April 15, 2012

The present-day use of the recall in Wisconsin is far out of line with the intent of its framers.

Christian Schneider has a detailed history of the amendment to the Wisconsin constitution:
During the debate of the recall amendment, progressives argued that the recall was appropriate because it would rarely be used. That argument is now forever moot.



Take, for example the pending recall election against Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, who in his last three elections has received 68 percent, 97 percent (unopposed), and 69 percent of the vote in his district. It is difficult to find an elected official with more popular support among his constituents. Yet in Wisconsin in 2012, every Senate district has more than enough members of the opposite party to force a recall, and technology makes them easy to find and to mobilize. If a recall can be used against an elected official as popular in his district as Scott Fitzgerald, it can be used against anyone; and likely will, making Wisconsin a state of perpetual elections.

This is becoming evident, with the effort by conservative groups to recall two senators who, in March blocked passage of a bill to create an iron ore mine in northern Wisconsin. These recall efforts are based not on “corruption” or malfeasance in office, but simply a disagreement on a policy matter.

It appears that no longer will the recall be used judiciously, and increasingly, recalls will become the tool of special interests—whose influence Bob La Follette spent his entire career trying to reduce. Instead of keeping elected officials beholden to the people, recalls keep them beholden to a single moneyed interest group that can force their recall at any time. This is exactly the opposite of what the amendment intended to do.
Let's repeal the recall.

56 comments:

rhhardin said...

It appears that no longer will the recall be used judiciously,

I'd avoid judiciously. It makes you wonder what it means in Wisconsin.

rhhardin said...

That argument is now forever moot.

Moot makes no sense, unless moot means wrong, a sense it can easily drift into via cliche.

A confusion with mute?

AllieOop said...

Rebuttal to this article by a Marquette Law School Professor, The Use and Misuse of History

Credit to Garage Mahal for finding this article. Posted on a different thread. Sorry of someone already posted this on this thread.

Alex said...

Look if Wisconsin wants to be a banana state that's their problem. If they're ok with being the laughinstock of the nation, so bet it.

edutcher said...

Reminiscent of the abuse of the AK law allowing residents to sue the governor.

WV "rovied" An act or political strategem executed in secret and calculated to drive Leftists insane with frustration and hatred.

Usually greeted with, ", you magnificent bastard", by Conservatives, Republicans, and no small number of Libertarians when finally revealed on the Electric Radio and Internet.

Beta Rube said...

So does Ms. Oop recommend endless election cycles for the venting of grievances by the losers? Is this the new, improved "progressive" way to run our fine state?

If close to 70% isn't enough for Fitzgerald, a man who has broken no laws or shown any signs of corruption, what is the threshold?

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Don't Tread 2012 said...

Following the 'logic' of the left, the intent of the framers either 1. cannot be known or 2. is evolutionary in nature. I'm guessing its #2.

'Judiciously' means perhaps whatever the 'democratic' mob/special interest group that mobilizes decides to do.

I would be for repeal, or at least look to create an environment where a recall could only take place under extraordinary circumstances.

Not what we see in your state of Wisconsin.

Alex said...

So Sarah Palin was hounded out of office based on a corrupt ethics law and now Scott Walker will be hounded out of office on a corrupt recall law.

Alex said...

DT2012 - isn't it funny how the left screams how horrible the 2A is but when it comes to the WI state constitution on recalls, it's a holy writ.

Ann Althouse said...

@alley The linked piece deals with the point about expecting the recall mainly to be used against judges, which isn't what I've highlighted here.

Alex said...

Where is the consistency? Either a Constitution is holy writ or it isn't.

Jay said...

Gee, ya think?

The entire reason for this recall is because those receiving public monies (more than their contribution and capabilities dictate) want to continue receiving said monies in greater percentages.

Which is the antithesis of representative government.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Alex, cafeteria constitutionality is a liberal bellwether. Hence, the dissonance they create in a country that is supposed to be a nation of laws.

Jess said...

I suggested this once before, but here I go again: If an elected official survives a recall election, his or her term of office should start over, i.e. 4 years from June for Walker, or whoever the subject or the recall election might be. That way, opponents who are being capricious in the use of this would risk extending the term of the object of their disgust, and would be less likely to try if their reason was just political disagreement.

leslyn said...

Three times? Three times against a sitting governor, and that is not "judicious" use??

Yes I know there are legislators involved, but their recall is directly a function of the recall against Walker. So if anything is moot, that argument is.

And you well know that whatever you want to interpret as "intent" of original proponents, the plain language of the statute, or in this case the Constitution, prevails.

Hagar said...

Jess,

4 years + time to the next regular election date.

edutcher said...

Alex said...

So Sarah Palin was hounded out of office based on a corrupt ethics law and now Scott Walker will be hounded out of office on a corrupt recall law.

Not corrupt, but applied for corrupt means.

There is a difference.

Hagar said...

leslyn,

If Wisconsin in this cycle have tried to recall more state officers than the entire nation has in 223 years, I would say that indicates something is amiss in Wisconsin!

Maguro said...

Maybe not, but it's a "living document", so it's all good. And who cares what those dead white male patriarchical heteronormative oppressors intended, anyway?

Alex said...

So what happens if no Republicans are recalled? My bet is that the liberals keep forcing recall elections every year because they can.

EDH said...

I wonder if Marquette University Law professor Edward A. Fallone invokes Orwell in every disagreement about legislative history and intent?

Whatever the merits and faults of each man's historical analysis, just look at how much space he devotes to demonizing Schneider.

Best if a jackass like that stays out of the courtroom.

In his novel 1984, George Orwell imagined a future world where a government at war could switch allegiances with the country’s enemies and allies and a docile public would accept the revised version of history unquestioningly. Orwell, a keen observer of the modern world, recognized that history itself could be manufactured and manipulated in the service of broader purposes...

George Orwell was amazingly prescient. He understood how the public’s understanding of history could be manipulated by propaganda, and how history itself has no existence except in the minds of the masses. The debate over the Wisconsin Recalls provides all of us with an opportunity to observe the ongoing attempt to re-write history right before our eyes.


Liberals everywhere are becoming unglued. They see the future and it says...

Romney.

MadisonMan said...

the recall was appropriate because it would rarely be used. That argument is now forever moot.

Why is one year's worth of behavior striking down the notion of recalls rarely being used in the future? Or to put it another way -- how accurate is a forecast going years out into the future that is based on the behavior of the past year? Answer: Not accurate at all.

You might as well convince yourself that all Marches in the US will now be very warm because this past March was.

leslyn said...

Hagar said...

leslyn, If Wisconsin in this cycle have tried to recall more state officers than the entire nation has in 223 years, I would say that indicates something is amiss in Wisconsin! 4/15/12 4:43 P.M.

You're right.

Jess said...

Hagar@4:38

That works for me.

Steve Koch said...

The dems have used the recall election very effectively in Wisconsin. Believe it or not, once upon a time the consensus among non dems on this blog was that dems were wasting their time with these recall elections. Now the discussion is whether to outlaw recall elections. How the worm has turned.

Roadkill said...

So, if war is the continuation of politics by other means (von Clauswitz)...

Does Wisconsin's whimsical recall law mean endless war in Wisconsin?

Bill said...

How about making the people signing recall petitions collectively responsible for the state's costs for the recall election?

Steve Koch said...

"Why is one year's worth of behavior striking down the notion of recalls rarely being used in the future? Or to put it another way -- how accurate is a forecast going years out into the future that is based on the behavior of the past year? Answer: Not accurate at all."

Not a good analogy. The dems have discovered a new tactic that has been very effective. They will continue to use it until stopped. The GOP will be forced to use it or be at a serious competitive disadvantage.

Fen said...

"...the recall was appropriate because it would rarely be used. That argument is now forever moot."

MadisonMan: Why is one year's worth of behavior striking down the notion of recalls rarely being used in the future?

Because of what that one year's worth of behavior proved: the Left has abused a legal mechanism meant to prevent corruption, so that their Union Thugs can go back to laundering taxpayer dollars for Democrat warchests.

They are not recalling Walker because of Corruption. They are recalling Walker because of Policy. They don't like his policy.

That means we can too. A recall whenever we disagree with your policy. And we will. The domain names for "Recall Faulk" are already taken and ready. The Recall will be announced (assuming she wins) as soon as she is elected.

Its a win-win for us. We learned that from "progressives" too - after the way they ran Palin out of office in Alaska. Because the more time government spends in court and running for election, the less they can do, the less they can govern. I'm reminded of Frank Herbert's Bureau of Sabotage.

Alinsky baby! We should thank the Left for outing their playbook. It appears that many tactics we considered to be off-limits are not.

Good to know.

Alex said...

Steve Koch - the GOP are too lily-livered to use every dirty tactic in the book. One thing I have to hand it to the Democrats, they have balls the size of coconuts.

EDH said...

Roadkill said...
Does Wisconsin's whimsical recall law mean endless war in Wisconsin?

Ask Prof. Fallone.

Nineteen Eighty-Four (first published in 1949) by George Orwell is a dystopian novel about Oceania, a society ruled by the oligarchical dictatorship of the Party. Life in the Oceanian province of Airstrip One is a world of perpetual war, pervasive government surveillance, and incessant public mind control, accomplished with a political system euphemistically named English Socialism (Ingsoc), which is administered by a privileged Inner Party elite.

Alex said...

I think that Allie/garage would be just as overjoyed if the Republicans used the recall every single year. Let's face it, no matter how evolved we all claim to be - tribalism is our core.

Fen said...

And Tribalism is the Father of Racism. Is that why they call us Rednecks?

Steve Koch said...

It isn't that the dems are courageous, it is that they are not constrained by morals, ethics, or shame (indeed, without morals or ethics, how can you feel shame?). Dems feel that the ends justify the means. As Coach Alinsky said: "If you ain't cheating,you ain't trying".

MadisonMan said...

And we will

Doubt it.

Feel free to gin up the outrage!!!! however.

Michael K said...

"One thing I have to hand it to the Democrats, they have balls the size of coconuts."

And brains the size of peanuts. The recalls are driven by out-of-state unions.

leslyn said...

Steve Koch,

You are cowardly, immoral, unethical and have no shame. You feel you can lie about anyone because the end justifies the means. "If you ain't lying, you ain't tryin!"

See how that works? I don't know you at all. But I can caterwaul, slander and verbally eviscerate you because it suits my purpose.

This is called, "having a conversation." So do it again, Koch-man. Someone somewhere is loving this.

John Lynch said...

We have a real hard time making sure our descendents listen to us after we die.

walter said...

The recall election is just further illustration of the perverted power arrangement of public sector unionization as opposed to private sector history. It points to the fundamental distortion where public sector unions can vote in their own management. It's further complicated by the national union structure being dependent on the funds flowing from that perverted arrangement. There's very little connecting the realities of private sector unions and public sector unions other than extracted funds and a common dependence on Democrat politicians.
But that's enough to hold the employers (the taxpayers) hostage. It will just be a matter of how many taxpayers are directly or indirectly reliant on the pub sect gravy.

Original Mike said...

"Why is one year's worth of behavior striking down the notion of recalls rarely being used in the future? Or to put it another way -- how accurate is a forecast going years out into the future that is based on the behavior of the past year? Answer: Not accurate at all.

You might as well convince yourself that all Marches in the US will now be very warm because this past March was."


Awful analogy. One is the physical world and the other is human behavior. Human's learn and imitate. Nature doesn't.

leslyn said...

Fen said, among other hysterics:

"They are not recalling Walker because of Corruption. They are recalling Walker because of Policy. They don't like his policy."

Well, kinda yes and kinda no. Yeah, it all started about policy, but Walker fired it up with corruption. Remember the Koch bros phone call where Walker got pranked, talking about a deliberate intent to provoke unrest? And happy to go to "Cali" for his good work? Remember state troopers stalking Senator's homes in hopes of making an illegal arrest? Remember the open meeting that wasn't, so it became an illegal closed meeting? Remember "publishing" the bill, ignoring statutory requirements? Remember "no-bid" contracts? Remember not only the Milw DA's corruption investigation but the ongoing federal investigation as well?

Maybe things would have died down a little, but Walker, it seems, just can't help himself. It's like an addict: a little corruption is good, but a lot is better.

leslyn said...

John Lynch said,

"We have a real hard time making sure our descendents listen to us after we die." 4/15/12 9:53 P.M.

Well they could have put it however they wanted to in the Constitution. Don't try to baffle with bullshit. The Constitution's intent is plain, plain by the plain language.

Jason said...

Well, kinda yes and kinda no. Yeah, it all started about policy, but Walker fired it up with corruption. Remember the Koch bros phone call where Walker got pranked, talking about a deliberate intent to provoke unrest? And happy to go to "Cali" for his good work? Remember state troopers stalking Senator's homes in hopes of making an illegal arrest? Remember the open meeting that wasn't, so it became an illegal closed meeting? Remember "publishing" the bill, ignoring statutory requirements? Remember "no-bid" contracts? Remember not only the Milw DA's corruption investigation but the ongoing federal investigation as well?

Not one of the things you cite above involves "corruption".

I love how these mean-sounding words like "corruption" are just thrown around like nothing by the left.

walter said...

It's alleged "corruption" vs an inherently corrupted arrangement.

Fen said...

leslyn: Fen said, among other hysterics:

Wow you're really starting to lose it. You going to have a little meltdown on the forums?

"They are not recalling Walker because of Corruption. They are recalling Walker because of Policy. They don't like his policy."


Yeah, it all started about policy, but Walker fired it up with corruption. Remember the Koch bros phone call where Walker got pranked [snip a whole lot of other similar bullshit]

No, I don't remember it that way. Did you do alot of hallucinagenics when you were young? Shrooms maybe?

And really, the prank call? You are going to compare the like of that to the Unions stealing taxpayer money and laundering it back into Democrat coffers?


it all started about policy,

But thanks for admitting that. It all started about policy, and then later you guys hyperpobled and spun up incidents of "corruption" to justify your tantrum.

I guess that means you know the recall is bullshit, else you wouldn't be trying to make up reasons for yourself.

Try getting rid of the mirrors in your house instead. You're a Lefty. The odds that you'll ever be able to look yourself in the eye is remote anyway.

Curious George said...

leslyn said...
Fen said, among other hysterics:

Well, kinda yes and kinda no. Yeah, it all started about policy, but Walker fired it up with corruption. Remember the Koch bros phone call where Walker got pranked, talking about a deliberate intent to provoke unrest? And happy to go to "Cali" for his good work? Remember state troopers stalking Senator's homes in hopes of making an illegal arrest? Remember the open meeting that wasn't, so it became an illegal closed meeting? Remember "publishing" the bill, ignoring statutory requirements? Remember "no-bid" contracts? Remember not only the Milw DA's corruption investigation but the ongoing federal investigation as well?"

The bullshit here is so deep one needs waders. First the Koch call. The prankster brought that up, and Walker said the idea was rejected. That's what you call corruption?

State troopers stalking? Really? Stalking? Do you have any citation for this?

As for the rest you may have forgotten that Sumi's ruling on the open meeting issue was overturned. And the publishing of the bill became a moot point.

You call any of this corruption?

As far as the John Doe...what has Walker been charged with?

This is all just bullshit to move the argument from what this is really all about...a bunch of selfish public union workers and their thug leaders. All this would have happened anyway in absense of this "corruption".

I am deciding who is the bigger moron, you or Allie Oop. Right now you are tied.







Maybe things would have died down a little, but Walker, it seems, just can't help himself. It's like an addict: a little corruption is good, but a lot is better.

MadisonMan said...

Humans learn and imitate. Nature doesn't.

There are plenty of positive feedbacks in Nature. Drought, or glacial retreat, for example.

Justin said...

This piece is exactly the kind of baseless conjecture that Ann would slam if it did not align with her personal views. Let's all move on to another post. Nothing to see here.

Fen said...

Shorter Justin: Look! Squirrel!

Original Mike said...

Why would the Republicans not rain down recall-mania on the Democrats?

leslyn said...

Let's See. "Moron," "bullshit" " "bullshit" "bullshit" "tantrum" "meltdown."

So OK once we get past the hysterics once more, what are the claims?

Fen: the Unions stealing taxpayer money and laundering it back into Democrat coffers

You got a cite for that?

Curious: a bunch of selfish public union workers and their thug leaders.

You got a cite for that?

I detect some pride in your ranting. "Look how well I can despise ('a strong emotional response to something one looks down upon') you and everything I'm going to pretend you stand for."

I call bullshit.

Fen said...

Leslyn: Fen said, among other hysterics -

Wow you're really starting to lose it. You going to have a little meltdown on the forums?

They are not recalling Walker because of Corruption. They are recalling Walker because of Policy. They don't like his policy.


Leslyn: Yeah, it all started about policy, but Walker fired it up with corruption. Remember the Koch bros phone call where Walker got pranked [snip a whole lot of other similar bullshit]

No, I don't remember it that way. Did you do alot of hallucinagenics when you were young? Shrooms maybe?

And really, the prank call? You are going to compare the likes of that to the Unions stealing taxpayer money and laundering it back into Democrat coffers?


Lesylin: it all started about policy,

But thanks for admitting that. It all started about policy, and then later you guys hyperpobled and spun up incidents of "corruption" to justify your tantrum.

I guess that means you know the recall is bullshit, else you wouldn't be trying to make up reasons for yourself.

Try getting rid of the mirrors in your house instead. You're a Lefty. The odds that you'll ever be able to look yourself in the eye is remote anyway.

leslyn said...

Fen. Your "cite" is repeating what you said two and a half hours before? That's really pitiful.

Steve Koch said...

leslyn said:
"Steve Koch,

You are cowardly, immoral, unethical and have no shame. You feel you can lie about anyone because the end justifies the means. "If you ain't lying, you ain't tryin!"

See how that works? I don't know you at all. But I can caterwaul, slander and verbally eviscerate you because it suits my purpose.

This is called, "having a conversation." So do it again, Koch-man. Someone somewhere is loving this."

Truly a stupid comment, where to start? You say several things about me before you admit that you don't know anything about me and are slandering me, thus admitting that you don't know what you are talking about.

OTOH, I have closely observed the dems for several decades and understand how they operate quite well. As is the case for many people, I was a dem when I was young and ignorant but became a conservative as I learned more about how the world really operates.

So to summarize, you admitted that you did not know what you were talking about while my comments were knowledge based. If you can't raise the level of your game, you waste the time of everybody on this board as we have to skip over your comments and you make your fellow dems look even worse than usual.

3TAS said...

Remember state troopers stalking Senator's homes in hopes of making an illegal arrest?

The 14 Fleebaggers were in contempt if you recall. EVERYONE Of them should have lost their jobs on the spot! It is clear you approve of bad behavior, and believe me, the left has been full of it in this last year. Care to watch of video of your immature behavior?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-x3_zvGZY&feature=youtu.be

As said earlier, people like you should feel shame for actions like these, however, because of you lack of morals, you have none.