November 30, 2011

"Who cares about duplicate signatures in Wisconsin Recall?"

"Anti-recall forces will have to establish their own database and run checks for duplicates, in other words, do the government’s work for it."

AND: "Is Hulsey running for governor?" (Remember Hulsey? Hint: He used to run from...)

141 comments:

Tridad said...

To be fair, they did tell us that it wouldn't be over until they won.

(just in case, that is meant as snark)

MadisonMan said...

When you link to another law blog -- sending traffic their way and imperiling your lofty perch at the top of law blogs -- does the owner send you a thank you email?

If Brett Hulsey runs, he'll lose. That's my prediction.

ndspinelli said...

I think we should start a guerilla campaign and sign hundreds of times. I hope that's not a felony!!

Ann Althouse said...

"When you link to another law blog -- sending traffic their way and imperiling your lofty perch at the top of law blogs -- does the owner send you a thank you email?"

There's nothing lamer in blogging than the fear of linking, the effort at hoarding readers. I've criticized other bloggers for doing that. It's just wrong. It's not blogging.

Ann Althouse said...

Some people send thank yous, but it's nothing I particularly want. The best response is to get linked for something some other time.

cubanbob said...

Just when you thought the progressives could not get any dumber, they do! Walker will run his ads, the recall movement will get bogged down in lawsuits and the proponents of the recall will look like the thuggish schmucks that they are. Are all these guys secret republican operatives? What else can account for such apparent stupidity?

Triangle Man said...

Having duplicate signatures is understandable, especially if people are concerned about stolen or destroyed petitions. However, having an accurate count of eligible signatures is the whole point of the exercise.

Sofa King said...

However, having an accurate count of eligible signatures is the whole point of the exercise.

You must be an easy mark for con men.

ALH said...

He used to run from...the truth and reality of New Media Meade.

ALH said...

Hulsey would stand a better job of beating Walker than he did trying to avoid (or out-think) Meade.

Arthur Thistlepimp said...

Ann Althouse said...
Some people send thank yous, but it's nothing I particularly want. The best response is to get linked for something some other time.


What? No chocolates or fruit baskets?

garage mahal said...

I seem to remember a post in which Hulsey sought Meade out at a rally, with a pic of them smiling and talking. Have to take a look.

Fen said...

“You can circulate or sign a recall petition even if you have already signed another recall petition.”

[....]

Fen said...

but tearing up petition is a felony.

Fen said...

Hey Garage, how many times did you vote - er - sign the petition? Six? Is this what Democracy looks like?

MadisonMan said...

What? No chocolates or fruit baskets?

Delicious pears from Harry and David, or some bread from Zingermans? English Muffins from Wolfermans?

As to catching duplicate names -- how would that be done, practically speaking? You could enter the names into a database, but how would the database know, for example, that Madison J. Man and Mad J. Man -- who live at the same address -- are in reality the same person? My understanding of the petitions -- not having seen one myself -- is that they "just" include name and address.

Wouldn't this be a problem for any kind of nominating petition?

garage mahal said...

I signed twice.

Once for Walker, and once for Kleefisch.

edutcher said...

Given Dr Evil's history of modifying elections, I would expect the anti-recall crowd to double check everything as a matter of course.

Ann Althouse said...

Some people send thank yous, but it's nothing I particularly want. The best response is to get linked for something some other time.

I expect you would get some acknowledgement. Professor Jacobson strikes me as a class act.

And a gentleman.

Jay said...

Who cares about duplicate signatures in Wisconsin Recall?

Certainly nobody on the political left.

Sofa King said...

I signed twice.

Once for Walker, and once for Kleefisch.


Did you know you can sign multiple times? Why haven't you? It's like you don't want to recall Walker!

Allie said...

I remember a video in which Meade was chasing Hulsey down a sidewalk in front of the Capitol building.

Pogo said...

What a sham.

It's a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.

Forget it Jake; it's Demotown.

Allie said...

Me too Garage!

garage mahal said...

Hilarious. The law firm bringing a suit against the state's elections board advised the legislature on how to write the very law it is suing over. And the attorney leading the case represented Justice Gableman in 2008 over an ethics charge. These clowns cannot be gone soon enough.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

This is good information to have for the future Democrat recalls.

Pogo said...

Why not just start a generic petition to recall Democrats now?

Since you can double-triple-quadruple sign, why not post -date it as well?

And I am noting that Allie was here earlier this week bragging that there were >300K signatures so far, all the while knowing she herself and others had signed it multiple times.

Bullshit and dishonesty, but typical democrat politics.

Calypso Facto said...

Why not just start a generic petition to recall Democrats now?

Because the GOP has more maturity?

La Crosse County GOP chairman Bill Feehan said he doesn't support recalling Vinehout because he opposes recalls as election do-overs.
"I think this is a misuse of the recall process," Feehan said. "I don't think we should fight recalls with recalls."

alan markus said...

Dang, I was hoping there is an Alvin Greene (Alvin Greene) clone that could run in a primary against Feingold or Obey or whoever. Someone that Walker supporters could vote for in said primary.

But, maybe Husley could be the next best thing to serve that purpose.

logos said...

Professor Jacobson said: “Anti-recall forces will have to establish their own database and run checks for duplicates, in other words, do the government’s work for it.”

That is precisely what True the Vote in Houston did prior to the 2010 mid-term elections http://www.truethevote.org/

With 30 donated computers and hundreds of thousands of hours by volunteers, True the Vote compiled, sorted and reported the irregularities to Leo Vasquez, the voter registrar.

“Most of the findings focused on a group called Houston Votes, a voter registration group headed by Sean Caddle, who also worked for the Service Employees International Union before coming to Houston. Among the findings were that only 1,793 of the 25,000 registrations the group submitted appeared to be valid.

The other registrations included one of a woman who registered six times in the same day; registrations of non-citizens; so many applications from one Houston Voters collector in one day that it was deemed to be beyond human capability; and 1,597 registrations that named the same person multiple times, often with different signatures.”

The Harris voter registrar, Leo Vasquez,reported the fraud to the District Attorney. “The outcome of the efforts grew in importance the day after Vasquez made his announcement. On the morning of Aug. 27, a three-alarm fire destroyed almost all of Harris County’s voting machines, throwing the upcoming Nov. 2 election into turmoil. While the cause wasn’t determined, the $40 million blaze, according to press reports, means election officials will be focused on creating a whole new voting system in six weeks.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/23/voter-fraud-houston-tea-party-truethevote-texas/#ixzz1fDDAkmqP

Here’s the official Harris County Briefing Report dated August 24, 2010, with photocopies of some the actual fraudulent voter registrations.

http://www.tax.co.harris.tx.us/News/PR/2010/voter/ProblemHoustonVotes.pdf

If some enterprising volunteers will come together, access the recall petitions (which are public records), enter the data in an excel spread sheet, sort and cross check names and addresses, Wisconsin has a shot at shining the bright, disinfecting light of day to the validity of the signatures.

Perhaps, that effort could be “crowd-sourced”, as the New York Times called for crowd-sourcing to comb through Sarah Palin’s e-mails.

Fen said...

Garage: Hilarious. The law firm bringing a suit against the state's elections board advised the legislature on how to write the very law it is suing over.

So? Why is that hilarious? Walk me through it.

Triangle Man said...

You must be an easy mark for con men.

Maybe. What are you selling?

campy said...

Why not just start a generic petition to recall Democrats now?

Because the GOP has more maturity?
Just one of the many reasons they're headed for an epic crash-and-burn next November.

Maturity is so 1952.

Kit said...

Maybe before folks complain about the ability of people to legally sign more than one petition, the right would do better by policing themselves from giving others the incentive to sign more than one petition. With the reported hijinks (or threats of hijinks) around the state, some may want to sign more than once to make sure that their signature is counted once.

BTW, it’s always been the responsibility of the candidate (R, D, I or whatever) to challenge the signatures of their opponent, whether it is for a recall or for nomination papers. There’s nothing new here.

James said...

Hopefully the challenges to multiple petition signatures push the recall election to November 2012. That would be the worst possible outcome for Obama and the Wisconsin Democrats.

However Jim Doyle ensured that he stacked the Government Accountability Board with his loyalists and cronies so all their decisions favor Democrats.

Cornroaster said...

There are other issues that will also need to be addressed. For example, what if someone were to sign my name and address to a recall petition. I have no intention of signing a petition asking to recall either Governor Walker or Lieutenant Governor Kleefisch. Will there be any database where I could determine whether my name/address/signature was fraudulently entered on a recall petition? Then, if I were to find that this happened, is there any mechanism for me to be able to contact the GAB to insure that my fraudulently entered information is not counted as a signature towards the recall total? Likewise, only my wife and I reside at our address. What if other names were fraudulently listed as signers from our address? Would there be any way to determine this and report it?

garage mahal said...

So? Why is that hilarious? Walk me through it.

Republicans are suing the state over the same maps they enacted into law. The same law firm that advised them is bringing the suit against the state. That the state already got billed $400,000 for.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

With the reported hijinks (or threats of hijinks) around the state, some may want to sign more than once to make sure that their signature is counted once.

See? I told you guys:

"Lets pretend there are GOP hijinks to justify our own hijinks"

The only surprise is that the Libtards felt a need to inoculate themselves from Shame by setting up the Tu Quoque:

A is guilty of X
pretend B is also guilty of X
A is excused

Fen said...

Garage: The same law firm that advised them is bringing the suit against the state

*shrug*

I don't think you understand what a law firm is or how it works.

But if your ignorance amuses you, laugh away.

Fen said...

Will there be any database where I could determine whether my name/address/signature was fraudulently entered on a recall petition? Then, if I were to find that this happened, is there any mechanism for me to be able to contact the GAB to insure that my fraudulently entered information is not counted as a signature towards the recall total?

If the GOP actually wanted to play hijinks, they would challenge each and every signature. The recall would then go forward sometime in 2020.

garage mahal said...

I don't think you understand what a law firm is or how it works.

But if your ignorance amuses you, laugh away.


LOL. You ask me to explain. I explain. You tell me I don't know what I just explained to you.

Fen said...

No, I'm telling you that its only amusing if you don't know (your ignorance) how law firms work.

garage mahal said...

What does that even mean?

marylynn said...

Logos, sign me up. I will be happy to volunteer my time to look for bogus signatures. And yes, how do we find out if our neighbors for example fraudulently signed our names and listed our addresses?

damikesc said...

Is garage becoming an advocate of "loser pays" tort reform? Even begrudgingly?

MadisonMan said...

Likewise, only my wife and I reside at our address. What if other names were fraudulently listed as signers from our address? Would there be any way to determine this and report it?

You have to be a registered voter to sign. (I think)

hamcentral said...

The Governor's Office is directing people who want to help verify signatures to the Republican Party of Wisconsin.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"And yes, how do we find out if our neighbors for example fraudulently signed our names and listed our addresses?"

Doesn't matter, 'we must count all the votes'. Vote early, vote often. Isn't that how it works?

It is hilarious to watch the projectionists flail. Fen's illustration of liberal justification nails it.

A sad joke, this recall effort, courtesy of democrats. This is what their 'democracy' looks like - it really boils down to a 'grievocracy' doesn't it...funny, it isn't all that long ago we were all marveling at the courageous fleebaggers...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Wisconsin is so seriously screwed up.

I think my comment on the other thread about Madison being an abortion should be applied to the entire state.

Curious George said...

Looking at the recall law, it's up to a challenger of the recall signatures to prove they are incorrect, and it has to be done in ten days. The GOP should hire a firm to enter the names into a database. OCR could be used to do this quickly. Once the names/addresses are in the data base it would be easy to cross reference for duplicates.

You would then have to check other databases that would indicate whether the person is actually a Wisconsin resident, and is a valid voter. That would be a little more difficult. I'm sure there are voter registrations etc, that could be used.

You can't simply challenge every signature it seems (I'm no lawyer, is there one in this blog?) but you have to provide evidence.

Even if there still remains enough sigs after this effort, it could be good material to use in the election to the extent that these ashats will go to recall Walker.

Teri said...

And yes, how do we find out if our neighbors for example fraudulently signed our names and listed our addresses?

After people enter the data and combine it all, someone normalizes it (looks for duplicates and probable duplicates) and then the GOP or somebody who cares posts it as either a pdf or Excel worksheet online, publicizes the link, and asks for people to check and see if their names or addresses were used fraudulently. People check the website, search for their name, search for their address, and notify the contact person of the fraudulent registration.

I would challenge illegible signatures as well.

I'm in KC but I would be willing to help with the normalization. (I can't do data entry due to health conditions.)

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

What does that even mean
That you want to be ignorant of how law firms operate to claim the moral hi ground?

garage mahal said...

That you want to be ignorant of how law firms operate to claim the moral hi ground?

Then explain it wise one. Fen certainly cannot.

alan markus said...

You have to be a registered voter to sign. (I think)

Not so, according to OneWisconsinNow memo:

Recall Petitioner's Rights

Michael Haz said...

Whoa! Vicky McKenna just tweeted that New Meadia Meade will be a guest on her radio show today at 5:06 PM!

Roger J. said...

Wisconsin-or at least Dane County and Madison-are quite the show.

They should just do things the way we do IN Memphis and Shelby county--we do them the old fashioned way--graft and corruption.

Roger J. said...

I should add an addendum: Memphis recently elected A C Wharton as mayor and he has done a great job--I would hope my snark on the above post is not taken as an attack on Mr Wharton

DADvocate said...

It's a good thing Democrats have taken such a firm stance against election fraud in any form. Garage and his ilk are to be commended.

Widely Seen said...

Two questions:
1// Do you have to be a registered voter to sign a recall petition?

2// Where are the registered voter rolls [signatures and addresses] maintained?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

Then explain it wise one. Fen certainly cannot
That law firms are BUSINESSES and can act as Ronin? As long as the cheque is good, we’ll take the case? So the fact that a firm supported “A” one day, does not preclude them from supporting “Not-A” the next? Just because they were involved in an issue on one side doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t take the other side? In fact, having been involved on one side means they have an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of their putative opponents, meaning they can charge a premium for their services. This isn’t to complex a set of concepts is it?

DADvocate said...

Roger J - Do you know David Lillard, or of him?

Roger J. said...

DAD: no I dont--sorry

Class factotum said...

Memphis recently elected A C Wharton as mayor and he has done a great job-

I was so impressed with A.C. when I lived in Memphis. Even though I had already moved when Herenton quit, I was thrilled for my Memphis friends.

PS I still remember what A.C. said in a speech I heard: "Every morning, when I get up and think about our schools, I thank God for Mississippi and Arkansas."

Calypso Facto said...

I think my comment on the other thread about Madison being an abortion should be applied to the entire state.

Wisconsin is no California, ma'am. ;)

Roger J. said...

Dad--Lillard is the State Treasurer IIRC.

Class Factotem: AC Wharton has done an outstanding job for all Memphians--He attends gatherings of our varied community and IMO does a great job for his constituents. A genuinely good and decent man--regretably he has to work with the city council the only prerequisites for that position appear to be being under indictment or have served hard time.

Chuck66 said...

I realize this is highly unscientific, but if you go to the comments sections of the Wisc State Journal or the Milwaukee JS, you realize that there are an a crazy number of....crazies, living in Wisconsin.

Can anyone tell me what's with the bizarre conspiracy theories that dominate the minds of Democrats?

Every story leads into comments about how there is a secret plan to control the state and still money.

MadisonMan said...

I would challenge illegible signatures as well.

Well, there goes my hope for a legal signature. It's genetic. Dad's is hopeless, his sister's is worse.

MadisonMan said...

@RogerJ: Did you see snow earlier this week? I've neglected asking my brother this question.

PaulV said...

Time to recall SOS. Just circulate a recall petition and dems will sign. SOROS spent money to elect SOS because he who counts the votes decides who wins.

Roger J. said...

Mad Man--after a very mild fall it turned into winter this weekend--there was a bit of snow at the first of the week, but it didnt stick--any hint of snow tends to paralyze Memphis, but we appear to have survived--its now a beautiful late all day with temps in the mid 50s

garage mahal said...

So the fact that a firm supported “A” one day, does not preclude them from supporting “Not-A” the next? Just because they were involved in an issue on one side doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t take the other side?

They're not taking " the other side". They [hired by Republicans] are suing the state over the SAME law they helped draft [which Republicans signed into law]. The law states the new maps cannot be used until the fall 2012 election. So they want a do-over, presumably because they don't feel good about their prospects.

logos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
logos said...

Marylynn:

I am out of state, so I am watching from afar. I believe that the USA can answer all threats - as long as the voting system integrity is maintained.

Got a group of friends with laptops and an IT person who can take the tediously copied data and download it all into one data base which can be sorted?

As I understand it, this is basically how True the Vote/King Street Patriots got started.

You'll need a state wide organization of volunteers to check street addresses, etc., but there may be existing groups quite eager to volunteer to assure the signatories of the petitions are valid.

Start a movement now to insist the data be scanned and posted on a web page.

Arthur Thistlepimp said...

Hell of a lot of work to scan and check all of those names and signatures quickly, but it has the positive by-product of giving you a definitive database with which to clean your mailing list of potential Walker supporters/anti-recall votes.

Roger J. said...

I am sure that every locale has its boosters, but I moved to memphis in 2007--it is a dynamic vibrant community. We even have a kosher BBQ sponsored by our large orthodox Jewish community. And we have one of the best symphony orchestras in the country under the leadership of Maestra Mai Ann Chin--I have enjoyed my time in Memphis, and with AC Wharton at the helm I believe he will turn this city around. I do love it here (except for Memphis drivers during bad weather)

logos said...

Arthur:

An organized Army of Davids could enter the data for compilation into a data base. Volunteers plus some funding for a large capacity data base could do it.

Other comments here raise an excellent point: unless the State puts this data on line, how do you know another person hasn't fraudulently signed a resident's name and address?

Michael Haz said...

Whoa! Vicky McKenna just tweeted that New Meadia Meade will be a guest on her radio show today at 5:06 PM!

That's WIBA 1310 in Madison. You can listen online.

Fen said...

Garage: They [hired by Republicans] are suing the state over the SAME law they helped draft [which Republicans signed into law].

Advised. You said they advised the Legislature. Now you weasel into "helped draft".

Shorter: The law firm advised the legislature on a law, they didn't write the law. Now they are suing over the law.

*yawn*

Class factotum said...

Roger J, my husband and I took a trip to Memphis last spring to see my friends there. For two months before the trip, we planned our eating strategy. We started at The Cupboard, hit the BBQ Shop, went to El Mezcal, and returned to The Cupboard. Oh - and the Waffle Shop at Calvary Episcopal.

We even got three pounds of mustard greens from Easy Way.

I miss Memphis so much. I would move back south in a second.

Michael said...

RogerJ: I grew up in Memphis and when I was there, long ago, I believe there were more BBQ places than there were churches and there were more churches than gas stations. You have fallen apart as a society since then with fewer BBQ joints but can be forgiven because the quality of the offering remains. Great Jewish community there, really outstanding. I went to school with the Jews, or they with me, at CBHS.

Roger J. said...

Class Factotum--you did well--my lady friend and I live in East Memphis and are in walking distance of 30 great restaurants--property is relatively in expensive; the U of Memphis has a great music program, most of the concert are free--and then we have the Levitt Shell which has 50 free concert a year (may-june and sep-oct)

and Easy Way is down the street from me.

I love it here. It is a great music center, from Blues on the Bluff, Beale Street and every thing in between. And great restaurants including the BBQ but lots of great ethinic restaurants.

Wouldnt trade it for anything

Roger J. said...

oops: property is INexpensive--Downside is the sales tax rate of 9.25 percent.

logos said...

Fen, based on my reading of this thread, you do the Lord's work by challenging the challenged.

Fen said...

Can anyone tell me what's with the bizarre conspiracy theories that dominate the minds of Democrats?

Sure. They need an Emanuel Goldstein. If he doesn't exist, they'll create him. Democrats are at least self-aware enough to recognize they don't live up to their own standards. So the bizarre conspiracy theories help them pretend they are still better humans than those (imaginary) other guys.

Roger J. said...

We in Memphis have a vibrant arts community--inexpensive for artists to live and work--our restaurants are excellent, and according to my lady, thats so because young chefs can run their own restaurants without having to be sous chefs for major restaurants in larger cities.

Did I mention I am a Memphis booster?

logos said...

It's nice that so many here rave about Memphis.

Any commentary about checking the validity of the recall petitions signatures?

"Magney noted the GAB will flag duplicate signatures in the event they easily discover them. However, the GAB will not be entering the hand-written information into a searchable database to check for duplicates. The recall committee and the incumbent targeted for recall are the ones primarily responsible for catching the extra signatures, he said."

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/11/problem-of-duplicate-signatures-looms-over-recall-process/

Roger J. said...

OK--logos gently reminds me this post is about verifying signatures--and I apologize for my hijacking of this post.

logos said...

Fen: You have nailed it. In addition to the fabricated villian(s), the Left is the best at projecting their own vile tactics onto their opposition. Is their an Alinsky rule for that?

Emmanuel Goldstein is a character in George Orwell's classic dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. He is the number one enemy of the people according to Big Brother and the Party, who heads a mysterious and possibly fictitious anti-party organization called The Brotherhood. Despite being a key part of the story, he is only actually seen and heard on telescreen, and may in fact be nothing more than a useful propaganda fabrication of the Ministry of Truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein

garage mahal said...

Advised. You said they advised the Legislature. Now you weasel into "helped draft".

They were paid 400k for their work by the taxpayers.

In essence, they are arguing the old maps are unconstitutional. So any election after 2002 was unconstitutional?

They be running scared. And I don't blame them.

*Willing to bet "logos" is a paid troll by the MacIver Institute.

logos said...

Roger J:

You are too kind. I ask God for the virtues of tact and diplomacy every night - and will continue to do so.

My apologies to all.

Roger J. said...

logos--no need to apologize--I led the thread astray. Mea culpa

logos said...

GM

You'd lose that bet.

Are you an Officer of Government Motors?

garage mahal said...

LOL

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Hilarious. The law firm bringing a suit against the state's elections board advised the legislature on how to write the very law it is suing over. And the attorney leading the case represented Justice Gableman in 2008 over an ethics charge. These clowns cannot be gone soon enough."

What specifically are you referring to?

Allie said...

Garage Mahal said;

*Willing to bet "logos" is a paid troll by the MacIver Institute.

11/30/11 4:25 PM

Garage, EXACTLY what I was thinking.

MadisonMan said...

@Roger, I really enjoy the Lorraine Motel -- whatever Museum it's been transformed into. Very very interesting. And yes, the food is good. I've also been to a baseball game downtown -- very nice stadium. Even saw Pau Gasol play back before he was traded (he was the only good player on the team, as I recall).

I should visit more often.

Roger J. said...

Professor--as Madison Mentioned, is there a protocal among bloggers about sending traffice to each other's blogs? Assume it unstated if there is but that doesnt obviate informal understandings--Obviously Professor Reynold's blog seems to the linch pin. Professor Jacobson's blog I enjoy but he is a bit more focused on the legal/political side; your blog is much more eclectic--so are there formal understandings about blog references? something like professional courtesy?

garage mahal said...

@Curious

See here.

Roger J. said...

Madison Man--It would be my pleasure to host your visit--I think my email is available thru my profile. If not, it is rjarango@gmail.com

logos said...

So, who in Wisconsin is going to lead the effort to make these recall petitions a matter of public record and smoke out the fraud as True the Vote did in Harris County/Houston? Wasn't "transparency" the clarion call of the 2008 election?

If some enterprising volunteers will come together, access the recall petitions (which are public records), enter the data in an excel spread sheet, sort and cross check names and addresses, Wisconsin has a shot at shining the bright, disinfecting light of day to the validity of the signatures.

Perhaps, that effort could be “crowd-sourced”, as the New York Times called for crowd-sourcing to comb through Sarah Palin’s e-mails.

Here’s the official Harris County Briefing Report dated August 24, 2010, with photocopies of some the actual fraudulent voter registrations.

http://www.tax.co.harris.tx.us/News/PR/2010/voter/ProblemHoustonVotes.pdf

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
So? Why is that hilarious? Walk me through it.

Republicans are suing the state over the same maps they enacted into law. The same law firm that advised them is bringing the suit against the state. That the state already got billed $400,000 for."

If you are talking about the suit the GOP filed today regarding using the new districts for the recall...what's your beef?

If so your premise is false. The suit has nothing to do with the maps that were drawn under the legislation they advised on, they simply want new the redistricting maps used for the recall. The Dems want the old maps used.

Are you an idiot or a liar?

MadisonMan said...

That's a nice offer, but I'm usually at the brother's when I visit.

garage mahal said...

If you are talking about the suit the GOP filed today regarding using the new districts for the recall...what's your beef?

They filed again today? What now?

Anyways, from the link I just sent you:

"That law was explicit in saying the new maps would take effect for recall elections starting in the fall of 2012".

Roger J. said...

Madison Man--then lets get together for a drink if your schedule permits.

Best

Roger

MadisonMan said...

I'm listening to Meade, and it's too much history from back in February, and now I have to catch my bus to get home in time for a meeting.

Maybe it'll get more interesting -- would've loved to hear them talk about the alder.

Carol_Herman said...

Oh, yeah. The guy with the big gap between his two front teeth.

As to doing a database what can be bad? You can sell signatures with addresses attached to them.

But who is gonna read the handwriting?

And, what if there's a variety of ways you can sign your name? Let's say you pick an initial, and put it in front of "Ann." Then you can sign, I guess. Maiden name. Married name. Mother's maiden name.

How illegal to those who "sign twice?" They could do it on different days. Saying they thought it was "different petitions," if asked.

Come election day ... with millions of voters living in the State of Wisconsin ... the recall could fail on its face.

Let alone 2012 is the BIG ONE! Even for people who don't ordinarily vote ... the tend to come out for presidential elections.

Right now? Some PR firm is making money thinking up these "headlines." Are you scared, yet?

logos said...

"Some PR firm is making money thinking up these "headlines." Are you scared, yet?"

Here's a headline for you. Looks like it was composed by a journalist:

Harris County Registrar investigates voter registration irregularities .

by Ron Trevino/11 News

http://www.khou.com/news/local/-Harris-County-Registrar-investigates-voter-registration-irregularities-101433479.html

Coincidentally, the day after the Registrar announced he was turning the evidence over to the DA, all Harris County voting machines were destroyed in a fire.

"On the morning of Aug. 27, a three-alarm fire destroyed almost all of Harris County’s voting machines, throwing the upcoming Nov. 2 election into turmoil. While the cause wasn’t determined, the $40 million blaze, according to press reports, means election officials will be focused on creating a whole new voting system in six weeks."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/23/voter-fraud-houston-tea-party-truethevote-texas/#ixzz1fDDAkmqP

SCARED YET?

Curious George said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

@roger There's no protocol. I just link to what interests me, go back to sites that have been interesting in the past, and click through from Site Meter to sites that have sent me traffic. A good way to get me to check out your blog and try to find something to link is to link to something of mine. It's all about making these connections.

But above all: be interesting!

Jay said...

"garage mahal said...
"That law was explicit in saying the new maps would take effect for recall elections starting in the fall of 2012".


Your beclowing is epic and non-stop.

Carnifex said...

And when the governments list, the Democrat list, and the Republican list do not match, what then? I suggest a pay-per-view steel cage death match a la wrestling. Make some money off that crazed whorehouse you badgers call politics.

The problem with the system we have today is one side plays with no rules whatsoever. Just win baby! The other side is so odious that the ends justify the means.

The opposition is invested in doing things the "right way". They can't admit the system is broken, because doing things the right way is the system.

If you read this post and agree that the other side is cheating then look again I never mentioned which side is which, and THAT is the problem.

The lack of trust in our fellow citizens that is driven by the media is tearing this country apart.

I don't like Obama. Not because he's black, or a Democrat, or even a Socialist. He's not even anti-American. He is just ineffectual. His economic policies fail in the real world. His enviromental policies are childish in their vision. And his leadership is non-existant.

How any Liberal can be happy with him is beyond me. He had a supermajority in the congress, and still could only pass a half-assed health care bill.

Every other thing he has accomplished has been by Presidential fiat, to be overturned with a new president.

garage mahal said...

But it's NOT A LAW. It's A BILL!

When Walker signed the two redistricting bills, they became law. They also changed state law last August that required local governments to draw their ward lines first, because they were so scared shitless of recalls and needed to ram the gerrymandering bills through. So I'm afraid the only one failing here is you.

Chuck66 said...

Carnifix, Crazy Al Franken won in Minnesota by manipulating absentee ballots and how questionable votes were counted.

We can thank Algore for coming up with the idea of using the courts to try to steal a close election.

DADvocate said...

Roger J - Used to be a Shelby County commissioner. Thought you might have heard of him.

DADvocate said...

I moved to memphis in 2007-

OK. That explains it. Thanks.

andinista said...

The rot has set in in Wisconsin.

FTA: “While it is not illegal to sign more than once, we do not suggest people sign a second time unless they have good reason to believe the first petition they signed was somehow fraudulent,” Reid Magney, GAB Spokesman.

I cannot fathom how a dedicated and honorable public servant would ever issue that weasel-worded quote, except for to provide cover for every progressive in Dane and Milwaukee counties.

What he should have said: Don't do it! Signing a petition twice destroys public confidence in the integrity of our elections. It is your obligation as a registered voter to honorably follow our election rules, to preserve public confidence in the legitimacy of our government, that secures the rights of We the People.

It's out in the open now: progressive ends justify any behavior. Any behavior.

Carol_Herman said...

Let's say the republican party decides to run with Newt. If not Romney. In 2012.

I've already picked my Trifecta. The republicans come in 3rd.

But what if it also means "low turnout?" (Bob Dole's run wasn't a "barn burner," ya know?)

And, then you come to the toss up state. one of 12. WISCONSIN! And, you have Walker (let's say), up for recall, too.)

So, there ya go.

Not too much excitement for the republican party. But a barn burner of an election for Wisconsin!

It's the "reverse" of coattails.

If you have to pad out 300,000 signatures ... you should view it from the prospective of "unintended consequences."

Like OWS become OCCU-FAIL.

You didn't even need to stand out in the cold to know this was going to happen.

garage mahal said...

It's out in the open now: progressive ends justify any behavior. Any behavior.

Uh, progressives have nothing to do with state law.

Carol_Herman said...

Okay. What happens if you get "exactly" 300,000 signers. How many to a page? It's been awhile since I've had a petition to sign thrust at me. But it's not "one to a page!"

And, NOT to run a database is STUPID.

Remember Clark's call to "SUSAN?" ("SUCH A SHAME.") And, Clark didn't win, either.

So you've got this list. With personal details of where you live. You name isn't just eligibly scribbled. You've also got to PRINT IT. And, add your zip code. What if you're asked for your phone number?

Do you know what a 300,000 people list is WORTH?

Gone are the days that you could win much by generating "publicity" the old fashioned way. By news reports.

We've got the Internet.

Why be afraid?

andinista said...

Progressive behavior, as enabled by Reid:

First week: "John Q. Public, 12345 HisStreet, Madison, WI, 23456".

Next week ol' John Q has bidness in Milwaukee, sees a petition, signs it: "Heywood J. Blomi, 2345 PickAStreet, Milwaukee, WI, 24567".

And so it goes. Because they know that the SoS will only spot check the law-abiding cities like Waukesha, then extrapolate and declare it good.

The SoS will take two days, and then dare anybody to spin up a counter-check and challenge in the remaining eight. Or even better, take eight, and give 'em two.

Accept it. There are no longer any honorable, do their duty, progressive public servants. All is faction now.

garage mahal said...

Wow. The Walker trolls are out in force.

andinista said...

Don't live anywhere near Wisconsin. There's not much difference between Pubs and Dems, they are all interested only in taking the people's money and giving it to their friends, which is how they define the public good.

Just pretty much convinced that our governments are completely corrupted. And the agencies, they are so badly led that they have abandoned their missions, and work only for their survival and enrichment.

And if a person compares two recent popular public movements, it's clear only one is law-abiding, and respects the obligations of citizenship and neighborliness.

Not a troll. Just say what I gotta say about something, and then get off the stage and leave it to others to chew the fat. If you want a conversation, convince me I overlooked something, don't ad hom me.

Kirk Parker said...

Roger J.,

Re Beale Street: a young friend of mine (ok, not so young but a lot younger than I am) plays there frequently with his current band. He and a couple of his high-school buddies first went to Nashville as an Elvis Tribute Band, and played there for quite a while. They're no longer together, but all three are still in Memphis and/or Nashville doing basically rockabilly stuff. Very fun.

AllenS said...

Even if the recall petition has enough signatures, fake or real, there will still have to be an election. The Democrats will have to nominate someone. That process should be entertaining. Then, when people actually have to cast a vote, they'll have to show ID and be registered. Absentee ballots will be suspect as usual.

AllenS said...

How funny would it be if the recall effort gets 1,000,000 signatures, then, when the election actually happens, the Democrat only gets about 300,000 votes?

Mark said...

Funny thing ... these are the exact same rules the prior recalls this summer were done under.

Same verification, same rules ... but somehow, MacIver and the rest weren't raising these issues on the Republican submitted recalls.

Even though more signatures were thrown out from the R vs. D Senate recalls.

Only now, when their own dirty tricks are in the past - do we hear about dirty tricks.

Sorry Repubs ... if the system was fine with you this summer, it's fine now.

--

Oh, and AllenS ... please skip threads where you demonstrably are clueless.

Even Kloppenburg got 700,000+ votes .... fall 2010 Barrett got 1,000,000+.

I feel stupider for having read your uninformed verbal vomit.

Calypso Facto said...

Saw Russ Feingold out to dinner last night with a table of cronies. Sure looked like a campaign strategy session to me...

As I said in a previous thread, I'm sure he'll read the recall petition tea leaves and then if there's a good shot declare that he's been "duty compelled" to run.

garage mahal said...

@Calypso
Where at? I never see anybody when I go downtown. Which isn't very often.

Calypso Facto said...

garage: Smoky's

Probably figured it'd be quiet (it was) and the wait staff is too old to overhear anything!

garage mahal said...

If Feingold did end up running after clearly stating he would not, I would lose all respect for the guy.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
But it's NOT A LAW. It's A BILL!

When Walker signed the two redistricting bills, they became law. They also changed state law last August that required local governments to draw their ward lines first, because they were so scared shitless of recalls and needed to ram the gerrymandering bills through. So I'm afraid the only one failing here is you."

I was speaking of the legislation pending to change the rules for recalls of Senators. That legislation has moved the Democrats to file suit, and the GOP has responded in kind.

BTW, this is the same kinda deal that we saw with Gore/Bush...the Democrats sued over the ballots that they approved. 'm guessing you had no problem with that.

But your earlier premise is not factual...the GOP is not saying that the old districts were unconstitutional prior to 2012, but that they are NOW. Redistricting is a constitutional requirement both at the state and federal level. I do see their argument. The new district maps are now being used for representation, but not for an upcoming recall vote?

What I don't buy is this bullshit:

“How is it fair that a municipality can vote in a recall election that didn’t have the opportunity to vote in the general election in the first place?” Erpenbach said. “You are essentially treating these like general elections, not recall elections.”

Doesn't pass the laugh test or logic test.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/daily-cardinal/news/article_2b0001c2-045c-11e1-99ac-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1fILiAdpL

Calypso Facto said...

If Feingold did end up running after clearly stating he would not, I would lose all respect for the guy.

His sponsorship of the un-Constitutional McCain-Feingold "Incumbent Protection" Act (BCRA) soured me on him substantially. And the fact that he's owned lock, stock, and barrel by the teachers unions. From OpenSecrets:

Industry Favorite
Russ Feingold is a top recipient from the following industries for the 2005 - 2010 election cycle:

Education (#1)
Foreign Policy (#1)
Teachers unions (#1)
Democratic/Liberal (#2)

garage mahal said...

You don't have to worry about Feingold in office or teachers unions any longer.

Spectrum received 4 million from WEDC, for staying in Wisc, even though they weren't planning on leaving. You guys get any sugar? We didn't.

gregq said...

This is criminally wrong, but stupid. The opponents will do a much tougher job vetting the signatures than the "progressive" POS La Folette. And if they need help setting up the databases to do the checks, they should shoot me an email. I normally charge a lot for such work, but for such a good cause, I'll do it for free.

Database 1: List of all registered voters, with names and addresses.

Database 2: List of validated signatures.

Database 3: List of duplicates, and the sheets they came from.

Database 4: List of signatures / addresses that do not match the registered voter DB, and the sheets they came from.

Process: Get a signature, run the name and address through database 1. If it doesn't match, add it to DB 4. If it does, check to see if it's already in DB 2. If it is, add it to DB 3. If not, add it to DB 2.

You can set the whole system up on pretty much any laptop bought in the last year or two. Every night, you have all the laptops connect to a central system that does another sweep through DB 2 finding more duplicates, every morning you have all the laptops connect and download the latest versions of DBs 1 and 2.

Bonus: the proponents get hit with the burden of proof on every signature where sloppy writing or sloppy data entry by La Folette's temps entered the wrong information. And when they clean up those problems, a good quarter of the time it will probably turn out to be someone who's already in the DB, so they will have wasted their time validating a duplicate. :-)

Look, I'd like to see the recall take place, because I think Walker will crush his opponent (even Russ), and I think it would do a lot of good for Walker to have two months where he gets to point out all the benefits of the law, and all the harms the PEUs were doing that they no longer get to do. So I want the recall to happen.

But that doesn't mean I think we should reward criminal behavior. And that's what La Folette is supporting, and that's what the recall supporters are encouraging.

Calypso Facto said...

You guys get any sugar? We didn't.

Nah. Even with millions in property taxes we never get a second look because we don't employee enough people.

Government is incentivizing us to fire our highly paid/fully benefitted employees and re-hire twice the number of low wage staffers, right? Basically, don't get me started on economic development incentives!

gregq said...

Cornroaster:

The opponents could certainly set up their databases to be publicly accessible (this, however, would require a higher powered computer setup. However, GoDaddy offers those, and for the month or two that it would be needed you're looking at a total cost (including domain registration) of under $200).

The searches I would have that system do:

1: Search valid signatures by name
2: Search valid signatures by address
3: List of addresses with the most signatures (could be used for data mining looking for fraudulent voter registrations).
4: 1, 2 & 3 for Duplicates and for invalid signatures, with a count of how many time the signatures was found

Other suggestions?

garage mahal said...

Government is incentivizing us to fire our highly paid/fully benefitted employees and re-hire twice the number of low wage staffers, right?

Yup. Sure sounds like it. I know someone that works at Spectrum. I'll try to get the skinny.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Spectrum received 4 million from WEDC, for staying in Wisc, even though they weren't planning on leaving. You guys get any sugar? We didn't."

This is a false statement as usual. Spectrum received a loan. It wasn't "to stay". The particulars:

"The loan does not need to be repaid if Spectrum maintains 470 jobs in Madison and invests $40 million in its state operations by Oct. 1, 2016."

How many jobs did these guys shed during the Doyle regime.

Curious George said...

"Calypso Facto said...
Government is incentivizing us to fire our highly paid/fully benefitted employees and re-hire twice the number of low wage staffers, right? Basically, don't get me started on economic development incentives!"

Would love to hear the details of this. What government. What program?

Calypso Facto said...

CG: Probably a topic for lengthy discussion elsewhere, but let's start with city/regional/state economic development groups so focused on number of employees that they lose sight of capital investment or quality of the jobs. Also the favored treatment of new or from-out-of-state businesses over established in-state firms. Some of our competitors have been given money for being "new" that we're not entitled to. And yes, having built 2 new major projects in the past 2 years and in the middle of a 3rd, this is from my personal experience, not Occupy Madison literature.

I'm not opposed to the Rayovac/Spectrum forgivable loan in specific as much as I think the whole system stinks, but I realize that unfortunately that's how the game is played right now.

Curious George said...

Calypso Facto said...
CG: Probably a topic for lengthy discussion elsewhere, but let's start with city/regional/state economic development groups so focused on number of employees that they lose sight of capital investment or quality of the jobs. Also the favored treatment of new or from-out-of-state businesses over established in-state firms. Some of our competitors have been given money for being "new" that we're not entitled to. And yes, having built 2 new major projects in the past 2 years and in the middle of a 3rd, this is from my personal experience, not Occupy Madison literature.

I'm not opposed to the Rayovac/Spectrum forgivable loan in specific as much as I think the whole system stinks, but I realize that unfortunately that's how the game is played right now.

12/1/11 12:09 PM"

In general I'm in agreement, there will always be winners and losers in government programs. It is however how the game is played. At least we are playing too now. Look at the jobs we lost with Harley, Briggs, etc.