Althouse: A racial incident in Milwaukee.

December 10, 2010

A racial incident in Milwaukee.

Involving a 100-year-old woman who was working as a Wal-Mart greeter and used the provocative epithet "you people."

248 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 248 of 248

Fen said...: ah okay Rev, I see it now, in the OP:

"The police report also says Speelman violated Walmart policy by grabbing Metcalf's arm to get her attention and leaving the store to check the receipt while she and Metcalf were on the sidewalk outside the building."

But tell me, if somene walks up behind you at a party and grabs your arm to get your attention, you consider that assualt?; 12/10/10, 6:20 PM
former law student said...: Fen you admitted you blow off door Nazis all the time -- what would you have done if some old guy had chased after you and grabbed you. You fit the profile, right? But I'm assuming you're not one of "you people."

"unbagged merchandise"

All the stuff looked bagged to me. The modern trend is not to give you bags. Moreover, big items are kept on the bottom rack of the cart as they have for years. Something could have fallen out of one of those flimsy bags, I suppose.; 12/10/10, 6:20 PM
Fen said...: Rev: Yes, I know you're "not seeing it". Bit of a theme, there.

No. I was googling other articles on the topic and found it in one. Tried to google the Police Report but couldn't find it. Then came back to review this OP again.

And my my, you sure are quick to play the race card.; 12/10/10, 6:23 PM
former law student said...: if somene walks up behind you at a party and grabs your arm to get your attention, you consider that assualt?

Was the touching unwanted?
Did I find it offensive?

Then it was a battery.; 12/10/10, 6:24 PM
Fen said...: Fen you admitted you blow off door Nazis all the time

Yes, with impunity and glee. Why is that relevant?

what would you have done if some old guy had chased after you and grabbed you. You fit the profile, right? But I'm assuming you're not one of "you people."

Nope. My tribe doesn't push old ladies to the ground. Even if it happens by accident, my tribe checks to be sure the person is okay and helps them up. And if you're worried about retaliation as you're helping her back up, its a simple thing to call out for help and have someome else do it while you apologize from a distance.

"unbagged merchandise". All the stuff looked bagged to me

Check the DA's statement in the link.; 12/10/10, 6:31 PM
virgil xenophon said...: I suppose it would be "racist" to suggest to Ray "Chocolate City" Nagin that "your people" were the fat black female police officers seen looting the Tchoupitoulas St Walmart (MY neighborhood Walmart, btw) on national TV during Katrina. Or no?; 12/10/10, 6:38 PM
Fen said...: FLS: But I'm assuming you're not one of "you people."

My race is "other", so your assumption is wrong.; 12/10/10, 6:39 PM
chickelit said...: A racial incident in Milwaukee

Thank God it wasn't another "facial" incident.

Crack already took one for the team.; 12/10/10, 6:40 PM
Fen said...: I suppose it would be "racist" to suggest to Ray "Chocolate City" Nagin that "your people" were the fat black female police officers seen looting the Tchoupitoulas St Walmart

If I heard that, I would assume "you people" was in the context of "people under your command".

But Rev is the expert on the super secret nuances of racism. Maybe he'll take another shot at it.; 12/10/10, 6:41 PM
former law student said...: Check the DA's statement in the link.

As I thought. The only unbagged merchandise was merchandise that is never, ever, bagged: cases of water. So the old white woman hassled the regular black customer over perhaps $8 of water, for which the black woman had to spend a night in jail, with drunks and whores, away from her family.; 12/10/10, 6:47 PM
rcocean said...: I've worked - as a white struggling college student - in a 'Diverse' Big City retail store. And guess what? I found the Black customers the most prone to theft and difficult to deal with. And the Asians the most honest and easy to deal with. The whites and Hispanics were in-between. Do I generalize based on that? NO.

But when Granny says "Those people" are difficult to deal with, she's may be telling the un-PC truth.

Sometimes its racism, and sometimes it just the truth.; 12/10/10, 6:52 PM
Revenant said...: But tell me, if somene walks up behind you at a party and grabs your arm to get your attention, you consider that assualt?

Let's examine a less wildly irrelevant hypothetical: would I consider it assault if I was leaving a store carrying my legally purchased goods and a store employee grabbed my arm to stop me?

So far as I know it IS legally considered assault whether I think it is or not. Not felony aggravated assault of the sort you like to pretend you've committed many times; just the regular misdemeanor sort of the kind you (and, apparently, nobody else including the police) saw at 1:09.

I wouldn't bother calling the police on the perp unless the behavior persisted, though. I would just say something along the lines of "take your hand off my arm, right now, and go get your manager, right now, so we can discuss why I want you fired, right now".

And my my, you sure are quick to play the race card.

Yes, Fen, play the victim. It's cute.; 12/10/10, 6:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Well I'm sure this is SO far down the chain of comments that no one will read it but I just have one question: this younger woman caused the 100 year old woman to fall down and then just walks away?

I don't care WHAT words the older woman used, it's really inexcusable for the younger woman to do that to someone obviously that old. If the younger woman had a complaint, then she should have complained to WalMart, not knocked this non-physically threatening older woman to the ground and then walk away.; 12/10/10, 7:05 PM
Revenant said...: Do I generalize based on that? NO.

But when Granny says "Those people" are difficult to deal with, she's may be telling the un-PC truth.

The key difference, RC, is that she was generalizing and you, as you pointed out, don't.

Saying "most of my difficulties come from black people" may be "the un-PC truth", but saying "black people are difficult to deal with" is just a racist generalization.

Even if a person is so unfortunate as to have never met, e.g., an honest black man... that wouldn't magically transform a statement like "black people think they can get away with anything" into a non-racist remark. It would simply be a racist remark born out of understandable ignorance, as when (for example) a black man who has experienced vicious racism from whites makes a comment like "white people are inherently evil".; 12/10/10, 7:07 PM
Revenant said...: I don't care WHAT words the older woman used, it's really inexcusable for the younger woman to do that to someone obviously that old.

A person who wants to act like a thug better be able to back it up.

As it turns out, at age 100 people aren't so good at backing it up.; 12/10/10, 7:11 PM
John henry said...: Was she an anti-dentite?

John Henry; 12/10/10, 7:21 PM
John henry said...: In Puerto Rico we have receipt checkers at the Walmart exits.

If you offer to show your receipt they will mark it with a highlighter.

If you don't offer to show your receipt, they say "Have a nice day"

I've never been asked to show one. I've never observed anyone being asked to show one.

Most people, like my wife, seem to do it out of habit.

John Henry; 12/10/10, 7:31 PM
John henry said...: I never knew, and still don't think the person at the exit was called a "greeter". The person at the entrance as you go in is the greeter. They give you directions and so on.

But their primary purpose is to, by their mere presence, deter shoplifting. See Sam Walton's explanation in his bio.

Most Walmarts do not have a person at the exit, in my understanding. This is only done where shoplifting is a greater problem than normal. It annoys customers and costs $120-150m/yr per store for the person.

This is Walmart, not Sam's which operates differently.

I am a fan and regular shopper at both Sam's and Walmart.

I am also a fan of Walmart as a company. I think they are very good for American business and the American people. I say that as someone whose clients depend on Walmart for 30-75% of their total sales.

It has made American Manufacturers and service providers much better at their jobs. They may have gone to better productivity kicking and screaming, but they went. The alternative is not selling to Walmart.

John Henry

John Henry; 12/10/10, 7:38 PM
Fen said...: So far as I know it IS legally considered assault whether I think it is or not. Not felony aggravated assault

Okay, that distinction makes more sense.

Yes, Fen, play the victim. It's cute.

Pointing out your propensity to play the race card is hardly playing the victim.

A person who wants to act like a thug better be able to back it up.

Thug? Thats a bit hyperbolic. She wasn't touching the customer to restrain her, she was touching to get her attention (because the customer had earphones on and didn't hear her say stop).

But hey, if you want to pretend a 100-year-old woman is a thug....

Saying "most of my difficulties at my store come from black people" may be "the un-PC truth"

/fixed; 12/10/10, 7:58 PM
Teri said...: I hope that when I'm 100 years old I can run after someone, argue with them and fall down without breaking anything.; 12/10/10, 8:05 PM
Fen said...: realwest: this younger woman caused the 100 year old woman to fall down and then just walks away?
I don't care WHAT words the older woman used, it's really inexcusable for the younger woman to do that to someone obviously that old. If the younger woman had a complaint, then she should have complained to WalMart

One of the customer's excuses for fleeing the scene is that the greeter made racial remarks (note the the greeter denies this).

So there does seem to be a bigotry of low expectations. The other races aren't known for resorting to violence over perceived racial slurs. But we treat blacks as less-than-civilized, as if we expect them to revert to barbarism at the slightest offense.

And I have to agree with others that, if the races here were reversed, it would reach the notoriety of the Obama Beer Summit.; 12/10/10, 8:07 PM
Fen said...: If the younger woman had a complaint, then she should have complained to WalMart, not knocked this non-physically threatening older woman to the ground and then walk away

Actually, she said she now realizes that was what she should have done.; 12/10/10, 8:09 PM
Fen said...: FLS: As I thought. The only unbagged merchandise was merchandise that is never, ever, bagged: cases of water.

Don't be so quick. I thought the same thing, but Walmart also sells cases of water in 6-packs, which can be bagged.

So the old white woman hassled the regular black customer over perhaps $8 of water, for which the black woman had to spend a night in jail, with drunks and whores, away from her family.

Bigotry of low expectations. The "black woman" had to spend a night in jail because her actions caused injury. Not because she was hassled over $8 of water.; 12/10/10, 8:18 PM
Revenant said...: Thug? Thats a bit hyperbolic.

Assault, followed by an extended unnecessary search based on no evidence, followed by refusal to return Metcalf's property.

Thuggishness. That she pulled this shit at the age of 100 just makes her an idiot; it doesn't make her less of a thug.

She wasn't touching the customer to restrain her

I see you're back to claiming it was just a "touch".

She grabbed Metcalf's arm. That's restraint. No sane person grabs your arm just to get your attention, because people react badly to having their arms grabbed. Which is one of the reasons English common law has frowned on it for centuries.; 12/10/10, 9:10 PM
Fen said...: The DA doesn't agree with any of that.

Neither does Walmart, which reinstated her.

And you're really reaching to include her in your definition of "thug".; 12/10/10, 9:18 PM
Revenant said...: /fixed

The word you're searching for is "invented", Fen.

She didn't claim that black people are the main source of her trouble; you did. She didn't say that the shoplifters are "always" minorities; you did.

What she said was that "these types of people" (which she clarified, somewhat incoherently, as "Mexicans, Spanish, and colored people") often get upset when she checks their receipts. That's it. That's the whole of the wrongdoing she alleges -- that racial minorities "get upset" at her when she insists on doing something she's no right to insist on. Given her documented behavior on this videotape alone it is no surprised that people "get upset" with her.; 12/10/10, 9:22 PM
Fen said...: What she said was that "these types of people" (which she clarified, somewhat incoherently, as "Mexicans, Spanish, and colored people") often get upset when she checks their receipts in the store

/fixed again

Your prior post implied she had issues with "those people" outside of work. There's no evidence of that.

There's also the fact that in the 10 years she's worked there, no one has filed a complaint against her for racist behavior.; 12/10/10, 9:54 PM
Roux said...: And the old lady is absolutely right. For some reason, I can't even begin to know why, black people don't think they have to comply with the same rules I do. The response to "I'm sorry ma'am you can't smoke here" is met with very ugly words but only from black folks. I'm not sure what's up but it is much worse lately.; 12/10/10, 10:03 PM
Mikio said...: Racism in an upscale NY boutique (YouTube clip)

“You people” was said in the clip too and explicitly racist.

The best part I think is the gorgeous, Snow White-ish woman around the 4-minute mark who's so upset she cries. Yeah, I'm going to go with liberal. If she's a Fox News watcher or a Limbaugh fan, I’m one of Sen. Mitch McConnell’s fugitive eyebrows.; 12/10/10, 10:30 PM
William said...: I looked at the video Mikio linked to. It showed store personnel mistreating a black customer. The store personnel and the customer were actors. It was a set up to demonstrate how passive and undemonstrative the other white customers were in the presence of overt racism. Set up is the right word. What are the chances the same crowd would look passive and undemonstrative if a black customer unleashed a string of curses at a white store clerk for getting in their face? About the same is my guess. What are the chnces a television network would run a similar sting on a black store? Less than zero. Nobody ever won a Peabody for exposing black racism.; 12/10/10, 10:53 PM
William said...: I'm not unsympathetic to the black woman. The greeter acted inappropriately. But, for God's sake, the poor woman is one hundred years old. Give her some slack. There are no thuggish toddlers or centenarians.....File the old woman's comments under shit my granny says. The shopper is not Rosa Parks, and granny isn't Bull Connors......While the behavior of two different people can both be bad, their different behaviors cannot both be worse. The shopper was more to blame.....I make it a point to treat minimum wage people with courtesy and respect. Their life is tough enough already. Those who have sufficient time to create all these blogs, have sufficient time to submit to a five minute inspection, even if it's a bit officious. I don't think that woman was hurrying home to research a cure for childhood leukemia. She was telling granny that she was old and poor and she didn't have to put up with any of her bullshit.; 12/10/10, 11:08 PM
Revenant said...: But, for God's sake, the poor woman is one hundred years old. Give her some slack.

No. If she's too old to do her job properly and politely she can quit.; 12/11/10, 12:09 AM
Fen said...: Where did you get that she can't do her job properly because of her age?; 12/11/10, 12:15 AM
Revenant said...: /fixed again

Like I pointed out, Fen, "fixed" is not another word for "invented".

But even if you weren't fibbing about the "in the store" bit, and even if we weren't looking at video footage of her checking the receipt *outside* the store... she has no right to check the receipt in or out of the store.

Once a shopper makes his or her purchases that's it -- he or she owns the merchandise, the bags the merchandise is in, and the receipt that shows the record of purchase. The store's rights are limited to demanding that the purchaser return the shopping cart and leave the store.; 12/11/10, 12:22 AM
Revenant said...: Where did you get that she can't do her job properly because of her age?

From the person asking that she be cut some slack on account of her age.; 12/11/10, 12:25 AM
dick said...: In Queens, the Target store, the BLed, Bath and Beyond and Circuit City all make you show your receipt for what3ver you buy and they check the packages for everybody. This is not out of line with what other stores are doing.; 12/11/10, 1:50 AM
dick said...: Sorry - that should be Bed, Bath and Beyond - not BLed, Bath and Beyond. PIMF.; 12/11/10, 1:56 AM
dick said...: Sorry - that should be Bed, Bath and Beyond, not BLed, Bath and Beyond. PIMG.; 12/11/10, 1:57 AM
Fen said...: Rev: But even if you weren't fibbing about the "in the store" bit, and even if we weren't looking at video footage of her checking the receipt *outside* the store...

*sigh*

My intent was to distinguish between "at work" and "outside of work".

What she said was that "these types of people" often get upset when she checks their receipts in the store

so... "at the store", since you want to get wrapped around the axle on whether she's inside the store, outside the entrance, in the parking lot, etc.

Because you wrote: Saying "most of my difficulties come from black people" may be "the un-PC truth"

When her only difficulties with blacks occur while she performing her duties at the store.

And it stands to reason that minorities give her trouble in her "security" role. Because loss prevention records for retail show that almost 80% of shoplifting is commited by the minorities she listed.

she has no right to check the receipt in or out of the store. Once a shopper makes his or her purchases that's it -- he or she owns the merchandise, the bags the merchandise is in, and the receipt that shows the record of purchase. The store's rights are limited to demanding that the purchaser return the shopping cart and leave the store.

So? We don't disagree on this. Its a stupid policy. But I'm not going to damn the employee who's job it is to implement it.; 12/11/10, 8:25 AM
Anonymous said...: But, in a grocery store, a hell of a lot of the stealing is done by employees.

I worked at Macy's a few years ago and found the same situation there. Employees would ring up employee purchases and give unwarranted discounts (the Macy's computer system is not fraud proof at all). Another clerk called, told me she was going to be late and asked me to clock her in. Not shoplifting, but stealing just the same. (No, I didn't do it. And my fellow employees soon stopped asking me to ring up their purchases because I wouldn't give extra discounts. Yes, I am a corporate stooge.); 12/11/10, 9:20 AM
William said...: The long night of granny bashing continues. First they come for their thermostats, then they knock them on their ass if they get a little out of line. I can only conclude from Revenant's rabid hostility to centenarians, that he himself is a latent one. Every day a few more gray hairs, a little extra effort to climb the stairs. Much as he tries to suppress it, it won't be so long before he is a full on, flaming geezer. This he hates about himself and wishes to destroy when he sees it in others. I would urge him to get counselling for his rabid senilophobia.; 12/11/10, 9:42 AM
former law student said...: There's also the fact that in the 10 years she's worked there, no one has filed a complaint against her for racist behavior.

Fen has access to Walmart personnel files -- who knew?

1. Complaints could have been filed yet closed out as unwarranted.

2. Complaints could have been made but not filed.

3. Customers could have had cause for complaint but not willing to anger the crazy old white lady who has total say over whether they can leave the store with their purchases or not.

As Obama demonstrates, blacks often knuckle under to elderly white bullies.; 12/11/10, 10:07 AM
former law student said...: For all those who would excuse bullies on account of age -- did you protest the extradition of 89 year old John Demjanjuk?; 12/11/10, 10:15 AM
Fen said...: FLS: could...could...could...

Interesting how your hold the white woman to a higher standard than the black one. Where are all your coulda-woulda-shoulda's on behalf Speelman?; 12/11/10, 2:13 PM
Fen said...: FLS: For all those who would excuse bullies

What did she do to earn the "bully" demonization?; 12/11/10, 2:14 PM
Fen said...: Fen has access to Walmart personnel files -- who knew?

No, I have access to their statements on the matter.; 12/11/10, 2:15 PM
Revenant said...: My intent was to distinguish between "at work" and "outside of work".

There's no reason to draw that distinction. On-the-job racism isn't any more acceptable than off-the-job racism.

since you want to get wrapped around the axle on whether she's inside the store, outside the entrance, in the parking lot, etc.

Fen, Fen, Fen... do try to keep up. In the very post you're replying to, I stated:

"she has no right to check the receipt in or out of the store."

I'm not hung up on where the incident took place; like I pointed out, it doesn't matter where the incident took place because Speelman had no legal or moral right to check the receipt at all.

When her only difficulties with blacks occur while she performing her duties at the store.

First of all, there is no evidence for that claim. In fact, there isn't actually any evidence that blacks give her trouble; she just claims they do.

Secondly, it wouldn't even matter because she's damned by her own words. Her statement to Metcalf was "you [black people] think you can get away with anything". There is exactly one way for that statement to not be racist: if every black person she's aware of thinks they can get away with anything. But her only basis for the statement is that *some* -- more than none, less than all -- blacks get upset with her.

The two of you cheerfully label entire races based on the behavior of a subset. That's what makes you racists.; 12/11/10, 10:26 PM
Revenant said...: What did she do to earn the "bully" demonization?

She bullied someone. That's kind of how it works.

Honestly, the whole problem could have been averted if Metcalf had simply slapped Speelman's hand away, said "fuck off, you wrinkly old bitch", and headed off across the parking lot to her car.

Because she actually tried to act like a decent person and not make waves, she ended up getting harassed by some racist minimum-wage dipshit and had to spend a night in jail.

The moral of this story is that sooner or later you have to answer for your good behavior.; 12/11/10, 10:31 PM

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 248 of 248 Newer› Newest»

Althouse

December 10, 2010

A racial incident in Milwaukee.

248 comments:

Amazon

Support this blog with PayPal

Blog Archive

Althouse

December 10, 2010

A racial incident in Milwaukee.

248 comments:

Amazon

Support this blog with PayPal

Subscribe To Althouse

Blog Archive