October 26, 2012

"At worst, this is someone who has sexual fantasies...There is no actual crossing the line from fantasy to reality."

Says the lawyer for Gilberto Valle, the NY police officer arrested for kidnapping conspiracy. He "created a document on his computer, calling it a blueprint for 'Abducting and Cooking.'"
“I was thinking of tying her body onto some kind of apparatus,” he wrote to a co-conspirator in one electronic communication recovered by law enforcement authorities. “Cook her over a low heat, keep her alive as long as possible.”

When the co-conspirator asked how big the officer’s oven was, Officer Valle replied, “Big enough to fit one of these girls if I folded their legs.”

82 comments:

Andy R. said...

I was totally not surprised when I heard this guy was a cop.

bagoh20 said...

You got to be one screwed up dude to think this is the optimal thing to do with a naked girl.

Anyway, what's the prefered method: stuffing in the bird or cooked separately?

Cedarford said...

Ah, fantasy and reality defense.
Yeah, tell it to a cop who is caught with fantasy child porn material on his computer.

This guy's career is toast.

chickelit said...

This guy's career is toast.

Better this guy's career is toast than some girl's rear is toast.

Marshal said...

A fantasy of cooking someone alive? How do people come up with this shit?

Patrick said...

More cannibalism on this blog than I would have figured. I checked the tag, and there are quite a few, although some only tangentially related.

MB said...

Was he pick up by the Dream Police? Or was that a Cheap Trick?

traditionalguy said...

This guy could work for North Korea's Kim Jong-un devising better ways to execute rude Army officers.

The 80mm mortar shell dropping on the head sounds creative but is not half as artistic as this guy.

Nonapod said...

Pretty scary, especially from a cop. He went as far as conducting surveillance on women. Was it a question of it being only a matter of time?

bagoh20 said...

"How do people come up with this shit?"

Tradition:
Burning at the stake
Brazen Bull (my favorite)

Back in the day it was the authorities who did all the cooking. Now a little discussion of freelancing, and they come down on you.

Baron Zemo said...

Hey did anybody check Obama's authobiography to see if he ever....nevermind that would be racist.

Stick with the dog story. Yeah that's the ticket.

Malta1565 said...

Nom Nom Nom

tiger said...

I normally think there is a broad line between 'thinking' and 'doing' except in cases such as this.

When a person starts outlining exactly how they would carry out an act - whether it be this, setting off a bomb or robbing a bank - it goes toward intent and makes me think they did to be arrested asap.

EDH said...

Gilberto Valle.

With that name he'd fit in with a show on the Food Network.

Ron said...

Really, I doubt he could find a good free range girl in Manhattan....there's gotta be some kinda additives there.

Baron Zemo said...

Now you want some sick shit about killing and having sex and cooking stuff you should get Garage Mahal talking about road kill!

Baron Zemo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pastafarian said...

Andy R: "I was totally not surprised when I heard this guy was a cop."

I was totally not surprised that you'd leave such a comment; except:

When were you not surprised, exactly? I mean, didn't you hear that he was a cop at the same time that you heard that he fantasized about cannibalism? The headline are "Officer Plotted..." or "NYPD Cannibal..."

So you were totally not surprised by the fact, after you'd been made aware of it? Dur, Andy. Dur.

By the way, I was totally not surprised to hear that he's a union member (FOP). And I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's a Democrat (since he's a NYC public employee, that would have a 90% probability, or as Nate Silver would say, 90.439295222%).

Roger J. said...

Jesus God--this is fucking icomprehensible. This MF is a commissioned officer wearing a weapon? What the fuck.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Is there room in that oven for Hansel too?

Astro said...

When the co-conspirator asked how big the officer’s oven was, Officer Valle replied, “Big enough to fit one of these girls if I folded their legs.”

God, that's awful. It should be “Big enough to fit one of these girls if I folded her legs.”

(Sorry,... sick humor.)

Andy R. said...

Jesus God--this is fucking icomprehensible. This MF is a commissioned officer wearing a weapon? What the fuck

The relationship between cops and sadists is a chicken and egg thing. Does the job seem more appealing to people with anger and other issues, or does it just cultivate those kinds of problems within the people that join?

Probably a little of both.

Methadras said...

The level of detail that the NYT gives to this story vs. oh I don't know, Benghazi for example, is a little staggering.

Carol said...

Err, it's actually considered a good and desirable job by a lot o people. Pensions, and stuff.

Methadras said...

I can haz free range girl?

EDH said...

"One-Adam 12, requesting Code 7."

edutcher said...

Dahmer, Gacy... you put this guy away where the criminals mete out the justice.

PS Hatman has a gripe against cops from all the nightsticks he's taken to the head Occupying someplace.

As Super Chicken once observed, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred".

Pastafarian said...

Andy R, I guess you must be a big proponent of the armed citizen taking an active role in his self-defense, then...rather than relying on dialing 911 to be left at the hands of sadists.

Right?

Clyde said...

Unrelated breaking news: Senator Harry Reid hospitalized after motorcade crash in Las Vegas

It's too bad that whatever injured him didn't hit him in the wallet; as well-padded as it is after his Senate career, he wouldn't have been hurt at all!

Darrell said...

Ann Coulter, a long time ago, once linked to some of the websites that had sprung up featuring violent rape/kill fantasies about her. Chain-saw raping. Inserting spit through her vagina/anus that came out her mouth and slowly roasting her alive. The usual. Fully illustrated.

I suspect that no one in those cases was ever questioned, much less arrested and charged with any crimes. So what is different here?

rhhardin said...

As Armstrong and Getty said after some recent uncomsummated doom scare, "I fear I may have resorted to cannibalism a little early."

Andy R. said...

Andy R, I guess you must be a big proponent of the armed citizen taking an active role in his self-defense, then...rather than relying on dialing 911 to be left at the hands of sadists.

Right?


I think people should be allowed to own guns, if that's what you're asking.

Andy R. said...

If you were asking if I think people with guns should randomly shoot people who aren't a threat to them, no.

David said...

Very strange.

Though calling the email recipient a co-conspirator in the article kind of decides the case against him, doesn't it?

Suppose he just writes this on his computer and never communicates it to anyone? Is that a crime?

(Law school thinking never goes away, even after over 40 years.)

Freeman Hunt said...

This is so vile that I don't know what to type.

Emil Blatz said...

I know I'm asking what everyone is thinking about on the Korean deal...how close did the 80mm mortar come to landing on his head?

As to the guy in NY, thanks for taking the heat off of us in FL. We've had a really concentrated run of bad publicity about residents of this state. It was time for folks from another state to step up and take the abuse off FL, and we appreciate your efforts.

tiger said...

Andy R. said...

The relationship between cops and sadists is a chicken and egg thing. Does the job seem more appealing to people with anger and other issues, or does it just cultivate those kinds of problems within the people that join?

Probably a little of both.


Considering you're not Mahal, Titus or that Lyn(sp?) chick this is the stupidest thing I've read here.

AF said...

"At worst, this is someone who has sexual fantasies...There is no actual crossing the line from fantasy to reality."

A fair point, but a rather unfortunate use of the phrase "At worst."

wyo sis said...

That this sick fantasy is considered to be a sexual fantasy confuses me. What is sexual about it?

Lem said...

Books detail all kinds of murder all the time.

What is different about this?

Where is the beef?

Dr Weevil said...

Not to defend this guy in any way, but if he turns out to have a normal-sized stove that would be nowhere near large enough to fit an adult human, that would tend to support his excuse, wouldn't it? If so, can the police fire him just for being a sick sick perv with disgusting but physically impossible fantasies? I certainly hope so.

Peter said...

Yesterday there were two major crime stories out of New York. The one with Gilberto Valle wanting to eat women is funny, in a twisted sense.

This one is not funny in the least.

James Pawlak said...

And only cops should have guns? At least according to NY Mayor Bloomberg and Milwaukee's Mayor what's his face.

Andy R. said...

The relationship between cops and sadists is a chicken and egg thing. Does the job seem more appealing to people with anger and other issues, or does it just cultivate those kinds of problems within the people that join?

Probably a little of both.


Considering you're not Mahal, Titus or that Lyn(sp?) chick this is the stupidest thing I've read here.


Police domestic violence nearly twice average rate
Law enforcement officers beat their wives or girlfriends at nearly double the rate of the rest of the population, and trying to control that is not only difficult for the victims but potentially deadly, experts say.
...
Several studies, according to Gandy and Wetendorf, indicate that women suffer domestic abuse in at least 40 percent of police officer families. For American women overall, the figure is 25 percent, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"There are a lot of good cops who go into the work for the right reasons, to help people," Wetendorf said. "But then you have these others who are more interested in the authority, in the badge and the gun."


Did people not know about this kind of behavior from police?

Eustace Chilke said...

The worst thing he seems to have done is to use the National Crime Information Center to learn information about a woman and to possibly have stalked a woman using his patrol car. These on duty activities require his firing and are likely criminal as well, not that on duty cops are ever held to such standards typically.

The rest of it sounds like thought crime to me. Vile and repellent thoughts, but just thoughts. Depending who you are and who you are fantasizing about in this country, you might attract no notice at all with such thoughts. The files on the hundred women are disturbing but the article doesn't say that they're criminal. Maybe they're just evidence in support of conspiracy charges.

Conspiracy charges are where prosecutors stuff in all their thinnest bullshit. Anyone at all can likely be charged with conspiracy at any time. Prosecutors boast of this power. The players on all sides here, apart from the women, give me the creeps.

Revenant said...

I'm reserving judgment on whether this guy committed, or even intended to commit, a crime. He sounds like a really creepy guy, but that's not illegal.

The prosecution's side of the story certain makes him sound guilty of conspiracy, but given that prosecutions routinely lie I can't trust that information.

Methadras said...

Andy R. said...

The relationship between cops and sadists is a chicken and egg thing. Does the job seem more appealing to people with anger and other issues, or does it just cultivate those kinds of problems within the people that join?

Probably a little of both.


Look, people put their cocks in your ass and in your mouth. What's your point with this fabulous nonsequitor.

Baron Zemo said...

I recently finished Pete Townshends
memoir "Who I Am" and I am confident that this guy was just doing research on the internet.

Happens all the time.

Shana said...

I'm gonna agree with Andy R for once. A girl I went to high school with was shot by her cop husband who had been beating her. It was ruled a suicide, but everyone knew the truth. Our small town cops are way too eager to get in high speed chases and pull their guns on people. I worry about my teenagers. I worry about cops and sickos who want to slow roast them or whatever. Kyrie eleison.

Bruce Hayden said...

The rest of it sounds like thought crime to me. Vile and repellent thoughts, but just thoughts.

Agreed. Conspiracy typically requires a bit more than talking about some potential crime in the future. Was there any evidence that he, or any of the people with whom he was talking, were seriously going to commit any of these acts? Or, was it just talk talk, like all that aimed at Ann Coulter?

Conspiracy is much easier to prove if you have an underlying crime - such as a robbery, rape, murder, etc., or at least a credible, prosecutable attempt at such.

I think that maybe the problem will be to prove the mens rea of the alleged conspiracy (i.e. the intent). Did he truly intend to commit the kidnap/rape/murder, or was he just talking about it? Burden will be on the state (feds here) to prove that intent beyond a reasonable doubt.

Dante said...

AndyR:

Agree with your point. Same thing could be said about pedophile priests, school teachers, especially coaches, etc.

Now, I'll say something that's going to really upset people. Bizarro sexual appetites are pretty normal for men. Puberty is like a massive lake in some mountain eventually breaking through. Small things can change the course of the resultant river, and strange obsessions can develop (like fetishes).

I would not be surprised if all the sexual stuff on the internet produces some massively screwed up twenties something men 5 - 10 years from now. It won't be there fault, anymore than some jihadist kid who gets brainwashed into suicide bombing is responsible.

Like maybe a kid will read about that guy who died from the horse up in Washington, and get into bestiality, etc.

And the solutions aren't that great either. At least with the jihadists you can put them down with a clear conscious.

kentuckyliz said...

A much better way to accomplish this would be to rig a hot tub up special, like a slow cooker. Seduce a chick and bring her home. Dose her drinkipoo with some paralytic drugs. She won't be able to move, but she will be conscious and feel pain.

Then step out of the hot tub and turn up the heat.

Start the fava beans and open up the Chianti.

kentuckyliz said...

Smells like fish, tastes like chicken

^ I want a T shirt that says that.

Inspired by "Eat Salmon, the Other Pink Meat"

Revenant said...

And the solutions aren't that great either.

The solution to a person with bizarre sexual fetishes couldn't be easier: don't have sex with them.

As for the internet leading to a surge in the number of sickos -- meh. It has been over fifteen years since the internet gave everyone access to photos and videos of every imaginable kink, and the per-capita sex crime rate has dropped like a rock. The empirical evidence suggests that the internet gives sickos a safe outlet, not that it creates new sickos.

Saint Croix said...

If it's a "conspiracy" they ought to be arresting more than one person.

kentuckyliz said...

Date rule: always check a guy's fridge for a huge bowl of mirepoix, cut up and ready to go.

Ann Althouse said...

"Ah, fantasy and reality defense. Yeah, tell it to a cop who is caught with fantasy child porn material on his computer."

If you have child porn, you are contributing to a market in which children are exploited to make porn. That is different. If you are writing crazy sexual things, it's another matter.

Now, this guy did (allegedly) do some things involving interacting with other people about kidnappings and making some physical moves toward those women, which really does fit the charge: conspiracy to kidnap.

The crazy talk about cooking people is beside the point if that's the charge.

Geoff Matthews said...

I'd be okay with putting him down, even if it is a fantasy.
People with this type of fantasy should be dealt with a quickly, and permanently, as possible.

Sam L. said...

Toast? His union will get this down to a fresh loaf of white bread. In the freezer.

MaxedOutMama said...

Well, Breivik (the Norway massacre guy) had a fantasy too.

Once someone starts the first outward acts involved in the fantasy (in this cop's case, the surveillance of the women), it's surely no longer a fantasy?

Regardless, a person who has fantasies of kidnapping people and cooking them alive should not be a police officer.

Saint Croix said...

You can access the criminal complaint here.

He was participating on an internet chat room for S&M types.

I read that transcript, it's obviously a silly fantasy.

"Victim 1" is a woman he was supposed to kidnap, cook and eat with "co-conspirator 1" in July. Instead he went out on a lunch date with her.

"Victim 2" he was supposed to kidnap and sell to co-conspirator 2 so the co-conspirator could rape her. Instead he called her on the phone.

If these are actual crimes being planned, why not indict the co-conspirators? The failure to indict them strongly suggests nobody believes this was an actual crime being planned.

He should be fired, maybe, for using the police database to find dates.

I don't even see probable cause here. Probable cause for what, the cannibal cooking in July or the white slave trade in February? It's probable cause for a little black book and a wacky fantasy life.

ALP said...

Bizarro sexual appetites are pretty normal for men.
*********
Reminds me of a line in "Seinfeld" where Jerry says to Elaine: "If you women could read men's minds, you'd never stop slapping us."

Pogo said...

The tyranny of appetites, where indulging one's whims, rejecting shame's warning, drags one deeper and deeprer into evil.

The horrible and grotesque, once studied for enjoyment, become a prison. His toy is a dangerous beast; it will come to control him. I believe it already has.

Saint Croix said...

His toy is a dangerous beast; it will come to control him. I believe it already has.

We don't actually punish people for being controlled by Satan. (Or your secular equivalent).

I don't want to hear that he's a bad speaker or has a bad mind. I scoff that you or anybody knows what evil lurks in the heart of men.

What I expect to see in a criminal prosecution is a factual basis for the crime. He's charged with conspiring to kidnap a woman. Who? When? What actions did he do to put this conspiracy into motion? Who are his co-conspirators?

What we have is a bunch of lurid and over-the-top fantasy stuff from several months ago. And "cannibal cop" headlines.

I agree that horror porn--or porn porn--can be bad for people, spiritually bad. But it's not the government's place to make that judgment.

Pogo said...

I am not speaking of the law.

He's descended into evil, and it's destroying him, even if he never commits a crime.

Pogo said...

Modern US culture rejects shame, and in its place there's but license.

And so here we are.

Revenant said...

Modern US culture rejects shame, and in its place there's but license.

Well, no. Modern US culture has replaced shame with imprisonment by the state.

Pogo said...

There is no God but the State.

Saint Croix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
exiledonmainst said...

"Bizarro sexual appetites are pretty normal for men."

So -fantasizing about raping, torturing, and roasting a woman alive, and then eating her - that's "pretty normal." No different, really, from a guy imagining himself with 6 Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and a can of Readi-Whip.

My reaction to this story was the same as Freeman's. It's incredibly depraved and evil.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

It does not get much creepier than that. Dude whose head works that way needs help, and seriously needs to be well away from law enforcement.

Revenant said...

My reaction to this story was the same as Freeman's. It's incredibly depraved and evil.

I'd want to know how serious the guy was about this stuff because I said something like that.

I mean, hell, I once had a conversation with a friend about how the Columbine kids could have killed a lot more people if they'd used better tactics. If someone had taken it seriously -- instead of in the black-humor sense it was meant -- they'd probably have thought I was some kind of psychotic serial-killer-in-training or something.

Ralph L said...

“Big enough to fit one of these girls if I folded their legs.”
If you don't use correct grammar, you'll end up a cannibal.

Saint Croix said...

Dude whose head works that way needs help, and seriously needs to be well away from law enforcement.

You know, to be in law enforcement, you are given a psychological test. They do a pretty good job of weeding out nutcases.

I don't watch Saw type movies. To me it's sick, not a lot of fun. But there are millions of people who watch what I would call horror porn.

I knew a woman in film school who loved that stuff. Horror was her favorite genre, by far. And she was into S&M, too, I think.

I don't think any of that stuff is healthy. But she's healthy. If you gave her a psychological test, she would pass it.

Zach said...

The novel Shogun, by James Clavell, features a man getting slowly boiled alive as a major plot point. Several characters hear the screaming, and it affects their motivations, etc.

It pissed me off so badly, I couldn't finish the book.

Saint Croix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Croix said...

I'd be okay with putting him down, even if it is a fantasy. People with this type of fantasy should be dealt with a quickly, and permanently, as possible.

This speech is itself a violent fantasy.

Has nobody noticed that there is violent speech/fantasy on Althouse, just about every day?

I hope - with all of my heart - that you die. Very soon and in abject agony.

The Valle speech is a funnier, weirder, and more off-putting expression of violent fantasy. And it's sex-specific against women. But if we're going to start punishing people for bad things they said on the internet, I'm going to be up to my ass in Althouse-related subpoenas from the FBI.

Lonetown said...

de Sade lives!

Saint Croix said...

It's interesting to click on the New York Police Department tag at the NYT.

Do you notice anything about that coverage?

Largo said...


"""Geoff Matthews said...

I'd be okay with putting him down, even if it is a fantasy.
People with this type of fantasy should be dealt with a quickly, and permanently, as possible."""

It's all good with me Geoff, so long as its fine for me to willingly vote wuth twelve others to put down anyone who would actually execute another person for a thought crime.

You cool with that?

Largo said...

@kentuckyliz

Have I told you lately that I love you?

:)

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