March 31, 2011

Andrew Sullivan is "still absorbing" the "surreal," "discordant" news that the U.S. has gone into "yet another war against yet another tyranny simply because we can."

It's "so fantastically contrary to everything he campaigned on" that Sullivan "simply cannot believe it." He knows " the president is not against all wars - just dumb ones. But could any war be dumber than this - in a place with no potential for civil society, wrecked by totalitarianism, riven by tribalism, in defense of rebels we do not know and who are clearly insufficient to the task?"

How could Obama do something... dumb? He was all about smart. He was the smartest guy there ever ever ever was. The Sullivan brain locks up and crashes. Nooooooooooo!

101 comments:

Tim said...

Rube.

They all were.

Sucks for the rest of us though.

Scott M said...

When Obama lost Sullivan, he knew he'd lost the rube vote. For Sullivan's part, the unwritten subtext there is that somehow, somewhere, Obama's going into Libya is Palin's fault.

Honestly, if the scuttlebutt about Sunstein's wife having the President's ear on this is true, that much scarier than anything Sullivan has ever posited.

Chip S. said...

Why, it's as if the guy campaigned explicitly against an individual mandate to buy health insurance and then brokered his way through the Congress to enact one.

Drew said...

I keep trying to coax this sort of revelation out of my lefty friends, but many of them simply refuse to accept that Obama isn't perfectwonderfulmarvelous. I try to be kind. I realize I'm dealing with people who are totally brainwashed. You have to let them down easily.

I think mass deprogramming will be necessary, and I'm not kidding about that.

TMink said...

Wow, Sullivan is growing sullen and disillusioned about a president? That never happened before.

I blame Palin's ovaries.

Trey

Fred4Pres said...

Andrew Sullivan: "I know the president is not against all wars - just dumb ones. But could any war be dumber than this - in a place with no potential for civil society, wrecked by totalitarianism, riven by tribalism, in defense of rebels we do not know and who are clearly insufficient to the task?"

I think he is gobsmacked.

Hagar said...

Well, if you had listened to that speech Monday night, you would have heard him claiming Presidential powers beyond anything George W., or even Cheney, evr laid claims to, in between all that jazz about "the international community."

tim maguire said...

After what happened to Sullivan when Bush lost him, I can't wait to see what he turns into this time.

pbAndj said...

So, Sully--let down by his most recent political crush---may be starting a turn toward a new object of affection.

Shocking!!!!11!!!!!1

ALH said...

As Andrew Sullivan might say: "Meep-meep"

ALH said...

"So, Sully--let down by his most recent political crush---may be starting a turn toward a new object of affection"

Since Althouse is not the correct gender...how about Meade?

wv: bless

MadisonMan said...

After what happened to Sullivan when Bush lost him, I can't wait to see what he turns into this time.

Yes, this part of the future will be very interesting. And also how people who occasionally read him via links react to the change, whatever it is.

traditionalguy said...

Sullivan has a point: no way that Obama is this dumb. Obama is only screwing up if you cannot see that Obama has just, in plain sight, established a new tradition of UN authorized wars using loaned US Military assets, and done this as if Congress has been abolished. Plus the artificial oil scarcity for a long civil war quagmire pumps up those Soros Brazilian assets that Obama was off working for the day that he did this attack. After Soros has sold his Brazilian assets, then the same con can be repeated elsewhere. That in a nutshell is the USA's national interest here...I mean Obama/Soros's interest...in a Libyan clusterfuck.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)




All I can say is after Sullivan turned on Boooosh, look what happened…Obama and all of us bystanders had better pray that Michelle or Melia don’t get pregnant, because Inspector Sullivan is relentless when he’s on a case involving a uterus.

edutcher said...

Insta has an article with the best description of this mess - Wilsonian.

Woody sent troops, mostly Marines IIRC, all over the Caribbean basin and couldn't wait to get us into WWI (after running on the slogan, "He Kept Us Out of war", in 1916).

Granted, Little Zero was hoping for some Rally Round the Flag effect to help his poll numbers, and that's probably how the Furies talked him into it, but Andy's ruined boycrush is symptomatic of the bad news for the Demos in '12.

Quaestor said...

Drew wrote: I think mass deprogramming will be necessary, and I'm not kidding about that.

We'll need about 52 million weekend rooms at the Motel 6 with Domino's delivery and a pallet of Sucrets (shouting makes me hoarse).

Lem said...

Mayday Mayday Mayday!

lol

Freeman Hunt said...

It would have been smart if we'd just taken out KeDofFey.

I think I'll go through a phase of spelling his name differently each time I type it.

ThreeSheets said...

Hey Andrew...what if Malia is really Britol's daughter?

Scott M said...

I think I'll go through a phase of spelling his name differently each time I type it.

I've just been getting by with "the good colonel" and it seems to work.

reader_iam said...

Obama is like Bush, and Sullivan is still an asshole.

John said...

I don't care. Obama is awesome.

DADvocate said...

Reality slaps him in the face and he still doesn't get it.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Coketown said...

"...in a place with no potential for civil society, wrecked by totalitarianism, riven by tribalism..."

But enough about Miss Sullivan's boudoir. Hahahaha!

But seriously, fetch her smelling salts lest she faints. It's a terrible tragedy to lose one's idol so close to April Fools.

Freeman Hunt said...

K-Fed-Offi shouldn't be in a position of power, so I support his ouster (if it happens.)

Then signs could read, "You are entering Libya. Now under new management! :)"

Tyrants beware.

(With Congressional approval from now on I hope.)

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

Being Excitable Andy must be difficult. He pulls his head out of Sarah Palin's vagina and look what happens. Another American president has let him down.

Maybe he'll be disillusioned enough to move back to the motherland.

Freeman Hunt said...

in a place with no potential for civil society, wrecked by totalitarianism, riven by tribalism, in defense of rebels we do not know and who are clearly insufficient to the task

On the upside, we won't have to rebuild anything.

Or is this an example of a place where colonialism, so out of fashion, wouldn't be such a bad deal for the inhabitants?

murgatroyd666 said...

At this point, Sullivan will have to shift his affections to either Mike Huckabee or Rand Paul.

But he definitely won't warm up to either Sarah Palin or Hillary Clinton, no matter what. They have those vajayjay thingies, you know. And cooties.

Quaestor said...

John wrote: I don't care. Obama is awesome.

Repeat after me: Oceania hasn't always been at war with Eurasia. War is war. Peace is peace. Freedom isn't slavery. Goldstein is entitled to his opinion.

reader_iam said...

What does he mean by "absorbing" anyway?

Victor Erimita said...

I'm all for dumping on the execrable Sullivan, who in fact should be more ignored than dumped on. But I'm failing to se the applicability of the "rube" narrative on this issue. It seems to me the "rube" narrative applies to those who imagined a man who had never held a real job would be even marginally competent as president. It seems applicable to all the "moderates" who failed to notice that Obama is a lifetime movement radical who wants to weaken as much of what America is as possible in his first term. Those were readily apparent to anyone paying attention before the election.

But I do not see what the hints were that Obama would be a war, er, I mean a kinetic military action monger. Am I missing something?

Quaestor said...

Coketown wrote: ... fetch her smelling salts lest she faints.

Mme Sullivan has a spell of the vapours! Oh, dear... don't forget to loosen her corset stays! You deal with the whalebone, I'll get the smelling salts.

JimMuy said...

If only there was someone who would have, could have! told all of us before the election that it was dangerous and stupid to let this guy with no real-world experience and a history of saying anything to get elected near the White House.

Besides all the racists, that is.

Scott M said...

What does he mean by "absorbing" anyway?

I've always thought Sullivan to be a bit borg-ish.

SMGalbraith said...

Partisan glee aside, the US is now faced with quite a problem. If we fail and Qaddafi survives, the other dictators in the region - if not the rest of the world - will follow his approach.

The Arab Spring really will turn out to 1848.

And from that, more violence and an increasing radicalization of this Arab generation.

Freeman Hunt said...

I remember someone saying that McCain seemed erratic, and that that was a reason for voting Obama.

Lem said...

Andrew Sullivan is "still absorbing" the "surreal," "discordant" news..

And here we thought Obama was slow.

Sigivald said...

Andrew Sullivan, like history, repeats first as farce, then as tragedy.

(And I'm with Tim Maguire - I can't wait to see what Sullivan unleashes against Obama.

On the other hand, maybe that only happens when a President he used to love does something he dislikes about gay marriage, not in general?

We'll find out, I guess. Unless Obama decides to throw gay marriage under the bus to win votes, in which case the two alternatives will be conflated.)

Lem said...

What does he mean by "absorbing" anyway?

Maybe he meant sniffing.

Smilin' Jack said...

But could any war be dumber than this - in a place with no potential for civil society, wrecked by totalitarianism, riven by tribalism, in defense of rebels we do not know and who are clearly insufficient to the task?

Well, you have to give him some credit--that's a pretty apt description of the situation.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Partisan glee aside, the US is now faced with quite a problem. If we fail and Qaddafi survives, the other dictators in the region - if not the rest of the world - will follow his approach.

Excellent point. For someone who is touted as intelligent, it sure seems like Obama walked into this with as much consideration as I demonstrate when deciding between ordering kung pao or General Tsao’s chicken. So while he insists we’re not actually targeting Q, he may as well because we picked sides and at this point we picked the losers. Here’s the kicker too: The left always touted that Saddam wasn’t a supporter of al qaeda. Well neither was Colonel Q but I betcha he becomes one should be survive this rebellion, which if we don’t actively go after him, he probably will.

enicar333 said...

Obama's spent 550 million on Libya and counting. Where are the union thugs? The US has approved the Libyan rebels selling oil to the West, now that the rebels set up a Western government friendly Central Bank. LOL. Obama is Wall Streets and a Banksters best friend.

enicar333 said...

"War is a Racket" - By Major General Smedley Butler:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

Quaestor said...

Victor Eminita wrote: Those [traits of Obama] were readily apparent to anyone paying attention before the election.

There's a perfectly good English word for this phenomenon which has sadly gone out of common usage, folly. Dispassionate observers of the human scene since Thucydides have been dumbstruck by the ability of otherwise intelligent and capable people to deceive themselves, and it is self deception that is at work here. Though we yell "Hey, Rube!" in jest and derision we should remember that the rubes and the carnies are the same people.

Chip Ahoy said...

So, are you guys looking to snag the job of updating Zinn, or what? Because that would be awesome if you are.

Mark said...

My guess is he'll latch onto Huckabee. His rebounds are getting farther and farther into the politically absurd, so Huckabee (even though he's a former fatty) fits the bill. (The Huck is also one of those "Government knows best" types that Sullivan seems drawn to.)

Another option would be Bloomberg, but since Sullivan probably knows Bloomberg personally, I wouldn't put much money on it.

WV: "bughee" -- damned word verification program is developing a sense of humor.

Charlie Martin said...

I'd call Sullivan a "sucker" but that's probably homophobic.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


"War is a Racket" - By Major General Smedley Butler:



Smedley Butler was an hypocritical idiot, too, I might add.

Jon said...

Freeman said: "Or is this an example of a place where colonialism, so out of fashion, wouldn't be such a bad deal for the inhabitants?"

Libya is actually the richest country in Africa per capita, and the richest Arab country with a population of more than 5 million. Per capita income is $13,000, compared to $6,000 in Egypt.

chickelit said...

reader_iam wrote:

Obama is like Bush, and Sullivan is still an asshole.

I'm predicting a new found fondness for Bush on Sullivan's part.

Well not on his part part but you know what I mean.

Bush III that is.

MikeR said...

Rand Paul:
"I was happy to see that Newt Gingrich has staked out a position on the war, a position, or two, or maybe three. I don’t know. I think he has more war positions than he’s had wives. [...]

There’s a big debate over there. Fox News can’t decide, what do they love more, bombing the Middle East or bashing the president? It’s like I was over there and there was an anchor going, they were pleading, can’t we do both? Can’t we bomb the Middle East and bash the president at the same time?"

And Andrew Sullivan is quoting him. Awesome.

Henry said...

I've written this before.

Obama didn't campaign against war. He didn't even campaign against dumb wars. He campaigned on getting out of the won war in Iraq in order to commit more war in Aghanistan.

And Afghanistan was, and is, an incredibly dumb war.

What Sullivan knows, for he certainly knows his own archives, is that Iraq was a smart war. It was a much bigger war than we initially conceived; it was argued, initiated, and fought on the basis of terrible intelligence; it was horribly mismanaged especially when Bush was trying to minimize casualties; yet the strategic justifications for it were profound.

Jon said...

Mark said: "My guess is he'll latch onto Huckabee."

No, he won't latch onto anyone unless they either openly support gay marriage, or he can convince himself that they secretly support it (as with Obama).

Lgbpop said...

I have no idea who this Sullivan is. He sounds like another Robert Shrum, always hitching his wagon to an anchor. Seeing as how I quit reading the propaganda papers, is it safe to guess he's one of them?

Lincolntf said...

"War is a Racket" - By Major General Smedley Butler:

Sorry, we'll try to keep it down.

bgates said...

Victor, I think "rube" fits here because the rubes who trusted him not to start a war considered him principled - and trustworthy.

Sixty Grit said...

Quote "in a place with no potential for civil society, wrecked by totalitarianism, riven by tribalism, in defense of rebels we do not know and who are clearly insufficient to the task?"

Sure, Wisconsin's bad, sure, but is it really that bad?

Rialby said...

Does this mean that Obama's not going to win Sully's 2012 erection..uhhh... I mean...election?

Rialby said...

Also - what happens to Sully when his immigration papers expire? Can we get his Limey Socialist ass back to the UK where he and the other "anarchists" belong?

J said...

Sullivan supported Bush in Iraq. He's not the voice of La Gauche.

He's the voice of the Log Cabin GOP--which is to say, AA regs.

Quaestor said...

Andrew Sullivan, like history, repeats first as farce, then as tragedy.

According to Marx history repeats itself, first as tragedy, than as farce... not the other way around. However, in Sullivan's case it's farce, and then more farce. The tragedy is everybody knows it except Sullivan.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Nice avatar J.

And here I thought I was the only fan of Zardoz.

;-/

Hoosier Daddy said...

According to Marx history repeats itself, first as tragedy, than as farce... not the other way around.

Which one said that Groucho or Chico?

But seriously folks...

Quaestor said...

Sullivan supported Bush in Iraq. He's not the voice of La Gauche.

True, up to a point. Sullivan rounded on the Iraq war specifically and Bush generally when the latter proved to be insufficiently pro-buttsex.

As for not being the voice of "La Gauche," that's also true. He's not the voice, he's just a prominent voice. Live it or live with it.

wv: calumets - smoke these, Kemosabe.

Quaestor said...

Which one said that Groucho or Chico?

Harpo. You had to listen closely to the hidden messages in his arpeggios.

Leo Ladenson said...

I will simply wait for more confirmation than this before commenting further.


Notice Queen Mary Jane Milky Loads's calm restraint when faced with Obama's minor folly.

Similar consideration to the much more important matter of Mrs. Palin's reproductive system? Umm, not so much.

J said...

Deeep thoughts from the Q man. .


The issue is some conservative-TP types think Sullivan's a, yikes, "leftist," when he's not. He's used as like an example of decadent liberalism or some BS, when he's a rightwing queer Tory. sort of Margaret Thatcher dressing as a man.

Like most TPsters you don't really know what you're fighting. Maybe instead of the usual MSM pundits link to Alex Cockburn or Zizek or Naomi Klein. Not that one always agrees. But that's yr real enemy, teabuggers.

Leo Ladenson said...

Like most TPsters you don't really know what you're fighting.


Yeah, we know, Her Majesty is sui generis and all. "Sui generis" isn't that French for "Greek love"?

The Crack Emcee said...

My answer for Andrew has been the same since I first heard of him.

I don't see it changing anytime soon.

dave in boca said...

Andy's man-crush on Barako finally looks like it hit an insurmountable hurdle. Now he's going to have to go hyperspace on his normal warp speed toward self-destruction.

Quaestor said...

J wrote: But that's yr real enemy, teabuggers.

Cockburn and company, the whole editorial staff of Mother Jones, their ilk at the Democratic Underground, and you, J, aren't enemies. They and you are figures of fun -- a troupe of sideshow freaks and itinerent clowns whose earnest antics are gigglesome to read and hear.

While it's true you may fancy yourself to be an enemy, there is a certain, shall we say, minimum level of probity required that you simply cannot achieve.

Quaestor said...

Andrew Sullivan said Is anyone as unsurprised as I am that he's a Leo?

Crack has reminded us that Sullivan himself drove the definitive nail into his own coffin years ago. May we move on now?

wv: lemican - a Native American food made of compressed rodents.

Comrade X said...

hmm. Andy sure was jonesing for war with Iraq when a white guy was president

Leo Ladenson said...

Andy sure was jonesing for war with Iraq when a white guy was president


Queen Mary Jane is no racist. He likes all colors of power glutes.

The issue with Boosh was that he was a hetero-centric and hetero-normative white guy.

Comrade X said...

hmm. Bill Maher thought bombing Serbia was funny and cool. Again, white guy was president. Odd that.

Comrade X said...

not saying he's racist Leo. just noticing what is. too bad if Andy and Bill get smeared by their own logic.

Leo Ladenson said...

Bill Maher thought bombing Serbia was funny and cool. Again, white guy was president. Odd that.


Again, the ugly dwarf is no racist. He's sampled whores of every race and color.

No, the issue there was that the Serbs are Orthodox Christians.

bagoh20 said...

Beware of false idols.

Comrade X said...

at least Hillary is consistent and non disparate. she wants to bomb everyone. grrrl power.

Scott M said...

at least Hillary is consistent and non disparate. she wants to bomb everyone. grrrl power.

Wasn't the upcoming "Suckerpunch" movie based on her life before Bubba?

Comrade X said...

and as soon as John Kerry flipflops he'll have a perfect record going back to Vietnam of being for and then against every war. get that man a hat.

Comrade X said...

Wasn't the upcoming "Suckerpunch" movie based on her life before Bubba?

Hillary's the most likely to nuke someone if she gets the chance. probably preemptively while Bill is there trying to conduct last minute negotiations. hell paid in full.

Phil 3:14 said...

Once we began to see our images
Reflected in the mud and even dust,
'Twas disillusion upon disillusion.
We were lost piecemeal to the animals,
Like people thrown out to delay the wolves.
Nothing but fallibility was left us.


Robert Frost

galdosiana said...

Here is a great video that deals precisely with this topic, comparing Obama's Libya to Bush's Iraq, and highlighting the inconsistencies and flat-out hypocrisies of the left:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yAyCdfOXvec

It's one of those computer-animated videos from Xtranormal.

wv: "booti"--most likely oil, in Libya

Phil 3:14 said...

The vain man does not wish so much to be prominent as to feel himself prominent; he therefore disdains none of the expedients for self-deception and self-outwitting. It is not the opinion of others that he sets his heart on, but his opinion of their opinion.

Nietzsche

wv: "misti" Certainly an apt description of Mr. Sullivan's eyes

RuyDiaz said...

Freeman Hunt: "I remember someone saying that McCain seemed erratic, and that that was a reason for voting Obama."

I remember that too, but that unnamed person was correct: Obama has been astonishlingly calm and collected while making the wrong decision every time. He has the right temperament. It is a gift.

RuyDiaz said...

Charlie Martin: "I'd call Sullivan a "sucker" but that's probably homophobic."

Okay, that made me chuckle. Does that make me a homophobe too?

(*Chuckling in delicious partisan glee*)

Revenant said...

After what happened to Sullivan when Bush lost him, I can't wait to see what he turns into this time.

I'm troubled by the possibility that he might end up back on my side again.

Leo Ladenson said...

Queen Sullivan: fickle as the wind, crazy as a loon.


(Apologies to Bill Ayers. On second thought, fuck Bill Ayers.)

Steven said...

But I do not see what the hints were that Obama would be a war, er, I mean a kinetic military action monger. Am I missing something?

Obama had no track record, so where was the evidence that he wouldn't be one?

If you buy a pig in a poke, you have no reasonable grounds to be surprised that when you got home you wind up letting a cat out of the bag. If you are surprised, you prove yourself a rube.

Synova said...

It's not about being Obama.

It's about being a Democrat.

And I'm sorry to have to say that, but it's true. (Not that being a Republican is proof against it since Bush the First operated the same way.) What it is about is the belief in military constraint.

Said that way it doesn't sound bad, right?

Belief in military constraint, in sanctions, in gestures of support that make a moral statement, and all coupled with a corresponding belief that *caring* matters most.

It would be a doctrine if someone actually thought about it enough to form one. The small war... now known as kinetic military involvement. Lets just do a little bit, because a little bit will be enough.

Look at who protested that Iraq wasn't supposed to take so long. Look at who voted to invade but ran out of resolve no more than a year and half later. The corollary to that is that Iraq only took so long because Bush and other neocon warmongers *wanted* it to.

So Obama can do a short war, a small war, just like Clinton could in Bosnia and Somalia, just like Bush the First could leave Iraq without resolving anything. Air support with no risks to American lives to turn domestic politics, and something good will happen because our motives are pure.

Synova said...

"But I do not see what the hints were that Obama would be a war, er, I mean a kinetic military action monger. Am I missing something?"

"Obama had no track record, so where was the evidence that he wouldn't be one?"

Obama tried to position himself as a military tough guy during the election in order to persuade the pro-Iraq-war middle, the people who would have run in the face of irresponsible peace-nik rhetoric, to vote for him.

He threatened to go into Pakistan... I mean, Pah-kistan. Beat his chest soundly over that.

Now if that was "evidence" or not is up for grabs. The anti-war left that made up his base for Hope and Change simply decided he was lying.

As if lying is a good thing.

Methadras said...

Wait, what was that? Oh, I just heard him zipper his pants up.

Freeman Hunt said...

We should work harder at exporting our values.

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman Hunt,

We should work harder at exporting our values.

You know I agree with you, but I think, first, we should work harder at defending them at home.

As long as we let NewAgers convince our own people our values have been redefined, we've no right to export anything culturally - and no one outside of our borders will respect us anyway.

As someone said recently (I think about watching Jersey Shore) "every time I see this, I think Osama may have a point."

reader_iam said...

We should work harder at exporting our values.

The problem with that admirable sentiment, Freeman, is that because so many jobs--both brawn and brain--have been exported overseas over the past couple-so of decades and there's so little business interest in First America values, there's almost no toe-hold to be had in the thin layer of sand left behind in the wake of all the exporting we've done.

We're weak, now, Freeman, and I'd argue most especially because of all the power of small-l labor we've exported, not to mention the huge amount of dollars that have followed.

On what foundation, exactly and precisely and practically, are you expecting us to launch great exports of example from?

reader_iam said...

Even if by some miracle it turns out to be possible to wrench this country from the grip of too large--and, far more important, too intrusive--government, that still will leave us with an even higher, harder mountain to climb.

reader_iam said...

If I had to bet, that horse has left the barn, never to be returned--

--and most likely it will turn out that it was the horse we should never have encouraged, much less enabled, to just trot away.

reader_iam said...

The horse that got away...

There oughta be a song, at least. Alas.

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