June 25, 2012

At the Bumble Bee Café...

Untitled

... share the buzz.

90 comments:

ricpic said...

Here come the purple coneflowers,
Which means that it's full summer;
They stay in bloom till summer sours,
Then they go...what a bummer.

Erika said...

I was reading the article on the Arizona case that popped up on Yahoo, and this paragraph jumped out at me:

In the opinion, Justice Kennedy wrote that the federal government's "power to determine immigration policy is well settled." But he also showed concern for what he described as Arizona's outsize burden in dealing with illegal immigration, seeming to sympathize with their decision to butt in on immigration enforcement. "Arizona bears many of the consequences of unlawful im­migration," he wrote. "Hundreds of thousands of deportable aliens are apprehended in Arizona each year." But, ultimately, the justices found that Arizona can not mete out their own state punishments for federal immigration crimes.

What? They're now using the phrase 'butt in' in professional journalism? That's the best wording she could come up with in discussing the nuances of federalism?

Oh journalism--you're so self-important, and yet your performance gets worse and worse all the time.

AllieOop said...

Seems early for purple coneflower in Wisconsin, but then again we started summer a month early. The BIG heat coming by Thursday, may get up to 100! Weird summer here.

Could it be.... you know.....

Saint Croix said...

Imagine if Roe v. Wade had nothing to do with abortion, reproduction, or human sexuality. Let’s suppose an alternate universe where Roe v. Wade has to do with the problem of illegal immigration.

Texas has outlawed the killing of illegal immigrants, defining it as manslaughter. Justice Blackmun and the Court make the argument that since killing an alien is not treated as murder by Texas, an alien must not be a person.

Blackmun writes...

The Constitution does not define “person” in so many words. Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment contains three references to “person.” The first, in defining “citizens,” speaks of “persons born or naturalized in the United States.” The word also appears both in the due process clause and in the equal protection clause. “Person” is used in other places in the Constitution: in the listing of qualifications for Representatives and Senators, Art. I, § 2, cl. 2, and § 3, cl. 3; in the Apportionment Clause, Art. I, § 2, cl. 3; [n53] in the Migration and Importation provision, Art. I, § 9, cl. 1; in the Emolument Clause, Art. I, § 9, cl. 8; in the Electors provisions, Art. II, § 1, cl. 2, and the superseded cl. 3; in the provision outlining qualifications for the office of President, Art. II, § 1, cl. 5; in the Extradition provisions, Art. IV, § 2, cl. 2, and the superseded Fugitive Slave Clause 3; and in the Fifth, Twelfth, and Twenty-second Amendments, as well as in §§ 2 and 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. But in nearly all these instances, the use of the word is such that it has application only to Americans. None indicates, with any assurance, that it has any possible application to illegal aliens.

The Court goes on to find an unenumerated Constitutional right for Americans to terminate illegal aliens.

In subsequent opinions, the Court makes clear that this right only exist among an elite group, known as abortionists. If you want to terminate an illegal alien, you have to pay a fee to an abortionist, and he will kill the alien for you, using knives or poison.

Almost immediately there is furious political opposition to this opinion. A group known as “pro-lifers,” say it is wrong to kill people. The Roman Catholic Church voices opposition to the killings. But the mainstream media does not cover the killing of illegal aliens. It is considered too upsetting to run photographs of dead Mexicans who are ripped to pieces by abortionists. The actual violence is covered up. While the media covers the fight over Roe v. Wade, it is rare to see covereage of the homicides. (See “Fast and Furious” scandal for another example of a media cover-up).

tim in vermont said...

"Could it be.... you know....."

Well, the warmest US temps happened in the '30s, and it wasn't global then... We were reminded what a small percentage of the globe the US occupies.

Oddly, globally, it hasn't been all that warm.

http://woodfortrees.org/plot/

Saint Croix said...

On top of this, there is a hysterical group of women who call themselves feminists. These feminists are obsessed with rape. They write articles and stage protests about how illegal aliens rape innocent women. They talk about rape all the time. Rape, rape, rape. Rape, rape, rape. “We must have a right to terminate illegal aliens because of all the rape that is going on.”

The Supreme Court doesn’t know what to do. They are under siege. It’s so partisan! Justice Scalia, who is considered an extreme right-winger, suggests that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. Other Justices don’t like that idea. In Casey the Court writes,

A decision to overrule Roe's essential holding under the existing circumstances would address error, if error there was, at the cost of both profound and unnecessary damage to the Court's legitimacy, and to the Nation's commitment to the rule of law.

Public opinion began to shift with the rise of the internet. Pro-lifers put up gruesome pictures of dead Mexicans killed on the border. People are appalled. The anger spreads. More people are upset and angry. Abortionists are shot by pro-lifers. One abortionist named Kermit is prosecuted for murder for killing an American citizen.

A major political party puts in its platform that Roe v. Wade must be overturned. Hundreds of thousands of protesters show up at the Supreme Court every January 22nd, the anniversary of the opinion.

Many Americans are sick of the dispute. They don’t want to hear about those dead illegal aliens. “We’re sick of hearing about those dead illegal aliens. Big deal. There are other things going on, you know. What about the economy? You’re a single-issue voter, that’s what you are.”

The pro-life party sends Roman Catholics to the Supreme Court, on a theory that Roman Catholics will believe in the sanctity of life. When the Catholics get on the Court, they say things like, “If Texas wants to kill illegal aliens, that’s up to Texas. Let the states decide. Federalism.” This is considered judicious and smart.

Pro-lifers draw analogies to slavery, and say this fight is heading in a very bad direction. Other people say, that’s crazy talk.

Calypso Facto said...

Could it be.... you know.....

...like 1895 - 1897? Or 1934 - 1936? Or 1988? Or 2000 - 2001?

Yes, it could be. Exactly like that: the high end of normal temperature variation.

Saint Croix said...

Okay, so that’s my analogy. You might say the analogy breaks down in a couple of places. For instance, you might say an illegal alien is obviously a person, and a young baby is obviously not one. You perhaps would be shocked to find out that the Supreme Court does not rely upon any biological distinctions like that. In Roe v. Wade--or any subsequent opinion--there is no discussion of the baby’s biological development. No discussion of her brain capacity, or her lungs, or her heart, or how big she is. There’s none of that. I am actually describing the thought process Justice Blackmun uses in his original opinion. He says babies aren’t in our Constitution, thus they aren’t protected by our Constitution.

You could argue that the unborn could qualify as subhuman. For instance a zygote is microscopic. I have trouble referring to a microscopic organism as a “baby.” But Blackmun isn’t actually doing that. He’s not thinking about the baby at all. He defines her as a legal non-person, as property. He writes this sentence: “We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins.” He is saying the baby’s actual life is legally irrelevant to his opinion.

Another important difference is that abortion is personal, and illegal aliens are not. Nobody says, “I’m about to have an illegal alien!” I actually think the personal argument is one of the weaker aspects of his opinion. Lots of crimes, after all, are done in private. Rape is often a private crime. The fourth amendment (which protects privacy) is designed to protect innocent people from a government searching for criminals. What is illogical is to say, “I am doing a crime in private so it’s none of your business.”

The Supreme Court has a history of protecting families. For instance, we have a right to marry, a right to have children, a right to raise and educate our children, etc. None of these rights are mentioned in the Constitution, but almost all Americans have no problem with them. Abortion is a very bad fit in this history. We don’t have a constitutional right to rape our wife or abuse our child. You don’t have a right to shake a crying baby and then say “It’s a private family matter.” No, the public has always had an interest in invading privacy to stop violent crimes.

Also, of course, the abortion industry is not private at all. An abortionist is a licensed doctor who sets up a clinic and has paying customers. The privacy doctrine is a horrible fit for this, since it’s attempting to describe an industry that advertises in the yellow pages. We have health regulations on business. Certainly we have health regulations on the practice of medicine! And yet some really ugly outrages have been done to women and girls because the courts have struck down health regulations on abortion clinics.

So while the illegal alien analogy is not a perfect fit, the analogy might be helpful as it tracks the fight from the pro-life point of view.

tim in vermont said...

The reason liberals seem to always get slapped down when trying to comment on global warming.

They are ill informed. Studies have been done:

"Among the least-informed respondents, Democrats and Republicans picked the wrong answer in roughly equal numbers. But among better-informed voters the story was different. Republicans who were in the fiftieth percentile gave the right answer more often than those [Democrats] in the ninety-fifth percentile.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/25/120625fa_fact_klein#ixzz1yQW65qAw"

In other words, Republicans are far better informed than Democrats about most issues, far far better informed.

This is especially funny considering how painfully stupid most of us Republicans are.

AllieOop said...

I am teasing, lighten up. I have no idea if greenhouse gases cause global warming or if it's cyclical. I won't live long enough to find out, but for the sake of my grandchildren, I hope it's cyclical.

The Farmer said...

Saint Croix, I know we can talk about anything in this thread but that doesn't mean we have to talk about everything.

The Farmer said...

Hi, Allie.

AllieOop said...

Hi Farmer! How are the crops?

tim in vermont said...

Look what letting public employee pensions and benefits grow unabated, but Walker is eeeeviillll!

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/06/24/biggest-urban-bankruptcy-in-us-history-coming-tuesday/

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

I have an idea for something to talk about. Maybe some liberal could explain to me how it is unconstitutional for the govt to interpose itself between a woman and her doctor on privacy grounds, but it is constitutional for the govt to highly regulate, as in take over, health care for the general population?

AllieOop said...

HAHA, my hyperlink lesson worked too well.

how to make a hyperlink

tim in vermont said...

I wonder what the support for single-payer would be if it weren't for the fact that these same pension issues will obviously cripple that program, as well.

Chip Ahoy said...

I have embarked upon an insane project.

One hummingbird visited once. Then again next day same time same single sad white petunia.

I learn more in five minutes on the internet than I do hours sitting in a classroom. Anything I can think about these house finches or hummingbirds that came to my balcony flower patch is answered on the internet. It is impressive.

[do finches use birdbaths?] scores of YouTube videos of finches at bird baths. A person could get lost over there.

[what do finches eat in the wild?] [where do finches sleep?] [where do finches go in a storm?] [how do finches survive hurricanes?]

[blown glass hummingbird feeder] [whimsical hummingbird feeder] [silly hummingbird feeder] [ridiculous humming bird feeder] [hummingbird feed tube] [[hummingbird feed tube +bee] [hummingbird feeder ants] [homemade hummingbird liquid] [garden posts] [garden flag posts]

I ordered eight + another one small glass hummingbird feeders. One of the eight is really a set of four little fruit that are suspended separately, so twelve. I think. I could be wrong. Not Amazon. I have not yet plumbed the depths of Amazon.

I've looked but not plumbed. I had to go back way back waaaaay waaaaay back, like page 14 to get to them, but the silly glass feeders are there. Bad reviews all. I read them and thought, "You're not trying hard enough." So I'll see for myself what is to complain about. The ones I bought are not quite silly enough so I will have to bejewel them further. Jeweler's wire spun around like rings of venus, shiny beads like moons, extra loops, wasting wire ridiculously with concentric loops making tiny rests for hummingbird to sit. I'll see. I don't really know. But this is a start. I expect to expand much more ridiculously than this. I intend to turn the whole terrace into one gigantic crystalline Christmas tree. Up and down twice a year.

My start were these, on page 4 of 8 pages of hummingbird feeders, pretty much all of them. My decision was cost. I saw similar elsewhere for more so I chose this place first, least expensive first as a trial. Then after July I might start to get serious about being thoroughly ridiculous.

They are insufficiently silly. I will have to fix that.

My assumption might be all wrong. Maybe hummingbirds are repulsed by sparkling things. I might end up organicifying everything, the exact opposite of shiny, and making stuff look like berries and branches, I do not know.

People are much bigger crackpots about birds than I am and that comforts me. One man fashioned a pair of goggles with a hummingbird feeder at the nose, see ridiculous hummingbird feeder, taking this idea of bringing hummingbird directly to your eyeballs to one extreme. The extremes are already reached and I an nowhere near them.

bagoh20 said...

Went to see "Prometheus" over the weekend - Imax - 3D.

Incredibly cool to see, but an incredibly bad script. I'm not a writer, and I'm not even smart, but I know I could do better. I love my Sci-Fi, but this was just lazy, sci-fi writing. I would rather just see the visuals, with some good music in the background.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Could it be.... you know....

Summer?

We are unseasonably cool here. Had to protect my young plants from frost the other day.

Could it be.....?

Ice age!!!OMG chop some firewood.

:-)

t-man said...

Althouse has several posts mentioning that hummingbirds are actually very nasty creatures.

AllieOop said...

That's too bad about Promethius Bag O, I loved the first Alien, scared the panties offa me.

Pogo said...

Hummingbird by Seals and Crofts.

edutcher said...

I know...

the science is settled, it's the people that promote it that are unbalanced.

AllieOop said...

Chip, I just plant lots of red flowers, the hummingbirds come during the twilight hours.

The Farmer said...

AllieOop said...
Hi Farmer! How are the crops?


Oh, I'm not really a farmer, that's just what people started calling me after I moved to Wisconsin from the big city. Like when people call a big fat guy "Tiny" or a guy missing a hand "Lefty."

Chip Ahoy said...

They tore up the place and pooped all over but I am glad that I bothered because it turned out to be the last chance I would have. Behind a screen door, behind vertical blinds, the photos show twin finches tearing up the terrace. It is a nest away from nest, a food source, a meeting up place. They are waiting for Daddy, who showed up bright and red, but so did the wind which rattled and swayed the blinds making focusing on birds impossible so no pics of Dad, but the kids were excited to see him, they chirped with glee and excitement to see him, flapped about, then they all flew off and that is the end of that.

AllieOop said...

Chip, you're a finch peeper.

Farmer, really? Aw shucks I so pictured you out in the fields in a bib overall, shirtless baling hay, sweaty....JK.

bagoh20 said...

Still worth seeing, but I just don't understand why with all the resources they have in making a movie like that, that they would settle for some really stupid dialog, acting, silly science, etc.

Just an example: a surgery is performed by an advanced robotic thingy, and at the end of it, how do they close the incision? With big nasty staples. In the year 2090?

A number of things like that, and the attempts at romance and character building were just lame phone-it-in embarrassments.

I like just looking at that kind of big film sci-fi stuff, so I still enjoyed it, but the script could have just been left out.

tim in vermont said...

"A number of things like that, and the attempts at romance and character building were just lame phone-it-in embarrassments"

Your comments could just as easily apply to the Sherlock Holmes movie "Game of Shadows"

It is like a series of deleted scenes (probably deleted for being over the top) from the other movie strung together with a not quite plausible approximation of a plot.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllieOop said...

Silicone Plaster

Maybe they should've used this, BagO.

MayBee said...

AllieOop- is there a secret message being conveyed by your ever-changing profile pic?

AllieOop said...

Yes Maybee there is.

t-man said...

Chip -

Was it the music or the sound of gunfire at the music festival that drove off the birds?

Patrick said...

But it's a secret.

Sorun said...

I haven't seen Prometheus, but this "pre-prequel" has prepared me to be irritated with the writing.

So now that my expectations are reduced, I might like it. And the theater apparently sells White Castle. Mmm.

ricpic said...

Many Americans...don't want to hear about those dead illegal aliens.

I have no sympathy for dead illegal aliens. This is an issue on which I'm not willing to make the effort to fake compassion. Of course I'm a literalist so dead illegal aliens means dead illegal aliens to me not whatever the hell they may or may not be symbols of in Saint Croix's omnibus post(s).

Chip Ahoy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chip Ahoy said...

Allie, what happened to your face? It's gone a little bit splotchy.

Chip Ahoy said...

Apologies, wrong link up there, had to remove it. So, again:

Within one minute, before I got out of the building I was accosted. The human twin wrote today to say thank you for the pics.

The next minute I was accosted again and I already showed the two sunglasses bug eye girl pictures.

It was a chance encounter. The three stopped me in the hallway. Yellow walls, poor yellow light, a lens chosen for another purpose, they did not now what they were asking but I obliged them anyway. I said I wouldn't use these but the controlling girl is well chuffed this morning with these photos that I took of them and now I have permission to show.

Sometimes when saving, my copy of Photoshop displays two open layers instead of just the top layer and the image it presents is the same as a double exposure. I never saved an image that way, always closed the lower layer first, but this one time I kept it because the chaos and movement it showed was appropriate. She liked it too. The girl being lifted on the right. [turns out her card says she's a project manager for a petroleum firm. go figure.]

ricpic said...

I didn't see Prometheus specifically because of a review that mentioned a gruesomely graphic operation scene. Who needs movie induced nightmares?

AllieOop said...

An alien ate it, Chip.

MadisonMan said...

Could it be.... you know.....

Satan?

MadisonMan said...

Is Bankrupt Stockton bigger than Birmingham, AL? I thought BHam already went bankrupt (problems with sewage plant, or something like that. Or was that Harrisburg?)

Patrick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Croix said...

Allie, you're turning to the right!

Saint Croix said...

And Game of Shadows is frickin' awesome. Both the Sherlock Holmes movies are awesome.

AllieOop said...

You guessed the secret St. Croix.

Lem said...

Don't like the Supreme Court's decision? Order an Arizona boycott!

Synova said...

"I didn't see Prometheus specifically because of a review that mentioned a gruesomely graphic operation scene. Who needs movie induced nightmares?"

I didn't find it all that gruesome. Icky, sure. Gruesome, no. Graphic, yes. Nightmare inducing, no.

I think that some people were truly disturbed by the scene, I sort of expected by husband to be be disturbed by the scene because he'd watched my cesarean. But he said no.

But then he didn't freak out to the real thing, why would pretend movie stuff be worse?

LarsPorsena said...

@Bag:

Dead on with your review of "Prometheus". It is totally without logic or structure. Huge disappointment. Best movie of the year, so far, is "Bernie".

David said...

The biggest sign of radical change in American politics is the federal debt and the lack of seriousness on the part of our president in dealing with the issue.

Synova said...

"I am teasing, lighten up. I have no idea if greenhouse gases cause global warming or if it's cyclical. I won't live long enough to find out, but for the sake of my grandchildren, I hope it's cyclical."

Of course it's cyclical.

Allie, the geological greenhouse/icehouse cycle is approximately 300 million years, give or take. Dinosaurs disappeared at the end of the Cretacious only 65 million years ago.

I say this to put it into perspective.

We are presently in an ice house cycle. The series of ice ages in our pre-history, the ones that tore up the landscapes of Wisconsin and Minnesota, are all part of this same long-term modern ice house cycle.

In most of geological history the earth has not had any polar ice whatsoever. Geologists disagree but some think that the earth may have frozen, pole to pole, at least once and possibly twice. Pangaea, by various names, has formed and reformed probably five times or more. Ice houses and green houses are actually, at least this is the current understanding, ultimately caused by tectonic plate movement.

Now, suppose we get warmer, a whole lot warmer, because of human activity. Take it as gospel truth.

It will be hundreds of MILLIONS of years before human warming is added to the natural warmth of the Earth in its green house phase. Humans evolved from tiny mammals in less than 65 million years. If we exist in another couple hundred million years we'll either be something *else*, or we'll be smart enough to manage how much solar energy the earth absorbs or perhaps even plate movement.

In the mean time, for all we know, your grandchildren are being saved from being wiped out by an ice age.

Lem said...

Obama's directive to home land security not to take Arizona's call over illegals could come back to furiously haunt him.. very fast.

Lets say an Arizona trooper stops a potential DUI and discovers that he is here illegally. Calls Homeland and the call is rebuffed.. the illegal alien is released and follows up with an attempt to rob a convenience store, mortally wounding the Indian clerk - yes - a friend of Joe Biden.

The Indian-American community rises up and demands answers following Ravi's death.

Synova said...

"I haven't seen Prometheus, but this "pre-prequel" has prepared me to be irritated with the writing.

So now that my expectations are reduced, I might like it. And the theater apparently sells White Castle. Mmm.
"

Expectations make a big difference. Watch it and have fun. Just don't start trying to track the symbolism like I did and waste the movie trying to figure out who was "Prometheus" and what was "fire."

MadisonMan said...

We are unseasonably cool here.

Cooler than normal doesn't mean much from a climate perspective. How many record cool events have occurred in the past 10-20 years, vs. the number of record warm events? Certainly in the past 10 years Wisconsin has had a lot more warm events than cold (Wisconsin is not the globe)

Ice houses and green houses are actually, at least this is the current understanding, ultimately caused by tectonic plate movement.

I think this is imprecisely worded. Where the continents sit with respect to the Poles has a huge influence on whether glaciers form. Yes, that is due to tectonic plate movement, but more practically where that movement has put the continents.

tim in vermont said...

"Of course it's cyclical"

Hmm, maybe I will switch sides in this debate, again. There are very few "of courses" in climate science.

Synova said...

No, even when the most continental area was situated at the poles, there was still not ice on them.

My statement was imprecise, however.

The ultimate cause of the change from green house to ice house and back again is the expansion of mid ocean ridges. If they expand quickly (geologically speaking) it results in more volcanic activity at the ridges and "younger", thicker oceanic crust over greater areas. Thus the ocean levels rise significantly over the continental margins. This means more ocean surface, less weathering of continental crust, higher insolation, blah blah blah. Warmer.

The mid ocean ridges stop expanding or slow significantly or continents get hung up on each other and continental rifts happen, etc., the ocean crust becomes more dense, thinner, the ocean levels go down, more continental weathering happens, less volcanism, etc., Cooler.

In each case a number of processes reinforce either the warming or the cooling.

But ultimately it's controlled (or reversed) by tectonic movement.

(Not promising I haven't munged some of that up, and my professor would be utterly appalled at the use I've put it to.)

Synova said...

"Hmm, maybe I will switch sides in this debate, again. There are very few "of courses" in climate science."

Climate science, near as I can tell, never looks at a truly geological time scale. There are any number of different influences that control constant wobbles in climate.

Shall I commit anecdote?

As part of my class last semester, taught by a woman who's interest is precambrian sedimentary rock, we had a "lab" that was about climate change. We had to read an article or two by a respected scientist claiming that human caused climate change began 8000 years ago with rice farming in China, and not by any means, with the industrial revolution. It was interesting and plausible.

Not so plausible was the claim that the reduction of agriculture in the land area of *Europe* due to medieval plague showed global reductions in warming for decade long periods of time.

Dear dog. Our TA encouraged us to discuss rather than simply agree with this extraordinary claim.

The next day in our lecture our Prof had a COW. She was so very worried that it was possible that we'd gotten the wrong idea, and it was so very very vital that we all understood that there was no doubt whatsoever that there was not any possible fault in the climate science of global climate change.

I found it appalling. I found it appalling that she could utter something like, "Ha ha, some people say that it won't matter for millions of years, but tell that to someone who's house is under water!" She *knows*. She knows how warm is "normal" for the Earth. She knows the *scale* of cyclical climate change... not sunspots!.. and she asks us, in class, to define "climate" as separate from "weather" in time periods shorter than a complete el nino, la nina cycle.

I've got NO sympathy.

tim in vermont said...

I sympathize with you regarding your professor. I am familiar with both of those studies and agree that the first one is modestly plausible, and the second, far less so, neither is exactly Holy Writ. It is also distressing to hear of somebody who is supposed to be transmitting the scientific method and enlightenment values to the next generation subverting those with politics, but, to take the bait:

The reason that weathering affects temperature, in theory, anyway, is because the weathering removes CO2 from the atmosphere. This is not inconsistent with the alarmist's case.

Ultimately, geologic time-scales don't matter to humans and humans don't matter to the earth on geologic time scales.

Synova said...

"Ultimately, geologic time-scales don't matter to humans and humans don't matter to the earth on geologic time scales."

Our concerns are far more immediate, very true.

But if we went by our concerns, warmer might well be better. Houses can be moved to higher ground, agriculture can move Northward, we can have farms on Greenland and grapes in Vinland.

Rising ocean levels are presented as catastrophic and most humans do live along coasts. But humans have feet. The catastrophes described are catastrophes on a human scale and subject to human scale solutions.

Or at least they are if we refuse to let the catastophists cripple science and industry.

tim in vermont said...

See, this is why it is no fun arguing with skeptics. I have to agree with you. We will adapt either way, and will no doubt be forced to adapt by other forces or we will die out.

In a way, the argument of the alarmists is beside the point.

Synova said...

"The reason that weathering affects temperature, in theory, anyway, is because the weathering removes CO2 from the atmosphere. This is not inconsistent with the alarmist's case."

Yeah. I had written less weathering, more CO2, and then I couldn't remember if that was right or backward.

But the idea was that either direction things went, all the cascade of other processes related to it built on, rather than balanced out, the warming or cooling trend.

But if we're in a cold time, human activity is bucking the trend, not building on it.

And the scale of the cycle involved is likely a couple hundred million years or more. We can buck the trend for a long time before we break the world.

And it could be that we should be sending thank-you notes to the Chinese who invented rice farming 8000 years ago.

We don't KNOW.

Synova said...

"See, this is why it is no fun arguing with skeptics."

;)

Sorry.

MadisonMan said...

And the scale of the cycle involved is likely a couple hundred million years or more. We can buck the trend for a long time before we break the world.

That is a far longer cycle than the Milankovitchian orbital pulses that have (in theory) caused the regular ice ages in the past, oh, 800K years. So I would expect geologic-scale forcing to modulate Milankovitch forcing only very very slowly.

I also think more weathering means less CO2 in the air. But geologic time scales don't really interest me that much. Climate scales only do because people expect me to know something about it (sigh). I would expect weathering to decrease as the Earth's core cools -- but I have no idea on the time scale of *that*!

MadisonMan said...

On a completely different topic, the new color looks nice, Professor. Nice weather today for painting. I hope your painter doesn't have to labor later this week when it's super hot.

bagoh20 said...

I'm interested in the professor in Synova's anecdote. Obviously, she must be intelligent, and has been educated in science for many years, and certainly understands the time scales involved as well as the variability of the climate long before man existed, yet she seems very willing to abandon all that for this alluring "science" of AGW.

I imagine that she might have a environmental warrior type bias that she has internalized since she was young - many of us have that - but I also bet that most of her learning materials and professors included a strong AGW bias starting long before there was even enough misinformation to justify it.

You can't help but notice that most presented information in the sciences including everything from TV like "Discovery" and the History Channel to college curricula not only supports AGW, but plays it as undisputed, leading to a presentation that assumes a mandate to fight it as if it's like civil rights, or abolition, where the alternative is some despicable immoral stance.

Rarely is any dispute mentioned seriously, leaving those arguments hidden away like some crazy aunt sequestered in the attic.

I think we likely have a whole generation of elites with special privileges and powers who have never considered the alternative possibility. These people will be influencing a lot of people for a long time.

We need to keep asking questions and forcing them to be addressed until the truth has a shot, whatever it is.

Synova said...

Anyone following the Kimberlin stuff, Aaron Walker got a favorable ruling today and SWAT'ed tonight.

It's so unbelievable, Kimberlin (presumably) seems to think that no one will believe it.

Amazing.

Synova said...

Aaron Worthing. Bah.

Michael K said...

"we can have farms on Greenland and grapes in Vinland."

You mean like they did in 1300? That's the end of the Medieval Warm Period that Michael Mann denies ever existed. The Little Ice Age followed when skaters could cross the Thames on the ice.

The AGW hysterics deny history. Easy because they don't know any.

bagoh20 said...

Kimberlin, apparently, is completely insane and dangerously so. He will be going back to jail soon. His high profile supporters need to be perp walked themselves.

rhhardin said...

House finches used to get conjunctivitis - crud crusts their eyes and they can't see and so starve. Maybe they're all immune now, but there was a huge epidemic of it a decade or so ago.

You could capture one on the lawn with only one eye working, by approaching on the blind side.

Put them in a cage with food and water, with tetracycline in the water (pet store bought).

The conjunctivitis clears up very fast, but you have to keep them caged on and on the tetracycline for two weeks or it will come back stronger.

They don't like being in the cage, even though the cage is outdoors hanging from a scenic tree.

Synova said...

It's remotely possible that he is not *personally* calling the cops to tell them that one or another of his enemies have shot his wife.

JohnnyT1948 said...

We could have some very interesting developments in the recount of the Wanggaard-Lehman WI State Senate race that could change control of the chamber.

"Thousands of voters who registered at the polls on recall election day in the City of Racine may not have signed the supplemental poll list as required by law, the MacIver News Service has learned...
During a review of same day registrations for just one ward in the City of Racine conducted at the ongoing Senate District 21 recount at the Racine County Courthouse, more than 100 voters failed to sign the supplemental poll list.
More than 4,000 people were added to the supplemental poll lists in the City of Racine on the day of the June 5th recall election.
Sources tell MacIver News that upwards of half of those voters failed to sign the poll list."

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012...qoaEQk.twitter

"It's not known how many signatures are missing, but Racine County Clerk Wendy Christensen said there are entire pages of missing signatures in wards throughout the city."

http://mountpleasant.patch.com/artic...ity-poll-books

In a comment on the blog, Real Debate Wisconsin, Steve Egg, who provided some of the best coverage of the Prosser-Kloppenberg recount, states the following:
"This one's going to court. The $35 million question is whether the courts will accept the hyper-partisan GAB's claim that as a "clerical error" those 2000 votes should count or order a drawdown of 2000 ballots from the city of Racine, which would likely give Wanggaard the decision?

As for why I said "hyper-partisan GAB", they backed up the Sauk County Board of Canvassers' decision to disenfranchise the 18 nuns who forgot witness signatures on their hand-delivered-and-picked-up-by-the-town-clerk absentee ballots in last year's Supreme Court race. Did I mention that the 18-vote drawdown netted Kloppenburg 10 votes in the margin?"

tim in vermont said...

Abolish the Secret Ballot from The Atlantic.

"What actually works is mimicking some part of the 19th century’s surveillance culture. The most effective tool for turning nonvoters into voters—10 times better than the typical piece of preelection mail, according to a 2006 Michigan experiment—is a threat to send neighbors evidence of one’s apathy. Other experiments have found gentler approaches that serve a similar function: merely reminding citizens that whether they cast a ballot is a matter of public record, or promising to print the names of those who do in a postelection newspaper ad, can boost turnout too. By introducing shame into the calculus of citizenship, the researchers behind these tests increased the psychological cost of not voting. In so doing, they restored the sense—sadly lost for a century—that voting ought to be not a personal act but a social one."

AllieOop said...

This is what caused such outrage in Wisconsin in the recall election. Is the Atlantic advocating this? Not considered creepy anymore?

AllieOop said...

Remember the postcards from the Greater Wisconsin Political Fund?

Saint Croix said...

The government wants more people on food stamps.

And before you say that's crazy right-wing talk, the article is from CNN.

We're spending tax dollars on media buys so that our citizens can learn about all the free stuff they can get that is paid for by tax dollars.

"Would you like to be a welfare queen? Sign up now!"

Just think, if liberals got their way, not only would abortions be funded by the state, but the state would then buy media time to tell citizens about all the free abortions they can have.

I'm holding out for free hookers and booze.

Saint Croix said...

"Did you know you qualify for an abortion? Sign up now!"

AllieOop said...

St. Croix, the video in that article from CNN is interesting, the couple accepted food stamps for the family, yet the husband wants different leadership and will vote for Romney. Does he not realize that Romney wants to shrink government? Isn't shrinking government a good idea? The man appears to be a conservative.

Patrick said...

Allie - I don't know if it would be "many" or "most" people on food stamps, but I would think a significant chunk (how is that for vagueness?) want to be off of food stamps and have a better life. Perhaps that guy views Romney as giving him a better shot at it than the President.

Saint Croix said...

St. Croix, the video in that article from CNN is interesting

I actually missed it, thanks for pointing that out.

He was making $100,000 a year. I don't know where the money went, but he's broke now. Losing the house and his son can't afford to go to college. That's a horrible story of downward mobility.

Does he not realize that Romney wants to shrink government? Isn't shrinking government a good idea?

Yes and yes.

The man appears to be a conservative.

Romney's a moderate. Obama's a socialist.

You want food, you got to work. You want a house, you got to work. I'm sure this guy misses his $100,000 a year job. Asking him if he was better off 4 years ago is almost obscene.

bagoh20 said...
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bagoh20 said...
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Saint Croix said...

I am testing profile pictures.

Saint Croix said...

Don't let my eyeball scare you!

Saint Croix said...

I think I like art more than eyeball.

Saint Croix said...

I said I like art better than eyeball!