July 23, 2011

"Does Allen West hate women?... [T]he answer seems to be more that Allen West hates everyone."

Oh, boy. It's Amanda Marcotte responding Michelle Goldberg:
That doesn't spare him from being a sexist, however, since his hatred for women has an ugly, gendered tone to it, as evidenced by his strange war on Debbie Wasserman Schultz, whose main sin seems to be a willingness to disagree with West while in possession of a vagina, causing West to claim she's "not a Lady."...

That said, calling a Democrat "not a Lady" and claiming that liberal women are the source of the country's economic woes because we supposedly neuter men are, if anything, the least worrisome parts of the entire Allen West phenomenon. 
Wait. West said ball-busting women have wrecked the economy? Let's refer to the source material: Michelle Goldberg:
Liberal women, he claimed, helped cause the debt by “neutering American men,” which apparently undermined their fiscal rectitude. 
No link for that quote. Isn't it funny that Shirley Sherrod is suing Andrew Breitbart for presenting a quote of hers out of context? Imagine if the law permitted that! We'd all be afraid to say anything. But, okay, I'll go find the context myself. Here. It's a bit rambly, but he's calling for people to be strong and staunch in their conservative virtues. Speaking to a group a women, he praises strong women — even quotes Sarah Palin's "fight like a girl" — but calls on women to demand strength from men. Palin's "fight like a girl" was a "poke in the chest" to men, goading men to fight.

A little more Marcotte:
As Goldberg recounts, West acts erratically, lashes out randomly, has a victim complex that makes Sarah Palin look thick-skinned, and has acted out violently from his rage issues. But the space between Tea Party ideology and unhinged rage is whisker-thin.
So... Palin and West are telling conservatives to stand up and fight, and Goldberg and Marcotte are, really, trying to say no, don't fight. They are happier with tame, sedate Republicans. The method they are using is to portray the fighting Republicans as angry and crazy. I'd like to say that Marcotte and Goldberg are hacks using a boring old rhetorical device, but I think these angry/crazy characterizations do leave an impression.

People are trying very hard to ruin Allen West right now, before he gets anywhere, and they are trying to ensure that Sarah Palin stays down where they think they crushed her.

ADDED: Instapundit says:
Yeah, first Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, now Amanda Marcotte: What is it with the Democrats sending white women to attack a black man, anyway? Are they trying to play on gendered racial fears among white voters? It’s some kind of dog-whistle, isn’t it?

129 comments:

Michael K said...

West has great potential and I agree they see him as a threat. The more people learn his history and why he is Congress and not the army, the more they appreciate him.

Calling him uppity may not be the best approach, though.

SGT Ted said...

Marcotte is a sexist pig, so why should anybody listen to her? She's just afraid of an angry black man, so she is lashing out in a racist way.

Chuck66 said...

Michael K, I was thinking the same thing...that uppity xxxxer doesn't know his place. At least, that is what I hear when conservative blacks are singled out for unusually harsh attacks.

I do recall some lefties condemning Sarah Palin for running for office when they said she should stay home and raise her children.

From Inwood said...

MSM Rule of possible Political Deviancy:

If Dem involved

• Absolute, incontrovertible evidence required or it’s “nothing to see here, let’s move on”.

• Even if absolute, incontrovertible evidence is present,

- remind everyone: “innocent ‘til proven guilty”
- feverishly attack the evidence & the claimants
- Devine Deviancy Down


If "Rethuglican" involved

• The seriousness of the charge is enough to raise concern which must be pursued diligently. “Smoking gun”, you know. Note that "nothing can ever be proven with absolute, incontrovertible evidence, so stop pettifogging & let’s take this to where it leads."

• Even if absolute, incontrovertible evidence of no guilt is present,

- remind everyone that good people don’t get themselves in such situations
- feverishly attack the negating evidence & the claimants of such
- Devine Deviancy Up

From Inwood said...

SGT Ted @12:00

Of course.

But wait, wymyn can't be sexist or racist because they're victims, gurgle, gurgle....

Fen said...

"Does Amanda Marcotte hate men?... [T]he answer seems to be more that Amanda Marcotte hates everyone."

Dr Weevil said...

Does Amanda Marcotte have a problem with blacks in general? The cover of her book It's a Jungle Out There is, at best, astonishingly racially insensitive.

Dr Weevil said...

Sorry, the illustration I linked was not actually the cover: there was a whole series of racially offensive images in Marcotte's book

hombre said...

I'd like to say that Marcotte and Goldberg are hacks using a boring old rhetorical device, but I think these angry/crazy characterizations do leave an impression.

Oh, I don't think the claim that their "characterizations do leave an impression" prevents us from acknowledging that they are hacks.

The negative characterizations of Sarah Palin offered by hacks. often left impressions.

AJ Lynch said...

What is the big deal? Wasserman Schultz, Goldberg and Marcotte are arrogant, resentful far left liberuls who happen to be women.

They hate conservatives. Is it wrong to hate them back?

LakeLevel said...

It's the old apostates must die thingy. If you are a woman or an african american, you must be a Democrat. You are not allowed to think for yourself. If you wander off the reservation, you will be shunned. If you work against the Democrat Party, you must be destroyed, at any cost.

Seven Machos said...

I thought Amanda Marcotte was blogging for erstwhile heroic politician John Edwards. How does all this tie with him? Is there a sex tape involved? A love child?

traditionalguy said...

West is the Samson like unstoppable force heralding truth taking on the till now immovable journolisters' slander machine.

Unless West caves in, I predict that he wins.

Col.West is demanding courage under enemy fire from chickified GOP men. It might just work.

bagoh20 said...

You know the liberals are right: women and minorities really are constant victims of discrimination. They're just wrong about how is doing it, but that shouldn't matter. There is hate out there, and us liberal don't hate anyone.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Just to be clear, I argued that his statement about her not being a lady was inappropriate and sexist the other day. I do not, however, think that he is generally sexist or a woman-hater. He may be; I don't know, but I would need more than just that one somewhat stupid statement to say that.

- Lyssa

Trooper York said...

Is Mandy 27?

bagoh20 said...

"...Allen West hates everyone."

Well at least everyone they know, and I'm beginning to come around to that point of view myself.

I love watching the left go into instant misogyny / racism mode as soon as someone goes off the plantation. Is there anything more offensive than saying your ideas must conform to your sex or skin color? Most racists never think they are being such, because history teaches slowly. It's always OK, because "everyone I know thinks like me."

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I do recall some lefties condemning Sarah Palin for running for office when they said she should stay home and raise her children.

I was in law school during the election, and I heard that from female fellow law students. Amazing. I assume that none of them ever intend to have children, or, if they do, they will quit their lawyering jobs.

While I think that West was wrong here, I definitely think that the attacks on black and female conservatives in general have a strong strain of know-your-place in them.

- Lyssa

madAsHell said...

Amanda Marcotte is quotable because..??

Dollars to doughnuts says she drives a late model Subaru with at least one angry bumper sticker.

Anglelyne said...

Ah jeez, Marcotte. Marcotte is blistering, pathetically, "turn you face away in shame at the cognitive freakshow" stupid.

But I did read the sub-headline up to "Amanda Marcotte" before quitting. Who is this Allan West with the amiable, attractive trait of just "hating everyone"? I'm intrigued. Perhaps I should not have written him off as just another politician.

Anglelyne said...

...as well as not misspelling his name.

Michael said...

There is nothing scarier to a white liberal female han a black man strayed from her plantation.

Seeing Red said...

You wanna be equal.....

If they can't stand the heat, the females need to get out of the kitchen.


Or bend over and take it like a man.


They're falling back on being victims because they were born female.

Blame their mothers for not choosing what they insist on.

bagoh20 said...

So is West an angry scary Black man too. I thought these evolved people didn't have that unfounded fear.

I thing West and Obama are both scary Black men, but one of them is only dangerous to his enemies, and the other one is just dangerous period. I didn't vote for that one, because that was obvious.

Seeing Red said...

Especially if DWS has a history of attacking him.

I mean, how much is he supposed to take?

mesquito said...

Amanda Marcotte is a straight-up racist.

Trooper York said...

I always thought Allan West was gay so it does sound to reason that he hates women. I mean he played the gayest of all Superheros when he was Batman in the sixties. He was more interested in having his teenage ward slide down the Bat Pole than checking out Batgirl.

So I quess you can say that he doesn't like women.

Seeing Red said...

Liberal women, he claimed, helped cause the debt by “neutering American men,” which apparently undermined their fiscal rectitude.



This guy needs a check pronto.


We're transitioning to a matriarchal society.


He's not wrong.

Then we get that woman suggesting women r reading too many romances & make poor choices.

Methadras said...

Allen West hates leftards and their insipid ideology and he's calling them out on it. Seeing his fellow comrades treated like fodder by these leftards only gets him more pissed off. Go West.

Methadras said...

mesquito said...

Amanda Marcotte is a straight-up racist.


Of course she is. She's a leftard. She doesn't care either as long as her leftardism is promoted as being the kind and virtuous ideology that brings all of the little people together... Beneath its heels.

A. Shmendrik said...

West is my Congressional District Representative, I'm proud to say. I loved it, when in response to a question as to whether he was ready to apologize, he said "Not a chance!"

His district abuts Wasserman-Schultz's. Her district is predominantly located in Broward County, which is a Democratic Party stronghold, and a rather corrupt place at the same time.

virgil xenophon said...

""Dollars to doughnuts she drives a late model subaru with at least one angry bumper sticker"

Wrongo, madAsHell: It's an old, dusty Sabaru badly in need of a trip to the wash-rack..

Peter said...

Here's the full(er) West quote. MG doesn't seem to have misrepresented it much:

"We need you [the "Women for West"] to come in and lock shields, and strengthen up the men who are going to the fight for you. To let these other women know on the other side — these planned Parenthood women, the Code Pink women, and all of these women that have been neutering American men and bringing us to the point of this incredible weakness — to let them know that we are not going to have our men become subservient. That’s what we need you to do. Because if you don’t, then the debt will continue to grow…deficits will continue to grow."

I'm not sure why a story that seemed to start off about national manliness and military/cultural might turned at the last moment to debt reduction, but whatever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUCnvIN6E5Y

Peter said...

Addition to previous comment:

Yes, Ann, I know that you provided the link in your original post, but why not just give the immediate context directly -- a context that gave a very clear image of what women's roles are vis-a-vis men's roles? You can, in your summary, say that the speech overall was in favor of strong women, but the image is of a very particular type of strength. The strength of women, it seems to say, lies primarily in the ability to produce and support strong men and -- at the very least -- strong manly action.

Chef Mojo said...

Whenever I think of Amanda Marcotte, I think of her flacking for John Edwards, and going down in a ball of fire.

Why anyone would take her seriously these days is beyond me.

The Crack Emcee said...

I'm not a big Allen West fan, but anyone can see what's going on here:

Republicans must stay down where they can be beaten.

Hand the Libs a stick to beat them with, even.

Anything, but The Macho Response.

I did pick a great name, didn't I? It's almost like I saw the future unfold ahead of time,...or gauged the coming situation perfectly - years ago.

Big Mike said...

Allen West hates BS, which is why he has a limited future in politics anyway.

bagoh20 said...

"The strength of women, it seems to say, lies primarily in the ability to produce and support strong men and -- at the very least -- strong manly action."

Of course he wasn't saying it was the only way to be a strong woman, but supporting strength in men is absolutely required for a strong, safe, fair society. At its core, if women fail in this, the failure is existential to us all.

We are lucky to still have millions of strong men, but no thanks to the likes of these two. We still have strong and wise women who know their responsibilities, how indispensable they are, and step up to the challenge.

What our civilization needs from women is a different set from what it needs from men. There is much overlap, but it's the differences that are critical to understand. That is wisdom. Thank God we still have wise women, who these ladies mostly despise.

Daniel Fielding said...

Amanda Marcotte and her fellow travelers are really frightened by Republicans who will stand their ground and fight back, instead of slinking away in fear.

Peter said...

@ bagoh20

I appreciate your honest and open statement about what you take to be essential and important differences between the sets of male and female responsibilities/strengths in society. (I'm not talking, here, about the overlap.)

I think that West agrees with you. His quote bears that out -- and probably goes a bit farther.

It seemed to me, though, that Ann was trying to sidestep or elide that important main idea.

I suspect she has an opinion on the matter and the rhetoric. Why does she play it down now, when it was the explicit subject within West's talk (to women) and AM's and MG's reactions?

Alex said...

DWS is a raging harpie, I'm shocked Mr. West was as restrained.

Alex said...

Peter - because maybe Ann doesn't have a problem with raging harpies being called bad names. Because assholes deserve whatever they get, man or woman. Cruel neutrality and all.

Lyle said...

Marcotte and Goldberg are really ugly people who just happen to have vaginas.

edutcher said...

What bag said about the plantation.

The Party of Slavery is all but calling out the bloodhounds and the Regulators to haul him back fer a good whuppin'.

God, but those people scare easily.

DerTakhsit said...

I thought it was the right constantly elevating people with more talent for celebrity than governance

KenK said...

Michelle Goldberg is the most loathsome person you've been paired with on BHtv Ann. I am amazed anyone will talk to her at all. Creepy.

Jim Bullock said...

You can, in your summary, say that the speech overall was in favor of strong women, but the image is of a very particular type of strength. The strength of women, it seems to say, lies primarily in the ability to produce and support strong men and -- at the very least -- strong manly action.

"Primarily?"

This flourish comes up all the time. It's a distracting non-argument. Say one thing that is true, but don't say any of the many other true things things, and you're ... sexist in this case.

In a speech to a women's group, about the neutering of men, what kind of women's strength - among the many - is on point? This "stuff he didn't say game" is played to distract from the on-point point without the burden of actually meeting the argument. Meanwhile, if you gotta cover all the stuff that's also true (and good and right and etc.) you're left with no time for ... your point.

There's gotta be a Latin name for this flavor of fallacy. Too bad so many folks are not exposed to reasoning and rhetoric, so they don't realize when they're being played. The metaphorical name for this strategy, among the Chinese classic 36 is "throw sand in their eyes."

Meanwhile, the rhetorical response is: "Well, I'm not talking about that right now." Then return to your point.

Carol_Herman said...

Sarah Palin's not crushed!

Nor was Ronald Reagan "crushed" in 1976.

The republicans are still in trouble. Still ruled by an elite country club. And, not to be out-done ... Drudge has out the headline that Jeb won't say "never."

As if another Bush had a shot.

Nothing the press does makes much sense. They own this hill. And, they shoot arrows into the air from it.

While it's easy to use the Internet, to bypass all the high-falluten-high-paid pundits.

We've also yet to see the "deal" that comes out from Congress. Are they praying for more new taxes?

OR: As Sarah Palin said yesterday: OBAMA IS LAME DUCK.

Spread the word.

Peter said...

Hey Alex!

Thanks for reminding me of this little exchange!

"Here's your crown, Your Majesty!"

Jerome said...

I remember seeing a graph of showing when each developed democracy gave women the vote, and when they voted in the first income tax. About a 10-year delay, in every case. Sorry, Ann, but it really is your (plural) fault.

Roger J. said...

wonderful--an althouse marcotte cat fight--bring it on

dont suppose this has anything to do with blogger hit numbers do you? nahhh--that couldnt be it

Fen said...

This:

Of course he wasn't saying it was the only way to be a strong woman, but supporting strength in men is absolutely required for a strong, safe, fair society. At its core, if women fail in this, the failure is existential to us all.

As proof, we need only look to one group of Americans. Their men are blamed for being absent lazy thugs. Their children have grown up to gather into mobs like animals, to raid local stores and beat people to death.

But if "supporting strength in men is absolutely required for a strong, safe, fair society", then much of the blame rests with the matriarchy.

Chew on that, Amanda.

Trooper York said...

Michelle Goldberg reminds me of Ashley of Hardcore Pawn.

Tim Wright said...

Michelle Goldberg, the author of the piece, appears to be the Daily Beast's designated "hit person" on conservatives. Witness her previous article on how, based on a few comments from tv people, her husband just had to be gay.

I worked as a copy editor. If a reporter had submitted a story like that, aside from the slimy content, so absent of any evidence, I would not only have spiked it, but told her to find another occupation.

TW

Theranter said...

“AJ Lynch said... What is the big deal? … are arrogant, resentful far left liber[a][]ls who happen to be women. They hate conservatives. Is it wrong to hate them back”
“Blogger LakeLevel said... It's the old apostates must die thingy. If you are a woman or an african american, you must be a Democrat. You are not allowed to think for yourself. If you wander off the reservation, you will be shunned. If you work against the Democrat Party, you must be destroyed, at any cost.”
“Blogger Michael said... There is nothing scarier to a white liberal female [t]han a black man strayed from her plantation.”


Above all too true - and related, on a macro scale, these brainwashed liberals don’t even realize how deep their racism and hatred is when you think about their sustained war on Christianity, depicting (with great vitriol and oober-uppity-ness) Christians as unenlightened, homophobic, misogynistic, mentally stunted people— please stop and consider the admirable depth of faith, and high percentage of, Black Americans that are Christian.

The self-righteous liberals don't even realize what they really hate is the Black American Christian (although they would probably say it is “okay that ‘those’ people are Christian”). Liberals could not handle the cognitive dissonance were this truth to occur to them. They’d shit their tofu into their $90.00 organic hemp shorts. (But they are probably comfortable with their belief that as long as those ‘blacks’ are kept quiet by staying in ‘their’ churches and ‘their’ communities, and can be convinced to vote D, all is well.)

I have never met more white people that compulsively point out that someone is black than the white liberal. No matter the situation – from a black public figure to “oooh look at me, I have a co-worker that is black!” (and you don't even want to be around if they "hired one") they are incessantly, annoyingly, obsessed with race (espec the 'black' race). (And may I add lib women practice the highest form of misogyny I have ever encountered.)


The Black Church: According to a report by The Brookings Institution in 1999, Black Americans are in many ways "the most religious people in America." It cited that 82% of Blacks (vs. 67% of Whites) are Church members. It also found that 82 % of Blacks (vs. 55% of Whites) say that religion is "very important in their life". And when asked if religion "can answer all or most of today's problems" 86% of Blacks (vs. 60% of Whites) say yes. (http://www.blackdemographics.com/religion.html)

Chip Ahoy said...

I have a dreadful sister who while growing up together would antagonize antagonize antagonize, refuse to be ignored, antagonize some more until finally I'd push her away. "Mom! Chip hit me!"

Here is Goldberg after she opens her article by attempting to associate West's wartime behavior non sequitur style with the Tea Party, her greatest imminent threat.

The strange thing about the Wasserman Schultz incident isn’t just the crazy email West sent, but the relatively anodyne speech that inspired his rage. It all began on Tuesday ...

Strange email? Anodyne speech? Try again.

And no, it didn't begin Tuesday. She's wrong there too. Now tell me, why do I keep seeing a version of my twisted sister in arrested development displayed in all three of these women?

Synova said...

""We need you [the "Women for West"] to come in and lock shields, and strengthen up the men who are going to the fight for you."

Firstly... Locking shields is a roman legion military tactic. It required working absolutely in concert with no weak links and combined with the short sword made the legions nearly invincible. There is NO insult and NO implication of subservient support in the allusion Allen West used.

The only thing there is is a whole bunch of proudly illiterate liberal women having a fainting spell over it.

"To let these other women know on the other side — these planned Parenthood women, the Code Pink women, and all of these women that have been neutering American men and bringing us to the point of this incredible weakness — to let them know that we are not going to have our men become subservient."

We have two methods here, two alternatives. The first... be strong and make men stronger. The second... be strong by making men weaker.

Any of you tempted to explain that West wasn't saying that women should be focused on supporting the strength of men, just stop it. Our problem is that we've bought in to the notion that supporting the strength of another person makes us weak. Why? Why accept that?

"That’s what we need you to do. Because if you don’t, then the debt will continue to grow…deficits will continue to grow."

It may have sounded less awkward in person but what part of locking shields together and demanding men be strong (and most of those in Congress *are* men, still) is less than the minimum necessary to get us out of this mess?

West's war on Debbie Wasserman Schultz is only "strange" because Wasserman snips and snipes and alludes and bites and West doesn't seem to see the point in keeping up appearances of congeniality in the face of it.

He's supposed to "take it like a man" or something.

And he wouldn't "take it" from a man. Men don't take that from each other. But he's supposed to take it from Schultz? Because she's in possession of a vagina?

Synova said...

And their big brouhaha is hysterical (in the female oriented meaning of the word.)

His sin?

He wrote a column for a Biker Magazine.

Apparently it was a sort of raunchy one.

The hysteria (in the female oriented meaning of the word) over that was so out of proportion and politically opportunistic that a person can only wonder what her *real* problem is.

ricpic said...

I hear fiscal rectitude is in the bondage department at Macy's. Titus will be right over. He's been looking everywhere for the tight tight fiscal rectitude.

Paco Wové said...

"Yes, Ann, I know that you provided the link in your original post, but why not just give the immediate context [...] You can, in your summary, say ..."

Aren't you the bossy one. Don't you just hate it when the wimminfolk need to be micromanaged?

Jenner said...

I wish there were more men like Col. West.

There is nothing sexist about telling someone to act like a lady. This has always meant that one should act respectfully. This is not demeaning to her sex. It comments on her character, not her gender.

Standing up for yourself is not being thin-skinned. I'd like to know just how much you are supposed to take before you take no more?

Peter said...

Oh Paco,

You came so close to being clever.

Of course, it would have helped if anything that I had written were actually trying to boss our blog-host around.

Or maybe I'm just really bad at being bossy, particularly if "I understand that you were trying to do X, but why not also point out that Y" is the best I can do.

It's almost like I was trying to explore and extend an argument! And who would expect that on a blog with comments section?

Luckily, Ann and the other wimmin have you to protect them from micro-managers like me.

Paco Wové said...

Well, at least one of us came close to the mark.

Greg said...

Let's play with the facts here.

Suppose Wasserman Schultz were a man rather than a woman.

Suppose West wrote the same email to the male Rep. Wasserman Schultz and said he was not acting like a Gentleman and would therefore not be treated as one.

Would there be the outrage? Of course not.

The reality is that Allen West chose the polite term for one who behaves in a polite and proper manner towards friend and foe alike. The fact that this opponent has XX rather than XY chromosomes explains the word choice, not any bias against women.

Peter said...

@ synova

I like your close reading of West's speech. Perhaps you should be his speech-writer!

Then he could say things like "fight with you" instead of "fight for you." (Especially since he's not talking about combat.)

And you could have him talking about the shared strength of men and women, as opposed to the fears of women who are "neutering" and weakening men. (Talk about hysterical fears of one "side" being a parasite on the other!)

And you probably could have had him cut back on the rhetoric about strong Spartan women, whose strength lay in pushing away their sons and giving them to the Spartan military.

That would have been an interesting speech about rethinking the gender divide.

I just think it would have been a different speech -- not the one I read.

Clearly, we differ. But I can't help wondering: isn't there any aspect of West's rhetorioc that you find a bit off-putting?

Peter said...

Horseshoes and hand grenades, Paco. So I guess both lost.

Synova said...

The thing is, Peter, that the speech you read isn't the speech he gave either.

And obviously the "fight for you" was because he was talking to a group dedicated to supporting him in the fight in Washington.

Anything can be picked at to nothingness. Though if West wants to hire me as a speech writer I'd be honored. Fair warning, I only write for free on the internet.

And my point about the shields is that West is a military officer. There is no doubt that when he uses a figure of speech referencing military History it is not by accident. He does not use it without an understanding of the context.

So he upsets those who are proud not to have any sort of understanding of Historical military tactics. I'm betting his speech went over well with his audience, and that's who it was for.

And lastly... more power to him and I wouldn't suggest to him that he pussy foot around the ever so delicate sensibilities of the ball-busters. If he hired me to write speeches, I think I could get his "voice" more or less right on.

Synova said...

Oh, and the reference wasn't to Sparta.

Duh.

Peter said...

Hi Synova,

I like how you write. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

But, in my defense (against your "duh"), I did not get the Spartan reference from my paltry knowledge of military history. I got it from West's own speech, where the entire first section is about Sparta.

The central Spartan moment is this:

"But when you understood what made the Spartan men strong, it was the Spartan women. Because Spartan women at the age of nine gave up their male sons...."

And he goes on to talk about the mothers giving Spartan soldiers their sword and shield, and requiring them to either come back victorious or dead, etc., etc.

The point for America, as he puts it, is about family discipline and women's responsibility, as mothers, to create manly and disciplined men.

This is not a bad thing by any stretch, but it certainly makes the gender difference clear.

Here's a link to that part of the speech.

Seeing Red said...

Gore: `I will fight for you'
August 18, 2000


That's what I'm offering. I've got a 23-year record of fighting for working men and women. I want to fight for you.
December 22, 1999
w/Gwen Ifill


West wasn't the last, he most certainly wasn't the 1st.

I got sick of Bore saying it.



Pols always use that term, so what's the issue?

Jay said...

Does Amanda Marcotte hate men?

I'm wondering if Amanda has a brain...

Fen said...

This is not a bad thing by any stretch, but it certainly makes the gender difference clear.

As it should already be. But its not polite to mention that women allowed themselves to be oppressed by men for several milion years. Goes against the narrative.

gutless said...

This Marcotte woman is no lady.

Fred4Pres said...

Amanda Maracotte is a real piece of work.

And she has some serious issues.

Synova said...

Ah, okay. Sparta stuff.

"The point for America, as he puts it, is about family discipline and women's responsibility, as mothers, to create manly and disciplined men.

This is not a bad thing by any stretch, but it certainly makes the gender difference clear.
"

It's not a bad thing at all.

So why prefer language designed to avoid this truth in order not to get Goldberg or Marcotte's or Debbie Wasserman Schultz's panties in a bunch?

And why does it make the "gender difference clear" except that we've internalized the lie that women can only be strong by making men weak?

Our society is abusive toward men and boys. To pull out a single data point... we've convinced most of them that it's simultaneously wrong for them to be emotionally distant from their offspring and emotionally attached to their offspring. They are supposed to, in order to be good men, either love or dispose of their progeny on the say-so of a woman. And like it, no matter what she decides.

West is supposed to treat Schultz as if she is a lady, even when she's not, and is supposed to pretend that the double standard of behavior is what "equality" looks like.

It's psychotic.

Trooper York said...

Mandy is just misunderstood.

There is a nice person under there somewhere.

She just needs to grow up.

Something most liberals never do.

Phil 3:14 said...

You lost me at:

Oh, boy. It's Amanda Marcotte responding Michelle Goldberg:

Fen said...

One thing is for sure: Marcotte is not the one to lecture us about hatred.

Synova said...

My last comment is mangled. Replace "simultaneously wrong for them to be" with "important for them to be simultaneously".

autothreads said...

Debbie Wasserman Schultz, whose main sin seems to be a willingness to disagree with West while in possession of a vagina,

Marcotte likes to use the V word because she thinks it makes men uncomfortable. Not nearly as uncomfortable as she gets when men dare to use the C word.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Does Lowell P Weicker (jr) make you sick?

Let us all appreciate the Other for understanding Buckley.

Would it were opposite.

DerTakhsit said...

I'm mystified why anyone would identify West with some archetypal American masculinity, simply because of his military service. He's a spoiled, narrow minded bully who doesn't have the mental discipline to control his anger.
That self-discipline is what American men used to think, along with dignity, were hallmarks of manhood.

Did you read what caused him to write that frankly nutty letter to Wasserman Schultz? A benign statement, in the boring, ritualized manner of all speakers in the house of representatives.

He's the wrong man to hold up as a paragon. It's a weakness in his character, not a mark of distinction. And he sounded like a whining victim who thought someone was mean to him.

I felt embarrassed for him.

Peter said...

Hi again, Synova.

As a son and a father of a son (and a daughter), I completely agree about the untenable and even "psychotic" position into which we put our boys.

I just hope that my son will turn out as self-reliant and confident as my daughter currently is.

But I suppose I cannot see West as a fellow-traveler, wedded as he is to what he calls an "old school" vision of female strength.

I take your point at the end about double-standards, too.

But just recall that the only person who talked about whether Schultz ought to be treated "like a lady" . . . was West, himself.

Those were his words and his vision of feminine propriety and privilege: "You are no lady!"

Perhaps is was just his way of talking about someone who was ill-mannered (e.g., "You, sir, are no gentleman!"). But it didn't across that way to me. His angry email would have been better without it.

OK, I'm tapped out on this thread, but I plan to keep reading. Nice talking with you.

W.V. = gulla. I'm not touching that one.

Jay said...

I felt embarrassed for him.

And I feel embarrassed for you.

Synova said...

"Did you read what caused him to write that frankly nutty letter to Wasserman Schultz?"

Sure.

And I read Marcotte lying as she claimed that the only thing Schultz has done is disagree with him and have a vagina.

Even the news reports can't ignore that Schultz's vendetta against West is long-standing and relentless, but suddenly the last straw is "nothing?"

How does that work?

Lee J. Cockrell said...

Amanda Marcotte is an idiot and a terrible person. Source: just about anything she's ever written (John Edwards, Duke lacrosse, anything to do with women (or men), etc.).

Luther said...

Unfortunately he has retired from blogging. But Dennis The Peasant at one time did wonderful takes on Marcotte's immeasurable stupidity.

Synova said...

It's like some kid beats the sh*t out of another kid at school and someone says "Do you know what caused him to beat the other kid up? The other kid jostled him in the hallway and knocked his books on the floor. Benign, boring, crowded hallway normal stuff."

And then you say, "But the same kid knocked his books on the floor every day for six months."

And the answer is to insist that it's just about now, this time, and how an angry e-mail is way out of proportion to a snide remark on the floor to an unnamed colleague from Florida and how it proves he's thin-skinned and has anger issues or a single snide remark directed at an unnamed colleague would have never set him off.

It will do West no harm not to play that game. People like Christie for it, too.

Aloysius said...

What we have heah is an insult to the flowah of the South. Will no one have the coorage to avenge this heah outrage? We need whiskey and ropes, I say, whiskey and ropes!

Real American said...

"I want you to argue with them and get in their face." - Barack Obama.

Maybe West is just following that advice. Of course, argument and logic don't work on Democrats, who are immune from rational thought and allergic to intelligent discourse.

Kirk Parker said...

Fred4Pres,

"...piece of work... serious issues..."

Oh, you mean like this:

"I was writing a thesis on The Handmaid’s Tale..."

You just couldn't make this stuff up, nobody would believe you.

Seeing Red said...

So if I tell my female offspring U R no lady it's ok


but if hubby does it, it's making the gender difference clear?




Next time he should just call her a harpie


a shrew

or a banshee



I may have to agree she's not refined.

And there's nothing wrong with being a lady.

Seeing Red said...

I think they should settle this like gentlemen


Pistols at dawn.

Or foils.

Jim Ryan said...

"Devine Deviancy Down"

You won spoonerism of the decade early. This is a keeper.

Canuck said...

"This has always meant that one should act respectfully."

US 19th century railroads had a ladies car and a smoker car.

Two types of women were banned from the ladies car.

I'm sure people can figure out who wasn't allowed to ride in the ladies car.

I think it was odd, what he said. Doesn't mean he hates women, but it does mean I think he's wacky.

Canuck said...

"And there's nothing wrong with being a lady."

meh - I'd much rather be able to settle it with a duel at dawn.

Ladies don't get to do anything fun.

Like duel.

Seerak said...

Wasn't Amanda Marcotte the "look at my breasts" chick in front of Bill Clinton? This post suggests so http://althouse.blogspot.com/2007/03/amanda-marcotte-into-vortex.html

... I don't have the time to verify, my wife is inbound @ the airport.

Canuck said...

"Suppose West wrote the same email to the male Rep. Wasserman Schultz and said he was not acting like a Gentleman and would therefore not be treated as one."

don't the polticians call each other "gentlemen & gentlewomen" in the House?

Will the gentlewoman be recognized? ect., ect. Coulda just used that expression and saved all this hoo-haw.

CarterFliptMe said...

The whole DWS vs West thing was Allen West getting name recognition, which he needed sorely. Not sure if his attack on DWS will help him or not in the primaries. I actually think it helped him with the conservative base but hurt him overall.
I think West's comeback to DWS had more to do with her history, her style, the ridiculous things she says regularly, than it did with her being a woman. His saying he didn't consider her a lady seemed to be him relieving himself of responsibility for attacking a woman.

James Bond said...

Allen West for VP.

Let Joe Biden accuse him of firing his gun next to the Iraqi prisoner he was questioning.

West would say, "Hell, yes, I did it and I would do it again. I was protecting my men!"

Let's see Biden call him an Uncle Tom after that.

Luther said...

"His saying he didn't consider her a lady seemed to be him relieving himself of responsibility for attacking a woman."

Could be, and a good take. As she isn't much of either, really.

bflat879 said...

It seems that Debbie forgot which hat she was wearing. It's obvious these aren't the comments of someone representing their district, but they did sound a lot like something the head of the DNC would say.

If Allen West's district wanted someone like Debbie to represent them, they already had him and they voted him out and replaced him with West.

gutless said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gutless said...

I'd like conclusive, visible evidence that Ms. Debbie has a vagina. We are working under an assumption that may be false. Under Ms. Marcotte's standards an absence of a vagina would change the game. Ms. W/S it's up to you. Show us the evidence and do it now or just back off, man.

DK said...

Palin-West in '12!

The GOP has done much worse.

exhelodrvr1 said...

If the white women don't work, they will try someone gay.

exhelodrvr1 said...

At all costs, the Democrats have to keep Palin/Bachmann/West et al from breaking through. It would destroy their voting blocs.

traditionalguy said...

West is a valuable man, and he knows that.

DWS is an attack dog trying to top the Weiner wagger.

Now she gets called out and she wants to play the little girl who meant no harm act.

The nets should be ashamed of themselves for setting that up for her.

Fen said...

Wasn't Amanda Marcotte the "look at my breasts" chick in front of Bill Clinton? This post suggests so

No. It was Jesicca Valenti of Feministing or somesuch.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/09/lets-take-closer-look-at-those-breasts.html

Although Marcotte defended Valenti by swallowing Clinton. And whatever else it took to pay him back for his veto of a partial birth abortion ban.

Valenti just had the misfortune of being caught in a photo that made her look like a Monica-wanna-be.

Ann's whole point was "why would feminist bloggers even show up for a Clinton meet and greet." So Valenti made it all about her breasts.

Kirby Olson said...

She should get drunk more.

Christian Observations In New Sobriety said...

Ret.Lt.Col. Allen West is a great American "non-beltway" freshman congressman who called out a lead tax & spend Obamatron. GO TEA PARTY ! ! ! REMOVE THE DRUNK-WITH-SPENDING DEMOCRATS ! ! !

Christian Observations In New Sobriety said...

Allen West is a "non-beltway" freshman congressman who called out a lead tax & spend Obamatron such as Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. GO TEA PARTY ! ! ! REMOVE THE DRUNK-WITH-SPENDING DEMOCRATS ! ! !

Brian McKim & Traci Skene said...

I think that calling someone a "lady" (or charging that someone has not acted like one) has no more to do with gender than calling someone a "gentleman" (or charging that someone has behaved in an ungentlemanly fashion). It has everything to do with civility. It's a throwback, a quirk of the language that's used in the Congress. Like referring to "my esteemed colleague." I would be surprised if West is anywhere near sexist.

Clyde said...

For some women, their vaginas are their best features. For others, it is their only redeeming quality. I'll leave it up to the reader to determine whether either of those statements applies to either Congresswoman Wasserman-Schultz or Ms. Marcotte.

artofmine said...

I am a woman who discovered, years ago, the hypocrisy of the "women's movement". The discovery occurred during the Clinton fiasco, when we heard nary a word from the feminists. Their collective silence proved "feminism" was not the primary goal of these women. Over time, their actions and behaviors reflected only one, common denominator -- liberalism. For the past 50 years, we,the American people, have swallowed a lie along with its accompanying, collateral damage: abortion, extramarital sex, and the destruction of the family.

The "feminist" movement has, for me, lost all credibility. It's time to declare the truth, call these people out, and begin the hard work of national repentence.

Nagarajan Sivakumar said...

If there was a contest on who is the most flaming liberal in the US there would be a three way tie between Pelosi,Debbie Downer and Call Me Senator Boxer... and Debbie would win a tie breaker against the other two if there was one. (Al Franken, Al Gore and Alan Grayson will not be allowed to compete as they would have an "unfair advantage" over the women.)

Colonel Allen West did not say anything wrong that i have not felt about her. She is a bitter partisan foul mouthed "lady" and deserves nothing but to be called out for it.

Amanda Marcotte, Michelle Goldberg are prime examples of how the feminist movement in America has completely degraded into becoming nothing more than a tool for promoting liberal mediocrity and pet peeves as its one and only job. Truly pathetic.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Fred4Pres @ 5:37pm

The link you provided allowed my browser to be hacked and attacked with the XP 2012 antivirus trojan.

Did anyone else experience this 'feature'???

Don't click this link to the Amanda Marcotte hate piece, there is more to it than you know. I will likely spend hours disinfecting my desktop because of it.

Thanks alot Fred.

viator said...

Neither of those two look very crushable.

Let the left keep talking and shrieking. Their shrieking is like the Road Runner's running. And like the Road Runner the left tends to find themselves momentarily suspended in reality with no firm support beneath them.

SGT Ted said...

DWS's main sin isnt that she is criticising while in possession of a vagina.

It's that she hides behind it when she gets called out on her bullshit.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

For those that may have been unlucky enough to click on Fred's link and get hacked by the Amanda Marcotte deranged hateful woman page, you can go to the Kaspersky site for a free virus removal tool here:

http://www.kaspersky.com/antivirus-removal-tool?form=1

You may need to use a separate computer, download the executable file to a thumb drive, and transfer it to your infected machine's desktop...then run.

My desktop is now back to normal and free of the rogue security software 'XP 2012 AntiVirus' program that hijacks your browser.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

For those that may have been unlucky enough to click on Fred's link and get hacked by the Amanda Marcotte deranged hateful woman page, you can go to the Kaspersky site for a free virus removal tool here:

http://www.kaspersky.com/antivirus-removal-tool?form=1

You may need to use a separate computer, download the executable file to a thumb drive, and transfer it to your infected machine's desktop...then run.

My desktop is now back to normal and free of the rogue security software 'XP 2012 AntiVirus' program that hijacks your browser.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

For those that may have been unlucky enough to click on Fred's link and get hacked by the Amanda Marcotte deranged hateful woman page, you can go to the Kaspersky site for a free virus removal tool here:

http://www.kaspersky.com/antivirus-removal-tool?form=1

You may need to use a separate computer, download the executable file to a thumb drive, and transfer it to your infected machine's desktop...then run.

My desktop is now back to normal and free of the rogue security software 'XP 2012 AntiVirus' program that hijacks your browser.

wv - amiss

Something is amiss with the Althouse.

Barza said...

Allen West appears to be a political leader that the Left does not understand. He is a very effective communicator, VERY smart and erudite. And he talks about ideas that are foreign to them.

He could be the closest thing to next Reagan or the next Teddy Roosevelt. And he could heal the racial divide that has been made broader by the Obami.

There is no surprise here that the Left is going at him. They would need to get above the Clarence Thomas treatment or the Sarah Palin/GWBush irrationality to substantially affect public opinion.

Lauderdale Vet said...

Allen’s district is adjacent Debbie's district, and Florida is redistricting. Perhaps the threat they perceive is more about that than ideology.

LL said...

Allen West is a hero. You talk about hate. It's the liberals who hate. They hate black conservatives. I am a black conservative. I left the liberal, Democrat plantation a long time ago.

Liberal Democrats are racist. They used to get a pass on their racism against conservative black people. Not anymore. I'm committed to calling out these liberals for their racism.

You liberal racist will NOT continue to be racist against black conservatives like Allen West, and Herman Cain unchallenged. What you people did to Clarence Thomas was evil. No more. You liberal, white racists will no longer safely hide behind your "Democrat" label to get away with your racism.

jamboree said...

I'm sick of fighting.

Men fight each other all damn day every day. I despise having to join in, but the alternative seems to be not making my ideas manifest and that's worse. Some people can pull it off with grace, but I see guys that don't fight get stepped on by The Assholes every day. Still, I can't support that. I like the non-asshole guys hands down.

There is a funny vibe - still - when I challenge a guy, or rather an asshole guy. Not ALL the time, it's certainly improved since I was, say, 15, but it's still there often enough.

I just got one from my contractor. He fucked up. He tried to bullshit me about his fuckup. When I called his bs in fluent enough pipe and hammer and in what on the internet would count merely as a polite but firm objection and counter-argument, he got visibly angry and had to restrain himself.

His poor workers had a horrible day - and not because they messed up the job, but because he had been challenged in front of them and needed to reassert his dominance.

So was this all my imagination? Well, I'm not psychic, but I don't think so.

PaulV said...

2 people separated by a common language

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