7:38 Central Time: For some reason, I feel as though I'm not going to have anything to say. But I'm going to try to watch like a normal person, let it flow over me as if I didn't need to write about everything, and I'll see what happens. Please converse in the comments. And I'll do updates here if the spirit moves me.
7:43: Now, my son John is a fabulous live-blogger, and he's set up to go.
7:50: In the practice debates, Obama had John Kerry pretending to be Mitt Romney, and Romney had Rob Portman pretending to be Barack Obama. I've got to think Romney had the better practice partner. Why would Kerry be any good at that?
8:05: The candidates come out and shake hands. Meade: "Romney's taller." Me: "Romney has a bigger head."
8:06: Obama appropriately makes a statement about his wife. It's their 20th anniversary.
8:08: Romney says: "I'm sure this is the most romantic place you can imagine: here with me."
8:10: In the opening speeches, Romney had a great line about Obama thinking "trickle-down government" would work. "I'll restore the vitality that gets America working again." Meade says Romney won the opening statements: "Obama talked about himself and his job. Romney talked about us and our jobs."
8:13: Obama is talking up tax cuts for the rich!
8:23: "Donald Trump doesn't like to think of himself as small anything," says Obama.
8:26: Romney's going on about lowering taxes, and Obama looks irritated.
8:29: Jim Lehrer is getting the vapors. He seems very old, weak, and small. Romney seems to have a plan to dominate him.
8:41: Obama has a plan to flash his winning smile, but he just flashed it when Romney brought up Solyndra and said "You pick the losers."
8:43: Lehrer only interrupts Romney (it seems to me). "Let's go," he mutters gruffly.
8:53: How long is this debate? Is this 2 hours? Is anyone still watching?
8:55: Lehrer interrupts Obama. He's struggling to get some control. He seems desperate.
9:16: They're not really attacking each other. Just rolling out policies, pretty wonkily, and distinguishing theirs from the other guy's.
9:17: Do they differ on "how they view the role of the federal government?" Lehrer asks with dismaying generality.
9:19: Obama invokes Lincoln. Lincoln thought the government should do some things, and Obama tries to be like Lincoln.
9:20: Romney loves great schools and great teachers. But the question is what's the role of the federal government. "We're all children of the same God." We have the "right to pursue our own dreams" as "free people."
9:36: Obama's closing statement sounds like platitudes. I'm surprised he has nothing vivid to say. Romney goes second.
9:39: Lots of hanging out on stage... together. Could it be that they like each other?
10:29: Everyone seems to be saying that Obama lost by a lot. I blame John Kerry. I'll bet he was a terrible practice partner.
October 3, 2012
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
780 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 780 Newer› Newest»LOL, Oil company corporate welfare to teachers having kids sit on the ground and getting rid of a whole bunch of stuff. WHAT A MORON!!! THIS GUY IS A FUCKING IDIOT!!!
Pasta...many don't organize as corporations. So if the value of their business appreciates in a year, they are hit with a huge tax increase. How are they going to pay for the birth control pills of their employees with this tax rate?
Romney is in a debate.
President Obama is on stage without a teleprompter.
Pretty easy to tell the difference.
It's amazing. Obama is running as if he is the challenger. He's promising the same things as four years ago, with no recognition that he has been in charge. Hard to appreciate just how disconnected from reality he is.
Discussion is getting overly wonky on both sides.
Most people must be losing interest.
Budgets reflect choices!!!??? How the hell would Obama know--his party hasn't produced one in THREE YEARS even tho it's required by the Constitution! Romney should JUMP on that!
Someone should compare the time that each man is taking. Obama is taking twice as much time.
Romney is doing a good job of controlling Leaher.
Gould didn't strike me as good as this guy. Gould left them pretty much as I had remembered them as a kid.
Oh, Schiff. I have a recording of him playing them.
The problem with Gould's rendition of them is that I don't think he really liked them much, and when he recorded something he didn't like (Mozart's piano sonatas) the results were unpredictable- either static or mean-spirited.
I like Schiff but he always does all the repeats in everything he plays. Someone gave me a recording of him playing Schubert piano trios and the last movement of one is about 10 minutes longer than any other recording I've heard and completely intolerable.
Text books is the equivalent of firemen's and teachers.. roads and bridges.
Inga said...
John, is he the big bad black man?
Please, more bigoted, simpleton attacks. You are beyond pathetic. You offer zero to the conversation. Less than zero actually. What happened? Did you lose Bag's balls somewhere?
I am starting to see an Obama who has never been challenged in an open and free discussion before.
Tonight is why I opposed McCain 4 years ago.
Obama is taking twice as much time.
He deserves more time! He's AWESOME!
Romney: Tax cuts. Tax cuts. Tax cuts.
Bush redux.
How would the U.S. stop corporations from moving jobs overseas?
Not within the purview of the President.
Solyndra. Boom, shot to the scrotum.
Lehrer, jump in there and cut him off quick. Attaboy.
Lehrer trying to cut romney off from directly attacking Urkel.
"Meade: "Romney's taller." Me: "Romney has a bigger head
Yes, for the big head theory! It's true, it works. However, I don't have a dog in this hunt so my interest in the outcome is more about the science of the head.
If that isn't an empty suit standing up there playing president, I don't know what is.
For Romney, it's taking candy from a baby.
Romney has impressed me. I wasn't expecting this at all. Wish he wouldn't have mentioned Tommy tho...
Mommy, WHERE IS JOHN MCCAIN?
Romney sez: Federalism is good. Yay.
TmjUtah said...
Romney is in a debate.
President Obama is on stage without a teleprompter.
Pretty easy to tell the difference.
/thread
Two minutes, mr president.
Lehrer trying to cut romney off from directly attacking Urkel.
That's President Barack H. Obama to you, you bigoted wingnut.
C'mon Romney fans, admit that Obama is a formidable foe.
I'm probably more in favor of Romney, but I can see that Obama is a tough foe.
typical white death
Neither of these guys has any plan to deal with the high deficits. The debt will continue to explode.
Oh, here comes the grandmother crybaby bullshit that he threw under the bus.
OMG, Obama's channeling Reagan and Tip O'Neil.
Is Clinton now under the bus?
Also, thanks for eliminating the word check thingy. I'm sure it's a hassle for you, but it's sure nice for us.
Mitt seems more accessible. His choice of words is less dense, less technical. Obama is wonkish. This is the opposite of what I anticipated.
Obama has always been very wonky. He's a lawprof for God's sake. I don't think you can be a successful businessman like Romney and be too wonky -- people who work for you will call you on it.
Small business S corp here. My health insurance has gone up 50% since BambiCare was enacted.
Just love Urkel (and you add Trader John Roberts to the list).
No fighting Methadras. There's enough for both you girls.
Romney is intellectually dishonest about the deficits. He can't claim he care about the deficits with a straight face and then want to lower tax revenue AND radically increase military spending AND not touch Medicare.
Of course Obama is full of shit too.
Why is he talking about his racist grandmother..the lilly white bank president?
Urkel not making sense again. AGAIN!!!
OMG!!!!!
His Grandmother was a BANK EXECUTIVE!!!!! She didn't save anything for retirement? He and Michelle were making at least 300K before he was pres...he couldn't throw her a grand here and there?
I guess she spent too much on private school for his Choomness.
Up to three minutes so far, no interruption.
How many Medicare providers would agree that they've been overpaid?
Romneys exasperation could be interpreted as a sign that he knows how bad and how desperate the economy is.
Obama - Social Security is structurally sound. What a tool.
Also Romney should have proposed to not increase tax rates on anyone making less than $500K a year. That would have insulated him from Obama's attacks.
Has Obama given the finger yet?
Oh, how ugly of me. I've brought this up twice tonight.
Alex said...
Romney is intellectually dishonest about the deficits. He can't claim he care about the deficits with a straight face and then want to lower tax revenue AND radically increase military spending AND not touch Medicare.
Exactly.
bagoh20 said...
No fighting Methadras. There's enough for both you girls.
Oh please go eat a dick. The one that Inga bolts on for you. You're a fucking chump. Shut the fuck up, pussy.
Let's face it, neither candidate wants to tell the unvarnished truth about the economy, the debt or foreign policy. The American people want to continue hearing fantasies about how it's all going to be alright. We get the leaders we deserve.
Romney is going easy on Obama so far.
"Oh I just thought of one!" LOL. Well Romney's not going to get an award for Best Acting in this category. That was pretty cheesy!
Romney complains that Obama wants to cut medical costs. What an ass. This is exactly what we should be doing.
716 billion cut from Medicare.
He just gutted Obama right there on the stage.
Poor medicare vs ocare response by Mittens - waste of time.
@Alex you have a point.
So Obama doesn't even pretend to care about the $16 trillion debt, is that better than Romney's dishonesty? I guess the American people really do not give a flying FUCK about it!
Yes, reasonable man, we can just cut costs by fiat. That's how the world works.
Romney scores with the old folks by noting that Obama is actually cutting rates paid to doctors, with the result that doctors are refusing Medicare patients.
Obama counters with accusation that Romney favors vouchers.
I agree on deficits. Although Mitt and Ryan have an understanding of the coming collapse, neither Obama nor Romney are offering true solutions.
The real solution involves painful cuts and tax increases. Especially cuts, though.
New format proposal:
No moderator, rather the sound guy just alternates their mics on/off every three minutes. No need for subjects or topics, just let 'em go back 'n' forth on whatever.
And anyone who is on the ballot in enough states for a mathematically possible electoral win should be allowed on that stage.
Obama lulls people to sleep.
ORomney Care
Of course Romney is playing intellectually dishonest games by going after Obama on cutting medical costs. We have NO choice but to do that in order to reign in the deficit. But Romney is desperately triangulating.
Methadras - don't be so mean to Inga. She's doing the best she can with so little to work with.
I think mccullough @8:41 has figured both candidates out.
News flash Urkel, you're grandma is dead. Like from four years ago? Derp.
Romney is pandering to the oldest voters over medicare. These are the people who helped run up the debt in the first place. Why the fuck shouldn't they also contribute to reducing government costs?
God's truth! Obama agrees with AARP!
Yeah, Obama's just the sort of rich guy who would leave his grandmother at the mercy of private insurance companies.
Aarp, one of Obama's corporate patrons, supports his plan. Shocking.
This is a nice safe place for you to act big, Meth. Very impressive. At least you're not picking on a female for a change.
I am waiting for Jim L. to start passing notes to Obama, he helped him for the third time. It is pathetic.
Well O's medicare vs ocare return was just as weak. So that's a wash.
Alex - Romney wants to cut tax rates. He never said he wants to decrease revenue to the government. Tax rate cuts have very reliably increased tax revenue whenever implemented (Kennedy, Reagan, Bush).
716 BILION FROM MEDICARE TO PAY FOR OBAMACARE!
Of course Obama doesn't really give a shit about any of it, he just wants to be re-elected and continue being the Golfer in Chief and attending swanky parties. Why can't he just admit it? We know he doesn't give a fuck.
Both candidates are ignoring the reality for old folks... they buy a supplemental policy in addition to Medicare.
Obama cutting payments to Medicare providers means even fewer providers than we have now. Patently obvious. That's how markets work.
Tiga - just because the Laffer Curve worked in the past doesn't mean it will work in the future. Also tax rates are currently at a point where the Laffer Curve does not predict increased revenues. Romney is only pushing for extending the Bush tax cuts because it's popular to do so.
To mention the private sector to Obama is to call him a righwinger.
The reality is if you tell seniors the real truth - political suicide. So pander, pander, pander.
bagoh20 said...
At least you're not picking on a female for a change.
Why? Did your vagina finally grow a penis from it?
Yes, lower cost of healthcare, he doesn't want to talk about it.
Lehrer is terrible.
I can also see why the President was afraid to go on Fox.
If anyone has worked in both private business and gov't, you will know that the gov't can never offer a service for less than real world can. Gov't is inffecient and wasteful.
Obama returns to the vouchers accusation.
Don't know if that's really Romney's plan.
Oh boy - sorta sad to see Lerher is such a bad way.
I don't want to shock anyone, but doctors in my area won't take additional patients already because they loose money on them. Cut the payments and they will dump patients.
Of course Obama doesn't want to say the word "ration".
Allie - do you even give a fuck about the economy or debt? Or is this all about scoreboard for you?
Wait. Obama is black! This show is racist.
A Reasonable Man: Kill the old!
Wet kiss.
Bagoh, don't waste your time away from the debate on Meth head, he's not worth the energy.
Alex - keep in mind, the Laffer curve always "works" and always bends the same way. It does NOT, however show that tax cuts "pay for themselves." They usually don't, which is why we also need cuts in spending. But Arthur Laffer was right, and no serious economists dispute this.
Romney tells the truth about Dodd/Frank.
It isn't regulation. It's a gift to the grifters who pulled off the 2008 banking scam.
Tyrone Slothrop said...
Obama cutting payments to Medicare providers means even fewer providers than we have now.
Patently not true. We can always bring new MDs into the system who are willing to work for less.
Hey Alex, get off the friggin fence!
The bwhole bit about "paying" for tax-cuts is TOTALLY bogus. Such a belief assumes a static analysis which assumes that people don't react to incintives and won't change their work habits if tax rates are changed. Rather dynamic scoring reflects reality. Historically, EVERY TIME marginal tax rates have been lowered across the board revenues to the Fed Treasury have INCREASED! Romney errors in not making that point. "Tax-Cuts" pay for themselves--you can look it up, as the saying goes..
Wow, lehrer cut mitt off hard. Let's see him do that to Obama.
I know a guy who is a CFO of a smaller hospital. He said Obama care is an accountablitly hassle, as it has huge cost controls. I have no problem with this.
He also said that they have ceilings on reimubursment. Bascially price controls that will cause shortages.
Obama started his career in Chicago campaigning for subprime mortgages to minorities.
So, how big a poll bounce does everyone think Obama will get from this big win tonight?
Six points? Eight points? More?
Obama is reaching for concepts that aren't there.
Inga said...
Bagoh, don't waste your time away from the debate on Meth head, he's not worth the energy.
Yeah, he's gotta remove his lips from your bolt on rod to get to a keyboard. Tough times.
I am so tired of Lehrer cutting off Romney and so obviously giving the floor to Obama to help him in his arguments. Really, really sick of crap like that.
Obama is putting people to sleep again.
Corzine likes Dodd-Frank, so Obama's got Biden's #1 go to guy on his side.
Living will tax payer bailouts? Whhhhaaaaat is he talking about?
Patrick - my point is that ever since Reagan, Republicans have touted tax cuts and spending cuts. They've always done the tax cuts and never the spending. Always lip service about that. In fact Romney wants to spend $2T additional on the military over 8 years? Is he fucking crazy?
AReasonableMan said...
Tyrone Slothrop said...
Obama cutting payments to Medicare providers means even fewer providers than we have now.
Patently not true. We can always bring new MDs into the system who are willing to work for less.
Sure we can. If absolutely everything we know about markets is wrong.
Obama is reaching for concepts that aren't there.
Obama is a strawman expert.
He's cutting mitt off again.
I think it would be an interesting task for someone to go through this debate and count how many times Lehrer interupts each candidate.
That's a pretty objective way to determine bias.
My view on all these debates is they're a farce because the MSM is in Obama's pocket + Romney will never tell the real truth to the voters. Thus, the kabuki theater for you all to enjoy.
That's not what I believe...This is one of the unintended consequences of Dodd Frank. Destroying (figuratively) the Pres.
The Community Reinvestment Act by law outlaws redlining to lenders who cannot by law lend to those who can't afford to.
Is it just me, or do others think that Jim Lehrer dislikes Mitt Romney and wishes that Romney would just be quiet to let President Obama run things?
Romney knows his shit!
But God, Lehrer is terrible. He should just shut up and leave.
Romney setting himself up to be smacked down over Romneycare?
I'm eating din-dins. Carnitas tacos.
Also, how much time each candidate speaks in their "two minute" chance.
if Jim genuflects to O any harder he's going to slip a disc.
Ok - Lerher is a an a@#hole - I take my pity back... Cutting off Mittens when rebutting O's "He want's to repeal Dodd Frank"...
Romney is kickin' it!
This is definitely Lehrer's worst debate. At least in the past he tried harder to *pretend* to be unbiased.
Finally, Romney addresses the cost of Obamacare to small business.
Well, I just learned more about what is actually in Dodd-Frank than I've heard in the past 2 years.
Romney: The cost of healthcare is out of control.
But, has no plan to deal with costs.
Also Romney has no intellectual credibility arguing that single-payer was OK to try in MA because of "states rights" but no good for federal. That's just bullshit. I'm left with thinking that Romney believes in NOTHING.
Corzine is the first guy Biden, Obama's go to guy, will get on the phone.
Yessir, Gov. Jon Corzine is the administration's economic brain trust.
Or that one lady.
Obamacare kills jobs!!
All this bitching about the moderator indicates which way this debate is heading.
Here it is. A 20 page state plan vs. the federal multi-thousand page behemoth.
AReasonableMan - Romney has his talking points which is to bash Obama. Obama does the same.
Do you enjoy this process?
Alex,
Alas you are right that too many R's mis-state or misrepresent the Laffer curve. Source of anger.
Obama personalizes the issue... pre-existing conditions.
He's better at this than Romney.
Whether he's actually telling the truth is problematic.
if Jim genuflects to O any harder he's going to slip a disc.
lol
Jim Lehrer dislikes Mitt Romney and wishes that Romney would just be quiet to let President Obama run things?
Don't we all? Obama is AWESOME!!!
I've never been prouder of my country than I am right now, after watching My President pummel that racist, sexist homophobic wingnut Mittens.
Not really, Reasonable Man, just laughing at him. He's a non-factor and should get out of the way.
At this time Obama should issue a drone strike on the Denver powerplant.... Totally in the weeds.
Jug ears looks pissed, tired.
he's back pedaling.
Obama says he will dictate to insurance coverage what products they can sell.
Obama steals time!
ORomney Care, again, lol.
That is, Obama says he will dictate to insurance companies what products they can sell.
And Romneycare is the precedent.
If the model works well in Massachusetts then why is their plan 20 pages and your is over 2000?
I would complain about Obama continually getting more time, but the more he talks, the more self inflicted wounds he is taking.
Romney's doing effing great. IMO, no contest.
Debating Obama *and* Lehrer at once. Go Mitt.
Of course the MSM will say Obama crushed Romney, Obama will get an 8 point bounce. blah blah blah, rinse & repeat the farce 2 more times. Obama will get re-elected and we will continue the same policies for 4 more years until the Chinese stop buying our treasuries.
Score a huge one for Mitt!
He's right though, Inga. I am only here to to protect you. That's why I try to get you to vote out Obama. He's bad for us all. Isn't it obvious? Can you really imagine a worse presidential performance? The worse recovery in your or your parents lifetimes. You don't really think Obama had nothing to do with that do you? You can't really believe someone else - maybe with some background in economics - would not have done better. I can't protect you if you won't help yourself. Besides if you don't change, Meth is gonna kick your ass.
Lets talker about how Obamacare passed!
YES!!!!
I am impressed with Romney. His points are coherent. Obama rambles.
Romney is sure of himself. I predict it will not be possible to push him into some huge gaffe. Too much experience.
Obama looks slightly ill. I'm guessing that's nerves. His voice is halting. I can't imagine he'll make any giants gaffes either though. He's generally an adept enough speaker.
I wonder how these answers play to people who don't have any background knowledge about these things. If they can't evaluate the answers, how will they know which man makes more sense?
Romney says he didn't raise taxes or put in place a system that rations care.
Alex said...
AReasonableMan - Romney has his talking points which is to bash Obama. Obama does the same.
Do you enjoy this process?
I don't think Obama is really bashing Mitt. Mitt doesn't really have a record that he disagrees with. He is bashing the republican congress and Bush.
Why does Lehrer keep telling Romeny to address Obama directly or ask him something directly? Has he said that once to Obama?
Romney scorched O with the Romneycare answer! Bi-partisan, bitch!
Lol, Romney almost lost his place. Good recover.
One of the surprising bits is that these two guys seem to be developing a liking for one another.
I don't see the bitterness and anger there that you might expect.
Oh crap, Ritmo has shown up. The thread is over.
Romney is lucky in that he has a jawline that doesn't show flexing too prominently. Obama and I have similar jaws--you can see the anxiousness in them.
Did I mention that we lost the insurance we wanted because it went up $500 a quarter.
Also that I paid $4.35/gallon for gas today. $40 to fill up a freakin' Honda Civic.
They should have called this Romney vs. Obama and Leaher.
Obama is such an ass, "doctors, etc", I don't think he understands anything.
Shouting Thomas said...
Romney says he didn't raise taxes or put in place a system that rations care.
Hence the problem with cost overruns.
I'm surprised by the lack of vitriol.
For the Ritmo-types it truly is all about "scoreboard". He gives not a shit about 20 million long-term unemployed, $16 trillion debt, a foreign policy in tatters. Who the fuck cares right? MY GUY WONS!!!!!!
Obama is defending Obamacare and putting me to sleep.
I blame the ESPN-ization of politics.
Obama is coming off like he practiced for this with Kerry.
Bad casting.
Baggy, you don't need to protect me, although I appreciate it.
I always consider what you say.
Wow, the incoherent rambling is non-stop on Ukrels part. STOP DUDE you are killing yourself onstage. It isn't even an empty suit anymore, he's taken it off.
The Pres. gave Romney a chance to distinguish Obamacare and Romneycare, and Romney did it well.
Obama: "There are two ways to deal with the healthcare crisis..."
No. I'm pretty damn sure there are far more ways than your way or nothing. Do you think the American public is stupid?
Obama promises to reduce costs under Obamacare.
I see little evidence to support that.
So we can't pay teachers on PERFORMANCE but we can pay doctors on performance.
"premiums have gone up slower..." LIE
As a preferer of Romney, I think this is going very well. The media will of course disagree.
Just compare how the 1960 Nixon vs Kennedy debate was. Very civil, very much talking about relevant issues and not just talking points.
What the fuck happened?
There's the Romney anxious tell, but it comes out when he wants to talk and has to wait. His eyes get big, he tilts his head down, and he looks out excitedly from underneath his brow.
Good point by Obama about repeal.
I seriously doubt whether Romney will repeal Obamacare, or that he would have the political clout to do so if elected.
Take the training wheels off, Barry, it's time to get on that terrifying two wheeler and OWN WHAT YOU'VE DONE!
What happened to Lehrer's mouth? It looks like it's closing.
Meth - it doesn't matter. Obama has 90% of the media in his pocket covering up everything. He can stumble, bumble and gaffe and he'll still get his 8 point bounce.
I'm watching online, and the presentation has them side by side in separate boxes -- and their heads are at the same level. Are they really the same height?
(goes to look).
Romney is an inch taller.
I hate to tell you guys, but these two guys like each other.
The personal animus is non-existent.
Pre-existing conditions are the Achilles heel of Romney's approach. It is one of the key reasons he implemented Obamacare in MA. Same with the uninsured and free riders.
It's the Obama-Lehrer tag team versus Romney.
Geez Mittens really hosed up scoring points on the death board. Big miss there....
Seriously. I know I'm biased, but it seems clear to me that tonight Romney is drinking Obama's milkshake, drinking it up.
Less difference between the two candidates than either want to admit.
Alex said...
Meth - it doesn't matter. Obama has 90% of the media in his pocket covering up everything. He can stumble, bumble and gaffe and he'll still get his 8 point bounce.
Which makes me wonder why republican candidates agree to have these fellow traveling comrades moderate.
No, Obama. Stop avoiding looking at Romney while he talks! It makes you look petulant.
Wait, Urkel's plan is a model based on Romney, and now it's a plan based on pre-existing conditions based on obama care? lol. RAMBLE MORE URKEL!!!
Obama says its allready the law... hes talking about Obamacare.
Obamacare is a fait accompli.
Romney tacitly accepts this.
Romney doesn't have a plan says Obama.
But Obama will tell him what's in it anyway.
This obsession with avoiding efficient medical practices is ridiculous on Romney's part. He is taking the exact opposite approach to what he would take if he was dealing with a private company.
Oh, here is the "he can't detail it"!!! Idiot, Romney wrote the law himself. You fool.
A Reasonable Man needs more "contributions" down his insatiable leftist maw.
As a Republican-American, I can try to say what I think about how they feel about each other.
Slick Willie was a win-at-any-cost creep. Algore...well, we all saw the debate. Kerry? Geesh. yes, all 3 of these guys hated their opponent and wished bad things to them.
Obama knows he is debating a smart guy. He also feels he is superior to most people, so perhaps the hate isn't there that we saw in past debates.
I never did understand how anyone thought that Obama was such a gifted orator in the 07/08 campaign season. Just because one reads a teleprompter well does not mean one can speak worth a darn.
Obama is filubustering
Post a Comment