October 11, 2012

Live-blogging the big VP debate.

6:45 Central Time: Get ready!

7:18: "Paul Ryan's very attractive to a lot of women," opines David Gergen on the CNN pre-show. I have the DVR set to play the debate on CNN, but I'm thinking of changing because they're going to display focus group reactions on screen — colored lines — through the whole thing. I want to form my own opinion!

7:47: CNN commentators are finding a hundred different ways to say that the debate will be affected by having the candidates sitting and physically close together. Somehow, it will be harder to fight, at least in a personal way.

8:03: Game on. First question is about Libya and the absence of protests. Biden goes first, not focusing on the question asked, the massive failure of intelligence. Ryan takes notes.

8:06: Biden talks about tracking down terrorists to the "gates of Hell," as Ryan smiles. Ryan immediately attacks the President for blaming the YouTube video. We should have had a Marine detachment protecting Chris Stevens. We've been "projecting weakness abroad." We're witnessing "the unraveling of Obama foreign policy."

8:09: Biden is being rude, laughing and mouthing words.  And Ryan is talking about serious national security matters. Biden mutters an interruption. When Biden is given a turn, he calls what Ryan said "malarky." Biden stutters and falters and has to say "uh" about 5 times before he can come up with the word "Iran."

8:12: "We weren't told they wanted more security," Biden says, and now it's Ryan who laughs — a little scoff.

8:13: Should the U.S. apologize? Ryan says "yes" re urinating on Korans — which the moderator (Raddatz) mentioned — but not "for standing up for our values."

8:15: Ryan is speaking earnestly about preventing Iran from getting nuclear weapons, and Biden is chuckling toothily, his body shaking like Santa Claus. Biden says if Republicans had had control of the sanctions, the rest of the world wouldn't have followed us. These were "the most crippling sanctions." Biden goes on and on assuring us that Iran is far from being able to deliver a nuclear bomb. He accuses the Republicans of "loose talk."

8:19: Biden talks to "Bibi" all the time and so does Obama. What Ryan says is "a bunch of stuff." When Ryan speaks, Biden is laughing clownishly again. It looks just awful. Ryan isn't rattled by it. I think he knows Biden looks foolish.

8:23: Biden is acting as though he cannot physically tolerate Ryan having a turn to speak!

8:25: Economics. Biden grabs the opportunity to push the 47% theme. He's "had it up to here," he says, with wealthy people not paying their fair share.  He sounds really cranky and angry. Ryan: "Joe and I are from similar towns." And in Janesville, his home town, unemployment has gone from 8.5% to 10%. Biden busts out another big grin.

8:29: "The Vice President very well knows that the words don't always come out the right way," Ryan says, getting a laugh, defending Romney from the 47% charge. Instead of taking this graciously, Biden mutters something about how he believes everything he says. Ryan tells some stories about Romney's charity toward the unfortunate, which includes someone that was in a car accident, and Biden takes the opportunity to remind us that his own wife died in a car crash, which is sad, but oddly misplaced.

8:33: Ryan talks about "green pork" in the stimulus, and Biden gets all cranked up about how Ryan sought stimulus money for his district. Biden continually interrupts Ryan in a way I find incredibly annoying.

8:36: While Ryan is talking about Medicare helping his mother and grandmother, Biden sighs long and loud. Sighing! Remember when Gore got in no end of trouble for sighing? How can Biden not know that?!

8:39: "They got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, turning Medicare into a piggy bank for Obamacare," says Ryan. Biden interrupts. Ryan says: "Mr. Vice President, I know you're under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think everyone will be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other." I love the politeness of "if we don't keep" — we — when Biden has been an interruption machine and Ryan has barely interrupted and only occasionally has talked over to keep from losing his turn. The moderator, Martha Raddatz has done nothing at all to control Biden, who is, I think, hurting himself. Biden says: "Well, don't take all 4 minutes then." He should have said, "All right" or something reasonably conciliatory.

8:51: The stress level is rising. Biden is so angry. Why is he yelling? Ryan needs nerves of steel not to lose his cool. I'm impressed that Ryan, when he gets his turn, is able to speak in an even, natural voice. It's hard to concentrate on the policy itself, because the emotional static is so strong.

9:11: Biden has been yelling at Martha Raddatz for the last 15 minutes (as the subject is war). It's so inappropriate!

9:21: They're asked to talk about how their Catholicism has informed their position on abortion. Ryan isn't pro-life "simply because of" his Catholicism. It's also about science and reason. He talks of seeing his bean-shaped unborn child on a sonogram. Biden says "My religion informs who I am." He accepts the Catholic position on abortion that life begins at conception, but he refuses to impose that on others.

9:27: The last question is about negative campaigning. Biden rambles. Paul Ryan attributes the negativity to Obama's failures: he has nothing to run on.

9:34: Wait. That wasn't the last question. There's a question about character: What do you bring as a man? Nothing particularly interesting was extracted by that question.

9:35: Now, closing statements.

9:48: That debate was so annoying! Some of the CNN commentators are talking about how Biden did what he came to do, to fire up the Democrats. "This was not for the independents," says Van Jones. Okay, well, but independents were watching, and Biden was horribly rude. He created this disturbing atmosphere of anxiety.

1,101 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   1001 – 1101 of 1101
campy said...

Net result: nothing changes; Romney ticket still doomed to lose.

Clyde said...

Over a thousand comments?! Wow...

I got tired of Vice President Smirky Smirkerton's act very quickly. It might have played well with the Kos Kiddies and the MoveOn.org types, but most people don't like rudeness. It's a turnoff.

Who knew that Neil Kinnock was such an asshole? ;-)

ALH said...

Obama and Biden vary their styles/accents and demeanors depending on what group they are talking to or trying to appeal to. To an extent, that's normal - but last night, Biden was cranking it up to 11. We actually saw about 3 different Biden's last night. Just one Paul Ryan - he seems very confident and comfortable with himself.

cubanbob said...

AReasonableMan said...
cubanbob said...
And what did the metrosexual Zero do with his filibuster proof congress?

He passed no-fault medical insurance for most of the country, so we now can feel all grown up, just like plucky little Israel and countries with thriving economies like Canada and Australia. And let's not forget, of course, the great state of Massachusetts.

10/11/12 11:24 PM

If its so good then why has the democrat congress that passed it and the democrat president who signed it exempted themselves from it? Speaking of thriving economies,Australia and Canada are now more business friendly than the US. Lets emulate that instead.

cubanbob said...

Jake Diamond said...
Biden was horribly rude.

Most people believe lying is exceptionally rude. Therefore it would be nearly impossible to be ruder than marathon man Pinocchio Ryan.

10/12/12 4:48 AM

Yes Biden's loes were exceptionally rude. And he has the blood of the 4 dead American's on his hand.

Roger J. said...

Wow over a thousand comments on a thread about a vice presidential debate. I think C4 pretty well hit it in his comment above. This charade will help the dem base, but Biden lost a great many indies and women with his clown act. The post debate polls seem to bear that out.

Curious George said...

"Inga said...
Erika, maybe conservative women wouldn't know what a Personhood bill was, which doesn't say much for being informed. I guarantee you liberal women know damn well what a Personhood bill is.

I wouldn't be so smug about being ignorant Erika."

This is rich coming from someone who is "100% behind Roe v Wade" but wants to outlaw abortion used for gender selection. I mean how fucking stupid is that?

Matt Sablan said...

It seems like when I went to bed thinking it was a rough draw, by the morning, my common wisdom is wrong. Lots of places seem to agree that Biden barely achieved his goal (excite the base), if any, and to do so, was forced to sacrifice the middle and independents for a net loss where he needed it.

Matt Sablan said...

Also, if we're going to talk about "lies," let's at least mention the biggest one of the night.

Biden did not vote against Iraq and Afghanistan.

If Biden won't even be honest about his own voting record, why should Americans put all the trust in him he was demanding?

Brian Brown said...

Jake Diamond said...

Most people believe lying is exceptionally rude. Therefore it would be nearly impossible to be ruder than marathon man Pinocchio Ryan.


Hilarious.

Biden made the patently false and outrageous claim that no one in the Obama administration knew that requests for extra security had been made by our Libyan ambassador, Christopher Stevens, and other members of our consulate in Benghazi

Even MSNBC pointed out that lie.

You're fucking retarded.

Roger J. said...

Guess it depends on what the Dem strategy was--Biden probably energized the Dem base a bit, but as C4 and Matthew Sablan point out, rightly IMO, he lost indies and women. See Professor Althouse's take on the debate above. Biden was in fact a jackass and did more harm than good.

Unknown said...

AA says in conclusion: "That debate was so annoying! ... Biden was horribly rude. He created this disturbing atmosphere of _anxiety_."

After pointing out Congressman Ryan's attractiveness at the start, the source of her anxiety is not difficult to identify: watching this fetching fellow getting his clock cleaned. When your campaign is based largely on magical math and "stuff," a degree of anger is appropriate and easily tolerated. It's like the gross violence in a Stallone or Schwarzenegger film.

Matt Sablan said...

Speaking of lies, the WaPo is kind of brutal to Biden throughout.

"Ryan is right, and Biden is wrong."

"Biden’s bold statement was directly contradicted by State Department officials just this week ... Maybe Biden was too busy in debate prep to watch?"

"(Biden's claim about embassy security budget cuts) is not a real number with true budget impact."

"But Biden has ignored the rest of the interview (regarding Romney's statemens on OBL.)"

Even the lengthy section on Ryan's critique of Iran ends with: "The Iranian economy appears to be suffering, but the Islamic Republic thus far has shown little sign that it plans to slow down its nuclear program in response to these sanctions." -- Essentially exactly what Ryan asserted.

Over the $716 billion: "Ryan is correct that in the health-care bill, the anticipated savings from Medicare were used to help offset some of the anticipated costs of expanding health care for all Americans."

"In describing the administration’s tax plan, Biden appeared to have moved the goal posts."

"Biden went a bit far saying it is “a fact” that religious groups will not pay for contraceptives under the health care law."

"Actually, the administration has long discussed having an “enduring presence” of 10,000 to 15,000 troops, mainly as advisors who would reside on military bases. (On leaving Afghanistan in 2014)."

There's some mild picking on Ryan's language, but nowhere near the range and scope of the hit job on Biden in there. And they don't touch the war votes.

Toad Trend said...

Watched for about 10 minutes and couldn't take Biden's disrespect. Typical snarky unserious liberal.

Matt Sablan said...

Also to answer the question: It looks like yes, the candidates would be just as forceful and pushy with a female moderator. I think Biden was actually ruder to Raddatz than either were to Lehrer. But, Raddatz actually challenged Biden at the start of the debate (getting in the night's best line to Biden: "You act like (Iran) does not want one (a nuclear weapon.)"

Matt Sablan said...

I have to disagree a bit with Althouse, by the way Raddatz didn't try to control Biden much, but at the start, she really was hard on him. Especially on Libya and Iran (I think she's a foreign policy journalist, so I think she felt comfortable taking him to task there.) Somewhere around minute 40 or so she just seemed to give up and just kept cutting Ryan off so she didn't have to deal with Biden's whining and interrupting.

Also, just remember, for all Biden's complaining on time, he spoke more than Ryan, and Ryan frequently was not given his full two minutes.

So, yet again, the Obama/Biden team spoke more, said less.

mark said...

@Unknown "...watching this fetching fellow getting his clock cleaned"

Nah. It is more that Biden looked like a sociopath. He really lived up to that crazy drunk uncle style.

Ask a normal person, who would you rather work with? Crazy Biden or Calm Ryan?

Biden lied in the typical mythomania way as well. Everyone knows he voted for the wars. He lies and said he didn't. The state department is under oath saying the the White House was warned about Libyan threats. He lies and said they weren't. Pathological liars like Biden just can't help themselves.

Roger J. said...

there is a reason why unknown is, in fact, unknown.

michaele said...

Forgive me if this has already been said but Biden's maniacal grin reminded me of the scene in The Shining when Jack Nicholson slashes through a door with an ax, sticks his head through, smiles crazily and then announces "Here's Johnny!" Biden's antics were disturbing and unsettling to me.

Michael Haz said...

The Ryan family will be living at One Observatory Circle NW, Washington, D.C. 20008 next January.

MayBee said...

What do you all think about Biden blaming this on the intelligence community?

What do you think of him saying they did not know the consulate wanted more security?

Obama and Biden sent our military into that war, siding with militants, without any permission from Congress.
Was their intelligence any good at the time? When did it get so bad?
Do they pay any attention to their people in the field in these dangerous countries?

Has Obama ever said to his intelligence or State briefer, "How are things going in Libya?"? When was the last time Obama or Biden spoke to Stevens?

MayBee said...

The State Department was in touch with the guys on the ground in Libya watching this play out in real time, and furthermore had guys evacuated to Tripoli who had witnessed the whole thing.

Is communication in government so bad (even though we can communicate through a terrorist attack!) that State can't ask what happened and brief the president within a few hours?

Are we really supposed to believe nobody talked to these guys or told the president what they said?

Didn't Obama *demand* to know? Didn't he pull a Fluke, and get on the phone and call them?

furious_a said...

Most people believe lying is exceptionally rude.

Then Jesus must think Joe Biden is very rude, lying about Obamacare not violating Catholic institutions' freedom of conscience.

What's the Latin for Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!!?

furious_a said...

Nurse Racket: I wouldn't be so smug about being ignorant Erika.

...says the person who smugly declared "Ryan lost it on abortion", then switched to "Personhood" when called out on it.

Brian Brown said...

What do you all think about Biden blaming this on the intelligence community?

Honestly: Joe Biden is so stupid that I wouldn't expect him to say anything else.

The idea that he can comprehend these issues seems obscene to me.

The guy is a lifelong government slug and documented plagarist.

pm317 said...

Matthew Sablan said...
-----------------------

You're right. I wrote a comment on another blog to the same effect. Biden bullied Raddatz and she didn't know how to get control of him/debate. He was out of control.

pm317 said...

Where is Ann? Come on new posts please.

furious_a said...

Watched for about 10 minutes and couldn't take Biden's disrespect. Typical snarky unserious liberal.

That was the Obama campaign's plan all along. The true believers would stay for the pep raly, moderates/undecideds would tune out in disgust.

Scorched Earth. They're just getting started.

dbp said...

Biden is an ass, but he gets away with it when he is in "genial mode".

When he is aggressive, he just comes-off as an asshole. He would have been better off in his easy-going act, then Ryan-with all his hard cold numbers and facts-would have seemed bullying.

Matt Sablan said...

Hey, at least Biden didn't try and prove he had a higher IQ, plagiarize anyone's life stories, or talk about 7-11s and Indian accents. So: Point Biden.

Brian Brown said...

Rasmussen Friday Romney 48-47. Romney pulls Republicans 87-9, democrats 13-86, and independents 47-44.

Brian Brown said...

Nothing about Obama or Biden's political careers indicate either could point to Libya on a map.

I'm Full of Soup said...

I would like to add Biden has been using his time machine again.

He famously claimed FDR went on national TV to talk to the public. Of course, almost eberyone knows FDR died before there was nationally available TV.

And last night, Biden claimed Palin brought up death panels in the last VP debate yet she never used that term until six months after Biden and Obama had been sworn into office.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Leftists and prog liberals: Please learn something.

"It dates to the sleazy world of fascist and totalitarian propaganda in the 1930s. It was part of the milieu of stooges, show trials and dupes. These were people willing to say anything to defeat their opposition. Denouncing people as liars was at the center of it. The idea was never to elevate political debate but to debauch it."

Rusty said...

From what I've been seeing on my facebook page-I know a few Madison liberals. Well I call then uber liberals.
They believe Biden kicked ass last night, but then I expected that.
Mostly Biden was just an embarassment for the democrats.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Biden voted for both wars.

So, Biden lied about that. See - I can point to an actual lie without yelling "Liar!" and I can back it up with facts.

Matt Sablan said...

"And last night, Biden claimed Palin brought up death panels in the last VP debate yet she never used that term until six months after Biden and Obama had been sworn into office."

-- I was ashamed I didn't catch this till someone mentioned it on Twitter.

carrie said...

Joe Biden is a heckler. My husband is a staunch Democrat who will vote for Obama no matter what, I am an Independent who has decided to vote for Romney, so my husband and I both thought our repsective candidates won. However, one of my undecided Independent friends labeled Biden a heckler and passed that thought on to other undecided Independent friends and they all agreed and they were really put off by that because they wanted to hear what Ryan had to say. After seeing the Wisconsin protests, I think Biden was just acting like a normal liberal. I think that Walker's big win in the recall elections was due in part to people being put off by the heckling liberal persona and I bet that could be the tipping point for some Independents in the presidential election too.

Brian Brown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Toad Trend said...

"Watched for about 10 minutes and couldn't take Biden's disrespect. Typical snarky unserious liberal.

That was the Obama campaign's plan all along. The true believers would stay for the pep raly, moderates/undecideds would tune out in disgust."

Um, don't count me as a moderate or undecided, thanks.

I tuned in to see if Biden would actually temper his tired act and try to come off as reasonable.

Didn't take much time at all to prove he/the left are batshit crazy and unserious.

For them, its about shallowness, lying and deflection to save their sorry asses for 4 more years of power and control.

Brian Brown said...

CNN Focus Group Member: Biden Acted Like 'Buffoon'

Of course inga/allie and jakie think Joey Teef did a great job!

furious_a said...

And last night Biden claimed...

...that Obamacare didn't violate freedom of conscience of Catholic institutions, when...

(1) Catholic institutions have filed twelve lawsuits claiming exactly that about Obamacare's contraceptive/abortofacient coverage mandate and...
(2) his pastor would have read the pastoral letter stating exaclty that to Biden's congregation.
(3) the Obama Administration lost its most prominent Catholic ally over the coverage mandate.

MadisonMan said...

Which man would you rather have as President, if the need arose?

Biden? No thank you. Imagine him with Putin instead of Ryan, or Ahmadinejad.

Ryan is young, but he came off -- to me, from what I have read (I did not watch) -- as capable and serious.

That's different from the last election.

Someone may have said this already, and if so I apologize for a non-original observation. But I couldn't read through all the back-and-forth about the History of Germany and the sex change operation.

Dark Eden said...

Its interesting how 'liar' is being added to 'racist' and 'nazi' as a boilerplate insult all not Democrats are guilty of. And how all three terms are becoming jokes because of it. Everyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist? Everyone who votes Republican is a nazi? Everyone who opposes a democrat lies about Everything? Really?

Leland said...

I guess we now know what Obama meant when he said, "I was too polite". Bring it on.

Patrick said...

1000+ comments - something going on?

Patrick said...

Wow. Did Biden really say he didn't vote for the wars?

Brian Brown said...

Tom Brokaw: Biden 'Shouldn't Be Laughing' When Discussing Nuclear War

Brian Brown said...

w. Did Biden really say he didn't vote for the wars?

Yes.

And he also said we shouldn't be concerned if Iran gets a nuclear weapon because "They have nothing to put in it"

Feel better now?

Patrick said...

feel better now

Yes, but only because I expect Romney/Ryan to win.

furious_a said...

Joe Biden was first elected to office the same year Paul Ryan was born...and Paul Ryan came across last night as the capable and serious one.

Oy.

Brian Brown said...

Sorry, Biden actually said:

"Iran doesn't have anything to put a nuclear bomb in"

Patrick said...

I see that the EU won the Peace Prize this year, for avoiding war in a war ravaged continent. Well, good for them, but isn't it more likely that Democracy has allowed them to maintain peace? Democracy fostered by the US, and maintained by NATO?

Matt Sablan said...

Jay: For all the crap Raddatz is getting, she did have a great line about that: "You act like they don't want one."

Poor Biden; even when the moderator is on his side she gives him hell.

PackerBronco said...

A Vice President has two jobs: 1) to assume the presidency if something happens to the president and 2) to look and act dignified at State funerals.

We already knew that Biden couldn't handle the first job and now we have serious doubts about whether he can handle the second job!

garage mahal said...

Pretty obvious now why Ryan won't debate Rob Zerban. Bet he's glad it's over, that was a pummeling he won't soon forget.

AllenS said...

Who in the fuck is Rob Zerban?

Matt Sablan said...

Garage: You're aware that thus far, almost every snap poll has Ryan winning or in a tie with Biden, right?

Biden did not win; he did not pummel Ryan.

Brian Brown said...

Jay: For all the crap Raddatz is getting, she did have a great line about that: "You act like they don't want one."

Yeah, and I doubt Biden knows where Iran is.

furious_a said...

Garage: Bet he's glad it's over, that was a pummeling he won't soon forget.

If by that you mean "he won't forget being stuck next to his wife's drunken uncle at Thanksgiving dinner", you'd be right.

garage mahal said...

Garage: You're aware that thus far, almost every snap poll has Ryan winning or in a tie with Biden, right?

The two polls I seen on undecided voters showed Biden winning.

I do appreciate righties rallying around the obvious loser though. I wish Democrats were as good as Republicans at that.

Matt Sablan said...

Which polls are those?

garage mahal said...

If by that you mean "he won't forget being stuck next to his wife's drunken uncle at Thanksgiving dinner", you'd be right.

If you can't handle your uncle, how can you handle Ahmadinejad?

Paddy O said...

Interesting to me how the approach for Obama/Biden has adapted over the years. Hope and Change has turned into Occupy the Debates.

Occupy was, of course, highly popular with the Left, going to radicalize the world, and all sorts of academics pointed to it as the wave of new involvement.

Only it fired up the far Left as it turned off the rest, as what was interpreted as radical by some was seen as boorish by most.

Last night, Biden did exactly what he could do and could do best, what he needed to do. But it also tossed away the last vestiges of hope and change. Now we're left with Angry and Boorish, politics like it always was.

Matt Sablan said...

Clearly, you handle him by laughing about the thought of Iran using a nuclear weapon on Israel.

furious_a said...

It could have been worse -- this (Sherman/Berman CA-30 primary) is some hot Blue-on-Blue action from yesterday.

Things were said. Personal spaces were violated. Police were called.

wyo sis said...

Garage
He DID handle the drunken uncle. And masterfully. The drunken uncle is second in command in an Obama administration. That ought to be sobering.

Brian Brown said...

garage mahal said...

The two polls I seen on undecided voters showed Biden winning


You're silly, fat liar.

AllenS said...

Pretty obvious now why Biden won't debate Gladys Snarkbubble.

MayBee said...

Would the lefties here be happy to see Obama in the next debate act as Biden did?

Patrick said...

I do appreciate righties rallying around the obvious loser though. I wish Democrats were as good as Republicans at that.

Uh, ... Jim Doyle?

Dark Eden said...

I'm floored that Democrats are actually happy with Sneering Joe's performance last night.

Brian Brown said...

I do appreciate righties rallying around the obvious loser though

I bet you thought the hysterics at the Wellstone funeral were just a grand idea.

CNBC had it Ryan 56%-36%, CNN Ryan 48%-44%

I bet you "didn't see" those polls, you fat clown.

wyo sis said...

MayBee
From all appearances the lefties are not ever happy about anything. Oh, except maybe the deaths of ambassadors and the idea of Iran with a nuclear weapon. That makes them hysterical.

MayBee said...

If you can't remember you did, in fact, vote for two wars, how are you going to handle anything?

furious_a said...

Garage: If you can't handle your uncle, how can you handle Ahmadinejad?

"I think the vice president knows, sometimes the words don't always come out of your mouth the way you want."

Heh, handled him just fine.

Matt Sablan said...

I am aware of one poll that Biden won; 50/3X/1X (Biden/Ryan/Undecided), via CBS. That's a pretty huge difference than the other polls I've seen, so I'm not sure what to make of it. But, like all the snap polls of the night, they seem to defy what I saw on Twitter (that it was pretty much a draw.)

gloogle said...

Well, as I said right before the debate started, it would get ugly, real fast.

Biden was pretty much a joke. He landed a couple of jabs, but everyone will remember his performance more for a) acting like the "crazy uncle", thus confirming his own caricature, and b) lying about his voting record. Ryan came across as professional and did not get rattled by Biden's juvenile antics. He looked vice-presidential. He made his points clearly, and got in a couple of good jabs of his own. Ryan wins.

Also fascinating to see the Democrat troll operatives out in force again here. Too bad their efforts were in vain again.

Patrick said...

Didn't see the debate. More important than the polls about who won will be the polls about how people will vote, and whether the debate moved them. Last week, Romney's schooling of the President clearly moved the polls. THis week? Time will tell. Even then, there's only one that matters.

ricpic said...

Unrelenting rudeness is a symptom of a monstrously bloated ego.

MikeR said...

Okay, liberal losers. Got that out of your system? You also want to snarl, snark, sneer, and storm at conservatives! Right? Ahhh.

We all understand that Mr. Obama can't do that without losing the election, but no one cares that much about the Vice President, and now formerly depressed liberal losers are cheered up.

Can we get back to the usual issues and character assassination and such?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

garage mahal said...

I do appreciate righties rallying around the obvious loser though.


Yes, this is genuinely touching. The poor puppy got schooled but they love him anyway.

X said...

I think Joe did the country a service last night. As Ryan said, the choice is clear.

Matt Sablan said...

Did anyone read the WaPo fact check that savaged Biden? Anyone who honestly thinks Biden won by fighting against Ryan's "lies" is deluded. This is sort of like when people claimed Romney won by lying, only Romney did not lie and Biden did not win.

furious_a said...

The poor puppy got schooled but they love him anyway.

They do at CBS, anyway:

The instant polls:
CNBC: Ryan 56%-36%...
CBS: Biden 50%-31%...
CNN: Ryan 48%-44%
AP: Ryan 51%-43%.

///

Matt Sablan said...

Et tu, Associated Press?

AlphaLiberal said...

Romney was interrupting a lot last week. Was that, also, "horrible?" No, it's fine when Republicans do it. He was also smirking and smirking. Again, IOKIYAR!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

CBS Snap Poll
Joe Biden 50%
Paul Ryan 31%
Tie 19%

Let's try to get those facts straight. We can't all act like Romney, or words would have no meaning at all.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/?pageNum=2&tag=page

Roger J. said...

Hmmm--a "reasonable man"--you choose to ignore the rest of the polls--nice work--keep your day job.

Matt Sablan said...

Alpha: Romney was interrupting because he spoke significantly less than Obama and was constantly being talked over. If Ryan had been as assertive as Romney, maybe Biden wouldn't've lied so often.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

AlphaLiberal said...
Romney was interrupting a lot last week. Was that, also, "horrible?" No, it's fine when Republicans do it. He was also smirking and smirking.


Romney was a complete asshole in that debate. Apparently all the beta-males around here need their 'leader' to behave like that in order to feel good about themselves. It doesn't seem to matter to them that Romeny threw all their precious principles under the bus in the process.

Matt Sablan said...

Reasonable Man: You realize Obama talked MORE, got more time and was allowed to rebut as frequently or more so? Romney was forced to have to assert himself to even have what, four or five minutes less than Obama (to put it in perspective: Romney got an entire question's worth less time.)

Bruce Hayden said...

That's interesting because I listened to the first half hour on the radio driving home and was absolutely convinced that Biden was dominating and "winning." I presumed that those long silences were thoughtful pauses. I was absolutely shocked when I watched the same sequence on TV and saw that those "thoughtful pauses" was smirk-filled clowning.

I didn't see Biden so much as a clown, as a nasty bully. And, yes, I too am biased. But, I don't see how he picked up any votes from true moderates or undecideds.

But, that may have been the plan. How to get Obama's campaign turned around? Crank up the base. Sure, it will also crank up their opponents, but they were already cranked after the last debate.

Or, and this maybe more realistic, Biden figured that this is what the campaign needed, and did it, with little concurrence from Obama and his people.

In any case, I cannot see how his antics could have helped with very many true undecideds. He was just plain rude, and Americans expect more than that from their Vice President. The moderates and conservatives also believe in fair play, and he violated that big time.

Ryan had a fairly low bar, at one level, and that was not to screw up, or let Slo Joe make a fool of him. And, he did that, without visibly losing his temper.

So, I think that, in the end, Ryan "won", because he didn't screw up, and the impression that non-die-hard Dems and non-Obama-supporters came away with was one decent young guy trying to do the right thing, play by the rules, and one older guy lying, cheating, and just trying to intimidate the younger man. Plenty of good footage out there of Biden doing this for future use.

dbp said...

There are a couple ways of looking at what might be hoped for in a debate like this: Fire up your base (so they get to the polls) sway undecideds.

Based on the comments of the left wing here, they got fired-up. Problem is that the same antics that motivate the left also motivate the right. Plus, it looks like swing voters will be won-over by the kind of performance Ryan displayed and will be repelled by Biden's.

traditionalguy said...

A final thought: Biden's only good moments were when he spoke about withdrawal from Afghanistan. He became assertive and authoritative in his delivery on that because he was right and Ryan/Romney are wrong there.

Biden was the so;e sane Dem voice against the self destructive Surge ending at a set date.

Speak truth instead of Obama Lies got Joe his mojo back for a few minutes.

Michael Haz said...

garage mahal said...

I do appreciate righties rallying around the obvious loser though

Tom Barrett is running for VP?

traditionalguy said...

A final thought: Biden's only good moments were when he spoke about withdrawal from Afghanistan. He became assertive and authoritative in his delivery on that because he was right and Ryan/Romney are wrong there.

Biden was the so;e sane Dem voice against the self destructive Surge ending at a set date.

Speak truth instead of Obama Lies got Joe his mojo back for a few minutes.

Blue@9 said...

"Romney was interrupting a lot last week. Was that, also, "horrible?"

I saw a qualitative difference there. Romney interrupted to clarify points or put more facts out. Biden was interrupting with sighs and weird facial melodrama.

Blue@9 said...

"I am aware of one poll that Biden won; 50/3X/1X (Biden/Ryan/Undecided), via CBS."

Check out the D/R/I spreads for all these polls. The CNN poll showing a slight Ryan win polled a larger percentage of R's than the CBS poll.

Off the top of my head, I think the CNN poll was 33% R, 31% D, whereas the CBS poll was over 40% D. This just confirms my belief that each side thinks they won.

yashu said...

At no point did Romney interrupt Obama. He might have interrupted Lehrer (just as Obama did). But when Obama spoke, Romney listened attentively until it was his turn to respond..

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