August 4, 2011

"Stocks plunged, driving the Dow Jones Industrial Average down more than 300 points..."

"... as investors appeared to lose faith in the ability of the world's policy-makers to revive the global economy and stave off a rolling debt crisis in Europe... Investors across the globe have been buffeted by economic and political turmoil in recent days. In the U.S., fears have turned from worries about a possible default by the U.S. government to a weakening economic outlook."
"You've got a weak economy, the aversion of a debt crisis but not a solution, and you've got the rest of the globe starting to implode in a lot of areas, especially Europe," said Barry James, president and chief executive of the James Advantage Funds. "It's natural that people would react with fear."
Wall Street Journal.

286 comments:

1 – 200 of 286   Newer›   Newest»
rhhardin said...

A stock is worth the present value of all its future earnings (or equivalently the present value of all its future dividends, which is equal to that).

If future earnings look more iffy today than yesterday, stocks will go down.

Governments stepping in is bad for future earnings because it misallocates resources.

Paul said...

All thanks to our "hope and change" president along with his two helpers, Pelosi and Reid.

I say we need TO TAX EVERYONE IN THE ADMINSTATION WHO IS 'RICH'.

They are all millionairs that amazingly make far more profit from their investments than the average folk. In fact if we did that we would be investigated for INSIDER TRADING!

Trooper York said...

Happy Birthday Mr. President.

Shouting Thomas said...

What we need is more green jobs!

That'll fix it!

AJ Lynch said...

Blogging about financial stuff is very rare for you.

Methadras said...

The market is emotionally driven. Haven't people realized this by now? Fear = downturn while the opposite holds true generally.

As long as the Urkle is in office driving his neo-marxist crap as a means of economic ideology, then nothing will be solved or come close to being solved.

rhhardin said...

Rush responds to MSNBC getting an addiction specialist to analyze the tea party by getting a proctologist to analyze the liberals.

G Joubert said...

It's Bush's fault! Does anyone really think the economy will turn around in 15 months?

campy said...

What we need is more green jobs!

Green jobs and high-speed trains.

Carol_Herman said...

It's worse than you see!

On day one ... Monday ... there was such a drop ... that the computers died for 45 minutes. While the banksters printed money in the back room. To fill the hole.

We are now printing worthless money ... along with the European banksters.

It's like Penn & Teller is backstage, setting up their magic tricks.

For how long will you believe money works?

STOP! I DO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER!

I only know that we keep hearing the sounds of the shovels digging.

When I was a kid ... I thought my dog could dig to China.

I know better, now. We're just playing with the crust.

Do the dogs ever learn?

t-man said...

OT -

Why do so few posts appear on the front page now? It seems like there is a maximum of 15. Has it always been this way?

Althouse, if you are in a rapid-posting mood (like today), many other recent posts may be overlooked.

traditionalguy said...

Dollars? What are dollars anymore.

Capital seeks safety. But Obama seeks re-election so that he can finish converting our dollars into Cuban Pesos.

Sixty Grit said...

Hope and change, baby.

Shouting Thomas said...

Funny thing is, I have three (three!) job interviews tomorrow.

Of course, the demands of the jobs are ridiculous... every one demands in-depth knowledge of 8 or more programming and scripting languages and 8 or more application programs.

None of the employers want to spend even a moment training new employees.

Salaries are 70-80% of what they were five years ago.

So, I'm in the odd position of wanting and needing a job, and dreading actually getting the damned thing. It's like walking into a slaughterhouse.

SPImmortal said...

This probably has as much to do with the nightmare in Europe as it does with jugears mcfucksticks mishandling of the economy at home.

Hockey Bum said...

..."the thing that we all ought to remember is that as much good as we have done, precisely because the challenges were so daunting, precisely because we we were inheriting so many challenges, that we're not even halfway there yet." -- President Obama, 8/3/11

"Whenever Obama opens his mouth, jobs die . . . ." -- Instapundit, 7/27/11

Shouting Thomas said...

I'll repeat my bit from yesterday:

Here are a few suggestions that might improve the economy a bit. Note that they are all impossible to effect for political reasons:

o Cease attempting to suppress domestic oil, gas and coal production

o End illegal immigration. Stop it cold. Not just on the Mexican border. Stop importing Indian techs on visas who take software jobs away from Americans.

o End the racial and sexual quota systems. Allow employers to hire without reference to government quotas.

o Repeal Obamacare.

This will help somewhat. Probably won't entirely fix things, but it will help to some extent.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

See...all that Kabuki Theater isn't fooling anyone.

These deals that are no deal.

Solutions that solve nothing.

Pretending with magical thinking that they are stopping the financial and economic decay.

Adding fuel to the fire with more regulations and more uncertainty

Borrowing over 100% of GDP

Posturing to save their own asses in the next election instead of making hard choices

Run amok non elected Czars with special agendas

Refusing to create jobs by expanding our ability to develop energy and easing the burden on businesses.

The general refusal by the political professionals to pull their heads out of their asses.

We can read the writing on the wall.

Contrary to the opinion of the elite political class and the leg humping chihuahua's in the media.....the people are not stupid.

The freaking Titanic is sinking and it is every man (and woman) for himself.

vw: caphit. Yes, we have hit the cap and we can take no more.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Repeal the Bush tax cuts and pass cap and trade now.

Everything will be fine then.

traditionalguy said...

While Chinese labor was made into the economic engine of capitalism after 1992, we lived off of the dot com bubble, followed by the real estate bubble, followed by a Higher Education bubble, followed by a Keynesian bubble, but alas there are no bubbles left to float the stock market on.

That is what Putin said about us, and he was right.

We need to go back to industrial work and compete with China.

That means a shrinkage into lots of social programs.

But using our abundant energy resources will be of great help. But the Enviro/Marxists are choking that by EPA Edicts.

TosaGuy said...

Love a good bear stampede, especially when I sold my high fliers last week.

Stocks were too high in April and they are too low now. Buy stock in companies that you like and wait awhile -- especially if they are strong companies that pay good dividends. Some gutsy people will make a pile of money picking the right speculative stocks, I am not that gutsy.

Hockey Bum said...

"We need to go back to industrial work and compete with China."

Industrial output of the United States, 2010 - $3,254,032 million

Industrial out put of China, 2010 - $2,751,024 million.

The Drill SGT said...

don't forget the bazillion new pages of regulations that our overlords are adding.

Carbon regulations
oil regulations
gas regulations
ozone regulations
sodium (salt in food) regulations
advertizing to kids regulations
toy regulations
safety regulations
CAFE regulations
the list goes on and on, each one drives down the GDP a bit

add in the slow down of all sorts of environmental, zoning, and other business permits

add in a beefed up ESA

add in tilting of various rule making bodies in the Union/FCC/FTC/FDA space

you get economic paralysis

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm looking forward to reading tomorrow's edition of the Woodstock Times.

It will all be explained. My predictions:

o It's racism. Racists are deliberately sabotaging the presidency of Obama.

o Punish corporations with taxes and regulations.

o Profiting from energy production should be made illegal. Green energy is the answer.

o It's the Republican's fault. They won't let Obama spend more money.

You should read the Woodstock Times. I cannot possibly over-exaggerate the madness.

AllenS said...

Right now:

Dow 11,562.60 -333.84 -2.81%
Nasdaq 2,607.54 -85.53 -3.18%
S&P 500 1,222.45 -37.89 -3.01%

gerry said...

especially if they are strong companies that pay good dividends

Amen.

ricpic said...

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

--Charles Dickens

Of course when you can print your own money it takes a little longer but eventually misery arrives.

Tim said...

Next time a Democrat tells you he wants to restrain the economy because "“I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money", let's all do ourselves a favor and believe him, even if nothing else he says is believable?

AJ Lynch said...

Campy said:
"What we need is more green jobs!
Green jobs and high-speed trains."

Heh - with comments like that, you could pass for Garbage Mahal.

Hockey Bum said...

"Stocks were too high in April and they are too low now. Buy stock in companies that you like and wait awhile -- especially if they are strong companies that pay good dividends. Some gutsy people will make a pile of money picking the right speculative stocks..."

My investment philosophy is that you never go wrong betting against the small investors. They're at the bottom of the information food change and whatever information they're acting on has already been incorporated into the market.

Triangle Man said...

You should read the Woodstock Times. I cannot possibly over-exaggerate the madness.

The markets read Nate Silver's blog post at nytimes.com saying we were at the brink of another recession. Maybe the markets should read the Woodstock paper instead, because all of those reasons are fixable.

Shouting Thomas said...

Oh, I forgot the most important reason for our economic problems:

o It's Bush's fault!

Trooper York said...

I had a few minutes last night and I decided to waste them watching the Chris Matthews show since he is always good for a laugh.

He had the usual douchenozzles jounalists scumbags like Alter and Howard Fineman. They were talking about the partisan attacks on Obama has prevented him from doing what he needs to do to save the economy. Now lets ignore that he controlled the Congress for his first two years in office. Let's ignore that he could have passed whatever he wanted on a strict party line vote. Is it the job of the opposition party to just lay down and do whatever he wants? I remmember all the support the Democrats gave when Bush was in office.

It is just laughable sometimes when you hear this so called pundits speak.

There should be term limits for tv journalists as well as politicians.

But that is never gonna happen.

Triangle Man said...

Repeal the Bush tax cuts and pass cap and trade now.

Everything will be fine then.


...and move to single-payer universal health care.

AJ Lynch said...

This free fall will make it interesting to see what tack Obama takes in his Midwest jobs tour. Will he take the high road and act like the country's cheerleader in chief or will he just go on bashing the rich and corp jet owners?

TosaGuy said...

"My investment philosophy is that you never go wrong betting against the small investors. They're at the bottom of the information food change and whatever information they're acting on has already been incorporated into the market."

Too many small fry don't know their limitations, nor do they separate their stock investing from their stock gambling. Both are fun, but need to be done with proper perspective.

Maguro said...

...and move to single-payer universal health care.

Did you miss the part of the article where it said a lot areas are starting to implode, especially Europe?

The idea that socialized medicine is some kind of fiscal/economic panacea is spectacularly wrong-headed.

TosaGuy said...

STANDARD DISCLAIMER.......if you take investment advice from a guy whose avatar is a dog with a martini, you probably screwed.

Cedarford said...

Bad times for America. Change is needed. Painful change that will hit, have to hit all of us. No exemptions for the standard of living of poor welfare mommas or rich people asking to not sacrifice a dime.

An end to the outlook of bearing any burden, anywhere for the cause of Freedom!! because we have unlimited wealth. Of free trade, as China has raped us, taken our jobs and industries. Of all the great ChinaStuff so cheap! cheap! cheap at the local MaoMart. A end to ag subsidies, oil subsidies, Israel subsidies.
Time to close the Borders to illegals and refugees coming in....even if they "suffer" in consequence.
Time to take away any job an illegal holds if an American wants it.
The end of the Pentagon screaming "terrorist evildoers!!" and getting whatever money they demand for the Heroes of America.

NO more COLAs for seniors. We announce we pay the same for drugs as Canada does and means test free drugs for seniors.

We do huge Pentagon cuts, but also look to chop other Federal agencies.

If need be, we shut down the courts by declaring a national emergency so critical projects like water for crops, developing energy resources, rebuilding infrastructure is not tied up for 10 years by lawyers.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

GOP demands deal, gets 98% of what it wanted. Stock market crashes. Heckuva job GOP!

Carol_Herman said...

Sorry, Tosta Guy. But the "small investors" have left the playing field.

Ditto, for homeowners who'd love to sell. But who won't sell until prices "go up."

And, prices aren't going to go "up" for 20 years.

While over in France, Sarkozy has just approved an investigation into the new lady who heads the IMF. For "awarding" $400-billion in a sweetheart deal.

What's really going on?

Well. It's like Penn & Teller are backstage. Setting up one of their magic acts!

There's NO money being printed!

We're watching escapades done with DIGITAL manipulation. I'm not even sure the patient's rear is stuck out ... Nor is the doctor asking you to "cough."

It's make believe money, now.

I noticed this on Monday. When the stock market first had a severe drop. And, conked out the computers for 45-minutes. When they came back on "line" ... there was fake money in play. To prop up the ZOMBIE.

Shouting Thomas said...

GOP demands deal, gets 98% of what it wanted. Stock market crashes. Heckuva job GOP!

Yes, that one will be in the Woodstock Times, too! I expect to hear that one from Obama, too.

The stock market couldn't possibly be crashing because of massive over spending and borrowing.

garbage isn't just a thug. He's an idiot when it comes to economics.

Cedarford said...

Maguro said...
...and move to single-payer universal health care.

Did you miss the part of the article where it said a lot areas are starting to implode, especially Europe?

The idea that socialized medicine is some kind of fiscal/economic panacea is spectacularly wrong-headed.

===========
You miss the part where healthcare per patient is 40-60% cheaper in Europe and Asian countries like Japan because they cut out all the middlemen and control costs right up to what doctors get. Owners of healthcare facilities have their profits capped.

Most these countries have better dental care, longer lifespans than America does.

I am in favor of anything that can cut costs massively while still having an acceptable product or service. Europe is in deep trouble, but it isn't a heathcare system 50% cheaper per patient than ours that is driving that.

Chuck66 said...

But hey, at least now it is illegal to purchase insurance that doesn't offer free (sic)birth control. Obama is on the job!

Hockey Bum said...

Sorry, Tosta Guy. But the "small investors" have left the playing field.

And what does that tell you?

Hockey Bum said...

if you take investment advice from a guy whose avatar is a dog with a martini, you probably screwed.

It's still better than the stock brokers I run into.

TosaGuy said...

"Sorry, Tosta Guy. But the "small investors" have left the playing field.

And what does that tell you?"

That I skipped reading Carol Herman's post again.

Ann said...

"Repeal the Bush tax cuts and pass cap and trade now.

Everything will be fine then.

...and move to single-payer universal health care."

And properly inflate your tires.

garage mahal said...

If we just would have defunded NPR, and closed more Planned Parenthood clinics we wouldn't be in this mess.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

For everyone who is freaking out right now about the Dow Industrial Average DJIA dropping a few percentage points, get some perspective. I was an investment advisor since 1991 and have seen the market go up and down and over again.

First of all the DJIA only represents a very few companies (30) and it is a price weighted average. Not the actual stock prices.

Second, just a few short years ago (first quarter 2009) the DJIA was sitting below 7000. If you were smart enough to buy THEN you are still sitting pretty. Believe me, I had a HELL of a time trying to convince my clients to purchase when the market was dropping. Those that listened, are happy.

In 1992 the DJIA was in the 3 to 4K range. People who invested then....still good.

The DOW is not the sum total of the market, it is just one the more visible pieces and one that people who have no economic sensibilities latch onto.

However, what is different now is a government that is crushing the economy and a more worldwide collapse of stability and currency. So, while the DJIA is not extremely significant, it is symptomatic of a much wider and deeper and very frightening scenario.

I expect and predicted to my clients last December (on my way out the door) that we would probably see a 30% or more correction in much of the markets by the end of 2011 if there were not some serious and significant changes in governmental interference, tax reduction and a sharp and immediate reduction in spending (not over the next 10 years but NOW). Since none of these things are happening, I stand by my prediction.

I also predicted inflation would begin spiraling out of control because of the money being dumped into the system world wide and the governments monetary policy had kept rates artificially low for much too long. That at some point interest rates would have to rise and that if you were currently invested in marginal rate bonds....get out and wait for the interest rates to go up to invest in fixed income if you can even find a place with acceptable risk.

I recommended my clients buy/move into defensive stocks, invest a portion of their funds in 'hard assets' and look to emerging markets for growth and to take advantage of currency trading.

Keep a lot of cash on the sidelines so when the markets do correct and we are looking at a 7000 DOW, you are able to take advantage.

I kiss the ground every day and thank myself for getting out of the business.

pauldar said...

Liberal Fat cats had to sell stock to be able to attend the zillion dollar Obama Birthday Party which of course crashed the market

that is what my grandpa said

Hockey Bum said...

If we just would have defunded NPR, and closed more Planned Parenthood clinics we wouldn't be in this mess.

Because subsidizing partisan news outlets and abortion clinics are core government responsibilities?

MadisonMan said...

Last time I checked, Mom's stocks, which I have not yet inherited, had dropped 6% since early July. So that's $8K I can't pump into the local economy. The only stock that's done okay? BP :)

tree hugging sister said...

Oh, goody. Captain Kickasstic just had his flunkies say they weren't "worried about a double dip recession". Yeah, really. Why sweat something coming that feels like it never left...

Shouting Thomas said...

If we just would have defunded NPR, and closed more Planned Parenthood clinics we wouldn't be in this mess.

Jesus, garbage, the incredibly stupid things you attribute to your political opponents.

That's your idiocy, garbage. You spend a lot of time thinking that your opponents are as thuggish as you are.

Defunding NPR and Planned Parenthood is not an economic imperative. Nobody has argued that it is, except for fucking idiots like you.

Those who want to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood want to do so because the Fed should not force taxpayers to support a liberal agenda.

This is probably too much for a pea brained thug like you to understand.

Chip S. said...

Most these countries have better dental care, longer lifespans than America does.

I don't know anything about international dental care, but I do know that if you look at life expectancy conditional on having just about any of the major diseases, the US heath care system performs better than any other, including Switzerland (healthcare wonks' fave).

Our simple average life expectancy is lowered by all sorts of things that are unrelated to health care.

Hockey Bum said...

Keep a lot of cash on the sidelines so when the markets do correct and we are looking at a 7000 DOW, you are able to take advantage.

Sell on the sound of cannons, buy on the sound of trumpets? Is that how Nate Rothschild made his money?

MadisonMan said...

Second, just a few short years ago (first quarter 2009) the DJIA was sitting below 7000. If you were smart enough to buy THEN you are still sitting pretty. Believe me, I had a HELL of a time trying to convince my clients to purchase when the market was dropping. Those that listened, are happy.

This was when everyone -- well, not EVERYONE, but a fair few -- in althouse was throwing around the term Dead Cat Bounce as the market started rallying.

Moral: Don't take investing advice from the internets :)

Greg Hlatky said...

Today's news is just another indication of the failure of unbridled and unregulated capitalism and the need for more Harvard-credentialed oversight.

As for Europe, they need to raise taxes and cut their bloated defense budgets.

TosaGuy said...

"Last time I checked, Mom's stocks, which I have not yet inherited, had dropped 6% since early July. So that's $8K I can't pump into the local economy. The only stock that's done okay? BP :)"

Lots of people are going to make alot of money with BP in the next few years. Buy it and enjoy the 4 percent dividend until then.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Sell on the sound of cannons, buy on the sound of trumpets

And pay attention to the statistics on odd lot trading.

ricpic said...

He who skips reading a Carol Herman post will miss tidbits like:

There's NO money being printed!

Carol Herman is in cahoots with Ben The Bernank to keep us off the scent.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"..."Repeal the Bush tax cuts and pass cap and trade now. Everything will be fine then. ...and move to single-payer universal health care."

And properly inflate your tires..."

And eat your peas.

Curious George said...

"MadisonMan said...
Last time I checked, Mom's stocks, which I have not yet inherited, had dropped 6% since early July. So that's $8K I can't pump into the local economy. The only stock that's done okay? BP :)"

But there is $8k that the buyer of said stocks can pump into the local economy. So it's all good.

David said...

The "deal" on deficit reduction actually did nothing to reduce the deficit. It set up a mechanism to try to reduce the deficit in the future.

Also, the deficit projections are based on, among other things, an assumption of an expanding economy and rising federal tax receipts.

If the economy tanks and tax receipts fail to increase as projected, the deficits could increase, and the increase could be dramatic.

Nearly everyone is assuming that we have several years to work our way out of the government fiscal disaster.

It's possible that the day of reckoning will come much sooner than we imagine.

Hold on tight if that happens.

Carol_Herman said...

Hey, ripic. Even your dog can't find the money we're told just got printed.

Perhaps, you've never heard of digital money.

But it's still a charade.

What went into boosting the market on Monday (during the computer glitch) ... is digital. And, also in thin air.

I don't know Mr. Bernanke.

Nor do I follow him.

Maybe, your dog does, though?

Maybe, you know where the "treasure" is hidden?

Me? I just gamble on imagination. And, when I saw Drudge today, I realized the IMF is about to get the heave ho.

And, yes. I also believe there is a secret deal between Sarkozy and Merkel. Unknown to us. But it's the reason the EURO hasn't caved.

And, ya know what? I don't care if people scroll! I, too, have exactly the same permission.

gerry said...

Most these countries have better dental care, longer lifespans than America does.

Good lord, dude, have you ever looked at a British or German smile? When my cousin visited from Germany, her teeth were a solid yellow. ANd Brit dental care...

WV: lefib. Another leftist fib.

Triangle Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ricpic said...

Buy low, sell high.

Remember, you heard it here first.

But above all else, trust no ones picks.

Do your own research.

And if you're too lazy to research and then research the research stay out.

Yes, I've been burnt.

MadisonMan said...

Curious George, that comment made absolutely no sense to me, but I'm not a real investor. Who can invest money with college tuition to pay for? (Don't get me started on the inanity of FAFSA and Colleges in cahoots to strip wealth from families).

We do buy ~$100 in MGE Energy stock every month. It's a local company that does pretty well.

Hoosier Daddy said...

We need to be more like Europe with their emasculated military and generous social programs.

If we can get a 10% VAT and some high speed choo choos everything will be fine.

Tank said...

garage mahal said...

GOP demands deal, gets 98% of what it wanted. Stock market crashes. Heckuva job GOP!


Could be a grain of truth here. Maybe investors were waiting to see if the GOP would force real change. They didn't, and the market reacted (not on this alone, but a factor).

FedkaTheConvict said...

The out of the money puts I bought last month are now deep in the money. I'm cheering the market down; is that wrong?

Carol_Herman said...

Toe each his own.

I've been having a feast at the Belmont Club. Reading comments.

Here? I've notice a nasty small group of bullies ... who think they're so funny when they claim they can scroll.

It's a wonder they can read.

garage mahal said...

The stock market couldn't possibly be crashing because of massive over spending and borrowing.

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree? Now it's crashing immediately after Boehner claiming to get 98% of what he wanted?

Triangle Man said...

Don't take investing advice from the Internet, and especially not Pogo.

t-man said...

DBQ -

You left out a cohort of people who began to invest in 1999-2000 range. Ten years with almost zero appreciation.

Tank said...

garage mahal said...

The stock market couldn't possibly be crashing because of massive over spending and borrowing.

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree? Now it's crashing immediately after Boehner claiming to get 98% of what he wanted?


Well ya got your various idiot cheerleaders, add in 0% interest, then spice up with gov't printing money faster than the eye can see, and what you got is another gov't induced buncha BS gains.

This is largely a reflection of the money the Fed has been pumping into the system to keep us artificially afloat. That sucking sound you hear is ...

ricpic said...

Here's another little secret: all the investment smarts in the world rarely beats the simple but miraculous power of compound(ing) interest.

roesch-voltaire said...

Head of Pimco, William Gross, had this to say:
Admittedly, as Meeker’s table (Figure 1) points out, we can address these liabilities by improving the efficiency of our healthcare system, reducing benefits, raising retirement ages, increasing tax rates or a combination of all of the above. We likely will..
I have money invested with him, but not sure how likely we are to get an increase in taxes, which we need. As I took a bit hit today,because didn't get enough of my funds into Swiss Francs, I found this comment on the EDAP message board:
God bless us because this capitalism really stinks. the profits go to the ones who already have and are taken away from hardworking "middle class" people who really got roped into the stock market as a way to "earn" profits over time for retirement or other expenses.

Hockey Bum said...

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree? Now it's crashing immediately after Boehner claiming to get 98% of what he wanted?

It also went from 9,000 to 6,600 under Obama.

Dude, the recent drop couldn't have anything to do with the lousy economic data just released showing we're headed into a double dip?

Hockey Bum said...

Here's another little secret: all the investment smarts in the world rarely beats the simple but miraculous power of compound(ing) interest.

So what's your bank paying these days? And how does the compare with, for example, the CPI?

MadisonMan said...

all the investment smarts in the world rarely beats the simple but miraculous power of compound(ing) interest.

Have you looked at interest rates lately? Good luck finding something over 2.5%

My daughter has Savings Bonds that are yielding 4%. I tell her to keep those.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You left out a cohort of people who began to invest in 1999-2000 range. Ten years with almost zero appreciation.

Depends on what they bought, how long they held it and total return on the investment.

all the investment smarts in the world rarely beats the simple but miraculous power of compound(ing) interest.

Normally, yes over time. At .05% coupon in an inflationary period not so much. The real rate of return on such investments today is a negative.

However, people should be investing and thinking long term. Day trading is fun and so is betting at the track. Neither are long term strategies for success.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree?

I thought that was The Economy Obama Inherited From Bush™.

garage mahal said...

Dude, the recent drop couldn't have anything to do with the lousy economic data just released showing we're headed into a double dip?

I'm sure it is, and the realization that absolutely nothing will be allowed to be done to solve it.

Lionheart said...

Chickens coming home to roost Barry.

Scott M said...

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree? Now it's crashing immediately after Boehner claiming to get 98% of what he wanted?

For the exact same reason people were still sun-bathing on the beaches in Indonesia at 10:24am on December 26th 2004.

Is it really that hard to figure out, Garage? We're in real trouble here and neither side seems to be serious about it.

Chip S. said...

There's only one area of commentary that allows as much narrative freedom as does instantaneous stock-market analysis.

gerry said...

Here's another little secret: all the investment smarts in the world rarely beats the simple but miraculous power of compound(ing) interest.

True.

Duke Energy is selling today for $18 and pays $1 annual dividend (5.5%).

Spectra Energy is selling for 25.55 today and pays 1.04 dividend (4%).

Procter and Gamble is paying 3.4%

You can buy these and have the dividends reinvest automatically, compounding the dividends.

edutcher said...

OK, lessee,

The PIIGS in Europe have become the PIBIGS - add Belgium to the critical list.

Little Zero can't live without Timmy Geithner (you don't suppose the rumors are true?), so he's staying on as idiot in charge of the money.

And Bernanke is going to do QE3.

Anybody wanna bet Zero is regarded as the Demos' Herbert Hoover in 5 years?

traditionalguy said...

Bernie Madoff is advising the IMF from his jail cell.

He told them to buy Treasuries and wash them to reprint larger size notes on them. That saves printing paper costs

The man is a genius.

Everything is counterfeit these days. That is why Gold has risen in value.

So Madoff is advising the Fed to counterfeit gold bars.

The man is a genius.

Now if someone can counterfeit American jobs, we are going to be OK.

Oh never mind, that is what the government has been doing.

GOP Reality is stopping the Madoff Boom from counterfeiting assets.

Garage is right.

Heart_Collector said...

I put a high sell rating on gold and heavily endorse reinvesting in shotgun shells.

Chip S. said...

Having posted the appropriate disclaimer already, I will note that Obama last addressed the nation on the evening of July 25. The market started dropping in earnest on the 27th.

just sayin'

wv piteemon (My financial advisor is Jamaican.)

Alex said...

garage is not capable of multitasking or understand those that do.

We can be equally concerned about:

* crushing debt
* shutting down NPR for ideological sake

You see you can walk & chew gum at the same time.

Peano said...

Repeal the Bush tax cuts and pass cap and trade now.

Everything will be fine then.


Don't forget high-speed rail. We must have high-speed rail!

Alex said...

I'm sure it is, and the realization that absolutely nothing will be allowed to be done to solve it.

The answer to all our economic problems is SPEND SPEND SPEND!!!

Alex said...

We need a $4 trillion stimulus that it spent over 2 years. High speed rail, an iPad for every student, mortgage assistance, rent assistance, smartphone bill assistance, everything!

Oh and raise taxes on the wealthy bastards.

Heart_Collector said...

Peano said...
Repeal the Bush tax cuts and pass cap and trade now.

Everything will be fine then.

Don't forget high-speed rail. We must have high-speed rail!




Oh we got high speed rail alright, and we found out Obama really was black.

Hes dick is huge, I know cause I can hear america screaming as he high speed rails her in the ass.

Alex said...

I'd like garage to explain me how government is responsible for our most innovative industries. Meaning prove me a direct causal link between government actions and the iPad.

ricpic said...

For all those questioning whether compounding can work nowadays -- if you're willing to stipulate that the interest kicked out be re-invested back into a high yield bond fund, otherwise known as a junk bond fund, you can do very nicely. Of course there's risk involved but I've been in one such fund for decades and the worst that ever happens is that one or two of their holdings (out of 50 or 60) may go belly-up, temporarily knocking down the price of the fund. Overall yield is unaffected and price has always recovered. High Yield bond funds yield interest payments in the 5 - 8% range. Mine is the T. Rowe Price Hi-Yield Fund.

Tank said...

400+ down.

Think I'll go home and BBQ some burgers.

Throw in a couple of beers, maybe a mojito, saute some onions, ...

No worries mate.

Hockey Bum said...

I'd like garage to explain me how government is responsible for our most innovative industries.

From the late 60s through the 80s virtually all technological advancement was somehow attributed to NASA. That included the microchip, etc. The iPad depends on this important NASA-derived technology. Ergo, the government, through NASA, is responsible for the iPad.

I like this version better, though. Al Gore took the initiative in creating the Internet. Without the Internet there would be no iPad. Ergo, Al Gore is responsible for the creation of the iPad.

And without NASA and Al Gore technological progress would not have occurred. We'd all be driving '57 Chevys and watching Howdy Doody on our tube TVs.

chickenlittle said...

How much gold is in Fort Knox and whose is it?

Alex said...

The first microprocessor:

Intel 4004

Nothing to do with NASA. 100% free market.

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm sure it is, and the realization that absolutely nothing will be allowed to be done to solve it.

More of the wisdom of garbage.

Wall Street is crying out for another multi-trillion dollar stimulus package!

SPImmortal said...

Dude, the recent drop couldn't have anything to do with the lousy economic data just released showing we're headed into a double dip?

I'm sure it is, and the realization that absolutely nothing will be allowed to be done to solve it.

-----

So what are the solutions?

I need a good laugh today.

Alex said...

Investors are screaming for multi-trillion stimulus package.

Alex said...

Since when does garbage care about investors? Aren't they that hated class of schemers and speculators that should be done away with?

Almost Ali said...

Thank god for the mute button.

Today's magic number: 500

edutcher said...

We're down 680+ in 3 days.

Does this count as a vote of no confidence?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Trying to esplain economics to garage is like trying to teach a horse to sing.

Chip S. said...

So what are the solutions?

Welcome to the economic policy and portfolio management hotline.

If you believe in a Higher Power, press 1.

If you're an atheist, press 2.

If you're an agnostic, please hold the line. Someone may or may not take your call.

Scott M said...

His empathy gland just gave him a spritz.

Mike said...

Well Canada reversed a similar recession with 10% across-the-board cuts in government expenditures. But that would never work here, would it, Garage?

Hockey Bum said...

Nothing to do with NASA. 100% free market.

That's why I specified the microchip. But anyways, my point is that is how people like Joe Biden can utter absurdities like, "Every single great idea that has marked the 21st century, the 20th century and the 19th century has required government vision and government incentive."

It's pure baloney, but they believe it.

garage mahal said...

Limbaugh thinks Obama's economic role model is Robert Mugabe, who took white people's farms. LOL

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...Obama's economic role model is Robert Mugabe, who took white people's farms. LOL..."

Not implausible. Obama admitted he wanted to spread the wealth around. He did that with GM for his union buddies.

Chip S. said...

"Every single great idea that has marked the 21st century, the 20th century and the 19th century has required government vision and government incentive."

There seems to be a typo in that quote. Replace "marked" with "marred" and it makes sense. Think of "great" (def'n: "notably large in size") ideas like Prohibition and the Great Society.

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...
Limbaugh thinks Obama's economic role model is Robert Mugabe, who took white people's farms. LOL

Which part of that makes you laugh the loudest?

AllenS said...

The market has closed:

Dow 11,383.98 -512.46 -4.31%
Nasdaq 2,556.39 -136.68 -5.08%
S&P 500 1,200.10 -60.24 -4.78%

Some job numbers or such are coming out tomorrow, Friday. I don't think it will be good news.

Almost Ali said...

I saw the long shadow of John Galt cross Wall Street today.

Curious George said...

garage mahal said...

The stock market couldn't possibly be crashing because of massive over spending and borrowing.

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree? Now it's crashing immediately after Boehner claiming to get 98% of what he wanted? "

Laying off people in response to sagging demand and fulfilling orders from inventory leads to some big temporary profits.

You're an idiot.

chickenlittle said...

The friendly skies have not fallen! link

Tell that to Henny Penny.

garage mahal said...

Which part of that makes you laugh the loudest?

Just the ridiculousness of it I suppose.

traditionalguy said...

We need to withdraw all of the liquid gold we can from our ANWR fields set aside for oil withdrawals.

ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE EXISTS NOT TO DO THAT!

Wait until President Palin is unnecessary.

AllenS said...

Hockey Bum mentioned something about NASA. I've been thinking, let's stop going into space and direct NASA to develop and institute some voyages into our oceans. There's got to be something that we can retrieve that will directly affect our daily lives, for the good of everyone and whatever they can come up with will provide new jobs. Fuck that green shit.

DADvocate said...

The world's policy makers have certainly not shown the ability to revive the global economy and stave off debt crises. Had they had that ability, we most likely wouldn't be where we're at now. The minimally sufficient bill just passed by Congress and Obama drives home that point.

For years, they've been too busy buying votes via individual and corporate welfare programs to worry about fiscal responsibility.

Seeing Red said...

BUT BUT BUT

I thought raising the debt ceiling was supposed to restore confidence & bring back jobs????

However can this be?

AJ Lynch said...

Dow is down 500+ points! What a rotten thing Wall Street did to Prez Obama on his birthday. I bet the Prez will get drunk tonight.

Curious George said...

"MadisonMan said...Curious George, that comment made absolutely no sense to me, but I'm not a real investor"

Pretty simple. You get $8k less for your stock, so you can't spend it. But the buyer has the additional $8k he would have had to pay for your stock left in his pocket, so he can spend it.

Hey, didn't mean to make light of this stock loss, but you made the "pump into the economy" comment, I was just saying that the buyer can now do it.

Get it?

Cedarford said...

500 points down, 400,000 more jobs lost to China...more uglies to come tomorrow...

I think the days of pallets of 100 dollar bills flown in and given to Ahmed Karzai and the noble "Freedom-Lovers" of Iraq are over.
No more wars of adventure and nation-building.
Bye-bye to Israel and Egypts multibillion dollar annual welfare checks.
The days of discussions about Amnesty and tens of millions then comining in for welfare on family reunification are over.
The days of the EPA wrecking jobs with ridiculous regs are over.
The days of insisting free trade for freedom lovers in the globalist community ultimately benefiting American job creation are over.

And yes, the Republican idea that above all other things, the sacrifices that 97% of us must now endure - the top 3% must never face. That they must keep their Bush tax cuts as the highest Republican policy objective and never revert to the horrible economic only 26 million jobs created days of the Clinton Administration - are also soon to be over.

Time for Romney and Perry to start piping up about their plans to recover America.

Canuck said...

Not exactly a surprise, is it?

Winter is coming.

Pogo said...

"Don't take investing advice from the Internet, and especially not Pogo."

How true. Hilarious.
Mebbe I was just two years early.
Nah.

Seeing Red said...

You miss the part where healthcare per patient is 40-60% cheaper in Europe and Asian countries like Japan because they cut out all the middlemen and control costs right up to what doctors get. Owners of healthcare facilities have their profits capped.



And U miss the part of the American taxpayer undergirding it all for over 60 years.

Good thing you said "most" on the dental side, the Brits have had national dental care for 60 years and the young are finally benefiting.

Scott M said...

I bet the Prez will get drunk tonight.

Being a redhead, even if I'm not hungover, if I've been drinking heavily the night before, it's painfully obvious to anyone that knows me. Given the media coverage, I can easily see swearing off drinking for fun completely during a presidential term.

...except for beer summits with my quick-to-judge racemongering friends and cops just doing their jobs.

Smilin' Jack said...

"Every single great idea that has marked the 21st century, the 20th century and the 19th century has required government vision and government incentive."

So true. Private enterprise may give us an Edsel now and then, but it takes government vision to give us a world war. Or even a Vietnam.

The Crack Emcee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seeing Red said...

As for Europe, they need to raise taxes and cut their bloated defense budgets.

Britain's navy is already back to the 1500's, how far back do you want them to go?


LOLOLOLOL

AllenS said...

Crack,

It's the fuckin Jews, man, the fuckin Jews.

Seeing Red said...

The days of the EPA wrecking jobs with ridiculous regs are over


Watch TX.

Pogo said...

DBQ knows more than I ever will about this. She said back then that hyperinflation was a distinct risk.

I was pessimistic then and even more pessimistic now.

I hope I am very very wrong.

The Crack Emcee said...

Cedarford, you have one of the weirdest views of how the world's been working I have ever seen:

A conglomeration of fact and fantasy that, when challenged on, you run away from backing up with evidence - you just move on to spout it somewhere else.

What gives?

You don't seem stupid like Garage and Cookie,...

Seeing Red said...

Well Canada reversed a similar recession with 10% across-the-board cuts in government expenditures. But that would never work here, would it, Garage?



They also drill.


The only net stock tip I ever used was buy SU.

The Crack Emcee said...

Hey, everybody - Oprah's in!!

Everything's going to be fine now,...

Michael said...

The market was in a panic today as investors "de-risked" as it was put on one emergency conference call this morning. Anything that looks like it is risky is being abandoned (at least for today. The sell off in certain sectors was huge. Whether this is a portent of what is to come remains to be seen but there is growing sentiment that we are on the edge of, or in, part two of a double dip recession. Italy is is dire trouble. The policy makers as the article suggested have few place to turn. A QE3 will be death to the markets.
This is not a sell off that is being driven by earnings but rather by the larger negative view of the road ahead. Look for beaten down dividend stocks, cigarette makers for one, that can be bought on a sell off with a decent yield. People do not quit smoking in depressions oddly enough/

Michael Haz said...

The Dow closed 512 points down.

I suppose we'll hear how it would have closed 612 points down if *someone* had voted for McCain instead of Obama.

Canada, liberal Canada, has debt equal to 35% of its GDP. America has now eclipsed 100%.

Please explain why liberals think this is sound economic policy.

fafhrd said...

Was that the sound of Obama's re-election campaign grinding to a complete standstill?

Or was that MegaMaid, from Spaceballs- and its gone from suck to blow?

Cedarford said...

Canuck said...
Not exactly a surprise, is it?

Winter is coming.
=======================
Winter is coming. Yes.
It gets much worse, we will have a national emergency.

1. Fuel? Check,
2. Ammo? Check.
3. 4 months of food inc canned goods and rice? Check.
4. Gold and silver for emergency currency? Check.

Not too late for the riots to start in cities of people 40 years on the government teat. Late July- late August are prime season.

Wonder what the next Obama Family vacation will be?

DADvocate said...

Please explain why liberals think this is sound economic policy.

Because giving everybody "freebies" is so fair and just. Never mind that there is no free lunch and everything must be paid for eventually. (Plus, the get a lot of lazy, useful idiots to vote for them.)

Carol_Herman said...

There's an easy rule. You CANNOT go above 100%. You can say you can. But you really cannot.

And, we're above our annual 100% of capacity right now. (Of "output.)

That's why the borrowing number is FAKE. Because it is mathematically impossible to produce. (National Production Levels, notwithstanding). The shit is now just made up.

There's no paper, either.

It's like the speedometer on the car. When the mechanic laughs. And, resets the dial.

Scott M said...

Was that the sound of Obama's re-election campaign grinding to a complete standstill?

It was in full swing last night. How vacuous do you have to be to waste on of those important birthdays (ie 50th) by spending it with campaign doners?

AllenS said...

I'll say this, not only is the markets reacting to this character called obama, but they are rejecting, also, the signing of this outrageous bill that does nothing to stop this deficit/debt problem that we have. That is the real problem. Every politician that voted for this, is part of the problem. Yes, that includes you, Boehner.

Carol_Herman said...

Oh, yeah.

Our supreme court. (The supreme court of this land.) Has already "spoken." The Federal government cannot tax "munis."

So, some of the taxes that are being theatened as "collectible." (Because some people are "rich.") Cannot be collected, either at the end of a gun. Or a badge.

HOWEVER, IF there are people who want to believe Obama? I say pay them with Monopoly Money. All of us have some, somewhere.

The supreme court, however, doesn't even judge Monopoly Money as counterfeit. Because if you want that job done, you have to go to Parker Brothers.

Scott M said...

Something that didn't occur to me until today regarding whether or not Timmy G leaves or stays was the fact that leaving would create a hole that only a Senate-confirmed candidate could fill. First of all, who would want that job? Second, it will be an ugly, ugly confirmation hearing during the ramp up to a presidential election year.

DADvocate said...

they are rejecting, also, the signing of this outrageous bill that does nothing to stop this deficit/debt problem that we have.

Absolutely. This seems to be abundantly obvious to everyone except those in Washington (and a few others).

Carol_Herman said...

What if Sarkozy and Merkel, at their secret meeting, decided it's Belgium that dies? (Belmont's on a roll!)

Carol_Herman said...

If Geither goes, the confirmation hearing is going to be a breeze! Teddy's dead.

Hey, maybe, the senators will "suggest" picking Jon Carey? Yeah. I know how to spell it. But I did it my way.

Given Geithner's going as being good for America ... I don't assume Mitch McConnell will be your leader of doom.

Seeing Red said...

We're Fannie/Freddie writ large.

100% loans!

How much do you make again?

No problem!

AJ Lynch said...

AllenS:
You are right. The public knows the debt deal was a sham and the markets do as well. Yet our poobahs in Wash DC went out and did their celebratory dance like they always do. I think they are the only ones who really think that debt deal was a solution to our problems.

DADvocate said...

Then why did it go up from 8000 to 12,000 under Obama during his huge spending spree?

Free government money. Now it's gone.

Heard a cable news financial guy say that yesterday. It went up for short term, unsustainable gains built on government money, not performance. Such financing can't go on forever and mow the money won't be there.

wv - nonon spelled backwards is nonon

AllenS said...

Good point, DAD.

Eric said...

While Chinese labor was made into the economic engine of capitalism after 1992, we lived off of the dot com bubble, followed by the real estate bubble, followed by a Higher Education bubble, followed by a Keynesian bubble, but alas there are no bubbles left to float the stock market on.

That is what Putin said about us, and he was right.

We need to go back to industrial work and compete with China.


If that's the case the DOW stocks should be fine. They do almost all their manufacturing in China.

PatCA said...

Gee, it's almost like they think debt is bad or something.

Racists!

Eric said...

However, people should be investing and thinking long term.

True. The problem is this is more than just a cyclical downturn. We have a lot of problems, some due to the state and some not, that aren't going away until we address them. And we're not addressing them.

I can't figure out where to put my money. I doubt there are many solid investments that are going to beat CPI + the tax burden over the next decade.

garage mahal said...

Just need to cut our way out of this.

Shrink = Grow!

AllenS said...

Go ahead, garage, give us some good pointers on how to revive the downturn. Seriously.

Shouting Thomas said...

Shrink = Grow!

What needs to grow is the private sector.

Yes, shrinking the public sector will help that to happen.

garage mahal said...

Yes, shrinking the public sector will help that to happen.

It is shrinking. And yet things are getting worse. Why?

Pogo said...

" I doubt there are many solid investments that are going to beat CPI + the tax burden over the next decade."

My problem, too.

All I can come up with is ammo!

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

We just need to raise taxes and spend another trillion or two that we don't have. That should solve our problems!

Almost Ali said...

Is now a good time to bring up the impeachment of our boy king?

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...

It is shrinking. And yet things are getting worse. Why?

Obama needs to walk in Walker's shoes. Wisconsin leads in creating jobs.

Hertz, donut?

Roger von Oech said...

Double Dip Recession Flavors
Dow down 500, and the result? Why a new Twitter hashtag of creating #DoubleDipRecessionFlavors

Here are my favorites:
• Strawberry Shortsell
• Rocky Road
• Shovel Ready Sherbet covered with Disappoint-mints
• Burpee in your Slurpee
• Outtamoni
• Debt and Deficit Swirl
• Bend Over Brownie
• Janet Neopolitan & Unemployment Crunch
• Class Warfare-melon & High Speed P-Railines n' Cream
• Tea Party Truffle with Terroristic Toppings
• Keynesian Bites
• Eat your Peas swirl
• Rum Raising Interests Rates
• Berry Bear Market
• Half-Baked recovery
• Breadline Banana Split
• Vanilla Jones
• Orange u glad we vote next year sherbet
• Mint More Money Chocolate Chip
• Ewie Gooey Rich & Chewy QE
• Straw(man)berry & high speed rainbow sherbert
• Rocky Road (to ruin)
• Unicorn Rainbow Spending Sherbet & Chunks o' Turd
• Mint Double Dip, Pray Lean I'm Creamed
• Kick the Can Down the Rocky Road
• Teleprompters and Cream
• Underwater Mortgage Marshmallow and Overdraft Orange

garage mahal said...

Wisconsin leads in creating jobs.

Wisconsin is not even leading in the Midwest.

Seeing Red said...

It is shrinking. And yet things are getting worse. Why?

Because regulations aren't?

Shouting Thomas said...

It is shrinking. And yet things are getting worse. Why?

o Wild overspending and borrowing by the Fed

o Deliberate suppression of oil, gas and coal exploration and production

o Racial and sexual quotas

o Illegal immigration

o Obamacare

I could go on and on.

Government is not shrinking. It is expanding explosively.

Shouting Thomas said...

Is now a good time to bring up the impeachment of our boy king?

The last thing we need to do is to make a martyr out of Obama. The race hustlers would go wild.

Best to let the voters decided in 2012.

garage mahal said...

I could go on and on.


You could, but you would be repeating more falsehoods along the way. The comments here are just fucking dirt dumb.

Hockey Bum said...

Is now a good time to bring up the impeachment of our boy king?

Naw, he has an insurance policy.

Cedarford said...

U.S. incomes plummeted again in 2009, with total income down 15.2 percent in real terms since 2007, new tax data showed on Wednesday.

The data now revealed from 2011 studies showed an alarming drop in the number of taxpayers reporting in 2009....
==================
Shipping huge chunks of US industry to China along with all those middle class manufacturing jobs will get you that horrific drying up of taxpayers effect. And no, that revenue stream is not replaced by it all going to 30 owners that profit from the Chinese outsourcing and pay little or no taxes outside the 15% rate capital gains if their lawyers can't keep the profits offshore. And the no-tax paying clerks hired by the Owner Class to work at MaoMart to sell the ChinaStuff.

AJ Lynch said...

Garbage:
Consumer confidence was almost fatally damaged in Sept 2008 and Obama has not been able to restore the lost confidence. It is as simple as that. Nothing personal- Obama just does not have what it takes to choose the greater good of the country over his own left wing tendencies.

chickenlittle said...

Obama just does not have what it takes to choose the greater good of the country over his own left wing tendencies.

It's no use AJ. Garage will just say that Obama has no left wing tendencies.

Shouting Thomas said...

Obama just does not have what it takes to choose the greater good of the country over his own left wing tendencies.

There you have it. Ideological concerns over fairness and social justice leave no room for pragmatic response to the economy.

Pogo said...

Nah, garage, Obama's doing a great job.

He's hit every one over the fence, and now he's pointing to center field.

The Dow is just mad at the GOP! Wall Street was hoping for even more borrowing than before. Deficits to the eyeballs!

Sure, it worked for Greece and Italy, right?
And Spain and Ireland?

Keep the faith, man.
They's just hatin' on him 'cause he's Winning The Future.

DADvocate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

Everything works on disagreement.

There's a voluntary trade when you value something I've got more than something you've got, and I think the opposite. We trade, and we both profit. Our standard of living rises. Add it up over the nation, and the nation's standard of living rises. That's how wealth comes into being. Disagreement.

Businesses are created to produce stuff that they value very little compared to their customers, so there are huge numbers of trades with customers. Businesses are creators of disagreement and the trades that result.

Look at the gap between what you value your stuff at and what I do. That gap is what makes a profitable transaction possible.

If you're regulated a lot, your stuff costs you more, and you value it higher. The disagreement narrows. A lot of customers no longer value your stuff at more than you do. So not only is each transaction less profitable on both sides, but many fewer transactions happen at all.

The former is called reduced earnings.

The latter is called a contractionion in the economy.

The more regulation, the smaller the economy.

(The filling in of the disagreement gap is called the wedge, usually a tax wedge but it can be a regulation wedge.)

Now look at the Obama bureaucratic empire, and see why the economy is going nowhere.

DADvocate said...

Obama just does not have what it takes to choose the greater good of the country over his own left wing tendencies.

A point I tried to make earlier in a different thread. Obama wants to pick winners and losers. He wants to pit the rich against the poor, whites against minorities (maybe not Asians, as Asians are too successful already), unions workers against non-union, public against private.

As Abraham Lincoln said, "a house divided against itself cannot stand." Obama's proving Lincoln's point.

Pogo said...

"Now look at the Obama bureaucratic empire, and see why the economy is going nowhere."

But rhhardin, what about the multiplier??

I'm sure it's just quietly working its magic in the background, an invisible gubmint hand moving from my pocket to yours and yours, on down the line, when suddenly one day we're rich again.

Winning The Future!

Eric said...

It is shrinking. And yet things are getting worse. Why?

What's shrinking? Certainly not the government.

garage mahal said...

Keep the faith, man.
They's just hatin' on him 'cause he's Winning The Future.


I have zero faith. One party is feckless and too timid do what it thinks will help the economy. And the other party wants a horrible economy so they can get elected. Even if they didn't want a horrible economy their ideas have been tried and proven nonsense.

rhhardin said...

You're better off with zero interest and zero inflation than the traditional 5% interest and 3% inflation, because you're not taxed on interest due to inflation.

You're always actually living off real dollar principal, but the zero interest and zero inflation case makes that more obvious.

As you live longer into retirement, just spend less in real dollars each year, in either case.

Paddy O said...

This is what democracy looks like?

Paddy O said...

"One party is feckless and too timid do what it thinks will help the economy. And the other party wants a horrible economy so they can get elected."

So, a repeat of the 2008 election?

Shouting Thomas said...

At least garbage is on the verge of throwing in the towel.

That's a sign we're making some progress.

Even the craziest of the crazies has given up on Obama.

Pogo said...

What Would Chicago Do?

That's the way outta this mess, am I right?

Fred4Pres said...

Rollercoasters can be scary.

Fred4Pres said...

Trooper York said...
Happy Birthday Mr. President.


Who does the Dow think it is? Marilyn Monroe?

Pogo said...

Time to invest in The Blue Pills.

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