May 4, 2011

"What I said was the same thing that the audience here today heard me say, which is, if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to hunt down bin Laden and take him out, then we should."

"Now, that I think has to be our policy, because they are threatening to kill more Americans," said Barack Obama at the Town Hall Debate, on October 7, 2008.



Meade woke up this morning wanting to look that up. Speaking of things clarified during sleep, I woke up on the morning of October 8, 2008 and "decided to concentrate my mind on the question which man won the debate.... It was Barack Obama...." That was the post where I abandoned my vow of "cruel neutrality" as an observer of the 2008 campaign, and said my vote for Obama was "almost inevitable." After the election, when I analyzed my path of decisionmaking — in the post called "How McCain Lost Me" — I said: "So this was the crucial tipping point. Dear readers, it was right there, the morning after the Town Hall debate."

And now, 2 1/2 years after he voted for McCain, here's Meade, drawn back to that same debate. He IM's me the link to that clip about Pakistan. We talk at some length, and he tells me I made the right decision. So you wish you'd voted for him? Yes.

274 comments:

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Brian Brown said...

Jay Retread said...

The most distinguishing thing about Ann is that she does not really subscribe to any set principles (besides herself of course) and does not really have anything to offer but surface analysis. For her it is just about who is "winning!".


Actually,
you're projecting.

You leftists have no principles other than "be in power"

You silly clown.

test said...

"it's Meade's defecation to the Left which is the shocker."

I hope you meant defection.

Once written, twice... said...

No, Meade poops left.

chickelit said...

Jay Retread said...
No, Meade poops left.

Things do swirl right or left.

Let's ask Titus.

test said...

No, Meade poops left.

Since that's the source of the left's ideas there's a certain elegance to that.

Terrye said...

Matt:

I don't think anyone is saying Obama did the wrong thing for heavens sakes. I am glad he gave that order, however, he was able to give that order because of years and years of work by other people that lead us to Obama and because of the Navy Seals whose training made it possible for them to carry off this mission. The idea that it is all about Obama and no one but Obama is what is annoying. Personally, I think any president would have made the same decision..McCain or Bush or Clinton or even Carter.

Terrye said...

And I remember this exchange from the debate...they were not just talking about sending in a US Navy Seal team to get bin Laden, the debate was about a regular invasion force and that is not what Obama did anyway.

chickelit said...

No, Meade poops left.

Are you speaking literally or figuratively?

In other words, are you talking about the chirality of the soft-serve or the intrinsic spin of his ideas?

Anonymous said...

This is bizarre to me. Meadehouse is basing this post on the idea we invaded Pakistan. We did not. We acted on years of intel and executed a one-time military action. If it was a true "invasion," we'd have boots on the ground for an extended period of time. In this clip of Obama, he is championinig the idea of waging an all-out assault on Pakistan, for who knows how long, in order to find OBL.
This is not all what took place on Sunday.
Seriously, let's employ some sense in understanding the difference between a military invasion and a military strike.

Anonymous said...

You been had. You been took. You been hoodwinked. Bamboozled.

Seeing Red said...

Did The Won basically say, "I did this, I did that & then I slept on it?

Then went golfing?"

The Crack Emcee said...

Meade,

Campaign within public financing limits......... eh


THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

Get out of Iraq........... didn't, good

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.


Close Gtmo............didn't, good


THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

Turn back the Patriot Act...........didn't, good

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.


End the electronic surveillance expanded under Bush...........didn't, good


THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

Post bills on the internet before signing......eh

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

Delay signing bills for 72 hours........eh


THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

Get congressional vote before starting new military interventions...........didn't, good

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.


Get U.N. approval before committing U.S. military...........didn't, good

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

End Bush tax cuts...........didn't, good

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.


Officially recognize the Armenian Genocide..........eh


THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.

Try foreign terrorism suspects in civilian courts...........didn't, good

THAT WAS STUPIDITY, HYPOCRISY, AND A LIE.




* I'll get Osama in Pakistan if needed........did it, good

So he got one right and you fold? And you also forget all those stupid, hypocritical, and lying things HE DID TRY TO GET THROUGH?

You're a Boomer, Meade. One pussy-whipped, married to a feminist Democrat, shadow of a man. You have few values worth respecting as you don't respect them yourself - or yourself, or else, as a man, you wouldn't be able to tolerate feminist nonsense. You betray yourself, and your fellows.

Your "logic" here (such as it is) is a crock.

Big Mike said...

Meade might be sorry he voted for McCain, but I'm not.

DADvocate said...

At this point in time the killing of Osama is of little consequence and serves primarily as symbolism. To hang your wish as to who you voted for in this is foolish.

I oppose a great deal of the Patriot Act and the wiretapping, so I get no satisfaction that Obama continues it other than the irony the left suffers. Indeed, Obama's entire presidency is turning out to be ironic. Maybe that's what Meade is responding to.

The Crack Emcee said...

And one more thing:

That you could so easily forget the battles Obama's put us through - for nothing - shows you are not a man of conviction. In case it's slipped your mind, this is a nation of real people and we didn't need this shit, whether you're talking about the economy or the racial shit or any of it.

You both ought to be ashamed. People are suffering because of this man. To be so cavalier about that is disgusting.

You two really are a couple of elitist pricks sometimes.

Phil 314 said...

No, Meade poops left.

I thought that was Titus's gig.

The Crack Emcee said...

And one more thing:

If I sound pissed it's because I was disgusted at the demonization of Bush - by this asshole and others - for things Bush hadn't done. Now we got this guy red-handed - for things he has most certainly done which have hurt individuals and the country - and you give him an "eh"?

That's nothing more than the relativist situational ethics of NewAge.

Peano said...

Dunk your head in the Clairol, Meade. If you're going to be blonde, BE BLONDE!

Nora said...

I can understand that with candidates being more or less equal in their credentials and accomplishments debates might have some value. However, Obama's record does not even come close to McCain's ankle. Although, the media made an outmost effort to promote Obama, their arguments for him still ran somewhere in between "smooth" and "looking/talking presidential". The media made their best prizing his perceived eloquence while covering up his lack of any accomplishments, and his penchant for promising everything to everybody in his speeches. The clip actually shows the usual Obama's all over the place/s position. He defends his absolutely irresponsible declaration on going into Pakistan (you don't open your cards to the enemy) "but" he agrees that politicians should talk responsibly, "but" Pakistan should not be given money for being (at that time) important strategic part of the alliance against Al-Qayida, because it suits Obama at the moment to get on the high horse of democracy defender (which did not prevent him from bowing to Saudi king shortly after) etc, etc.

So no, I don't see how this clip could convince anybody to vote for Obama.

At the time, my husband did not agree with me that Obama is an empty suit. So I bet him to listen at least one whole Obama's speech personally and remain in the same position. So he did listen the whole appx 40 minutes speech on local NPR when Obama came for fundraising in our place of the wood. His verdict was that electing Obama is dangerous for the country, because he is an absolute unknown.

Meade said...

bagoh20 said...

The point of my list which you address was not that he made the right decisions (which frankly were the only reasonable options). It's that he lied about them all, which goes to the idea of why would what he said in the campaign inform anyone to believe him enough to vote for him based on it. Unless Ann is arguing that she knew exactly which promises he would keep or not. I'm skeptical.

I'm skeptical too. I'm always skeptical. I expect politicians to lie. Especially while they're campaigning.

National security was the overwhelmingly most important issue in 2004 and 2008. I trusted Bush on the issue in 2004. I didn't trust Obama on the issue in 2008 but I do now. Ann asked me a hypothetical this morning - if I could have known then what I know now, would I wish I voted for Obama in 2008? My answer was yes because I think overall, the country is in better shape with an Obama presidency than it would have been with McCain.

Will I vote for Obama in 2012? I hope not because I hope the Republicans nominate someone better than John McCain.

Peano said...

My answer was yes because I think overall, the country is in better shape with an Obama presidency than it would have been with McCain.

If you can look at the economy and still say that with a straight face, you are one deluded dude.

Cedarford said...

The "Great War Hero" John McCain was engaged in satisfying the NY Times and sabotaging President Bush on "torture of anyone, even "Koran Abuse" is monsterous. because McCain "knows" that Gitmo is evil and any POW "always outsmarts people asking for enemy "codes and info".

All Before Obama.

Give Obama full creds as a better CiC than Hero McCain, who unlike 13,700 taken by enemy since WWII, deserved to be Senator and Prez candidate because he 'sufered and kept the Officer's Code"

Meade said...

I don't give Clinton credit for "the economy" in 1998, I don't blame Bush for "the economy" in 2007, and I don't blame Obama for "the economy" in 2011.

JohnJ said...

My suspicion was, and still is, that McCain would be a better president than candidate and that the opposite held true for Obama. That ultimately meaningless give-and-take about violating the sovereign territory of Pakistan to get bin Laden is a good example. Obama may have read the voters correctly, but he must have sounded hopelessly naïve to an old warrior like McCain.

However, presented a similar opportunity, does anyone seriously believe that McCain would have taken a pass on killing bin Laden out of respect for Pakistan's sovereignty? There is nothing about the man to suggest that, other than the political posturing he engaged in to avoid revealing his hand.

Meade said...

Right now, odds are Obama will win (re) election in 2012. Therefore, I will do what I can to help elect Republicans to Congress in 2012.

Cedarford said...

JohnJ -
McCain was all about saying what he needed to say to advance John McCain.

From the NVA when he relesed aircraft Codes and full US Navy flight ops on carriers -to bathing in the worship of Progressive Jewish media by trashing his Party's President about the struggle against terrorists - McCain licked balls.

Obama ..a better CiC than McCain

chickelit said...

Cedarford wrote

Give Obama full creds as a better CiC than Hero McCain...

Apple and oranges. McCain has never been in charge. I take it you've seen the photos released of the situation room? The ones which clearly show your hero POTUS "in charge"?

Palladian said...

"I didn't trust Obama on the issue in 2008 but I do now."

He gazed up at the enormous face. Three years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden behind the dark teleprompter. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Obama.

The Dude said...

I bought a new house. In it, I shit towards Mecca. It's not a left or right thing, it's a good thing. Take that you rag headed sand pounding camel fuckers. And muzzies, too.

Cedarford said...

However, presented a similar opportunity, does anyone seriously believe that McCain would have taken a pass on killing bin Laden out of respect for Pakistan's sovereignty?
=================

Well, yes, as Great Captive Hero McCain by Jan 2011 would have "kept the Heroes in Iraq to serve the noble purple-fingered Freedom Lovers", and have started wars in Burma, Libya, Lebanon. And his sought major wars against Iran, the Russians outside Georgia. His love of Americans dying to liberate the Congo, the noble Venezuelans.

Would McCain have betrayed his special friends in AIPAC or the Generals of Rawalpindi like he backstabbed Bush?

No.

So thank God Obama was elected over that treacherous POS. Obama is no Lincoln, but better than the dismal war happy crap McCain promised to the NT Times he would be over backstabbing Bush over GITMO, 'torture', 5 other wars McCain had a woodie for.

Palladian said...

Yes, so far Obama has only gotten us into 1 new war and sent an assassination team into a sovereign country.

DADvocate said...

Right now, odds are Obama will win (re) election in 2012.

After the Gulf War, George H was hugely popular in the polls but it didn't last. If the economy doesn't improve, Obama will be in trouble if (big "if" right now) the Republicans can field a respectable candidate. Maybe someone will come out of the shadows. I'm not particularly fond of any of the Republican front runners right now. Nothing fresh.

exhelodrvr1 said...

So you believed him on this one item, but you knew he was lying on all the others?

Or was this the "military actions inside of Pakistan" the only WOT-related item that mattered to you?

chickelit said...

@Cedarford: You and Althouse are like two peas in pod when it comes to McCain.

How can you otherwise seem so different?

JohnJ said...

“Right now, odds are Obama will win (re) election in 2012.”

Based almost entirely on his giving the order--18 months before the election--to kill bin Laden?

What a difference (apparently) a day makes.

Anonymous said...

If I follow your thought correctly, Mead has relented his vote for McCain and you now toss out everything we've seen on Obamacare and other issues you've disagreed with this president over, all just because he got Bin Laden.
Well then, I'd say that you and Mead deserve one another.

test said...

"Meade said...

I don't give Clinton credit for "the economy" in 1998, I don't blame Bush for "the economy" in 2007, and I don't blame Obama for "the economy" in 2011."

Obama told us giving $1.7 trillion to people who vote for him was going return unemployment to normal. Obviously he was lying. But what about the $1.7 trillion gone or the taxes we will eventually raise to pay the bill? Do you believe 1.7 trillion of taxes won't hurt the economy? Are we supposed to think "well of course he was lying, we can't hold that against him"?

Holmes said...

Voting for Obama means never having to say you're sorry.

Anonymous said...

Ms. Althouse's post reminds me of this quote:

"I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability"

Just when I think Ms. Althouse has come around and she has her act together, she disappoints.

Doug Santo
Pasadena, CA

Anonymous said...

Ann is proof that a higher education does not alway produce an educated brain.

Anga2010 said...

I wonder now what you would have happened if you all had voted Clinton at the primaries?
I think that President (H) Clinton ("the most uncompromising wartime president in the history of the United States"), would have left the enitre town (including the so-called "west Point of Pakistan) a smoking ruin.

Brian Macker said...

Funny Anne, but in your prior posts on voting for Obama I don't once see you mentioning his position on Pakistan being a factor. Seems like you are rewriting history. In fact, I would have seen it as a reason not to vote for him at the time because it showed him to be a hypocrite willing to throw the country under the bus when democrats aren't in power only to use the sames means when he is in power.

It's not like Obama personally tracked down Osama. Had Bush remained president the same result would have been forthcoming, and I very much doubt McCain would have been a dove compared to Obama.

Had it gone sour (through no fault of Obama's) like Carters attempt at rescuing the Iranian hostages then you'd be singing a different tune.

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

This comment of McCain disturbed me. What did it mean? McCain is traditional but what does that mean? Tweed or wool? It can mean he is against free speech if he feels embarrassed by a campaign contribution. Is he telling the Pakistanis he won't be honest with them? That should make them comfortable since they were hoping not to be honest with us. Or maybe he won't go in. Maybe it depends on how much orange juice is in the glass that morning. Straight talk or straight thinking; take your pick.

Chip S. said...

I don't give Clinton credit for "the economy" in 1998, I don't blame Bush for "the economy" in 2007, and I don't blame Obama for "the economy" in 2011.

By and large, these are probably reasonable views. But the 2007-09 recession, one of the worst in postwar US, ended in June 2009 (i.e., the bottom was reached then). It's completely wrong to blame Obama for the downturn, but what about the fact that the recovery has been incredibly sluggish by historical standards? Usually a deep recession is followed by a rapid recovery, but not this time. We have minimal economic expansion and staggering federal deficits over a long horizon--and I think it's more than reasonable to blame Obama for that.

Mutnodjmet said...

The UK Herald has this report, which I find more credible: Mr Panetta was directly in charge of the team, a US official said, and his conference room was transformed into a command centre.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/george-w-bush-congratulates-barack-obama-over-osama-bin-laden-death/story-e6frf7lf-1226048639152

I refuse to gush praise for this president for being lead to do the right thing by more experienced and savvier patriots.

Martin said...

He did what every President would have done. Some may not have taken 16 hours to decide. Explain why this is remarkable?

Anonymous said...

All of the comments that vilify Ann's vote for the feckless POS in the WH, I'd like to echo, not that it means anything at all. Any President who had information that OBL was in a certain place, at a certain time, would have made the same decision (Maybe, even in less than 16 hours!).

Anonymous said...

Meade, why don't you give Charles Johnson a call? You two could compare notes.

jr565 said...

JohnJ -
McCain was all about saying what he needed to say to advance John McCain.


Please! Obama echoed every single lefty talking point about how Bush was a monster for carrying out the War on Terror, apparently without the slightest bit of conviction considering he's adopted 80% of those policies as his own.
Cearly nearly everything Obama said in regards to foreign policy was simply a sop to his base and what was needed to advance Obama.

walter said...

I don't think any other president (besides Clinton) would have done otherwise with available intel. If Obama was right to chastise McCain for being hwaky with bomb, bomb Iran and all..reallyu think he woudl have been hesitant to pull the trigger on OBL? Or are we supposed to believe that Obama's deft navigation of all things war on terror that opened up the intel to begin with?

But what truly bothers me is the handling afterwards.
With the benefit of supposed months to prepare for this, we have such inconsistent messaging on the details?

For example. regarding pics:
Whether right or wrong according to different views on the matter, this administration should have had their collective act together and in sync on the issue. brennan, Panetta and Obama seemed in different orbits.
Further..even if elements of the cowboy/unilateral/sovereignty violating assault account are untrue (armed/unarmed etc), at least give me the respect of a coordinated lie. You know..like Pakistan not knowing he was there, offended by violation of sovereignty. Like that.
And oh..if a major reason for putting Navy Seals at risk was to get a body to prove he was dead (as opposed to bombing), then be respectful to that risk and follow through. But I'll cut some slack here..sorta. If the thinking is that photos are not adequate and considered easily manipulated, then show the panning/rotating video at 30 (much more difficult to alter) frames per second. Certainly the months long planning thought this through, right?

Killing OBL is a tremendous accomplishment. But what is the sum of these flailing parts?

mockmook said...

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

So, the action Meadehouse is praising was based on yet another lie from Obama.

Obama said he would give the PK leader a chance to act. He did not.

walter said...

"Obama said he would give the PK leader a chance to act. He did not."

Really think PK wasn't in on this to any degree? Hmmm.

mockmook said...

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

So, Althouse, did you know Obama was lying when he said this? Did you know he wouldn't inform the PK leader (and wouldn't give PK the first crack at taking down OBL)?

newscaper said...

Sorry, but Meade's list is nonsense.

These good things he's done (BTW I think Patriot Act ideally should be *carefully* scaled back) are in spite of everything he campaigned on, other than the broad outlines of him talking tough on OBL and Afghanistan as a calculated way to offset his defeatist, nearly traitorous undermining of Bush on Iraq for political points.

At either extreme, Obama was either a 100% freakin' la-la land fool on these issues to begin with and a dangerous risk to make CinC but luckily wised up once in office (and unworthy of your vote), or he was disingenuous the entire time in which case he deliberately damaged the country by undermining us internationally with his early rhetoric, and by fanning rather than tempering the leftists delusions about how the world really works.

Not worthy of your vote either way.

Presumably its a headscratcher that Obama has turned out sensible on counterterror (good to his opponents in spite of terrible foreign policy otherwise, bad to his base) but the answer is simple:

To a good Marxist it's all about controlling the economy, everything else is secondary. He knows that a big terror attack was the #1 way his agenda could be torpedoed so his progressive 'principles' go out the window. Same for gay issues so long not important to him.

tom swift said...

Big deal. So Obama starts to resemble a success when he acts like a shadow puppet of George Bush. What an accomplishment! Personally, I'd rather have something much more like the real thing. But of course now he's trying to surrender to Islamic "sensibilities." Too bad he seems to be ignorant of Game Theory. When you're winning, act like a winner, not like a loser.

Meanwhile, Obama's election remains the greatest disaster in American history since the bombardment of Sumter. Which, of course, was also a self-inflicted wound.

FUBAR said...

Althouse is a sophomore in the true sense of the word.

dick said...

Meade,
I just do not see how you cannot blame Obama for the current economy. It is his policies and actions that have worsened the economy to the point that our grandchildren will be paying for their whole lives just to cover the interest. Clinton and Bush did not handle the economy well but they also did not try to implement policies that so devastated the entire economy and did it purposely. He specifically set out to raise the prices on oil and gas and that is devastating the economy. He sold out to the unions on the auto industry problems and actually broke the law doing so and that is devastating the economy. He set out to implement Obamacare and that is already and will further devastate the economy as the CBO has told us. He then turned around and gave waivers to his buddies who worked so hard getting this implemented and our small businessmen will have to pick up the brunt of the problems. And after all of this you give this schmuck a pass on the economy? Unbelievable.

Unknown said...

I don't know...this seems far more emotional than rational. This was the culmination of an operation nearly ten years in the works. Obama was just lucky enough to be in the chair when it finally came to fruition. Yes, bravo for not squandering the hard work of the intelligence officers, but that's a fairly low standard and I can't imagine any other semi-rational person in that office not making the same call. And what's more, it was only a symbolic victory -- a great, satisfying one -- but still a symbol. Balance that will all the other awful stuff this president has done and I just can't agree with your conclusion here.

Dustin said...

A promise to hunt down Osama Bin Laden?

Isn't that just basic stuff? Didn't every candidate promise that, excepting Ron Paul?

This is an ad hoc explanation.

You claimed you voted for a centrist.

dreams said...

Althouse should woman up and just admit that she made a mistake voting for Obama. Her continuing rationalizing of her vote is really unattractive and extremely obvious.

Toad Trend said...

So, at long last, the boy king shows 'leadership'.

Odd, that, patting oneself on the back after so many gaffes and missteps.

Some might say overjustification indicates lingering doubt...

AllenS said...

Are You Smart Than a Fifth Grader?

I don't know. The only thing that I know for sure, is that I'm Smarter Than a Law Professor.

bailesworth said...

I think it's a lot easier to be unconcerned about the destruction Obama has wreaked on the U.S. economy when you've got the job security of a tenured professor.

David R. Graham said...

The premise given for justifying the 2008 vote is groundless: C-i-C did not order up or give go for that operation. C-i-C post facto tried to take credit for an act he neither planned nor ordered executed. The vote justification is a cloud castle. C-i-C is a self-promoting liar.

David R. Graham said...

Someone at top of Paki mil betrayed UBL, probably because Haqqani network decided UBL useless or dangerous to them. Haqqani is behind the Paki flip against UBL. The flight could not have infilled or exfilled through Paki airspace without Paki permission. Same for spending, what?, @ two hours on the ground shooting up thing and people and hauling away moveables. Pakis in on this and that means Haqqani also, probably as subtle mover creating/permitting the operation.

WH has been telling so many lies they finally had to order no further discussion, couldn't keep their lies straight. Feels as though this operation came from State/Defense/CIA/DNI -- the national security infrastructure flanking the un-national, in-secure C-i-C. The 2008 vote was for a community organizer, not a President.

And killing UBL has value as revenge only, which even when serve cold is tasteless and nutrition-less. Strategically the operation was an empty gesture. Tactically it's a whole lot of fun, but there's no war gain, no battle advantage achieved, only quick-melting revenge, not a basis for life, war or voting.

Eric said...

Althouse a traitor? Where do these people get off? Sorry, but some of the commenters here represent the mindset which will help the Republicans lose.

DRJ said...

I'm so glad you posted this. I've been trying to convince my husband not to read your blog for weeks and this finally did the trick.

Beth said...

Years of Althouse commenters crowing about the GOP "big tent" and their many, many remarks about liberals jumping on those who go "off the plantation" make reading this thread a lot of run.

Beth said...

Or a lot of fun. I'm not one to run unless I'm being chased, so that's more likely what I meant.

Anonymous said...

Obama got bin Laden in the same way Nixon put a man on the moon-

... he was President when it happened

Anonymous said...

Althouse isn't a traitor!

She isn't a conservative either.

Cindy Martin said...

Hey Anne,

It's the economy....

Kensington said...

Beth:
"Years of Althouse commenters crowing about the GOP "big tent" and their many, many remarks about liberals jumping on those who go "off the plantation" make reading this thread a lot of run."

I think you're missing the point of a big tent. It's not to bring in Obama voters as they vote for Obama.

DCS said...

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

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