March 14, 2011

Do you really want to use rote chanting to train kids to protest against authority?

Hey, teachers!



Aren't you forgetting a thing or 2? You've got them chanting "Hey hey, ho ho, Scott Walker has got to go" — but what do they know about Scott Walker? That he's done something the teachers don't like. So, maybe some day, when you do something they don't like, some kid might start "Hey hey, ho ho, [TEACHER'S NAME] has got to go." Today, you're pleased to teach them "The children, united, will never be divided." I'm picturing them repurposing that chant back in the classroom.

What will you do if they learn the lesson you're teaching them, to denounce legitimate authority when it crosses your heartfelt interests?

Whose school? OUR SCHOOL! Whose school? OUR SCHOOL!

ADDED: This video was taken by Meade and me at the Wisconsin Capitol today around noon.

229 comments:

1 – 200 of 229   Newer›   Newest»
former law student said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUASiDg-kg4

Fen said...

Teachers exploiting their charges for political and personal gain. They should be ashamed. And they should be fired.

mesquito said...

If that was my kid I'd be in court the next morning.

m stone said...

Well said, Ann. This is scary stuff.

Coketown said...

We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Hey, teacher! Leave them kids alone.

Mary said...

Whoa. What school are they from? Do you suppose they got permission from the parents and then made a mental note of any parents that refused permission?

Mary 2

Trooper York said...

That's why all teachers should be fired and replaced by robots.

Lincolntf said...

So now that it's captured on video we can add indoctrinating children to the long list of things that did NOT happen in Madison, right?

Pogo said...

Children haven't been taught the basics of civics in a generation. Only that portion dedicated to making factions remains.

So the worst and most selfish features of democracy are now the sole focus of education.

The adults will be useless, needy, demanding, and dependent subjects. Not citizens, but subjects needing to be ruled and led.

former law student said...

Whoa. What school are they from?

An excellent question. For all we know they come from the Red Diaper Day Nursery. Or perhaps they are teachers' own children. Or young interns from The Progressive.

vw: supmoo -- how one cow greets another.

PaulV said...

fls, denial is just not a river in Egypt. Have you not yet received your talking points?

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

Today is a school holiday, so this isn't a school field trip. I don't know who brought that particular group of kids in or why.

mesquito said...

Oh right. we're supposed to respect teachers. Remember?

Christopher said...

Don't know whether they're the protesters' students or the protesters' children.

Don't care.

Children should not be at protests, regardless of ideology or cause.

Besides safety issues it just reeks of manipulation.

MadisonMan said...

4th graders look smaller and smaller every year.

kimsch said...

Our kids will be let out of school early next Monday because the teacher's union is calling a meeting and the teachers will be paid by the district while they are not teaching my children and are at a meeting that could be held at another time. Apparently the union is "allowed" to do this twice in any school year, call a meeting with little notice.

A friend has to take time off work to be home for her kids that day. That week is already short for kids anyway as there is no school on Thursday, 3/24 for conferences and no school Friday for a teacher institute day and then all the following week for spring break.

vw: carantre

MadisonMan said...

Today is a school holiday

Really? My high schoolers were in school today.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PETER V. BELLA said...

They will be good little apparatchiks and grow into great heroes of Socialism. Do they have youth camps in Wisconsin?

Fen said...

Well if its their kids, thats fine.
But its not unreasonable to assume otherwise - the Teacher Unions have a history of dragging their students to their own protests.

That should stop. I understand the need for "civics" field trips, but they should not involve anything thats a conflict of interest, like Teacher pay and collective bargaining.

Lincolntf said...

Anyone want to do me a favor and try to click on the "new comments thingy" at AceofSpadesHQ.com? It's been giving me an error (#500, I think) for 10 minutes now. Same on all the threads.
Thankas in adavance.

Julius said...

WTF? These kids have no choice. They are forced to partake in this most putrid episode. This is psychological child abuse. Maybe not the prosecutable kind, but it is abusive nonetheless. Children are not tools to be used for your political project.

Absolutely. Completely. Repulsive.

And I think that Americans are desensitized to shit like this. Those from the other parts of the world, where they generally care about children more than we do here, would likely find this disgusting and representative of a sick, disturbed society.

Chris B said...

Right now I'm about 3/4 done with school as a history major and have been taking the classes to get certified to teach HS social studies. However, I see myself in the future getting furious with fellow lib teachers, or being blacklisted because I don't participate in bs like this. This and the constant self-pity and glorification make me not want to teach sometimes.

http://baseballpoliticsandfreedom.blogspot.com

Mike K said...

I have never been so sure that I did the right thing in sending my kids to private school. There are five of them so I could have done something else with the money but this set of videos, especially this one, tell me I did the right thing.

I wish I could afford to send my younger son's kids to private school. Maybe all this will be enough to finally get a majority for vouchers everywhere,

Fen said...

@ Lincoln - no, I'm getting the same error at Ace's.

Carol_Herman said...

Wow. Did you know when people were chanting back in 1967 ... the USA had a draft? Men reached 18. And, got Draft notices. And, had to show up at their draft boards.

56,000 American kids died in Vietnam.

Until the politicians caught on. (Military types and politicians, back in those days, were "slow learners.")

Came the democrat's convention ... in Chicago. In 1968. And, the strets erupted!

I don't think Governor Walker has to worry.

I think, if nothing else, these chanting teachers has given this blog some gist.

Ho Che min "won." So you could ask someone in Vietnam today if that "win" makes them feel lucky.

Amartel said...

Unthinking authoritarianism like this automatically inspires rebellion at some point. All these cool moms and fun dads are in for a big surprise . . . they don't seem to know, they are the status quo.

mesquito said...

Right now I'm about 3/4 done with school as a history major and have been taking the classes to get certified to teach HS social studies. However, I see myself in the future getting furious with fellow lib teachers, or being blacklisted because I don't participate in bs like this. This and the constant self-pity and glorification make me not want to teach sometimes.

I was once a high school social studies teacher (degrees in gov and history.) The places I worked were totally apolitical. (Returning to ed school to be certified was pretty dreadful, however.) This stuff didn't come up. What you are seeing in Wisconsin is manufactured, for the most part. You can tell by the peculiar lefty kitsch.

So go for it.

doris said...

I wanted to check it out Saturday. To see the spectacle for myself. Also to see family I don't see too much who were coming in (in busses and vans!) from Eau Claire and Oshkosh. I didn't go, for only one reason: I didn't want to bring my kids. This was not a place for kids. What would I say to them about what was going on? (Because really, what was the purpose of these protests - the deed was done). I imagined my daughter asking, "Mom, why is Uncle Bubba pumping his fist in the air and shouting? Is this a Badger game?"

I think would have been interesting to go on a political/historical field trip. But what a weird (and maybe scary) drag it would be for them.

Carol_Herman said...

Gee. My kid went to the local public school. And, the other day, a neighbor's child came by to play with my dogs. She's in 2nd grade.

She told me that her mom was one of the mom's who helped make the food. And, her class gave her teacher a birthday party!

100% parent participation at the local public school. Still a great place. Budget strapping, and all.

Now, whatever these teachers are doing, it sure isn't helping their cuase.

And, you sure can't bring the 60's back, either.

Oh, yeah. The guy carrying that sign about "missing Nixon." Now, I get it. Bet cha his grandpa didn't vote for Nixon

edutcher said...

Carol's point about the draft is worse than irrelevant. How many hundreds of thousands of Indo-Chinese people died because we left? How many Americans died because the enemy was at home as much as it was over there and encouraging the enemy there to hold on?

However, it's illustrative to remember those demonstrations were orchestrated by the KGB through the useful idiots in this country.

The Lefty Boomers (and most of us weren't it should be remembered) can't get over how cool they were back then. They remain a broken record.

Lincolntf said...

Thanks Fen, appreciate it.

garage mahal said...

Absolutely. Completely. Repulsive.

But slashing wages and benefits from eduicators, and gutting our education budget here in WI by 1 billion dollars while increasing road paving by 5 billion is ....? Some people have some really fucked up priorities. Shouldn't be surprised though - we have elected congresspeople saying we should fire on immigrants from helicopters like feral pigs, or shipping "defective" people to Siberia. The Tea Party rule is the awesome.

Lucius said...

This is both upsetting enough to anger, and kitschy enough to make me sniggle, then yawn.

If these children aren't there with their parents express permission and understanding, then they-- and the public-- should be deeply offended.

But it's offensive at some level, regardless. I suppose children are always going to be employed singing and putting on shows that are revoltingly annoying at some level (I had to sing "If I Had a Hammer" for a PTA program in 7th grade-- Jesus, was I Peter Yarrow?). Teachers seem naturally drawn to kitsch and idiocy-- could be something to do with that "bottom third" Kaus is quoting Kristof on today.

But again: what do these adults even think their point is? The rotunda looks mostly deserted. Do they think this is cute? Who are they even trying to be 'cute' for? *Althouse readers*?!? If they only knew . . .

former law student said...

Today is a school holiday

Not to celebrate National Pi Day, I hope. (3/14) Of course I'm asleep at the height of the fun (1:59.2654...)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Hey Hey!!

Hey Ho!!

Insert Name

Has got to go!!!

former law student said...

It's also a lot of fun to chant
1. in a public place normally solemnly quiet, and
2. where your voice really reverberates.

You can be a transgressor with your parents' permission.

Amartel said...

Wait'll find out who hogged up all the borrowed money . . . that they're going to have to pay off.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@mesquito

"You can tell by the peculiar lefty kitsch."

Yes a certain whiff of shameless cultism in the name of 'public service'...do they get the irony of that?

MadisonMan said...

4th graders look smaller and smaller every year.

Let me explain this comment. Fourth Grade in Wisconsin is the year kids learn about the Capitol. Many will come visit Madison on field trips, taking in the Capitol, the Geology Museum on Campus, Babcock Hall, etc. etc. (Probably not the Law Library, however).

As a recent historical event, I think it's natural for the teachers to address what's been going on. My kid's 4th grade teacher had the students reading the Newspaper every morning to discuss what they read in class. Doing the chanting seems -- I guess I agree with Lucius: kitschy.

When my kids took the Field Trip, we were given a pretty complete itinerary, and it didn't vary much from that as I recall for my daughter -- who would tell us everything that happened in school. Maybe it did with my son. They could have gone to Chicago instead of the Capitol, and he wouldn't think to mention it. Oblivious.

rhhardin said...

That's a 4/4-time chant.

A decent chant is in 9/8-time

This is the forest primeval,
Where traces of humans are few:
An occasional path by the lakeshore
Where hikers have taken the view.
A fireplace built out of boulders,
And firewood piled in a stack,
A courteous gesture by campers,
Expecting some day to come back.
Sometimes alongside the shoreline
Outlaw canoes can be found.
The portage to here is a long one,
Fully two miles from the town.
Rather than carry them homeward
They leave them all chained to the trees,
And come back with only their paddles
To launch them whenever they please.

Ann Althouse said...

"But slashing wages and benefits from eduicators, and gutting our education budget here in WI by 1 billion dollars while increasing road paving by 5 billion is ....? Some people have some really fucked up priorities."

My fucked up priority is putting the humanity of children first.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Brock Whosayn' Eaubalma

Mmmm, mmmm, mmml.

DADvocate said...

Most teachers don't have the intellectual capacity to teach them anything more sophisticated.

madAsHell said...

Those that are easily brain-washed, and those that aren't.

I'll bet Captain Kirk could show the fallacy of their convictions, and have smoke blowing out their ears with his 3733t linguistic ju-jitsu.

'...and, WHAT. is. the. PRIME. directive?"

(Should over-acting be in caps, or bold??)

Trooper York said...

The little bastards have it too easy anyway. Bring back workhouses and let them make sneakers for Nike or something. These yuppie puppies are way too soft if you ask me.

rhhardin said...

Laudate nomen domini children's choir.

Julius said...

When I was in 9th or 10th grade, George W. Bush came to my school and gave a speech in support of his dad's 1988 campaign for President. My parents were associated with the school and were able to meet him. The school wasn't supposed to allow political presentations, but they ignored that rule in light of the fact that very few interesting things ever happened in our town. Incidentally, I think these were the days when W was big into substance abuse.

I convinced a fellow student of mine to stage a protest. We made up "Vote for Dukakis" signs on poster board and booed while the other clapped. Otherwise, we didn't heckle the future President. Even though we wanted to protest, we wanted to do it politely without causing trouble.

Nobody told us to do it. Nobody stopped us from doing it. In fact, I don't think anyone really noticed. We were definitely the only students protesting, though.

I am proud of myself for having protested W at least ten solid years before pretty much anyone else did. I could see the demonic neoconservative evil in his weasel-y eyes even then,

Synova said...

Someone said the kids are on spring break.

Reminded me...

Are they?

After all, they have to make up those four days they missed school earlier.

It makes a lot of difference if the kids are there with a school event or not.

Trooper York said...

Julius said....
I am proud of myself for having protested W at least ten solid years before pretty much anyone else did. I could see the demonic neoconservative evil in his weasel-y eyes even then"

Glad to hear that buddy and we be sure to remember that the next time you tell us that you vote Republican and are a proud moderate. Hee.

Trooper York said...

My granddaughter is on spring break and we are going to see Mary Poppins tomorrow night.

Trooper York said...

Mary Poppins wouldn't have stood for this shit.

Synova said...

"I am proud of myself for having protested W at least ten solid years before pretty much anyone else did. I could see the demonic neoconservative evil in his weasel-y eyes even then,"

LOL!

Fun story, Julius. I'd never have been brave enough to do it.

Trooper York said...

Of course now the nanny would be Jamaican or from Trinidad or something.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Revenant said...

But slashing wages and benefits from eduicators, and gutting our education budget here in WI by 1 billion dollars

I guess maybe the local school districts shouldn't have rushed through those lucrative new teachers' contracts. Oopsie daisy!

Hank Rearden_WI said...

Hear me now. Believe me later.

Get your kids out of the public schools.

Home schooling does not demand a belief in Christianity. Just a willingness to work hard, and an expectation of the same from your child/ren

shoutingthomas said...

Shouldn't be surprised though - we have elected congresspeople saying we should fire on immigrants from helicopters like feral pigs, or shipping "defective" people to Siberia.

Jesus, garbage, you'll write just about any kind of shit, won't you?

rhhardin said...

No more laptops
No more books
No more teachers' dirty looks

Trooper York said...

"or shipping "defective" people to Siberia."

Well at least they have a chance. Barry and his ilk would abort them or euthanize them right off the bat.

At least in Siberia they might live through it and write a book or something like that angry Russki did.

Synova said...

Oh, CRAP! It's Pie Day!

I forgot to make Pie!

m stone said...

Our liberal commenters can't seem to stay on the topic or address the question at hand.

It is always deflection. Sorta like a chant?

Coketown said...

See, I don't think the kids understand that this is open defiance of authority. They don't know what they're chanting. For all they know, Scott Walker has to go potty. That's the beauty of kids: They possess minds slightly softer than the people using them as cheap political props, so they can be calibrated and re-calibrated ad infinitum from kindergarten up till I'd say fourth grade. Then they start getting snotty.

But what do you expect from a country that elects congresspeople to systematically curb-stomp old people and gas minorities by the millions.

Big Mike said...

The teachers know that no matter how egregious their behavior is, they won't be called on it. Because even if you get the teachers who organized this charade fired, the next ones will just take it out on your kids.

And they know that you know that, and that you won't put your kids at risk. All you can do is wait until your kids are out of school and retaliate at the ballot box. I see a large number of Wisconsites did just that.

TMink said...

I am not sure that these folks recognize legitimate authority.

Trey

TMink said...

Actually, it is pi day.

Trey

Maguro said...

But they're not really protesting against authority, are they? They're just obeying their teacher, who is the real authority figure in their eyes, not Scott Walker. Complying with a teacher's direction to denounce someone they don't know seems more likely to breed further compliance rather than rebellion.

Not that that's a good thing.

Synova said...

Yes, Pi Day.

And on Pi Day you make PIE!

Yes?

I think I have left over smoked brisket I can make into a meat pie... except I don't have potatoes.

Drat.

Shanna said...

Oh, CRAP! It's Pie Day!

I forgot to make Pie!


I gave up pie for lent. Probably pi as well...

Probably these same chanters would be horrified at the idea of kids chanting the multiplication tables, bless their hearts.

mrp said...

Bill Ayers is a retired education prof who taught at UoI - Champaign.

This form of agitprop is right out of his course material. For a little stroll on things Ayers and his views on education, Ed Lasky of the American Thinker has a must-read 2008 article.

http://tinyurl.com/6h8575

BTW, Christopher Kennedy, a son of Robert F. Kennedy and also the Board Chair of the UI Trustees, denied Ayers emeritus status, most likely because Bill dedicated his book Prairie Fire to RFK's assassin, Sirhan Sirhan.

Coketown said...

@Shanna: If you gave up pie for lent, does that mean you make i? Silly math humor.

Writ Small said...

Small, impressionable people who lack maturity to fully grasp the situation unquestioningly accepting the direction of those guiding them and mindlessly chanting simple slogans.

But enough about the protesters, those kids are cute!

James said...

Today is a school holiday, so this isn't a school field trip. I don't know who brought that particular group of kids in or why.

Not in Racine, my 5th grader had school today. Her 5th grade graduation trip to the Capitol is coming up soon and if her teachers attempt a stunt like that there will be hell to pay. Perhaps I should sign up as a volunteer for the trip.

B said...

garage mahal said.

But slashing wages and benefits from eduicators....we have elected congresspeople saying we should fire on immigrants from helicopters like feral pigs, or shipping "defective" people to Siberia. The Tea Party rule is the awesome.

You are a fabulist. I will say, however, that I've only been quietly lurking and reading this blog's excellent coverage of the democrats' petulance in Madison for a couple of weeks. It could be that the events there just recently pushed you, fls, lucid, lawyapalooza and a few others over some boundary between sensible commentary and yapping foolishness.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Coketown

"But what do you expect from a country that elects congresspeople to systematically curb-stomp old people and gas minorities by the millions."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFJtpxc0iRM

foxtrot said...

Training the future sheep (protesters) and chickens ("Fab 14") of tomorrow. Great role models, indeed.

Indoctrinating is one of Madison's specialties. My colleague TAs seem to think that the classroom should be a pulpit for preaching bullsh*t ideology, even when it's not relevant to the topic.

Since when has any teacher went to the capitol to protest for better classrooms, books, etc..? Solidarity and students only matter when pay and benefits are involved. The unions' actions have spoken a lot louder than their words.

mrp said...

Aack. Ayers was a tenured professor at the University of Illinois - Chicago.

DADvocate said...

For all we know they come from the Red Diaper Day Nursery

That should be the Red Diaper Doper Baby Nursery.

Peano said...

Do you really want to use rote chanting to train kids to protest against authority?

Of course. Don't mistake this for a rational debate. The teachers unions will chant to gain whatever authority they crave, and they will chant to defeat any authority that opposes them. This is all about desire. Raw, unexamined desire. Their desire, that is the only reality.

Sixty Grit said...

Garage went to school in Wisconsin - he wrote "eduicators". Heh...

Lamar63 said...

Here is the childhood song against authority. I wonder if it now taught in school?


On top of ol' smokey
All covered with blood
I shot my poor teacher
With a .45 slug

I shot her with pride
I shot her with fear
I couldn't miss her
Because she's forty feet wide

I went to her funeral
I danced on her grave
Some threw flowers
I threw a grenade

Her body went up
He body went down
Her body went splat
All over town

former law student said...

Did someone already say this? Elementary kids were sent home early as teachers stayed for training. From the Madison school calendar:

District-wide K-5 Staff Development - Elementary Early Release @ 10:45 or 11:30 AM.

MadisonMan said...

District-wide K-5 Staff Development - Elementary Early Release @ 10:45 or 11:30 AM.

I'm so glad I don't need to know that anymore -- high schoolers are a lot easier to deal with on half-days.

And now we learn that the days will be 15 minutes longer, and they've ditched early release! Oh yeah!

garage mahal said...

I guess maybe the local school districts shouldn't have rushed through those lucrative new teachers' contracts. Oopsie daisy!?

If you think a teacher's wage in Wisconsin is "lucrative", well, I would set my bar a bit higher than that. I would never go to college for four years and incur that debt, and choose to be a teacher for the shit wages they earn. Not a good ROI, as they say

DADvocate said...

The Lefty Boomers (and most of us weren't it should be remembered) can't get over how cool they were back then.

Actually, we can. At least some of us can. It was a near perfect storm of an arrogant president who had little understanding or insight of human psychology, a war being fought entirely the wrong way and costing too many lives, and a bunch of spoiled baby boomers.

But, I got over it. I can't believe how stupid we were. Even if you were against the war (I was and still am), there was no reason to buy into all the other lefty bullshit.

vnjagvet said...

I must say that indoctrination was well organized. Complete with t shirts, signs and chant directors. It is hard for me to believe a group of parents just showed up at the capitol with all that paraphernalia .

Maybe some of the Elementary staff called in sick to honcho this.

Anne said...

I homeschool. Thank goodness.

DADvocate said...

Wait'll find out who hogged up all the borrowed money . . . that they're going to have to pay off.

Amen. I've explained this to my kids, 14, 17 and 22 just so they'll know that I'm fighting for them. I'm totally disgusted that we have become so selfish and morally corrupt that we want to call it a moral imperative to leave such a burden on our children.

hombre said...

It was a near perfect storm of an arrogant president who had little understanding or insight of human psychology, a war being fought entirely the wrong way and costing too many lives... .

Which Pres would that have been DAD?

DADvocate said...

Actually, it is pi day.

Yeah. I've been running in circles all day. But, I know exactly how far that is.

James said...

The average teacher salary in MILWAUKEE is $101,091. Not a bad take for a 9 months a year gig. And many teachers have second jobs; my daughters 2nd grade teacher runs a Taco Bell after school.


http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/04/maciver-institute/maciver-institute-says-average-annual-salary-and-b/

"The posting quoted MPS’ budget manager as saying that in 2011-2012 (the fiscal year that begins July 1, 2011), the average MPS teacher would receive total compensation of $101,091 -- $59,500 in salary and $41,591 in benefits.

We double-checked with MPS spokeswoman Roseann St. Aubin and she confirmed the figures"

DADvocate said...

Which Pres would that have been DAD?

Nixon

JAL said...

Exploitation?

Did the parents give informed consent?

What's the matter with the parents?

All the left has left is mindless chants.

Their lack of self awareness is disturbing.

Their shallowness is startling.

Lem said...

Common Althouse, don't gimme that logic stuff.. what are you a professor?

DADvocate said...

I'm not too worried about the kids' indoctrination. Most school teachers are horribly inept at indoctrinating kids except for nuns. The nuns I had in grade school to this day have a greater impact on my philosophy of life than any other teachers.

I think I only had three nuns as teacher in the 7 years I went to parochial school. They convinced me not with fire and brimstone stuff but reasoned lessons. It's that "reasoned" part that most teachers have trouble with.

hombre said...

Which Pres would that have been DAD?

Nixon


Yeah. Shame on him for getting us into that mess! LOL

Lem said...

Althouse might as well be teaching Latin.

garage mahal said...

The average teacher salary in MILWAUKEE is $101,091

According to your same source:

"Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker says Wisconsin is broke"

We rate Walker’s statement False.

That's great news. You've discovered a great revenue stream for you and your family, and we won't become broke because of it!

DADvocate said...

Shame on him for getting us into that mess!

He didn't get us into the mess, but we don't need a history lesson on the Vietnam War right now. Not sure what point you're trying to make, but Nixon was one of the biggest assholes to ever reside in the White House.

AST said...

I agree with Fen. Anybody who thinks that our political system can be simplified into an inane chant is too dumb to be teaching children.

That kind of thinking is what I hate most about unions. They dumb down their members and are about as democratic as the U.S.S.R.

enicar333 said...

This is honestly beginning to scare me. There is no civil discourse. There is no agreement on fact. Everything is in dispute. America started as a Republic. A Democracy after the Civil War, and is now embracing Fascism directed by a powerful Oligarchy. The schools have taken on more and more parental responsibilities and now the Children are estranged from their parents. Unwittingly, the Teachers are shaping the Children into the Janissaries who will be used to enforce the emerging Plutocracy. The endgame will be a priviledged few served by a slave class which will be ruthlessly controlled.

lucid said...

Ann writes:
"What will you do if they learn the lesson you're teaching them, to denounce legitimate authority when it crosses your heartfelt interests?"

But what is wrong with denouncing legitimate authority when it crosses your heartfelt interests?

Isn't that what the founding fathers did?

madAsHell said...

Does it really take a K-12 school to teach someone to read, write, and do a little math (add, subtract, multiply....and maybe divide) ??

Most people learn by doing....although I did manage to learn about sexual intercourse by audio/visual presentations in elementary school ....but I don't think that counts. Cuz....I think that is written in the jeans...er, genes.

Yeah....I never had "THE TALK" with my Dad. He was kind of libertarian that way. If you can't figure it out, then you don't need to know.

Methadras said...

This should earn them their last paycheck whoever the fuck they are. This is how the DNC allows for these public parasites to multiply by having their students become their tools to grow up and become even bigger tools to train the new up and coming leftard tools. Stop this now.

Methadras said...

lucid said...
But what is wrong with denouncing legitimate authority when it crosses your heartfelt interests?

Isn't that what the founding fathers did?


It's a distinction of using children in this way vs. already having adults be the ones to denounce said legitimate authority. Big difference.

DADvocate said...

Yeah, garage, this sounds real good.

Wisconsin’s rating was 37th as measured by the amount of debt per capita, 38th (debt by GDP) 39 (by personal income) and 41 (by revenue).


Real comforting to Wisconsinites.

JohnJ said...

So much of this appears completely tone deaf to me: Jesse Jackson, Michael Moore, a YouTube tour of the occupied Capitol by a giddy coed, Peter Yarrow, “This is what democracy looks like,” ...and now, slogan-chanting kids.

I'm not a political consultant, but aren't the Republican attack ads practically writing themselves?

David said...

Not broke? Depends on the definition, eh?

But if you invariably spend more than you take in and borrow to fund the difference, brokeness is gonna find you. (Or perhaps your children, which doesn't seem to count with quite a few people.)

Methadras said...

Julius said...

I am proud of myself for having protested W at least ten solid years before pretty much anyone else did. I could see the demonic neoconservative evil in his weasel-y eyes even then,


Right, because you've shown yourself as being a complete ass even back then. Bravo, crusader of teh justice. Put your little skinny fist in the air and break your arm to pat yourself on the back for the totally forgettable awesome you have wrought. Ass.

Methadras said...

garage mahal said...

Absolutely. Completely. Repulsive.

But slashing wages and benefits from eduicators, and gutting our education budget here in WI by 1 billion dollars while increasing road paving by 5 billion is ....? Some people have some really fucked up priorities. Shouldn't be surprised though - we have elected congresspeople saying we should fire on immigrants from helicopters like feral pigs, or shipping "defective" people to Siberia. The Tea Party rule is the awesome.


Slashing $1 billion from a system that is largely a fail to dump $5 billion in road paving only says that your teachers unions are worse at the lobbying than your dept. of public works. Oh, hey, I don't see you volunteering to be the raw material to fill up potholes, you fucking slacker. And by slacker I mean, a completely useless simp, who basically supports if not totally leeches off of his private paying citizenry to fund his douchebaggery as witness by his other douchebag brethren at the madison statehouse.

Patrick said...

Um, Ann.....

Look:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RwdH5DTKRas/Sb4rkj1tTQI/AAAAAAAABfU/kEEGseHh6oM/s400/cincinatti+protest+kids.jpg

But, oh, that's fine; because it's teaparty, right?

WRONG. Children should be NEVER, EVER used as political props!

bagoh20 said...

I can't imagine the teachers that taught me doing this. First they respected parents too much (and not because they earned it), second - because they respected the trust given them, third - they were competent grown ups who deserved their pay, knew it, and didn't need to coerce it from others. My teachers would be ashamed of this.

Palladian said...

Any comment that begins with "Um..." should be skipped over on principle.

"Um..." a useful little time-saving tag that translates to: "I'm about to be an asshole!"

David53 said...

Politifact is cool. I like the Obama meter. 49 promises broken, 134 promises kept and 220 "in the works."

Closing Gitmo is my favorite lie.

I am a little jealous though, I wish all those union boys would come and protest in Austin, that would be cool.

JohnJ said...

So much of this appears completely tone deaf to me: Jesse Jackson, Michael Moore, a YouTube tour of the occupied Capitol by a giddy coed, Peter Yarrow, “This is what democracy looks like,” ...and now, slogan-chanting kids.

I'm not a political consultant, but aren't the Republican attack ads practically writing themselves?

Freeman Hunt said...

Why are they still there? What are they doing? I thought it was over.

bagoh20 said...

"Isn't that what the founding fathers did?"

No.

The Declaration of Independence explains why the authority was not legitimate. If the teachers can make half as good a case then OK, but their argument is the antithesis of Jefferson's.

DADvocate said...

But, oh, that's fine; because it's teaparty, right?

WRONG. Children should be NEVER, EVER used as political props!


Here's some more cute kids in Cincinnati. But, remember, it was their parents that brought them, not teachers.

I brought my 16 year old son. Not as a prop, but as protection. Nobody in their right mind would mess with him, a 275 lb (at the time, bigger now) 6' 3" football player.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68243358@N00/3357698423/

Revenant said...

We rate Walker’s statement False.

PolitiFact has definitely jumped the shark.

bagoh20 said...

Has Politifact rated the statement: "This is what democracy looks like."?

Palladian said...

"Why are they still there? What are they doing? I thought it was over."

The fight against FASCISM is never over, Freeman.

DirecTV Sucks said...

the littlest moonbats

Sloanasaurus said...

Unbelievable. It's like watching something from North Korea.

I mean, I have kids, and I great pains to try and be somewhat neutral on politics - maybe I am making a huge mistake in doing that, seeing what we are up against. Anyway, I would be outraged as a parent....of course its possible these were the kids of anti-walker parents, but still....

This is outstanding blogging. Its 60 minutes type stuff....maybe even in the same league as the forged Bush National Guard letters.

Keep it up.

Real American said...

and those children are going to have to work harder, pay more taxes and have a much lower standard of living to PAY FOR YOUR DAMN RETIREMENT BENEFITS! Did you tell them that you teachers? Did you?!?! Greedy-ass fucks!

Anna said...

"When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already... What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community." - Adolf Hitler

"Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world." — Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

“Education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” - Joseph Stalin, 1934

Carol_Herman said...

All these young kids taken to see a building. How much interest do they have in that?

No kids having time to read Tom Sawyer. Or any other book. And, no kid able to climb a tree. Or even the railing! Let alone take a ball out of a pocket, and play stoop ball.

You can "hi hi, ho ho," all day long and not change a single fact:

Kids need to play.

And, if they want to read. They need to be able to do so.

These children are "housed" because their parents work! And, they're taken care of by idiots.

vdavisson said...

Trooper, I think schools should all be disbanded after grade 4 or 5 and all learning should be done at home via computer. We'd save literally billions of dollars and thousands of discipline problems, to say nothing of stopping the brainwashing that happens in these institutions of "learning."

Synova said...

Um... notice that Patrick doesn't SAY what Patrick's opinion on the matter is.

Is it Okay or not, Patrick? What do YOU think?

Do you approve of bringing children to political events, demonstrations or protests or do you object? Do you approve under some circumstances and object in others?

DavidKramer said...

"WI by 1 billion dollars while increasing road paving by 5 billion is ....?"

Yeah, maybe if Doyle did not STEAL the $2 Billion for the roads Walker would not have to make it up this way.

It is always funny to steal from one thing to to another.

Tell me, does anyone know what the value of all those Social Security IOUs are worth? Absolutely zero!

It is always the same thing with the leftists, we are going to pass this tax like SS and it will go into a lock box. This gas tax will go for roads. This tobacco tax will go for healthcare........etc etc etc.

Why not just come out and say it lefties, you will raise taxes and spend twice as much as you raise and place me, my children and everyone in perpetual enslavement to a governmental debt. Way to go!

Eau Claire resident here and the lie that the majority is backing the GOVERNMENT workers is a lie.

ironrailsironweights said...

Question and answer time:

Q. What's the difference between an epileptic corn farmer and a hooker with diarrhea?
A. The farmer shucks between fits ...

Q. How do you circumscize a hillbilly?
A. Kick his sister in the jaw.

Q. Why do women rub their eyes when they wake up?
A. They don't have balls to scratch.

Q. What did one lesbian vampire say to the other lesbian vampire?
A. See you next month.

Q. Why should you never drink diet soda after going down on a woman?
A. You'd have two aftertastes to get out of your mouth.

Peter

Methadras said...

Carol_Herman said...

These children are "housed" because their parents work!


Because those parents have to pay taxes every 6 months on their homes and their incomes, which are involuntary and if they do not pay, do risk, and most likely will have their assets seized and go to jail for not doing so. It is the ever increasing level of taxation with the ever increasing reduction in representation that has created this uneven balance in those that pay vs. those that leech.

And yet we are told that our children are in safe places (for the most part) and free from such indoctrination as a function of what we pay in said taxes to have little to no say so in how our children are entrapped and inculcated by the very people who hold ideas anathema to civilized, primarily capitalistic constitutional representative republic. All of which is the dwindling notion of the idea that we are still constitutional, representative, and operate in a republic when 'this is what democracy looks like' is a screed bandied about.

This country is going from those that produce to those that do not, with the suckers trying to do the right thing out of sheer guilt for not wanting to look like they are gaming the system for fear of being called a parasite. All the while people are allowed to behave badly, spend money they don't have and when that runs out are allowed to literally in most cases write it all off to start anew with little to no consequence outside of the mandatory strike on their permanent credit records.

Then what we have, as a tax paying citizen base, are left to watch the giant circus in Madison by public employee parasites who complain that they are being put upon by the citizens of Wisconsin to take away something they never really had outside of the goodness of their stooges and cronies in democrat strongholds that are more than happy and willing to spend other peoples money on whatever the public employee parasites want, with no representation for the very people who are going to foot the bill for it all. And then to see it turn into a wealth redistribution money laundering scam by which people with opposing political views have zero choice in the say so for how that money is dispositioned on their alleged behalf by that public employee parasite representatives who gladly take that tax payer funded wealth and spend it on their DNC horse of choice.

Run on sentence, I know.


And, they're taken care of by idiots.

Who tend to be protected as being the lowest common denominator which is clearly how public employee parasite organizations work.

William said...

There is often a great gulf between what teachers teach and what children learn. The collective bargaining rights of teachers is more apt to inspire boredom and/or cynicism than revolutionary fervor in the breat of the average ten year old. Such tactics are so self serving as to be self defeating, but the self absorbed are too engrossed in their own reflections to fairly view the optics of this stunt.

Methadras said...

vdavisson said...

Trooper, I think schools should all be disbanded after grade 4 or 5 and all learning should be done at home via computer. We'd save literally billions of dollars and thousands of discipline problems, to say nothing of stopping the brainwashing that happens in these institutions of "learning."


except this country has created the problem of a welfare state by which a large segment of the population would be clearly incapable, unwilling, or both doing any sort of teaching whatsoever.

Julius said...

Methadras said to me...

Right, because you've shown yourself as being a complete ass even back then. Bravo, crusader of teh justice. Put your little skinny fist in the air and break your arm to pat yourself on the back for the totally forgettable awesome you have wrought. Ass.

Just for that, Methadras, I will think good thoughts for you and send you cosmic wishes for your well-being... as I eat this Dorito. Lick, lick (I like to lick the cheese off first), crunch, crunch, crunch, yummy! Do you feel any better now?

Naked Lunch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chip Ahoy said...

Um. <---



Ha ha ha.

Another similar useful timesaving tag that says, "I'm about to be an asshole" is the phrase "in all due respect." You are guaranteed the following sentence is disrespectful.

former law student said...

This country is going from those that produce to those that do not,

Fight Wall Street with all your might.

And then to see it turn into a wealth redistribution money laundering scam by which people with opposing political views have zero choice in the say so for how that money is dispositioned on their alleged behalf by that public employee parasite representatives

Throw out all the incumbent school board members.

Heck, run for the school board yourself

former law student said...

all due respect." You are guaranteed the following sentence is disrespectful.

C'mon. You know the speaker is thinking, "Although you're so full of shit the toilet's jealous, still I have to disagree politely."

Revenant said...

Fight Wall Street with all your might.

What, and deprive Democrats of their *other* major source of funding? That'd just be mean.

garage mahal said...

My fucked up priority is putting the humanity of children first.

Oh, I give them a little more credit than that. It's actually a good civics lesson. After all, the Tea Party rallies were full of good family members too, right?

Less walker, and more Tony Schultz!

Must listen for FLS btw. especially the end. Yes, the speech last Saturday.

Matt Brown said...

It takes a village to turn children into political puppets.

Revenant said...

After all, the Tea Party rallies were full of good family members too, right?

According to the Wisconsin protesters? Nope. We're a bunch of evil racist Nazis, according to the Wisconsin union folks.

more Tony Schultz!

Now there's a shocker -- a guy who lives off government subsidies is in favor of government handouts.

Hey, Tony -- some of us actually produce wealth instead of consuming it. Leave us alone, please. :)

Julius said...

Less Tony Schultz, more Bullet Tooth Tony!

Lem said...

ot..

Gilbert Gottfried has been fired as voice of Aflac duck for tweeting some japanese jokes..

he was just trying to be current ;)

Among the tweets were these gems..

"I was talking to my Japanese real estate agent. I said 'is there a school in this area.' She said 'not now, but just wait.'"

and..

"Japan called me. They said 'maybe those jokes are a hit in the U.S., but over here, they're all sinking.'"

Really mild stuff IMHO.

garage mahal said...

Now there's a shocker -- a guy who lives off government subsidies is in favor of government handouts.

Government handouts never really reach Tony Schultz. Nickels, really. Big AG is gobbling it all up.I think I could speak for Tony here and tell you to piss the right fuck off.

Seven Machos said...

Garage -- You are missing something so critical. At the Tea Party rallies, parents brought their children. In Madison, public school teachers -- government agents -- brought the children.

Methadras said...

Julius said...

Just for that, Methadras, I will think good thoughts for you and send you cosmic wishes for your well-being... as I eat this Dorito. Lick, lick (I like to lick the cheese off first), crunch, crunch, crunch, yummy! Do you feel any better now?


Didn't feel bad at all to begin with. Oh, by the way, you are still an ass.

Revenant said...

Government handouts never really reach Tony Schultz.

Oh, please. If it wasn't for government handouts there wouldn't be any "family" farmers left.

I think I could speak for Tony here and tell you to piss the right fuck off.

He's a socialist and a parasite on hard-working Americans. I would count it as a mark of pride to know that he hated me.

Methadras said...

former law student said...

Fight Wall Street with all your might.


I consider those to be the producers of wealth. Of course, you are a sympathizer of parasites. You've proven that already.

Throw out all the incumbent school board members.

Heck, run for the school board yourself


I've already given that a shot. It didn't work out because I wasn't in the back pocket of the parasite racketeers and I called them out on it.

Carol_Herman said...

Both parents, today, WORK!

I grew up back in the 1940's and 1950's. Moms were "stay at home." How quaint is that?

Men worked and supported their families.

And, there were boys who played outside and climbed trees.

Kids rode bicycles. Some delivered newspapers after school. And, nobody heard of this "daycare" business.

Good luck to ya if you think little kids like to visit stuffy old buildings. Where they are told "not to run." Can't bounce balls. Can't draw POTSIE boxes on the cement.

Can't play!

Believe it or not, PLAY is a very important part of growing up!

Being towed around by adults is NOT FUN!

And, when I was a kid, you weren't on a bus ride where kids weren't singing "100 bottles of beer on the wall, a hundred bottles of beer. If one of the bottles should happen to fall ... 99 bottles of beer on the wall."

Classrooms were quiet. Bus trips were LOUD.

And, PLAY was included at RECESS.

Let alone, when the final bell rang, and you got to go home!

You think kids today can climb trees?

You think kids hear "go outside and play."

The MARX BROTHERS used to "go outside and play" on the busy streets of New York's Lower East Side.

When Minnie Marx had enough of the boys, she'd tell them: GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY.

So, Chico would ask: "Who has to go outside to play." And, Mrs. Marx would answer: "U-4-a-ya." (Euphoria, for those who can't translate.)

Julius said...

Why have Wisconsin Senate Republicans decided that the votes of the Democrats who have returned will not count and will not be recorded in the official record?

That seems very un-democratic, doesn't it?

Is there any good reason for it?

Revenant said...

Is there any good reason for it?

They were held in contempt of the Senate two weeks ago.

I'm not sure what the next step would be. They might be required to apologize to the Senate?

Julius said...

I'm not sure what the next step would be.

Freshly-baked chocolate chip cookies and a Hallmark card? I'm sure if you look past the "Birthday" and "Condolences" sections, you'll find the "We Absconded To Another State So A Riot Could Ensue In Our Absence And We're Sorry" cards. Probably lots to choose from.

bgates said...

That seems very un-democratic, doesn't it?

The Wisconsin Senate is a representative body, chosen by the citizens of the state to conduct the business of that house of the legislature.

This is what a Republic looks like.

Timon said...

I don't think those chants do any harm. Most kids know their chanting is nonsense: we used to do that constantly in the playground. IIRC, we even did the goodbye chant at line up one year on the last day of school. To chant in a rotunda was probably the whole point of their going.

But do public schools count as legitimate authority?

dick said...

Garage,

Might agree with you if you could show that throwing more and more money at schools led to better education. Unfortunately you cannot do that so your complaint should be totally disregarded.

I have to say that most of my classes until high school had 30 or more kids and we learned just fine.

AST said...

Both of my parents were public school teachers, I can't see either of them participating in something like this. They indoctrinated me in church and conservative politics, but I'm grateful for that.

Clairvius Narcisse said...

big brother loves you

PogoПОССУМ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PogoПОССУМ said...

Is doubleplusgood what to teach children be твердо solid union soldier.

And once union rule become also rule of country, no more union allowed!
Why?
No need for union!
All is union!
Мать Mother country will decide!
Then all chant will be praise only.
Or else.

Is good, да!

All your children are belong to us!

Minga said...

Too angry and sad for words...the poor children...they should not be used.

Minga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Issob Morocco said...

I wonder if Harriet Blair Rowan was indoctrinated like this at this age?

Considering she was making the WaPo at age 11 protesting in Maryland, you have to think someone was creating the protest organizer as a wee lass into what we saw in action over the last 5 weeks.

Paco said...

This truly is frightening

Andy said...

Did anybody else grow up thinking the lyrics were "no dukes of hazzard in the classroom?"

"Mindles H. Dreck" said...

Indoctrination is like farts, if you catch my drift.

Paco said...

This is an example of how the left dumbs down its children.

Don't believe the nonsense that the MFM is pushing that states with collective bargaining have better performing students.

Paul Krugman is one of the loudest voices on this. Even the public editor of the NYT has called him out as being a liar in the past.

The national treasure that is Iowahawk completely destroys this bullshit at his blog.

Read this.. http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/longhorns-17-badgers-1.html

Then this... http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/badgering-the-witless.html

locomotivebreath1901 said...

So... when does this become child abuse, or at a minimum, a violation of child labor laws?

Just wondering...

MadisonMan said...

Wisconsin’s rating was 37th as measured by the amount of debt per capita, 38th (debt by GDP) 39 (by personal income) and 41 (by revenue).

Is 50 good or bad on this scale?

chickelit said...

PogoПОССУМ said...
Is doubleplusgood what to teach children be твердо solid union soldier.

Glad to see you back comrade!!

knox said...

I've got friends who have photos of their kids in "Obama" tee-shirts on FB.

There's no particular aversion to politics on the Left. It's an integral aspect of their identity, one they are proud of. That's why stuff like this, that's so gross to the rest of us, happens. For them, politics and government is whence all good things come.

Suburbanbanshee said...

I'm really surprised that the kids didn't break into a good ol' chorus of "Glory, glory, hallelujah/ Teacher hit me with a ruler/ I met her at the [X]/ with a [weapon rhyming with X]/ And she ain't my teacher no more!"

Or of course the middle school's favorite Pink Floyd song, "We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control...."

DADvocate said...

Might agree with you if you could show that throwing more and more money at schools led to better education. Unfortunately you cannot do that so your complaint should be totally disregarded.

He can't show it because more money doesn't translate to better education. If it did we'd be leading the world already. More money is just the simple minded lefties answer to everything.

Jenny said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AprilApple said...

Save our children: Abolish all teacher's unions. They are money-grubbing thug operations that only care about power.

garage mahal said...

He's a socialist and a parasite on hard-working Americans. I would count it as a mark of pride to know that he hated me.

So add Wisconsin family farmers to the list of parasites, that includes cops, teachers, firefighters, and pretty much anyone that doesn't agree with today's hard right. Nice tiny tent you have there.

former law student said...

former law student said...

Fight Wall Street with all your might.

I consider those to be the producers of wealth.


Oh, please. I-bankers merely take tolls on the road to prosperity. They are like lawyers, only more so.

DADvocate said...

My children (6 and 4)

At those ages there is no way they can fully comprehend the situation.

Do you explain to them that you believe you should be able to force taxpayers to pay you more and give you better benefits than the average taxpayer gets? That you believe in a rigged system that gives an unfair political advantage to unions over others? That you want to deny others the freedom to not pay unions dues and not belong to a union? That the majority of people elected Walker but you want to over turn their will? That their is a difference between sports, religion and poitics? Oh, you don't understand that yourself.

TosaGuy said...

Jenny,

Your parents took you to church and to think the Bears suck....not your teachers.

Your teachers are supposed to help give you the tools to be critical thinkers so that you can decide on your own if you want to continue going to church or change your opinion to think that the Bears blow rather than suck.

I had teachers that tried to indoctrinate and those that made me think. Guess who I respect more and have done more to make me successful in life.

vza said...

Good grief, can the ubiquitous chant orchestrated for dictators and theocrats in the Middle East, be far behind? "With our blood, our souls, we sacrifice our lives for you, O _________",

Seriously, if these kids are children of the protesters and the parents actually teach them about the issues, AND the kids expressed a desire to be a part of the rally, that is one thing. Otherwise, there is something creepy about this. If teachers do this sort of thing with their actual students...sorry, very inappropriate.

Maguro said...

Jenny - Would you be OK with a teacher taking your kids to the Capitol to chant pro-Walker slogans?

former law student said...

Don't believe the nonsense that the MFM is pushing that states with collective bargaining have better performing students.

But they're not, honey. Who said that? We call that a strawman argument.

Paul Krugman is one of the loudest voices on this. Even the public editor of the NYT has called him out as being a liar in the past.

The national treasure that is Iowahawk completely destroys this bullshit at his blog.


Iowahawk did no such thing. He simply played the familiar game of "Squirrel!"


Case in point: Paul Krugman. The Times' staff economics blowhard recently typed, re the state of education in Texas:

And in low-tax, low-spending Texas, the kids are not all right. The high school graduation rate, at just 61.3 percent, puts Texas 43rd out of 50 in state rankings. Nationally, the state ranks fifth in child poverty; it leads in the percentage of children without health insurance. And only 78 percent of Texas children are in excellent or very good health, significantly below the national average.


Did Krugman talk about the state of education in Texas? No.

He talked about

1. The dropout rate. This counts the number of kids not completing their education. The reasons are left out.
2. Child poverty ranking
3. Ranking of children without health insurance.
4. Ranking of unhealthy children.

But, presto-changeo, Iowahawk redefined what Krugman did, and credulous conservatives merrily let him.

E.M. Davis said...

fire on immigrants from helicopters like feral pigs

You see, this is my favorite plank in the Tea Party platform. It's just ... fun!

former law student said...

Do you explain to them that you believe you should be able to force taxpayers to pay you more and give you better benefits than the average taxpayer gets?

Mine told me if I went to college I would make more money than the average high school graduate would. That seems a modest ambition even for a schoolteacher.

The average Wisconsin taxpayer -- with less than a college education -- did make more money before so many plants were shuttered, moving production to Mexico, China, and even Canada.

Oshkosh B'Gosh!

E.M. Davis said...

What's funny is that most of these kids will end up acting and doing the exact opposite of what their 'authority figures' tell them to do.

These people are UNWITTINGLY creating the next generation of libertarians.

hombre said...

DAD wrote (9:24 pm): [Nixon] didn't get us into the mess, but we don't need a history lesson on the Vietnam War right now.... Nixon was one of the biggest assholes to ever reside in the White House.

Similarly, we don't need historical revisionism based on your personal or political preferences. Your point was well made without it.

DADvocate said...

Mine told me if I went to college I would make more money than the average high school graduate would. That seems a modest ambition even for a schoolteacher.

My dad, a college professor, told me to go to get a degree and everything will be all right. He was wrong. That's life. Ironically, the first friend of my generation to move into the upper middle class neighborhodd we grew up in was a plumber.

Believing you're owed a certain level of income or standard of living because of your educational credentials is tomfoolery. Another friend of mine from high school makes six figures with Nissan. He was a very average student and never even earned an associate degreee.

MadisonMan said...

Would you be OK with a teacher taking your kids to the Capitol to chant pro-Walker slogans?

Given that Madison elementary schools weren't in session yesterday, there's no evidence that these women are teachers, is there?

But I say I would be -- if it was explained why they were doing it beforehand to my satistfaction -- which would be a tall hurdle to clear.

I would have been astonished if my kids' teachers -- when my kids were the age of the kids in this video -- would even consider wasting time in this way.

Maguro said...

Did Krugman talk about the state of education in Texas? No.

He talked about

1. The dropout rate. This counts the number of kids not completing their education. The reasons are left out.
2. Child poverty ranking
3. Ranking of children without health insurance.
4. Ranking of unhealthy children
.

Well, Iowahawk's point still stands. Comparing state rankings in any of these categories is useless sophistry without considering demographics.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Mine told me if I went to college I would make more money than the average high school graduate would. That seems a modest ambition even for a schoolteacher.

I'm sorry but I'm having difficulty seeing that school teachers as impoverished or underpaid.

I told my daughter that she needs to enjoy her fall breaks, Christmas breaks, spring breaks and summers off because once you get a job you don't get that time off anymore.

Unless you become a teacher.

E.M. Davis said...

The average Wisconsin taxpayer -- with less than a college education -- did make more money before so many plants were shuttered, moving production to Mexico, China, and even Canada.

Which was inevitable, so we should stop wringing our hands about the loss of manufacturing jobs.

Maguro said...

But I say I would be -- if it was explained why they were doing it beforehand to my satistfaction -- which would be a tall hurdle to clear.

Really, MadMan? I can tell you that if my kid's teacher asked me if she could take my kid out to chant pro-Walker slogans, my response would be "Fuck no". And I like Scott Walker. No way no how does that happen on my watch.

vw - prephive. These vws are uncanny!

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Well, Iowahawk's point still stands. Comparing state rankings in any of these categories is useless sophistry without considering demographics

And the size of the sample. What the NYTs did is the same as comparing the 1st string of an NFL team to the 1st 2nd and 3rd string of another. Gee, which team do ya think will have a higher 40 yard dash average?

Hoosier Daddy said...

What does Wisconsin spend on K-12 education anyway? In Indiana, 53% of our $14.5 billion 2011 budget is going to K-12. It shoots up to 67% when you throw higher education into the mix. In fact, overall tax revenue for the last decade has risen an average of 4% and education spending has risen an averae of 10.3%.

Yet I keep hearing about how we don't have enough money for schools. Seems like its never enough.

Hoosier Daddy said...

So add Wisconsin family farmers to the list of parasites, that includes cops, teachers, firefighters, and pretty much anyone that doesn't agree with today's hard right. Nice tiny tent you have there.

Well I won't call them parasites but the fact of the matter is pretty much every state is saddled with unsustainable budgets, and those individuals you listed happen to make up the lion share of the budget.So something has to give. I mean unless your suggestion is we just hand over our paychecks to the state and federal government and let them give us an allowance.

Fen said...

Yet I keep hearing about how we don't have enough money for schools.

Yup. And if liberals were really serious about their argument, the DC public school system has the highest expenditure per student in the nation. Send your kids there.

Lchristenson2008 said...

All of this is happening because the "pigs" want to be fed more. Keep the kids out of politics. If you can't make it on what the taxpayers are giving you, get a second job like most of us.

p0ssum said...

I always wonder the same with the Abortion demonstrators. OH wait, that doesn't quite fit your narrative, now does it

Fen said...

I always wonder the same with the Abortion demonstrators. OH wait, that doesn't quite fit your narrative, now does it

Huh? Teachers force their students to go to abortion protests with them?

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