September 28, 2011

No criminal misconduct by the Waukesha County Clerk in the WI Supreme Court election.

Law broken, but not willfully.

Sorry if this seems like inane trivia to most of you out there in the land of not-Madison. It's a big deal around here.

74 comments:

Fred4Pres said...

Weeee

Weeping and nashing of teeth in Madison by certain protestors?

Christy said...

"Law broken, but not willfully."

Tell that to Gibson Guitar and all the employees threatened by Feds in flak jackets pointing weapons.

Maguro said...

Insert unfunny garage mahal comment about finding votes on Kathy's computer here.

Dose of Sanity said...

No criminal misconduct.

Is that a civil lawsuit I smell? I wonder what the injury would be?

:-p

(I kid, I kid)

cryptical said...

The Dems are just butthurt because they underestimated the number of extra votes they had to fake up to get the win.

It's a lot harder a day later to come up with 7000 votes than it is 15 minutes after the poll closes.

ndspinelli said...

Can't wait for Carol "Ditzy" Hermans polemic.

SteveR said...

Regardless, there will be many who think it was stolen, in spite of the confirmation and how the voting totals, as they were being put forward, indicated something significant was missing. Something that most assurdely would help Prosser.

Brennan said...

Swiss law now! If the citizens cannot understand the law, it can't be a law.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

I was kind of hoping she had done it willfully. What a perfect way to expose the Democrats' propensity for ginning up votes. They thought they had stolen it fair and square, and here she comes up with another 7.000 (legitimate) votes!

Dustin said...

Yeah, I support the idea of large GOP districts holding their vote count as long as possible, so the democrats either don't cheat enough, or are forced to cheat so blatantly they are caught.

It's especially cool if the people not doing the counting do it, because then it's difficult to convey this as GOP cheating.

I take it this was fortunate by accident. But I like the concept.

MadisonMan said...

So you can break the law, but if it's not done willfully, it's not really broken?

Who wrote that law? A politician?

Leland said...

And just yesterday morning over at Glenn's Instapundit, I was reading about the overcriminalization of laws that are starting to remove the criminal intent bar. I guess that's not a problem in Wisconsin.

lewsar said...

Who wrote that law? A politician?

a rhetorical question, surely?

and hasn't "intent" been an issue for centuries?

Dose of Sanity said...

@ lewser

Depends on the crime. See trespassing, among others.

Calypso Facto said...

So you can break the law, but if it's not done willfully, it's not really broken?

Intent, or mens rea, has a long history of being a necessary element for many crimes. The Wall Street Journal recently wrote about the lowering of that threshold to trap more and more "accidental" violators. (May be behind firewall...sorry.)

Seven Machos said...

So you can break the law, but if it's not done willfully, it's not really broken?

Madison -- Sometimes, I am tremendously surprised at you. Like now.

Yes, of course. A crime requires a bad act and a bad intent. Everyone knows this. Everyone.

This is why, for example, there is manslaughter as opposed to murder, and why you didn't shoplift if you accidentally take something out of a store, and why it's not battery if you are talking with your hands and punch somebody in the head, and on and on.

Come on, dude. Up your game. A lot.

edutcher said...

"Law broken, but not willfully."

Try that next time you're caught drunk driving or berating your wife (or husband, as the case may be).

As they once said in the 2nd, 6th, and 7th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry Regiments, "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?".

MadisonMan said...

I may (or may not) have read willfully to mean knowing it was against the law.

Steve Martin's I forgot sketch (You can be a millionaire and never pay taxes!) leaps to mind.

Kit said...

"shall keep clerk's office open to receive reports from ward inspectors and shall post all returns" Law says she must report results by ward. She didn't,...and not because of any mistake. The odd voting totals flowed out of her decisions on how she wanted to report the results. If she had reported, according to statute, none of this would have happened.

Seven Machos said...

Steve Martin's I forgot sketch (You can be a millionaire and never pay taxes!) leaps to mind.

Madison -- Now you are conflating evidentiary issues with the substance of the law.

Stick to the humanities I guess, dude.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

So if she broke the law, I assume it follows that every other county that made a mistake and later had to post a correction, even by just a single vote, also broke the law.

G Joubert said...

Not a Wisconsinite, but this blog keeps me informed about politics there. This was an incidental error by the clerk which had zero effects on the integrity or outcome of the election. No harm, no foul, as they say in the NBA. Hard to see a crime or a civil claim here.

5ac81c9e-a3ec-11e0-ad71-000bcdcb8a73 said...

Are the same people who are upset about this "crime" (involving only the time to report results, and not voter fraud or vote-counting), because of the suspicions aroused, the same people who oppose photo i.d. requirements for voters?

MadisonMan said...

Seven, I have only proven that IANAL.

clint said...

Is this at all surprising?

garage mahal said...

I was hoping the John Doe Walker corruption probe might have ensnared Nickolaus' laptop, instead of the GAB handling the inquiry. Doesn't sound like it though. That's too bad.

Curious George said...

"The state Government Accountability Board said Wednesday it found probable cause to believe that Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus violated the state law requiring county clerks to post all returns on election nighta, but concluded that the violation in the April election was not willful and therefore did not constitute criminal misconduct."

Shorter version: "GAB conforms what we already knew months ago."

Yawn.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
I was hoping the John Doe Walker corruption probe might have ensnared Nickolaus' laptop, instead of the GAB handling the inquiry. Doesn't sound like it though. That's too bad."

Hey garage, what is the next straw you will be grasping for when this, like the fall elections, the protests, the lawsuits, the Supreme Court race, the Supreme Court recount, the recalls, and the Prosser "choking", fails to pan out?

Care to give us a coming attraction? Or do we have to wait til you read your lefty blogs?

Michael said...

Madison Man: "So you can break the law, but if it's not done willfully, it's not really broken?

Who wrote that law? A politician?"

There was an interesting article in yesterday's WSJ on exactly this issue. A guy made the mistake of not asking the buyer of a product he was lawfully selling if the buyer was a lawful buyer. He was not and the seller was fined.

Intent is a concept that has carried us a long way in the right direction.

Now we have literally thousands of new laws every year and a book has been written on how you and I likely commit felonies with regularity.

garage mahal said...

Care to give us a coming attraction? Or do we have to wait til you read your lefty blogs?

Coming? It's already happening. Read any of the state newspaper editorial boards lately? It's not everyday your top lieutenants get paid visits by the FBI with battering rams and are given grants of immunity.

traditionalguy said...

Thou shalt not be less than perfect!

Try that one on a Jury, you stupid legalists always searching for human sacrifices to satisfy your blood lust.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...

Coming? It's already happening. Read any of the state newspaper editorial boards lately? It's not everyday your top lieutenants get paid visits by the FBI with battering rams and are given grants of immunity."

You might want to actually read what I posted. I said what's next when this Walker probe doesn't pan out?

garage mahal said...

I said what's next when this Walker probe doesn't pan out?

What makes you think it isn't? Besides wishing.

Scott M said...

If you haven't noticed, Garage isn't much for answering straight questions with anything but further questions.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
I said what's next when this Walker probe doesn't pan out?

What makes you think it isn't? Besides wishing."

Since you keep posting on this, what do you think will come of it?

garage mahal said...

I answered. CG assumed it "wouldn't pan out". I do.

PatCA said...

But they sure put that evil woman through the wringer, so all is well is Prog Land.

Maguro said...

The big "blog commenting on company time" scandal is going to pan out?

Ummm...OK. If you say so.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
I answered. CG assumed it "wouldn't pan out". I do."

Of course you do. Hence the multitude of OT posts. But what does "pan out" mean to you? What is the end result?

Joanna said...

CG assumed it "wouldn't pan out". I do.

GM, what do you think will pan out? What specific thing do you think will be the final result of this Walker probe?
What. Specific. Thing.

If you think there will be multiple results, that's fine. Please list them separately and numerically (and not in a vague paragraph of waaaaah.)

PaulV said...

Count all the vote and it was counted

Carol_Herman said...

Next time the democraps will just steal by a wider margin.

And, the republicans would do well to pick someone better than David Prosser ... Or Crooks. Or Ziegler. Or Bradley. And, definitely NO ONE, EVER AGAIN, in a grandma mask!

That the government now criminalizes everything? You bet.

But maybe there would have been a downside in going after Kathy ... since it would have brought an attorney on the scene ... who'd have turned the prosecutor's life into a pure fiasco.

As to big deals, at least Prosser had the brains to get his swearing-in done in or about July 26th.

And, of course, there was no "choke-hold."

Wisconsin's black eye, though, is gonna take time to heal.

garage mahal said...

But what does "pan out" mean to you? What is the end result?

Public outcry for his removal, at miminum. i.e. recall. Elected Republicans in this state are craven, but I don't think most conservatives in the state are. There will likely be evidence of corruption involving Walker, his own spokesman was granted immunity, and I don't believe people in Wisc go for that kind of crap. And Wisconsin is a dirty state right now.

Walker now wants control over the non-partisan GAB, making policies like adding of student ID stickers [which the GAB approved], and the rules of recalling of Walker himself, subject to a veto pen.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
It's not everyday your top lieutenants get paid visits by the FBI with battering rams and are given grants of immunity."

Also, please name said "top lieutenants" that were visited "by the FBI with battering rams" and given "grants of immunity".

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
But what does "pan out" mean to you? What is the end result?

Public outcry for his removal, at miminum. i.e. recall. Elected Republicans in this state are craven, but I don't think most conservatives in the state are. There will likely be evidence of corruption involving Walker, his own spokesman was granted immunity, and I don't believe people in Wisc go for that kind of crap. And Wisconsin is a dirty state right now.

Walker now wants control over the non-partisan GAB, making policies like adding of student ID stickers [which the GAB approved], and the rules of recalling of Walker himself, subject to a veto pen."

So we have a murky one sentence description of what yo uthink is the outcome, followed by an editorial. Let's focus on your prediction of the outcome:

"Public outcry for his removal, at miminum. i.e. recall."

OMGF, some people in the state will want him to be recalled!!11!

Really, that's all you got?

LOL

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
But what does "pan out" mean to you? What is the end result?

Public outcry for his removal, at miminum. i.e. recall."

So breaking it down, we're really just talking about a couple more lame song parodies by the noon time singers at the Capitol.

garage mahal said...

Also, please name said "top lieutenants" that were visited "by the FBI with battering rams

Cindy Archer.


and given "grants of immunity".


Cullen Werwie.

You could have googled this first?

AJ Lynch said...

Repubs think their best chance to win an election is when the only voters are eligible voters. For some reason, Dems think this is unfair & unreasonable.

Anthony said...

It's only inane trivia because Wisconsin's left is unable to see the blindingly obvious.

Reading the report, it says:

7.60 County canvass. (1) KEEP OFFICE OPEN. On election night the county clerk shall keep the clerk's office open to receive reports from the ward inspectors and shall post all returns.

The Government Accountaþility Board takes the position that the law requires separate
reporting of each municipality independently. The G.A.B.'s position is that county clerks who
receive returns by ward or reporting unit should post the results by ward or reporting unit.

****

So what authority does the GAB have to make that interpretation? Is there any case law which requires that? Or did they just decide that since it seems the reasonable way to do things, that must be what the statute means, regardless of the wording of the statute?

Curious George said...

" garage mahal said...
Also, please name said "top lieutenants" that were visited "by the FBI with battering rams

Cindy Archer.


and given "grants of immunity".

Cullen Werwie.

You could have googled this first?"

I didn't need to google, I was aware of both of these. You used plural "top lieutenants" and the conjuction "and" so there must be multiple "top lieutenants" that have been granted immunity and have had the FBI use battering rams. So far you have zero. Who are they?

garage mahal said...

So what authority does the GAB have to make that interpretation?

They decide election law in the state.

garage mahal said...

So far you have zero. Who are they?

I should have known better.

Curious George said...

" garage mahal said...
So far you have zero. Who are they?

I should have known better."

Yes, you shuld have known better to run your bulsshit by me. It's not like the first time I've called you on something.

Ok, so we now know this statement "It's not everyday your top lieutenants get paid visits by the FBI with battering rams and are given grants of immunity." is false. Maybe you meant "or" instead of "and". But you clearly indicated the plural of both "visits" and "grants". So you really just threw out a bullshit statement that you couldn't back up in an attempt to give the impression that a bunch of this stuff has happened...which clearly isn't the case.

One person has been granted immunity....back in April. One person has been raided....a few weeks ago.

A) What are these people accused of?
B)Are they accused of anything? C)If not, who is the real target? D) What did the real target do?
Let me help you out with an honest answer:

A) You don't know.
B) You don't know
C) You don't know.
D) You don't know.

garage mahal said...

One person has been granted immunity....back in April. One person has been raided....a few weeks ago.

Actually three people have been granted immunity, and at least three people had their computers seized as part of the investigation.

Jesus Christ. What in the hell are you even disputing anyway?

Curious George said...

" garage mahal said...
Actually three people have been granted immunity, and at least three people had their computers seized as part of the investigation."

Nice try. Only one "top lieutenant" of each. Not three of either category. What I am disputing is your bullshit, as usual. You post about this subject off topic consistently, and it's always bullshit.

garage mahal said...

What I am disputing is your bullshit, as usual

You would like me to not bring up John Doe Walker. I can understand that.

Mitochondri-Allie said...

John Hiller , Walker's campaign treasurer was let go on Monday.Hiller was with Walker for 10 years.Strange, no?

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
What I am disputing is your bullshit, as usual

You would like me to not bring up John Doe Walker. I can understand that."

Bring it up all you want. Knock yourself out.

Curious George said...

"Mitochondri-Allie said...
John Hiller , Walker's campaign treasurer was let go on Monday.Hiller was with Walker for 10 years.Strange, no?"

Let go? From what I've read he left. Seems you have the same affliction as garage.

Hiller also recently organized an event for Romney. Maybe he's going to be part of his campaign.

Mitochondri-Allie said...

CG, perhaps you are right. Time will tell.

Mitochondri-Allie said...

Correction, Hiller left the walker Campaign as Treasurer in May, Cullen Werwie was given immunity in April. Purely coincidence I'm sure.

Joanna said...

@4:12
GM, what do you think will pan out? What specific thing do you think will be the final result of this Walker probe?
What. Specific. Thing.

If you think there will be multiple results, that's fine. Please list them separately and numerically (and not in a vague paragraph of waaaaah.)


A list, please. Itemized, separate, specific predictions of what will "pan out".

Note: If something is already happening (i.e. talk about recalling Walker) that, by definition, would be ineligible for a list of what is going to happen later, of what will "pan out".

Joanna said...

wv: prove

heh

roesch-voltaire said...

Garage it is interesting to see you argue with Curious about "top" aid etc, but of course it is unusual for a John Doe investigation to grant immunity to people so close to Walker-- top aid or not. While Curious seems to hope this investigation might not pan out, I would guess that someone will take the the fall before spring.

garage mahal said...

A list, please. Itemized, separate, specific predictions of what will "pan out".

C.G. is the one that brought up "pan out". Ask him what it means, like I did. Chisholm and his prosecutors have a real bi-partisan zeal for cracking down hard on politicking.

TCB-n-a-Flash said...

So making a mistake in reporting election results to the Associated Press is 'against the law'?? But..leaving a State to deny a legislative quorum isn't? Handing out false 'sick' notes isn't? Bearing false witness against a fellow Supreme court justice isn't? And people pay tens of thousands of dollars to learn this legal morality at the University of Wisconsin.

TCB-n-a-Flash said...

"The principle of free speech is no new doctrine born of the Constitution of the United States. It is a heritage of English-speaking peoples, which has been won by incalculable sacrifice, and which they must preserve so long as they hope to live as free men." - Robert LaFollette Sr.

What is sad. And this is off topic, is the UW teaches its students to shout down those that disagree with their group think. This includes those followers that use him as a profile pic.

gregq said...

Three cheers for the county clerk whose incorrect reporting on election night kept the Madison "vote counters" from creating enough votes to get Kloppenberg over the top, and for giving the lefties two days to shoot off their mouths about not asking for recounts, before they discovered they were the ones who needed one.

Face it, that's what has the lefties so bent out of shape. It's not that they seriously believe that she engaged in vote fraud, it's that they realize, in their hearts of hearts, that she kept left wing vote fraud from stealing the election.

Look, there's only one real reason to oppose voter ID laws: because you want vote fraud, and the laws make it harder to pull of vote fraud. The fact that Democrats consistently oppose voter ID laws whenever and wherever they're brought up tells anyone who's paying attention that the Democrats are the party of vote fraud.

Beldar said...

Prof. A wrote, "Sorry if this seems like inane trivia to most of you out there in the land of not-Madison."

What it seems, actually, is obvious and overdue.

Thanks for your continuing reports from the barricades, Professor Althouse. They are indeed of interest to many of us who live far from Waukesha County.

Beldar said...

A major theme of Robert Caro's multi-volume (and still unfinished) biography of Lyndon Johnson is the political education he received at the hands of polished Texas masters in the 1930s and 1940s. Legendary Texas politician Coke R. Stephenson schooled LBJ in the art of holding back enough reports so that the appropriate number of dead men could vote in alphabetical order. Soon enough, LBJ used that same art to snag his seat in the U.S. Senate by so close a margin that he acquired the (mocking) name "Landslide Lyndon."

These tricks are older than anyone reading this blog, methinks. (Or anyone reading.)

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