September 15, 2011

Baseball's Meanest Players.

Sports Illustrated polled 215 MLB players to get this list.

#9 and #13 are Brewers.

And what was #13 thinking?

86 comments:

David said...

The All-Mean Team would be a pretty good team.

Carol_Herman said...

Michael Lewis' MONEYBALL is coming out as a film, very soon. It's the story out of Oakland. With a manager's who name, I think, was Bean.

Basically, he thought baseball statistics were crap. And, he was convinced to use a "game plan" ... instead ... that depended on a man's ability to HIT.

"Stars" were out! They weren't economically feasible.

So, too, were the players who bunted. Because that's a "scene stealer." And, not a team player.

Michael Lewis (just as he did for football in THE BLIND SIDE). Makes professional baseball go stand on its head. As it explains why a team can win ... with under-rated players.

It's just another version of the American Success Story.

John Thacker said...

#1 is no surprise.

Dose of Sanity said...

I think this list is just a list of popular players. Almost all of them are super-stars.

Interesting list though.

Also, lay off Prince. It's the truth that's not a secret and hasn't been since before spring training. Just because he affirmed it (again) doesn't mean everyone should lose their heads.

Morgan's comments on the other hand...

Dose of Sanity said...

"popular" in my answer was a funny choice of words.

Maybe famous is better?

madAsHell said...

Prince?
Nyjer?
A Boy Named Sue?

w/v:nosestf - no, it's not

SMGalbraith said...

If your dad was named "Cecil" and he named you "Prince", you'd be pissed off too.

And if you were 280 pounds, nobody would stop you.

Re "thinking": "I'll work that out after the season" is the right answer, Mr. Fielder.

If the Brewers collapse, Fielder better move on to another city. They'll run him out of town.

edutcher said...

They forgot one of the meanest men in baseball - Warren Spahn.

Fred4Pres said...

Milton Bradley is a shitty player.

I am looking forward to Moneyball. Great book. I hope they do not screw it up.

Fred4Pres said...

But the meanest of the mean remains Ty Cobb. Ironically not a Yankee.

Leland said...

Moneyball: "Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A's."

I expected Brad Pitt to ruin the movie from the moment I heard he was to play Billy Beane. So far, the trailers aren't changing my opinion.

Other than that, Milton Bradley is #3? It must be pretty close at the top of the list. Remove MB, and I'm with David and DoS. That's a great team.

Trooper York said...

Carol_Herman said...
Michael Lewis' MONEYBALL is coming out as a film, very soon. It's the story out of Oakland. With a manager's who name, I think, was Bean

YOU ARE KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE MANAGER OF THE OAKLAND A'S WAS NOT ORSON BEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE DO NOT POST ABOUT BASEBALL ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike said...

I'm looking forward to it too, but I kinda feel bad for Jeremy Brown (I think that's him) he gets called fat for like 10 pages - even by the people who like him.

Even pro players can't want to be called fat repeatedly on screen

Trooper York said...

Billy Beane who is the subject of this bullshit movie was a lousy Met player and the most overrated General Manager in baseball history.

Money ball is a bunch of bullshit.
The only time the A's won was when they had a bunch of juiced up home run hitters. They haven't won jack.

Fred4Pres said...

Trooper, you cannot take anything Carol says seriously.

traditionalguy said...

Nyger is a theatrical player.

He doesn't show the determination of Ty Cobb...yet.

Trooper York said...

But Fred Baseball is sacred. It's not something we can joke about like Jesus or Sarah Palin's vagina.

Respect must be paid.

Fred4Pres said...

Moneyball is a great book. But you are right about the A's, they need their players juiced, so they then can get picked up as over priced free agents by the Yankees.

Trooper York said...

This list is another bullshit popularity contest like most of the crap that Sports Illustrated comes out with. These guys are all good players. That' why the anonymous douches voting want to dog them. Nobody is jealous of losers like Jose Reyes or David Wright.

Show me a nice guy and I show you a loser.

Trooper York said...

Hey so we signed Jason Giambi. He was an aberration for us lately ever since George went all Carol Herman on us. The core four were home grown Yankees. Now we are bringing up new kids that will do the same thing for us.

Jesus is the answer.

What's the question?

Who is going to be the Yankee's catcher for the next fifteen years!

Fred4Pres said...

Respect must be paid.

True.

But Carol Herman is one of those crazy people that the Indians would never kill or harm during a massacre. Like Ol Mose in The Searchers.

Jose_K said...

AJ is hated by everyone but for hismother and Ozzie. It is not jealousy.
TP is 100% on target. How been perpetualy in third place in the worst division of baseball(with 4 team)) could be called a success?

Trooper York said...

We are the 7th Calvary. We kill everybody and let God sort them out.

Jose_K said...

But it is wrong about Wright and Reyes. Two real superstars.
Anyway: nice guys always end last

Trooper York said...

Two real superstars of crap.

You will never win with those losers!

The sooner they are run out of town the better.

Fred4Pres said...

Forbes on baseball's most over paid players.

Fred4Pres said...

There are really two world series. There is the world series most of us pay attention to and then there is the owner's world series. The owners' world series deals with the profitability of the teams after expenses. The contenders in this series could care less about winning actual games (well they like the idea of winning but they would like it to be painless and with the lowest cost possible). They recognize that fan popularity is important, but they want to do the bare minimum to maximize profit for the organization.

I will give the late sith lord George Steinbrenner credit, while he wanted the Yankees to be profitable, he also wanted to win and was not afraid to spend money to get there.

Trooper York said...

That Forbes article is the same nonsense that we have been hearing for years. The fact of the matter is that star players put fannies in the seats and their value to the team can not be measured by a slide rule. That's Money Ball. That's bullshit.

Give me a bunch of scrappers who grind it out everyday and I don't care what the stat sheets says.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

I would have voted Zambrano #1.

I don't know who I hate worse, him and the Cubs, or just him.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

And Milton Bradley beats Albert Pujols for having the funniest name in the MLB.

Trooper York said...

If every team had an owner like George they would all compete. But instead they take the money they get from revenue sharing and put it in their pocket. They don't want to spend and their stupid fans are proud of it. Why are you trying to save them money instead of demanding they spend it on players instead of giving it to Bernie Madoff?

Fred4Pres said...

I despise cheapskate owners who expect me to show up but who will not get the pitchers and players to win.

swill_bandit said...

Not many surprises on that list. Though, when you grew up with Albert Belle on your team as I did, they all seem like pussycats in comparison. (Speaking of the Brewers: Belle should probably have faced criminal charges for the vicious battery he committed against the Brewers' Fernando Vina to break up a double play.)

Show me a nice guy and I show you a loser.

If the Detroit Tigers can carry their astonishing tear over the last 50 or so games into October, one of the nicest guys in baseball might be winning the World Series: Victor Martinez.

Jimmy said...

Somebody needs to explain where Fielder is going for his payday. Yankees aren't happening and I doubt the Red Sox will pay the money he wants for a DH. The Mets are struggling and the Cubs are useless. Philly is not an option.

swill_bandit said...

I will give the late sith lord George Steinbrenner credit, while he wanted the Yankees to be profitable, he also wanted to win and was not afraid to spend money to get there.

Yeah, well, the Yankees missed the playoffs one season in the last decade and responded by spending another zillion dollars on top of the highest payroll in the game. The way things are set up in baseball, most teams can't do that.

Furthermore, it was no surprise that the Yankees have had more players on performance enhancing drugs than anyone else. There have been so many roiders on that team I have to conclude that the organization approved of it. For example, Jason Giambi was pretty much openly roiding up during the 2005 season, and Steinbrenner and Torre didn't mind. Hey, it's what got 'em to the playoffs that season.

The Yankees can freely spend while still making a big profit. The idea that some owners are supposed to go deep into the red in order to win is pretty ridiculous. Smaller market teams have no choice but to have cyclical rebuilding plans. Of course, there are some small market teams that can't figure out how to put together a good rebuild plan (Pirates), and there are some big money teams that can't figure out how to spend all their money well (Cubs).

NYTNewYorker said...

"...would never kill or harm during a massacre."

hehe....

Browndog said...

Trooper York said...

Who is going to be the Yankee's catcher for the next fifteen years!


Well, if the Skankee's stay true to form, they'll probably steal Alex Avila from us.

Oh, and you're welcome for Granderson.

Can't wait for your spanking in the ALDS.

SunnyJ said...

I see more toughness than meaness in this bunch.

Zambrano defintiely number 1...psycho mean son of a bitch...a term I hate to use now, as it's become a badge of honor for Tea Party members ala Jimmy the Hoffa and Barck the O'Bama.

Pujoles is pretty darn close to being the best all around player I've seen in awhile. He is exemplary in his personal life and support of his home community. Mean, nah that's just lost in translation.

What was Prince thinking? What he was saying. That's not news, no surprise and cherry picked out of his entire interview where he talks about the great experience this has been and going 1-2 with Braun. He is more pragmatic than pot stirring here. Also, I think making sure he is not, and I repeat not setting Milwaukee up the way Cleveland got hammered by a basketball player that shall rightfully go unnamed out of contempt by this writer.

David said...

They are both thinking: "Man, we are going to look silly if we blow this thing now."

All the Brewers are thinking that, it seems.

Carol_Herman said...

Trooper York, go stick a baseball up your ass. Or, even better, the bat!

Since I love Michael Lewis' writing ... I read MONEYBALL. I think when I finished it, I gave it to my son.

He's also a Michael Lewis fan, now!

And, Michael Lewis' latest is an article in Vanity Fair. About the german's. And, their "tuchis love." They just can't leave shit, alone.

He does tell an interesting story, though. How the german's steered clear of our "bubble." Real estate there didn't move up even a notch. But their bankers in Dusseldorf became the idiots Wall Street sold all those sub-prime mortgages to. They couldn't stop buying that shit, even after our bubble burst. Now? Believe it or not, those bankers don't want to cope with losses.

I'm waiting for the EURO to die.

I don't follow baseball. I didn't see the BLIND SIDE, either. Because I rarely go to the movies.

I did see the King's Speech!

And, I can't wait for Meryl Streep's THE IRON LADY!

Moneyball, meanwhile, is one hoot of a story. Because it's sets statistics back when it comes to evaluating players.

Now, if you worked in a college admissions office? The SAT scores are about as worthless.

phx said...

Baseball's most *evil* players.

phx said...

Musarschnell won the MVP and followed it up with the MEP award.

Fred4Pres said...

Of course, there are some small market teams that can't figure out how to put together a good rebuild plan (Pirates), and there are some big money teams that can't figure out how to spend all their money well (Cubs).


Oh yeah. Don't get me going about how much money the Mets have wasted (although unlike the Cubs at least they have won in the last 100 years). And there are some teams that make lots of money who do not even try to win (Mariners). Ichiro should get on plate one day, raise up a wakizashi sword instead of his bat, and then commit sepuku to protest how he wasted his career with hardly any playoff oportunities with an oranization that had no intention of winning.

phx said...

I don't even wanna think about Orlando Cepeda's dark side.

Titus said...

I never watched the Brewers because Milwaukee is a third tier city and The Brewers are totally Minor League.

But I did watch them with my parents when I was home and Ryan Braun is totally hot. His eyes are dreamy.

Pastafarian said...

When guys like noted metrosexual A-Rod, and all-around nice guy Winnie the Pujols, make a sport's meanest list, that must be a pretty wimpy sport.

When do the Red Wings start playing?

Kevin Walsh said...

"Nice guys finish last." --Leo Durocher

MadisonMan said...

Why reward boorish behavior by publicizing it? I'm assuming SI isn't wagging their finger, so to speak, at these guys.

Chip S. said...

Well, at least Carol Herman knows that Moneyball wasn't written by Billy Beane, so her analysis of it is better than Joe Morgan's.

By thatmuch.

Trooper York said...

Carol Herman knows about as much about baseball as she knows about brevity being the soul of wit.

Trooper York said...

She is the Rube Waddell of this blog.

You can look it up.

Carol_Herman said...

I don't care about baseball!

When I was a kid, and my dad turned on a baseball game, I got a headache.

I thought all you did at a baseball game was watch the grass grow!

I read MONEYBALL because it was written by Michael Lewis. If he wrote it, I've read it.

I'm not a fan of football, either. (Though I think it's great if a kid plays in a band, because then he's participating in a popular program in high school.)

Carol_Herman said...

Jimmy Breslin just wrote a wonderful book about Rickey Branch.

Rickey Branch was the baseball manager for the Brooklyn Dodgers, back when he signed Jackie Robinson to play. Followed very quickly by Roy Campenella.

Who was Rickey Branch? The manager who broke the color barrier in baseball.

Who was Jackie Robinson? Well, you could say he was a Black fella. But his accomplishments were that he could run. And, he could hit!

Trooper York said...

Rickey Branch?

RICKEY BRANCH!

RICKEY FUCKIN' BRANCH!

GOOG GOD ALMIGHTY YOU IGNORANT SLUT!

Trooper York said...

Sorry I got so upset I started to stutter.

Fred4Pres said...

Carol Herman:

Don't want no money, Trooper...jus'
a place -- a roof over m' head...a
little grub...a bunk to sleep in...
an' a rockin' chair by the fire...
my own rockin' chair by a fire...

Trooper York said...

Luck is the residue of design.
(Branch Rickey).

Smuck is my residue online.
(Carol Herman)

Fred4Pres said...

TROOPER YORK:

Carol you ignorant slut...try to remember!...You were in Scar's camp...

CAROL HERMAN:

Ay-eh...Made out I was crazy...(She giggles foolishly)
Ate dirt...chewed grass...I fooled
'em, Trooper!...an' I got away...

Clyde said...

Milton Bradley has been out of baseball for a couple of months, since the M's released him. It's too bad, because he had some talent at one point, but he was carrying a chip on his shoulder the size of a redwood. The fact that a guy who has been out of the game for a couple of months ends up at #3 on the list is telling about what kind of clubhouse poison he was.

Clyde said...

"Rickey Branch"?!?!

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Carol!

I just did a literal face-palm when I read that.

Curious George said...

"Trooper York said...
Money ball is a bunch of bullshit.
The only time the A's won was when they had a bunch of juiced up home run hitters. They haven't won jack."

For all your bitching about Carol, you really need to get your facts right too. First, Billy Bean's approach to picking players as a scout, and later building a team as the GM, was not driven by his belief of what would make the best possible team, but would make the best possible team with the financial contraints of the new owner of the A's. This he most assuredly did.

The A's from 1990 on have had much success with a very low payroll. They won the pennant in 90, Bean's first year as a scout (although not much due to him I'm sure) but won five division titles since then and almost always had competitive teams.

If you want to see a team under achieving...well look no further than your Yankees.

ndspinelli said...

Gee..Carol "Ditzy" Herman, thanks for talking out of your boney, wrinkled, ass about something you don't know fucking shit about. You just couldn't help yourself..you broke the contract.

Farnsworth belongs up higher.he's not just nasty on the mound, he's mean and throws real hard! A mean pitcher has a bullet in his hand.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Definitely agree that AJ Pierzynski is the meanest. But Chase Utley at #2 ahead of the irascible Milton Bradley at #3???

Who knew. I wonder what standard of 'mean' was used...mean in the 'mean' sense or mean in the 'hard to play ball against' sense? Those are 2 totally different things.

I know many guys that are tooth-and-nail competitors on the diamond and sweethearts off the field.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Just read Clydes' and ndspinellis' responses to the seemingly endless bloviator Carol Herman.

Heh.

Methinks Ms. Herman simply tries too hard.

J said...

"Trooper York said...
Money ball is a bunch of bullshit.
The only time the A's won was when they had a bunch of juiced up home run hitters. They haven't won jack."


York's usual macho blather-- 89 A's were a great team. Not just the hitting--pitching as well--Eck. Juiced up ? So was every body

E.M. Davis said...

Moneyball and the theories behind it (on base percentage, working counts, etc. etc.) revolutionized the game of baseball. (Along with Bill James.) Beane and company found market efficiencies other teams weren't exploiting.

Billy Beane (CAROL PAY ATTENTION) didn't think statistics were crap at all.

Is Beane overrated? Certainly, but he basically stole Dan Haren from the Cardinals and Gio Gonzalez from the White Sox.

Now, all teams generally use tactics from Moneyball, so the edge is completely gone.

And Bill James works for the fucking Red Sox.

E.M. Davis said...

was not driven by his belief of what would make the best possible team, but would make the best possible team with the financial constraints of the new owner of the A's. This he most assuredly did.

The Cleveland Indians were one of the first teams to begin locking up young players to longer-term, team-friendly contracts before their arbitration years. I wish it would work out a little better.

E.M. Davis said...

So, too, were the players who bunted. Because that's a "scene stealer." And, not a team player.


More bullshit from Pee Wee Herman.

Bunting has been proven (via statistics, Carol) to be mostly detrimental to scoring.

A runner on first with no outs is more likely to score than a runner on second with one out.

Henry said...

Please, everyone, do not rely on Carol_Herman's Cliff Notes version of Moneyball when studying for the test. You will fail.

I woud have voted for Ty Cobb as #1. Even though he's dead.

If you click around to the list of smartest major league players you will see some overlap. Maybe being mean is smart.

Back to Moneyball. Every year various analysts put out a cost-per-win ranking for MLB teams. Oakland usually does pretty well.

E.M. Davis said...

I woud have voted for Ty Cobb as #1. Even though he's dead.

I'd imagine none of the truly meanest players have played in this century.

Of course, I think the list is of current players, but if it is — what the hell are Bradley and Zambrano doing on the list?

lemondog said...

Don't pay much attention to sports, other than I know Chase Utely is an animal lover, so his inclusion is an obvious error, and the guy down the street said Alex Rodrigues has a contract (his 2nd such) for $300 million.

What does 'mean' mean? Physically vicious, verbally nasty?

Who did the 15..errr...14 meanest vote for?

Fred4Pres said...

Carol Herman says: Thank you kindly for coming this way, you make me happy on this special day...

Leland said...

I missed out on most of the Trooper/Carol debate in a timely fashion, but I do want to mention a few things.

Moneyball is a well written book, and Michael Lewis is great at spinning a yarn. But Moneyball really does only touch upon the very brief success of the Oakland A's. Much of what was touted hasn't panned out elsewhere. Billy Beane is still at Oakland with a .453 record this year. His former associate Paul DePodesta is at the NY Mets with a .473 record.

The best that can be said about Moneyball is that some of the basic game strategies work, which really has nothing to do with the Money part of Moneyball. The best example is the Boston Red Soxs. They lead the league in walks. They teach their batters to go long in the count, which wears out pitchers and gives batters more views at pitches.

And though I can't point to a great example without more research, I do agree that the sacrifice (bunt or fly) is a dumb strategy. Even assuming you do it with no outs, you still need another clean hit to get a runner home. I will except situations in which the runner is already at third, with less than 2 outs.

And Brad Pitt will ruin the movie.

sorepaw said...

The list looks bogus to me.

Mark Teixeira had no reputation for meanness when he played for Atlanta. Could it be New York that brought it out in him?

And not even Albert Belle was as mean as Ty Cobb.

Rube Waddell's manager is supposed to have said that Rube had a 2 million dollar body and 2 cent head.

sorepaw said...

*a* 2 cent head

Phil 3:14 said...

Dbacks just celebrated the 10th anniversary of their '01 World Series win (OVER THE YANKEES!!!).

I mention this because it could not have happened with the fierce pitching by the archetypal "mean" player, Randy Johnson.

(And yes, Troop, he sucked with the Yanks. Deal with it!)

Trooper York said...

My team under achieving?

When was the last time the Yankees won the world series and when was the last time the a's won?

Money ball is bullshit. The twins do it without getting a tongue bath from the likes of George Will and the rest of the douches who pretend to love the game.

Billy Beaneaters is a fraud just like Brad Pitt.

Trooper York said...

Cost per win ratio don't mean squat.

Winning all that counts. You have to spend whatever it takes.

Everything else is just excuses and bullshit.

jimh said...

I hate the Cardinals. Hate 'em. But I don't understand the inclusion of Pujols and Carpenter on the list. Pujols has a reputation for being a very decent guy. As as for Carpenter, being a whiner doesn't make you mean.

E.M. Davis said...

Winning all that counts. You have to spend whatever it takes.

Until the next year, when you have nothing to spend.

Troop, I love you, but your Jackass, er, Yankee loving had clouded your mind as to the problem with MLB's revenue system.

E.M. Davis said...

The twins do it without getting a tongue bath from the likes of George Will and the rest of the douches who pretend to love the game.

The Twins did it, but check out their record this year. That horrible Mauer contract will be an albatross around their necks for years to come.

Fred4Pres said...

SNL had Jeter on to discuss baseball issues:

Tina Fey: Now it's time for an old favorite here at "Weekend Update" - "Point/Counterpoint". Here to debate tonight are Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter and Boston Red Sox fan Seth Meyers. Tonight's topic on "Point/Counterpoint": "Derek Jeter Sucks" - "No, I Don't". Derek, why don't we start with you.

Derek Jeter: Thanks, Tina. I know my friend Seth Meyers here is a Red Sox fan, and that's great. The fans really are what keep Major League baseball going. But I hope Seth can see that I play hard all the time, and I always do my best for the team.

Tina Fey: Seth, Counterpoint?

Seth Meyers: YOU SUCK!

Tina Fey: Seth, you still have, like, thirty seconds.

Seth Meyers: I'll elaborate. Jeter, you suck in three very specific ways. So Hard, So Bad, and Wicked Bad.



I think that about sums it up.

Fred4Pres said...

Fans who stay after Yankee games to sing "New York New York"

Eric Cartman said it best. "You're a fucking faggot, dude".There are a million things to do in New York at all times of the night. Pick one that doesn't involve you looking like a yuppie idiot. Remember when they had the world's largest Macarena in Yankee Stadium? Something about those hallowed walls makes you want to shake your butt to techno music. So does being in a gay club.

Trooper York said...

E.M. Davis said...
Until the next year, when you have nothing to spend.
Troop, I love you, but your Jackass, er, Yankee loving had clouded your mind as to the problem with MLB's revenue system."

I love you too E.M. but I have to disagree with you brother.

There is always more money to spend you just have to want to spend it.

Good example for you is the Brewers and Prince Fielder. Home grown guy. Big star. Fan favorite. They have to spend what it takes to keep him. Now the Yankees and the Red Sox don't want him so that is a big advantage to them. They should have wrapped him up already.

I don't believe in welfare or affirmative action. Especially in baseball.

Trooper York said...

By the way, I was there for Macerana night. It was a lot of fun. There was a rain delay and everybody was drunk out of their minds.

It was a lot of fun.

Trooper York said...

I remember one year they had concerts after the games. It was before we got good again in 1995.

They had a bunch of bands. Charlie Daniels. The Beach Boys.

And this new girl who was just starting out.

Gloria Estefan and the Miami Sound Machine.

All these hot little Dominican chicks came down to our section in their halter tops and white short shorts.

Yeah there was a lot of places I would rather be than singing along.

Right.