January 9, 2011

Should we succumb to the temptation to engage in political rhetoric, making generalizations from the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords?

Yesterday, some folks leapt into scoring political points even before the surgeons got to Gabrielle Giffords's brain, before the body of the 9-year-old Christina Green had arrived at the funeral home. They couldn't wait to tell us what's wrong with America — as if there weren't something wrong with them for failing to hold off for a day, while other people were manifesting basic human decency.

These louts took advantage of the silence in the Theater of Respect and soliloquized about how the shooting resulted from and exemplified the terrible things about their political opponents. This either offended or annoyed the other players in the Theater of Respect, depending on whether they were genuinely decent people who mourn suffering or whether they simply felt constrained to behave as if they were.

That was yesterday. Today, it seems that everyone's ready to jump into the big generalizations game. But let's stop and think about this first. From everything we've seen so far, the gunman, Jared Lee Loughner, is deranged. Like many insane people, he connected up ideas that don't really connect:
A series of short videos posted on the Internet, apparently by Mr. Loughner, consist of changing blocs of text that are largely rambling and incoherent. Many take the form of stating a premise and then a logical conclusion that would follow from it.

They speak of being a “conscience dreamer”; becoming a treasurer of a new currency; controlling “English grammar structure”; mentioned brainwashing and suggested that he believed he had powers of mind control.

“In conclusion, my ambition — is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!”
Ironically, writers purporting to be horrified by what happened yesterday will take the shooting as their  premise and work — with what they think looks like sound reasoning — toward their conclusions.

Now, my question is: Should we resist? The event is vivid. We've got to keep talking and writing. Everyone else is doing it now....

First, you might want to resist because it's the right thing to do not only out of respect for the dead and wounded but also because Jared Loughner is probably just a crazy guy whose acts say nothing about anybody else.

But let's assume you're not that pure. You're a political animal, and you're not too fastidious about using the raw material that comes your way. I'd say you ought to think very hard about whether you want to use this shooting in your political rhetoric. You might want to adhere to the respect for the victims/crazy gunman position because it serves your political interests.

But whose interests are served by chewing up the wounded flesh in the meat grinder of political rhetoric and whose interests are served by pretending to be above all that? Liberals have an interest in creating a big distraction that might undercut the prevailing conservative momentum. To conservatives, I would say: Don't help them.

266 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 266 of 266
Chef Mojo said...

@Ritmo:

Dude, I am so showing all this to my kitchen. They're gonna love it. I can just see my sous reading your description of me and spitting out her coffee!

Before I lock her back in her cage.

J said...

Lest we furrget, Jared listed "We the Living" as a fave tome--not a leftist book (nor is.....Mein Kampf, regardless of what a Jonah Poodleberg yaps. Or Plato). And he said some fiat-currency BS ala Ron Paul. Now, assuming Jared's the culprit .....we can safely assume

the ghost of Aynnie Rand's pussay was involved in some way.

Anonymous said...

Obama's supporters have succumbed to the temptation:

NYTimes: "One veteran Democratic operative, who blames overheated rhetoric for the shooting, said President Barack Obama should carefully but forcefully do what his predecessor did 'They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,' said the Democrat. 'Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on... the militia and anti-government people.”

A conspiracy amongst top Democrats has begun to pin this shooting on Sarah Palin and the Tea Party.

It's out in the open. They're even telling their friends in the media about how it will work.

It's transparent and not frowned upon amongst Democrats.

The only way we're ever going to get past this type of political posturing is to eliminate Democrats from our political lives. They're not responsible enough to be in leadership positions and so we should just vote them all out.

This is just the latest example of their immaturity and unworthiness to hold political offices.

Nothing will change until it becomes politically unviable to do what AlphaLiberal is doing and what Barack Obama is being urged by top Democrat political operatives to do.

Moneyrunner said...

If you are of a certain age, you also remember that JFK’s assassin was supposed to be a right winger – because Texas was Right Wing. There was also, if I recall correctly, shouts of faux anger about hate speech. That lasted for months, until the evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was a devoted Communist and a fan of Castro got to be so overwhelming that even the MSM had to stop blaming it on the Right. That didn’t stop Oliver Stone from putting that story line into a movie and making JFK the victim of a shadowy Right Wing Cabal®.

Sorry to disagree with you Ann, but the “above the fray” approach was the way that George Bush handled the claim that he lied about WMDs in Iraq (when the belief that Saddam had them was universal). A lie has to be met with the truth because the unaided truth doesn’t stand a chance if no one utters it.

It is, however, not a good idea for the Right to make lists of Leftist “eliminationist rhetoric.” That’s playing the Left’s game by the Left’s rules and all you accomplish is letting the best cut-and-paster win a game without getting to the truth. The fact is that political rhetoric in today’s world only animates organized groups who are already in the violence business, such as the Muslims seeking to go on Jihad.

The way to handle this is to focus on the killer: is he a ideologue or a nut? If he has a political bias, it’s inevitable that that will be used to indict the group he adheres to. If he’s a nut (and the two are not mutually exclusive) it should be used to point out the political biases of the commentators. I think that this event will actually do more damage to the tattered reputation of the MSM than to either the Left or the Right.

Freeman Hunt said...

Some of you seem to think that political rhetoric now is worse than it was in ages past. Methinks you need a trip to the library to check out some old newspapers. Political rhetoric has, at some points in American history, been far worse than it is now.

SPImmortal said...

"Lest we furrget, Jared listed "We the Living" as a fave tome--not a leftist book (nor is.....Mein Kampf, regardless of what a Jonah Poodleberg yaps. Or Plato). And he said some fiat-currency BS ala Ron Paul. Now, assuming Jared's the culprit .....we can safely assume

the ghost of Aynnie Rand's pussay was involved in some way."

Nice try dude. Guiy was fervently anti-religion and has a youtube video of a flag burning.

He a product of the conspiracy culture promoted by leftists ever since notorious leftist dirtbag Oliver Stone released JFK, implying that it was some grand conspiracy that killed Kennedy rather than Bolshevik sympathizer Lee Harvey Oswald.

His ideals are unlikely to be uniform leftist because that's not how the minds of these conspiracy crazies egged on by the left work.

For an example of the left pandering to these people you can check out DemocraticUndergrounds 9/11 forum. Now that's a great example of extreme and violence laced rhetoric bearing fruit.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Worse or better than in the past isn't the point so much as is deadly effective now.

I'm not saying there's a direct correlation in this instance; the correlation's never direct anyway. But it should give everyone reason to pause and reconsider how they say things. I don't see what's so wrong about being willing to read a generalized caution or reminder into all this.

Opus One Media said...

perhaps so Freeman but never has there been such a blurring between truth and non-truth as now when the truth is available to all if they just look for it instead of having it handed to them in what ever form suits a purpose.

Please also remember that the rhetoric is non-stop 24/7 and from 50 different sources if there is one. Stuff like you refer to didn't come in waves of impressions...just here and there...call it the age we live in...but for this lunatic, it was enough to short circuit him into this tragedy.

Roger J. said...

Professor: if you care about tamping down the situation, perhaps your best tactic would have been not to open a thread to encourage some crazies who might use the opportunity.

Roger J. said...

Damn--I hate it when I agree with HD House.

Anonymous said...

Some of you seem to think that political rhetoric now is worse than it was in ages past.

I think that's because of the results. When Democrats have lost the House, when they're on their way to losing the Senate shortly and the White House next and they just lost 18 state legislatures and several governorships ... they simply must change the political debate if their fortunes are to change.

Any way they can. Even if its with the blood of a 9-year-old dead girl.

They're losing the debate. And so they're doing everything they can to change the terms of the debate and to get Republicans and Tea Partiers to unilaterally disarm.

What AlphaLiberal is doing is transparent. He's engaging in a long-term strategy to get successful Republican and Tea Party political strategies to be considered by the media to be beyond the pale.

He thinks if he can succeed, then he'll limit Democrat losses in the future.

I think he's wrong. Clearly Althouse thinks he's wrong and that this isn't serving long-term Democrat Party interests.

I agree with Althouse. This damages Democrats because it reminds them that the President of the United States urged his supporters to bring a gun to the knife fight.

It's simply too easy to link to their violent thug rhetoric.

Ritmo Re-Animated said...

Tying this guy to the left is as desperate and convoluted as is tying him to the right. The commenters from last night were right; his mind was too far gone for a coherent political conversation.

Trooper York said...

"This either offended or annoyed the other players in the Theater of Respect, depending on whether they were genuinely decent people who mourn suffering or whether they simply felt constrained to behave as if they were."

What the fuck?

Trooper York said...

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...
Tying this guy to the left is as desperate and convoluted as is tying him to the right. The commenters from last night were right; his mind was too far gone for a coherent political conversation.

You are exactly right. And that is what I said over and over again yesterday.

You can tell the sheeps and the goats from the response to this. It breaks down into two groups. Not Democrats or Republicans. Not liberals or conservatives.

It is decent people vs irredeemable douchebags.

Unknown said...

Alpha Liberal is losing it.. which is always fun to see... (I really like the agonized screaming of bullshit)

----Palin's graphic was no different than several used by the Democrats in their campaign.

I call bullshit. Steaming heaping bullshit.

Show us the Democratic leader or candidate who was so consistently using violent language and imagery. Who is the Democrat who used language like "reload" and uses rifle crosshairs over opponents? ---

I'll show you violent leadership.....

it was our President who said "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl."


it was his chief of staff who "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel

The Republican V.P. nom would be "gang-raped by my big black brothers" if she enters Manhattan, Bernhard said. Palin is said to be making a campaign stop in New York next week.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/09/19/2008-09-19_sandra_bernhard_issues_gang_rape_warning-2.html#ixzz1AZ97Io7n

Oh and lefty John Hinkle gets excused for shooting the President because there wasn't a climate of violence then. -- Sorry, as a military service member I was advised to not conspiciously wear my uniform in Illinois at that time. Don't rewrite history.

I'd like Alpha Liberal to take ownership of some more violent and insane lefties.

like the Virginia Tech shooter...

Violent hatred of the rich and wealthy, could have easily been inspired by far-left class warfare rhetoric. Violent hatred of God and religion, could have easily been inspired by left-wing hatred of religion.

Or obsessed Obama devotee Amy Bishop? Three killed, three wounded, February 12, 2010. An obsessed devotee of President Barack Hussein Obama.

http://the-american-catholic.com/2011/01/09/will-the-left-answer-for-any-of-this/

You mention border killings, how about this rancher killed?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/30/illegal-immigrant-suspected-murder-arizona-rancher/

and this border patrol agent killed?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/border-patrol-agent-shot-and-killed-in-san-diego-county.html

And the play about killing Bush???

Alpha Liberal's crazed holier than thou stuff is easily disproved. Do some more meditation Alpha, it will help you cope.

Lyle said...

Nothing is wrong with America actually. In an open society, these things happen and we must live with them.

SPImmortal said...

Worse or better than in the past isn't the point so much as is deadly effective now.

I'm not saying there's a direct correlation in this instance; the correlation's never direct anyway. But it should give everyone reason to pause and reconsider how they say things. I don't see what's so wrong about being willing to read a generalized caution or reminder into all this.

-----

You guys can't play the "can't we all just get along" schtick this time.

Per the NYT:

" Another former high school classmate said that Mr. Loughner may have met Representative Giffords, who was shot in the head outside the Safeway supermarket, several years ago.

“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”

“He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote. "

So he was a leftist, and we know exactly what the trigger was - the DailyKos post about how Giffords was "dead to them" two days before the shooting.

That's some messed up shit. Leftists want those who engage in violent rhetoric to be held accountable, and their completely right. Those on the left who engage in Alinky style tactics have reaped the whirlwind and now they need to be held accoutable.

DADvocate said...

Air America talk show host Randi Rhodes on George W. Bush:

"The Fredo of the family is the president of the United States, so why doesn't his father or his brother … take him out for a little fishing, and let him say some Hail Marys – he loves God so much. … You know, Hail Mary, full of grace, God is with thee – pow [gunshot sound] – works for me."

SPImmortal said...

Tying this guy to the left is as desperate and convoluted as is tying him to the right. The commenters from last night were right; his mind was too far gone for a coherent political conversation.

---------

Dude, don't try and duck the responsibility now that the truth is out.

The left needs to rachet down it's proclivity for "plausibly deniable" violence and it's penchant for Alinsky style tactics such as false flag operations and sickening attempts at blood libels against their opponents.

Anonymous said...

"Tying this guy to the left is as desperate and convoluted as is tying him to the right."

I disagree with this sentiment and find it disturbingly convenient that Democrats now don't want to know anything about this guy's politics once they found out he's not a Tea Partier and that his favorite books included Adolph Hitler's Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto.

It is trivially easy to tie the shooter's violence to left-wing political ideology.

This guy was another in a long, long list of deranged leftist murderers.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

If Glen Beck is to blame - where's the link to Loughner?

If Sarah Palin is to blame - where's the link to Loughner?

Did he say he was a follower of Palin or Beck - or a Tea Party member? NOPE.

Turns out the folks who know him say "yep - he's a leftist" and he likes leftwing books.

This information doesn't stop the left from lying about the connections.

New York Times:
Another former high school classmate said that Mr. Loughner may have met Representative Giffords, who was shot in the head outside the Safeway supermarket, several years ago.

“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”

“He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote.

urpower said...

Loughner doesn't sound deranged to me. By 'conscience dreaming' he surely means 'conscious dreaming' -- i.e. one who declares his dreams to be the reality, a common sentiment in the arts. cf. Thoreau ("Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake."). This fellow belongs to the lineage of Pop Assassins- like Mark David Chapman & John Hinkley, mixing fiction & reality, centering on a victim whose death, ala Dostoyevsky's Crime & Punishment or The Doors' "The End," will free him artistically into a new state. In this act he was a songwriter, writing a song.

cubanbob said...

The Kenyan In Chief is best buds with a left wing terrorist but somehow the usual suspects seem to overlook that little bit of trivia.

Another schmuck commenting on this blog mentions a traitor as if she is a paragon of wisdom. So lets recap here for a moment folks; a nut who reads Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto shoots a DINO who is practically a republican and just happens to be Jewish and it's the TEA Partiers who are at fault according the commies commenting on this blog. They are just as crazy as this nutjob shooter. In the meantime does anyone know the whereabouts of C4? The FBI might be interested.

Unknown said...

Alpha Liberal squeals like a Fraternity Girl....

I call bullshit. Steaming heaping bullshit.

Show us the Democratic leader or candidate who was so consistently using violent language and imagery. Who is the Democrat who used language like "reload" and uses rifle crosshairs over opponents?

------------------------------

Lets start with Obama himself who said “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Obama_brings_a_gun_to_a_knife_fight.html

Hmmm.. do you think the Untouchables was a non-violent movie?

Lets continue with Obama's chief of staff who has been reported to Emanuel is said """On the night after the 1996 election, "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name."""

You can just feel the lefty love can't you? Such a high minded pursuit of achieving what is good for the American people.

How about Obama obsessed Amy Bishop? Three killed, three wounded, February 12, 2010. An obsessed devotee of President Barack Hussein Obama.


Alpha, you own Virginia Tech killer? 32 killed, 25 wounded, April 16, 2007. Violent hatred of the rich and wealthy, could have easily been inspired by far-left class warfare rhetoric. Violent hatred of God and religion, could have easily been inspired by left-wing hatred of religion.

You also have your share of the border wars violence. It not conservatives who are murdering Border Patrol agents and ranchers.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/03/30/20100330krentz.html

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Slain-Border-Patrol-Agent-identified/-BxsD0Xcb0K8_IMHe5tVOg.cspx

Down the memory hole that is Liberalism goes the Bush murder play

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/arts/2007/04/11/2007-04-11_rightwingers_outraged_by_prez_slay_play-1.html


The protests...

One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush’s assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.

“BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE,” read the placard, which had an X over the word “ALIVE.”

Another poster showed Bush’s face with the words: “F— YOU, MOTHERF—ER!”

A third sign urged motorists to “HONK IF YOU HATE BUSH.” A fourth declared: “CHRISTIAN FASCISM,” with a swastika in place of the letter S in each word.


Oh, and Alpha Liberal, your depiction of the Reagan years as a time of unicorns and baloons is moisture eminating fecal material as well. I was in the military then and was warned not to conspicuously display my uniform in Glenview Illinois because of the lefty terrorists in the neighborhood.

Thanks Alpha Liberal, for the chance to walk down the memory lane of lefty - crazy - violent speech and acts.

SPImmortal said...

Hey Alpha Liberal,

I think the least you could do is come in here and apologise for yet another blood libel you and your cronies have tried to perpetrate against Rush, Beck, Palin, et al, just like you did with the pentagon shooter and the

Now we know the truth about this guy's political leanings and it seems he was motivated by liberal conspiracy mongering and DailyKos' veiled calls to violence.

It's time to stop the madness.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

So Loughner, a radical leftwinger, thinks the more moderate democrat (Giffords) is "Stupid and unintelligent".

Yeah - must be Palin's fault.

BTW - you so called lovers of free speech on the left: The word "target" is really horrid when conservatives use it, right? Why not suggest the government create a law that states only leftists can use the word "target".

Jane Fonda would approve too.

mariner said...

lyssalovelyredhead,

(to AL): Otherwise, blow it out your ass.


He has, for a long time now.

When I see his name or initials on a reply, I just scroll right on past it.

Charlie Martin said...

Verum Serum posted your rebuttal yesterday showing almost the same type of messages by the Democratic Congrssional Campaign Committee run by Van Hollen, who now decries Palin imagery. The DCCC even uses the same map version with "Bullseye" instead of "crosshairs" (and labels them bullseys) in case you miss the imagery. They go on to call the GOP Congresspersons in the Bullseyes as "targeted Republicans" for opposing the stimulus.

It's worth noting that the bullseye is explicitly a target-sports symbol, but the Palin folks are right they used a surveying symbol.

Unknown said...

Alpha Liberal squeals like a Fraternity Girl....

I call bullshit. Steaming heaping bullshit.

Show us the Democratic leader or candidate..

OK Lets start with Obama himself who said “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl."

- in politico


Lets continue with Obama's chief of staff who has been reported to Emanuel is said "On the night after the 1996 election, "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name."

You can just feel the lefty love can't you? Such a high minded pursuit of achieving what is good for the American people.

How about Obama obsessed Amy Bishop? Three killed, three wounded, February 12, 2010. An obsessed devotee of President Barack Hussein Obama.

Alpha, you also own Virginia Tech killer? 32 killed, 25 wounded, April 16, 2007. Americna Catholic said 'Violent hatred of the rich and wealthy, could have easily been inspired by far-left class warfare rhetoric. Violent hatred of God and religion, could have easily been inspired by left-wing hatred of religion.'

You also have your share of the border wars violence. It not conservatives who are murdering Border Patrol agents and ranchers.

Down the memory hole that is Liberalism goes the English Bush murder movie...

Down the memory hole that is Liberalism goes the Bush murder book "Checkpoint"...

Down the memory hole that is Liberalism goes the Bush murder play...

A FAMED CITY theater group is inviting controversy by staging a play in which a character thinly veiled as President Bush gets assassinated. "President and Man" begins a five-day run at The Duke on 42nd St. tonight as one of eight one-act plays staged by the Naked Angels Theater Company, whose members include Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick...

Down the memory hole that is Liberalism goes the Bush protest invective...

One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush’s assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.

“BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE,” read the placard, which had an X over the word “ALIVE.”

Another poster showed Bush’s face with the words: “F— YOU, MOTHERF—ER!”

A third sign urged motorists to “HONK IF YOU HATE BUSH.” A fourth declared: “CHRISTIAN FASCISM,” with a swastika in place of the letter S in each word.


Oh, and Alpha Liberal, your depiction of the Reagan years as a time of unicorns and baloons is moisture vapor eminating fecal material as well. I was in the military then and was warned not to conspicuously display my uniform in Glenview Illinois because of the lefty terrorists in the neighborhood.

Thanks Alpha Liberal, for the chance to walk down the memory lane of lefty - crazy - violent speech and acts. Own it.

Freeman Hunt said...

I don't agree that rhetoric now is more damaging than in the past. But even that aside...

So some of you seem to be saying that everyone should police their rhetoric for the rare undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who may or may not be triggered by such rhetoric?

Crazy.

Though not as crazy as Loughner.

I would also point out that there is currently zero evidence that his attack was triggered by any political rhetoric. In fact, evidence so far seems to suggest that he had been on the decline into madness for some time, and it culminated in this tragedy.

If you truly want to prevent things like this, forget rhetoric. Encourage people to get help for relatives and acquaintances who begin exhibiting signs of mental disturbance. His YouTube videos should have been a huge red flag to anyone who knew him. Same with his outbursts in his classes. The community college he attended even decided that he couldn't come back without a mental health clearance, so it was already known that something was amiss in this man's mind. Too bad no one got him to a doctor in time.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

"Crosshairs". Another word we must strike from the violent rhetoric of the right.

Right, oh holy leftwing keepers of free speech?

jamboree said...

I don't even see it as being a political animal except in some very cynical cases. I see it as a case of sincere, earnest, projected hate. They believe what they are saying, are filled with hate and contempt, and project it along the well-worn avenues inside their head.

The right can do this as well, of course, but it does seem in these cases, that there is a tendency for those who don't know, the young, the uneducated, so assume assassins are right wing when they are not.

My first childhood memories of violent types were all left wing (Manson, Fromme, Pattie Hearst/SLA, Hinkley) were all in the news when I was zero to eleven years old, and yet even I still assumed the guy who killed Kennedy was a right-winger who didn't like his position on race relations. It happened before I was born. I have republican/libertarian sympathies. How did I make such a stupid error except to absorb the overall context in which it has always been presented to me?

I admit that I can be filled with anger - the idea that Prop 13 could be repealed and completely screw the older members of my family because of some overspending assholes with fat pensions fills me with hate which I deal with. I just wish the left would own up to theirs instead of projecting it onto the right.

Unknown said...

----If you truly want to prevent things like this, forget rhetoric. Encourage people to get help for relatives and acquaintances who begin exhibiting signs of mental disturbance.

A wise post - one that speaks to our real human condition. Thanks.

But I have to note as someone who left the helping profession. This was all the predictable result when the left decided to empty mental hospitals and enact barriers to treat people who are this seriously ill. If you examine crime statistics in America, they all soared in the late 60's when mental illness was made a choice to be respected.

Like the Virginia Tech shooter, somewhere in this killer's background are people who loved him and really wanted to get him help.

cubanbob said...

The Kenyan In Chief is best buds with a left wing terrorist but somehow the usual suspects seem to overlook that little bit of trivia.

Another schmuck commenting on this blog mentions a traitor as if she is a paragon of wisdom. So lets recap here for a moment folks; a nut who reads Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto shoots a DINO who is practically a republican and just happens to be Jewish and it's the TEA Partiers who are at fault according the commies commenting on this blog. They are just as crazy as this nutjob shooter. In the meantime does anyone know the whereabouts of C4? The FBI might be interested.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

*cough*

The Crack Emcee said...

Yesterday, some folks leapt into scoring political points even before the surgeons got to Gabrielle Giffords's brain, before the body of the 9-year-old Christina Green had arrived at the funeral home. They couldn't wait to tell us what's wrong with America — as if there weren't something wrong with them for failing to hold off for a day, while other people were manifesting basic human decency.

These louts took advantage of the silence in the Theater of Respect and soliloquized about how the shooting resulted from and exemplified the terrible things about their political opponents.


Two words:

Elizabeth Edwards.

Jesus, Ann - seriously - do you think about what YOU'VE done/said before you write these things?

Kathy Murray said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Crack Emcee said...

And everyone sticking to politics - and not left wing spirituality where all the action is - means you'll never get to the bottom of it.

Until you do so, you just look like a silly bunch of Punch and Judy's to me.

Trooper York said...

Crack Emcee
Two words:

Elizabeth Edwards.

Jesus, Ann - seriously - do you think about what YOU'VE done/said before you write these things?"

Dude!!!!!!!

He shoots he scores!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right on the money!!!!

Trooper York said...

Scantimony is not becoming. Just sayn'

james said...

you scream FIRE in a crowded theater and a stampede ensues. it's not difficult to discern who is accountable and responsible for the resulting mayhem.

Freeman Hunt said...

Crack, I agree with you that left wing spirituality is bad bad bad.

But look at the guy's videos. I'd bet $10,000 he's an untreated paranoid schizophrenic.

However, I suppose you could argue that left wing spirituality contributed to his not being treated. The whole "do your own thing--even if you're clinically insane."

Sprezzatura said...

"Jesus, Ann - seriously - do you think about what YOU'VE done/said before you write these things?"

Did Althouse ever reconsider her hair-trigger condemnation of a dying lady's last thoughts?

I doubt it. Althouse (at least, the tubes version of Althouse) doesn't seem to admit errors, beyond the occasional typo. The Althouse character also seems to avoid self-deprecation.

The characteristics/traits of a blogger could differ from the characteristics of the whole person behind the blog. I dunno.

The Scythian said...

The things that Loughner wrote show the same kind of alien pseudo-logic seen in the writings of paranoid schizophrenics. He's a nut.

So far, it doesn't look like partisan political rhetoric had anything to do with this.

Even if it did, so what?

Mark David Chapman drew twisted inspiration from Catcher in the Rye. Charles Manson saw an apocalyptic future in the Beatles' song Helter Skelter. That douchebag who opened fire in a local government meeting a few weeks back drew inspiration from a goofy post-superhero comic book.

Even if overheated political played a role (and so far, there's no evidence to suggest it did), the diseased mind can turn anything into a motive for brutal murder.

jamboree said...

@SPImmortal

Don't you see that you just aren't sensitized to the instances coming from the Dem side? You don't feel them, but I do.

I felt every single "Palin is a cunt" t-shirts, "Let's buttfuck Ann Coulter", interacial gang rape wishes, etc. etc. coming from the media figures and friends of mine IRL as well. Hillary also took her share of that kind of abuse *from her own side* during the last election when she dared seriously challenge Obama- and I felt every one of those as well.

It was horrific. So please fuck off with your "there is no equivalent" on the Dem side bullshit. Just because you don't feel it because you aren't the target, doesn't mean it isn't there.

And I haven't even touched on Bush derangement.

Freeman Hunt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freeman Hunt said...

Even if overheated political played a role (and so far, there's no evidence to suggest it did), the diseased mind can turn anything into a motive for brutal murder.

Exactly.

As a thought experiment, try to imagine being inside the mind of a paranoid schizophrenic. Everything is connected. Letters, numbers, people, places, governments, all of it works in concert. And it's working against you! Not only that, but you can't escape it by keeping to yourself because this conspiracy is working to control your mind. Even worse, you're the only one who understands what's going on. No one else can see it, and you assume it's because the conspiracy has already brainwashed everyone else and taken control of their minds.

Of course these people act out violently when left untreated. They truly believe that they are under attack, and they're desperate. There is no rhetoric more violent that what they already believe.

I am guessing that that is what happened in this case. The killer's videos suggest that he believed people were out to get him, that there was a vast conspiracy of mind control carried out through controlling culture and language, and he even wanted to make up a new language and alphabet, perhaps to escape this.

Unknown said...

Great post by Ann, and she is almost certainly correct when she says,
"Jared Loughner is probably just a crazy guy whose acts say nothing about anybody else."

He is obviously completely insane; there's no coherence to his thinking at all.

That said, it's completely understandable why everyone on the right is on the defensive, and why almost everyone in the nation, coast to coast, north to south, left to right, immediately wondered if this wasn't a case of a conservative ACTING OUT what so many conservatives have been talking about doing for over two years -- pretty much ever since late summer of 2008, when the first mobs started calling for violence to achieve conservative political ends.

We all read the internet; we've all seen the rampant comments left by tea partiers in comments on blogs, youtube videos, newspaper sites. We've all heard the rampant rhetoric of people like Sharron Angle, and we've all seen the refusal of mainstream conservatism to disavow the violent rhetoric that has been pouring forth from the GOP. WE've all seen the signs at tea party events promising revolution unless conservative demands are met. We've all been waiting with baited breath for the other shoe to drop. So it's completely understandable why (a) everyone immediately wondered if this was an act of conservative terrorism, and (b) why conservatives are so defensive.

They've been promising murder for a long time.

Unknown said...

Oops- Alpha mailing in the propaganda..

A West Hollywood Halloween display showing a likeness of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin hanging by a noose has caused a furor among some residents who reported it as a hate crime, authorities said Monday.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/28/local/me-palineffigy28

aint google great???

DADvocate said...

Playing basketball in high school, if we were winning, our coach would tell us to "kick'em while they're down." We knew he didn't mean it literally.

The players on my son's high school team talk about kicking the other team's ass. They don't mean it literally. I've never seen anyone kick another player in the ass.

Actually, I think Alpha is the most likely of anyone commenting here to make a crazy, violent attack on someone for political "reasons." He perseverates and obsesses about conservative violence while having little apparent acceptance or grasp of reality. At some point, he may decide the only way to stop the violence is to kill them all. And, he'll feel perfectly justified because the real threat of violence is from the conservatives and they must be stopped.

Unknown said...

----We've all heard the rampant rhetoric of people like Sharron Angle, and we've all seen the refusal of mainstream conservatism to disavow the violent rhetoric that has been pouring forth from the GOP.

Factless drooling aimed at silencing opposing viewpoints.

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/09/19/2008-09-19_sandra_bernhard_issues_gang_rape_warning-2.html

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-latinos-punish-your-enemies-voting-booth_511932.html

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”

http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2011/01/09/breaking-democrats-plotted-to-blame-tea-party-for-slaughter/

Play 43-dog in the lefty playbook

DADvocate said...

Before George W. Bush was elected the violent rhetoric had begun.

...August 4 edition of "The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn" anytime soon, here's a video still from that evening's infamous "In The News" segment. In a monumentally dumb bit, the show super imposed the words "Snipers Wanted" over an image of Bush delivering his acceptance speech at the Republican convention.

Caroline said...

pretty much ever since late summer of 2008, when the first mobs started calling for violence to achieve conservative political ends.

Were you, and others like you who are suddenly so concerned about violent rhetoric, in a coma prior to 2008? Or are you just afraid of conservatives? Because lefties were calling for all sorts of violence during the Bush years, and anarchists having been actively engaging in violent acts for decades.

As for commenters on blogs and Youtube, get a grip. If I were to judge society as a whole, based on what I read in comment sections, I would never leave the house.

DADvocate said...

...the diseased mind can turn anything into a motive for brutal murder.

Quite true. While I worked in mental health, two patients I knew were murdered by other patients. One was stabbed to death with an ice pick in a love triangle. The other was stabbed to death with a pencil because he wouldn't give the other guy a cigarette.

DADvocate said...

Were you, and others like you who are suddenly so concerned about violent rhetoric, in a coma prior to 2008?

Really. The Craig Kilborn incident occurred in 2000.

Caroline said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
james said...

there is a documented history of the Right Wing promoting violence to express their frustrated, anti-government grievances. the bombing of clinics and doctor's offices to protest abortion is a prime example; to refrsh your memories, google "murder" and "George Tiller". more recently: the pilot who crashed his small plane into a Texas IRS bldg to protest the heavy hand of the Tax man. the Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting from the deranged anti-Semitic, anti-immigration racist. encouraging supporters to bring guns to Obama 2008 presidential campaign events ... normal looking GOP 'soldiers' unnecessarily bearing rifles and sidearms to political rallies -- yes, legal but not real smart from a public safety standpoint.

more recently the Tea Party has included violence to their messaging machine: all the psycho talk from Palin that she "targeted" Democrats and encouraged supporters to "reload" and "take aim" at them ... she even published a map with "crosshairs" to illustrate her aim (interestingly the Palin website purged references to their "gun sights map" within minutes of the news breaking; Sister Sarah and her peeps obviously can connect the dots her) ; Sharon Angle talked about "domestic enemies" in the Congress and promoting "2nd Amendment remedies" ; the Tea Party political ads across the country trading on the American Revolution theme in their attacks on the Obama agenda and gravely proclaiming to "gather your armies." all of this insane rhetoric contributes to sanctioning the sentiment that violent actions against your enemies is honorable and therefore acceptable.

to a Sane audience the inciting of the masses with violent hyperbole is not the problem ... it is basically accepted for what it is, political theater. but the danger lies with the Not-so-Sane among us, they are not equipped to readily separate Hyperbole from Reality. there's the rub, to the Insane this irresponsible, crazy chatter blaring from their TVs and radios is their Normal. the crazy talk resonates and ratifies their irrational instincts. it makes complete sense -- so gather your army and remedy those who you believe have wronged you.

Gabby Giffords' prophetic comments on Sarah Palin's ill-advised map targetting her personally say it all: "The thing is, the way that she [Palin] has it depicted -- the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district -- when people do that, they've got to realize that there's consequences for that action." unfortunately, we now know what Consequences look like .... enuf said.

Unknown said...

Ooops.. Another violent lefty..

Federal authorities have arrested a Philadelphia man and charged him with threatening to kill House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and his family.

Norman Leboon will be charged with two federal counts: threatening to kill a member of Congress and interfering with his federal duties, and posting video online containing such threats. He is scheduled to appear in federal district court in Philadelphia on Monday afternoon.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35152.html

Caroline said...

but the danger lies with the Not-so-Sane among us, they are not equipped to readily separate Hyperbole from Reality. there's the rub, to the Insane this irresponsible, crazy chatter blaring from their TVs and radios is their Normal. the crazy talk resonates and ratifies their irrational instincts.

Do you know any insane people? I do. The voices in their heads can drown out that from any talk radio. You can tell them "I love you" and they will hear something completely different. They are not getting their messages from Sarah Palin any more than that guy got a message form Jodie Foster to shoot Reagan.

An insane person can look into the eyes of a dog, and hear directives to slaughter brown-haired girls sitting in cars (see Son of Sam). We can't tailor our metaphorical speech to the sensibilities of the insane among us. That's crazy talk.

Michael said...

Jimmy: Do you think it would help if the concept of metaphor was taught in schools? And simile? So that people could realize that the word "target" is not a Pavlovian signal to kill somebody but rather a call to action to single out someone to beat in an election. Sorry I used the word beat because it is both judgmental and suggests a violent action. Let me amend it to say "get more votes than an opponent in an election." I think that if you believe the words you mention are capable of causing someone to kill another person you have a very low, very liberal, opinion of people's intelligence.

Unknown said...

Ooops another Lefty Congressperson, accusing Veterans of the military of being violent.....

The topper statement is from State Congressional Representative Linda Lopez, who is about as far-Left as you can get. Not that that’s a particular issue, but, given her next statement, we’ve got a HUGE problem …

”the shooter is likely, from what I’ve heard, an Afghan vet..”

Yep, what Obama needs to do is deftly tie this violently mentally ill young man to the Tea Party and other lefty hate objects

Unknown said...

Ooooopsss...

Another violent lefty...

CBS is apologizing and the Secret Service has launched an investigation after a late-night television host aired a photograph of GOP presidential nominee George W. Bush accepting his party's nomination at the Republican National Convention - with the words "SNIPERS WANTED" emblazoned across the bottom of the television screen.

Hey, Secret Service Man, what was the result of that investigation?

DADvocate said...

Jimmy - your forgot about Chris Powers who firebombed Russ Carnahan's office. Oops, Powers was a disgruntled, lefty ex-employee.

You're engaging in the same kind of logic as the "insane" you speak of. Watch you grammar, too. You shouldn't be capitalizing "sane" and
"insane" the way you do. Some crazy people are really upset by bad grammar and you're inciting them.

Freeman Hunt said...

to a Sane audience the inciting of the masses with violent hyperbole is not the problem ... it is basically accepted for what it is, political theater. but the danger lies with the Not-so-Sane among us, they are not equipped to readily separate Hyperbole from Reality. there's the rub, to the Insane this irresponsible, crazy chatter blaring from their TVs and radios is their Normal. the crazy talk resonates and ratifies their irrational instincts.

No, that's you thinking like a sane person. They are insane, not easily suggestible. In fact, their loved ones are often constantly trying to suggest things to them to no avail. The problem isn't that they take things the wrong way, it's that they imagine things all together or that they take totally innocuous things (like letters or pets or whatever) and imagine them to be sinister.

And even if what you're arguing were true, which it isn't, the idea that the rhetoric from the right is more violent than the rhetoric from the left is wrong, and, in any case, sane people shouldn't give up their violent metaphors on the off chance that an insane person might take them the wrong way.

Milwaukie guy said...

Just catching up on these shooting posts. Sorry for bringing up a minor point from threads earlier....

Someone mentioned Palin's map "crosshairs" as being surveryor's marks or something. That is so true. Transits have scopes and crosshairs, too. In the graphics trade, they are called registration marks and in the old days, they were sold on strips of tape so graphic designers and surveryors could use them on their layouts or maps.

Apologies for the interruption.

wv: batacili: germ warfare

Unknown said...

Ooops - Alpha Liberul,

At a commencement address he delivered at Queens College on June 1, 2006, Hevesi told his audience that Senator Charles Schumer was so tough he would "put a bullet between the President's eyes if he could get away with it." Several hours after his remarks, Hevesi apologized for his comments, calling them "beyond dumb," "remarkably stupid," and "incredibly moronic."[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Hevesi

This is a nice opportunity to remember golden moments in Lefty Vitriol and hate.

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