, into an unconstitutional law, threatens the lives every American in this country. So, why is D.C. shocked to see people reacting in adverse ways? They cannot be this stupid. If they are going to threaten people's lives, then they should not be shocked, when someone threatens theirs back. And goodness knows they should not turn into whiny babies over it. If a person can dish it, the person should be able to take it.

As for those who claim that we conservatives incite anger: Louise Slaughter lies about her constituents who dare to speak against what she is for, and she does not truly represent her district and does not uphold or defend the U.S. Constitution. She refuses to meet with anyone who disagrees with her. She refers to us, as, "Those people," among other things and says that it is beneath the dignity of her office to meet with us. --Now you tell me who is inciting anger in the people!

Debra J.M. Smith
of
www.InformingChristians.com

Steven said...

reader_iam,

1) There's a fundamental difference between minimizing the intended threat inherent in an act of violence, and pointing out the exaggeration of the actual physical danger of the act.

2) Until we know who performed an act, the existence and meaning of a threat cannot actually be known. Anti-bill Tea Paty conservative? Angry single-payer advocate protesting lack of a public option? Ex-boyfriend of the daughter of a Congressman ticked off at the family, and using the politics as cover? Supporter of the Congressman causing performing a relatively low-danger act that can sound much more dangerous in reporting in order to smear the opposition rallying to defeat the Congressman in the fall?

All names are in the bucket until there's actual, you know, evidence.

AlphaLiberal said...

Elizabeth Hasselbeck disagrees with Ann Althouse and thinks violence-laced incendiary rhetoric is a bad thing:

'On ABC’s The View today, conservative Elizabeth Hasselbeck lowered the boom on Sarah Palin today for her targeted list of congressional races. She called Palin’s list, “An abuse of the Second Amendment, and advertising… It’s dangerous. It incites crime.” This criticism has to be just a tad stinging, because Hasselbeck campaigned for Palin in 2008.

Hasselbeck said of Palin’s 2010 target list, “This was really disappointing to me…This hasn’t been a great week in terms of I think the Constitution, and where it says that you’re supposed to everyone it’s a mandate to have insurance, but I think the way that some Republicans are handling this is nothing more than purely despicable. The names that are next to and being highlighted by those crosshairs, I think it is an abuse of the Second Amendment and advertising. I also feel as though every person on here is a mother, a father, a friend, a brother, a sister. It’s disappointing to see this come from the party.”'

Granted, she seems a bit confused and, er, a wee bit "off-target" but she's a lot closer to the truth than Althouse who says victims of violence, vandalism and threats should STFU.

AlphaLiberal said...

Gabriel Hanna do you understand the difference between a few individuals using a dumb phrase they mistakenly thought was clever, or someone posting something on one sign to the leadership of a major political party inciting their inflamed base with overheated charges?

One of these things is not like the other.

You found some examples of inappropriate rhetoric and just plain silliness, yes.

So you're saying that justifies the widescale and growing violence from the right?

Do you have any sense of proportion at all?

damikesc said...

http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html

The Left NEVER resorts to violence threats against pols they oppose.

EVER!

AlphaLiberal said...

Debra J Smith, your comments are wildly untrue. In fact, you are bearing false witness against your neighbor.

You are also justifying violence when you make these type of over-the-top comments:
"If they are going to threaten people's lives, then they should not be shocked, when someone threatens theirs back."

Claiming to be a Christian doesn't give you the right to lie, distort and incite.

I suggest you get your news from more than Sara Palin, FoxNews or Rush Limbaugh.

Can you find any non-partisan source to support your claim that the bill is threatening peoples' lives?

repsac3 said...

Sorry Ann... By not holding Cantor to the same standards you did the Dems, you lose credibility...

AlphaLiberal said...

daMikesec,

What you have there is one individual with a dumb and inappropriate (and misspelled) statement on a hand painted sign.

Compare that to leaders of the Republican Party urging people with violence-laced language:

* Sarah Palin telling her fans "don't retreat - reload" as she uses rifle crosshairs over Dem member names and districts.

* Michael Steele, saying that Speaker Nancy Pelosi should be put on "the firing line."

* Republican Minority Leader John Boehner saying a Democra who supported health care reform would be a "dead man."

This list goes on and on.

There's no comparison! And no equivalence.

AlphaLiberal said...

And to the likes of Debra J Smith, who excuse the violence and threats because you really think the health care is a threat to people:

What if you're wrong? What if people are hurt here, legislators, children of their siblings, or others and your excuse is completely unfounded?

Would you take any responsibility at all? Or would you just blame it on the victims - again?

The question apparently and sadly applies to Althouse.
-------------

I don't believe the Republicans are really the "Daddy Party," more like the juvenile delinquent party.

But if so, they are the wife-beating Daddy Party screaming "why do you make me beat you?

Moira Breen said...

eductcher: I keep forgetting. If your side does it, it's all good.

Ah, but you're operating under the mistaken premise that AL knows that "his side does it". Not true. AL believes in all sincerity that his side doesn't do it.

Seriously. Ever talked with a religious fundie? Their filters are very, very good, and what's going in their brains has nothing to do with conscious dishonesty or hypocrisy. Ol' AL isn't being disingenuous here, that takes brains, or a minimal level of low cunning, which isn't in evidence. Note how he excitedly parrots, e.g., Josh Marshall, which is precisely analogous, in all its looney circular logic, to a fundie adducing a bible passage as "proof" to an atheist or non-Christian.

So you can roll out Kenneth Gladney, e.g., or any of the myriad other examples given here, until the cows come home and it won't make a dent - not because he's some lucid practitioner of the Big Lie method, but because that stuff just hits a filter which immediately sends out the "does not compute" error message to central processing. The eyes glaze over, standby boilerplate is emitted until the reset is complete, then "but it says in Genesis" recommences.

If anything should get through, there are strong secondary filters to make sure the little nugget doesn't lodge in memory and form or reform any neural paths. Though, to be fair to the religious fundies I've come across, their systems do tend to have an internal coherence, which they'll remain true to over the course of a discussion, rather than just eventually losing their shit all over the place and making no sense at all, by any criterion.

Moira Breen said...

AL: Elizabeth Hasselbeck...

That's even funnier than "David Frum says...", which is in turn funnier than "TPM says..."

master cylinder said...

So sad how you all are still don't want to vote in your own self interest. The government can do good things for us. Those of you that dont think so...that think we can drown it, we dont want your "help" either

Moira Breen said...

AL: What you have there is one individual with a dumb and inappropriate (and misspelled) statement on a hand painted sign.

You have now come full circle and are reiterating in your own defense the arguments originally used against your own first accusations. This is the ineluctable fate of all witch-hunters and Jacobins. Your head is now so far up your butt that the circle is complete.

Larkin said...

Wasn't the "brick" story debunked?

That office in Cincinnati is on the 30th floor of a skyscraper...

AlphaLiberal said...

Now it turns out that:

A) The "campaign office" in question is not even in Cantor's district.

B) The "campaign office" in question has no campaign signage on it. (Use Google Maps with Streetview to see for yourself)

C) From the Richmond Police Report: "The Richmond Police Department is investigating an act of vandalism at the Reagan Building, 25 E. Main St., Richmond, Virginia." You can look it up for yourselves. Not even in his district!! What kind of campaign office is that?!?!?


Eric Cantor is a liar.

And Ann Althouse is willing dupe too eager to catapult Republican propaganda.

This is shameless lying to defend thuggish threats and violence. Althouse gets more and more disgraceful, week by week.

AlphaLiberal said...

Moira, Big big difference. I criticized the statements. And then I showed multiple examples of Republican leaders using violence-laced and inciteful language.

What ya got like that?

AlphaLiberal said...

Larkin,

The window in question in Cincy was tossed throw the window of the Dem Party, not Rep Driehaus' office, which is on the 30th floor. Looks to me like the party office is on the first floor of an office building.

"Someone reportedly threw a fist-sized rock through the front window of the Hamilton County Democratic Party headquarters Sunday night after Congress passed the landmark health insurance overhaul"

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/03/22/rock-thrown-at-dem-hqs/

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann, I hope you will retract this statement in light of the new cold hard facts that a) Richmond Police called it "an act of random gunfire" and b) Cantor's claim that this was a direct threat to him at his campaign office yet it's not even in his district and the shot was estimated at 1 AM.

Althouse:
"His point is that violence is serious, but it's random and somehow separate from the real political debate and should be dealt with in a neutral way, not exploited to make rhetorical points. "

Cantor lies:
"Just recently I have been directly threatened. A bullet was shot through the window of my campaign office in Richmond this week"

However, I expect you will continue to attack the Democrats and defend and excuse the Republicans and their supporters carrying out threats, vandalism and violence.

Ann Althouse said...

"Ann, I hope you will retract this statement..."

What statement? Give me a quote of mine that you think no longer stands and tell me why. Your vagueness is part of a system of bullshit that is undermining our country.

Synova said...

So... some Democratic State Rep apparently thinks that the Japanese culture (Anime) is such a blight on the world that "two nukes were not enough."

Wow, huh?

I'll say it was stupid, but ought I hold this guy, whoever he was, with his little "D" behind his name to this new standard of not using violent language or imagery?

Should I decide that because he's Democrat that instead of just wondering at the stupid nature of making a public remark, a published remark, that bombastic, something that wouldn't be all that remarkable if still a bit rude in a situation where one was being rude on purpose with friends, he should be held up and used as a proof of the inherent racism of Democrats and their rhetoric?

Wow, Japanese culture is so awful that we ought to have nuked them twice.

And we're supposed to have vapours over perfectly ordinary political rhetoric about "reloading" when Obama said "get in their faces" and "punch back twice as hard" and every politician, just like every football coach, uses fighting imagery?

I'm thinking that the next time some kid in school gets hauled in for fighting they should have that quote of Obama's ready and just say... the President of the United States told them to punch back twice as hard.

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