November 7, 2012

"Listen, I like stopping by Althouse, but let's get real. Althouse and Meade are living a high-income, privileged life that many of us can only dream about."

Rants Jeffrey in my "time to stop talking about the election and have our lives be about love and beauty" post.
It takes a day like today to put all of that into focus. Cultivate your garden?! I've seen the photos of where she and Meade live. C'mon. Many of us would love to live surrounded by all those expensive toys and have the summer off to order a pile of books for the Kindle and take a few leisurely vacations.

The class (and income) issue rarely comes up here. I think it's about time we hashed this out.

As others have pointed out above, Ann's cavalier, gather-ye-rosebuds response is predicated on being financially stable for the rest of her life. She has the good life NOW and will have it till the day she dies (or almost).

Let me repeat, though. I generally enjoy Ann's blog, but today seems like a good time for people to discuss this issue.
I'd said "cultivate your garden" in a comment in that thread. It's a reference to Voltaire's advice in "Candide" — damn, I typo'd "candidate"! — where it's not just advice for the comfortably affluent. Here, you can put it in your Kindle — in English — for $0.00 — absolutely free. You can read the greatest books ever written and never run out of reading material — all free

And I have the summer off because I choose not to teach during the summer. I choose not to make more money. As for Meade's economic choices, you don't know what they are, and I choose not to invade our privacy by explaining the structure of the economic unit that is our household. But we do, in many ways, choose noncommercial activities over moneymaking things, and we take advantage of the wealth that we have built up in our lives by enjoying our home and the natural beauty of our state and our country. We buy a state park sticker for our car every year and county ski and bike trail passes, and we never run out of incredibly cheap things to do.

If Meade and I were starting our lives together and in our 20s — a topic we've discussed many times — we would put a premium on love and beauty and on maximizing our free time... and our freedom generally. But that isn't where we happened to meet. You may be somewhere else, and if you are, use your brain. Figure out what your values really are and what you should be doing with your life. You are not your job. You are not a slave. Think! Pay attention! Do something with what you have. Don't pester your mind with envy. It's perfectly idiotic to wait for the world to change into a form you like.

That's what Voltaire was talking about when he had his long-suffering character Candide say:
"I know... that we must cultivate our garden."

"You are right," said Pangloss, "for when man was first placed in the Garden of Eden, he was put there ut operaretur eum, that he might cultivate it; which shows that man was not born to be idle."

"Let us work," said Martin, "without disputing; it is the only way to render life tolerable."

The whole little society entered into this laudable design, according to their different abilities. Their little plot of land produced plentiful crops. Cunegonde was, indeed, very ugly, but she became an excellent pastry cook; Paquette worked at embroidery; the old woman looked after the linen. They were all, not excepting Friar Giroflée, of some service or other; for he made a good joiner, and became a very honest man.

Pangloss sometimes said to Candide: "There is a concatenation of events in this best of all possible worlds: for if you had not been kicked out of a magnificent castle for love of Miss Cunegonde: if you had not been put into the Inquisition: if you had not walked over America: if you had not stabbed the Baron: if you had not lost all your sheep from the fine country of El Dorado: you would not be here eating preserved citrons and pistachio-nuts."

"All that is very well," answered Candide, "but let us cultivate our garden."

567 comments:

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MadisonMan said...

I doubt they make much more than $250M

Few people make a quarter of a billion.

Bender said...

even commie-BHO doesn't think that they're redistribute material

Sure he does -- they are on the RECEIVING END of income redistribution. The money was taken from you and everyone here in taxes and given to her.

Pragmatist said...

Some people just cannot get a good literary reference I guess. And what in the world is wrong with high income and the privledge that it bestows? Isn't that the American Dream? Making and spending money is a good thing.

Patrick said...

I doubt they make much more than $250M

Few people make a quarter of a billion.


Sheesh, even A-Rod had to spread it out over 10 years.

Shanna said...

Now this conversation assumes that one earns enough money to meet basic needs at their truly basic. Some people don't.

Thank you, Freeman. I certainly don't resent anything Althouse has, but I completely understand if some people in poorer circumstances aren't feeling so sanguine today.

Alex said...

Carnifex - take it easy man.

kcom said...

"And what in the world is wrong with high income and the privledge that it bestows? Isn't that the American Dream?"

Nothing is wrong with it. And, yes, it is the American Dream. So why do Democrats have such a problem with it?

Beyond that I agree with those who said, or were observing, that advice to hang out and have fun in your garden from Ann might be appropriate to a certain slice of the blog readership, but it's hardly universally relevant advice. For some people, matters are far more pressing and it's not a choice to withdraw from politics, or at least the implications thereof. Icepick's comments from the other day come to mind. How is this result going to change his prospects? Does he have the luxury of putting it out of his mind? From the sound of what he said, the answer is an emphatic no.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Marshal,

Someone's giving away free Kindles? And chargers? And electricity? And internet connections?

Well, either someone has given you electricity and internet connectivity (not to mention the computer on which you typed this comment), or you paid for them yourself.

I believe Kindle files can be read without a Kindle, though I've not tried. In any case, the amount of public domain stuff (including, obviously, all of Voltaire, tough not recent translations, which would still be under copyright) that you can access for free with the Internet connection you obviously already have is pretty vast. You're positing a wide river separating the digital book-haves from the digital book-have-nots, where there's actually the sort of creek most people would just step over.

Alex said...

Look at the upside, the American people decided to keep the House GOP. Essentially this election was "stay the course" all around.

Chip Ahoy said...

You know what? This sounds so fucking retarded but here's the thing. Now that I know half of you really are economically straight up retarded I feel free to offer you this very simple plain advice. It's sounds so simple it's stupid. But you're stupid, so it should be a good fit.

No advice actually. Just short anecdotes for stupid people. Regular people who don't vote for twenty trillion dollar national debt just skip, this will be too stupid for you, for it is simple, more simple even than understanding that twenty trillion dollars national debt is a bad thing. Okay, retards, here goes.

I liked to draw Egyptian pictures. Had a bunch of crap on my walls. Painted the walls. Took down crap. Left with blank space I pondered, what would be the perfect picture for me? Turned out to be a piece of Egyptian tomb but that's illegal. Painted one. Loved it. LOVED it. Showed it to everybody. Word spread. Requests arose. eventually some 30 stuccos in the Egyptian style were sold. All painted to please myself first and someone else second. $$ arose naturally around the activity of pursuing what I wanted for myself.

Similar thing with sign language. People saw me enjoying myself. I help people all the time with it. It's a skill that people pay for. Circumstances shifted so that I asked to interpret, which i love to do and would do for free, but I was paid and that it could be a career

People saw me catering and ... I was offered money and ...

There's three anecdotes right there.

I was paid to be photographed for wearing clothes I didn't even care for and I noticed while doing that activity there are people uglier than me who liked it a lot more than me who pursued it further and made much more $$ than I did just playing around. Still do these things.

I was reading for blind students for fun and to get out until finally I was offered to be paid for reading books for blind people in person and for recordings.

A friend asked me to help cocktail wait an elaborate world-class gathering, due to my naturally occurring charm no doubt, whereupon I met tons of amazing people and was paid for it with more offers. Marvin Davis was the guy's name, he's dead now but his son is still alive, a total mess, and I mean it.

There's three more. See, I have no advice here, all I know is what happens. This is how stupid this is. Presently I'm making hummingbird feeders out of bottles. For myself. This just keeps going and going, people see them, I give them away, coming and going, going and going, screwing around and then sure enough someone wants to buy one and I'm all no way dude. Everybody tries to monetize everything automatically. Even this place. Blogger offers help. There's eight examples without really trying that shows how money comes flying out of nowhere and sticks to you automatically when you're jacking around doing things you like. I realize that sounds airy-fairy but it's what occurs in America and it can be anything. Even making spaghetti.

Just one word of caution though, do try to avoid racking up: twentygoddamntrilliondollarsofnationaldebt

And stop bothering me with your pathetic ridiculous money-envy, bringing that up all the time when you show less imagination than occurs to children.

Lydia said...

Now this conversation assumes that one earns enough money to meet basic needs at their truly basic. Some people don't. They may have sick relatives who they must subsidize. They may not have the intelligence to work anything beyond menial jobs. They may have been abandoned by a spouse. They may not be able to find work of any kind. Or something else. Or all of these.

Another thank-you to Freeman. This is something too often missing in conservative and libertarian talk. And, in fact, they often seem to say that there are no natural-born “losers” in life, that everyone just needs to tug on those bootstraps and all will be well. But there are losers and life gets very, very tough for them in a bad economy and even worse in an inflationary one.

Alex said...

If only we had a minimum income test for voting. Poor people should not be allowed to vote themselves rich people's money.

Pettifogger said...

I am not concerned how well other people live. I am more concerned how I and those close to me are able to live. That other people live better than I does not diminish how well I live. Rather it shows me what else is possible.

In general I wish other people well. I try consciously to avoid envy. It seem country productive.

Pettifogger said...

Counter productive.

Dante said...

Farmer Complains about whining:

I'm so tired of hearing people whine about not being able to get jobs out of college. Who told you you were owed a job? Boo hoo. Take your education and knowledge and skills and make something happen.

Get over yourself, Farmer. Almost everything I read from you is your enjoying kicking someone else, or throwing monkey shit around.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Mine is not as big as yours...

Said president Obama to Mitt Romney.

Its ugly... to use a familiar word.

Known Unknown said...

country productive.

That goes with being Country Strong!

master cylinder said...

Interesting thread.

John said...

"I don't know enough about you to give you more particularized economic advice, but comparing what you have to what other people have is, unless they have stolen from you, foolish."

Ann, it makes you look foolish to presume to know more than you do. Some people seek out leisure while others assume responsibilities. We do have a few things in common. I too went back to school at 28 - in my case engineering school. Before that but after a tour in the Marines, I too had roots in the hippie era. After a career in the real world of aerospace I took early retirement - to accept a government job. Yes. Like you I am an overpaid government employee. But back to responsibilities - I am not seeking validation or approval but give it some thought and I bet you can think of a few ways that others have by choice taken on responsibilities that might even be commendable. And of course once taken those responsibilities honored.

Have you heard this one? What do you call 1000 engineers at the bottom of the ocean? No? Me neither.

And please accept my apologies as I was not grousing about my life. I was grousing about yours, or rather your seeming inability to understand how others might view it - being a life of leisure and all.

master cylinder said...

I do think blaming Obama isnt going to help anyone.

test said...

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
Marshal,

Someone's giving away free Kindles? And chargers? And electricity? And internet connections?

Well, either someone has given you electricity and internet connectivity (not to mention the computer on which you typed this comment), or you paid for them yourself.


I really don't understand your point. The professor was making a comment about not needing money because things are free. I point out they are not free. How is this responsive?

Farmer said...

Dante said...
Get over yourself, Farmer. Almost everything I read from you is your enjoying kicking someone else, or throwing monkey shit around.


Not a whole lot of content there, Dante. It seems like you're envious of my jib.

Maybe you should work a little harder, then you can afford your own kick-ass jib.

Paco Wové said...

"being a life of leisure and all"

You really think Althouse doesn't work?

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

"Just one word of caution though, do try to avoid racking up: twentygoddamntrilliondollarsofnationaldebt

Go chip!

Sadly, the first 4 years of Obama are not paid for. He used our money and gave billions upon billions to fake green energy "start ups" that all went bankrupt. The democrat venture capitalist at the top of the "start up", who was already wealthy, got to keep the spoils. Of course said democrat gives generously, with our tax dollars - to the democrat party.

We will all pay for Obama's corruption. Even you, libtards.

I see the stock market tanked today. Dang. I wish I would have sold out the day before the election. Silly me. I thought the nation had some brains.

mccullough said...

Freeman,

Well said. In fairness to Obama, neither he nor Romney can do much about the way the economy has been going for the last 30 years or so with globalization and technology. A lot of the state and local governments started ramping up hiring in the 90s and 00s to provide jobs for the middle clase because the economy was doing well for tech companies and manufacturers of products who make things overseas. It has lead to good things for consumers for cheaper products they like and higher productivity for not only people in the service industry but for companies that manufacture higher-end goods in the U.S. as well

Google is an astonishing company but only employs 25,000 people, which is fewer than the number of teachers in Chicago.

The "new" economy is good for people who work in tech companies and industries who service them (lawyers, consultants, etc.) and for people who can make money through investing. But there are fewer good jobs all around, even in the public sector, which kept the middle class afloat the last 15 years.

Seven Machos said...

Had Romney won, would it have been okay for Althouse and Meade to go on nature walks?

chickelit said...

Jibless claims revised upwards (unexpectedly).

Roberto said...

He forgot to mention that you're both douchebags.

Thought I should clear that up.

Curious George said...

Market tanked today. Largest loss of the year. I think it was a spontaneous reaction to a video.

Crunchy Frog said...

Mine is not as big as yours...

Said president Obama to Mitt Romney.


Must have got it from his mom's side of the family.

#ohyeshedid

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Had Romney won, would it have been okay for Althouse and Meade to go on nature walks?

Well put seven.

Roberto said...

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the humanity!!!

And the WHINNNNIIIINNNNGGGG!!!

The BIIITTTTCCCHHHIIINNNGGG!!!

The incessant, never ending, high pitched WHINE of the Althouse gang.

Music to my ears!!!

Dante said...

Maybe you should work a little harder, then you can afford your own kick-ass jib.

I should have added "This message intentionally left bank."

I'm doing fine financially, thanks. Opportunities for the kids? Not so great.

chickelit said...

The "new" economy is good for people who work in tech companies and industries who service them (lawyers, consultants, etc.) and for people who can make money through investing.

That economy fared far better under Bush--at least the parts coupled to venture capital. But Clinton really started it. It's really too bad Obama can't take a page from Clinton's book. But that would mean getting a Randian sort of Fed Chief back instead of Ben Bukkake (who, BTW had better stay away from LA now).

Roberto said...

Dante: " Opportunities for the kids? Not so great."

Tell them to get off their asses and get a job.

Pull themselves up by their bootstraps!!

Accept nothing from the government...from anybody!!

If they fail...it's your fault for being a Republican.

Chip Ahoy said...

The Colorado pot people I spoke with got into the business because of their affection for growing pot and they're doing so well that wealth from that activity followed but it is a lot of very hard work also.

But the Aerogarden guy is different. I though he developed the Aerogarden company from his love for hydroponics and I thought his idea was a similar lifelong fulfillment as with the pot people but that was wrong, he was interested in growing a company, selling it and profiting. No love atoll.

Same with the bison-hide shoe company. Great shoe company. No love. Sold for profit.

So my money making anecdotes have opposites where cash flow occurs by dint of force and determination and not just naturally by pursuing activities.

coketown said...

There's only been a few comments out of the opulent Queen Ann that made me roll my eyes and think, "Yeah, toots, if I were tenured and my income was grossly distorted because of government influence, I could say that, too!"

One was buying an iPad and then saying it just sits in the corner collecting dust. Sounds like she uses it a lot more now. But they're so heavy! Maybe she shouldn't use it so much. The new iPad mini is actually a lot more comfortable to use.

The other way the frivolous way she said, "Would I spent [some obscene amount] on a coat? Maybe!"

Get over yourself, honey.

But other than that, no. She lives the same lifestyle as my parents, which is: work a long time at one job, work less when you're nearing retirement, live comfortably ever after.

Obviously it's a tough illusion to pretend your care about the economy/economic hardship of others when you're posting to your blog all day and reading frivolous things online. But she doesn't pretend to care about the economy, so it's all good!

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

I do think blaming Obama isn't going to help anyone.

After Bill Clinton said that oral sex was not sex... I read reports of a common occurrence among adolescents - they called it getting a Lewinsky.

Whatever Obama says that his throng of adoring fans understand... that stays with them and bears fruit.

Something about bread alone but of every word that comes out of the mouth of the one.

Roberto said...

Coketown: On the nosey.

Farmer said...

Dante said...
Maybe you should work a little harder, then you can afford your own kick-ass jib.

I should have added "This message intentionally left bank."

I'm doing fine financially, thanks. Opportunities for the kids? Not so great.


The successful make their own opportunities. When the going gets tough and all that.

Chip Ahoy said...

I liked the story of the kids selling coffee to people waiting in line to vote early in the morning. They had adult assist, but there you go, early in the morning because the kids saw opportunity and enthusiastically pursued it.

test said...

chickelit said...
The "new" economy is good for people who work in tech companies and industries who service them (lawyers, consultants, etc.) and for people who can make money through investing.

That economy fared far better under Bush--at least the parts coupled to venture capital. But Clinton really started it.


The people who invented and developed internet technology started it. The goddamn politicians didn't do shit.

Roberto said...

Lem - You're full of shit.

Steve Austin said...

"No Country for Old Men." That will be the theme of the next decade. The Althouse character will play a role in the production.

Not Althouse specifically but what will end up being the flash point are the very large guaranteed defined benefit pension plan that many public sector workers have.

Up until recently, most old people worked hard, saved some money and used SS to retire if not in comfort, at least not in hardship. Many had some type of guaranteed benefit pension plan from the old line industrial employers like US Steel, GM, etc.

But now most of us are off in the world of 401(k) plans with little corporate funding towards them and no guarantees as to what type of nest egg might exist at retirement. And with a stock market that by all accounts really hasn't grown in a decade and bond and CD yields at zero thanks to Obama's fed there is little path for many of us to get the type of pension that the public workers especially here in Wisconsin have.

In the meantime, the demographic wave is coming as the baby boomers start to retire.

The retirement crisis is coming. The public workers who can retire at 55-60 with little concerns as to their income security in retirement will need to watch their backs. They will be next in the have v. have not war that Obama has encouraged. We've seen the start of it here in Wisconsin the past two years.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, FWIW my own first thought about your post was that you were saying "let them eat cake." I appreciate that you and Meade would like to hunker down and maximize your free time and freedom, generally.

I don't mean to be critical, but it would have been better to be a little more diplomatic. A businessperson reading your blog who is hanging on by fingernails hoping for a new president with a sane economic policy would certainly feel a degree of dispair that you and Meade are insulated from. I fear that sequestration will force me into early retirement, so I'm viewing the future with a degree of trepidation myself, trepidation that a tenured professor probably has no feeling for. (I have no confidence whatsoever in Obama's assertion that it will not happen.)

So don't be so hard on your commenters. A few of us are already feeling pain, and others will certainly feel pain. Your reference to gardens came across as a bit heartless.

Roberto said...

Marshall - "The goddamn politicians didn't do shit."

If that's the case, why are you blaming Obama or telling us Romney would do much better?

Name the last hugely successful businessman who was elected president...and did a good job.

Chip Ahoy said...

Kids waking up early in the morning, themselves no doubt would vote for Obama, too naive to understand they're also voting away their future and their freedom but feeling fine anyway because they have crapass universal healthcare that appears to be just fine and never actually feeling the burden of sixteen to twenty trillion dollars of national debt, or understanding it. Somebody else did that.

Roberto said...

Big Mike: "A businessperson reading your blog who is hanging on by fingernails hoping for a new president with a sane economic policy..."

When you run across the specifics of Romney's actual "plan or policy"...could you post it for everybody?

Roberto said...

Chipper - What the fuck do YOU know about anything relating to politics or economics?

How do YOU know what will happen over the coming years? Where were YOU when Bush walked out the door...leaving behind 10.7 trillion in debt? Or a worldwide economic meltdown?

Did you invest a massive amount of money in the stock market...before it doubled under Obama?

Duh.

Seven Machos said...

Duh.

Oh my God. Jeremy the Troll has returned.

bagoh20 said...

" Jeremy the Troll has returned."

My immediate impression as well.

Farmer said...

Big Mike said...
@Althouse, FWIW my own first thought about your post was that you were saying "let them eat cake." I appreciate that you and Meade would like to hunker down and maximize your free time and freedom, generally.

I don't mean to be critical, but it would have been better to be a little more diplomatic. A businessperson reading your blog who is hanging on by fingernails hoping for a new president with a sane economic policy would certainly feel a degree of dispair that you and Meade are insulated from. I fear that sequestration will force me into early retirement, so I'm viewing the future with a degree of trepidation myself, trepidation that a tenured professor probably has no feeling for. (I have no confidence whatsoever in Obama's assertion that it will not happen.)

So don't be so hard on your commenters. A few of us are already feeling pain, and others will certainly feel pain. Your reference to gardens came across as a bit heartless.


Heartless? You sweethearts couldn't stop sputtering maniacal, saliva-drenched invective about the lazy, entitled union thug teachers of Wisconsin in the recall election. Now you're whining about diplomacy and asking to be treated with kid gloves? You've got to be fucking kidding me, pal. Suck it up and act like a man for God's sake.

chickelit said...

@Marshall: I was talking about the lawyers and consultants--not the inventors. However, now that you mention it, the Bayh-Dole Act of 1980 did a lot for the letter.

But I know what you mean.

test said...

Roberto said...
Marshall - "The goddamn politicians didn't do shit."

If that's the case, why are you blaming Obama or telling us Romney would do much better?


So you think because politicians didn't create a boom in one decade no economic or fiscal policy has any effect on anything? I hope everyone sees what sorts of things you have to believe before leftism makes sense.

Roberto said...

The Farmer - You're actually asking these right wing cretins to "suck it up???"

Their entire reason for living is to whine and bitch about anyting relating to President Obama, and of course, anybody who disagrees with them.

This is a one-trick pony operation with Althouse and Needy as the ringleaders.

chickelit said...

Oh my God. Jeremy the Troll has returned.

Telltale manners. I really don't get why he bothers with costume changes. I mean, does it add mystique to the mistake?

Dante said...

The successful make their own opportunities. When the going gets tough and all that.

Now, why didn't I think of that? Essentially, encapsulated in that idea, is that despite the handicaps, government is powerless to level the playing field.

Anyway, it's true what you are saying. A chained slave has some chance, it's just smaller, and the rewards of success are lessened.

A car with the brakes on can continue to accelerate (unless those brakes are on hard).

It's possible to run up a hill at the same speed one could walk on level ground.

In japan, even, they make a game of seeing how much weight a man can hang from his penis.

All of these things are fun to some people, but I would rather not be a slave and be successful, I would rather make the best speed I can on level ground, and I would rather use my arms to lift weights.

Normally, I would say "Help yourself to these things," but unfortunately some people feel it is their right to force others to drive with brakes on, ...

Seven Machos said...

Do not feed the trolls, people. Do not feed the ones who dishonestly change their names all the time, particularly. That's bad faith.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Chip saying "dont read this" is like telling the driver... oh my god... please keep your eyes on the road.

But I do understand why you said "dont read this".

Roberto said...

Marshal - My point is directed at the majority here who whine on a regular basis about how Obama is destroying the entire universe, while at the same time touting Mittons as the economic saviour.

Clinton certainly didn't "create" the economic boom...but he was at the helm when it occurred.

Just as G. W. was sitting at the desk when things turned to shit...but you'd never know it by visiting this wingnut circus.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Seven:
Speaking of lousy predictions, what the hell happened yesterday? I thought you just about guaranteed a Romney win and I was on board with it!

Roberto said...

Seven - You're idea of a "troll," just as most others here...is ANYBODY who disagrees.

Just read through the comments...there is little if any debate or discussion...95% of it is people like YOU sucking up to anybody who they think is on their side.

And of course, you always have your constant whining and bitching about anyting related to the president.



I'm Full of Soup said...

Chip has shown, with his 5-6 examples, that he knows a lot more about economics and human behavior than Obama and his entire cabinet.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

All of which is precisely why I am daydreaming today about going Galt.

It's hard not to say Fuck.It.All. and walk away from the taxes, from the complications, from the bureaucracy, from the nanny state meddling, from the headaches, from the attempts at social indoctrination, from the failures of our leaders.

We have very little cash, but if we cashed out the 401(k) and the kids' college accounts and sold the house, we'd have a few dozen grand. Enough to quit our jobs, buy a wee cabin somewhere, move our books there, and call it a day. Come down off the mountain if we needed serious medical care (they can't deny it to you under Obamacare, can they?). Spend the rest of our lives growing our garden of hens and vegetables and children and teaching them about God, self-reliance and Western civilization, so they have some skills to be leaders when the rebuilding begins after our current arrangement slams into the mountain.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Look Roberto I agree Obama won fair and square yesterday and the people have spoken when they re-elected maybe the worst & most unqualified president in history.

Michael K said...

"
Name the last hugely successful businessman who was elected president...and did a good job."

George Washington. He was probably the richest man in the country. Jefferson died in debt.

Roberto said...

For a bunch of people who spend their lives hanging out at on a site like this, touting their expertise in all matters of politics, economics and of course, the way real Americans should behave and live their own lives...you sure missed out with your predictions of a massive Romney victory last night.

And now we get the full on crybaby treatment.

What a shock.

Farmer said...

Dante said...
The successful make their own opportunities. When the going gets tough and all that.

Now, why didn't I think of that? Essentially, encapsulated in that idea, is that despite the handicaps, government is powerless to level the playing field.

Anyway, it's true what you are saying. A chained slave has some chance, it's just smaller, and the rewards of success are lessened.

A car with the brakes on can continue to accelerate (unless those brakes are on hard).

It's possible to run up a hill at the same speed one could walk on level ground.

In japan, even, they make a game of seeing how much weight a man can hang from his penis.

All of these things are fun to some people, but I would rather not be a slave and be successful, I would rather make the best speed I can on level ground, and I would rather use my arms to lift weights.

Normally, I would say "Help yourself to these things," but unfortunately some people feel it is their right to force others to drive with brakes on, ...


Good God. Your children are slaves now? This is your idea of a post overflowing with content? A lot of self-pitying drama about being enslaved by the big bad government? Stop whining and live your life, man.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

All of which is precisely why I am daydreaming today about going Galt.

The operative word there is... daydreaming... i hope?

Roberto said...

Michael K - And that's my point.

You had to turn back the pages about 225 years to come up with...George Washington.

But Mittons was going to save the entire world!!

Yeah, right.

Farmer said...

My eyes have been opened. When other people's pocketbooks are being raided by the GOP, fuck 'em, they're lazy, entitled union thugs. But when your guy doesn't get elected, OH MY GOD, the sky is falling, I'm going to go live on a mountain, and Althouse, stop talking about your iPad, it's making me feel bad about myself!

Apparently when push comes to shove, conservatives are gigantic pussies.

Seven Machos said...

AJ -- I was wrong. I have never been wrong about a presidential election before, not since I first foresaw a Regan victory when I was four years old.

This time, I was just wrong. I'm not sure how to explain it yet, and I'll be thinking about it in the coming weeks and months. My initial observation would be that Romney was too much in the middle and just not electrifying. Immigration may have played a part. I think these two yokel Senate candidates who spoke so insultingly about rape played a part.

But, as I say, I don't have an answer. I was crushed for about an hour last night, but then I figured I better motivate and move forward. Youth and black hair are fleeting, after all.

The world isn't going to end. It never does.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Good mea culpa buddy.

Seven Machos said...

It does suck here to have wade through all these silly trolls today also.

These people are obviously morally stunted social lepers. How else to explain the mentality of visiting a website the day after your presidential candidate won to call people you disagree with terrible names? What sad, small lives these trolls certainly lead.

Roberto said...

AJ Lynch - Sorry, Dude...but presidential historians have already put their money on quite possibly "the worst & most unqualified president in history"...and you voted for him...twice.

*A 2006 Siena College poll of 744 professors reported the following results: "George W. Bush has just finished five years as President. If today were the last day of his presidency, how would you rank him? The responses were: Great: 2%; Near Great: 5%; Average: 11%; Below Average: 24%; Failure: 58%."

Read more...post uninformed right wing drivel less.

coketown said...

Roberto said...

Coketown: On the nosey.


Um. No. I happen to like Althouse a lot, and if I ever criticize her it's in the most civil way possible. Or pointing out something quite ridiculous. I think even she would agree it's silly to spend obscene amounts of money on one coat, or buy a +$500 device to only let it sit around collecting dust.

So, no, it wasn't "on the nosey." More like "good natured slug on the arm."

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Farmer I believe you are oversimplifying a collection of things there.

Not to mention, what I'm assuming is your definition of a conservative is... (and thats probably my bad English)

Anonymous said...

"Apparently when push comes to shove, conservatives are gigantic pussies."

11/7/12 4:54 PM

Appears so. But Meth saying he is leaving the country for Canada, was the highlight of my night, next to Obama winning.

Bon Voyage Meth!

Seven Machos said...

From Tucker Carlson today, currently front-paged at The Daily Caller:

But it was a flawed candidacy from the start. Romney’s caution and ever-shifting policy positions made him seem fearful, which is to say weak. His biography hurt him. During a cycle when voters remained angry at Wall Street, Romney bore the weight of a finance background. And because of his own history in Massachusetts, he could never effectively go after President Obama on Obamacare, the president’s biggest political weakness.

None of this was ever a secret, but the Republicans nominated Romney anyway. They had no choice. The alternatives were unacceptable.

gadfly said...

Gosh - Jeffrey's income envy comes straight from the Marxist party line that is the Democrats.

So Jeffrey has but two choices - look for government handouts and freebies or get another job (either a new higher paying job or supplement his current job income with a second job.)

So there you have my advice and "Hands Up" tip of the day! Now it is Jeffrey's turn to turn Jeffrey around.

Farmer said...

Lem said...
Farmer I believe you are oversimplifying a collection of things there.


I learned it from watching you.

Farmer said...

The collective "you," that is.

bagoh20 said...

I got a bad news for the envious: Getting rich does not really change much. If you are envious, you still will be. If you don't know how to enjoy life with what you have you still won't.

I actually had a much more fun and leisurely life back when I was flat broke. It wasn't until I started making a comfortable living that I got too busy to enjoy myself.

Even when I had a family to raise, but much less money than now, I travelled more, I partied more, I laughed more.

The best thing about having money is being able to give it away, to use it to help other people, to get rid of it.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

I'm not sure how to explain it yet,

Me neither.

I thought we were do for a "course correction" to use and abuse Wall St lingo.

All the "fundamentals" said Obama didnt have a prayer.

But there is something else at play here that got me puzzled.

Phil 314 said...

For you Chip

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

I'm a little surprised at the idea that someone in their 20's is doomed to a life of want and financial paucity. There are three guys in their 20's at my workplace. I'm guessing that they make between $15-20/hr. They have 1-2 years of community college. Every one of them owns a nice house of recent build (the upside of the downturn). They all drive late model cars and trucks (all bought used). They own flatties and decent furniture but are not otherwise aquisitive. They're all steadily (but not extravagantly) building their 401K's. Beyond house and car payments they're all aggressive about not assuming debt.
It's funny that three such fincially prudent young men should be in the same place. I guess my point is that, even though they lack college degrees (and the accompanying loans)they enjoy a very comfortable standard of living due to showing up for work everyday and excercising a little commom sense.

Anonymous said...

Gadfly, Jeffery is a conservative.

Farmer said...

There was pretty much nothing wrong with Romney's campaign. He started out to the right, saying a bunch of crap he didn't believe to get the base going, then veered to the center to pick up people like me.

The interesting thing is that turnout for him was lower than it was for McCain, but then turnout was lower overall. Still, a bunch of people who normally would vote for a Republican candidate weren't voting for him. My guess is the ones who stayed home didn't like his Mormonism and/or his pretty obvious lack of interest in promoting any sort of anti-gay marriage or anti-abortion agenda. Plus more young peopled turned out and voted in high numbers for Obama because gays and vaginas.

DADvocate said...

let us cultivate our garden

A rather Zen like statement.

Rabel said...

Erika wrote:

"Come down off the mountain if we needed serious medical care (they can't deny it to you under Obamacare, can they?)."

You'll have to buy an insurance policy, but unless your poultry and vegetable enterprise is unusually successful it will be fully subsidized by taxes paid by income earners and federal borrowing.

Obamacare will pay for John Galt's healthcare. Cool.

Toad Trend said...

Chip, Erika, good posts. Like the cut(s) of your jibs!!!

I too don't care about what other people do with what money they have. And people that take the time to defend what they do with their money are just feeding trolls.

As far as talk of a fiscal cliff, I for one am willing to prepare for this, and the failure/default and subsequent suffering so we can start over. To think there will ever be lasting, meaningful agreement at this juncture between the 2 parties is unicorn-chasing.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Oh, and Inga, Obama can win elections from here to the crack of doom and you'll still have the IQ of ice water.

Seven Machos said...

I guess what today is and the coming days at Althouse will be, is angry twits on both sides yelling and screaming: tales told by idiots, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

Rise above your unhappy losses, fellow conservatives. And liberals: rise above your strange, sorry, sad, apparently hollow unhappy victories.

Please.

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

On the Diane Reims show on NPR they were discussing what demographics went for who in the race. It may have been Kohut who said that the independents broke for Romney. I suppose your readers have been somewhat spoiled in thinking that you represented the decisive electorate, giving you periodic abusive for having voted for Obama in 08. We have been following an independent voter, crruel neutrality, but even that level of sadism doesn't, it turns out, necessarily win the election.

Farmer said...

bagoh20 said...
I got a bad news for the envious: Getting rich does not really change much. If you are envious, you still will be. If you don't know how to enjoy life with what you have you still won't.


Amen, brother. Some of the most miserable people I know are rich, and almost all of them worry about money constantly.

Anonymous said...

When I walked into my polling place in deep red Waukesha County and it was almost empty I got the feeling then that something was off. It was packed during the Walker recall vote. I suspect that some of the religious right couldn't pull the lever for Romney.

bagoh20 said...

"Name the last hugely successful businessman who was elected president...and did a good job."

Name the last author with no accomplishments in life who was elected President, and then rehired because he was so bad at it.

Why would a successful businessman want to be President of a dysfunctional organization, that exists to lose money, where no one is accountable?

Farmer said...

I don't know Inga, you know better than me but I always thought Waukesha County was more fiscal conservative territory than social.

Farmer said...

bagoh20 said...
Why would a successful businessman want to be President of a dysfunctional organization, that exists to lose money, where no one is accountable?


Because Air Force One is the most awesome plane in the world, for one thing.

Farmer said...

Even Romney couldn't afford a plane that bad-ass. Not to mention, everybody else has to get the hell out of your way.

Anonymous said...

Broomhandle, sore loser. Makes me happy to know how you in particular are hurting today, some of the other conservatives here I do sincerely feel bad for, but not you, you deserve every failure that happens to you in life and I know there have been plenty.

Anonymous said...

True, plenty of fiscal conservatives, but plenty of evangelicals also.

X said...

Duh.

there is nothing sadder than a community college instructor with blog envy. what's up Gene?

Seven Machos said...

I suspect that some of the religious right couldn't pull the lever for Romney.

They had no reason to. I was utterly wrong that an election can be won on economic issues when economic issues are obviously paramount.

It certainly did not help that down-ballot conservatives were inept and just saying really dumb shit. Those people, who do care about social issues, made the case in the most awkward and just sloppy way possible. They alienated centrists without exciting evangelicals.

And, of course, Barack Obama is the luckiest man alive, and obviously a man after God's heart. I look at that as a positive for us as a country.

Robert Cook said...

"With Obama as President, there will be more real struggles than there otherwise would have been."

No, it would be equally as bad, or worse, if Romney had won.

Robert Cook said...

"Name the last author with no accomplishments in life who was elected President, and then rehired because he was so bad at it."

That noted author of war stories, George W. Bush.

gadfly said...

Seven Machos said:

None of this was ever a secret, but the Republicans nominated Romney anyway. They had no choice. The alternatives were unacceptable.

We most certainly did have acceptable choices - especially one with name recognition ranked well ahead of all other candidates, including Romney. More importantly she had already run the vetting gauntlet.

We lost the election on October 11, 2011, when Sarah Palin gave up the ghost because establishment Republicans did not find her moderate enough.

It is one thing to fight the opposition but it impossible to fight the "whose turn it is it this year" machine politician moderates in your own party.

Seven Machos said...

Gadfly -- Palin did not run for president. You should perhaps blame Palin for that, not Romney or anyone else.

Otherwise, you seem to have reading comprehension problems of a terrible kind. I didn't say what you are responding to. Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel did.

AllenS said...

I did hard physical work all of my life to make a living, and the last full year I worked, I made $38,500. I've always lived within my means and enjoyed learning how to do most things so I didn't have to hire someone. I know a lot of people who made 2, 3 times more money than I ever made and they have never been happy. Envy is a waste of time.

jr565 said...
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bagoh20 said...

I really think it's about time we stop blaming guys in D.C. for our own fuck ups. We pick em, we hire em, we tell em what we want. Then when that wish list ruins us we blame them for giving it to us. "We didn't know we had to pay for stuff."

Robert Cook said...

"Come down off the mountain if we needed serious medical care (they can't deny it to you under Obamacare, can they?)"

Why not? Obamneycare just mandates that you have to buy private insurance or be penalized, (with a fine or tax penalty of some kind). Obamneycare doesn't provide taxpayer paid medical care, as a national Medicare system would.

They might provide you with medical care--or not--but they would bill you for it.

Many people today with health insurance they've bought and paid for still go bankrupt due to medical expenses their insurers won't cover.

Seven Machos said...

Many people today with health insurance they've bought and paid for still go bankrupt due to medical expenses their insurers won't cover.

The unicorns should pay for it with their rainbow money-printing press.

bagoh20 said...

"Obamneycare doesn't provide taxpayer paid medical care, as a national Medicare system would."

No wonder you make no sense. You really buy into the craziest stuff, like National medicare will treat you no matter what you need, and they will do it when you need it. That's just silly fantasy. By necessity, all health care is rationed in one way or another. In a private system you decide by how much you are willing to pay. In a public system they decide by how much they are willing to pay.

jr565 said...

INga wrote:
Broomhandle, sore loser. Makes me happy to know how you in particular are hurting today, some of the other conservatives here I do sincerely feel bad for, but not you, you deserve every failure that happens to you in life and I know there have been plenty.

Inga, don't feel bad for conservatives. Feel bad for the country. Obamas stewardship has been a disaster for poor people and democrats sold them out for party loyalty to keep the misery going for another 4 years. GRanted, it's theoretically possible that Obama will reverse course, but based on what I've seen on him he seems wedded to his ideology rather than common sensical solutions to grow business and thus create jobs.
Dems like yourself used scare tactics on non existent war on women issues to divert from the real issue that people are facing (many of them women) which is the economy>
But Republicans lost an election. THey'll be pissed for a few days, and then get back on the horse and continue hammering OBama and the dems.
IT happens. Democrats lost an election in 2000 and then despite hating Bush with a passion and being convinced he stole the previous election got shelacked AGAIN! ANd then dems lost the House when there was a resurgence after Obama started raising the debt in ways taht would make George Bush blush. THen there was this election
Both parties have to recognize that just because they win an election today it doesn't mean that the other party is done, or that their fortunes wont change back a few years later.
IT's a pendulum, back and forth.
Besides, Obama will FINALLY have to run on his record. DEmocrats will finally have to produce a budget. There is no third term for Barack Obama. Who's on deck, Joe Biden? Hillary Clinton?

tiger said...


Meanwhile, you grouse about your life, the only life you have.


Written like a person is well-off in their life, emotionally and financially.

And still it sounds witchy.

Look, Professor: We all make choices in our lives and for the most part I don't think they go the way we would like.

Your's did.
Congratulations, seriously.
And consider yourself 'lucky'.
Now stop being smug about it

jr565 said...

Now this conversation assumes that one earns enough money to meet basic needs at their truly basic. Some people don't. They may have sick relatives who they must subsidize. They may not have the intelligence to work anything beyond menial jobs. They may have been abandoned by a spouse. They may not be able to find work of any kind. Or something else. Or all of these.

Another thank-you to Freeman. This is something too often missing in conservative and libertarian talk. And, in fact, they often seem to say that there are no natural-born “losers” in life, that everyone just needs to tug on those bootstraps and all will be well. But there are losers and life gets very, very tough for them in a bad economy and even worse in an inflationary one.




While all of this certainly may be true, what do you expect the safety net to do for endemic problems like this? The safety net can provide food stamps, basic sustenance, not sustain a guy and his family who doesn't have training or skills for life. And even if it does, he's going to get the bare minimum to help him. We don't have a safety net that will solve endemic poverty and give people all housing and shelter and enough money to meet all their needs.
And a safety net that grows so large that we are borrowing spending 75% - 95% of every dollar we put into the treasury on (which is fincanced essentially with a credit card)is not safety net. It's a net that we're ensared in and will pull us under.
I'm certainly not one to say there should be NO safety net. But if we end up looking like California or Greece then there's something wrong
If you are living indvidually on borrowed money and maxed out credit cards and you keep putting in 75% of your money into interest payments just to pay for your basics that is an example of someone who does not have his financial house in order.
If a business does the same then that's a business that will not be in business long. They might be able to hide the losses in the books or fudge the numbers, but eventually the bill comes due. In the case of businesses or individuals though, there is usually some accountability. In the case of govt though, there's none.
Ever politician knows that entitlements are basically going to destroy us, and OBama is promising to cut the deficit in half. Meanwhile they can't even cut funding to PBS without charges that people hate the poor or are racist or monsters. Obama promised to slash the deficit in half instead he quadrupled it. And if he actually wants to get anything done he'll have to spend trillions more to feed his legacy.

There is nothing free. THose things govt is giving away, are in fatt coming out of peoples pockets, not growing on trees.

WHy is it so wrong to demand that govt be accountable for its spending? since they are after all spending OUR money.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Jr. Again De Nile is a river. There were real fears and real threats that the Personhood Bills would pass a Republican House and Senate and be signed b a Republican President such as Romney, also the Supreme Court seats that will be be vacant soon played a real role in how women voted.

But keep denying it was real, keep losing Presidential elections. Keep veering yet even further to the right. Reject your moderates.


Big Mike said...

@Farmer, in my older son's 13 years of public schooling he had precisely 5 good teachers, his kindergarten teacher, one in middle school, and three in high school. And a latina was given the principal's job during his senior year of high school and ran off the three good teachers.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for teachers; most of them are barely qualified to be baggers at a grocery store.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Inga,
Keep cashing those welfare checks with one hand and fending off Child Protective Services with the other. Forward!

Anonymous said...

Broomhandle, I'm comfortably retired and my kids are grown, happy and healthy and successful, unlike you and your offspring, poor things.

Farmer said...

Big Mike said...
Don't ask me to feel sorry for teachers; most of them are barely qualified to be baggers at a grocery store.


No problem - just quit asking us to feel sorry for you, ya big baby.

Rabel said...

Robert Cook:

"Why not? Obamneycare just mandates that you have to buy private insurance or be penalized, (with a fine or tax penalty of some kind). Obamneycare doesn't provide taxpayer paid medical care, as a national Medicare system would."

Under her stated conditions, Erika would be eligible for free Medicaid coverage. So you're right in that respect - she would get coverage from Medicaid not Obamacare. However, your statement disregards the generous Obamacare subsidies for earners below 400% of the federal poverty level.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

How do you kill an infant in moderation?

Dont answer that... You won.

Rabel said...

And speaking of cultivating the garden, the anti-environment and anti-native-American voters of San Francisco decided that they like water and will not drain the Hetch Hetchy valley. 77% against.

Gaia weeps.

Known Unknown said...

There were real fears and real threats that the Personhood Bills would pass a Republican House and Senate and be signed b a Republican President such as Romney, also the Supreme Court seats that will be be vacant soon played a real role in how women voted.

I'm Pro Choice and I think this is a bit paranoid.

mccullough said...

Looks like Obama got fewer votes than W. in 2004

Romney got fewer votes than McCain in 2008

McCain in 2008 got more votes than Kerry in 2004.

Romney will get near Kerry's 2004 total.

So this race is pretty much 2004, with actually a little less turnout (some may be Hurricane related although turnout was down across the board).

The lesson to learn is not to run someone from Massachusetts against an incumbent President.

Tina Trent said...

Since the subject has been raised, by her, Althouse probably make $150,000+ a year teaching one or two (at most three) classes a semester with summers off. That's hardly full-time work for full-time pay, and there is no need to judge lifestyle choices pro or con in order to justify criticizing the racket of higher education, particularly at public universities. This is doubly so when the professor in question claims to be a libertarian, as is the case with some other famed tenured bloggers quietly blowing smoke around the subject of their own supping at the taxpayer teat while railing about other forms of public employment.

Not so long ago, academics worked full-time in the classroom for far less inflated rates -- far less inflated because guaranteed student loans didn't exist to make academia into the giant taxpayer-subsidized candy pull for wankers it is today.

This type of reimbursement is supposed to be justified by ongoing academic research productivity, a pathetic claim given any one of the realities of academic publication.

It takes ignorance or lack of scruples to claim that tenured academics -- including lawyers -- have made any sort of financial sacrifice to free up all that time to bobble around smelling flowers.

Is it nice to smell flowers? Sure. But to be even gently scolded about lifestyle choices by a representative of the one profession in the United States that could not keep its extraordinary perks without creating a peon class of temp workers out of their own peers -- nor keep those privileges without sustaining a ponzi deal with the taxpayers who shoulder the student loan pyramid -- is one daffodil-dappled bridge too far.

It's hardly class envy or creeping socialism to raise the subject of too-generous reimbursement for public servants in these strapped times: it is a central theme of this blog.

Michael said...

Poor Obama. He now has to go to work. No more flying here and there. No more running for a second term. He was quite a good and sucessful campaigner. Now we will see if he is an executive. He has that little brochure with his plan for the second term plus re-promises to heal the wounds he has himself created. Poor Obama. To work to work you go. No need for more speeches. No more school gyms. Work work work. To get those jobs.

Sorry about the market today, boss. Its just not that into you any more.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

EMD, well then here were millions of women with the same paranoia, that helped win this election for the President.

Michael said...

Inga. I do hope you are wrong about that. I do not believe women are that dumb.

Michael said...
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Known Unknown said...

EMD, well then here were millions of women with the same paranoia, that helped win this election for the President.

Suffrage?

or

Suffer-age?

Anonymous said...
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Dante said...

Good God. Your children are slaves now? This is your idea of a post overflowing with content? A lot of self-pitying drama about being enslaved by the big bad government? Stop whining and live your life, man.

I said this? I don't think so.

See, you said that it doesn't matter if things are tougher, successful people will find a way. Or people striving for success, or some such claptrap.

No, Farmer, it doesn't always work out that way.

Anonymous said...

I do believe some men are dumb enough to believe it was all about the economy for the conservatives, it wasn't. It was about social issues in the House and the state Republican held legislatures around the country since 2010. Deny all you want, stay in denial, it's better for us women.

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:
Jr. Again De Nile is a river. There were real fears and real threats that the Personhood Bills would pass a Republican House and Senate and be signed b a Republican President such as Romney,

We're talking about MItt Romney here. I don't know if you're aware ,but Conservatives have been on the record questioning how pro life Romney actually is. That's one of the issues he's supposedly waffled on. Ryan was more extreme on abortion, but Romney already said that he wouldn't restrict abortion for women in cases of rape or incest.

Robert Cook said...

"However, your statement disregards the generous Obamacare subsidies for earners below 400% of the federal poverty level."

How generous? Enough to induce one to voluntarily keep oneself in a state of poverty on the chance that one might have to seek medical care...eventually?

After all, we know how generous other government welfare benefits are...not.

Anonymous said...

Romney was a flp flopper extraordinaire, he would do whatever he thought beneficial to himself when the time came, in other words, he couldn't be trusted.

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:
But keep denying it was real, keep losing Presidential elections. Keep veering yet even further to the right. Reject your moderates.

I will certainly agree that the guy saying rape is god's plan (or whatever his wording) really put his foot in his mouth and good thing he lost. But, he wasn't Romney. And just because he is in the republican party doens't mean that Romney and he were tied at the hip, though you guys sure tried to make th linkage.

Known Unknown said...

It was about social issues in the House and the state Republican held legislatures around the country since 2010. Deny all you want, stay in denial, it's better for us women.


I'm pro-choice, and even I know how to prioritize.

Fuck the future!



jr565 said...
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Epiphyte - said...

Sitting around pining over the fact that someone else gets more extras than you do is good evidence of some pretty serious character flaws - and I say that as someone who lives in a 50k house, drives a 12 year old car and has neither cable nor a cell phone - all of which are a direct consequence of MY decision (no one else's) to live more frugally in exchange for greater freedom. You want the same? Structure your life to make it so.

SGT Ted said...

"but comparing what you have to what other people have is, unless they have stolen from you, foolish." -Althouse

Yes, thats my thought as well. It leads to envy and greed and ultimately hate. It's why I reject class warfare. Envy, hate and greed drive it.

Anonymous said...

Once again, Jr. It did not matter what Romney said, his actions showed that he was not to be trusted to stay true to his word. He was a opportunistic man, who would flip flop if it benefitted him at the time. He could play let's make a deal with the Congress, "I'll sign your Personhood Law, if you approve my budget", or some similar scenario.

Obama got 55 % of women's votes for a good reason.

Rabel said...

Robert Cook:

"How generous? Enough to induce one to voluntarily keep oneself in a state of poverty on the chance that one might have to seek medical care...eventually?"

The instant question was your assertion that Obamacare would not pay for Erika's healthcare.

The issue you raise of the extent to which the dole encourages dependency is off point.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
I do believe some men are dumb enough to believe it was all about the economy for the conservatives, it wasn't. It was about social issues in the House and the state Republican held legislatures around the country since 2010. Deny all you want, stay in denial, it's better for us women.

That's pretty stupid, Inga, even for you. Let me parrot it back to you, roles reversed:

I do believe some women are dumb enough to believe it was all about the social issues for the conservatives, but it wasn't. It was about economic issues and the House and the state Republican held legislatures didn't change much since 2010. Some women even think it was more important to get a lesbian into the Senate than to fix the economy. Deny all you want, stay in denial, it's worse for us men and women.

Rusty said...

Dante said...
Farmer Complains about whining:

I'm so tired of hearing people whine about not being able to get jobs out of college. Who told you you were owed a job? Boo hoo. Take your education and knowledge and skills and make something happen.

Get over yourself, Farmer. Almost everything I read from you is your enjoying kicking someone else, or throwing monkey shit around.

Yeah, but he's right.

Gahrie said...

There were real fears and real threats that the Personhood Bills would pass a Republican House and Senate and be signed b a Republican President such as Romney, also the Supreme Court seats that will be be vacant soon played a real role in how women voted.


And we all know that the right to kill our unborn children is really the only issue that matters when you get right down to it.

I'm seriously starting to believe that we need to repeal the 19th Amendment along with the 16th and 17th Amendments when we restore our republic.

jr565 said...

Hey Inga, Speaking of extremism when it comes to Abortion what do you think of this ad for
Obama?

http://www.therightscoop.com/ugh-pro-abortion-ad-uses-little-girls-to-say-vote-for-obama-so-i-can-have-an-abortion-if-i-want-to/

Women's rights are a two way street, as evidenced in this bizarre ad. Because the girls in this ad are basically arguing that Obama should thin about their rights to abort their kids. They are kids. Which would mean they essentially are arguing for their mothers rights to abort them! And they say
"MOmmy I can't vote yet, but you can. So when you go into the voting booth please think about me, your daughter and think about what freedoms I will, or will not have."
THe irony of that is that the mother of these kids thought about what rights these kids should or should not have, and in the case of abortion, can deny girls like these these rights, they are worried about losing when they get older absolutely. THey are frankly lucky their mother didn't excercise the right as otherwise they wouldn't be appearing in their own commercial, because they'd be aborted.
That's not exactly "protecting womens rights".
If you look at China where women are being aborted predomninatly because China doens't value women, they are the instrument of their own destruction. Howe are they protcting girls rights if they are killing those girls? (and boys).

Dante said...

Deny all you want, stay in denial, it's better for us women.

Why is it Democrats feel it is OK to take a swipe at at you AND make sexist/racist comments at the same time, and expect you to say "Oh, you were right!"

An amazingly confused bunch of unprincipled, undisciplined people.

Rusty said...

ChipA is my new hero.
I want to be like him when I get big.

Anonymous said...

Chickelit, we won the election, how much longer are you conservative men stupidly going to deny what was happening in the state legislatures and the House since 2010.

And conservative women are even dumber if that's possible.

So Chickie fuck off.

jr565 said...

INga wrote:
Obama got 55 % of women's votes for a good reason.

And Romney got 45% of the women's vote. The difference is not that great. And at any rate, not all of that ten percent differnnce is in fact voting because of their uterus or specifically because of womens issues.
The irony in all of this is that you INga in fact think that every abortion is a murder. NOt all 55% of women voting for Obama who are pro choice do. In fact most wouldnt' characterize their actions that way. You though would.

Toad Trend said...

"He was a opportunistic man, who would flip flop if it benefitted him at the time."

OK I can't let this go unanswered.

This 'statement' can aptly describe any number of hucksters, thieves, pickpockets or politicians of every persuasion.

Nothing to see here.

Anonymous said...

And Chickelit, don't ever try to engage me in any type of comment or discussion, I'm done with you entirely, you have proven yourself to be a huge jerk.

chickelit said...

I'm so tired of hearing people whine about not being able to get jobs out of college. Who told you you were owed a job? Boo hoo. Take your education and knowledge and skills and make something happen.

This only became a real concern for them because of the enormous debt they bear. In the good old days, the UW-Madison could afford to subsidize much more of the tutition. But higher salaries and especially bloated university administrations demanded the money come from somewhere.

What I'm curious about is whether Law School enrollments will actually decrease. There are usually far more applicants than spaces, so there is quite a comfortable cushion I'd imagine. Still, the gravy train can't grow forever. At least if there are fewer applicants, there should be fewer administrators required to review them.

chickelit said...

I don't care what you think about me, Inga. You're a fraud. I answer you here for the amusement of myself and others.

chickelit said...

Inga said...
And Chickelit, don't ever try to engage me in any type of comment or discussion, I'm done with you entirely, you have proven yourself to be a huge jerk.

You sound and act like you run this blog...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Yes Don't Tread and that why Romney LOST the election. Do we not want the man who leads this country to be worth trusting? Well, 55 % of women do and did. Even more Latinos, African Americans and Asian Americans.

We ensured Obama's win, because we trust him far more, get it?

jr565 said...

Which means that you think it's in womens interest to kill half a million girls a year, all of whom will therefore be deprived of their reproductive rights and yet somehow pro lifers are the ones doing more damage to women.

Seven Machos said...

Poor Inga, never known for political or economic acumen and stuck blaming Bush for Obama's necessary war in Afghanistan.

But to say, snidely, apparently seriously, that Romney lost because of conservatism on social issues is just the height of wrong. Never in American history has a more socially moderate Republican been the nominee.

And, of course, in addition to the officious proclamations, we have her calling people names the day after a great victory for her side.

Hilarious, and possibly a sign of mental instability, but predictable and it bodes well for the next two years, as the left somehow manages to double down on its leftiness.

P.S.: Republicans own state governments.

Toad Trend said...

"And conservative women are even dumber if that's possible.

So Chickie fuck off."

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Anonymous said...

Stop being a fucking Yenta again. You can talk at me all you want I won't answer you.

Seven Machos said...

You can talk at me all you want I won't answer you.

Irony.

Dante said...

Yeah, but he's right.

He's right about trying to make the best out of your situation. I agree with that. But, to accept the situation, to get over it? Absolutely not. I have individualist ideals that I think make a healthy society, free from the group think of the government. I think these battles have been going on for ages.

Perhaps what we are seeing is another experiment of how man and government can coexist failing. How long the failure will last is anyone's guess. I do not think it will be pretty.

Renee said...

Inga, But isn't the whole 'free birth control' insulting to our intelligence as women in regards to health care? And we fell for it? Well I didn't.


The author is a female medical student...


"If our goal is improved health for Americans, why did we choose to cover hormonal birth control? As a future physician here are a list of medications imperative to patient health that I would rather have the government pay for:

1. Diabetes medications
2. Blood pressure medications
3. Cholesterol medications
4. Antibiotics
5. Routine vaccinations

25.8 million children and adults in the United States (8.3% of the population) have diabetes.

Heart disease continues to be the leading cause of death among men and women in the United States.

Does the Affordable Care Act really care about the health of women? Or does it only care about women’s reproduction? Women are more than their ovaries. I would love to see medications that millions of American lives desperately need and depend on paid for if we’re going to keep using the argument of “healthcare”."

It is embarrassing we're deciding a President based on a freebie, something we as woman should be responsible for ourselves since it is our bodies.

My mother never brought me to the GYN for contraception, but she taught me how to balance a check book and open my OWN line of credit without her. She figured if I could be responsible with me money, I could be responsible with my body.



test said...

Inga said...
Once again, Jr. It did not matter what Romney said, his actions showed that he was not to be trusted to stay true to his word. He was a opportunistic man, who would flip flop if it benefitted him at the time


It's sad that even with the election over the trolls can't move on fom their talking points.

If the left cared about flip flopping, honesty, integrity, or trustworthiness Obama would have been primaried and lost by 50 points.

Anonymous said...

Nope, Seven Machos, he appeared to be a moderate socially, but he was a flp flopper and an opportunist. I said he was not to be trusted to keep is word regarding social issues or ANYTHING else, for that matter.

And where were we discussing the war in Afghanistan?

Anonymous said...

Marshal,

You are every bit as much a troll here as I am, since Althouse is a moderate.

jr565 said...

INga wrote:
Do we not want the man who leads this country to be worth trusting? Well, 55 % of women do and did. Even more Latinos, African Americans and Asian Americans.

We ensured Obama's win, because we trust him far more, get it?

Trust based on what? He made an awful lot of promise about what he woudl do economically which he reneged on. And an awful lot of promises about how to handle to war on terror, which he reneged on.
If Bush had 46 weeks of record unemployment and 2%GDP would you not demand accountability? When it's your side you simply don't.

So Obama can say Bush raising the debt that he raised it to was irresponsible and unpatriotic. An yet Bush raised that in 8 years. Obama raised the debt another 6 trillion in only 4 years, and you nor nearly any other dem call that irresponsible or unpatriotic.
Note he said that Bush raising the debt as much as he did would cost each family 30,000 dollars.
And I bet when he made that point you were like "You tell him Obama. That Bush is so reckless and unpatriotic".
So, you do the math Inga. If raising the debt 4 Trillion costs each family 30,000 what about 6 trillion. Why is that not unpatriotic.
And what's he going to do this term? I suppose you will think that will in fact be PATRIOTIC and RESPONSIBLE of Obama. But Math is still math despite your hypocricy.

And note, you don't trust Romney for thinks you think he might do. I can point to things Obama promised and specifically reneged on.

Seven Machos said...

It's sad that even with the election over the trolls can't move on fom their talking points.

Inga's no troll. Don't confuse left with troll.

Anyway, the rest of what you say is dead on. Inga is representative of the fact that Obama has no platform whatsoever. What's he going to try to do? Who knows?

Better to continue to criticize Romney than face the abyss. Plus, there's the matter of the strange mental imbalance that causes someone whose side won to continue to bitch about the losing side. There's that. But that's endemic to the left right now because of the lack of any agenda.

test said...

Inga said...
And Chickelit, don't ever try to engage me in any type of comment or discussion, I'm done with you entirely, you have proven yourself to be a huge jerk.


Oh no, the troll's blacklist is growing. It makes you wonder when she going to grow up and ...just leave. For a senior citizen she's awfully juvenile.

Seven Machos said...

Inga -- Your flip-flopper argument is viable. You should stick with it. I don't think it's right, necessarily, but it's not fallacious and paradoxical like the sum of the things you have said here.

Anonymous said...

Anyway, I'll let you sad conservatives get on with your wound licking.

Toad Trend said...

"We ensured Obama's win, because we trust him far more, get it?"

Um, sure, you being reduced to your female parts is cool with me but some folks aren't really interested in dating vaginas, they want a real woman attached.

"Madame, I am drunk, and you are ugly, but in the morning, I will be sober." - WC Fields

test said...

Seven Machos said...

Inga's no troll. Don't confuse left with troll.


I'm not confused, she is a troll. She adds nothing, engages nothing. Her only purpose is to interfere with others.

Seven Machos said...

How about: don't confuse asshole with troll. How about that?

test said...

Inga said...
Marshal,

You are every bit as much a troll here as I am, since Althouse is a moderate.


I'd like to say I'm shocked to learn you don't know what a troll is, but why would your ignorance of that be any different from any other subject?

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Never mind that debt, Inga. You just keep on worshipping. Bad faith.

Dante said...

Well, 55 % of women do and did.

That's not saying much for the 55%. At least 45% got it right, along with 60% of whites.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Chip Ahoy said...
"I liked the story of the kids selling coffee to people waiting in line to vote early in the morning. They had adult assist, but there you go, early in the morning because the kids saw opportunity and enthusiastically pursued it."

Those kids should be taxed and regulated out of business. For the common good.

Renee said...

Wound licking?

This is our government, not the World Series or Super Bowl. I do not treat elections, like sports. Not even the local ones.

Dante said...

In a public system they decide by how much they are willing to pay.

There is a capacity problem here. And a demand problem too.

Doesn't it make you feel in control when we yield these decisions to politicians, who can then make decisions based on political forces?

Well, Obama was right about one thing. To some people, the reality isn't as important as the feeling.

Toad Trend said...

It never fails to amaze me what pixie dust, puppy dogs and cherries the left has dreamed up for itself. It really is fantastic.

There, to fulfill all of our wishes.

Known Unknown said...

Those kids should be taxed and regulated out of business.

How do we know their coffee was properly prepared, heated to a safe temperature, and served in acceptable biodegradable 74% recycled material containers?

And was it Fair Trade?

jr565 said...

Obama has already doubled the national debt. He's already spending a trillion more than we take in ever year. There is no way he will not be forced to spend trillions more, unless you think his second term is going to be about gutting his programs.
And he's going to double the national debt yet again. And yet you trust him.
THat reminds me of the woman catching her man in bed with another woman and he says "Who are you going to trust, me or your lying eyes" and she believes him and not her lying eyes.

chickelit said...

Plus, there's the matter of the strange mental imbalance that causes someone whose side won to continue to bitch about the losing side. There's that. But that's endemic to the left right now because of the lack of any agenda.

I think she's just projecting frustration at Congress which remains under Repubican majority. Total control of both Houses and a packed SCOTUS are the gold standard.

bagoh20 said...

Do people on the left ever talk about Obama with any specificity at all. If they do, can human's hear it?

Now we are gonna critic Romney rather than talk about our choice, before it was Bush, people way down the ticket, then some guy with a youtube video, soon it will be Boehner, later the CIA screwed it all up, then Republicans did it for the next four years. It's almost like the President doesn't actually do anything, or at least nothing worth mentioning. Can't we at least talk about his golf game, or pants crease.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

My point is that someone earlier up thread--maybe LilyBart or Shanna--said we're chumps for even trying anymore, because the middle-class self-reliant pay-your-own-way ethos is dead in this country. Althouse points out that we're chumps for letting political fears harsh our mellow. Why not unite the two concepts and go for voluntary subsistence living? I'll have all the time in the world to contemplate the clouds in the sky when I'm not working for a paycheck that's not going to buy diddly even before it's taxed into oblivion. Fuck all that noise. My husband and kids and I will busy ourselves with the elementals. Growing food, studying and worshiping God, looking at and listening to pretty things, reading books and discussing ideas.

Hey now, do the Amish accept converts? They could use some new genes, or so I read. And I have four smart, beautiful children.

Freeman Hunt said...

Women overall seem inclined to believe in phantoms. I'm not sure how you combat that. Do you say, "Republicans aren't in favor of rape?" I don't think that works. You'd think they'd know that already. Maybe you're supposed to make up your own pretend threat. Or talk about Big Bird. Or binders. Or something else similarly serious.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Obama is the left's god. He has zero responsibility.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Marshal,

I really don't understand your point. The professor was making a comment about not needing money because things are free. I point out they are not free. How is this responsive?

It's responsive in that, for anyone capable of reading Prof. Althouse's comment -- that is, anyone with electricity, a computer, and an Internet connection -- they are free.

They are not free in the same sense if you lack any one of those three things, and especially not if you don't have any of them. But for, say, you, who obviously have electricity, a computer, and Internet access,Candide is a click or two away, and your marginal cost is, well, zero. Public domain, and all that.

You were positing some huge divide between the privileged law professor and the plebes far below. In the matter of information it's just not like that. (OK, I envy Ann her Lexis/Nexis access. But apart from that, what she has access to is what anyone with an Internet connection and/or a decent public library has access to.)

Toad Trend said...

"It's almost like the President doesn't actually do anything, or at least nothing worth mentioning."

In speaking to leftists, I've noticed they like to present the illusion that their party members didn't exist, really.

The financial crisis was Bush's fault, we constantly hear. Of course, we have numerous examples of democrat congresscritters signing off on mortgage schemes and spending plans all along.

This is just one small reflection of many seen inside the bubble of the leftist.

bagoh20 said...

" what she has access to is what anyone with an Internet connection and/or a decent public library has access to."

You can access Meade at any public library? Awesome! I got some house painting for him.

Toad Trend said...

"Althouse points out that we're chumps for letting political fears harsh our mellow. Why not unite the two concepts and go for voluntary subsistence living?"

The latter, a former fantasy, and the former, gotta agree with.

Yeah, I was disappointed. But because I knew this might happen, it only was 3 beers last nite before I packed it in. Once O had FLA 51-48 with about half counted, I went to bed. In the morning, my wife and I enjoyed coffee and were not despondent at all. Happy the rancor was over, we have chosen to press on and not allow the situation to dampen our living. Same with the kids. If anything, we will be more vigilant.

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