April 25, 2012

Oral argument in the Supreme Court today over Arizona's approach to illegal immigration.

I'll get to the transcript later today. Right now, you can follow the live blog at the Wall Street Journal. Here's the 10:27 update:
Outside, a group of clergy in white robes led opponents of the Arizona law in what they called a Jericho Walk around the Supreme Court.

The procession is reference to the biblical story of Joshua, who led the Israelites around the enemy city of Jericho seven times before blowing trumpets and shouting, bringing down the city’s walls.
What?! Are they asking God to bring down the Supreme Court? I'm just going to assume the wall in question is the "wall" between the U.S. and Mexico, which they'd like to see come down. But the symbolism directs God to the Court as the object of destruction. Good Lord, what is wrong with people? Get your symbols straight.

50 comments:

Expat(ish) said...

Oh, I thought at first you said "Cymbals" and were making a music joke.

My Emily Litella moment for today.

_XC

traditionalguy said...

In the real Jericho walk the marchers were prohibited from speaking a word the first 6 times. And they were Jews. I can't imagine Debbie Wasserman Schultz marching without speaking for 6 days.

Maybe they need a Cinqo De Mayo march with a miramba band finally shouting ole.

edutcher said...

If it's a Jericho Walk, I hope it's led by a guy named Joshua (of course, if there's a girl named Rahab among them, the whole thing might get raided).

Slightly OT: Mickey Kaus was writing on the Pew report that illegal immigration has stopped and noted that the time when the slowdown started seems to be when people rejected Dubya's (Rove's, really) attempt at "comprehensive immigration reform".

Interesting if so, although other reports (for those who distrust Pew) have noted the flow was abating in the same time period and people were even going back to Mexico.

Mary Beth said...

The walls of injustice.

Andy R. said...

Good Lord, what is wrong with people? Get your symbols straight.

Religious people not making any sense? This is my surprised face.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Maybe someone can explain why Mexicans should not be subject to our immigration laws as opposed to any other nationality that wishes to come here?

ricpic said...

How dare Arizona interfere with the coming One World Borderless State!!

ricpic said...

hatboy's surprised face = his solemn face = his doofus face.

Shanna said...

Maybe someone can explain why Mexicans should not be subject to our immigration laws as opposed to any other nationality that wishes to come here?

If people really want the 'walls to come down' between mexico and the us, does that mean they want us to take over mexico and all become one?

edutcher said...

Andy R. said...

Good Lord, what is wrong with people? Get your symbols straight.

Religious people not making any sense? This is my surprised face.


This from the guy who Occupied Hotlanta. And I'm still waiting for him to make sense.

On anything.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Maybe someone can explain why Mexicans should not be subject to our immigration laws as opposed to any other nationality that wishes to come here?

Because the country's run by a bunch of guilt-ridden Liberals who still feel obliged to apologize for the Mexican War?

Frankly, they're lucky we didn't take everything down to Vera Cruz and across to Sonora.

Chuck66 said...

I am a pretty conservative Christian. I have no patence for left wing Christians. Many of those churches are more liberal political social clubs than traditional religious institutions.

Comanche Voter said...

If they're trying to bring down the walls of the Supreme Court, they sure as heck aren't Catholic clergymen.

Frankly I think these twits are secularists who rented robes for the occasion---a classic false flag operation.

But then your mileage--and tolerance--may varyk.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I would think Andy R would support a tough border enforcement considering the vast majority of Mexican immigrants are pretty devout Roman Catholics.

EDH said...

Right now, Mexicans are fleeing the Obama economy.

Good Lord, what is wrong with people?

Carol said...

when the slowdown started seems to be when people rejected Dubya's (Rove's, really) attempt at "comprehensive immigration reform".

Mickey seemed to miss the collosal housing bust and recession that happened at the same time.

Robert said...

I thought only the bad racist people wore white robes. It is SO hard to keep up with the latest daily outrage.

karrde said...

And I thought the Right Wing had a monopoly on religious nut-cases.

Or is opposition to Arizona's policy towards illegal immigrants now a Right Wing thing?

Whichever it is, this is definitely nutty.

edutcher said...

Carol said...

when the slowdown started seems to be when people rejected Dubya's (Rove's, really) attempt at "comprehensive immigration reform".

Mickey seemed to miss the collosal housing bust and recession that happened at the same time.


No, that was a year or two later.

The trend was noticed before the Crash in '08. Michael Barone wrote on this and noted birth rates in Mexico were slowing and predicted this would happen.

WV "iclever" What Hatman thinks he is.

Bender said...

If it is a religious question, then they would do well to go down to the southern border of Mexico and protest their immigration policies, which are much more strict than those of the United States.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... then they would do well to go down to the southern border of Mexico and protest their immigration policies, which are much more strict than those of the United States..."

Well that's different.....

Hoosier Daddy said...

I'm betting these robed folks are clergy in the same sense Reverend Jackson and Reverend Sharpton are 'clergy'.

Mitchell said...

Bringing down the Supreme Court is going too far but it would be kind of cool to see it levitate, vibrate, and turn orange.

Rliyen said...

If "vanilla" is a racial epithet, can we crackers use it exclusively and castigate any other race that tries to use it?

Because that would be AWESOME.

'Nilla, PLEASE!

Hagar said...

60 years ago, we were about equally poor on both sides of the border. People drifted back and forth across it much as they always had, and the locals thought the border was just another idea of those crazy Anglos - like the yellow stripes they insisted on painting down the middle of the all the highways, etc.

Today, the situation is a bit different, especially since we are under attack from hostile people from elsewhere in the world, and we do need to get some control of our borders.

However, the first thing we need is to set all the Democrats down and get them to agree that the word "illegal" indeed means illegal with all that this entails. Get that, and we can begin discussing what to do about the 10-12 million "undocumented" individuals already here.

Call it what you want, but most are not going to "go back." That just is not going to happen, so we need to come up with some reasonably rational solution to regularize the situation.

And keep in mind that it was not the "illegals" that ran this country like a banana republic for the last 50 years or so. This mess is our own fault, and it is up to us to fix it.

leslyn said...

The symbolism is easy. They want to bring the law down.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be symbolism. It would be literalism, hmmm?

Erika said...

Hagar--also, sixty years ago there wasn't a cornucopia of public benefits drawing aliens into the estados Unidos, either.

Sigivald said...

You'd think clergymen, especially, would know that.

(Contra Andy R., it's not the norm for religious people to make no sense - it's the norm for them to not be atheists.

It is weird for them to make nonsense of the tales of their own religion, just as it'd be weird for an evolution-junkie atheist* to get evolutionary speciation spectacularly wrong.)

(* The sort of person who's always posting Atheism Is Science Is Awesome content on Facebook, for instance.

Full disclosure: I'm an atheist, and scientifically minded. Just not quite that kind.

I think it's hilarious the way the human tendency towards religious-ish belief and loyalty gets directed to anti-religion.

Oh, irony.)

Hagar said...

@Erika,
True, but that is also our insanity. It is inherent in the word "illegal" that anyone here illegally is not eligible for any such benefits, and in fact any public official who authorizes oe executes payments or services to illegal immigrants are themselves guilty of dereliction of duty, malfeasance in office, etc., a.s.o.

vet66 said...

My observations come from living and working on the border in the Tucson/Nogales sector. The struggling economy has closed many small businesses that provided employment to mexicans. A few political raids have caused problems for some employees who were lax in verifying forged documents or hiring illegals without checking. Many moved to California where they can vote and received EBD cards for groceries and various programs that arguably buy votes through entitlement programs. I used to make it a point to go to south Tucson on Cinco de Mayo for mexican food but don't do so anymore. The la raza and reconquista types have poisoned that well with their disrespect and flag desecration. Catholicism is still an important part of everyday life in Mexico. Even the drug lords go to church Living poor in the U.S. is still better than living VERY POOR in Mexico and worrying about cartel violence crossfire.

Hagar said...

Plus, I do not think it so much the benefits that draw the "illegals," though, of course, "if those crazy Gringos do that, it must be because they somehow want to do that for us, right?", as much as simple economics.

Several left-leaning Mexican PRI presidents ran that country's economy into the ground, and the young people picked up and left for where the jobs where - in the U.S., which was comparatively booming for most of the time.

Not much different from the Scandihoovians that left the north countries in droves in the second half of the 19th century because the climate got colder, harvests failed, and they were starving.

Ann Althouse said...

"Maybe someone can explain why Mexicans should not be subject to our immigration laws as opposed to any other nationality that wishes to come here?"

I think it's that those of us who are inclined to show mercy feel more merciful to people who are closer by and, perhaps more important, when the people who are close by can simply walk into our country, it requires more brutality to keep them out, and so the same level of mercy applies differently to what is different situation.

Ann Althouse said...

"The symbolism is easy. They want to bring the law down."

The law is not a wall. Address the symbolism of the wall that should come tumbling down. What wall?

Ann Althouse said...

In a country where we saw buildings knocked down by people who based their destructive impulse on God's will, I do not appreciate this religious symbolism at all.

Peter said...

So what happens when the Walls of Jericho crowd run into the "Imagine there's no country ... no religion too" crowd?

Robert Cook said...

"I am a pretty conservative Christian. I have no patence for left wing Christians."

Then you're not a Christian.

Paddy O said...

Hi, your friendly neighborhood semi-Evangelical here, to talk to you a little bit about Christianese. Today's phrase: Jericho Walk.

Jericho Walks do indeed derive from that great story of Joshua, Israel, Jericho and the (s)trumpet.

In common church parlance, however, this isn't about breaking down physical walls so we can invade and sack an enemy city. It comes out of prayer walks and is a liturgical movement oriented expression of prayer that breaks down strongholds and spiritual opposition. It's very common for church planters or church leaders seeking renewal or congregations wanting to address a particular community issue to use Jericho walks as a way of encircling the issue in prayer.

It's symbolic in a way, but it's also very much expressing a belief that the spiritual and physical share reality, so that strongholds and conversations that are established can be transformed by persistent proactive prayer.

It's more of a Pentecostal thing but no doubt exists broadly in a lot of different traditions. In other words, it's something that is pretty common if you're in Evangelical/Pentecostal churches.

chickenlittle said...

I think it's that those of us who are inclined to show mercy feel more merciful to people who are closer by and, perhaps more important, when the people who are close by can simply walk into our country, it requires more brutality to keep them out, and so the same level of mercy applies differently to what is different situation.

In the heyday of illegal immigration (at least in my neighborhood), illegals were from Central America and had walked all the way through Mexico. "Mexican" is a convenient rubric for people of color.

Paddy O said...

Googling the phrase Jericho Walk shows how it's pretty wide-ranging in application.

Robert Cook said...

"Today...we are under attack from hostile people from elsewhere in the world...."

No. Nearly 11 years ago we were attacked by a small band of now-dead stateless terrorists, and in the decade since, to no responsive purpose, we have subjected peoples elsewhere in the world to our hostile attacks.

Fen said...

I think it's that those of us who are inclined to show mercy feel more merciful to people who are closer by and, perhaps more important, when the people who are close by can simply walk into our country, it requires more brutality to keep them out, and so the same level of mercy applies differently to what is different situation.

What about the homeless in your own city? Wouldn't it be mericful to let them wander into your house? Wouldn't it be brutal to enforce tresspass laws? How is that any different from controling our border?

Hagar said...

I think it's that those of us who are inclined to show mercy feel more merciful to people who are closer by and, perhaps more important, when the people who are close by can simply walk into our country, it requires more brutality to keep them out, and so the same level of mercy applies differently to what is different situation.

There is a tendency to conflate all "Hispanics" with Mexicans, and that a lot of "Mexicans" in fact are Filipinos, Ecuadoran Inkas, and whatever. However, it is a fact that most of the "illegals" indeed are Mexican nationals, simply because Mexico is our neighboring country, and it is such a large one.

We do not bother so much with the Canadian border, partly because we tend to think of Canada as a very large national park on our northern border, just a very few nice people like Mort Zuckermann and Alex Trebek have come from there, and the Canadians will probably eventually see reason and request annexation, anyway.

cold pizza said...

I prefer the symbollism of Gadianton Robbers. Secret societies composed of people taking oaths to protect each other while suborning the government. Not that this could happen in real life. -CP

Alex said...

Either the law matters or it doesn't. This is not about how you FEEL professor.

Kirk Parker said...

Rliyen,


Wazzup, nillaz???



Hagar,

"because we tend to think of Canada as a very large national park on our northern border"

Well, what *do* you think it is?

Scott M said...

Well, what *do* you think it is?

America's attic?

traditionalguy said...

It is analogous to the Joshua lead 7 days of marches.

Jericho was the first fortified city that Joshua's 12 spies scouted out for invasion and removal of the existing Canaanite population and stealing their property.

The Hebrew spies got themselves hidden on Rahab's roof and later let down from her window in the wall for which she got a red thread in her windows to escape the slaughter for her loyalty.

Today's marchers are openly saying that they plan to attack and displace the current Arizona population and steal their stuff.

Obama aiding and abetting this is more 5th columnist treason out of Barack The Snake. The SCOTUS may see the truth of his plans behind the charade. Boy will Barack the Snake get mad at them then.

BarryD said...

Rahab, apparently, lives in Colombia now.

This sounds like a toga party without the fun. Someone needs to bring them some fun.

BTW I have never met a Jewish or fundy Christian girl named Rahab, despite her being a Biblical heroine. Go figure!

David R. Graham said...

"What?! Are they asking God to bring down the Supreme Court? I'm just going to assume the wall in question is the "wall" between the U.S. and Mexico, which they'd like to see come down. But the symbolism directs God to the Court as the object of destruction. Good Lord, what is wrong with people? Get your symbols straight."

I've been telling them this for decades. Thanks for doing likewise.

Fact one of modern era and continuing: the role of parochial clergy, in every religion, is obsolete and therefore toxic only.

Steve said...

If the marchers are the Israelites, and the Supreme Court is Jericho, then Rahab is within the court. Which of the justices is Rahab? She was described as a prostitute in translations from the Hebrew. She was also the ancestor of Jesus. A little metaphorical fun for both sides.

Suburbanbanshee said...

Seeing as this week is the Greater Rogation Day, I'd say these folks are just pining for a good old Rogation Procession, aka "beating the bounds" of one's parish in a procession of the priest, parish officers, and anybody else who wanted to come along. There was prayer for the crops and the parish, prayer for protection against bad stuff, symbolic subjection of the devil to Jesus Christ, and lots of little kids being taught the landmarks of the parish boundaries.

Now _that_ is encircling something in prayer. So yeah, these Jericho walks seem to be a dim reminiscence of Rogation processions in the Catholic, Episcopal, and Methodist traditions. (Probably Methodist mostly, if Jericho walks come from Pentecostal folks.)