August 20, 2012

"In the wake of Modern Guilt and The Information, Beck’s latest album comes in an almost-forgotten form..."

"... twenty songs existing only as individual pieces of sheet music, never before released or recorded."

Sweet. People used to play their own music. Back in the 1930s, my mother bought sheet music. That was how the hit songs were purchased back then. I have a box of those old songs in my hall closet. But things are different today: Beck is inviting people to record these songs, and he's working with McSweeney's to make (some of) our versions of his songs available on line.

58 comments:

YoungHegelian said...

As someone who has looked at many more classical scores than rock songs in sheet music, I'm amazed at the loosey-goosey relationship in R&R between what's on that page and what gets recorded or performed.

I like to see where these songs fall on that written out vs improvised/added-on continuum.

Palladian said...

I cannot listen to (or read, as the case may be) Beck's work without being reminded that he's a Scientologist.

I tend to be very forgiving of the personal and political failings of artists, but for some reason knowing that someone is a Scientologist just leaves me cold.

CarolMR said...

My dad, who died 3 years ago at the age of 85, had thousands of pieces of sheet music. He was a guitarist and read music better than he could read words. He played songs by reading the sheet music. When he died, I wanted to give my nephew and cousin, also guitarists, his sheet music, but they don't know how to read music at all. A shame. So I ended up giving my dad's sheet music to his musician friends who were the same age as he was and knew how to read music.

The Crack Emcee said...

I like some of Beck's music, but fuck that:

The only thing important about him is he's a Scientologist.

That, and nobody will ask him why, considering,...

jr565 said...

Why did Beck become a scientologist?
Maybe this will explain it:
Forces of evil in a bozo nightmare
Banned all the music with a phony gas chamber
'Cause one's got a weasel and the other's got a flag
One's got on the pole shove the other in a bag
With the rerun shows and the cocaine nose job
The daytime crap of a folksinger slob
He hung himself with a guitar string

Any questions?

rhhardin said...

I played The Mulliner Book over and over in high school.

Mostly pieces from an LP by Thurston Dart, though.

chickelit said...

I had no clue that Beck was a Scientologist. We like his music at our house and we saw him live a couple years ago at San Diego Street Scenes. But now I'm going to have to destroy all his music before he infects our children.

Pastafarian said...

Palladian, I tend to agree, in some situations -- certain actors, whose popularity outstrips their talent, for example. I'm left with the sense that they're only successful because of some Scientology network that works the way the Masons once did.

I try to resist this prejudice, but...Vinnie Barbarino.

But in Beck's case, he's a goddamned genius. I'll cut him some slack.

I'm not sure about this sheet music idea; the genius seems to be in labeling, arranging, and pricing the sheet music as an album. Mmmkay. But how many people out there can play actual guitar well enough to play this music? Not Guitar Hero, but actual acoustic guitar, with strings and shit?

Imagine if Jimi Hendrix did this, and extended parts of songs simply read "improvise with an impossibly melodic series of howls that sound less like guitar than they do shrieks of the damned." I can't imagine many buyers.

Lem said...

"I want to make music my living," said Hung, before he started singing and dancing to Ricky Martin's "She Bangs".

Should this go "viral".. we could have an on-line next Star/Idol search in our hands...

Wouldn't it be funny if say a Hung style (or no-style) version does better than expected.. we would know by play count.

rhhardin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Crack Emcee said...

From the second link, above, about two Scientology/Beck-related suicides of two (truly) great artists:

Beck’s involvement in Scientology was unconfirmed to the public until 2005, when he acknowledged his affiliation in an interview with The New York Times, lauding the sect for its work with illiterate kids and drug addicts.

Two stories making the cult rounds today:

Thousands of primary school kids taught by secret scientologists

Families question Scientology-linked drug rehab after recent deaths

But who cares about kids being indoctrinated by a cult, right under their parent's noses, or anybody's families being troubled by a few deaths?

Beck's got sheet music!!!!

rhhardin said...

Mulliner Book and my bookcase of sheet music.

Marshal said...

Palladian said...
I cannot listen to (or read, as the case may be) Beck's work without being reminded that he's a Scientologist.

I tend to be very forgiving of the personal and political failings of artists, but for some reason knowing that someone is a Scientologist just leaves me cold.


I feel similarly, and I think it results from the combination of modernity, marketing, and the lack of substance. We're only now reaching a point where adults have been brought up in the religion. So until very recently you had to make a conscious choice to become a Scientologist. The entire marketing plan is an appeal to narcissism and ego. Then the aliens.

So these geniuses pay millions to prove they're smarter / better than everyone else, but when Hubbard gets to the alien reveal they don't realize they've been scammed?

bagoh20 said...

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves.

The Crack Emcee said...

Marshal,

So these geniuses pay millions to prove they're smarter / better than everyone else, but when Hubbard gets to the alien reveal they don't realize they've been scammed?

Sure they do. But by then they've paid millions.

Hell, I can't get anyone here to admit they're wrong about cultism FOR FREE!

And then of course, there's this.

Looks like the kind of place where Ann likes to hang out,...

The Crack Emcee said...

bagoh20,

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves.

The difference being they knew they were slaves.

They weren't running around telling everybody, "Boy oh boy, eating white people's table scraps is good for your health and will make you rich!"

Evidence, that slaves in the past - with little-to-no education - could be light years ahead of either today's wealthy or those who went to college.

[Immediately after I wrote that, my hands involuntarily flew up to my head, it's just so incomprehensible to me,...]

jr565 said...

Marshal wrote:
So these geniuses pay millions to prove they're smarter / better than everyone else, but when Hubbard gets to the alien reveal they don't realize they've been scammed?

Do you think when the CHristians get to the "Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine and raised a man from the dead, healed the lepers through touch alone and then died for your sins and was resurrected" part that they realize THEY'VE been scammed?

jr565 said...

Evidence, that slaves in the past - with little-to-no education - could be light years ahead of either today's wealthy or those who went to college.

Many slaves believe in Christianity and a just god. SO how are they light years ahead of those who went to college, since they too believe in superstitions?

Marshal said...

jr565 said...
Marshal wrote:
So these geniuses pay millions to prove they're smarter / better than everyone else, but when Hubbard gets to the alien reveal they don't realize they've been scammed?

Do you think when the CHristians get to the "Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine and raised a man from the dead, healed the lepers through touch alone and then died for your sins and was resurrected" part that they realize THEY'VE been scammed?


Ah, the ever-present anti-religion jerk. In fact Christians have a wide variety of interpretations. Far broader and nuanced than the those of the jerks.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

"Thomas Jefferson owned slaves."
~
"The difference being they knew they were slaves."

My point was that Jefferson knew it too. It didn't negate everything else he did. Choosing to eliminate people from consideration for one fact about them or one belief is usually just counter-productive.

Scientologists are pretty scary to me, but it doesn't mean they can't write music or act. I don't want them in my life, but I would hire one to do any number of things, as long as it didn't involve taking my kids anywhere.

jr565 said...

Marshal wrote:
Ah, the ever-present anti-religion jerk. In fact Christians have a wide variety of interpretations. Far broader and nuanced than the those of the jerks.

Who said I'm anti religious? the point being though, that all belief systems have some bizarro ideas (even things like evolution)and for those that don't believe them they are poppycock. For those that do, they're eminently reasonable. YOu mght think Tom Cruises belief in aliens is crazy, he might think your belief in Jesus is crazy.
And this is also because Crack keeps singling out mormons for thier crackpot thinking but, while not expressing a religious belief, doesn't hold christians to a similar standard of rejecting them for their views simply because the views are CRAZY (unlike mormons).
But if you believe in a perfectly rational world, then all religions are silly and magical underpants are as absurd as the idea that Jesus died for our sins.

Chip Ahoy said...

This is amazing. It will be interesting to see what people do with it. I bet Beck pisses himself when he sees and hears interpretations on YouTube Facebook and all the rest.

It's like that coloring book thing except Beck has a better attitude then I did. When I saw what the kids did all splayed out like that like wallpaper, they went so far beyond crayons it wasn't even funny, it was a calamitous riot of sparkly pens, glue and sprinkles, marker pens, paint pens, glued macaroni, string, yarn, feathers, and pipe-cleaners. The stupid plain original black outlines were loaded with crap, everything except crayon. Almost. I had no idea there were that many kids out there eager to engage something like that, I had no way of knowing, but Beck seems to understand what I didn't.

Chip Ahoy said...

One equivalent to this in my present world would be to produce pop-up card kits. The kit could contain templates with instructions. Either for one card or several. Physical kits with the paper in there already printed.

This can be done online too. There are a few places that do this. I saw one that offered flowers. All similar design.

I've been asked to do this, but honestly, that's not fun for me right now, to make one then back engineer it and splay it all out and present it in flat form so that any dummkopf can assemble it, but it's the same sort of thing that Beck is doing. I played this and like it, here, you produce it. Will there be anything else? $5.00 please. It's so giving

Paddy O said...

"But if you believe in a perfectly rational world, then all religions are silly and magical underpants are as absurd as the idea that Jesus died for our sins."

Assuming, of course, that all we have of various religions is a list of things that they believe, with no context or history or differentiation of evidence.

It's like saying that quantum physics and alchemy are equally absurd because they're both asserting some crazy thing about reality that doesn't match what we think we know about reality. Sometimes what is perfectly rational is more rational than what our notions of rationality can deal with.

And, then again, sometimes what sounds absurd and silly is simply absurd and silly.

All this to say, there's a spectrum of rationality among the absurdity.

jr565 said...

IN regards to the golden suicide link that crack linked to, I don't see how Beck has any explaining to do.
The two lovers seemed to become paranoid and delusional. In addition to thinking that the scientologists were out to get them they also believed that there was a right wing invasion of hollywood:

Meanwhile, Hollywood, Blake said, was “under a pathetic right-wing invasion” by the Bush administration and “extremist religious groups.” He mentioned a couple of media companies with obvious Republican leanings. And then he said, “They are even running ads on the Cartoon Network recruiting people to be in the CIA!”
The anti cultists supposedly seeing conspiracies against them everywhere. Meanwhile Beck sounds perfectly reasonable despite being in a cult. (he couldn't do the movie because he was busy with an album a tour and a new baby). YOu'd think someone so delusional as to be in a cult wouldnt at the same time be so productive and ordinary.

Meanwhile THeresa Duncan, even before becoming convinced that the scientologists were out to scrap her movie deal was already, shall we say, excentric.
Her conversations were always racing with ruminations about “film, philology, Vietnam War memorabilia, rare and discontinued perfume”—listed on her blog as “Interests”—and facts about such obscure historical personages as “the owner of Napoleon’s penis” (a true story) and the “tiny Spanish bullfighter Manolete, who died so tragically in the ring in the 1940s.”
She strikes me as someone who was schizophrenic, and he does as well. Which is probalby why they saw eye to eye so well. BUt don't blame their suiceds on cultism. They were CRAZY and suffering from paranoid delusions.
Everything was a conspiracy to them. And not just scientologists, but right wing CIA plots. And 9/11 trutherism.
These two were steeped in conspiracies on top of conspiracies on top of conspiracies to the point where someone like Beck or Tom Cruise can look at them and say "what a bunch of fruitcakes" and be right about it.

Marshal said...

jr565 said...
Who said I'm anti religious?


You did, with your instinctive attack on it and lumping all religion in with Scientology.

You might think Tom Cruises belief in aliens is crazy, he might think your belief in Jesus is crazy.

First, what makes you think I believe in Jesus? Second, your inability to distinguish between differing levels of possibility is sloppy thinking. Maybe the bible wasn't meant to be literal. Maybe parts were mistranslated either in its inspiration or along its 2000 year history. There are many possibilities. But we know one guy, a wannabe science fiction writer, made up Scientology...about aliens.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

But how many people out there can play actual guitar well enough to play this music? Not Guitar Hero, but actual acoustic guitar, with strings and shit?

I probably can. I haven't seen his sheet music yet. Learned to read musical scores at the age of 9 and played the clarinet....BAND CAMP!!. Then picked up the guitar and started with classical and flamenco music, again reading notes, not tabulature (sp?) which seems to be the method now.

If you give me a score I can pick it out on the guitar. Rather rusty now and difficult to do for my old fingers....but somethings stick in your brain.

This is a very cool project. I'm interested to read the music and see what people do with it.

jr565 said...

Marshal wrote:
First, what makes you think I believe in Jesus? Second, your inability to distinguish between differing levels of possibility is sloppy thinking. Maybe the bible wasn't meant to be literal. Maybe parts were mistranslated either in its inspiration or along its 2000 year history. There are many possibilities. But we know one guy, a wannabe science fiction writer, made up Scientology...about aliens.


Differing levels of possibility? Is that like distinguishing between different types of feces?

And how do we know that Hubbard wasn't given a REVELATION about aliens as opposed to writing a work of fiction?

Lets say you were trying to convert someone who never heard of christianity OR scientology and said "those scientologists are bat shit crazy. THey believe in aliens!" and the convert turned to the christian and said "and what do you believe?" And he said "Oh, I believe in an immaculate conception, and JOnah being swallowed by a whale and jesus actually walking on water and healing people by touch alone, not to mention rising from the dead" why would the convert not view that as equally crazy?

Marshal said...

Lets say you were trying to convert someone who never heard of christianity

Or let's say we have a glorious and hard won tradition of religious tolerance in America that jerks like you are threatening.

Freeman Hunt said...

You jerks just had to tell us ignorants that Beck is a Scientologist.

It is almost always a mistake to find out about musicians. Ruins the music every time.

Freeman Hunt said...

This is made worse by the fact that I was just looking for some new music, and, after searching for a long time and listening to countless samples, I am beginning to wonder if it is possible to just not like any music. It's as though there's a limit to the number of songs one can like, and that limit seems for me to be very small and to have been reached. I can't find anything I like that's new.

And now some of you have gone and ruined Beck. Beck was relatively new... newer-ish. Sort of.

The Crack Emcee said...

Paddy O,

"But if you believe in a perfectly rational world, then all religions are silly and magical underpants are as absurd as the idea that Jesus died for our sins."

Assuming, of course, that all we have of various religions is a list of things that they believe, with no context or history or differentiation of evidence.

I keep making that point, but some want to keep *conveniently forgetting* I said it, to repeatedly accuse me of hypocrisy while advancing the argument all beliefs are the same - they're not:

When it comes to these modern "religions" (Mormonism, Scientology, the Raelians, the Moonies, etc.) we know who made them, where they made them, when they made them, and why they made them - which is always moolah.

No one can make that claim about ANY of the majors. We have no idea who made them, only a vague idea of where and when, and absolutely no clue why.

In other words - if we're honest and fair - we know enough, as atheists, to confidently say there's nothing about any of this phenomena to "believe" in. But, as skeptics, we only have the EVIDENCE to bury the cults.

Anyone who says otherwise is a sloppy thinker, merely dishonest, or both,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman Hunt,

I can't find anything I like that's new.

Tell me who you like now, from any era, and I'll gladly help you out.

A great alternative to Beck is The Beta Band.

They're no longer together, but they rarely made a bad song and sound kind of like Paul McCartney if he had kept up with musical trends.

HHere's a whole album.

Let me know what you think:

Making you happy would make me happy,...

jr565 said...

Marshal, I'm not the one arguing for religious intolerance here. You should read cracks Mormon discussions for examples of that.
Crack has been arguing against Romney BECAUSE of his religious beliefs, which he's compared to nazism. When it's pointed out that a lot of religions have beliefs that to outsiders look illogical. And yet most of us have a live and let live attitude about the various religions/ beliefs.
Just saying that someone (not me, but someone) might find some benefit from reflexology or acupuncture brands one as a believer and aplogist for cults.
I can live in a world where people are free to be scientologists . You frankly don't know what you're talking about and you're arguing with the wrong guy.

Marshal said...

jr565 said...
Marshal, I'm not the one arguing for religious intolerance here


You're showing it, not arguing in favor of it.

Crack has been arguing against Romney ... you're arguing with the wrong guy

Crack didn't respond to my comment, you did. It's a strange sort of logic to say I shouldn't reply to your reply, but
I guess you felt you had to grasp at straws since there was no other option.

I can live in a world where people are free to be scientologists

Did someone suggest we should make Scientology illegal?

You frankly don't know what you're talking about

Well on some level anything's possible. But given that everything you wrote in this comment was completely asinine it's not exactly the most likely conclusion is it?

Freeman Hunt said...

Thanks, Crack. Those were good.

Putting aside classical music for the moment, which is what I have almost entirely retreated into, maybe the problem is that I'm in a transition of taste. I find most things I liked years ago (Beck, The White Stripes, Duran Duran, The Strokes, Fiona Apple, etc.) earthbound and depressing. I like Hank Williams (the old one, obviously), Sam Cooke, Louis Armstrong, Patsy Cline, Bing Crosby and the like. Maybe I just need excellent vocalists who are singing something well-written. Also, I cannot abide anything that sounds nihilistic. The one new thing I know I like is Mumford and Sons.

Do your magic.

(Unless I am so very square that it cannot be done.)

jr565 said...

Marshall wrote:
Did someone suggest we should make Scientology illegal?

ask crack.
And marshal, you wrote:
jr565 said...
Marshal wrote:
So these geniuses pay millions to prove they're smarter / better than everyone else, but when Hubbard gets to the alien reveal they don't realize they've been scammed?

Ah, the ever-present anti-religion jerk. In fact Christians have a wide variety of interpretations. Far broader and nuanced than the those of the jerks.

but you will acknowledge that the CORE Christian beliefs to a non believer might strike one as much science fiction as a belief in aliens, correct? I know we all like topickon Tom cruise for believing in his kooky alien crap, but is any religious elief all that different to one that doesn't believe it?
You can tolerate Christians and Jews and Muslims and Quakers, and Mormons (though crack doesn't) even though they believe things that you don't. Why then is it someow wrong to similarly tolerate those who believe in the power of positive thinking, or new ageism, or astrology and not be an apologist for cults.
If Tom cruise believes in aliens, well in truth, a lot of people believe in UFO's and aliens. Can he still function as a member of societyA. Might you still hire him if you were making a movie and wanted someone who would give you box office?
I certainly wouldn't raise MY kid as a scientologist, but nor would I raise them as an orthodox Jew. If YOU wanted to arise your kids as a scientologist or an orthodox Jew, who am I to say otherwise?

jr565 said...

Marshal, again you're arguing with the wrong guy and you're wading into a conversation that has been ongoing for many posts, and therefore taking my point out of context.
Crack is on a crusade to villify Mormonism as some nefarious cult. He also is on a jihad to suggest that anything new age (as defined by him) is not only wrong but evil, and anyone who even makes the argument that vitamins might have some efficacy are apologists for cults and brainwashed.
The point about romney npmade over and over again, is that Mormons may believe in some things that others find crazy, but then again so do all other religions to those that don't believ them. Crack is mocking Mormons because they think Jesus will come back in the US, or appeared in the US, but Christians beliee that Jesus will come back as well. So then, why is Mormons belief something that makes them crazy, yet Christians believing the same thing absent eographic specificity is somehow not.
Crack is arguing against Mormonism, as an atheist. Yet he doesn't afford the same degree of contempt for Rick santorum, despite his Catholicism and despite the act that Christians believe that, for example, Jesus was born through an immaculate conception. Crack is arguing that simply because Romney is a Mormon that he is UNFIT to lead the country, BECAUSE Mormons are crazy and believe crazy things. And my point has been, Christians believe crazy things (to non believers) does that make them UNFIT to run the country? Because if so, then explain pretty much all of our past presidents, none of whom has been a self professed atheist. And if they are Christian, they have to believe whatever craziness Christians necessarily believe.
So, I am not being intolerant of religion, crack is. I'm simply trying to get from him why Mormonism is evil and culti, but Christianity isn't.

jr565 said...

Crack wrote:
No one can make that claim about ANY of the majors. We have no idea who made them, only a vague idea of where and when, and absolutely no clue why.

we know where islam came from. From Mohammad. And for all the talk about how Joseph smith was a charlatan a far larger case could be made that Mohammad was. And not only a brigand who robbed caravans, but an assassin who had his enemies slain, and a warrior who spread his religion by the sword.
The history of Islam is laid out in the hadiths very specifically. Shall we therefore invalidate it as one of the major religions and relabel it a cult?

jr565 said...

And marshal, just because you're dismissive of scientiology doesnt mean That you're not being intolerant of someone's religion. It might be baffling to you that someone can't see through such an obvious fraud, but in fact you are the one being intolerant of what others view as their religion.

Ben Calvin said...

I didn't see it pointed out in this thread yet. Beck is not a convert. He is a cradle Scientologist. His parents were in the church, and it was fairly indifferent to him until he became a "good earner." Then the church made a concerted effort to her him fully back in the fold.

Mike Bruner said...

You are loving the idea. But Beck hasn't written many (any?) great songs in the last 15 years. He might be right that other people can perform them better. While this is a cool idea, it's also pretty lame one too.

You might recall David Bowie extended his relevancy in the early 90's be releasing a bunch of junk larded up with multimedia CD-ROM throwaway. Perhaps Beck will be able to sell his publishing rights for a few hundred million after a youtube video goes viral.

pbAndjFellowRepublican said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pbAndjFellowRepublican said...

I never was a Beck fan.

But a few years ago I saw him at a multi-day thing a the Gorge in Wa. He put on a really great live show.

And, I really like: this.

jr565 said...

Beck had, so far, one very good album in him. Odelay is a great fusion of alt and white guy rap. One of the best thing about the album is it shows that the band Them has a lot of great riffs that can be used as samples. I actually heard odelay first, then came across a best of Them cd later and realized "aha, so that's where that came from"

Nichevo said...

Crack, do you know what's up with MC 900 Foot Jesus? Really dug his shit in college. Seems to have fallen off the face of the Earth.

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman Hunt,

I cannot abide anything that sounds nihilistic.

No, I wouldn't dare do that to you. But - after you put on your headphones - since you included The White Stripes, I will give you 39 Minutes Of Bliss (In An Otherwise Meaningless World) by Caesars - (I'm Gonna) Kick You Out is what I listen to when someone like jr565 gets on my nerves. (That kid knows nothing about me,…)

Next, since you mentioned Classical, let's go to Japan with Phillip Glass to hear Osamu's Theme. Like Donny & Marie, it's "a little bit Country and a little bit Rock 'N' Roll",…and a little bit different. It should shake you out of listening to conventional stuff enough that you can remember what you liked about discovering new music.

And since we're in Japan, let's eradicate that depression by getting silly with Fantastic Plastic Machine's Electric Lady Land. It's actually in Japanese, and might seem too '70s game show quirky at first, but stay with it until >2:00< before you decide if you like it or not. I betcha you'll be bobbin' your head like a kid discovering ice cream.

FPM can tend to tire a brother out, so how about a vacation? Well, "If you're fond of sand dunes and salty air / quaint little villages here and there," why not join Groove Armada At The River with a Corona or one of those fruity umbrella drinks? (God, I need one of those,…)

Let's see - singer songwriters. Since Ann and Meade just got back from seeing Bob Dylan, why not check out his buddy, Karen Dalton? She's gone now, and got a raw deal from the record industry (hers was a very sad story) but her first album was golden and A Little Bit Of Rain got me through my divorce, by giving me a comforting voice to wallow in misery with. I think you might like her, too.

I don't know if you like Moby, or Rave music, but even I can get all You're-My-Best-Friend NewAge-y with Timo Maas' Vocal Remix of We Are All Made Of Stars.

And since Moby's a weirdo vegetarian Christian (don't ask) I can't leave out his cover of Run On, because don't we all need to hear about how God's going to cut you down if you're bad? (The Five Blind Boys Of Alabama always thought so,…) And don't forget the freaky preachers - you've got to have the funky preachers in your collection if you're going to talk Real Religion™ with me.

And finally, I don't think any excursion into music is "right" unless it includes some LSD-inspired Jazz (or Grunge-inspired anyway) and, of course, everybody's got to have some pastel-flavored R&B, and a weather report done in Rap, or else they're not a true music lover, or human, or something.

Like my long lost wife, such people are dead to me,…

The Crack Emcee said...

Nichevo,

Crack, do you know what's up with MC 900 Foot Jesus? Really dug his shit in college. Seems to have fallen off the face of the Earth.

Haven't seen him since he was declaring Truth Is Out Of Style (He was ahead of his time with that one). His DJ and I were friends, back in my left-wing racial bomb-throwing days with Consolidated, but I haven't looked either of them up in over a decade.

I'll ask around (if any of my old "radical" friends will still speak to me) and get back to you,...

The Crack Emcee said...

If you guys don't want to click-through all those links (and who can blame you) I stuck them up over here, too,...

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Paco Wové said...

"No one can make that claim about ANY of the majors. We have no idea who made them, only a vague idea of where and when, and absolutely no clue why."

Sorry, I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Just because you don't know, or choose not to know, the history of the world's religions, that's not to say the information isn't out there. Especially for faiths created within the past 2 millennia -- Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Bahai'i, the LDS -- all had a specific founder or founders, and a reasonably well-documented history. They aren't just revealed texts our ancestors stumbled across one day. (Maybe the Hindus can make that argument, but no Western religion can.)

Freeman Hunt said...

Thank you, Crack! Looks like I've got some listening to do.

The Crack Emcee said...

Paco Wové,

Sorry, I'm pretty sure this is bullshit.

Proof, Paco, not your claim it's bullshit - proof.

Freeman Hunt,

Thank you, Crack!

You're more than welcome.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

jr565,

[summarizing what "Christians" believe:] "Oh, I believe in an immaculate conception, and Jonah being swallowed by a whale and Jesus actually walking on water and healing people by touch alone, not to mention rising from the dead"

Unless your Christian is a Catholic, it's unlikely that s/he believes in the Immaculate Conception. The phrase doesn't mean what you probably think it does.

EMD said...

Beck had, so far, one very good album in him. Odelay is a great fusion of alt and white guy rap.

Midnite Vultures is epic.

jr565 said...

Michael Dulak wrote:
Unless your Christian is a Catholic, it's unlikely that s/he believes in the Immaculate Conception. The phrase doesn't mean what you probably think it does.

We do have a lot of catholics in this country who do believe it. And that brings up a point that ties into our discussion with Crack. Lets assume that MOST christians don't believe in an immaculate conception, but catholics do. That would be a belief not shared by all christians, which might make catholics the kooky christians who believe in an immaculate conception (and who get their marching orders from the pope). Is that all that different than a mormon believing something that other christians don't? Is the immaculate conception belief crazier than the Mormon belief, both of which diverge from common christian belief? Would you invalidate say JFK from serving as president because he's part of some wacky version of Christianity that believes in something as crazy as an immaculate conception?
If you look back at catholics running for president you'll find some of the exact arguments made agaisnt them that Crack is making against mormons.
Including warnings "that national autonomy would be threatened because Smith (presidential candidate running in 1928) would be listening not to the American people but to secret orders from the pope. There were rumors the pope would move to the United States to control his new realm."

That's right out of Crack's playbook and he in fact almost made the EXACT same argument about Romney's mormonism.

Nichevo said...

Thanks Crack, pls lmk.