In her statement to the press, Bialek said that she had been fired at the association after about a year working for the group’s educational foundation in its Chicago office. She said she sought Mr. Cain’s help to find other employment during a trip to Washington about a month after he left the group.And now we have specific details alleged.
During that trip, she said Mr. Cain had secretly upgraded her hotel room before drinks and dinner that the two had to discuss possible future employment. She said that after dinner, he put his hand on her leg and ran it under her skirt and pulled her head toward his crotch.
“I was surprised and shocked and I said, what are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend,” Ms. Bialek recalled saying. “This is not what I came here for.”
“You want a job, right?” she said Mr. Cain responded. “I asked him to stop and he did.”
ADDED: 459 comments! Good lord! Well, I haven't read them. I don't know what issues you've raised, but I want to assert, firmly, that I have never been inconsistent on the subject of these allegations about Herman Cain. My posts have always been about journalistic ethics and questions of proof and fairness.
In addition, I have been consistent about sexual harassment since long before I began this blog, going back to the Clarence Thomas hearings and through the entire Bill Clinton fiasco. I have not been politically partisan, and I have not sacrificed principles of fairness and due process. If you think I have, I challenge you to challenge me.
Posts
647 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 647 Newer› Newest»Allie's Apple said...
Women should not have to defend themselves from unwanted sexual behavior in the workplace
There were in a car, not the workplace.
11/7/11 4:20 PM
Yes Allen I know, I'm the one that posted on this thread that it took place in a car, I was addressing Shouting Thomas's comment about the WORKPLACE, that I linked to in my comment.
Love continues to whine, "what if it was your daughter?" Simple. I'd lawyer up so fast your head would spin. Cain would be staring down a huge lawsuit. Which is what I'd expect you'd do.
Unless Cain were a democrat. Then you'd buy your daughter a wonderbra and make her get the worlds' best vajazzling job to go with her kneepads.
Crack - "These people have given you nothing - nothing..."
Well, except for the details outlined in today's press conference.
Do you have a hearing problem or are you just dismissing the woman (and of course the other three) as being a liar?
Cain is telling the truth...all of the women are lying?
@lyssa
I didn't mean to say that you were talking about conspiracy theories. I was thinking of some others here when I wrote that. I should know better than to use "you" as an indefinite pronoun. Sorry for being unclear.
Dear Love -- I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt -- and then you state that "it is just like women who are raped" -- really, having a pass made, rejecting it, and leaving is just like rape? I had no idea. You are an idiot.
I agree with the many commenters who have observed that if Ms. Bialek had something to say that wasn't designed to get her a payoff from the New York Post or MSNBC for giving her "exclusive" story, she wouldn't have dressed the way she did (unless she normally dresses that way, in which case -- Herman, tsk, tsk, such bad taste -- and wouldn't have walked to the podium with that publicity seeking piece of sleaze Ms. Allred. Now, go away. You have your version of reality and the real world has its version -- and never the twain shall meet.
Tyrone,
What consequences for cooking what up exactly?
That may be why they got Gloria Allred. The only consequnces for slandering a public figure in this country are to your reputation. And for Gloria Allred, this only adds to hers.
If women have to appeal to male chivalry keep women in the workplace, then maybe women shouldn't be in the workplace.
Oh, please. People should not expect sexual favors from their employees in the workplace; it's as simple as that. It's not an appeal to chivalry to seek out a legal remedy for a person who has wronged you, any more than it is to expect police intervention if you are stolen from or assaulted, or to file a lawsuit if someone damages your property or breaches a contract.
Besides- if it were me, I'd hardly be seeking men's chivalry. I'm a lawyer; I can sue someone without a man's help.
Christopher in MA - Once again: throwing out silly comments to distract from the truth is just a waste of time.
You and I both know exactly what you would do if your wife or daughter came home and told you what this woman said today.
Unless of course, you're just an asshole who doesn't care.
Ok, so Stifler's mom comes to DC to ask the big guy for a personal favor. They go out, have dinner, drive around afterwards.
Sounds like a standard DC tango so far.
What went down at the dinner? Were there sparks? Witty tete-a-tetes? ¿Quien sabe? How many drinks? Who ordered the amaretto aperitif?
The big guy's an alpha. He's not gonna waste time on an extended and ambiguous pas de deux. It's fish or cut bait, chica, what'll it be?
Seems like most normal people don't fly to DC to make a personal grovel for a job favor. We've got standards, and we know the implications and potentials of such an act. There are very few saints in this world, and you don't get to be top dog by being asleep when opportunity knocks.
"Your wife or daughter comes home with the same story...and you would say what?"
I'd say, "Why don't you just forget about it until the guy who hit on you gets into the news 10 or 12 years from now, and a high-profile publicity hound lawyer offers you a press conference."
Okay, so I wouldn't, but it's obvious that somebody did back in '97. Of course, given that the President in those days was a confirmed serial sexual predator, it might not have been such bad advice at the time...
Love said...So if your wife or daughter came home with the same story would you just brush it off...since he "promptly complied with that request" to be driven home?
Here's the thing, asshole. Bialek didn't come home with the story. She didn't by her own admission tell anyone.
So that makes your question rather moronic given the subject under discussion.
Oh, you also appear to be rather ignorant about Gloria Allred's reputation.
Love said...
Am I to believe that if four separate women were to surface, all saying they were sexually harassed by President Obama or any other Democratic holding office, the regular Althouse commenters would all be screaming to high heaven that, until you see actual, undeniable proof...you would all recommend holding off on taking any action?
Yes.
Scott M said...
Simply saying "wife" or "daughter" in your context is meant to cause sympathy toward your point of view.
I think the point is right now most conservatives do not believe this woman's story. But if your wife or daughter were someone who had been sexually harrassed by a politician and didn't come forward for 10 or 15 years you would be supportive - naturally - because you are the husband or father. But the people who support the politician would claim your wife or daughter was a liar. How would you feel?
So, with that in mind, maybe no one should completely dismiss these allegations. Right now I have no idea if any of these allegations are true or not. The fact that there have been 4 allegations does raise eyebrows. But if I supported Cain I would most likely still support him until stronger evidence came out.
If the media wants to uncover the real story here, they only have to follow the money. Allred does not work for free. A third party paid her to pimp Meg Whitman's maid's story. And someone is paying her to stand up there with Bialek.
Love watch out, next thing you know Miss Janie Two Shoes, will ask Althouse to ban you ,lol.
BTW.. Is MoveOn.org planing to come to Cain's rescue? Like they did Clinton?
You would think that the sheer volume of sex scandals would have satisfied the most voracious of titalicious lascivious of appetites..
But Noooo.
Leave my man Cain alone Now!
Cain is the 99 percent.
Cain dont need to viagra!
Cain raised the dead!
Love said: Do YOU or do YOU not believe any of these women?
Not a single one of us, yourself included, has enough of a basis to answer that question in any sort of a reasonable way. We can judge credibility, as things come out, and the plausibilty of the stories, but anyone making a definitive yes or no statement of belief at this point is being foolish.
janetrae "Dear Love -- I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt -- and then you state that "it is just like women who are raped" -- really, having a pass made, rejecting it, and leaving is just like rape? I had no idea. You are an idiot."
First of all, I don't need any benefit of the doubt.
Second; why would you consider someone shoving their hand under your dress and yanking your head down into their crotch as "having a pass made?"
You really believe that? That if you were sitting in a car with a man, and he did that, you would dismiss it as an innocent "pass" being made?
We both know that a crock...and as for my comment relating to rape, it is indeed true...and you know that, too.
Oh, there you are grandma Allie -- fishing around so Love will shove your face towards his/her/its crotch?
Allie's Apple said
"There are plenty of women that would not have just walked away as Bialek did."
What a bullshit 'statement' that is. Assumption, presupposition, bullshit bullshit bullshit.
The dems are doing a great job taking everyone's eye off the ball.
Fiscal instability, a shrinking dollar, high unemployment, amorality rampant.
Congresscritters and the 'president' (LOL) love this.
edutcher
Love said...If Obama accused... you would all recommend holding off on taking any action?
edutcher
Yes.
Thanks for the laugh. Don't lie to us or to yourself like that.
Hey Bender, wait til they start a whisper campaign against your candidate, with anonymous accusers making nonspecific allegations, followed by, tada, Gloria fucking Allred and her trained bimbo/himbo (hey, remember, Perry's GAY, NTTAWWT, and BTW, so's Obama) press conference.
Love,
Here's a suggestion for Mr. Cain: Request a lie detector test for himself and all parties involved.
Would that be okay with regulars here?
No - he doesn't have to prove he's innocent, you have to prove he's done something. You've got it backwards.
That's actually a perfect example of how you miss the point in debates I've witnessed. You've got it backwards.
You don't even spread Love,...
Love - "you and I know exactly what you'd do."
Yes. Because I said I'd sue, you illiterate jackass. Or are you trying to claim I'd ignore it because Cain's a republican? Thanks for doubling down on stupid.
Christ, garbage is a Rhodes scholar compared to you.
Until Ms. Allred interjected herself, I was unsure what to make of this media brouhaha.
Now I know conclusively. Thanks Gloria!
Love said: the regular Althouse commenters would all be screaming to high heaven that, until you see actual, undeniable proof...you would all recommend holding off on taking any action?
Quite a lot of us were skeptical when the Gore accusations came down, IIRC. I know I was.
lyssalovelyredhead "Not a single one of us, yourself included, has enough of a basis to answer that question in any sort of a reasonable way."
That is not true.
I listened to the woman today and I believe her. (I also attach quite a bit of credence to the fact that there are three other women who have evidently told similar stories.)
If you don't, that's your prerogative.
But WHY don't you believe the woman today or the others? Two of the others have already been paid off, and the other two aren't filing lawsuits.
Now look what you've gone and done Janie Two Shoes, you've got women assaulting each other, good job. The men here are no doubt glad to have such a fine specimen of a conservative woman representing them.
Richard - So when Allred represented the Brown family in the O.J. lawsuit or the woman versus Roman Polanski and others...you were also "conclusively" certain of...what?
Were you rooting for O.J.? How about Roman?
As odious as the publicity and money-grubbing Allred is..there is one part of her "shtick" that is true over the years. While sometimes it is making a mountain out of a molehill stuff, her clients are born out on the facts stated..time after time.
It should be noted that Allred's other clients turned out to be telling the truth, publicity seeking or not. she has the good sense not to be made a fool of by her clients, because that would end her cache`.
Allred evidently vets her clients thoroughly before demanding a bank of media cameras to bask in. One Crystal Gayle Mangum would ruin Allreds money grubbing...
"But WHY don't you believe the woman today or the others? Two of the others have already been paid off, and the other two aren't filing lawsuits."
News flash:
Because people lie for money. Even women.
Statute of limitations on any lawsuit, sweet cheeks. I doubt they could sue.
And you all know what's going down here, right? They're trying to get the Reps to cast out Cain. So they can say, see? the Reps are racist! They will always find a way to keep the black man down. Even somebody as well-qualified as Cain, who on credentials alone is the clear rational choice.
This is some kind of ugly. And it's gonna get worse.
wv: hotorudb: Oh come on. There's a psychology and semantics research project in here, how easily not-words can be post-opted to seem prescient.
Christopher in MA - I know what you said, but these women aren't suing anybody.
But if that's the case, asshole, why are you so shocked by the fact that four women have come out with their stories?
What if you didn't know your wife or daughter harassed or molested until years later?
Would you just write if off?
What she has described is not just sexual harassment, it is sexual assault which is a crime.
I mean.. its not like the woman was under anesthetic and Cain was her dentist or something.
Cain was up.. front and center.
He pulled back when the fires where cold.
He made a pass at her. Stopped when she said no. He wasn't her boss, so I don't see how it is sexual harassment. And not answered: Did she get help in getting a job?
She had asked him out, not vice versa. So was she sexually harassing him by asking him out on a date to "discuss" employment, instead of meeting him at his office or asking for a recommendation in a letter like the rest of us?
andinista "They will always find a way to keep the black man down."
What does any of this have to do with race?
Do you know the race of the other three women?
If any of them are black or you saying they're also trying to keep other blacks "down?"
Good grief.
andinista said
"This is some kind of ugly. And it's gonna get worse. "
Agreed!
Dem' Chicago street politics...
The sanitary sewers will be dredged and shared with all.
Jay - The fact that you do not like Allred has nothing to do with the women's stories.
Why do you think it does?
new york said...
What she has described is not just sexual harassment,
Considering they didn't work together and he wasn't her boss, no, no it was not "sexual harassment"
You moron.
Because people lie for money. Even women.
Love said: I know what you said, but these women aren't suing anybody.
There are plenty of ways to make money that don't require suing someone. And have you really never known anyone who just told stories to get attention? I've certainly known my share.
Love said...
Jay - The fact that you do not like Allred has nothing to do with the women's stories.
Dum-Dum,
the fact that you don't like the NY Post has nothing to do with the accuracy of the story you didn't like.
Don't Tread 2012 - So now we're moving on to Chicago?
What the hell does Chicago politics have to do with this??
Your wife or daughter comes home with the same story...and you would say what?
OK I'll play. If my daughter came home with a story like that I would do two things (depending on how old my daughter was....if the age of this grown woman and not a child). She wasn't hurt. She wasn't raped. She was merely insulted. That would be a different story if she were raped etc or if she were a minor child!!
One: I would advise my daughter to not put herself into such a compromising situation in the first place. Use your head. What did you THINK might happen if you sought out this guy, went to a hotel with a him and had drinks and knew that he was making room arrangements for you. " /slap dope. I raised you better than that."
Two: I would also advise my daughter to write down her complaint and address it with the man's employer. The fact that she had already been fired from the company doesn't bode well for you getting any recourse.
I would also advise my daughter to grow up and be more careful and act smarter in the future.
Does Love come from the sort of family where one expects that one's wife or daughter will have no more credibility and trustworthiness than one would presume of any given stranger on the television set?
What a strange world that must be. I get to know the people in my life a little better than that.
She said that after dinner, he put his hand on her leg and ran it under her skirt and pulled her head toward his crotch.
Cain did that in a restaurant?
Still he's no worse than Bill Clinton, Gary Hart, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, Gary Condit,...
When the Demos hold their own feet to the fire, I'll consider their complaints about like behavior by conservatives.
Hagar said...
Tyrone,
What consequences for cooking what up exactly?
If Allred could be shown to have participated in a deliberate lie concocted to ruin the chances of a candidate, Republican or otherwise, she'd be done. No more limelight. She'd rather die.
Under Loves bio it says
Interests
Making people feel good.
See Love.. you talk the talk..
But Cain walked the walk.
This is what Real Men look like!
Love said
"Don't Tread 2012 - So now we're moving on to Chicago?
What the hell does Chicago politics have to do with this??"
Jay said
"Dum-Dum,"
the woman is from Chicago.
Dumb and willfully dumb are different.
The fact that you do not like Allred has nothing to do with the women's stories.
We don't KNOW what the other women's stories ARE.
They are anonymous and hiding behind confidentiality agreements between themselves and the Restaurant Association.
You are making shit up. We don't know WHAT their complaints actually were 10 years ago.
Dude, if you can't see it, there's little hope for you, you're starting far down on the cultural awareness ladder.
So really, that was a deflection attempt, but it won't work, the point is too obvious to be obscured.
Use your head.
DBQ - you might want to rephrase that.
What the hell does Chicago politics have to do with this??
Love is a newcomer.
We need to be patient.. patient but firm.
I don't think it's assault because as soon as she asked him to stop he did. And he drove her right home.
I think it's neither assault nor harassment, but it shows that his self-presentation as an evangelical Christian is inaccurate at best.
So this leaves us with a couple of Mormons and a duck.
I can't think of many lawyers who are as much despised and disrespected as her.
Nancy Grace?
"Provide the names of all the people who feel that way."
Brilliant. You are here arguing with a bunch of people who mostly don't respect her and you are asking for the names of ALL those who don't. You're just being silly now, or still I should say.
Lets not be too hard on Love.
Open up the door and get your feeling hurt.. because a woman needs love, just like you do, dont kid yourself into thinking that she dont..
oh wait, I went off on a song there for a minute.
What she has described is not just sexual harassment, it is sexual assault which is a crime.
11/7/11 4:43 PM
Precisely, for someone to grab your head and pull it toward his crotch while attempting to grope your crotch, is aggressive, not a simple act of flirtation. because he stopped immediately after she said "what are you doing?" doesn't excuse the act itself. AND for WOMEN to pretend it isn't ,is self hating and harmful to their own sex, what if this happened to your daughter as Love asked multiple times.
Don't Tread 2012 - The woman is from Chicago, so this is all now related to Chicago politics?
Are the other women also from Chicago?
The reference is nothing more than silly hit at Obama.
Duh.
Do you know the race of the other three women?
If any of them are black or you saying they're also trying to keep other blacks "down?"
We dont' know jack about the other women because they are anonymous. Big word. Look it up in the dictionary.
We don't know jack about what their settlements were from the Restaurant Association or what their claims were.
I do know that it is routine to make a settlement in these types of cases as a way to get rid of the nuisance factor. Cheaper to just pay the whiner off than to go through a protracted law suit....even one you know you will win. Ask any corporate human resources lawyer. Common.
I place very little credence in anonymous claims by anonymous people.
lyssalovelyredhead, its called quid pro quo. Now, my question is that there are supposedly two corroborating witnesses... but Alred didn't bring them out as "proof" and given her left wing slant, I'm curious as to why.
Dust Bunny - The man in this case was the CEO.
Love - I have better things to do than watch you flail to find any excuse to hammer Cain. I leave you and Allie to continue your mutual masturbation session (which, I will admit, is more entertaining than her "I'm the mother of a valiant warrior! I have absolute moral authority!" schtick).
The left has lowered the harassment bar so much that nothing short of a Cain-stained dress will be proof for me. if your disgusting party didn't have a 150-odd year history of treason, lies and outright lynching, you might get the benefit of the doubt. Now? No. Not now. Not ever.k
GM Roper "but Alred didn't bring them out as "proof" and given her left wing slant, I'm curious as to why."
She presented signed statement from both.
And you can bet that they'll eventually surface.
Love dear,
ONE woman has come forward with A story.
The other is just a lawyer we know nothing about calling press conferences about three unnamed women Not coming forward with three unspecified allegations.
Ok, I'll make it clear. Used to be, guys got lynched for just this sort of accusation (by Democrats wearing white sheets).
The MSM and operatives like Allred are now handing the rope to the Reps, and saying "Well, whatcha gonna do? What're ya waitin' for?".
Just think..
If only Solyndra was a harassed woman.
Use your head.
"DBQ - you might want to rephrase that"
LOL Perhaps you are right.
Use your brains!!
Christopher in MA - When did I "hammer? Cain?
I said I think he did what he is accused of, that the woman I heard today is telling the truth, and in other posts said that I do not think he will be the nominee.
I certainly do not think he is qualified to be President, and will vote for President Obama.
That's pretty plain, so let's not try to put words into my mouth.
Also: if you think he's innocent and will be a fine President, vote for him.
Dust Bunny - The man in this case was the CEO.
So? He works for the Board of Directors. Go to HIS bosses. Negative publicity is never appreciated by the Board.
And you say YOU are a CEO. Ha.
With Cain now immolating, you have Romney, Perry, and Newt as the only real possibilities. (assuming Cain continues to immolate in sex scandal and foreign policy gaffes and his lack of knowledge on a range of matters).
Newt has more baggage than Hillary and trails Obama in polls. Perry is a dumber Texan Dubya.
With Cain's problems, it is now a tough call for Romney...does he now jump into Iowa and try to win it? If he does, and can win, it may save Republicans 3-4 months where the focus in on "Romney and the 7 dwarfs" - and allow the Republicans more time, money, and attention on winning and holding already gained Congressional and State positions.
Romney can win. I want Obama out, I want the economy back, and I'll take anybody Romney nominates to the Supreme Court over anybody Obama nominates, sight unseen.
What else matters?
The presidency is only one branch. If you don't think he's conservative enough - I get it. He's not as conservative as I want either. So vote in conservative Congressmen and Senators, hold him to every campaign promise, and get Congress to hold him to those promises too.
It is also time for Romney to make a case that he has consistently honored commitments he made in business, the Olympics, and promises made to voters when he ran for Governor of Massachusetts - and will do so as President. Without getting locked into pledges that would make leadership and negotiation with Democrats impossible and guarantee another 4 years of gridlock thanks to conservative and liberal mindless partisanship.
Hagar - Two women were paid off, one has stayed out of the limelights and one today made specific charges.
If you think they're all lying, that is your prerogative, but I personally think they're all telling the truth.
And what's with the "Love dear?"
Knuckles dragging?
Nancy Grace?.
That's one for sure, but crazy is different than unprincipled political hack.
Love,
I listened to the woman today and I believe her.
You're hopeless.
and Tyrone,
Allred will not be "done" if this is exposed to be a hoax any more than Anita Hill and the Joe Wilsons are "done."
Bunny - Yeah, that's the way it works.
You bypass the CEO and DEMAND an investigation!!
Get real.
Dust Bunny Queen
In otherwords, blame the victim? Even if she is your daughter?
Truth is you would not brush it off that easily in real life. Few would or should. Hypothetically, we are all strongly wedded to our core principles when they apply to other people. In practice, we always support our own loved ones and then sometimes seek out lawyers.
Truth.
Crack - And you base your lack of belief on what?
The Crack Emcee said...
You're hopeless.
I know you felt the same way about Paula Jones.
Bunny - "Negative publicity is never appreciated by the Board."
Hence: Two women being paid off.
If they were lying, and you had the proof...why pay them off?
"What the hell does Chicago politics have to do with this??"
don't know. and don't understand the "all Chicago women are whores" thing.
Obama's people would have held this until the general, because that's what oppo reserach people do.
Doesn't anybody watch the Good Wife? :)
And if anybody regularly has dates like this I hope you're kneeing your date in his junk. Or at least getting a good dinner out of it.
My last post.
Anyone who thinks Cain is unqualified, but signals their intention to vote for the SCOAMF is either a hopelessly ignorant hack or broadcasting the fact that they should be allowed nothing sharper than a rubber ball.
(this is like a Palin thread. I bet 500 posts by tomorrow).
andinista - All of the members of the KKK were Democrats?
Uh-huh.
Christopherin MA, why don't you go back downstairs like a good boy and flail yourself?
Times have changed. What used to be a low-tech endeavor became high tech, but now it's low tech again, with the advances in science and all. We must appreciate the less severe consequences at least.
Not Harassment, as they didn't work together.
No evidence of bad behavior, beyond he said/she said. Given Gloria is involved, we can expect perjury.
May be expense accounts, but unless the expense account has the named behaviors on the expence, I would go with Herman, over Gloria or her client.
Christopher in MA - I'm supposed to listen to someone who voted for George W. Bush...twice?
That'll be the day.
Some of this is objectively verifiable.
The woman says she was a job seeker--a stranger to Cain--and yet he bought her dinner and paid for her hotel room. That's pretty nice treatment for a stranger seeking a job.
I had plenty of people refer others for job advice when I was working. Some of the referrals were attractive females. I talked to them in my office, not over drinks and dinner. I was not expected to provide a hotel room.
So if someone can show that he took her to dinner and paid for her hotel, I'm giving this some credibility.
But it's also possible that she is a flat out lying nut case.
Matt said...
edutcher
Love said...If Obama accused... you would all recommend holding off on taking any action?
edutcher
Yes.
Thanks for the laugh. Don't lie to us or to yourself like that.
The commenatariat is is as thoughtful and incisive - and truthful - as anywhere on the 'Net. Certainly, we don't make excuses or try to deny it as Matt and Love and the one-celled intelligence have done with the Left's many transgressions.
But the job of the trolls here is to muddy the waters. To play the sophist so as many arguments against the charges are thrown into obfuscation.
BTW, someone asked to raise an incident of Kennedy harrassment.
Girl sandwich?
Don M said..."Not Harassment, as they didn't work together."
She was in search of a job.
A job that he said he could help her get.
You're just upset because Cain looks more and more guilty (and pretty stupid to boot) with every passing day.
In those days, Reps were a genteel country-club class and Northerners. They were a distinct political minority and kept to themselves, didn't get involved in riff-raff stuff.
I guarantee it, all K's were D's.
And by the way, did you know that Obama had sex with some random Illinois guy in a limo when Obama was in the Illinois legislature. And that he had sex with some chick in DC and then arranged to have her shipped out of the country?
There are people who have "testified" to both events.
These people were not taken seriously. Should they have been?
"The commenatariat is is as thoughtful and incisive - and truthful - as anywhere on the 'Net."
Now THAT is funny.
99% of the comments here are in defense of Cain and reflect an overwhelming belief that all of the women are just out and out liars.
Between bringing in Camelot drivel, Chicago politics, Allred and anything else that can be a distraction, most of you look like foolish dupes.
I have to believe, other than standing shoulder to shoulder with your fellow Althouse regulars, many here actually believe Cain is lying through his teeth.
Well, I am glad of that much. But, how is this sexual harassment? They weren't working together at the time.
Assuming that it's true, it's pretty boring stuff.
Lol.
Yep. You keep convincing yourself that Squirmin Herman's pushy sex-bribe is no big deal, Lyssa. Don't you worry your pretty lil' red head about it. You're much too decent and strong a person to let a persuasively "gentle" shove to the back of the head, as someone nervously declines to fellate her supposed business mentor, ruffle your feathers!
But the whole Republican primary process just looked like something much worse than even the joke that it is today. It looked like a complete and utter farcical parade of defective characters, accidentally elevated to positions way beyond their own sense of decency and intelligence.
When Rush Limblown's squawking about unfair racial stereotypes, you know the right wing is finished.
And then there was 0.5.
Mitt Romney, here we come!
Go GOP!!!
A great conceit among certain hardcore conservatives, informed by their entertainment pundit class of conservative media...is that Obama is just so hated and doomed that This Is The Year!!
The year true believers have the LUXURY of nominating ANY pure ideolgue conservative - even those to the right of Barry Goldwater - and the Presidency is guaranteed!
Such conservatives live in a bubble...not in much contact except with other like-minded "believers" - and ignore the polls showing Obama beating all but Romney, and a few polls that showed pre sex scandal Herman Cain was neck and neck with him.
I think I've seen this 'mouthpiece' before--in my crotch area...
I like him even more.
I have done this literally hundreds of times.
For me they did me though.
The only sad part of this is he didn't get any pussy.
Women are such prudes.
Offhand, I am tempted to lend credence to the Bialek woman, but in any case, I don't care — especially with what is at stake (Obama's plans for transforming America, etc).
And Cain backed off immediately. Like my mother quipped (before Nancy Reagan), shaking her head at all the feminists' ranting and raving and lawsuits, "Just say No!" (which seems to be exactly what Bialek did).
What is surprising is not how many claimants there are, but how few. And how soon the "harassment" ended (one single No each time sufficed).
Okay, you're right, it shouldn't have happened at the workplace (or anywhere) at all, but as Abraham Lincoln once said (quoting a Kentuckian of his acquaintance from his childhood):
"It's been my experience that folks who have no vices have generally very few virtues"
Pushing someone's head down on your hog is like a handshake in the gay world though.
It's not like he held it there and made her gag on it.
Love,
Crack - And you base your lack of belief on what?
I wouldn't dare debate someone who asks, in 2011, about "sexual harassment" and the Kennedys. Love, the Kennedys have MURDERED numerous women - that's how backwards you are. Get a clue.
You need to be learning something,...
One more - I'm perfectly happy to admit I voted for W. But I'll keep your "that'll be the day" comment in mind. Any voter for Little Black Jesus is a welfare drone, guilty white leftist or racist. So I'll forego any political advice from you.
Oh, Allie, I do hope your "flail" comment is an oblique "Sweeney Todd" reference. It would make me think you have some aesthetic leanings rather than posting a limp reprise of your Ritmo gooiness from the other day.
Erik - "What is surprising is not how many claimants there are, but how few. And how soon the "harassment" ended (one single No each time sufficed)."
That is incorrect.
Trying to make it sound like Cain gave it a shot, but immediately "backed off"...because he's actually a really nice guy...is bullshit.
The next time you're with a woman, other than your wife or girlfriend...stick you hand under her dress and yank her head into your crotch...but if she doesn't like it...immediately back off and tell her you meant nothing by it...and would like to start over.
Let us know how that works out for you.
I'll pay attention to this when there is actual evidence. Until then, I'll simply regard it as a partisan attack.
The message is clear: If you want to hit on your subordinates, be a Democrat first.
BTW, some bonehead asked for evidence that Jack Kennedy was ever accused of sexual harassment.
I will provide it, given you show me how many times he used Google or went disco dancing.
All three terms were invented after he died.
Now there have been numerous books noting his sexcapades, and his fathers. Some were unwanted, but women knew better than to refuse.
But you already knew that.
Christopher in MA "Little Black Jesus?"
You're an ignorant little man aren't you?
Guys, you just don't understand. Spermin' Herman Cain gets to grab the crotch and shove the head of any woman down to his crotch at any point during their lack of a relationship. Why? Because he's ON MESSAGE!
He's stayin' OAWN MESSAGE, YO!
He's a motivational speaker filled with the kind of motivation it takes to suddenly and without any prompting (other than a request for business mentoring/support - what was she thinking! The nerve! Nothin's for free in this world, get a job!) grab a woman by the back of her neck and into his crotch as he darts his hands about toward hers. BECAUSE HE'S GOT - UNH! - MOTIVATION!!! AND THAT'S what America needs.
Let's hear it for sexual aggression. That's the kind of motivation that Squirmin' Herman will bring to America.
How inspiring. How motivating.
Note to Herman: Blow jobs are best left initiated by the woman, not that I'd expect you to ever have the opportunity to know it.
Dumbass.
Of one thing I am certain:
None of the men posting here
including the liberals
have ever behaved in such a gross
and disgusting manner
as Herman Cain is alleged to have done.
Mary "What exactly did he do that was illegal? She came to him, propositioning him for help getting a job. She was a grown woman. He thought she was interested, and when she said she wasn't, he stopped touching her leg."
She didn't "proposition" him for a job. She asked if he could direct her to a company or area where she could apply for a position.
And he didn't just "touch her leg," he stuck his hand under her dress and yanked her head down to his crotch.
What press conference did YOU watch??
"I'd lawyer up so fast your head would spin. Cain would be staring down a huge lawsuit. "
What exactly did he do that was illegal? She came to him, propositioning him for help getting a job. She was a grown woman. He thought she was interested, and when she said she wasn't, he stopped touching her leg.
Welcome to the wonderful world of being a woman. You show personal interest in a man, you might be sending the wrong messages. Might get propositioned yourself even.
No means no, though. He seems to have "gotten" that ... So what's this really all about again?
11/7/11 5:33 PM
Mary, if that's a proposition, maybe he needs to brush up on his technique, pushing a womans head into his crotch and groping her crotch, how charming, sure to win the affections of your object of desire every time.
Oh! I get it now.
Like in tennis. Not the virtue.
Love said: "You and I both know exactly what you would do if your wife or daughter came home and told you what this woman said today."
So didn't her boyfriend even react to the news?? According to your misplaced logic, he should have erupted and sought retribution against Cain. Yet he didn't even bother to ask about the details!!
So if I use your logic I would have to deduce that she is making this shit up.
The message is clear: If you want to hit on your subordinates, be a Democrat first.
No. The "message" is that a guy who is actually liked by women and generally knows where the lines are drawn tends to be given a couple passes if he isn't as smooth as he could be every now and then.
Not that a boring Republican would know anything about being smooth in any department other than sales.
I guess that's where Squirmin' Herman comes in with the sex-bribe. He took the aggressive, "economic" angle on that one. Otherwise known as prostitution.
What a guy.
You fools sure know how to pick 'em.
Love,
The next time you're with a woman, other than your wife or girlfriend...stick you hand under her dress and yank her head into your crotch...but if she doesn't like it...immediately back off and tell her you meant nothing by it...and would like to start over.
What do you mean "she doesn't like it"?
Allan "Of one thing I am certain: None of the men posting here including the liberals have ever behaved in such a gross and disgusting manner as Herman Cain is alleged to have done."
Geee, are you suggesting they have?
Why?
If Cain is looking unelectable, and Perry and Newt have serious flaws, Santorum, Bachmann, Paul, Huntsman are unelectable..and Goddess Palin was 26 points behind Obama in the polls should she decide to jump in? Time to think about Romney and living with him, vs. living 4 more years with Obama.
Jen Braceras excerpt - By almost any measure, Barack Obama’s presidency has been a failure.
So, why (in an election cycle ripe with opportunity) do conservatives seem hell-bent on committing political hari-kari?
Why are so many conservatives out to destroy Mitt Romney — the only candidate with the unusual combination of intellectual firepower, professional experience and good old-fashioned competence needed to resuscitate the economy and challenge the liberal welfare-state paradigm?
In part, it’s a control issue. Conservatives are inherently anti-establishment.And because Romney is the establishment favorite, some movement conservatives reflexively view him as suspect.
Of course, to some GOP voters, resistance to Romney is about more than control. It’s about feeding a fantasy of ideological purity.
Writing last week in the Boston Herald, syndicated columnist George Will attacked Romney as an ideological contortionist unworthy of conservative support.
Will’s central point — that, to win in 2012, the Republican nominee will need to draw a sharp ideological contrast between him or herself and Obama — is correct. The eventual GOP nominee must be bold and visionary — someone willing (in Cold War parlance) not only to “contain” big government but to “roll back” its reach.
But Will is wrong to attack Romney as not up to this task. To the contrary, Romney is uniquely suited to the challenge.
As a former venture capitalist, Romney knows that America’s turnaround won’t be painless. He understands, at a practical as well as ideological level, the entrenched inefficiencies in our current system. And he is the one candidate who has both the desire and the ability to negotiate tough budgetary choices and significant entitlement reform.
Take Romney’s recent comments on foreclosures. He was strongly criticized for saying that we need a housing market correction and that lenders should be allowed to foreclose on underwater mortgages. It was a politically risky thing for a candidate to say. But he was right. The government cannot afford to bail out everyone who gambled and lost in yesterday’s housing boom. Nor should the government set precedents that establish incentives for risky consumer behavior. Saying so took guts and demonstrates that, when it comes to economic reform, Romney is willing to make tough choices in order to set us on the road to recovery.
To support his claim that Romney is weak, Will recycles the media stereotype of Romney as flip-flopper.
A closer analysis, however, reveals this to be an unfair charge. Romney did as he said he would do when he laid out goals to business venture partners, the Olympic Committee, and Massachusetts voters. He has a high reputation for integrity because he did not go back on his word.
Love,
If my wife told me that happened, Mr. Cain would not have had to wait over a decade to hear from me.
Crack - Oh, I'm sorry.
I forgot that all women actually really "like it," regardless of what they say or do.
Cretin.
"You really believe that? That if you were sitting in a car with a man, and he did that, you would dismiss it as an innocent "pass" being made?"
Well, I sure as hell wouldn't then ask him to drive me to my hotel!
Clark - She wasn't married at the time.
And people keep things to themselves for all kinds of reasons.
Ask a local catholic priest about that.
Oh, I am sorry, Love. I blasphemed The One. But since "Newsweek" called him "sort of a God," you can understand my ignorance.
Does "Indonesian Idiot" make my opinion clearer? I'll be happy to defer to a representative of the party of "BusHitler" or "Chimpy" for expert advice on how to properly refer to the Marxist cocksucker investing the Oval Office.
Wv - "alien." How aprops.
I mandate that James Brown be played in the background of everything that Squirmin' Herman ever has to say again. So loudly that it overpowers the volume of his words.
Because clearly, he is a sex machine. And he's ON MESSAGE!!!
Ain't no one gonna take that man OFF MESSAGE. Not the white lady in the car. NO ONE!!!
I wonder if that's what he told her when shoving her head and grabbing her crotch.
STAY "ON MESSAGE", Woman! There's a message coming from my crotch and it says YOU WILL suck IT! FO' REAL, YO!
Love,
Crack - Oh, I'm sorry.
I forgot that all women actually really "like it," regardless of what they say or do.
Cretin.
Yeah, I'm a regular Pepe le Pew.
jrberg3 - Good lord...now we're into why she let him drive her back to her hotel.
Why...she MUST be lying.
She MUST!!
And the other women...they MUST be lying, too!!
Everybody but Cain is LYING!!
It's obvious.
OK, if this is true, it should sink Herman Cain. And for excellent reasons. However, I think it is instructive to once again observe the enormous divergence between how the media treats those with a 'D' after their name and those with an 'R' after their name.
Example A is, of course, Bill Clinton. He was an admitted draft-dodger, a proven adulterer, and a proven perjurer. Those are not allegations, those are facts. and yet not a single piece of media ever once condemned him for it. In fact, they did their damnedest to hide the draft-dodging and the serial adultery. And they down-played the perjury.
Example B is George W. Bush. Bush was a reservist, yet - after eight years of telling us that draft-dodging was just fine for a Democrat (especially contesting an election with an undeniable war hero) - the media conspired to forge evidence that Bush was a draft-dodger. And of course, the media has ended the political careers of Bob Packwood, Larry Craig and I can't think how many other Republicans over allegations that were nothing close to the facts of what Bill Clinton and John Edwards were convicted of doing.
So. If Herman Cain did what Bialek is accusing him of, then I don't believe I can in good conscience vote for him - at least not in a primary. If he is the Republican candidate against Obama, that is another story. However, the timing of this - why now, when he is a front-runner - is highly suspicious. The involvement of Democratic Party hack Allred makes it even less credible, since she is infamous for her media-centered character assaults. And yes, these allegations are not proven or anything else. The burden of proof is on the claimants, in my opinion though with our Obama-worshipping Press, I do not believe that Cain will get anything like a fair shake.
I'm glad the accuser is a blonde. The stereotype of the black man lusting after the white, blonde woman is classic. She needs a different style for her hair though.
listen to the woman's statement again, you left out the words "and reached for my genitals"
Whoa Mary, you like it rough, huh?
Mary - You've jumped the shark.
"Running a hand up a thigh, under clothes onto the skin? Guiding someone's head toward your genital area indicating, without words, that you'd like oral sex?"
All part of the interview process?
"If you're drinking, and you LIKE someone, that's pretty much standard seduction, no? He stopped when she used her big-girl words to indicate she wasn't interested."
NO...it's NOT "pretty much standard seduction"...unless you're an ignorant fool looking to get arrested or charged.
You must of dated some real losers.
Love said...
Don M said..."Not Harassment, as they didn't work together."
She was in search of a job.
A job that he said he could help her get.
No, she asked him to help her.
"She said she sought Mr. Cain’s help to find other employment."
Not even close.
This is such unalloyed drivel.
"The commenatariat is is as thoughtful and incisive - and truthful - as anywhere on the 'Net."
Now THAT is funny.
99% of the comments here are in defense of Cain and reflect an overwhelming belief that all of the women are just out and out liars.
And 100% of the comments from Love are aimed at creating as much FUD about Herman without any semblance of proof as possible.
Typical Lefty tactics.
We used to have much better trolls.
Smarter, too.
Mary - Where would you possibly come up with this insanity?
Whoa Mary. Fixated by male rear parts, are we? My, my. You sound a little over-aggressively Herman-esque yourself.
It takes a real "special" person to not be able to get a single comment in that goes without being deleted and banned by Ann Althouse.
Seems the only thing Cain's guilty of is, if true, being a ham-handed passer. That makes him an ordinary politician. Not a smooth operator.
This being a gal from Chicago, and Allred involved, the credulity bar is way high. This is Barry and Axelrod's MO. Show's who they're scared of.
Well as for me I'd rather have mine on a bed of flowers. With a bit of tender foreplay.
Hey Lyssaloveyredhead, FYI-you're on Instapundit!
Mary - "I agree with those arguing that women who complain like this after setting themselves up don't belong in the workplace."
She didn't "set herself up."
She met with the CEO of a major organization to discuss a job.
How old are you...twelve?
I remember the time I did the same thing to a woman. She told me she had a boyfriend and wanted to go home. I took her to her home. And, we did it all night long.
Workin' double time
On the seduction line
She was one of a kind, she's just mine all mine
Wanted no applause
Just another course
Made a meal out of me, and come back for more
Had to cool me down
To take another round
Now I'm back in the ring to take another swing
'Cause the walls were shaking
The earth was quakin'
My mind was achin'
And we were makin' it and you -
andinista "Seems the only thing Cain's guilty of is, if true, being a ham-handed passer. That makes him an ordinary politician. Not a smooth operator."
So you felt the same way about Bill Clinton having consensual sex with an intern?
Whoa Mary, you like it rough, huh?
Either that, or she just has the kind of issue that Titus has.
I guess both.
Mary is a cartoon, and has about as much intellectual heft.
Althouse usually deletes her comments instantly. That's why she doesn't bother to show up. It's kind of funny to watch.
But yeah, it was pretty sick and bizarre to watch her suggest that the only blow jobs that ever do or should occur take place following the use of "just the right amount of" a little force.
She's a nutjob. But I've already said to much. Letting her spew her garbage is just something you've got to let happen. Until it's swept up.
Mary - Yes, people do have drinks and dinner while discussing job possibilities.
Did you even listen to the press conference?
Why not give it s shot before continuing to make a fool of yourself.
Krauthammer:
The problem for Cain is that the named accuser has no motive.
None that could be ascertained from the press conference today, observed Dr. Krauthammer.
Alrred's presence helps no one according to Charles. Not a single person, ever, according to Charles, does Alrred's presence help in matters of this type.
Fame has never, nor will be, desirable to good people who only want to correct the record, as best as they both humbly and altruistically can, like Cain's named accuser, it seemingly appears to Charles Krauthammer.
Thank you, Charles. Very astute observations concurrent with the zeitgeist, observation worthy of the status as 'Buckley of the Beltway' by the way.
No sane person could argue that in today's world fame in and of itself is a goal, could they? Or that it could profit someone somehow?
With all that reality TV and all those youtube-available chances to seek fame, if a person were to theoretically want to do something like that (and endure the potential hassles that might accompany such a want/desire/need) why choose this time, now?
As Charles says, there's no reason.
She didn't "set herself up."
She met with the CEO of a major organization to discuss a job.
Sure she did.
She called him. Flew to where he was. Met with him in a bar and had drinks.
None of those things are part of any job interview that I've ever been involved with.
She set herself up.
IF he did come on to her...which I really doubt....well walk like a slut, act like a slut....don't be surprised when you get treated like a slut.
edutcher - I base my opinion of Cain's actions on there being four separate women making a similar charge, some about it happening more than once. I also think two of the being paid off is a telltale sign of guilt, along with the press conference I watched today.
What exactly are YOU basing your defense of Cain on?
I'm just dying to know what kind of "soliciting" Mary practices and advocates in the context of a discussion thread regarding sex-bribes and job offers.
I think it's safe to say that her methamphetamine-fueled view is not in danger of being taken seriously.
By anybody.
"99% of the comments here are in defense of Cain and reflect an overwhelming belief that all of the women are just out and out liars."
99% of us do not BELIEVE, we… KNOW (!)
1) that the Left and the MSM has double standards for liberals and conservatives (Clinton and Edwards vs. Thomas and Cain)
2) and that the feminists and the PC crowd have gone overboard with their attempts to demonize men for their every action, thought, and instinct as men (see Stephen Baskerville's "Taken Into Custody"), and that (as a result) in many cases, the latest scandal and the latest accusations against men, in general or against one man in particular, tend to be, if not (partly) fabricated, (highly) exaggerated.
The left and the MSM pretend to be neutral, objective observers, and yet they use these double standards; If being economical with the truth (deliberately holding back relevant facts) is akin to deceit and telling a lie, then who is it who are "lying through their teeth"?
Therefore, it is not being a "foolish dupe" to bring in what you call "distractions", it is the height of intelligence and common sense.
Indeed, when you buy, or when anyone buys, into the left's self-serving view of history — of conservatives as wicked hypocrites and of themselves as defenseless victims and/or as the heroic knights coming to the latters' rescue (viz. Obama) — then who is the foolish dupe?
I'm calling the Nietzschean exception to the ad hominem in that case. Namely, what sort of a person would say/think such a thing...?
Bunny - So you feel that if a woman meets up with the CEO of a major organization to discuss possible employment, in a public hotel bar, have dinner with him in a public restaurant, then get into a car with him...you're pretty much setting yourself up for some groping and giving the guy a blow job?
Wen was the last time you were on a date?
Have you EVER been on a date??
My guess is that "Mary's" seen in as much of a human way by her "colleagues" as she sees anyone who's had the misfortune of employing or working with her. I.e. not very.
Just naturally this energetic, friend. Exercise, eating, not burned out by life...
Aren't you the envious one though?
Not particularly. Most bipolar people I've ever met (clinically or otherwise) have to make up for their mania with a narrow focus, occasional psychosis, and other debilitating trade-offs.
For those of you who can't understand why the women didn't come forward sooner...what are your feeling about the boys (who are now men) at Penn State?
All liars?
"One of the most compelling and disturbing pieces of testimony in this investigation came from an eyewitness to a late-night sexual assault that allegedly occurred in March of 2002, in the locker room of the Lasch Football Building on the University Park Campus," Kelly said. "Hearing what sounded like sexual activity in the showers of a building that was supposed to be empty, a graduate assistant reportedly observed Sandusky sexually assaulting a naked boy who appeared to be about 10 years old."
Where I'm from "ordinary politician" is near the lowest lifeform there is. Get anywhere near 'em, and you can't get home and take a hot shower fast enough.
It's sad, I don't know why our public servants have become so corrupted, and we tolerate them. It's been that way for a long time, as Twain and Warner so ably documented in "The Gilded Age". Unfortunately, the stakes are higher now, while the applicants more venal than ever.
Erik - Which part of the MSM are you referring to?
Rush? Glenn" Fox? Bill?
All one in the same.
Well, we have one woman standing up for "slightly" coercive sex as some kind of real or ideal norm for everybody. So Herman's got that.
Any other takers?
Of course, the person in question is someone who manages to get instantly deleted by someone as enamored of free speech as Ann Althouse.
I say this forced sex movement has real potential. If anyone bothered to read Mary's blog, she might have a real platform for it.
Ritmo said: Yep. You keep convincing yourself that Squirmin Herman's pushy sex-bribe is no big deal, Lyssa. Don't you worry your pretty lil' red head about it. You're much too decent and strong a person to let a persuasively "gentle" shove to the back of the head, as someone nervously declines to fellate her supposed business mentor, ruffle your feathers!
You can read the rest of my comments on the matter, and then you can apologize for posting before thinking.
Consider the source ... Gloria Allred was one of the biggest backers of the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse rape case ...
Can you link us to any story relating to "sexual harassment" during the Kennedy years."
Google Fiddle and Faddle.
You know, I've sometimes wondered about the number of rapes that have occurred throughout human history, and the chance that someone might have had an ancestor or two who was a product of rape.
How do you think that kind of genomic profile might affect the way they think of rape? I mean, after all, such a person has the genes of rapists running through their veins.
My question is, do you think that someone with a history of rapes in their family tree might be, genetically speaking, more likely than a normal person to justify forced sex acts, regardless of their gender or potential for being raped?
I think that would explain someone like Mary.
Id vote for a convicted republican / independant branded rapist over Obama.
You can read the rest of my comments on the matter, and then you can apologize for posting before thinking.
You know, these things actually have a beginning. The comment I quoted (your comment) was one of the first ones on this thread.
Suffice it to say, I didn't have the time or the interest in sifting through the remaining 300-some odd comments.
To me, it's a done deal. Whatever you knew about this sad incident or not at the beginning, however your view might have changes upon actually, you know, learning about the event, the guy is toast. Maybe not today, but extending the spectacle of how he deals with it will be a fascinating metaphor for the standards of today's Republican party.
The first comment was obviously an attempt to say that what you HEARD about what he did wasn't a big deal, and I quoted it. Regardless of your feelings about what WE KNOW he did, I'm here to tell you it's a Big Freakin Deal.
Not much else matters. Unless one cares to read Mary's take on it.
With someone whose views are as unexpected, whacked and indefensible as hers, you've got to admit I need to be prepared in these forums to encounter some pretty horrifying arguments. Sorry if you didn't think yours qualified. In the beginning or down the road.
Ritchie The Riveter - "Consider the source ... Gloria Allred was one of the biggest backers of the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse rape case ..."
So you support Roman Polanski and O.J.?
She represented the woman and Brown family in those cases.
And I don't remember her actually representing any of the accusers in the Duke case.
Hey Lyssaloveyredhead, FYI-you're on Instapundit!
Awesome! (And for the most boring comment I made here today- go figure.) Thanks!
Heart_Collector - But you also have a brain the size of a titmouse.
So who cares?
Why was she fired?
Love said: So you felt the same way about Bill Clinton having consensual sex with an intern?
Did you? At least this woman was a full-fledged adult (not in that kind of adulthood that college students and interns occupy) and not his direct report at the time.
So, I assume you'll be condemning Clinton any time now.
Lyssa, if your later comments are not indicative of the view expressed in the first one, would you mind citing them or at least noting the time they were posted? Because God forbid I might comment on an odd-sounding view early in a thread before someone bothers to change their mind later on.
I have no idea.
I don't know anything about this woman's character. I can see huge incentives to make up a story like this, and trotting out Allred doesn't speak well of a person.
On the other hand, I don't know anything about Cain's character either.
Will withhold any judgement until there are further details and evidence.
How did this happen post her firing in '97 but over 15 years ago according to when she broke up with the boyfriend?
It is no longer just one issue: Sexual harrassment. It is a tiday wave of 'Cain Confusions-Across-the-Board. He is done. He is history. Did himself in. This man was not ready for prime time. He sure isn't a president of the US.
And will Romney now hit Iowa and talk about his integrity in each phase of his past life - doing what he said he would do - to combat the inauthenticity problem? Romney now has a chance to win Iowa.
=================
Ritchie The Riveter said...
Consider the source ... Gloria Allred was one of the biggest backers of the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse rape case ...
No defense of that grotesque money-grubber Allred...but she stayed well clear of the whore involved in the Duke case. Allred's media and money-making empire is based in large part about extorting money from hyped, but factual claims. She gets caught hyping up a preposterous liar - she loses access to national media camera banks and primetime news - and the pressure the accused have to settle with her.
Ritmo said: Well, we have one woman standing up for "slightly" coercive sex as some kind of real or ideal norm for everybody. So Herman's got that.
...I say this forced sex movement has real potential. If anyone bothered to read Mary's blog, she might have a real platform for it.
Just FYI, there was no forced sex at all, no sex at all, and nothing that even approached force. There was, allegedly, some touching, which was rejected and stopped. If the allegations are as damning as you say, then why would you need to lie about them?
Love writes "The next time you're with a woman, other than your wife or girlfriend...stick you hand under her dress and yank her head into your crotch...but if she doesn't like it...immediately back off and tell her you meant nothing by it...and would like to start over.
Let us know how that works out for you."
"how that works out for me"?!
What if she DOES like it?! What if she DOES want it?! It depends! It all depends on how the evening went before that, with hotel room (I mean hotel suite!), lounge, drinks, evening… (Maybe she DOES want to become my girlfriend! Or my wife!) More on this below…
Further on, Love writes to someone else: "She met with the CEO of a major organization to discuss a job.
How old are you...twelve?"
Then we have "Good lord...now we're into why she let him drive her back to her hotel."
Elsewhere, we have a comment to the effect of, what's wrong with having drinks, dinner, a ride in the man's car…
And, several times: "Did you even listen to the press conference?"
"What press conference did YOU watch??"
Okay, Love, I watched the press conference where SB said when she arrived at her room, it was a suite and HC told her she had been "upgraded". Then drinks in the lounge, then driving to a restaurant (more drinks? romantic music? candles?), then driving her home… to her hotel… suite.
Right then and there, when she had heard about the upgrade, she should have said No. Or maybe not No, but put a damper on the restaurant and a myriad of things…
Again, I am going to quote my good ol' mother — and she is a lifelong Democrat; this time from a time in the '90s where there were two rape trials at the same time, one involving Mike Tyson and another involving a Kennedy named Smith.
My mother had zero sympathy for either alleged victim. One girl should never have gone to the boxer's room, the other should never have gone home to the Kennedy beach house in the middle of the night to sit on the beach with the Smith cousin. It's that simple, Love.
Ask yourself if you're not the one who sounds like she is twelve years old.
Is this like a pre-kids, threesome story, DAD?
Just a story.
Just FYI, there was no forced sex at all, no sex at all, and nothing that even approached force. There was, allegedly, some touching, which was rejected and stopped. If the allegations are as damning as you say, then why would you need to lie about them?
For someone as sensitive as you are to the idea that your thoughts might not be considered in their entirety, you might want to do yourself a favor and read the despicable comments of "Mary", whose horrible judgments and preferences regarding how she would define consent on everyone else's behalf formed the context of this response of mine.
lyssalovelyredhead - Clinton had consensual sex with an adult. Whining about hos young and impressionable she was is not relevant. There are plenty of examples of older men with much younger women, and old women with younger men.
Do you feel terrible about Demi taking advantage of poor little Ashton?
There's a difference between that and what Cain is accused of.
And you know it, too so get off the high horse.
New Cain campaign slogan: Show liberals that you don't care what they think.
Ritmo, I'm not going to hunt down each time and spot that I commented. If you're interested, you can do that as well as I. But I went through the reasons that this was a bad character sign to both Tyrone and Amy, and I stated that I would not vote for him in the primary if this is true. I also stated that this would probably sink him, and that, if true, it is probably a good thing. I also had a rousing session with ShoutingT about the validity of sexual harassment laws.
It's not my fault if you can't figure out how to read things in context.
I stand by my assertion that it is boring stuff, though I could have been more clear about why I said that. It is boring because he was not her employer, was not in a position of any authority over her, and he stopped when she said no. Compared to most political sex scandels (i.e., the ones that involve taking advantage of interns, groping women who have just lost their husbands to suicide, leaving women to drown, etc. - you know, the ones that you and people like you defend), it's pretty dull. (Please note that no thesaurus in the world will state that "boring" is the same as "morally unobjectionable")
Erik - You have your head up your ass.
Don't waste my time trying to defend Cain.
You and I both know where this is heading.
lyssalovelyredhead "I stand by my assertion that it is boring stuff, though I could have been more clear about why I said that. It is boring because he was not her employer, was not in a position of any authority over her, and he stopped when she said no."
What about the other two or three?
No big deal?
There's a difference between that and what Cain is accused of.
What's the difference, other than the fact that Clinton was successful?
Just FYI, there was no forced sex at all, no sex at all, and nothing that even approached force. There was, allegedly, some touching, which was rejected and stopped. If the allegations are as damning as you say, then why would you need to lie about them?
Oh golly golly gee. Well, I continue to maintain that grabbing someone's neck or the back of their head before any mention is made of not only fellatio, but sex period, without any flirting, while grabbing a crotch before seeing if you could even get away with grazing or touching a leg first, qualifies for idiot-level harassment. It's just way too forward to make a case for subtlety or mixed signals.
But keep trying to get the guy off the hook to the diminished level of offense you can. I'm sure it's a real winner of a case.
Well, at least he's got his defenders - of the act, and not just the pisspoor judgment. He must be a pretty special guy, Lyssa.
I suppose this is a scenario you've thought-experimented with (in a legal sense) or witnessed?
BTW, most businesses are smart enough to not let the H.R. person be pressured or harassed by a "boss" and potential litigant in deciding how to handle this sort of a scenario, but then, that brings up the whole conflict of interest issue that is such a sore one for Republicans.
Peter Hoh - "New Cain campaign slogan: Show women what you really think about them.
Interesting that Ms. Bialek did not take questions. My first question would be whether he groped her and pulled her head towards his crotch at the same time. A graphic illustration of this feat would be helpful, if not comical.
My second question is whether he was unzipped as he pulled her head towards his crotch. If not, what would be the purpose of such an action?
Pardon the vulgarity. I like a BJ as much as the next guy, but there is a time, place and position for such acts. Her description sounds uncomfortable.
Is there an ex-psychiatric nurse in the althouse who might use her superior knowledge of human anatomy (assuming she took such courses) to edify the althouse hillbillies?
lyssalovelyredhead - Clinton had consensual sex with an adult. Whining about hos young and impressionable she was is not relevant. There are plenty of examples of older men with much younger women, and old women with younger men
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Actually Clinton was accused of sexual harrassment and innapropriate touching in a much cruder vein, and even rape.
So I'm not sure what you are talking about.
What about the other two or three?
No big deal?
If we ever happen to find out what he's supposed to have done to them, I'll decide then. As would any other thinking person.
gregq said...
Even better, we have specific allegations that, if true, would actually constitute sexual harassment of the type that is wrong, and should be punished.
Now, how do we go about determining if they are true, or false?
Actually it wouldn't be sexual harassment since she wasn't in the employ of the NRA and instead was asking Cain for a favor to help her get a job somewhere else. If he actually did this, then it isn't harassment. He's a cad and a potential adulterer, but not a sexual harasser. Also, it is important to note, that she never sued him civilly and in light of her statements I wonder if Cain is going to sue her for defamation because she has provided zero proof that this ever occurred. Hence, a he said, she said.
She told her boyfriend that she got hit on by Cain, but not specifically what. She told someone else, but not specifically what. I do have to say that she didn't look credible at the time of her telling this story too. She was reading it from a script. If this occurred to her and she had this recollection, it would have in my opinion, been given extemporaneously.
Also, was she one of the women that politico said was 'harassed'? Something isn't right here, but I'm still not singling out that Cain did anything wrong legally. Morally, maybe, but that has to be proved.
An experiment: Imagine a dummy is sitting to your right and you are both in a car seat. How do you simultaneously grab a crotch and get her head pushed down to your crotch.
Secondly: Your room gets upgraded. you meet for drinks instead of coffee, you get taken to a high price restaurant....and you didn't know this was a play? You were shocked when he put his hand on your knee and tried to kiss you?
REALLY?
Cain is toast but Bialek just confirmed every blonde joke ever made.
I should add that men have been hit on too (I certainly have), and have been groped, by women as well as by gay men, and we too can say No (if we feel so inclined).
Love keeps saying "So are all these women liars?!"
In addition, I mentioned in an earlier post that "99% of us do not BELIEVE, we… KNOW […] that the feminists and the PC crowd have gone overboard […] and that (as a result) in many cases, the latest scandal and the latest accusations against men, in general or against one man in particular, tend to be, if not (partly) fabricated, (highly) exaggerated."
To illustrate that, let me quote a feminist veteran of the 1980s fight for the rights of a woman to be believed (which brought about a culture of “women don’t lie”) whose perspective changed somewhat when… her own son was falsely accused decades later of attempted sexual assault:
"If you think that women don’t lie to get back at men, how naive can you be? And who is going to protect our sons?"
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2011/05/if-you-think-that-women-dont-lie-to-get.html
(Related: "More than 30 percent of [Baltimore's rape] cases investigated by detectives each year are deemed unfounded")
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2011/08/21/more-than-30-percent-of-the-cases-investigated-by-detectives-each-year-are-deemed-unfounded-five-times-the-national-average/
Love said...
edutcher - I base my opinion of Cain's actions on there being four separate women making a similar charge, some about it happening more than once. I also think two of the being paid off is a telltale sign of guilt, along with the press conference I watched today.
What exactly are YOU basing your defense of Cain on?
No proof?
Not to mention three of the four won't come forward while number four has chosen to associate herself with publicity whore and politico-feminist hit-broad Gloria Allred in a case in which Cain had no sway over her, was helping her as a favor solicited by her, and, according to her, stopped when asked.
In other words, he made a pass at her. Inappropriate for a married man, if true, but not harrassment.
And why, oh why, did she agree to meet in a bar? Not exactly the most professional of environments.
And, while Dr Krauthammer has said she has no motive, has anyone checked her party registration, etc.?
It's obvious he misread her signals or lack thereof. If she was going to be a willing partner , she wouldn't have rejected his tender " overtures". Anyone with such poor judgement has no business running a country. He also displays serious character issues , he was a married man, he was her "business mentor", he betrayed her trust and revealed what sort of man he is, one that cannot be President.
And before anyone says it, yes Clinton was wrong , he was impeached and survived it. Why replay this scenario with someone like Cain, he misused his power as a prominent businessman, what will he be capable of as President?
Bender said...
Well now.
As much as he might want, try as he may, Cain now can no longer pursue the response of "I've said what I said. I'm done. Shut up and go away."
He can no longer pursue the Obamaesque strategy of thinking himself above having to answer. Will he now pursue the Clintonesque strategy of "nuts and sluts"?
The issue is now joined, and it no longer has the aroma of a "high-tech lynching." Either he admits or he calls this woman a liar and engages to destroy her.
That is absolutely false. This is an apples to oranges comparison. Clinton lied to the American public as POTUS that he committed no wrong in the oval office. Furthermore, he lied in his deposition. Lewinski was an intern and Paula Jones was an employee. Lewinski had the semen stained dress that proved the DNA on it was Clintons. Nothing has been produced about Cain other than this woman saying he tried to cope a feel. Wow, staggering in its breadth and scope and I'm not even a Cain fan, but it is absolutely fascinating to see how people interpret events as they happen before them and in some cases filling in the narratives right out of whole cloth.
I just said this was a Barry/Ax MO.
Here's the link. Go to the bottom, you'll see the quid quo pro. Bingo!
Listen up all you neo-Clintonian Cain sycophants --
Cain has just issued a non-denial statement blasting the media. I guess he's decided to go the attack, attack, attack route, straight from the Dem playbook.
You all should be proud to hack for him.
And before anyone says it, yes Clinton was wrong , he was impeached and survived it. Why replay this scenario with someone like Cain, he misused his power as a prominent businessman, what will he be capable of as President?
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He tried to get laid. The attempt failed.
I'm laughing at all this fake moral hand wringing.
SPImmortal - My comment was related to Lewinsky, as you probably already know.
Not the nutcases who accused him of everything from rape to murder to running a cocaine ring.
Typing too fast. Quid pro quo
I stand by my assertion that it is boring stuff, though I could have been more clear about why I said that. It is boring because he was not her employer, was not in a position of any authority over her, and he stopped when she said no.
Yup. You go ahead and keep thinking that. I don't think that's the general take on it. Most people could give a rat's ass about the more lawyerly details. But feel free to let Glenn Reynolds convince you otherwise.
They're going to focus on the grabbing of the head/neck, the grabbing of the crotch, the sleazy presumption of a naughty quid-pro-quo to someone who's looking to you for advice. And they're going to place it within the context of a slate of candidates that either are proud of the executions they mete out or don't care about dying coma patients.
The whole slate is an exercise in bad judgment, aggressiveness. It's the Republican "we vote for the most aggressive person" impulse. That's what character is, to you guys, right? Mindless assertiveness for its own sake.
It's what leaves the only one standing the spineless Mitt Romney.
Have fun.
Allie's Apple said...
It's obvious he misread her signals or lack thereof. If she was going to be a willing partner , she wouldn't have rejected his tender " overtures". Anyone with such poor judgement has no business running a country.
Really? So even if this incident did occur, now you are saying that because he couldn't get to at least 3rd base he would be a fail as a POTUS? You leftards are fucking nuts.
Why replay this scenario with someone like Cain, he misused his power as a prominent businessman, what will he be capable of as President?
Because there is ZERO proof that Cain did anything wrong. At all.
To be serious for a moment, if it happened exactly as Bialek describes, I don't care.
As I and many others have pointed out, there's a list as long as my 37 inch sleeve length arm of Democrats that feminists and hopey, changey liberals happily voted for. Cain respected her desire to stop and took her home.
Is that the problem? Should he have bought her more drinks? Is she pissed her looks didn't get her a job?
The difference between this and Penn State is politics. Liberals have a lot to gain from slandering a black conservative who has become a viable contender for the White House. It's not like we haven't seen this gambit before.
What's worse, making a clumsy pass or snorting coke?
We're supposed to accept gay marriage, all sorts of sexual diversity and such, but every election the liberals get all Puritanical about conservative candidates. Accept the diversity and life choices, guys. Quit being such prudes.
Ritmo said: Well, I continue to maintain that grabbing someone's neck or the back of their head before any mention is made of not only fellatio, but sex period, without any flirting, while grabbing a crotch before seeing if you could
When was it said that there was no mention of sex and no flirting. They went to drinks and dinner together- it's not crazy to think that there was flirting going on. Have you ever had ANY dealings with the opposite sex?
That doesn't make it right, because he was married, but come on! A failed pass, borish though it may be, is not assault.
SPImmortal "He tried to get laid. The attempt failed."
Right.
No big deal, the guy's just running for President.
Why should Americans care about such silly little things like sexual harassment or lying through your teeth?
Especially considering he's running as a Republican.
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