December 25, 2012

The DC police are investigating the David Gregory incident "to determine if the magazine was in fact real."

Breitbart.com reports (and quotes the criminal statute).

What's to investigate? Here's the "Meet the Press" transcript. Gregory said:
Let's widen the argument out a little bit. So here is a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets. Now isn't it possible that, if we got rid of these, if we replaced them in said, "Well, you could only have a magazine that carries five bullets or ten bullets," isn't it just possible that we can reduce the carnage in a situation like Newtown?
Either he violated the criminal law or he lied. He certainly expected us to believe he held in his hand what he said he held. What made him think he could do that (or appear to do that)? He must think the law doesn't apply to him, or he wouldn't even pretend to break it.

IN THE COMMENTS: rhhardin said:
It seems like a chickenshit complaint, and a chickenshit law.

But Gregory is advocating that, which reaches mostly into humor.

He has to pretend to take seriously what he doesn't take seriously.

78 comments:

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Maybe he didn't know?

Wayworn Wanderer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Of course the law doesn't apply to him ! He voted for Obama !

Big Mike said...

He must think the law doesn't apply to him, or he wouldn't even pretend to break it.

@Wanderer, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Besides, he's got a producer and a staff.

On the other hand, how many liberals really believe in obeying the laws that they themselves pass? How many people push high taxes and then don't pay what they owe? Hint, Tim Geithner, who is either a tax cheat or too stupid to use TurboTax. How many liberals push for gun confiscation and have their own guns?

rcocean said...

Put Dave Gregory in jail? Have you thought of the downside? Imagine Rachael Madcow or Chris Matthews as MTP host.

Yes, Dave is a dopey, close-minded liberal who just asks whatever his producer writes, but there are worse 'journalists'.

DAN said...

He borrowed it from one of the guards at Sidwell Friends School where his kids go.

rhhardin said...

It seems like a chickenshit complaint, and a chickenshit law.

But Gregory is advocating that, which reaches mostly into humor.

He has to pretend to take seriously what he doesn't take seriously.

dreams said...

The liberal media can do whatever they want to and we conservatives can just cry about it all we want.

Bob said...

He'll double down this coming Sunday:

Last week, I held up one of these (holds up magazine) in my interview with NRA spokesman Wayne LaPierre. Many on the extreme right objected, saying that I was violating District of Columbia gun laws. After consulting with our attorneys we discovered that the First Amendment protections of a free press allowed the use of the said magazines. As a matter of fact, if I wanted to hold up one of these (grabs a Bushmaster rifle from under the desk) there'd be nothing you wingnuts could do about it, so BITE ME! BWWAAA HAAAA HAA!

Robin said...

Among the many frustrating things about the media circus over gun control is the many utterly false things the media moron talking heads say and do.

This weekend, Schieffer kept insisting that semi-automatic firearms were in fact fully automatic. And here we see Gregory waving around something that was in fact illegal in the jurisdiction.

Ignorance of the many existing firearms laws is widespread. But intentional misrepresentation is just as common.

rcocean said...

"He has to pretend to take seriously what he doesn't take seriously."

How do we know he's pretending?

Ann Althouse said...

"Maybe he didn't know?"

Didn't know what?

jimbino said...

If the magazine were disabled, it wouldn't be a magazine anymore, though it might look like one.

Maybe they removed the spring or welded it shut. Who knows?

Calling a disabled magazine a magazine is no more a lie than calling toilet in Home Depot a toilet.

Hagar said...

They do take seriously what they don't take seriously.

ChuckC said...

"Maybe he didn't know?"

Defense Attorney : "Your Honor, my client was not aware that his actions were illegal."

Prosecuting Attorney: "Curses, foiled again! The unbeatable 'I didn't know' defense!"

Hagar said...

One "unintended consequence" of outlawing "assault weapons" (semi-automatic rifles that Dianne Feinstein thinks look really scary) and high-capacity pistol and rifle magazines, is to make the trade in "illegal," or "undocumented" firearms and parts profitable and competitive.

Also the "smugglers" have easier access to real military weapons than the gussied up and tracked "civilian" ones, so you actually get more firepower on the street.

Synova said...

It does sort of show how stupid the law against the magazines is.

OnWisconsin1987 said...

It appears that the offense is a misdemeanor NMT 1 year or a $1000. I understand the delight in hoisting Gregory with his own petard, but is it wise to prosecute him and establish a precedent that even slight or unknowing violations will be prosecuted?

BDNYC said...

The law may be stupid, but the best way for stupid laws to be examined, amended, or repealed is for the authorities to actually enforce them. Trusting the authorities to do the right thing, to make special allowances, to exercise discretion, etc., is not the right answer. Everyone is equal under the law, or is supposed to be.

David Gregory should be prosecuted. Pro-gun people will condemn the law and call for its repeal, but nonetheless chuckle at the poetic justice of him being prosecuted. Anti-gun people will whine about the spirit of the law, praise the fundamental decency of what Gregory was trying to do, and beg their masters for leniency.

DADvocate said...

Comparing the clip Gregory holds up in the video and pictures I found that pretty much all look like this one, Gregory is holding a 30 round clip for an AR 15. The smaller clips don't have the curve in the body. Plus, estimating the width of Gregory's finger, the length is approximately correct for a 30 round clip.

Robin said...

OnWisconsi1987, Gregory is the perfect defendant on this idiotic law.

Lem said...

I always thought Meet the Press was a "reality" show.

Now we may get confirmation.

Chip Ahoy said...

It's a nice little got'cha but that's all. On the level of the crossword people when they find an error. It brings glee to hearts of the discoverers but that's all.

fivewheels said...

I like the idea that his defense will be that the magazine wasn't "real."

He can say, "Why, that prop was no more real than the explosion Dateline rigged on that truck, or that 911 tape we doctored up of George Zimmerman. It was total b.s., like all our news coverage."

Paul said...

Now if I got some pot and showed up on TV with it and saying we should have a stronger pot law well you think the cops would look the other way?

No?

So why should they look the other way when he shows up with a 30 round AR magazine in a city that bans them and demand stronger laws?

I say book him Dano.

Lem said...

He borrowed it from one of the guards at Sidwell Friends School where his kids go

That's very irresponsible of David Gregory to send his kids to a school where these violent assault weapons are kept.

He is sending Americas moms and dads the wrong signal.

Paul said...

DAN said...
"He borrowed it from one of the guards at Sidwell Friends School where his kids go."

You must might be right DAN! El Stupido just might have done that.

DADvocate said...

is it wise to prosecute him and establish a precedent that even slight or unknowing violations will be prosecuted?

Wayne LaPierre should make a public statement in strong support of Gregory's right to possess the clip and of everyone else's right to possess one also.

Lem said...

Gregory was aiming first and asking questions later.

DADvocate said...

Now if I got some pot and showed up on TV with it and saying we should have a stronger pot law well you think the cops would look the other way?

Good point. Comedian Ron White was fined for smoking a cigar during a stand-up act in Bismark, ND.

Who put the idiots in charge? (I know the answer to that question - do-gooder busybodies who don't know shit from Shinola.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

petard (n.) Look up petard at Dictionary.com
1590s, "small bomb used to blow in doors and breach walls," from Fr. pétard (late 16c.), from M.Fr. péter "break wind," from O.Fr. pet "a fart," from L. peditum, noun use of neuter pp. of pedere "to break wind," from PIE root *pezd- "to fart" (see feisty). Surviving in phrase hoist with one's own petard (or some variant) "blown up with one's own bomb," which is ultimately from Shakespeare (1605):

For tis the sport to haue the enginer Hoist with his owne petar ("Hamlet" III.iv.207).

See hoist.

dbp said...

The law should apply to everyone, or no one. It should especially apply to people who would like the law to be more strict.

It will set an example.

edutcher said...

Will we get to see him frog-marched out of NBC?

Crimso said...

"Didn't know what?"

It's hard to decide where to begin...

The Drill SGT said...

DADvocate said...
Comparing the clip Gregory holds up in the video and pictures I found that pretty much all look like this one, Gregory is holding a 30 round clip for an AR 15.


Trust me, I'm an expert on AR-15/M-16 Mags. Allen or Roger or Skyler will confirm.

that is an illegal 30 round Mag.

PS...
So here is a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets.

Magzines hold cartridges. Cartridges consist of casings (e.g. brass) plus powder, primer and bullets. bullets are what fall out of the front end of a rifle.

Big Mike said...

So here is a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets. Now isn't it possible that, if we got rid of these, if we replaced them in said[sic], "Well, you could only have a magazine that carries five bullets or ten bullets," isn't it just possible that we can reduce the carnage in a situation like Newtown?

Let me add to what Drill SGT just wrote. Gregory asks a question he means to be rhetorical, but the answer -- which would be a shock to him, I suspect! -- is negative. In another thread I linked to a basic training video where a trainee extracts a magazine and replaces it with another while moving forward. The effort takes a second or two. No more. Trust me, David, no one is going to be able to run to safety in a second flat.

("Trainee" is army-speak for the poor, sorry-assed grunts who are in their earliest stages of their military service and still trying to figure out which way to turn when the drill sergeant orders "right face." They are seldom proficient with military weaponry at that phase of training. Drill SGT is probably well aware of the type. 44 years ago next month I was one of them myself.)

Michael K said...

"PS...
So here is a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets.

Magzines hold cartridges. Cartridges consist of casings (e.g. brass) plus powder, primer and bullets. bullets are what fall out of the front end of a rifle."

So, it holds 30 bullets. You're dealing with idiots here. Don't be so dogmatic !

Big Mike said...

... but is it wise to prosecute him and establish a precedent that even slight or unknowing violations will be prosecuted?

@Wisconsin 1987, the answer to your question is negative for two reasons. First, because the law is the law and saying that Gregory should not be punished because he is rich and well-known and probably didn't mean it leaves us with a two-tiered system of justice. We seem to have a two-tiered system of justice in place already in the case of financial crimes (e.g., Geithner, Corzine), but enough is enough and it should not be extended to gun crimes. Second, because Gregory has all sorts of support staff, starting with his producer and on down to the schmuck who brings him coffee, and that includes legal support. He needs to be motivated to listen to legal. Maybe a few days in jail and $1000 out of pocket (not even "walking around money" in the case of a person with his income) will be a motivator.

The Drill SGT said...

To add to what big Mike said. The shooter always has a better count of the rounds expended that the shootees. That means that while a mag change takes 3 seconds, the shooter is going to be 2-3 seconds ahead of any victims in that race.

Trust me. It would be extremely hard to rush a trained shooter even if he were changing ten round mags, not 30's. Look at the Ft Hood shooter. He was a fairly inexperienced shooter. My God, he was a shrink :)

several experienced, trained soldiers tried to time his mag changes and died rushing him. I think he shot 40+ trained soldiers in close quarters without getting mobbed.

rushing the shooter is a poor hand at best, but may be the only hand available....

OnWisconsin1987 said...

Big Mike, the law is the law (sort of). Prosecutors do not prosecute every single person who breaks the law. They have discretion. They are allowed to consider resource allocation and undertake a cost/benefit analysis. Machen is likely to say that his Superior Court prosecutors are overworked. With Gregory's likely big guns and with just the crime just a misdemeanor, it is not worth the effort. Moreover, if convicted, Gregory is unlikely to get anything but a fine. That's asking a lot to make a point.

Now, what is interesting is how this would have played out if it were, say, LaPierre who got caught. Then, there would be a full blown GJ investigation with anyone associated (producer, gofer, supplier) charged with conspiracy and substantive charges and obstruction for getting rid of the magazine.

Cedarford said...

DADvocate said...
is it wise to prosecute him and establish a precedent that even slight or unknowing violations will be prosecuted?

Wayne LaPierre should make a public statement in strong support of Gregory's right to possess the clip and of everyone else's right to possess one also.

================
Wayne LaPierre should just shut up and go away. He is in thrall to the usual "slippery slope" extremists that infest most American special interest groups that argue that one scintilla of compromise will "send the Whole Cause plummeting down a slippery slope to utter destruction."

It is a time for the "not one inch of compromise" gun nutballs to realize that they need to protect the rights of gun owners best by proposing constructive solutions - not "we can address all issues but 30 round magazines and easy access of guns by psychos".

Rabel said...

FYI

Just in time for Gregory, but not yet in effect.

raf said...

Gregory's statement implies that commentary in the event of a 10-round magazine massacre would be "Well, at least he (or she) couldn't kill as many, this time."

So why is no one congratulating themselves because "at least he didn't have a Tommy gun."

I suspect the reaction to a 10-round mag-massacre would be a call to restrict firearms to single-shot. Nobody ever expresses thanks that a massacre wasn't worse.

Cedarford said...

Further, Wayne LaPierre's solution of more guns so we can have Armed Heroes at every school will give way to quick realization that few teachers - will have the training or disposition to abandon their class in lockdown and with their .32 ladies special. Not to rush at some frothing at the mouth paranoid schizophrenic in full Freedom Lovers!! body armor armed with an SKS with 6 30-round magazines and two backup gun afficionado pistols with "extra stopping power".

We have unfortunately transformed most elementary schools into 100% female employees by discouaging *spit* men who can be predators and lack the hen's caring and nurturing mothering of the grade schoolers.

Of course, that unsuitability of most teachers or Hero Armed Volunteers from the community would end up with realization that you need trained and well-paid Armed Heroes!! from the government. Which would be a huge, huge expense given 132,000 K-12 schools in the USA. And the 60% that don't own "Freedom! wepons!" would want the gunowners to pay most of the costs of the new Government Heroes! with spiffy uniforms and weapons.
Pay by state and local taxes to have 2-3 Armed Heroes sitting about and doing nothing at 132,000 schools. Which would be best put on the gun owners by requiring registration and assessing a 150-200 dollar tax on each weapon to pay for the new uniformed Hero Protectors of the Children.

Which is why Wayne LaPierre is such a fucking idiot, he will say whatever the worst, most hardcore gun nuts in the NRA want him to say to keep his job and his 800,000 dollar a year salary.
(Really no different than other very rich "heads" of other no-compromise special interest groups on the right or left, centered around ethnic self-promotion, or of course, the "no compromise" heads of unions beholden to please the absolute worst hotheads and greedy union members that don't care of they collapse a city with a 20% pension boost demand)

cryptical said...

Cedarford said...

It is a time for the "not one inch of compromise" gun nutballs to realize that they need to protect the rights of gun owners best by proposing constructive solutions - not "we can address all issues but 30 round magazines and easy access of guns by psychos".


The whole idea of proposing a compromise to my rights so you can feel safer is a fools errand.

If you think there is some law that would have prevented the tragedy, you go ahead and propose it. If it infringes on my rights, I'll be sure to tell you.

Make sure what you're proposing would have prevented the crime, no hand waving and you must show your work.

EDH said...

The Drill SGT said...
To add to what big Mike said. The shooter always has a better count of the rounds expended that the shootees.

"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

EDH said...

David Gregory to the DC District Attorney:

"Please don't 'say hello to my little friend'!"

betamax3000 said...

I'm still processing the implications of 4:48's "estimating the width of Gregory's finger."

Perhaps this can function as a unit of media malfeasance, such as "he/she has his/her head so far up his/her own ass they only have room left for 1.8 DGFW."

For further information, see: Chris Matthews Thumb Ratio.

Paul said...

raf,

The U.K. HAS banned all but single shots and double barreled guns. All handguns are banned. Most guns cannot be kept at home (must be at a club) unless proof of safe storage in the form of gunsafe and alarms. Location of where they are kept will be inspected.

Yet 'gun crime' (a joke of a word if ever there was one) is up as well as murders, muggings, robberies and the like. Guns, like drugs, are smuggled into the U.K. and homemade guns are also available.

Gun control does not work, especially if a large portion of the population feel IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO OWN GUNS.

Any such ban would make rise of the mob during Prohibition look like nothing, amd make the cartels look like pikers.

Robin said...

Cedarford, fortunately most NRA members are not as stupid as you. They don't think that they gain security by selling out their principles nor their compatriots.

We leave that to the morally bankrupt like yourself.

Cedarford said...

Cryptical - The whole idea of proposing a compromise to my rights so you can feel safer is a fools errand.

You know, I think America is falling apart because we have devolved into union members, gun owners, welfare recipients, greedy seniors, criminals, rights of the rich to be taxed at a lower rate than the middle class, and media all screaming about their fucking rights and to hell with the country.

The day of reckoning is coming.
Part of it will be forced by our fast slide into being a beggar nation.
Part of it will sorting out who pays for the societal costs of Freedom Loving Sandra Fluke's birth control, the damage private gun ownership does, the sacred 5th Amendment rights "God-given" to terrorists, the precious rights of welfare Obamaphone mommas, and the non-negotiable rights of government employee unions.

"Rights" can and will be compromised as America recovers from its 50 year long "Rights Festival" - by forcing duties, costs, and responsibilities on people in return for all those rights grabbed at with no sense that no right can be free, not even "Freedom".


Cedarford said...

Robin said...
Cedarford, fortunately most NRA members are not as stupid as you. They don't think that they gain security by selling out their principles nor their compatriots.

We leave that to the morally bankrupt like yourself

------------
Au contraire...you sound as stupid and short-sighted as city unions saying they don't care if they bankrupt and collapse the whole city and lose their jobs in the end - because any compromise is a sell out, and any union boss that gives an inch sells out the most extreme union members who will "make the betrayers of union principles pay."

Most gun owners are not libertarian gun nuts. And most are OK with some compromise and reject the same slippery slope argument made by welfare rights advocates and unions that ANY accomodation with others is a slippery slope to utter destruction of the poor or union members.

Maguro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maguro said...

Uh, Cedarford. "Compromises" have already been made. In Connecticut there are a whole host of "reasonable" gun control laws - licensing, background checks, fingerprinting, waiting periods, etc. - that failed to prevent this massacre.

The notion that an "assault weapon" ban or a ban on 30 round magazines or whatever arbitrary restriction the gun controllers dream up next will prevent massacres like this in the future is asinine. Having to change magazines every 10 shots is trivial when you're shooting up a building full of defenceless women and elementary school kids. You must know this.

Synova said...

Except that the compromise is simply to make someone feel good. Nothing is fixed, so when it happens again, you compromise again so that people can feel good?

At what point can we stop letting ourselves be ruled by other people's irrationality?

The fact is that even the NRA accepts severe compromises and limitations to the 2nd Amendment. The fact is, they don't get credit for that, and they won't get credit for the next compromise or the next.

Synova said...

For what it's worth... I don't like the idea of armed guards in schools. As someone mentioned, the cops in our schools are there for the gang bangers and drugs, not to protect the kids from outside threats. We're *this* close to letting our kids get chipped and it's not to protect *them*.

But I do think that controlling access to schools and middle school and high school campuses is a good idea and that a whole lot could be done related to building design that would be effective. Dismissing that out of hand is foolish.

And asking that teachers and staff who want to carry concealed in schools be allowed to do so, with whatever supplementary training seems appropriate, is not asking anyone to make up an armed response team or turn them into a cop or a commando.

DADvocate said...

I'm still processing the implications of 4:48's "estimating the width of Gregory's finger."

I'm funny like that. My finger is 3/4 an inch wide. I assume Gregory's fingers are narrower than mine since he's an elitist pussy who appears that wiping his butt is the most physical activity in which he partakes. I wear an extra large glove. He wears a children's glove.

DADvocate said...

Nobody ever expresses thanks that a massacre wasn't worse.

True. I have only seen a few comments here and there about being glad Lanza didn't use explosives or flammable liquids.

I'd respond to Cedarfud, but he "should just shut up and go away." I hear Antarctica is nice this time of year. It's summer there, you know.

AJ Lynch said...

Rrhardin:

My father used that word "chickenshit" on more than a few occasions. He was pretty precise and colorful in his choice of words. It is still a great word. Thanks for the reminder.

Moneyrunner said...

Glenn Reynolds makes the point that it took the Sandy Hook first responders 20 minutes to actually arrive. 20 Minutes! Does anyone actually believe that 10 round magazines would have reduced the number of murders in that school? Adam Lanza could have used a pistol, a revolver, a single shot gun or a sword and killed 26 people in that time. The fact is that in the absence of someone with superior firepower who was either at the school or could be there within a minute or two, the killer is the ability to do as much killing as he wants in a “gun free zone.”
Thomas Sowell has a good point when he says: If you don’t want to have a gun in your home or in your school, that’s your choice. But don’t be such a damn fool as to advertise to the whole world that you are in “a gun-free environment” where you are a helpless target for any homicidal fiend who is armed. Is it worth a human life to be a politically correct moral exhibitionist?

Sharc said...

"... a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets."

Who talks like that? It's absolutely a foreign language to him.

Tank said...

Others caught out the key phrase here

He must think the law doesn't apply to him...

Of course, Animal Farm. It's always Animal Farm. Everyone assumes they are the pigs.

Kit said...

I hope the DC Police have zero other gun crime to look into this month. Sheesh.

Firehand said...

On 'compromise':
"Then we compromised with the Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble), the HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble), the Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM), the School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)

I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being "reasonable", and wondering "why we won't compromise".

I'm done with being reasonable, and I'm done with compromise. Nothing about gun control in this country has ever been "reasonable" nor a genuine "compromise".
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2010/09/ok-ill-play.html
Read the whole piece.

On "We just need some more laws",
"Well, says the Small Arms Survey, a research outfit established by the Swiss government, the United Kingdom, with just shy of 1.8 million legal firearms, has about four million illegal guns. Belgium, with about 458,000 legal firearms, has roughly two million illegal guns. In Germany, the number is 7.2 million legal guns and between 17 and 20 million off-the-books examples of things that go “bang” (a figure with which the German Police Union very publicly agrees). France, says the Survey, has 15-17 million unlawful firearms in a nation where 2.8 million weapons are held in compliance with the law."
http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian
So all those laws, all that "We don't allow guns in OUR country" sneering, has worked real well, hasn't it?

As to Gregory, hell yes he should be prosecuted: he agrees with the law he violated, he should live up to his own standards. From what I've read they'd contacted the DC police and been told it would be illegal for them to have that magazine; they did it anyway. Prosecute.

As to 'setting a precedent', the DC PD has been screwing over honest people for having something firearms-related for decades now, THEY set the precent and Gregory loved it.

betamax3000 said...

Re: Animal Farm.
I'm thinking its more like Happy Days. Obama flatters himself to think he's Fonzie. The press would like to believe they are Richie Cunnigham, the cool guy's friend and his occasional moral compass. Sadly, none of them can hold a candle to Potsie.

jr565 said...

What's so ridiculous about this law is that he violated it by showing an empty clip. There weren't even any bullets in it.

Is anyone afraid that David Gregory will go on a shooting rampage?

jr565 said...

Saying we should have clips that only have 10 bullets instead of 30 means that you will have clips that are smaller than the larger clips. 2 of them would probably take up the same size as a 30 round clip. So, if you were seeking to arm yourself for a school massacre you'd simply take more clips and you could carry more becaus they are smaller.

The guy who shot up Luby's used two pistols, not an assault rifle.

jr565 said...

Big Mike wrote:
Let me add to what Drill SGT just wrote. Gregory asks a question he means to be rhetorical, but the answer -- which would be a shock to him, I suspect! -- is negative. In another thread I linked to a basic training video where a trainee extracts a magazine and replaces it with another while moving forward. The effort takes a second or two. No more. Trust me, David, no one is going to be able to run to safety in a second flat.

but someone could potentially get a shot off in one second flat if they had a gun on them and could aim it at the shooter.

jr565 said...

Further, Wayne LaPierre's solution of more guns so we can have Armed Heroes at every school will give way to quick realization that few teachers - will have the training or disposition to abandon their class in lockdown and with their .32 ladies special. Not to rush at some frothing at the mouth paranoid schizophrenic in full Freedom Lovers!! body armor armed with an SKS with 6 30-round magazines and two backup gun afficionado pistols with "extra stopping power".

they wouldn't have to abandon their class. They could set up some cover,get behind it and wait, with gun drawn for the shooter to come through the door with gun trained on the door.
Lanza shot up two classrooms of kids. Imagine if while he was shooting up the first the teacher was preparing to defend the second. It's certainly a much better defense than using your body to shield helpless kids from bullets.

The idea of the teachers "protecting the kids" by hiding in a room with no protection That reminds of Louis CK's comedy routine where he talks about how his daughter always wants to play hide and seek, but by her rules where she tells her dad where to hide. and when its her will hide in plain site and then Louis has to pretend to not see her. He can just point and say "yeah, you're there, because she"ll cry and shit her pants"
Adam Lanza isn't going to play by the daughters rules.

http://youtu.be/fqYxxZoXJVc

It's no defense at all.

jr565 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jr565 said...

Money runner wrote:
Glenn Reynolds makes the point that it took the Sandy Hook first responders 20 minutes to actually arrive. 20 Minutes! Does anyone actually believe that 10 round magazines would have reduced the number of murders in that school? Adam Lanza could have used a pistol, a revolver, a single shot gun or a sword and killed 26 people in that time. The fact is that in the absence of someone with superior firepower who was either at the school or could be there within a minute or two, the killer is the ability to do as much killing as he wants in a “gun free zone.”


that is the key point. A shooter like will keep killing until someone stops him or he stops himself. (Ie he runs out of targets, or ammo or,shoots himself) so then we're looking at the window of opportunity for the shooter.
Having someone on site will potentially limit that opportunity to seconds or minutes. Otherwise those stuck in the situation have to wait for cops with guns to travel to the site however long that MIGHT take.
And secondly, since someone is going to have to stop the shooter, or wait till he stops himself, what is the best way to stop him? Trying to charge him after he reloads? Cower in a corner?
Throw things at his head? Or a gun. The gun is the thing that would best level the odds.

And everybody knows it. Let's say that we instead wait for the cops. Are they not going to be bringing a gun to the fight? They're not going to try to wait for him to reload and then charge him. Or throw a rock at him.

So if we all recognize that its a gun that will stop him and that there is an issue with getting that cop to the site in a timely manner, it makes sense to have someone there at the time who could actually potentially levell the odds. And if they can't stop the shooter, they might at least buy enough time for the cops, again with guns, to get to the scene, so that THEY can shoot him dead.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

According to this post at Legal Insurrection, NBC asked the D.C. Metropolitan Police for permission to use the magazine and were refused, and then apparently went ahead and used it anyway.

Kirk Parker said...

C4,

"Wayne LaPierre should just shut up and go away."

I have no great feelings for LaPierre one way or the other, but if you would do likewise, I'd consider it a fair trade.

Scalawag!

Gahrie said...

We the American people need to demand that every politician, reporter and entertainer who proposes or endorses gun free zones give up their bodyguards, concealed weapons permits and private schools with armed security guards for their kids.

Synova said...

"We the American people need to demand that every politician, reporter and entertainer who proposes or endorses gun free zones give up their bodyguards, concealed weapons permits and private schools with armed security guards for their kids."

Or at least, you know, not figure they are entitled to be in possession of an illegal magazine, that would make any other resident a felon, on account of their heart is pure.

Kirk Parker said...

Synova,

In the interest of accuracy, I think DC law makes that a mere misdemeanor.

Goju said...

LaPierre is obviously some kind of stupid arrogant fool to suggest armed guards in schools. That would be in contrast to the genius of Bill Clinton having actually done it. There are armed police in many schools already.

DG should not only be presecuted,he should get the maximum sentence. Hell, if the DC police did tell NBC not to use the mag - DG and whatever staffers were involved should also be charged with conspiracy.

And if LaPierre is stupid, what does that make DG? DG just proved the NRA's main point. Laws only affect those who obey the law. DG has completely undermined the whole anti-gun argument.

Broomhandle said...

The SKS has a fixed 10-rd. magazine. Knowing what you're talking about before you talk about it strengthens even the lamest argument.