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This is a GOP internal poll that is a total outlier. What's the point of flogging the outliers--especially since you only flog the conservative ones? Is your blog just propaganda now or do you really think these are probably the "right" polls? If they aren't--as determined by election day--will you admit you were wrong and change your practice in future elections?
YES, thanks, Prof. But, I am still nervous.The media can hurt Romney tomorrow or Monday.Politico is running a Christie as a VP to hurt GOP.Tomorrow the cable TV will do this.On Mon, it will be brutal, like a Political Sandy.The best thing: Have people vote early. Get these in the bank in WI, MN, FL, PA, OH, VA.We got to win this before Mon.It is like a mid-term. You do not want to study the night before.Get them to the polls. Call them. Do something. NOW.
It should be close in MN. McCain lost by 10 in 2008, and with the overall shift of the electorate in 2012 Romney being ahead by 1 is entirely reasonable.
Minnesotans love to patronize minorities, so if Obama actually loses in Minnesota... well, that's really something dontcha know!
Anybody bothered to poll California lately?
I was wondering today if Minneapolis was jealous of Madison over Monday's Obama rally.
Did you intend to make us laugh? If so--thanks. If not--thanks anyway.
Keep whistling past that graveyard, Leslyn.
No, I don't think Romney will take MN. What I do think is that Obama's margins will be much smaller in the blue states than they were in '08.
Seriously, what is there to like about Obama anymore unless you're out for revenge or grinding an ax?
I don't think Ann points this out to say she expects MN to go for Romney or to promote her conservative bonafides (really Paulio, your very simpleminded).There's a death rattle.
Here's hoping that Obama becomes Mondale... only wins in Hawaii.
Breaking news from MN! Chris Kluwe resigns as a contributor to the Pioneer Press newspaper over marriage equality editorial.Dang, he's really fun to read.
Well, both sides can't be whistling past the graveyard, can they? I'm not going to be surprised by any result. I suspect that pollsters' ability to reach the public has been greatly diminished over the past 4 years, as more of us switch over to cell-phone only. I suspect that caller ID on landlines is widely used by those under 50 who still have landlines. Maybe the pollsters have figured out how to compensate for this. But I doubt it. If Romney wins Minnesota, then yes, he will win by a landslide. But that's a pretty big if, and all the hope in the world won't change that.
"Anybody bothered to poll California lately?"Obama has a 15 point lead over Mitt, but Leonid Brezhnev is still leading both by 10.
"I want you two to look deep into each other's eyes.Now, say goodbye, Ahmed."
"Seriously, what is there to like about Obama anymore unless you're out for revenge or grinding an ax?"Nothing, if Drudge and Althouse represent the norm of your information intake.
Obama is still up +14 in CA but that's a drop.I have seen ads on TV all week.Do they have hope?I am pre-jubilant.
Althouse is trolling her own blog it seems.
SteveR said..."I don't think Ann points this out to say she expects MN to go for Romney or to promote her conservative bonafides (really Paulio, your very simpleminded).There's a death rattle.""Your simpleminded". Thanks for giving me a good chuckle this evening Steve!
"Anyone bother to poll California lately?" was even funnier than the story behind this post.Dang, chick, that was good!
So was AF. :)
The air is leaving the OweBama balloon at an accelerating rate.
"I mean this isn't scientific stuff. I heard there's not gonna be a test."
So WI was +13.9 for Obama in 2008 and MN was +10.3. WI is a toss-up. MN should be as well.
How could this be?Nate Silver has Obama with a 99% chance of winning Minnesota.rotflmao.
Youre welcome Paulio, I'll be laughing on Tuesday night.
Here's something I'm not hearing anyone else mention. Presidents that win a second term have almost always increased their electoral vote totals the second time they win. There has been one exception in absolute votes, Woodrow Wilson in 1916. And he benefited greatly in 1912 from a Republican civil war. Most likely Wilson would have won a squeaker in 1912 if TR hadn't gone a little crazy. Wilson went from 435/531 electoral votes to 277/531 electoral votes. That's the only time this has happened.One other time a President won re-election getting fewer electoral votes as a percentage the second time around, and that was James Madison in 1812. He had the rather exceptional circumstance of a war breaking out a few months before the election. He actually got a few more votes, but because of additional electoral votes mainly due to population growth he got a smaller share in 1812.Obama got 365 electoral votes last time around. He's not getting that. If he does win it will be a very contrary to historical trends in American politics.
The Romster is up 4 in PA, so anything is up for grabs.As I said, if PA is called early enough, the landslide is going to become an '80-style avalanche.PS Since MN was O +1, a reversal of fortune - Benghazi revelations, Sandy, "revenge" - could easily tip it.I've said people are getting more and more tired of Dictator Zero and ratings of his TV appearances have shown it. Even Gophers are getting the message.
edutcher said..."The Romster is up 4 in PA, so anything is up for grabs.As I said, if PA is called early enough, the landslide is going to become an '80-style avalanche."I know everyone around here has Instapundit directly uploaded into their brains, but that poll is actually a week old and hasn't been repeated by anyone else. The link is corrected now but I guess all you read is the "instasummary" and move on.
Also, here's another story of economic recovery.I found out a couple of hours ago that my mother-in-law is losing her job of over 20 years. They're closing her office. This is the second office she's been working in for that company that has been closed since Obama took office. That recovery garage and Inga love to brag about doesn't seem all that good to those of us out of work and unable to even get interviews.
Actually I stand corrected, the Susquehanna poll is two weeks old. But hey, you can keep citing it as long as you like! I fully expect the headline here on Wednesday morning to be "Rasmussen still has Romney winning despite election being called for Obama"
R+1 in DFL Minnesota? Color me very very skeptical.
Paulio. just curious: Do you think anyone is going to vote for Romney? Or is even Mitt going to vote for God Emperor Zero?
I love you Obama fanatics. Over 75 people have gone onto food stamp for every net job created by Barry 0, and you insist that this is what you want more of. How many people do you want on the public dole before it's enough?
Icepick:I think the election is going to be pretty close, though I expect Obama's electoral college result will beat Bush's 2004 number. But not by much. Certainly closer than last time. 19 out of 20 swing state polls yesterday had Obama tied or ahead. That's where I'd put my money. Today's look like a similar story. I agree with the conservative Ted Frank's argument that there is a chance ALL the state polls are consistently biased pro-Dem, I'm guessing that chance isn't greater than 50% though.If they are ALL wrong I will use that information to assess their accuracy in the next election. Presumably, they would make some alterations so that they aren't wrong again next time.
Every-one, be careful. As Prof. Glenn says: Don't be cocky. Remember, every-one is against the GOP:- NYT- Nate Silver- Politico.com- Wash-Post- Daily-Beast- Huff-Post- MSNBCYou cannot even take a leak without their permission.My heart wants Romney to win (and he has already gotten my vote), but my head says that the Press will do what it takes to get Obama to the finish line.That is why I am afraid, so very afraid.
I do not believe any of this crap. No one knows. Have these people ever polled Minnesota before? Is there any reason to take them seriously?Could it be right? Sure. But why put any stock in it now? We'll know in three days.
Keep dreaming Althouse.It'll be fun to come back here on the night of November 6th and gloat.
Harrogate/Leslyn: I don't expect Obama to lose CA in EC votes, but I do think the popular vote will show more narrowing than expected. Especially up north.Also, there is no enthusiasm for him in racially mixed but conservative Oceanside. Also, yes on Prop 32 (curbing Union power) will be the surprise upset--like prop 8 was in 2008. Lastly, we will easily return Darrell Issa to Congress for more rounds of Congressional oversight if Obama is reelected.
I am not cocky. But I can smell momentum in a big way. Only 200 show up for an OweBama rally, headlined by Stevie Wonder in Cleveland. Of course, Wonder didn't know the audience was on the thin side.Last week I drove 150 miles to watch Penn State get smoked by Ohio State. I saw 5 Owebama signs. Hundreds of Romney signs.
That is why I am afraid, so very afraid.I'm a white man with a white family living in a black neighborhood. They're threatening to riot and kill all the white people if Obama loses. So I'm more afraid of a Romney win. Still voted for Romney, though. This kind of political thuggery is Stalinist in nature. But that's hardly surprising given that the people rooting for Obama want more of this kind of economy, want more people ruined, want more people dependent on government. Goddamn them all to Hell for threatening my child because of their lust for power.
The WSJ polls today have Obama up by 6 in Florida and 2 in Ohio. If Romney loses FL, isn't he toast? Let's ignore FL for the sake of argument. I think Romney's main chance is that the 'bandwagon effect' works in Romney's favor. The normative Obama supporter but nonvoter in this scenario would be, 'Yeah I'm definitely for Obama and against that racist plutocrat Romney, but Obama hasn't done much for me lately, Obama's going to win (anyway) ..' past time to vote. This isn't going to be true of the 'revenge' black and Latino vote.
Here is some discussion of the pollster for that MN poll. He seems legit.
Was driving through my mother-in-law's working-class Minneapolis suburb today. They voted 60-40 Obama in 2008. There was ONE Obama/Biden sign in a yard.A few weeks ago, I drove down a block in a Yuppie Minneapolis neighborhood. In 2008, every house on this particular block had an Obama sign. This year, all yards have a "Vote NO on restricting marriage" sign, but no Obama signs.Something's different.
It'll be fun to come back here on the night of November 6th and gloat.I've been out of work for years now, and you want me to be unemployed for the rest of my life just so your shitty little political party can keep looting the country. Fuck you, asshole, for wanting more ruination for me and those like me. Keep gloating, asshat. Just keep gloating.
The WSJ polls today have Obama up by 6 in Florida and 2 in Ohio.And the Tampa Bay Times has Romney up by six. And you are one of the assholes complaining about others cherry-picking their polls? Asshat scumbag.
bagoh20 said..."I mean this isn't scientific stuff. I heard there's not gonna be a test."A little pitchy but, mmm, good stuff.
The Minnesota Poll, which historically leans heavily DFL, only had Obama up by three probably 2-3 weeks back. So this is within the realm of possibility. Republicans control both houses in Minnesota and fell a few thousand votes shy of holding the governorship as well.
Zachary Paul Sire said..."Keep dreaming Althouse.It'll be fun to come back here on the night of November 6th and gloat."Why, Zachary? Why is that your thing - gloating?Revenge?
Icepick, sorry to hear that and I hope you stay safe. Why doesn't Dateline NBC ever do an undercover study of the racism of blacks against whites? I guess we are supposed to ignore the elephant in the room . . .
Why doesn't Dateline NBC ever do an undercover study of the racism of blacks against whites?Do you really have to ask?
Who's your dealer and can you please hook me up with him?
A new Susquehanna Poll for PA will be out Sunday morning. They were the most accurate pollsters in 2010, when they predicted a Toomey win.Go to the NYT and look at PA's map from 2010. The only dark blue is the tiny corner where Philly is. PA was mostly dark red in 2010. The other parts are light red, followed by a tiny bit of light blue and then an even tinier Philly region.PA now has a Republican governor, an R House and an R Senate, and one R Senator whom even Santorum didn't endorse in a primary over Specter. The other Senator, Casey, won on his Dad's name 6 years ago, but he's in a squeaker now.So why, again, is everyone so confident that PA is a blue state? I am of course phlegmatic since it would be unusual in a general election for a Dem to lose PA, but look at the above statistics and think about it.(If you didn't grow up in rural PA where faith never died but financial hope was dead since the '29 crash, and you haven't gone back to see the flame of hope rekindled by Marcellus Shale and farms saved for another generation, then you can't understand what's happening in PA.)
Paulio said...The Romster is up 4 in PA, so anything is up for grabs.As I said, if PA is called early enough, the landslide is going to become an '80-style avalanche.I know everyone around here has Instapundit directly uploaded into their brains, but that poll is actually a week old and hasn't been repeated by anyone else. The link is corrected now but I guess all you read is the "instasummary" and move on.Then Paulio better read the Instasummary and ask himself why the Romster has poured a lot of money into a last minute ad buy in my old home state.I'm guessing his internal polling mirrors that spread.
It was a rhetorical question. I know the answer.
PS The flop sweat on the trolls is getting deep in here.Or is it just Kevin Bacon urging us to remain calm?
Icepick, sorry to hear that and I hope you stay safe.I'm going to keep a suitcase packed and in the car. Gonna keep a machete handy. I suppose they're more talk than action, but we'll see. The fact that such threats are even being made is disgusting, but what do you expect from the likes of people that think this economy is the best economy in the history of the world? No point talking ot the local law enforcement, because the local sheriff is another black Democrat. There won't be any help from that quarter if the shit hits the fan.
Paulio said...Icepick:I think the election is going to be pretty close, though I expect Obama's electoral college result will beat Bush's 2004 number. But not by much. Certainly closer than last time. 19 out of 20 swing state polls yesterday had Obama tied or ahead. That's where I'd put my money.==============There aren't 20 Swing States, you ignorant Obama Brigade bullshit spewer.
Threatening to riot and kill if Obama loses? Good Lord man, get a grip.
Icepick, just WHO is making the threats? What, are there signs out in your neighborhood saying, "Get your ass out of town, whitey if Romney wins"?God, some of you so love conspiracy theories.
Inga Oop, Unless you were present during these "conversations", I suggest tempering your comments a bit.
As I've said before, my impression is that those threatening violent race riots are mostly white Democratic assholes, not black people.Assholes like Bill Maher, who said, and I quote: “If you’re thinking about voting for Mitt Romney, I would like to make this one plea: black people know who you are and they will come after you.”There you go, Inga-- that's a threat. And a pretty despicable racist statement too. Take your objections to Bill Maher. And as you like to say, he's "one of your own."
No Rick, because its BULLSHIT scare tactics.
There aren't 20 Swing States, you ignorant Obama Brigade bullshit spewer. The poster said there were 20 swing state *polls*. PPP is tweeting they have MN 53-45 forObama. Voters also oppose gay marriage ban and voter ID amendment.
Inga, you also may want to peruse Al Sharpton's historic career.
Check twitter. Or just go walk around in a black neighborhood. (I bet you wouldn't have the guts to even show your face in my neighborhood.)But tell me, do you really have a problem if it happens? Because I bet you would love it. You certainly love an economy that is ruining my family from coast to coast, why not love a riot that gets us killed too? Anything for your party to cling to power.
Yashu, Bill Maher is making fun of people like Icepick.
No, Bill Maher is threatening people like Icepick.
or she can check what mega-Obama supporter Bill Maher is calling for. They love violence and threats of violence. It's their basic Stalinist nature.
@Meade:Gloating and revenge are two very different things. What is there to get revenge for? Nothing. I'm interested in watching all of the Drudge Insta Dick Morris zombies here lose (what's left of) their minds Tuesday night purely for the sake of entertainment and self-satisfaction. It's gloating. That's all.
"But tell me, do you really have a problem if it happens? Because I bet you would love it. You certainly love an economy that is ruining my family from coast to coast, why not love a riot that gets us killed too? Anything for your party to cling to power."Goodness the Shrill Factor is going through the roof. Icepick the Righteous! Icepick the Martyr!Icepick the bullshitting fearmonger.
How about we let Icepick evaluate whether or not his family and property is safe in his neighborood, Inga? I mean, Bossy Internet Lady is an important data point and all, but sheesh.
Being from Minnesota, I have a hard time believing that Romney could take Minnesota. However, there are some things to consider. 1) Minnesota has a very large percentage of idependents that often do things like elect Jessie Ventura. This group in Minnesota is probably larger than the partie identifiers. In fact there is often an independent candidate who gets 20+% of the vote, as they did last year in the governors race. Al Franken won with 40% of the vote in 2008 because of the independent. THe turnout in 2004 was only D+3. So if Romney really appeals to independents, he can win. Kerry won by 3.5 points in 2004 and carried independents +13. If Romney is now leading independents by 10 points, Romney can win!2) Minnesota is 93% white. Obama just cant rely on 20% of the people voting for him no matter what.3) Republicans took over the statehouse and state Senate in 2010. This was a first in 40 years. They did this because independents swung big time to Republicans in the big red anti-obama wave. Long time democrat Jim Oberstar was swept away by a Republican also in 2010. There is a tea party organization that did not exist in 2008 that exists now. If this wave continues, Romney will win Minnesota.
Sanctimonious Erika, why don't you go check to see if your ammo is dry, you may need it when the "riots" ensue, LMAO!
Hey, Inga, some of the wonderful blacks in my neighborhood beat one of my kittens to death with a pipe a few months back. How's that for civilized behavior? They tried to catch the others, but the cats had wised up by then.Also, bitch, I live in a black neighborhood. Do you? Or are you another one of the SWPL folks that has the one black friend and thinks you're down with the colored folk?As for Maher, threats like that are a lot less funny when your home has been invaded. It's a lot less funny when your pets end up dead. It's not so funny then. At least not to me. I'm sure you find the idea of my pets getting killed hysterical, and love the idea of my doors being kicked in. No question at all that you love that kind of stuff happening to me.
17,000 at the Denver Romney rally tonight. Full house at Fiddlers.
And come on, Yashu. I saw Maher deliver that in "Real Time" (heh) but you don't have to have seen it--the snippet you just quoted is enough--to know that Maher was very obviously, as Inga just noted, making fun of the garden variety, doomcrying Icepicks (Pat Buchananites, even if they have never heard of Buchanan?), ever on the watch for the "threats" to white people.
Icepick, I suspect you are full of shit.
Oh Inga, always putting words in people's mouths and being intentionally obtuse. At least you're getting attention, right? So it's a great Saturday night for you!
I think both Icepick and Inga are correct. There are lots of threats being made on Twitter, but getting blacks to actually follow through on something requiring effort is a whole different thing.
Do you really think people in MN are happy with Al Franken(D)?I don't. He's a freak who stole his seat and everyone knows it.
Erika, sure honey. How was the ammo, dry? Texas is a good place for you, very fitting.
Sorun, way to keep raising that bar! Moby? Or Drunk Buchananite? You make the call.
Some other points to consider about Minnesota.1. All the population growth in the last 4-8 years has been in the burbs, which vote republican.2. Tim Pawlenty, a republican was elected Governor in the big 2006 democrat wave election year.3. There have been virtually no negative ads run about Romney here in the last few months. However, there have been many anti-obama ads by outside groups.4. There is a marriage amendment on the ballot. In other states, this has proven to increase turn-out on the right rather than the left.5. Mitt Romney is not from Texas.
Anybody bothered to poll California lately?I'm not going to engage in any California dreaming, but it sure would be interesting to see a significantly narrower margin than expected.
Icepick the bullshitting fearmonger.I'm living in my mother's house now. I inherited it when she died. I've been out of work for years now and can't afford to live anywhere else.Four years ago four of my mother's neighbors kicked in the side door of her house and ransacked the place for about 90 minutes. Luckily those stupid fucks didn't hurt anyone. The next door neighbor (who just lost her house a couple of months ago, BTW) identified them as the people living on the other side of her, plus one person that lived a couple of blocks away. The police weren't up to catching the criminals.This is Pine Hills, on the outskirts of Orlando Florida. It isn't a happy place. For a while it was the murder capital of Central Florida, although we've dropped off a little in the last couple of years.This summer a family was driving home from church when they got caught in the crossfire of two cars having a driving gun battle. A fifteen year-old girl got shot in the head by the gang-bangers. That's a short walk from my house, about five minutes, tops. A lot less if I cut through a couple of back yards.That event wasn't all that unusual for my neighborhood.I got involved taking care of a stray cat and her litter. The little hooligans who want to be big hooligans started after the kittens when the kits got big enough to wander around. They caught one of them and beat it with a pipe. I'd chased them off on other occasions. This is considered good fun. A few other kits disappeared. It can happen. But it could also be that they were getting caught and fed to the neighborhood pit bulls. I can't rule that out as I know that did happen to another cat that had been hanging around here. One of the younger kids accidentally told me about it.Yeah, given that this house has been invaded within the last five years, given all the gang-bangers that live around here, given that the kids like to beat animals to death for kicks after school, I'm sure I'm just imagining everything.Pine Hills, where hope comes to die. And Inga thinks this is all hysterical.
Voters also oppose gay marriage ban and voter ID amendmentOther polls show support for the voter ID amendment in the 70 percent range. So if PPP shows it losing, then their poll should be viewed with suspicion...
"Some other points to consider about Minnesota..."My sister reported she's being bombarded with Romney ads in St. Paul. She's not pleased.
Anybody who has seen the too-many-to-count youtube videos of black on white mob violence, sucker punches, and polar bear hunting knows it's for real. At least WI has concealed carry now so the civilized can protect themselves.
Inga said,Yashu, Bill Maher is making fun of people like Icepick.Inga, Does it ever make sense to talk like that? I can't wave at a crowd of black folks and yell, "Hey, niggers, how's it goin'!" Even if it's black folks I know. Just not a sensible thing to do (yes, I'm white).Were there no tension at all between the races, none of this would matter. But, there is tension in just a few too many places, and some things are better left unsaid, even in fun.
Icepick seriously, why haven't you sold the house and moved to where the job prospects are better, or gone back to school or learned a trade, or something to help yourself?You certainly aren't representative of conservatives are you? Or are you?
I voted for Romney the friday last at 4 PM.Why? One word: Benghazi." You keep lyin' when you oughta be truthin' "(from Nancy Sinatra, These Boots Are Made for Walkin', an apparent reference to Obama's cowardly acts to not help the US Ambassador in Libya)
Paul Ryan is coming here on Sunday. If Mitt shows, up, then we know its really in play....
As the New York Times puts it..."you can only elect the first black president once."
You certainly aren't representative of conservatives are you? Or are you?Inga, are you still in search of some mystical stereotypical conservative? That's pretty lame. After all this time, why don't you just take an average of all of the "conservatives" on this blog? Can you handle that?
Inga you sanctimonious twat,Belittling someone who is concerned about the safety of their family is low, even for you.Karma, my post menopausal pudgy friend, may it treat you exactliy as you deserve.
Apparently, all the good trolls are out getting drunk in anticipation of Tuesday and we're stuck with the village idiots to stick up for the Left.The Lefties will be voting for revenge on Tuesday.The rest of us for love of country.Guess which sentiment will carry the day.
Icepick seriously, why haven't you sold the house and moved to where the job prospects are better, or gone back to school or learned a trade, or something to help yourself?"No bread? Let Icepick eat cake!"
Inga & harrogate, I concede you may be right about the intent behind Maher's words (I don't watch his show). But even if it's just parodic, it still seems an incredibly obnoxious thing to say. Especially coming from a side that has so often (IMO) irresponsibly deployed the race card for cynical political purposes and fanned the flames of distrust on all sides. (And is doing so in that remark itself.)Anyway, I myself doubt very much we'll see any significant rioting, unless there's some serious appearance of controversy in the electoral results. If there is rioting, my guess is it will be a very localized phenomenon, not generalizable. After all, people have been known to riot over sports outcomes; there's an inherent unpredictability/ inflammability to human nature. So who knows. Maybe we'll see pussy (sorry, lady parts) riots, instead.
In which Inga becomes mean and evil.I'm embarrassed for her.
"Icepick seriously, why haven't you sold the house and moved to..."Inga, come to Madison and ask all of the homeless people, "Why haven't you moved to someplace warmer for the winter? Here's a bus ticket."
Saint Croix said...As the New York Times puts it..."you can only elect the first black president once.""Unlike the soaring language of the last campaign, utilitarian calls to “just vote,” squabbles over saving Big Bird and cures for “Romnesia.” are more likely to be heard by voters. It is a decidedly more down-to-earth affair. Only four years separate the two campaigns, but aside from the man at the middle of them both, covering the campaign this year feels so different."Apparently, it's the Big Bird and Romnesia, stupid.
President Asshat, fuck you. If Icepick doesn't feel his family is safe in that neighborhood, he should leave it. What about rugged individualism and self reliance? My son had only a highschool diploma and went to the local tech college and learned a trade, he is now a Journeyman Millwright, works in Milwaukee, gets more than full time hours, makes a great wage and just bought a house. Old houses even in bad neighborhoods can be sold to companies that buy them cheap, but at least he and his family could improve their situation, by doing something, instead he is here crying about the possibility of these bad blacks "rioting".
Pogo, I'm calling BULLSHIT on blacks rioting if Obama loses, it mean and hateful to push this notion.
Ah, the old appeal to your (alleged) children. So this is in addition to the military nurse and the pretend lawyer? You must have been quite fertile before turning into a bitter old leftist cow.If you don't realize how callous and despicable your statements on this thread are, then you are devoid of any redeemable quality. This is worse than your usual drivel.
Clearly, the answer when you are broke and out of work and threatened by your neighbors in the only house you can afford is "just move".That's effing GENIUS! Whodathunkit?Man. Better advice was never guv. Thanks, Inga.
President, you are a loon.
"Anybody who has seen the too-many-to-count youtube videos of black on white mob violence, sucker punches, and polar bear hunting knows it's for real"Inga, do you call the flash mobs which beat up white people at the State Fair for the hell of it? The flash mob which targeted a white-owned mom-and-pop store on Locust St., again, just for the hell of it? Those attacks were, apparently, just for fun. Those kids didn't need a reason.You are sitting safe and cozy in your middle class Waukesha County home scoffing at and mocking someone who lives in a completely different neighborhood (and one you are unfamiliar with) for fears which may be very well founded. I'm sure you would probably wet yourself if you got lost and ended up at say, 35th and Center, even in broad daylight. And you're calling Erika sanctimonous?
Inga said "I'm calling BULLSHIT on blacks rioting if Obama loses, it mean and hateful to push this notion."You did see the brief video with the black lady shouting incoherently about her free Obamaphone.
Oh my God, what a bunch of hypocrites you conservatives are. You bitch and moan about unemployment benefits, SSDI, food stamps, yet when one of your own embodies what you usually sneer at , all you do is come up with excuses. If Icepick comes to Wisconsin, I will personally help him get into MATC and get a decent place to live, how about it Icepick? That's more than you hypocrites are offering him.
The progs want to shame people who plan to vote against Obama.Instead of shamed, I plan to feel naughty.Indulge the naughty in yourself.
Twitter would seem to bear out Maher - although I think some of the ebonics there come from the high-rent districts.But I don't doubt Maher was any less serious than the Big Fat Pig when he directed an old to to say, "We're gonna burn this motherfucker down".So much for the tolerant Liberals.
There there Inga. Calm down. It's going to be OK.
Heh there it is again, "one of your own"!Inga, it would be so refreshing if you could perceive and interact with the so-called "right-of-center" commenters here as distinct individuals-- each responsible for their own views, ideas, and comments-- instead of a homogeneous tribe you lump together as "other" and judge from a sanctimonious perch.
April Apple, I don't see you offering to help poor Icepick. Hypocrite.
"when one of your own embodies what you usually sneer at , all you do is come up with excuses"Poverty and unemployment are not sneered at, and I resent the accusation. You have a wrecked and skewed view of the world, and I can't fix that.
Icepick - Before a 17 year old freakshow killed 10 year old Jessica Ridgeway, he killed pets.
Inga saidIcepick seriously, why haven't you sold the house and moved to where the job prospects are better, or gone back to school or learned a trade, or something to help yourself?Inga, lovin' her some White Flight. I bet she likes her some ethnic cleansing, as long as it's the correct race getting cleansed and it's not her neighborhood.
Yashu, you can separate yourself from the commenters I am interacting with, don't always assume I mean you too.
I think we got under Inga's skin, must be hitting a little too close to home.Could it be that she actually feels some shame for her despicable comments?Nah, probably just a combination of hot flashes and some creeping doubts that the unmitigated failure currently in the white house is about to get bitchslapped by the voters.
Inga believes she is on the side holding the moral high ground.Blacks threatening to riot and people threatening to assassinate Romney would mean she is not on the side holding the moral high ground.Therefore, it must not be true.Anyone who says differently must be lying, excuse me, bullshitting, right?Epistemic closure is a powerful weapon in the war against the scary world of open-mindedness.
Inga- are you drunk?
@Pogo: sure they are. They're the 47%.
Pogo, are YOU offering to help out Icepick? No? Then you too are beinga hypocrite. Icepick, my offer stands, I'll help you out if you make the first move to help yourself.
The polls are all over the place now. They've been all over the place since the first debate. It's like the first debate blew the polling population into a chaotic frenzy of indecision.I have no idea who will win this. I don't even have any idea if it will be close or a blowout, by either candidate.I certainly hope to see President Ladyparts sent packing to Hawaii, but that is in no way certain.But I do know this.Benghazi is percolating. The compliant lapdog media has accepted Obama's plea to bury the story for now. The NY Times has even admitted to it, saying that it's not appropriate to report such a sensational story that has such political implications this close to an election (yes, this is the same NY Times that ran the GW Bush DUI story the day before the 2000 election, but who would be surprised by that sort of partisan revelation now?)Benghazi will define an Obama second term.
No April, are you? Does someone have to be drunk to see what a bunch of hypocrites you are? No I'm cold stone sober, now I wish I was drunk.
Even though Icepick would be pissed, let’s all kidnap icepick and force feed him government handouts. After all, Icepick must be saved from ObamaVille neighborhood of anger, rage and animal abuse.Hypocrites.Saint Inga has spoken.
Obama's last desperate Hail Mary is to try to paint himself as the hero of the middle class and Romney as their enemy.But Obama actually has a four year middle class record. Here it is:Average middle class income down by $4,000+Average middle class driver spending $2,500 more on gas.Average middle class family spending twice as much on groceries.Average middle class workers paying $1,500 more on company medical insurance.Average middle class man, woman and child owing an additional $20,000 in debt repayment.Not to mention the tens of millions of middle class jobs lost, most of which were "replaced" by low income jobs, 2/3 of which have been taken by low income immigrant workers.Add it all up and you get about a $10,000 per year immediate loss of disposable income, plus the prospect of paying back $20,000 more in long-term debt.I don't need that sort of defense from Obama. Please vote for Romney so that Obama doesn't defend this middle class guy anymore.I need my job. I can't afford another $10,000 loss in economic power.
Icepick seriously, why haven't you sold the house and moved to where the job prospects are better, or gone back to school or learned a trade, or something to help yourself?Can't move because of my wife's job, and because I couldn't get anything for the house. Just assessed at about $33,000. The house next door is empty, just foreclosed on this summer. The one across the street from that one was foreclosed on early in the summer. The one behind it was foreclosed on last year. All three are basically abandoned. The abandoned house across the street sits next to a house that was abandoned four years ago. Apparently no one owns it. I tracked the paperwork through the comptroller's office - it seems the company filing for the foreclosure several years back didn't complete the transaction because they went bankrupt. The family that owns the place apparently doesn't know they still own the place.That's four abandoned houses within two houses of mine. How popular will MY house be on the market? There are a couple dozen other abandoned houses within a short walk that I'm aware of.Who wants to buy this house?I did go back and get re-trained for other work. Guess what? No one was willing to hire anyone in that field either unless they're very experienced. No entry level positions available in that career. Or pretty much ion anything if you're an LTUE.That's because the economy sucks. The economy that's in the recovery you are bragging about being so fucking outstanding.So, can't move because I can't sell this place, even if I could we can't move and have my wife loose her job, and the economy in Florida is in the toilet. Even if you re-train for something else. That's all just a pipe dream to funnel money to banks and colleges.Got it? And you think I should jump up and down to support your guy for not doing shit about it. Right.You certainly aren't representative of conservatives are you? Or are you?I volunteer with a group that helps out of work professionals. I am not alone. There are a couple of thousand in the same boat I am, or even worse. And I'm just talking about the ones I've met personally. So many have lost even more than I have, because they lost their families, too. Loose your job, loose your income. Loose your income and your savings go "Poof!" It might take a couple of years for that to happen, but it does. The house is underwater and now you're getting foreclosed on. That kind of stuff destroys marriages. So many of the people I meet have lost their families along with everything else.These are bitter times.These are college educated people, people that had long successful careers. Then the economy tanked. A lot of them voted for your guy because they wanted a change, needed a change. Instead we've gotten pure stagnation. It isn't getting better for any of us. It isn't getting better for the people in my black neighborhood either. All those empty houses I mentioned were full five years ago. Where'd they all go? I can't even guess. But 60 Minutes keeps coming back here locally to talk to homeless families. We've got a lot more homeless people, and a helluva lot more homeless families than when your guy was sworn in. And even more than we had when the "recovery" started.Times are tough. Times are miserable. And you are loving this, because you want to see people that aren't Democrats suffer.But what about all those blacks that have lost their homes? You celebrating that too? Or do you only love the misery of people that don't vote like you?What a miserable human being you are for enjoying the misery of others just for political kicks.
I'm SO glad I'm a Democrat and proud too, this conversation has proven to me I'm on the correct track. Thanks conservatives!,
Oh my God, what a bunch of hypocrites you conservatives are. You bitch and moan about unemployment benefits, SSDI, food stamps, yet when one of your own embodies what you usually sneer at , all you do is come up with excuses. Who sneers at those using unemployment benefits, SSDI, food stamps, etc?I've never seen any conservative sneer at people who need help.We complain that some people use that help for far longer than they should. That it fosters dependency. That the dependency it fosters is corrosive to self-reliance. That there are far too many able-bodied people who see no problem with other people paying for their comfort for most of their lives.But to use a helping hand to get back on your feet? No problem.The conservative viewpoint has always been:A hand up, not a hand out.Teach someone to fish, instead of just giving them fish and having them return for free fish for the rest of their lives.If you can't understand that, you have no basis to criticize conservatives for anything, much less call them hypocrites.But then, it has been shown over and over that liberals really don't understand conservative viewpoints at all, due to living almost entirely in the liberal echo chamber where any dissenting view is shunned and distorted.Epistemic closure.
Red Rocks, baby.
Inga, when the truth finally comes out about Benghazi, I will be sure to remind you that you were "proud" to vote for the man who was responsible for the worst foreign policy debacle of my adult life.Not that it will matter to you or garage I'm sure.But it will matter to some Americans. If we have any left.
If Icepick comes to Wisconsin, I will personally help him get into MATC and get a decent place to live, how about it Icepick? That's more than you hypocrites are offering him.You are offering me nothing. The only thing I want is a decent fucking economy, so I can get a job again. You and your God Zero have failed to do that.
Icepick, I know they are bitter times. Those housed do sell to companies who want to buy them up cheap, have you looked into it? Come to Wisconsin, I'll help you and your wife, seriously.
I myself doubt very much we'll see any significant rioting, unless there's some serious appearance of controversy in the electoral results. I think the bad polls have guaranteed controversy. Well, that and the perennial tendency of Democrats to project their worst behavior onto their opponents. When Romney wins outside the margin of fraud, the pro-vote fraud party is going to howl.
Inga is attempting to infantilize you, Icepick. hmmm who else does this?
Cosmic Conservative, I agree that this election is likely to be full of surprises, for one side or another or both. It's not just the particular political circumstances of this election that make the polling seem more erratic (or unfounded) than usual. I think, logistically and methodologically, traditional polling (by phone) might have reached its effective expiration rate. I think I read somewhere a remark by Rassmussen (or some other reputable polling org) that this would be the last presidential election in which polling would be done by phone. I wonder what new polling methodologies we might see in the future.
"Who sneers at those using unemployment benefits, SSDI, food stamps, etc? I've never seen any conservative sneer at people who need help."How quickly you forget. They're the 47%. They're the ones mocked in the ad post here. Or, just ask AprilApple.
And Icepick, I'm not offering you a handout, as you said it would be a hand up. MATC is accepting and actually looking for people for the trades. Milwaukee and surrounding area are doing fairly well in manufacturing
Inga, he doesn't want charity.He wants a job.He wants an economy that creates job.He wants a President who doesn't strangle job creation due to ideology and economic illiteracy.Icepick wants to make it through his own effort.He doesn't want dependency.He wants to have people not threaten his family for his political preferences.You, however, seem to be perfectly fine with people threatening him for his political preferences, and calling him a bullshitter for relating his experience.And you think being okay with physical threats for political preferences proves you are on the right track?
That last comment that Inga moo'd sums everything up: She is proud.You keep on being proud, you fat worthless piece of excrement. It is comforting to see the smug self righteousness of the kool aid drinkers personified, it will make it all the more satisfying to drink deeply of your sorrow on Wednesday morning.
"And Icepick, I'm not offering you a handout,...But she'll be more than happy to offer you numerous suggestions on how you should live your life.
You bitch and moan about unemployment benefits, SSDI, food stamps, yet when one of your own embodies what you usually sneer at , all you do is come up with excuses. Used up my UE benefits years ago. Don't qualify for food stamps. My wife's job does just enough for us to keep us out of any public assistance. Can't get SSDI, wouldn't take it if I could come up with a scam like so many have. I've got two friends that NEED SSDI, they're missing actual body parts and have other ailments, and I will not be a party to bankrupting the system that sustains them.I don't want a handout. I want a job. I want my career back. I want my life back. But you only care about getting your own incompetent lazy assholes elected. I don't even need a hand up, not if people were hiring again. I've got skills. I've got experience. I've got a four and a half year gap in my resume. Most of that is under the economic leadership of your guy. I just want a decent life for myself and my family. You're guys have been working against that, and telling me that I should be grateful for what little I've got left.
Nathan, how is it charity? He makes the first move to alleviate his situation I help him out and he gets back in the world of work.It's called community, decency, accountability, humanity.
Inga,Here's a story about a black pastor being threatened for supporting Obama:http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/11/03/Black-Pastor-Receives-Death-Threats-For-Reversing-Support-For-ObamaNo, wait. It is a black pastor receiving death threats for switching his support to Romney.More evidence that being Democrat means you are on the right track!
Yashu, I heard an interview of Scott Rasmussen where he talked about the problems of polling. He said his own company, and a few others (he didn't directly mention Gallup, but I got the idea he was talking about Gallup) have already started some polling techniques to get around the traditional land-line approach and are testing them out. He would not reveal what they were though. His comments suggested to me that they relied in part on using social media in some way.Quite honestly right now I can not fathom how this election is going to go. It's not because there are no indicators, there are plenty of very reliable traditional indicators right out there in front of us. The problem is that they say very different things.I said before and I'll say again. In general the "big picture" stuff favors Romney, but the detail view favors Obama.If nothing else the election might give us some idea of which perspective is the better way to view the election.
Sorun adds some humor. He implies Inga is the only one here to tell people how to live.
Ice Pick doesn't want a handout from you, Inga.How you twist things. IcePick relates his fears, you callously mock them and then, when you are slammed for being so cold and unfeeling, try to turn it around with an obviously insincere offer of help. (As if you really expected IcePick to say, "Gee, thank you, Gracious Lady! I'll be on your doorstep tomorrow!") You then blast everyone else because they're not offering to help - all so you can keep on telling yourself you are so much better, so much kinder, so much more compassionate than those terrible conservatives.
Inga, let me try to make this clear for you.Ice Pick is trying to tell you that he would not be in the position to be in any NEED of your "charity" if not for the absolute idiocy of liberal economic policies.In other words, to offer him a "hand up" with a smug sense of self-satisfaction that the "hand up" is offered by a liberal ignores entirely the view (accurate in my opinion) he has that it was the OTHER liberal FIST that knocked him down in the first place.
I'm not even telling him how to live, I'm offering suggestions on alleviating his circumstances, but it's evident he prefers his ideology over real solutions. Sad.
Nathan, how is it charity? He makes the first move to alleviate his situation I help him out and he gets back in the world of work.It's called community, decency, accountability, humanity.It's also called charity.But some people's moral code won't allow them to accept charity if they can avoid it.I see Icepick continuing to do everything he can to support his family. His wife is working, and he is trying to work.The problem of people threatening him because he won't support Obama isn't solved by moving away, is it?It can only be solved by Democrats facing up to their violent tendencies.But you don't want to face that, do you?Which is why you tried to shift the conversation to Icepick moving out.But let's not forget this point:Icepick's family was threatened because he won't support Obama, and you not only called him a liar, you made light of it.And you think this indicates you are on the right track as a Democrat?Really?
There is no excitement among Minnessota Democrats for the Presidential race. They are too busy with the ballot issues regarding Voter ID (will pass handily) and DOMA (probably won't pass but close). The lawn signs reflect the priorities. Obama isn't one. Even "White guilt" (which Lutherans revil in) seems to have been sisfied by the 2008 election. The "blueness" isn't very thick. Favorite son Walter Mondale won by LESS that 1 vote per precinct (which is why killing Voter ID is so important to Democrats). Lack of DFL enthusiam bodes well for Romney. He's the kind of "almost a Democrat" Republican that Minnesota voters prefer.
... and one more thought on this election.Sandy is not done yet.
The thing is, Inga, we don't need to make empty promises on a blog for appearance's sake.Remember how you hated having someone put your real name on the web?How is Icepick supposed to even find your doorstep?So it was an empty offer.But Icepick knows that if he shows up on any conservative doorstep, he will get helped.It goes without saying among conservatives.Not because he is a conservative, but because we don't turn anyone away when sincerely asked for help.Help is requested and given on a personal basis.Not through coercion or empty public offers.
Yup, never prouder to be a liberal and a Democrat than tonight.
"It can only be solved by Democrats facing up to their violent tendencies."Damn!
Nathan, something could be arraigned.
"I'm not even telling him how to live, I'm offering suggestions on alleviating his circumstances..."You're not telling him how to live, yet. But you would. Hell, you've already picked out a state for him to move to and a school he should attend.
Nathan you are one sanctimonious shit.
So, lots of whistling past the graveyard by liberals.Liberals (like Paulio, harrogate, et al) say that conservatives are fooling ourselves with outliers and poll shenanigans.But I put this challenge in another thread and no one answered:Is there any trend that favors Obama?Any poll trend or battleground state campaign indication?Romney has 30k at his rallies to Obama's 4k...in a place Obama brought in 80k 4 years ago.Dem turnout for early voting is below that of 4 years ago.Romney is campaigning in Obama's firewall states, states Obama carried by more than 10 points last election.If it were just Romney flailing, why is Obama then buying defensive ad buys in those same states, and campaigning in those states?If Obama were really winning, wouldn't he be campaigning in at least Florida, if not Missouri and North Carolina and Colorado?Obama supposedly won the last 2 debates...but Romney was the one who got debate bumps...four times!So, again:Are there any trends that indicate an Obama win at all?
Nathan you are one sanctimonious shit....meaning, you can't dispute anything I said, so you go make a personal attack, huh?Revealing.
"his ideology"Ah, yes, IcePick's "ideology." That dreadful ideology which makes him want to be a productive member of society instead of depending on handouts and the kindness of strangers. That horrible ideology.Why can't he accept the progressive ideology? He'd lose his self-respect, but hey, he'd get all kinds of neat free stuff from the government!
Nathan, something could be arraigned.Okay, now that is a funny typo!No sarcasm.
I'm supposed to leave the roof over my head, and my wife is supposed to leave her job, for the offer of help from someone that has been sneering at me and rejoicing in my suffering because I'm not a Democratic lackey. Yeah, that's a convincing offer!Teach someone to fish, instead of just giving them fish and having them return for free fish for the rest of their lives.Teach someone to fish that lives in the middle of a desert and you've wasted your time. Teaching anyone just about anything these days is the same as teaching a desert dweller to fish. The economy IS the desert.
Exiled, how would he be getting free stuff from the government if he would be in an apprentiship and working? That doesn't make any sense at all.
"Nathan you are one sanctimonious shit. ...meaning, you can't dispute anything I said, so you go make a personal attack, huh? Revealing."Ah, illogic by misdirection.
Icepick, that is a bullshit excuse. My son is working full time in his trade, MORE than full time hours, he just bought a house, he's a single 27 year old. There IS work here for tradesmen.
Inga, you do know that conservatives give about 30 percent more to charity than liberals do, right?
Twitter has, in fact, been ablaze with threats of rioting in case of a Romney win. I have not seen a single tweet of anyone threatening to riot in case of an Obama win. Make of that what you will. I certainly do.I have never wanted an election to be over so much in my life.When Obama was elected four years ago I predicted his arrogant, partisan, ideological demagoguery would tear this nation apart.So I'm pretty good at predicting some things.If you think it's bad now, if Obama wins, wait until 2016...
leslyn,And Nathan you are one sanctimonious shit is the height of logical discourse?Oh, yeah, you are a liberal: you don't have to be a decent human being anymore.
This whole thing has gotten too weirded out for me. Victims keep changing sides.
Here's some of the riot threats:http://twitchy.com/2012/11/02/as-election-day-nears-obama-supporters-step-up-riot-threats/leslyn thinks it beyond the pale that hoping Democrats would shame or discourage this sort of despicable behavior. Even hoping for it makes one a sanctimonious shit.And Inga is never prouder to associate herself with these sorts of people...and her solution is to find out where they live so decent people who don't riot or threaten violence for political views can move away from them.But I guess if all the liberals/progressives/Democrats got is hate, they embrace it.
Me too Leslyn, it's a topsey turvey world.
leslynWho is a victim?I just think it instructive to point out who is using personal attacks to avoid facing up to reality.
To a liberal, any time a non-certified "victim class" individual expresses any indication that they have been unfairly treated, that's turning the victim picture "upside down."Because they know deep down inside that you can only be a "victim" if you are a certified member of a "victim class."That's sort of liberalism 101.
"But I guess if all the liberals/progressives/Democrats got is hate, they embrace it."There's only one person around here I've seen dishing out hate and violence, and you're looking at him, Nathan.
"I'm not going to engage in any California dreaming..."My fellow California voters as a group are so backward and stupid on most issues that if they did start polling in Romney's favor, I'd probably vote for Obama. After watching the electorate here turn the most creatively prosperous, open and free state in the union into a third rate socialist corruptocracy, I would bet against their collective wisdom every time.
Nathan, I've wondered the same thing. It doesn't add up. Other trends: Romney has a big lead among white men (bigger than McCain had in '08) and, despite the "War on Women" horsecrap, Obama's advantage with women is significantly smaller than it was in '08. And Romney is up by double digits among independents. From my experience working the phones, I know that Republican enthusiasm is off the charts. As you said, the trends are all working in our favor - which is why I don't believe this race is as close as the polls are showing.I might be wrong, of course. I will be quite surprised if I am.
CC, that's too strange for me.
Inga is attempting to infantilize you, Icepick. Anything for her cause.Note that she wants me to get a trade. I studied mathematics in graduate school. I've been an actuarial analyst, a financial analyst (I was pretty good, too. I was the only guy at my company to predict the recession.), and I've learned other stuff along the way. I had crazy-mad spreadsheet skills, and you'd have had trouble finding many that could dig through data better than I could.Skills I've got. What I don't have is an economy that will allow me to use them. I even went into a job training program with the idea that perhaps I could restart in something else. No dice. No one wants to hire anyone without experience. Claims otherwise are complete bullshit, whether it comes from Bagoh or Inga. There just aren't enough jobs.THERE AREN'T ENOUGH JOBS.And no one wants to hire an LTUE. (That's Long Term UnEmployed to you.) If you're an LTUE you can't even get an interview at WalMart or Sam's or MacDonald's. I know because I've tried. I know because every month I meet with other LTUEs and they all report the same damned thing. I even know a couple of engineers that worked for NASA that can't find work. A couple of honest to Goddard rocket scientists, and they've been hosed as much as the rest of us.And the Inga's and garage's of the world think THIS is what we need more of. And the Inga's and garage's of the world love sneering at all the people like me because that's how small minded and small souled they are. The only goddamned thing they care about is that their party holds power in perpetuity, and Devil take the rest.Honestly I don't think Romney's going to be much better, but the current joke of a President deserves to be fired for his actions.
Those housed do sell to companies who want to buy them up cheap, have you looked into it? Come to Wisconsin, I'll help you and your wife, seriously.Before or after you sneer at me some more and call me some more names? You simply ooze sincerity.
Exile, that's what I mean by all the "big picture" indicators favoring Romney.But the state level polls, and even some of the national level polls favor Obama.Although it is an absolute mystery to me why anyone would support that empty chair. I weep for a nation that once valued self-reliance, responsibility, competence and basic human dignity.Ah well, all good things must pass. Pax Americana had a good run for a while. Maybe China can run the world for the next 100 years. I suppose they'll end up being brought down by insane social policies too. That's what happens to civilizations. Success breeds idiocy. It's inevitable.
leslyn, kindly point out where Nathan is threatening violence or being "hateful". (I realize that these days any criticism of leftist policies or beliefs qualifies as "hate" or "phobia" in leftist eyes.) You see and hear quite creatively, I must say. Most people would have to take at least 5 tabs of blotter acid to perceive the world as you do.
exile. It's in the kool-aid.
Cosmic Conservative: I am not gloating prematurely, but I am also not going to concede defeat prematurely either. I haven't written this country off yet.
Icepick, you are your own worst enemy. When you are offered help, you are too proud to accept. BUT you are not too proud to complain about your circumstances.
The economy IS the desert.Agreed. This is what much (though by no means all) of this election comes down to.
exile, when fully one half of the nation proudly expresses the views of garage, inga and leslyn, I'm afraid it's pretty much already over.
one more comment. For a nation to be exceptional, it has to WANT to be exceptional. For a nation to lead it has to WANT to lead. For a nation to be a superpower it has to WANT to be a superpower. For a nation to be a moral force it has to WANT to be a moral force.Liberals want none of these things. They're embarrassed by them.And they are winning. Because those things are hard. And doing hard things isn't really the goal of the liberal ideology.
I don't know if there will be any violence, but you got to love white chicks in the middle of Wisconsin arguing about racial dynamics in inner city Black neighborhoods. Next you can tell us about how getting kicked in the nuts really doesn't hurt from your perspective.
After watching the electorate here turn the most creatively prosperous, open and free state in the union into a third rate socialist corruptocracy, I would bet against their collective wisdom every time.While I don't buy into the idea that "at some point you have enough money" on an individual basis, I will entertain the notion that a culture can get too rich for it's own good. For instance, any culture that gets rich enough to ruin its economy by heavy investment in tulip bulbs may have lost sight of some fundamentals.I love the Dutch, and since that early lesson in learned stupidity they've done yoemens' work in making a country that's mostly below sea level work. But to the original point, we're about to find out if our country is willing to double-down on a dim tulip bulb. I'm hoping we aren't that rich.
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