June 28, 2012

Chief Justice Roberts writes an opinion limiting the commerce power and the spending power.

This is an important opinion about federalism and the scope of Congress's enumerated powers. Even as the individual mandate was upheld under taxing power — and Roberts wrote about the expansiveness of that power — we have an opinion that is limiting those other 2 powers. I want to begin to talk about the Chief Justice's contribution to constitutional law as he writes about these 2 powers.

Let's not be distracted by the breadth of the taxing power. The American people exert tremendous political power against taxing. Look at the Tea Party. A political price will be paid — both for the tax and the deceit about imposing a tax.

What I want to do first, now that I have my hands on the opinion, is analyze the Commerce Clause doctrine.

ADDED: The Commerce Clause discussion is in Section III-A of the Chief Justice's opinion:
The guaranteed-issue and community-rating reforms do not... address the issue of healthy individuals who choose not to purchase insurance to cover potential health care needs. In fact, the reforms sharply exacerbate that problem, by providing an incentive for individuals to delay purchasing health insurance until they become sick, relying on the promise of guaranteed and affordable coverage. The reforms also threaten to impose massive new costs on insurers, who are required to accept unhealthy individuals but prohibited from charging them rates necessary to pay for their coverage. This will lead insurers to significantly increase premiums on everyone. See Brief for America’s Health Insurance Plans et al. as Amici Curiae in No. 11–393 etc. 8–9.

The individual mandate was Congress’s solution to these problems. By requiring that individuals purchase health insurance, the mandate prevents cost-shifting by those who would otherwise go without it. In addition, the mandate forces into the insurance risk pool more healthy individuals, whose premiums on average will be higher than their health care expenses. This allows insurers to subsidize the costs of covering the unhealthy individuals the reforms require them to accept....
But in fact, as we shall see in the taxing power discussion, these healthy individuals won't have to buy insurance, because they can simply opt to pay the penalty, which they rationally will do because it costs less. And this money goes to the government — it's tax revenue — and not to the insurance companies, who now have those massive new costs.
The Government contends that the individual mandate is within Congress’s power because the failure to purchase insurance “has a substantial and deleterious effect on interstate commerce” by creating the cost-shifting problem. Brief for United States 34. The path of our Commerce Clause decisions has not always run smooth, see United States v. Lopez, 514 U. S. 549–559 (1995), but it is now well established that Congress has broad authority under the Clause...
Roberts deals with the existing doctrine, which is, he says, "expansive." But this is different, because never before has Congress tried to use it it "to compel individuals not engaged in commerce to purchase an unwanted product."
The language of the Constitution reflects the natural understanding that the power to regulate assumes there is already something to be regulated...
And all the cases finding commerce power refer to some activity that is regulated. This is taking those who are inactive and forcing them to become active.
Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Every day individuals do not do an infinite number of things. In some cases they decide not to do something; in others they simply fail to do it. Allowing Congress to justify federal regulation by pointing to the effect of inaction on commerce would bring countless decisions an individual could potentially make within the scope of federal regulation, and—under the Government’s theory—empower Congress to make those decisions for him.
It's beyond Wickard v. Filburn because "[t]he farmer in Wickard was at least actively engaged in the production of wheat." Roberts brings up the famous "broccoli" hypothetical: The government might try to force to "buy vegetables." (Later he specifies "broccoli," so broccoli lives on as the hypothetical vegetable in constitutional law.)
Congress already enjoys vast power to regulate much of what we do. Accepting the Government’s theory would give Congress the same license to regulate what we do not do, fundamentally changing the relation between the citizen and the Federal Government.

To an economist, perhaps, there is no difference between activity and inactivity; both have measurable economic effects on commerce. But the distinction between doing something and doing nothing would not have been lost on the Framers, who were “practical statesmen,” not metaphysical philosophers....
That strikes me as odd, because it seems that the economists' idea is what is practical, while the action/inaction distinction seems more philosophical.

Next, there's the idea — pushed by the government — that everyone is already somehow “active in the market for health care” even when the use of health care services lies in the future. Eventually, they are going to participate in this market, and what Congress did was regulate their payment for these services they are consuming now or in the future. Roberts sticks to what people are doing currently, as he makes his action/inaction distinction matter. And this is a practical, economic matter, because the point of the mandate is to drag these healthy people into the pool so insurance companies can get premiums from people who don't take out more than they put in. These people are targeted precisely because they are inactive:
It is precisely because these individuals, as an actuarial class, incur relatively low health care costs that the mandate helps counter the effect of forcing insurance companies to cover others who impose greater costs than their premiums are allowed to reflect.... If the individual mandate is targeted at a class, it is a class whose commercial inactivity rather than activity is its defining feature.
Note that as Roberts explains why these people can't be regulated, he's also explaining why the health insurance companies are doomed. (But, you may think, isn't the mandate upheld under the taxing power? Again, what's upheld is the tax imposed for not buying insurance, and that's less expensive than buying insurance, and the money goes to the federal government, not to the insurance companies. Meanwhile — to make it crushingly clear — the insurance companies do have to sell insurance to people with pre-existing conditions. So these people who currently don't buy insurance because it's not worth it can start buying insurance as soon as it is worth it, and under the ACA, they can't be charged more than the people who have been buying insurance all along.)

MORE: To get the other 4 votes for the Commerce Clause position, we need to switch to the joint dissent, written by Justices Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito. Scalia-Kennedy-Thomas-Alito track Roberts' activity/inactivity distinction, saying:
The striking case of Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U. S. 111 (1942), which held that the economic activity of growing wheat, even for one’s own consumption, affected commerce sufficiently that it could be regulated, always has been regarded as the ne plus ultra of expansive Commerce Clause jurisprudence. To go beyond that, and to say the failure to grow wheat (which is not an economic activity, or any activity at all) nonetheless affects commerce and therefore can be federally regulated, is to make mere breathing in and out the basis for federal prescription and to extend federal power to virtually all human activity....

The case upon which the Government principally relies to sustain the Individual Mandate under the Necessary and Proper Clause is Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U. S. 1 (2005) .
Remember that Scalia surprised us by concurring in Raich — based on the Necessary and Proper Clause.
That case held that Congress could, in an effort to restrain the interstate market in marijuana, ban the local cultivation and possession of that drug. Id., at 15–22. Raich is no precedent for what Congress has done here. That case’s prohibition of growing (cf. Wickard, 317 U. S. 111), and of possession (cf. innumerable federal statutes) did not represent the expansion of the federal power to direct into a broad new field. The mandating of economic activity does, and since it is a field so limitless that it converts the Commerce Clause into a general authority to direct the economy, that mandating is not “consist[ent] with the letter and spirit of the constitution.” McCulloch v. Maryland, 4 Wheat. 316, 421 (1819).

Moreover, Raich is far different from the Individual Mandate in another respect. The Court’s opinion in Raich pointed out that the growing and possession prohibitions were the only practicable way of enabling the prohibition of interstate traffic in marijuana to be effectively enforced. 545 U. S., at 22....
With the present statute, by contrast, there are many ways other than this unprecedented Individual Mandate by which the regulatory scheme’s goals of reducing insurance premiums and ensuring the profitability of insurers could be achieved. For instance, those who did not purchase insurance could be subjected to a surcharge when they do enter the health insurance system. Or they could be denied a full income tax credit given to those who do purchase the insurance....
AND: Let's go back to the Chief Justice's opinion and to his discussion of the Necessary and Proper Clause. Once Congress decides to get into the immense project of dealing with health care and health insurance — an end that easily fits within the commerce power — why don't we accord it great latitude in determining which means to use to achieve that end? We've seen that Scalia-Kennedy-Thomas-Alito said there are other means, but the case law — notably McCulloch v. Maryland — says that Congress has its choice of means. In McCulloch, Chief Justice Marshall said that the Constitution "does not profess to enumerate the means by which the powers it confers may be executed," so "the ordinary means of execution" are implied. The chosen means doesn't have to be "absolutely necessary," and "narrow construction" would make the assigned work of government "impracticab[le]," which can't be what was intended. Marshall approves of means that are "appropriate" and "plainly adapted" to the enumerated ends, if they are — and here's the mystery phrase that Scalia-Kennedy-Thomas-Alito  quoted — "consist[ent] with the letter and spirit of the constitution."

Chief Justice Roberts says that the Court has been "very deferential to Congress’s determination that a regulation is 'necessary'" — but it still looks for consistency with — that phrase again — "the letter and spirit of the constitution." And Roberts essentially repeats his Commerce Clause argument here: It would allow Congress to regulate inactivity.
Even if the individual mandate is “necessary” to the Act’s insurance reforms, such an expansion of federal power is not a “proper” means for making those reforms effective.
What about Raich, then? Why was it "necessary" and "proper" to reach home-grown, home-consumed marijuana used by medical patients? Roberts says that "marijuana is a fungible commodity" and so there was potential for diversion into interstate market that could "substantially undercut" Congress's big scheme of banning marijuana (which clearly is a matter of regulating commerce). But regulating the health insurance industry is clearly a matter of regulating commerce, and the people who don't by health insurance are substantially undercutting the success of that big scheme. Here's where I thought the Court would have the most trouble, and I'm not seeing much elaboration of why this is different from Raich.

ALSO: Here's Justice Ginsburg, in dissent, talking about the Necessary and Proper Clause:
Without the individual mandate, Congress learned, guaranteed-issue and community-rating requirements would trigger an adverse-selection death-spiral in the health-insurance market: Insurance premiums would skyrocket, the number of uninsured would increase, and insurance companies would exit the market. 
Yes, as we saw above, the Chief Justice clearly recognized this problem. It's an economic disaster without the individual mandate. Why doesn't that make it necessary? I can see 2 answers: 1. It is necessary. It's just not proper. And 2: Since the ACA lets the uninsured avoid purchasing insurance if they pay a tax/penalty to the federal government, and since that's what healthy people will rationally do, the scheme was never set up to work. If it doesn't even work, it doesn't make sense to call it necessary.

But Ginsburg says the individual mandate is what makes it work, so — using Raich quotes — it's an “essential par[t] of a larger regulation of economic activity” without which “the regulatory scheme [w]ould be undercut.” This makes sense if you think it's not the proper place of the courts to look at a legislative solution and make a judgment about how well it's going to work, and, I note, neither Roberts nor Scalia-Kennedy-Thomas-Alito  relied on an independent judicial assessment of whether the individual mandate —with its big loophole (paying the tax) — would actually work to solve the problem it's supposed to resolve.

What Roberts and Scalia-Kennedy-Thomas-Alito did pay attention to was the "spirit of the constitution" and what is "proper." Ginsburg say that Roberts fails "to explain why the individual mandate threatens our constitutional order." He cites cases and claims this situation is different, but what is the doctrine?
How is a judge to decide, when ruling on the constitutionality of a federal statute, whether Congress employed an “independent power,” ante, at 28, or merely a “derivative” one, ante, at 29. Whether the power used is “substantive,” ante, at 30, or just “incidental,” ante, at 29? The instruction The Chief Justice, in effect, provides lower courts: You will know it when you see it.
You will know it when you see it — i.e. "I know it when I see it." Did you know "I know it when I see it" has its own Wikipedia article? You haven't given us a rule to apply, and so judges — in an inappropriately nonjudicial way — will be deciding things ad hoc.

AND: I'm going to start a new post to discuss the spending power.

ADDED: I've corrected the text to reflect that Justices Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito are writing the dissenting opinion jointly.

311 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 311 of 311
Carnifex said...

@God

you can't be naive enough to think TOR hasn't been penetrated and subborned? I'd not use ANY electronic communications for subversive stuff. It's ALL penetrated. Backdoors written in or your company/server/whatever ain't allowed to operate. Nothing so crass as threats on paper, just words to the wise by certain ABC agencies.

dreams said...

"Whether ObamaCare was affirmed or overturned by the ladies and men in robes, nothing was going to change one unimpeachable fact: From day one, the Obama health-care legislation was swimming against the tides of history. It was a legislative monolith out of sync with an iPad world. In the era of the smartphone, ObamaCare was rotary-dial health reform." Daniel Henninger of the WSJ

All well that ends well.

bagoh20 said...

By rewarding the lie of not calling it a tax when it was in congress, Roberts has participated in thwarting the very political process he's thinks is the remedy. Make them pass laws honestly, respecting the voters, and stop playing dumb.

The voters can't decide to make remedy politically if you let the congress lie to them, and then rubber stamp it. Who are you defending?

AmPowerBlog said...

I've got you linked up, Ann: 'Chief Justice Roberts Sides With Court's Progressives to Uphold Constitutionality of ObamaCare'.

LoafingOaf said...

"Roberts reinterpreted it as a tax"

He exercised judicial restraint, which is what I thought conservatives were advocates of.

I see there are calls for violence against him (and his family) in this thread. Hmm.....

Brian Brown said...

LoafingOaf said...



He exercised judicial restraint,


Yes!

By re-writing the "penalty" as a tax!

Go away, idiot.

ihasch said...

Everything about this issue is demoralizing and indicates that our political class is out of its depth. A massive, potentially disasterous health care bill is steamrolled through a Congress giddy with its historical opportunity to ram such a bill down the people's collective throats, the bill is written and passed in such a manner as to prevent any legitimate scrutiny or debate, the bill, sold under false pretenses, turns out, with mind-numbing predictability, to be the exact opposite of what it was sold as being, and now the Supreme Court delivers a completely incoherent, fully politicized 5-4 decision that offers no solution (limiting the Commerce Clause while essentially expanding the Taxing Power so fundamentally that the Commerce discussion became superfluous). I just finished a massive history of the Dred Scott decision, and while I'm not drawing any hysterical parallels, the political pressures, the failure of the legislative process that signalled a crisis of legitimacy and the resulting judicial incoherence have a disquietingly similar ring to them.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Rush just made a good point.. if it turns out that Roberts was indeed intimidated by Obamas assertion that a court rejection would hurt the court.. news that a president could intimidate a court will go a long way to do just what Roberts purportedly fears.

The court cannot be trusted to call the way it sees it.. the way Roberts promise.

Looks like Rush just crashed Volock.

Farmer said...

LoafingOaf said...
I see there are calls for violence against him (and his family) in this thread. Hmm.....


No, there aren't calls for violence. There is one wish for violence, from an obvious nut.

Anonymous said...

God would you please smite down Whores of the Internet's blog? Send it plagues and viruses please, I beseech You. Have any of you here read it? Whoa.

God, An Original A-hole said...

@Carnifex, re: TOR etc... -

Chestnuts are fascinating, aren't they? So beautiful... I could look at one and admire it all day long. You just need to get past the prickly outside. Above all, don't let yourself get bonked on the head, because they fucking hurt.

You comment here in bad faith. Shame, shame, shame on you!!!

Anonymous said...

@Carnifex:

Dude, I wish I lived in KY, I'd be right there with you.

Tyranny has returned, full-throated, to the United States.

And you sniveling worms are too weak to fight it, or even try.

Farmer said...

AllieOop said...
God would you please smite down Whores of the Internet's blog? Send it plagues and viruses please, I beseech You. Have any of you here read it? Whoa.


Do we need to in order to know he's crackers?

matthew49 said...

What difference does it make if the commerce clause power is limited? The power to tax is now a grant of general powers (except as explicitly limited in the Bill of Rights or elsewhere in the constitution). The Congress can make you buy a car made in Michigan, or attend college and take a minimum amount of credits in Marxist theory, or anything, by just levying a large tax on not doing so. The old constitutional regime of a federal government with limited, enumerated powers has now been ended in a historic, historic decision. The federal government now has general power in all areas arising from the enumerated power to tax.

Matt Sablan said...

"He exercised judicial restraint, which is what I thought conservatives were advocates of.

I see there are calls for violence against him (and his family) in this thread."

-- Knock it off. The person posting it is so clearly a Moby/concern troll it's not even funny. Your side made a movie about killing Bush. Any even pretend anger over anonymous comments are laughable for you to even pretend to be upset about.

Farmer said...

whoresoftheinternet said...
Tyranny has returned, full-throated, to the United States.

And you sniveling worms are too weak to fight it, or even try.


You are a very silly man!

Carnifex said...

@DBQ

That's my plan too. I have tried to be self reliant in all things, you know what it gets you? nothing! I am gonna hit every Goddamned Gov't program, Fed, state, and local, and get mine. The faster we bankrupt this bitch the faster the rebuilding will begin.

Anonymous said...

@matthew49:

Those who have eyes to see, and the will to do so, see it.

Those who do not....cry for "civility."

Burn the government to the ground.

God, An Original A-hole said...

@AllieOop-

God would you please smite down Whores of the Internet's blog?

No... the last-decade vintage WordPress theme is punishment enough, and ensures that nobody will take it seriously anyway.

Anonymous said...

Mockery of freedom, and its messengers, shows how low you are, liberal.

You'll find out soon enough that Obama's palace guards don't bother protecting trashy sycophants to the dictator-in-chief.

Anonymous said...

OK God, I guess we will have to wait for Anonymous to do God's work.

Anonymous said...

@Farmer:

You are a very silly man!
---yes, daring to call for resistance to tyranny---and daring to recognize it---is silly to a bootlicker like you.

West Town said...

When the "taxes" have kicked in, can people, for whatever reason, sue the IRS for a refund after paying them?

Anonymous said...

@Allie Oop:

And so it begins. A leftist calls for the shutting down of viewpoints that bother her. Unsurprising. To me at least.

LoafingOaf said...

Jay, try and be more civil, child.

Emily Brazelon put it well in Slate: "This is fully in the tradition of judicial modesty and restraint: Courts are supposed to read ambiguous language in statutes to uphold them, if they can, without distorting the words beyond recognition. Because otherwise, they go too far to block the work of the directly elected branches—the definition of activism. That’s the gift Roberts gave President Obama and Congress. To read 'penalty' as 'tax' isn’t to distort. It is generous, but properly so."

Anonymous said...

Whore, your site is an abomination to freedom, you are Antichrist of Democracy, shame on you.

dreams said...

“The decision makes Obamacare a tax increase that falls primarily on young people and poor people who can’t afford it. With the Medicaid provisions struck down, government will not be there to help middle and low-income families who have to pay a huge percentage of their income for insurance or pay a large fine.

“That is not politically attractive, which is why Obama postponed the effective date of this law until after the election.”

Newsmax.com: Dick Morris

LoafingOaf said...

Oh my, is that a right wing terrorist posting on this thread?

george said...

We are well and truly screwed and we will be stuck with this thing until debt do us part.

I am just glad I decided to shut down my business and fire everyone because I saw this all coming. There will be a lot of people who will try to get out too late... even though they have been streaming for the exits for a good while now.

Rusty said...

The Farmer said...
Rusty said...
No. We're not like you liberals who threaten people with bodily harm.
Pissed, yeah. Hysterical, no.

If you don't think a comment equating America to Soviet Russia in the wake of this ruling is hysterical, what do you think it is?

P.S. I'm still not a liberal.



Um. I answered that above. Perhaps eye glasses are in order.

ed said...

America is dead and Roberts is the one holding the knife.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christopher in MA said...

garbage sneers:
I see some aren't taking this well.

And of course, the scum on the left are their usual selves. Just follow Insty to a Twitchy link where all kinds of good Democrat voters are calling Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" and a "field nigga."

Never forget - those are garbage's people. He's with them, lock, stock and barrel.

Sloanasaurus said...

At some point the State of Minnesota is going to have to determine whether we want to pay for the 200-400,000 additional people, who are not poor, that are supposed to be covered under Obamacare - the medicaid expansion piece. At first Obamacare covers most of the cost, but by 2020, the states have to cover it. If it cost $3000 a year to cover someone for insurance, that is a $1.2 billion tax increase per year to cover people who are not poor... and it will be a tax that will go up exponentially.

The voters are not going to support these massive tax increases in the states. Eventually no state will participate in the expansion programs.

DADvocate said...

This ruling has the feeling of "this law is wrong, but we'll find a way to rule it constitutional in order to avoid a constitutional crisis." The executive and legislative branches have effectively bullied the judicial branch.

Carnifex said...

@God

Not meant to be, I just think the best government is the least government. Do you honestly believe the NSA, the CIA, NDA, the DOJ, the FBI, etc. don't monitor, and subvert things like TOR, web sites, or any e-mail?

You're talking about a government that thinks it's okay to feel up little kids, and your grandmother, looking for bombs, while letting terrorists into the White House.

That everyone has to obey their laws, except themselves. That they're special, and can hold up traffic while they speed past in their gas guzzling suv's to get to the airport to fly to Rio to attend a conference on how to cut down on green house gasses.

No! No! No!

I am tired of the bullshit and pc crap. Zero is an unqualified hack who can't put 2 thoughts in his vast empty head together!

The Democrats are a bunch of socialist who lie everytime they open theit mouths, and the Reps are spneless nutless wannabe democrats.

The government as it stands today is innimical to you and me. It has only one purpose, to get bigger, and bigger and more intrusive as it gets bigger and bigger.

If I want to drink a 44oz. caffiene cola it ain't the governments business.

If I want to spend 24 hours a day 7 days a week looking at porn, it ain't the governments business.

If I want to smoke marijuana, and shoot crack cocaine into my eyeballs, it ain't the governments business. Right into my eyeballs!

It only becomes the business of the government if I hurt someone else doing it.

And by someone else, I mean a real live touchable human being. Not Gaia, not my dogs or cats, not dead babies channeled by John Edwards.

Otherwise, just leave me and my family alone.

Unknown said...

The tax is obviously going to have to exceed an individual's cost of purchasing insurance on the state exchange, probably by a signficant amount. Otherwise, as Prof. Althouse notes, the whole scheme falls apart because healthy individuals have no incentive to purchase insurance -- it's costlier and more work than paying the tax bill, and you can always buy insurance when you decide you want to purchase some health care.

Assuming the tax is increased to a point above the no-incentive-to-buy line, how is the IRS going to collect these large tax bills from low-income and no-income individuals who still choose to not buy insurance?

Seven Machos said...

I am so ridiculously prescient and awesome. Here is what I said months upon months ago in this very forum:

here's my theory: the Court will say that what Congress is doing is actually a tax, and that Congress has stupidly burdened itself with semantics for political reasons. The law cannot stand as is, because Congress is claiming Commerce Clause power that does not exist. But all Congress needs to do to make the law work is rewrite the bill such that it is claiming taxing power.

Alternatively, the Court will find that Congress has the power to levy a tax even if it doesn't call it a tax. A tax is a tax.


That's as close as anybody got. Clearly, a win going away for me. You all can owe me.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

The executive and legislative branches have effectively bullied the judicial branch.

Chances are that bulling stories will suddenly disappear from the headlines.

Saint Croix said...

But regulating the health insurance industry is clearly a matter of regulating commerce

Yes!

and the people who don't buy health insurance are substantially undercutting the success of that big scheme.

You're arguing the ends justify the means? You, a law professor!

The marijuana farmer, like the wheat farmer, is engaging in commerce. If you're engaging in commerce, the feds can regulate you. It's necessary and proper to regulate in-state commerce in order to regulate interstate and international commerce. That makes sense. I agree with that.

The person who's not doing anything is not in the commercial arena! You are dragging him in, forcing him into the commercial arena, and then saying, "now we have the authority to regulate you." I find that argument obscene, actually.

Here's a hypo:

You have an arena, where Christians volunteer to fight lions.

The government has authority to regulate this activity.

You have powers to do whatever is necessary and proper on behalf of your ability to regulate the combat in this arena.

Christians don't want to volunteer because it's not in their self-interest to fight lions.

You then say, "Okay, we have authority to drag Christians into the arena and force them to fight the lions against their will. Because if we didn't have this authority, we won't have any Christians to fight the lions and our whole construct will fall."

Daddy Binx said...

Sloanasaurus said...
I am wondering if the limit the court put on the Medicaid expansion is being underrepported here.


I was wondering about this, myself. That and the bright-line limit on application of the Commerce clause would seem to be a victory (albeit small) for conservatives/libertarians. Perhaps Roberts decided to play a longer game here?

Also, how does the ACA (with it's new tax-not-a-mandate) even work now? Insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. But without the influx of millions of young and healthy clients, won't they be forced to either raise rates to unexceptable levels or go out of business?

I just don't see how this accomplishes anything except making a hash out of the entire law.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Sorry seven if don't congratulate you..

A sort of intuition I had that the court still stood as a check on run away government was ripped to shreds.

Roe is the norm.. not the exception.

Kirby Olson said...

I think that Roberts had to sign it, both to send a message to those on his side that he won't be an activist, and on the other side that they should cut it out. But he injected a lot of lethal language into the decision which poisons it. The most damaging is to argue that it is a tax. Obama swore up and down it was not a tax. So if Stealthcare was a Trojan Horse that was a huge mandated tax increase, it's now a Trojan Horse that has been rolled back into the Democratic camp with lots of deadly new language inside and timed to explode in Obama's face just before the election. What Roberts did is say, fine, but call it what it is. This will reenergize the Tea Party, I should think.

Unknown said...

This massive bill was written with a "mandate", rammed through congress with a "mandate", argued at the SC as a "mandate". Justice Roberts clearly says that the mandate is unconstitutional. This should be withdrawn, re-written and put to a new vote in congress as a constitutional tax. That way there is no snake in the grass BS, and we can see who votes for what and act accordingly come election time.

Carnifex said...

Make that 44oz caffiene cola, with a topping of bacon grease, with sprinkles made of cracklin's....MMM, mmmm, goood

If you Yankees never tried real craclin's you don't know. :-)

lge said...

Supreme Court says, "This law is legal because a magic unicorn flew out of my butt and told me so. You wanna make something of it?"

No, there's nothing we can do about it.

dreams said...

"Liberal legal scholars are not going to like most of today’s constitutional rulings; their wailing will start pretty soon. In the long run, today’s constitutional rulings will be seen as an important victory in promoting fidelity to the Constitution and the ideal of limited government. The American people and their elected representatives have a lot of work to do to repeal and replace the Obamacare statute. Moreover, we still have an uphill battle to restore and preserve the written Constitution we have been bequeathed, but the Court today put some temporary brakes on our republic’s descent down an extra-constitutional slippery slope in which the federal government can control any aspect of our lives that has any imaginable impact on commerce—meaning everything."

Betsyspage.blogspot.com

lge said...

Analyzing the Supreme Court's actions is like reviewing rap music -- it ignores the fact that it's all phony and it's all crap.

(I tweet such twits at https://twitter.com/lgeubank )

Hagar said...

Via Instapundit:

"Text of the opinion is still not online. But here’s ScotusBlog’s summary:

In Plain English: The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn’t comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding. . . . Yes, to answer a common question, the whole ACA is constitutional, so the provision requiring insurers to cover young adults until they are 26 survives as well.

So there you are. The Supreme Court has refused to save us from ourselves. The remedy now will have to be political.

FINALLY: Here’s a link to the opinion. I should also note that for those who thought the Lopez case dead, this opinion indicates that it remains very much alive. It appears that there may also be support on the Court for limiting Congress’s spending power. Has Roberts pulled a Marbury, appearing to give ground while actually laying the foundation for change in the future? Call that an optimistic reading.
"

Steve said...

My neighbors can now delegate to the federal government their "right to make me do any dang thing they want" as long as the consequences are a 'tax'. A tax which if I don't pay I will go to jail for. The scope of the government is now functionally unlimited.

Maybe I should grow some wheat in protest.

Unknown said...

Last I read, the HHS queen has promulgated 10,000 pages of regs for Obamacare, and they are just getting started.

As a lay person, not an attorney, I want to thank Roberts for tossing that little pebble against the Goliath of the commerce clause.

I will keep that in mind, as I die from over taxation and tyrannical government control by the IRS.

garage mahal said...

Just follow Insty to a Twitchy link

Ah, no thanks. To either!

DADvocate said...

An hour or so ago, I say Patrick Leahy on CNN comparing Obamacare to Social Security. He talked about how we'll improve Obamacare the same way we improved SS. ?! Social Security is going broke. When does reality catch up with these jokers? Never, most likely, because the make sure to take care of themselves.

Carnifex said...

I assume this ruling means I can eat whatever the hell I want, and you people will pick up the bill, right?

Does it also mean I can quit paying that hosptal bill from 17 years ago when my tumor ruptured while I had no insurance? I mean, I've been paying on it a long time.

Can I get a lap band now? It's a win/win cause not only will I loose weight, but it will seal up the abdominal hernias that I have.

And Lasik...I need my eye's fixed. I've been discriminated against for wearing glasses for decades.

Do they have surgery to fix sleep apnea? Regardless, I need a new machine, mines over a decade old.

Wht about dental, I've got these cavities...

flat feet...

high blood pressure...

etc...

I'm gonna be the $6,000,000 man when I get down.

Oh!!! Penis enlargement!... no complaints, but my wife is a forgiving woman.

damikesc said...

By rewarding the lie of not calling it a tax when it was in congress, Roberts has participated in thwarting the very political process he's thinks is the remedy. Make them pass laws honestly, respecting the voters, and stop playing dumb.

THIS. You can't friggin' reward somebody for lying. Repeatedly.

The power to tax is now a grant of general powers (except as explicitly limited in the Bill of Rights or elsewhere in the constitution).

Not necessarily. I don't believe a tax can be ruled illegal until it is collected.

Rabel said...

Seven,

Close, but no cigar.

You left out the part about Robert's rewriting the law for them, which they could not do in a politically viable manner.

But still, closer than almost anybody else.

LoafingOaf said...

In other SCOTUS news, Chief Justice Roberts also joined the liberals (along with Justice Kennedy, making it 6-3) to stand up for freedom of speech and strike down the The Stolen Valor Act in United States v. Alvarez. Good day for America all the way around!

I'm Full of Soup said...

Seven- pretty close so we will admit you are close to awesome sometimes.

But tell us what you think of Roberts thinking. The more I think about it, he seems to have used Solomon-like wisdom.

Balfegor said...

Re: Rabel:

That's what he meant when he wrote:

Alternatively, the Court will find that Congress has the power to levy a tax even if it doesn't call it a tax. A tax is a tax.

Court isn't rewriting anything at all, just piercing, as it were, the veil of Presidential and Congressional BS.

RonF said...

Since its now a tax, the tax must be collected so you can't just dodge not paying the penalty. So in order to make the penalty for non payment of the tax effective it will have to be at least as large if not larger than the tax.

That depends on what your object is. If your object is to force people to buy health insurance from private companies, then you're right.

If your object is to get people to quit buying insurance from private companies, increase revenue to the Federal Government and get people to sign up for insurance from the government, putting the private insurance companies out of business, then making the fine about 50% or less of what it would cost to buy private insurance is the perfect way to do it.

Which do you think will happen?

After all, unlike private companies, the government doesn't have to make money. It's a tax. They'll just make up any shortfalls from other tax revenues.

Real American said...

“The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” - Abraham Lincoln

bgates said...

I just hope that when President Romney adopts Turley's suggestion to pack the court, he puts Justice Thomas in charge of picking the ten new guys.

And he remembers to introduce legislation subjecting anyone who introduces legislation to alter the magic number 19 to a tax of a hundred billion dollars.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Former Democrat Artur Davis in the corner.


John Roberts’ surprise defection is a policy victory for Barack Obama that is worth no votes: just as Democrats miscalculated in 2010 by assuming that the passage of the healthcare law would prove that they could get things done, they are drawing the wrong lesson today if they assume a court’s vindication of an unpopular law will somehow validate the first Obama term. The hostility to Obamacare among independents and swing voters is based on the cold fact that precious few of them believe it has done a thing to lower their premiums or improve their coverage, and that won’t change.


But there is a larger story: this result shows the left’s continuing capacity to shape elite opinion by marginalizing positions that roughly half the country holds. Just as the left has caricatured opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion as retrograde and extreme, it just pulled off the same feat in the context of Obamacare: the case was made, and Roberts bought it, that a Court that has struck down 169 congressional statutes would somehow be dangerously activist if it added a 170th one to the mix. Its an undemocratic, disingenuous sleight of hand that the left is practicing, but it is winning: the cost is that it only widens the gap between Middle America and the elite.


Very well put.

Saint Croix said...

So there is really no limit on what types of activity may be compelled, or inactivity prohibited, via the imposition of a tax.

That's obviously not true. You can't say "go to church or pay a tax." You can't say "vote for me or pay tax."

The taxation authority is unlimited. But you can't use that valid authority as means to do something unconstitutional.

I'm working my way through the Roberts opinion. He cites South Dakota v. Dole, which I consider to be a horrible opinion. In that case the federal government said to South Dakota, "Raise your drinking age or we will cut off your highway funds."

Congress has general authority to spend money. It's unlimited, like the tax power is unlimited.

But in Dole the feds are using a legitimate spending power to do something illegitimate (raise the drinking age). Congress has no authority to raise the drinking age. Congress has no authority under Article 1 to do that.

So Congress is attempt to use a legitimate power to do something illegitimate. Congress clearly cannot raise the drinking age on its own. And yet Congress is doing just that.

So now I'm trying to square Roberts' opinion with my hostility to Dole.

Yes, Congress has an unlimited authority to tax. But Congress does not have an authority to use the tax power to do things that are unconstitutional.

"Smoke marijuana or we will tax you."

So that's a problem. Is buying health insurance a tax (and thus a legitimate use of the taxing power?) Or is Congress using the tax power to force people to do things they don't want to do (buy health insurance).

Probably the latter, right?

And what's an even bigger problem is the idea that Obamacare is a tax and the funds go to private enterprise. That's fucked up.

"Give money to Microsoft or we will tax you." They can't do that. Can they?

Matt Sablan said...

They can't make you give money to a specific entity. They can't say, buy Blue Cross/Blue Shield. They can, however, say that you must buy a vehicle. Or be taxed. You know, your life would be easier with a convenient means of travel. We could use the tax to build electric trains for people who can't afford cars.

yashu said...

Seven Machos called it. Tipping my hat, sir.

The more I think about it, he seems to have used Solomon-like wisdom.

Yep. I'm unhappy about the decision, but there's a lot to unpack here. For one thing, he's laying bare the ostensible "winners" here-- as liars. Perpetrating a lie upon the public.

The only way ACA was passed, and the only way it is now upheld, is that its supporters played on an impossible double identity-- now this not that, now that not this. That dissemblance is now stripped away.

Chuck66 said...

St Croix, correct.

Example we all know...."purchase birth control and abortion pills for your employees, or we will put you out of business.

Anonymous said...

Trolls, Roberts, and Republicans:
"No, really, Roberts had to save Obamacare to guarantee individual freedom!"

You leftist liars, traitors, and cowards will never cease. Trial and execution are too good for you.

yashu said...

Speaking of trolls.

PackerBronco said...

Rabel said...
Seven,

Close, but no cigar.

You left out the part about Robert's rewriting the law for them, which they could not do in a politically viable manner.

But still, closer than almost anybody else.

6/28/12 2:01 PM


Indeed, what Roberts could have done is overrule the ACA with the instruction that had the act being written as a tax or penalty, then it would have passed constitutional muster.

But then, Congress would never had had the stones to do that.

So in order to keep the law intact, Roberts says, "well it's a tax afterall".

I call that legislating from the bench.

Unknown said...

Been reading Althouse, Volokh and others but can’t find anyone who can explain to us simpletons in flyover country if there is an example of a previous "tax" imposed for not acting? I get SS as I might get that back but can you identify a tax that only targeted a specific group, cost each person a different amount, and yet was for not taking action?

Mike in Keller said...

The Supreme Court has just printed a roadmap for every invasion of personal liberty that the liberals can come up with. So long as they say, "If you don't do this, your income taxes will be higher," the decision will be, "It's a tax and therefore it's constitutional."

I'm betting everyone is crazily understating how bad this is in the long run.

Mil-Tech Bard said...

My highest priority constitutional amendment:

“All federal judicial offices shall be elective on such terms and conditions as Congress may provide. The President may fill vacancies by appointment.”

Given the Robert’s decision on Obamacare, there is now no downside to the State Governor’s calling a constitutional convention to get such an amendment.

Alex said...

Honestly I have no problem with this decision. Taxing authority rests with Congress. Chief Justice Roberts was the only 1 of the 9 who actually voted for the right reason. Let the political process decide ObamaCare, not the SCOTUS.

Alex said...

The voters can't decide to make remedy politically if you let the congress lie to them, and then rubber stamp it. Who are you defending?

Bagoh - so you're arguing that the American people are too stoopid and need to protected from themselves. If we're that far along, then our civilization doesn't have long to survive.

Calypso Facto said...

So long as they say, "If you don't do this, your income taxes will be higher," the decision will be, "It's a tax and therefore it's constitutional."

Should result in a big boost for Fair Tax supporters. Eliminate the legislate by taxation method.

Matt Sablan said...

Alex: I agree. If it is a tax, it is a supportable decision. I just didn't think anyone really believed it was a tax, which is the surprise. Oh well, onward to November.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The mandate is a tax for NOT purchasing insurance. The tax is supposidly to make insurance "affordable" for everyone.

So by that same rationale, if it would lower the cost of gasoline, I should be taxed for gas even if I don't own a car or drive?

Alex said...

Matthew - also by voting this way, Roberts blew apart the notion that the current SCOTUS is somehow the most radical, right-wing EVAR and throws the liberals for a huge loop. Remember Roberts just voted to uphold Citizens United which really got the libs into a froth.

Matt Sablan said...

Alex: You assume they'll be consistent. Next time there's a close case, we'll again hear about Citizens United and the politicization of the Court and wondering if Roberts can, again, withstand the pressure from the right. It'll just be a little bit sillier then.

Seeing Red said...

---). The Congress can make you buy a car made in Michigan, or attend college and take a minimum amount of credits in Marxist theory, or anything, by just levying a large tax on not doing so.---


It sounds like sharia.

Sure, you can be a Christian, but we'll tax you 100%.

ed said...

Frankly what I find most amusing are the comments by the Republicans here who are trying their best to make it seem that this Roberts Shitburger is really tasty.

The reality is vastly different. Conservatives were apprehensive about Roberts for a lot of reasons but you frigging Republicans shouted about how he was a great scholar and blah blah blah bullshit. And yet here we are.

Oh you can push that crap about how brilliant Roberts is for this shitburger. Go right ahead. But over the next few years we'll all see what kind of rotten cadaverous shitburger this really is and each and every fucking time you Republicans will have yet another chance to cry out about how fucking brilliant Roberts was to do this.

And I'll still be laughing at you for being the self-deceptive assholes you are.

Seeing Red said...

--Example we all know...."purchase birth control and abortion pills for your employees, or we will put you out of business.---


Get the EPA to declare birth contol pills hazardous to fish and humans & raise taxes on them.

mrego said...

"Also, how does the ACA (with it's new tax-not-a-mandate) even work now? Insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. But without the influx of millions of young and healthy clients, won't they be forced to either raise rates to unexceptable levels or go out of business?"

Duh. This is why I've always said to liberals complaining that they wanted "single payer" that what they got IS single payer. Once the government writes the rules and runs the game, the government will soon own it all as all independent companies drop out of the business of insurance. THIS IS SINGLE PAYER.

Alex said...

I can see 90% of you have decided to go off the cliff into hysterical la-la land. The fact is any House that would try to pass some crazy tax wouldn't last very long. Simple solution - stop electing Democrats and stop expecting the SCOTUS to legislate.

DADvocate said...

Roberts wrote about limiting the commerce clause and the spending power. I would bet on what would happen when push comes to shove.

Václav Patrik Šulik said...

I'm very relieved to know that Akhil Reed Amar's life is not a fraud.

ed said...

@ Alex

"I can see 90% of you have decided to go off the cliff into hysterical la-la land. The fact is any House that would try to pass some crazy tax wouldn't last very long. Simple solution - stop electing Democrats and stop expecting the SCOTUS to legislate."

Progressives don't have to pass taxes. They can just pass "penalties" and then pressure Roberts into rewriting the legislation into taxes. Because that is precisely what happened here. Roberts rewrote the ACA for the Democrats. So now they can still claim they passed a penalty and not a tax while the Republicans will have to try and explain how it is really a tax and not a penalty. Meanwhile the lefty media will be behind the Democrats and pushing their version of things every step of the way.

Good luck with that.

ed said...

Let's go over this again just in case nobody was following along.

1. Congress declines to legislate the mandate as a tax and specifically legislates it as a penalty.

2. Every member of Congress who voted for it claims it is a penalty and not a tax. Obama, who signed it into law, claims it is a penalty and not a tax. The final signed legislation claims the mandate is a penalty and not a tax.

3. Government lawyers claim the mandate is a penalty and not a tax in their arguments before the SCOTUS.

4. And now trundles in Roberts who helpfully rewrites the ACA mandate as a tax and not a penalty.

Brilliant!

Yeah good job there Republicans. When it comes to nominating SCOTUS justices you're almost as bad as putting a Democrat into the White House.

Fat Man said...

John Roberts is Obama's b;tch.

Alex said...

ed - the ACA was passed in 2009. In 2010, the American people threw out Pelosi from being in charge of the House. That's what democracy looks like. Now Romney has to throw Obama out and the GOP needs to regain the Senate. Then we can repeal ObamaCare. Why do you insist that the SCOTUS legislate everything? Do you not believe in 3 branches of government?

ed said...

@ Alex

"ed - the ACA was passed in 2009. In 2010, the American people threw out Pelosi from being in charge of the House. That's what democracy looks like. Now Romney has to throw Obama out and the GOP needs to regain the Senate. Then we can repeal ObamaCare. Why do you insist that the SCOTUS legislate everything? Do you not believe in 3 branches of government?"

1. Changing the leadership of the House is one thing. Doing so in the Senate with a big enough margin to repeal the ACA is something completely different. The idea that the ACA can be repealed easily is just nonsense. While the mandate was ruled a tax the entire ACA is -not- a tax. So filibustering is available as a tactic.

2. I have ZERO confidence that Romney will repeal the entire ACA. ZERO. I'll believe it when it happens. But if I were you I wouldn't put money on it.

3. I have ZERO confidence that congressional Republicans will repeal the entire ACA. ZERO.

4. Your reading comprehension needs work. I'm not demanding the SCOTUS legislate from the bench. Roberts ALREADY did legislate from the bench when he rewrote the ACA law so that the mandate was no longer a penalty but was now rewritten as a tax.

Do you understand this very simple basic point? The mandate was specifically written as a penalty by Democrats. They refused specifically to write the mandate as a tax. Roberts concluded that the mandate as a penalty was not constitutional. Roberts then rewrote the mandate so it was now a tax and as a tax it could now pass as constitutional.

Do you understand this?

Alex said...

ed - you're plain batshit insane and I have nothing more to say to you.

Saint Croix said...

John Roberts is Obama's bitch.

Hardly. Now Obama has to run on Obamacare. He can't hide from it or ignore it. He can't be quiet about it. It's a massive tax on the American people. He can't deny that. Obamacare will be the issue in the 2012 election. As it should be!

Are you familiar with judo?

Guildofcannonballs said...

Well,

Talk is cheap, and money talks, so money is cheap.

What's the problem?

Balfegor said...

Having now browsed through the opinion & dissent, I have to say this bit from the conservative dissent:

The manner of collection could perhaps suggest a tax if IRS penalty-collection were unheard-of or rare. It is not. See, e.g., 26 U. S. C. §527(j) (2006 ed.) (IRS-collectible penalty for failure to make campaign-finance disclosures);§5761(c) (IRS-collectible penalty for domestic sales of tobacco products labeled for export); §9707 (IRS-collectible penalty for failure to make required health-insurance premium payments on behalf of mining employees). In Reorganized CF&I Fabricators of Utah, Inc., 518 U. S. 213, we held that an exaction not only enforced by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue but even called a “tax” was in fact a penalty. “[I]f the concept of penalty means anything,” we said, “it means punishment for an unlawful act or omission.” Id., at 224.

is new to me, and makes me less comfortable with the mandate=tax argument.

Anonymous said...

"A political price will be paid — both for the tax and the deceit about imposing a tax."

Isn't this issue between something being a tax and being permissible under congress' taxing authority?

Daddy Binx said...

Now that the mandate is now a tax, what happens to all those waivers that DHS has issued? Can the Executive issue tax waivers or does Congress get to have a say?

Chip S. said...

For one thing, he's laying bare the ostensible "winners" here-- as liars. Perpetrating a lie upon the public.

yashu, you're one of my favorite commenters here, but I've gotta respond to this by saying that I didn't need the SC to tell me that politicians are liars.

Roberts could've kept that brilliant insight to himself and just voted with Kennedy.

bagoh20 said...

"Bagoh - so you're arguing that the American people are too stoopid and need to protected from themselves..."

It doesn't matter if they are stupid or not, the court's job is to be a check on the other branches. When the congress passes a law before anyone can see what's in it, pay members off for votes, lying about what it is, and sneaking it through in a totally partisan way, then yes, the court should be protecting us from that. In other words, doing their job. That goes for any law passed like that, whether popular or controversial. Do your job Roberts.

MadRiverBlogger said...

It was really quite simple. Chief Justice John Roberts just got himself played on the wrong court. He should have known this President had no intention of ever being a lawyer.
Obama's has always been an organizer … in sneakers. He points, he blames … and then he scores big in the media. It's his only game and he plays it with the world's most winning smile.
So alas, poor little Johnny lost our lunch money. He showed up in wingtips—clutching the Constitution— thinking Obama (in the future) will play by some new rules.
Silly man.

ed said...

@ Alex

"ed - you're plain batshit insane and I have nothing more to say to you."

Well in the words of my late grandfather - "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.".

It's pretty clear to me that you haven't invested any time in actually looking at this. Just the suggestion that -I- am asking for SCOTUS to legislate from the bench is clear evidence of that. So not discussing this, or anything else for that matter, is something that I'd put in the "win" column.

Just one last easy bit for you to remember: Justice Kennedy, Mr. Swing Vote himself, declared that the entire ACA was unconstitutional and should be scrapped entirely.

So you can put that where the sun does not shine for all I care.

yashu said...

Chip S., you're right.

And I'm rethinking the other part of my comment too. I said "The only way ACA was passed, and the only way it is now upheld, is that its supporters played on an impossible double identity-- now this not that, now that not this. That dissemblance is now stripped away."

But alas, no. Roberts has done precisely what ACA's supporters did: play on the double identity. As light is wave or particle (at once both but exclusively one or the other), so the mandate is penalty or tax. At any given moment, ACA's supporters defined the mandate as suited their present purpose-- penalty not tax, tax not penalty.

Roberts has done exactly the same... worse. The mandate is interpreted as a tax not penalty (light is interpreted as particles not wave) because the tax is constitutional, and a penalty would not be. Whatever it takes. Even though the crafters of the law framed it as penalty not tax, the judge of its constitutionality can interpret it as tax not penalty. Tax or penalty, wave or particle, whatever suits the purpose (in this case, of upholding the law). Ugh.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

The mandate is a tax for NOT purchasing insurance.

You're not being taxed for NOT buying insurance, dummy. You're being taxed. Period.

And if you have insurance, like most of the country does, then you are exempt.

There are all sorts of rebates, deductions, exemptions, loopholes, etc. -- when it comes to taxation, home ownership is a great example.

Why we should create tax incentives to encourage home ownership, but not to prevent costly E.D. visits provided for free on the public dime, is something that only faulty programming can explain.

But the Queen of Dirt Buggies is free to try.

Alex said...

Ritmo - you seriously want to get MOAR people into mortgages they can't possibly pay back?

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

That wasn't what I said.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

When I said a "great example", I meant it's an obvious example. I wasn't saying that I thought it was a worthwhile policy.

DADvocate said...

It's a massive tax on the American people.

Nearly half pay no income tax. They'll probably love the freedies.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Also, although I've said it before, Katy Perry is the best artist of my generation.

I care about that.

wv: Coexista slang Two baristas who previously were employed at other places, in the mode of an expat.

Guildofcannonballs said...

For an alternative opinion, such as it is, see here, but be forewarned it is not for the faint of heart or those prone toward vaporishness.

As Kid Rock said, "I'm back like smack, and so are the vapors."

Guildofcannonballs said...

Not that General Patton would have said it, but that being the case were he would to have, why, then, Other than?

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 311 of 311   Newer› Newest»