November 13, 2012

Petraeusgate drags in Gen. John R. Allen, the commander of U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan.

"According to a senior U.S. defense official..."
... the FBI has uncovered between 20,000 and 30,000 documents — most of them e-mails — of 'potentially inappropriate'communication between Allen and Jill Kelley, the 37-year-old Tampa woman whose report of harrassment by a person who turned out to be Petraeus’s mistress ultimately led to Petraeus’s downfall....
The scrutiny of Allen’s personal behavior extends a remarkable string of failures and misconduct allegations that have dogged the last four commanders of the Afghan war. Petraeus took the job in 2010, after President Obama fired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal for cooperating with a Rolling Stone profile that quoted McChrystal’s aides as mocking the president, Vice President Biden and other civilian leaders. 
A chain of events set in motion by the unignorable insult "Bite Me"...
“Are you asking about Vice President Biden?” McChrystal says with a laugh. “Who’s that?”

“Biden?” suggests a top adviser. “Did you say: Bite me?”

97 comments:

AReasonableMan said...

Generals 2, Surgeons 0

damikesc said...

What the hell is going with our leaders?

Pogo said...

Washington: Incompetence in war, incompetence in peace.

It's a wonder that anyone in the Obama administration can get themselves dressed in the morning.

Bob Ellison said...

I'm just trying to do the math here. Let's be conservative and say it's 20,000 documents, and that the average one is an email of, say, 100 words. That's about 4,000 pages, enough for a sizeable encyclopedia. I type fast, about 100 words per minute, and have been doing that for a few decades, and I doubt that I've written that much in my entire lifetime.

This is very strange.

Beta Rube said...

Thank God President Jesus is in power. Otherwise we would have to read long whiny articles in the NYT about a lack of leadership, and the tone set by the Commander in Chief, blah,blah,blah.

Trust me, there will be none of that. These are local issues and Obama is innocent by virtue of his endless ignorance.

Bob Ellison said...

Probably 100 words is a tall estimate. Make it 20 words. That's still 200 pages. Charles Dickens could do it. Did John Allen?

Comanche Voter said...

If you leave them laughing at the sexcapades, they'll forget the leadership failure at Benghazi.

Hassell Anderson said...

It sounds like this whole scandal started off as a cat fight between comfort women.

AprilApple said...

Good newz. John "magic hat" Kerry and Susan "It was the video! It was the video! It was the video!" Rice... on deck.

Bob Ellison said...

Sorry: 800 pages. Charles Dickens still did it, and then some.

Freeman Hunt said...

What in the world is going on?!

rhhardin said...

Are the 20,000 emails all inappropriate? Maybe using the 20,000 words for vagina.

Ann Althouse said...

" say it's 20,000 documents, and that the average one is an email of, say, 100 words. That's about 4,000 pages, enough for a sizeable encyclopedia."

Why not say the average email -- a line in an ongoing chat -- is 10 words. Then it's only 400 pages.

Could be less that 10. "Hey, what's up?"

shiloh said...

This is probably why Willard didn't mention America's military during his Rep convention speech. :-P

Hey, he's a Mormon and averse to everything re: the military, especially randy generals.

Indeed, as the Joint Chiefs would probably just laugh at Willard I won't violate Pakistani air space to kill bin Laden Romney.

>

But not to worry since Obama kicked Romney's butt in the 2012 presidential election!

Ann Althouse said...

If it's an affair, I'm guessing the messages are about times and places.

Ready at 8.

In the conservatory.

Marshal said...

Hassell Anderson said...
It sounds like this whole scandal started off as a cat fight between comfort women.


One of Allen's people says Allen and Kelly were never alone together. This looks a lot shakier than the Petraeus affair.

Bob Ellison said...

"Why not say the average email -- a line in an ongoing chat -- is 10 words."

Unlikely average. I've been emailing since before the Internet. Emails are longer than ten words, on average. It's not Twitter, and it's not SMS. Certainly the range is large: from a word or two to several thousand.

AprilApple said...

All Shiloh can come up with is that this is all Romney's fault.
Behold: The American left.

Blessings.

chickelit said...

Every morning a new casualty in the scandal. I think the defenders of Kelley's good honor and intentions can hold their breath a while.

Bob Ellison said...

I think many people in the modern age fail to consider the ramifications of their communication media. Email, though, requires work. You gotta select the recipient, type a subject, type a message, hit Send, etc.

I dunno. People are stupid. I say things on the phone that I'd never type on a place like a blog comment.

Clyde said...

Not to mention the FBI investigator working with Ms. Kelley, who became obsessed with her, sent her shirtless pictures of himself, and was removed from the case.

Jeez-O-Pete! With all of these people fucking around, figuratively and literally, it's a wonder we're killing ANYONE in Afghanistan!

And to think I used to be proud of this country... Sigh.

shiloh said...

If Gen. Allen is guilty of adultery it would behoove the fool to resign immediately!

If a servicemember is prosecuted for Adultery under Article 134 of the UCMJ, then the punishment can be up to a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction in rate or rank, and confinement for 1 year, if tried at General Court Martial.

Just sayin'

exhelodrvr1 said...

If they used wider margins and larger font, it's a lot more than 400 pages.

Saint Croix said...

I think the important question is whether there are nude pictures of women.

AllenS said...

Let's do it.

Where?

Under the desk.

Patrick said...

Ready at 8.

In the conservatory.


With the lead pipe...

shiloh said...

Althouse, please give AprilApple a course in reading comprehension! TIA

MayBee said...

So a private citizen who volunteers to throw parties for military brass gets some weird emails.
She tells an acquaintance, who at some point emails her shirtless photos of himself, who gets his FBI station involved in investigating.

From that, we end up with the FBI obviously reading through Ms. Kelley's email account as well as hacking into Broadwell's email account where they find....no threatening emails, but sexually explicit emails between her (a private citizen) and Petraeus. They read those emails as well.

How does this make sense?
Who approved these subpoenas/warrants?

EDH said...

It's like an episode of MASH.

So, where's Klinger?

Don't ask, don't tell.

Hassell Anderson said...

Marshal said...

One of Allen's people says Allen and Kelly were never alone together.

People say all sorts of things. Some of these things may actually be true. Who knows? Is there any reason to believe anything anybody says any more?

It is becoming impossible - by design I suspect - to separate the truth from its bodyguard of lies.

john said...

To steal from Ace:

It's not a love triangle. It's a love pentagon.

MayBee said...

If Kelley knew she had these emails with General Allen, why would she ask the FBI to investigate and read her email account?

Clyde said...

Just as long as it's not Mrs. Petraeus, Saint Croix.

Patrick said...

If Gen. Allen is guilty of adultery it would behoove the fool to resign immediately!

I would think the MCMJ would apply for conduct that occurred during his service, even if he resigns before prosecution.

chickelit said...

It's not a love triangle. It's a love pentagon.

Except it's not Platonic.

Hagar said...

"Stay away from my man!" could also be about "my source" for inside information?
Maybe even Allen rather than Petraeus?
Petraeus and Broadwell had an affair, but it would not be the first time that the woman in the case had more on her mind than sex!

chickelit said...

Hmm, I think Shilho is suggesting that we revisit the UCMJ, maybe change up a few laws and rules or something.

I wonder why he'd suggest such a thing?..anyways, worth a discussion.

leslyn said...

Petraeus, "The Powerpoint General," didn't live up to his hype in A-stan. They all remind me of Lincoln's search for a Grant.

Freeman Hunt said...

What a mess. This is ridiculous.

Darrell said...

Hasn't Ritmo beat that count here?

Sometimes it seems so--in a single thread even.

Marshal said...

Hassell Anderson said...
People say all sorts of things. Some of these things may actually be true. Who knows? Is there any reason to believe anything anybody says any more?


True enough, I didn't say it is not true. But certain statements are easier to check than others. If someone were intentionally running interference I don't think they'd make this statement. Even if this advocate were being lied to I think the defense would be something harder to verify. Once you pierce the first defense it's all over, so that first one had better be your best.

It's certainly possible this affair could turn out true also. A similar line of reason had me questioning whether the Wisconsin attack hoax was real, since I thought no one would be stupid enough to lie about the text messages. But it seems to me this position will be crushed if it isn't true, so anyone with any sophistication would lie differently.

shiloh said...

Althouse, please give chicklit a course in reading comprehension also.

SteveR said...

If Mort were awake, he'd blame it on Cecil Rhodes

Jason said...

Might be flying below your radar, because it's only a one-star. But the former assistant division commander of the 82nd Airborne is now facing multiple charges of forcible sodomy, etc., etc. etc.

Patrick said...

To climb upon my moral high horse, one of the problems with scandals like this is it lowers the bar for behavior. The affair becomes a joke, people hold fidelity and family in a lower regard, and there are fewer expectations that people will actually remain faithful. That's too bad.

sydney said...

And here we see the consequences of the Sex and the City culture.

Roger J. said...

Looks like all kinds of information is coming out. As an ex-soldier I hate to think that the senior leadership gets involved in these things. As Drudge headlines, it looks like a four star circus. No wonder we couldnt win the war because senior commander were too busy chasing pussy.

Roger J. said...

During my cadet days at West Point the motto was duty honor country--Looks like it needs to be changed to pussy first and let the duty honor and country stuff go by the boards. I am ashamed for my military

The Drill SGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Drill SGT said...

couple of comments.

when I read the article, it said "20-30 thousand pages of documents".

some were emails

UCMJ Art 133 "Conduct unbecoming an Officer and a Gentlemen.."

and 134 "Adultery..." would apply, if there was you know, "actual adultery".

I think he's innocent. Very few Marines can read and write. 20 thousand pages? no way :)

Roger J. said...

Drill--would agree with you about jarheads :)

but when I was involved in hostile action, marines were always the go to guys--as for the allegations re Gen Allen--guess we will have to let this play out. I am, however, sorely dissapointed in events as they are unfolding.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Ready at 8.

In the conservatory.

With the lead pipe...


Don't tell me Colonel Mustard is caught up in this too!

Irene said...

Maybe there's an "Afghan Club" of some sort. Many people might be part of it--resulting in thousands of pages of emails--but there is a code of silence.

And what if it's not really about sex?

Saint Croix said...

I have a request. Can we stop adding "-gate" to the end of our scandals?

The Petraeus Affair. Way better.

Petraeusgate. It's like a Greek dinosaur or something. It's unwieldy. It's stupid.

I swear, if Kennedy was elected after Nixon, we'd be saying Bayofpigsgate today. Let's quit tying Nixon to every scandal in the universe. He's dead. Been dead a long time. Let our new, modern scandals find their own name. Don't suffocate them with this "-gate" nonsense. Our new scandals need to find their own voice. They need to walk on their own two legs. Let our scandals breathe!

Thank you.

Craig said...

This all could have been avoided if Monica had been allowed to keep her job with the Pentagon.

Freeman Hunt said...

I'm with MayBee. The article I read said that the FBI didn't even think Broadwell's emails to Kelley were threatening. Yet they still traced them to Broadwell. Even after finding out who had sent the offensive emails, (You'd think that'd be the end of it.) they got into Broadwell's email account and went through it.

What was the FBI doing in Broadwell's account? Are they allowed to read people's email on a whim now?

Pogo said...

"Are they allowed to read people's email on a whim now?"

yes.

As I've been saying, we are no longer in a free society, a constitutional republic.

We live in a fascist state.

Freeman Hunt said...

I don't think I've sent 20,000 emails in my entire life, all recipients combined, and I've had email for 18 years.

Colonel Angus said...

the FBI has uncovered between 20,000 and 30,000 documents — most of them e-mails — of 'potentially inappropriate'communication between Allen and Jill Kelley,

Does anyone find this a ridiculous amount of documents? What period of time are we talking here?

Colonel Angus said...

I guess Bob Ellison also agrees with me. 20,000 emails?

The Drill SGT said...

Freeman Hunt said...
I'm with MayBee. The article I read said that the FBI didn't even think Broadwell's emails to Kelley were threatening. Yet they still traced them to Broadwell. Even after finding out who had sent the offensive emails, (You'd think that'd be the end of it.) they got into Broadwell's email account and went through it.

What was the FBI doing in Broadwell's account? Are they allowed to read people's email on a whim now?


The FBI apparently got a warrant. what grounds you might ask if there was no crime?

To put this in perspective, you need to understand the basics:

1. Institutionally, the CIA and the FBI are oil and water.

They.Hate.Each.Other.

Ever since Col Donovan (OSS) convinced FDR to strip the FBI of the counterintel mission outside the US. 70 years worth of spite.

Their approach to everything is different.

2. The FBI hates to be embarrassed (corollary: The FBI loves to embarrass the CIA)

Now you know all you need to know…

Roger J. said...

Col Angus--you and others have raised some good questions. I guess my question at this point in this egregious scandal: who will investigate it and provide us answers--because I believe we the american people require answers.

Colonel Angus said...

If it's an affair, I'm guessing the messages are about times and places.

Ready at 8.

In the conservatory.


That's still a lot of emails. Impressive stamina for a 60 year old. Maybe he has a backup career.

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Freeman Hunt:Are they allowed to read people's email on a whim now?

Warrantless electronic surveillance has tripled since 2009.

People like shiloh cared about this until their own guy started doubling and tripling down on it--just like debt, drone attacks, and wars in the Middle East.

Craig said...

And the director of the BBC is stepping down to take a job with the N.Y. Times?

The Drill SGT said...

Roger J,

Getting an attached USMC Rifle Company = heaven.

Getting your tank company attached to Marines = hell

I will spare you the horrors of USMC Armor doctrine, other than to hint at it with the fact, that if the external phone is broken, the tank is deadlined :)

bgates said...

I don't think I've sent 20,000 emails in my entire life, all recipients combined, and I've had email for 18 years.

1100/year; 3 per day. You may have.

MayBee said...

Freeman- they obviously read through Kelley's emails as well.
Did she know they would do that?
Because that's obviously how they found out about shirtless FBI man and the emails from Allen.

Would she have invited the FBI to look through her whole account?
Did they tell her they were going to do that?

Patrick said...

I believe we the american people require answers.

You want answers?

I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth.

Sorry. Someone had to do it.

phx said...

Certainly doesn't make us look good in front of our potential enemies.

I think the offenders are probably cognizant of that at this point. I don't know what they were thinking before.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Roger J,
"I am ashamed for my military"

Agreed.

Roger J. said...

Ahh drill--it is hell to be an old soldier--and I did love your comment re being attached to marines--fortunately I had marines working for me.

Seriously Drill: what has happened to our senior leadership? Out junior soldiers are the absolute best; these soldiers do more than I would have ever expected trooopers to do--I have to confess to being very sad about these events. Chalk these up to a Col Blimp moment, I guess

MayBee said...

Hmmm.
Now Fox is saying Petraeus never released an after-action report after his trip to Benghazi after the attacks.

bagoh20 said...

" Can we stop adding "-gate" to the end of our scandals?...Let's quit tying Nixon to every scandal in the universe."

Besides he was clearly just a piker compared to today's scandalators.

Maybe we can start calling things -ghazis, like Waterghazi.

Clyde said...

I'm sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrites
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
I've had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna Mother Hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna Mother Hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of soap
Money for dope
Money for rope
I'm sick to death of seeing things
From tight-lipped, condescending, mama's little chauvinists
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth now
I've had enough of watching scenes
Of schizophrenic, ego-centric, paranoiac, prima-donnas
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna Mother Hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of soap
It's money for dope
Money for rope
Ah, I'm sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrites
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
I've had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

-- "Gimme Some Truth," John Lennon, 1971

Everything old is new again!

Calypso Facto said...

RogerJ said: "During my cadet days at West Point..."

I can't decide if it's a dig or an honor that Broadwell has been overwhelmingly described as a West Point grad instead of a Harvard grad. (She has degrees from both.) Is it because journalists want to jeer at West Point or that their expectations of Harvard grads are so low?

Darrell said...

their expectations of Harvard grads are so low

It's because they can't associate Harvard grads with any scandal until Obama and Elizabeth Warren are officially living in their retirement homes.

McTriumph said...

Seems this Administration is clearing the decks of our best and brightest military leadership. Not to worry, one of the most brilliant minds, both in military matters and foreign policy will be taking over DOD, Sen. John Kerry, hero of the Xmass Battle of Cambodia, did I mention he served in VN.

Inga said...

Hey Roger and Drill SGT!

My daughter is a Jarhead! Well in a roundabout way. I wonder what the troops on the ground there are saying about this whole thing? I'll have to wait untill she messages me, we use iPad messenger. Maybe it's not safe discussing it as their communications are monitored(?), unlike the Generals.

Bob Ellison said...

Yes, Colonel Angus. The numbers are implausible.

LarsPorsena said...

Everybody snap out of it!

Patton had dozens of affairs. Lucien Truscott and Eisenhower too.

Monks don't lead armies.

Clyde said...

In Stalin's day, they would have called it a purge, and generals would get a bullet in the back of the head at the Lubyanka.

Colonel Angus said...

Everybody snap out of it!

Patton had dozens of affairs. Lucien Truscott and Eisenhower too.


So did JFK for that matter but I think the press was more circumspect back then.

LarsPorsena said...

Anybody remember 'Tailhook' and how it almost crippled naval aviation?

We are not a serious country.

The Drill SGT said...

Inga said...
Hey Roger and Drill SGT!

My daughter is a Jarhead! Well in a roundabout way


Since you are the mother of a Marine, and President Ford determined that I was a Gentleman, I will refrain from my next Marine parenting joke, though I'm sure you've heard it by now, if you've every met any soldiers...

The Drill SGT said...

Monks don't lead armies.

Or as General Patton phrased it:

Soldiers that won't fornicate, won't fight

And yes, he was a Gentlemen and used the longer form...

edutcher said...

Let's remember that Choom was running A-stan and second-guessing his generals from McChrystal on.

Can't wait to see this become a look into his conduct of his surge.

shiloh said...

This is probably why Willard didn't mention America's military during his Rep convention speech. :-P

Hey, he's a Mormon and averse to everything re: the military, especially randy generals.


The little weasel is too busy drooling on himself to remember the Mormon Battalion or who won the Mormon War.

Indeed, as the Joint Chiefs would probably just laugh at Willard I won't violate Pakistani air space to kill bin Laden Romney.

That's why 500 former flag rank officers endorsed him.

>

But not to worry since Obama kicked Romney's butt in the 2012 presidential election!

Stealing is not kicking, which reminds us, where were you hiding out 10/5 - 11/5 when the Romster was winning?

PLO at Camp Rhino?

edutcher said...

LarsPorsena said...

Everybody snap out of it!

Patton had dozens of affairs. Lucien Truscott and Eisenhower too.


The Sommersby thing was way overrated and Patton and Truscott weren't that good (Metz, Cisterna).

Hardly an endorsement.

Hassell Anderson said...

Marshal said...

But certain statements are easier to check than others

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps we'll know what's true when the NY Times gets the talking points memo from the Obama administration.

But there is one thing I do know. If I was a grunt humping around the mountains of Afghanitan getting shot at and blown up by the Taliban, I'd be pissed that the generals are back at the Pentagon humping a bunch of doctor's wives.

Darrell said...

The Sommersby thing was way overrated

And not even true--according to historians and the British Intelligence--who had eyes on him every minute he spent in the UK as per Churchill's orders.

The Drill SGT said...

Indeed, as the Joint Chiefs would probably just laugh at Willard I won't violate Pakistani air space to kill bin Laden Romney.

I believe what Romney said was that:

he thought it inappropriate to speak in public about violating the airspace of an ally. Doing it was fine, but you didn't want to brag about planning to do it in advance, or talk about it later.

you know, the basics...

Darrell said...

And yes, Petraeus lied about his height--or had someone do it for him. 5'5" or 5'6" tops.

Now looking at the pictures of Petraeus with his wife, does that make her an official dwarf?

LarsPorsena said...

Earlier in his career then Colonel Patraeus was observing a live-fire exercise at a range at Fort Campbell when a young soldier named Specialist Terrence Jones tripped and accidentally fired his weapon while conducting a live-fire assault. The bullet from Specialist Jones’ weapon struck Colonel Petraeus, slamming through his chest and taking a piece of his back on the way out. Petraeus fell to the ground, bleeding out of his mouth. He nearly died.

I think the General is used to getting shot by his own side.

phx said...

Petraeus fell to the ground, bleeding out of his mouth. He nearly died.

Yup this is a real mess, an embarassment.

But I can't judge these guys on this story so far. What am I going to say: "Based on what I know they sacrificed a lot for their country?"

It is what it is.

Jeffrey said...

Kelley to Allen: Is that a red dot on this cashmere sweater?

Colonel Angus said...

But I can't judge these guys on this story so far. What am I going to say: "Based on what I know they sacrificed a lot for their country?"

It is what it is.


Well I am also a bit conflicted. Are they so susceptible to blackmail over an extramarital affair they would divulge classified Intel? I mean the President is privy to as much and there is a litany of sitting Presidents screwing around yet they aren't called out for potentially being blackmailed and a threat to national security.

The Drill SGT said...

LarsPorsena said...
Earlier in his career then Colonel Patraeus was observing a live-fire exercise at a range at Fort Campbell when a young soldier named Specialist Terrence Jones tripped and accidentally fired his weapon while conducting a live-fire assault.


Yup, as a Drill SGT, the two worst days bar none, in a training cycle were "live grenade day" and "close combat course" day.

Any vet can imagine 10% of the things that can bite your ass on either day