December 22, 2012

"When I was a CCW instructor, I decided that I wanted more teachers with skin in the game, so I started a program where I would teach anybody who worked at a school for free."

"I personally taught several hundred teachers. I quickly discovered that pretty much every single school in my state had at least one competent, capable, smart, willing individual."
Some schools had more. I had one high school where the principal, three teachers, and a janitor showed up for class. They had just had an event where there had been a threat against the school and their resource officer had turned up AWOL. This had been a wake up call for this principal that they were on their own, and he had taken it upon himself to talk to his teachers to find the willing and capable. Good for them.

144 comments:

MadisonMan said...

At some point, I suppose CCW will mean something other than counter-clockwise to me. As it is now, it takes a while to make sense.

AprilApple said...

I'm not finished reading .. but I thought this was interesting:

1.Oregon. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter confronted by permit holder. Shooter commits suicide. Only a few casualties.

2.Texas. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.

3.Connecticut. GUN FREE ZONE. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.

4.China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a KNIFE stabs 22 children.

Rusty said...

guns er bad m'kay.

EDH said...

What's a "resource officer"?

Didn't the CT shooter finish shooting and kill himself all before the police arrived?

Surfed said...

I've been through having a classroom shot up by a student in 1991. Long story that I won't go into here. Every school in my county now has an armed police officer on staff with his own office. Some of the more troubled schools have several officers. Guns handled by adults in a school is a good thing. Trust me on this one.

Big Mike said...

@MadMad, try "carrying a concealed weapon."

Tim said...

He is exactly right.

Far better, given the governing Left's ownership of the nation's public school systems, to simply allow competently trained school employees and officials to carry concealed weapons.

It creates uncertainty in the mind of the potential attacker, which increases risk the attacker will be unsuccessful. This alone should have a deterrent effect on the number of attacks.

And, in cases in which the attacker proceeds anyway, it increases the chances the attacker will be stopped earlier rather than later.

It's not perfect, of course, but nothing will be.

300 million firearms in the US, the vast majority of them owned lawfully by law-abiding citizens, but too many not, that no reasonable, constitutionally-based law or program will ever be able to sweep up from criminals bent on violence.

That's just reality.

Big Mike said...

@EDH, the news reports said that the Newton shooter killed himself when the police arrived, apparently instead of shooting it out with them.

Of course who trusts CNN these days?

edutcher said...

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

That's what it was there for.

These days the savages aren't Iroquois or Huron, but the principle's the same.

Pastafarian said...

The obviousness of this solution, arming and training teachers and administrators, dooms it.

If a solution to a problem isn't counterintuitive enough to make its proponents seem clever, it will gain no traction on the left.

Leland said...

It's a great post on the matter. A long read, but it covers a lot of territory.

Leland said...

Pastafarian, the solution has no potential for graft. It's doomed politically.

mark said...

From the article

"The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5. The reason is simple. The armed civilians are there when it started."

Anti-gun nuts are just that ... nuts. But hey, they think "good thoughts" for the kids. I suppose that means something for the dead.

madAsHell said...

My grandfather taught high school physics. He also coached the high school rifle team.

There wasn't a rifle team in my high school.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

We had a rifle/team in my school. No one though it the least bit odd. Most of those guys and one gal also were on the golf team. And two of them grew up to be lawyers.

:-)

Big Mike said...

And two of them grew up to be lawyers.

What more proof do you need that they were evil?

Tim said...

mark said...

"From the article

"The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5. The reason is simple. The armed civilians are there when it started."

Anti-gun nuts are just that ... nuts. But hey, they think "good thoughts" for the kids. I suppose that means something for the dead.""


You are exactly right.

Gun control nuts would rather 11.5 more people die per incident than for one more law-abiding citizen to buy one more gun.

garage mahal said...

Take the fake guns away and install TSA everywhere. Sounds like a plan!

jd said...

will you all promise to still be so trusting of teachers and so concerned about spending enough money to properly address mental healthy concerns in a few months?

glenn said...

This should work out just at it appears to be working out. Schools and communities where there remains some common sense will proect their schools and their children. Others won't, then there will be results. Those communities that decide to make their schools "Gun Free Zones" and ignore the odd kid who is real quiet will get one result. Others another. And we still live in a country where people get to choose.

jr565 said...

I really have to laugh when two commenters mocked Meghan Mccardle for suggesting that students should be taught to bum rush the shooter when one of these events occurs.

It's really funny because, that is literally the only protection being offered to them by the schools if htere isn'ta guard in place. The teachers and the students have to deal with the issue. How is that going to work out against someone with a gun? Hmmm?

Do those arguing against the NRAs suggestion of having an armed guard in a school not realize that that is exactly what they are suggesting would need to happen?
And yet Meghan is crazy for suggesting preparing kids for that eventuality.

KIds and teachers will need to act as the speed bumps until the cops arrive. Does that sound right?

"They had just had an event where there had been a threat against the school and their resource officer had turned up AWOL. This had been a wake up call for this principal that they were on their own, and he had taken it upon himself to talk to his teachers to find the willing and capable. Good for them.
That is exactly right. THe school kids and teachers are on their own. Sounds kind of scary for the kids.
But that's what we should accurately suggest is the anti gun advocates policy implications to kids.
"You're on your own".

As my whimsy leads me.. said...

Since the government requires that parents send their children to school, and, in most cases, those schools are operated by the government, the government should make reasonably sure that the students will have protection in case of an attack. There are usually more kids in a school building than passengers on an airplane, but look how much effort is made to protect them.

Toy

traditionalguy said...

In the late great 1950s the ROTC was still honorable, and they had a rifle team.

The team was 8 guys and used 22s with target shooting barrels. The best shots in practice were chosen to be one of the 5 who shot at the week's match. We went to matches at other schools.

We practiced in the basement armory range behind the racks of a hundred M-1 Garands that every cadet used in drilling.

Which reminds me that the Army Sargent running the team and taking us to competitions promised a steak dinner to anyone who shot a possible in kneeling position during a match. I did, but he did not. This was a lesson.

tom scott said...

Garage said:
Take the fake guns away and install TSA everywhere. Sounds like a plan!

Yeah, a plan for Benghazi.

William said...

It's practical, inexpensive, and doable. So it won't be done. The most likely measure is that the city works with the police union to rig up a program of cushy jobs for retired cops.

Michael K said...

The NRA is damned for suggesting the obvious step to take if we are not going to do anything about severe mental illness. Nothing will ever be done except a few sensible school principals who keep their mouths shut.

garage would quickly turn them in to the local civil rights police.

traditionalguy said...

Reading his too long opinion piece is worth it. He gets it.

Jay said...

In CT there are background checks, a waiting period, and gun registration. In addition to an "assault weapons ban"

Connecticut is by no means a "gun friendly" state.

Yet the gun grabbing left is still in hysterics about these undefined "common sense" measures we are supposed to enact.

I guess the abject failure of the policies they support is a virtue for these idiots.

jr565 said...

Since the government requires that parents send their children to school, and, in most cases, those schools are operated by the government, the government should make reasonably sure that the students will have protection in case of an attack.

If it were a govt building would the suggestion that an armed guard be available be some crazy notion?
I'd love to see them alternatively take away all the metal detectors and security at the various capitol buldings.
Because, really, what could happen? Why should you have to feel like you're enering into a police state when visiting your congressmen's office.
We would save millions by not scuring the buildings. What say you congress?

jr565 said...

that should say, "we could save millions of dollars (not millions of people) by not securing the capitol buildings.

For me, but not for thee seems to be the cry of all the "important people" in the world.

Freder Frederson said...

Texas. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.

You forgot about this one

garage mahal said...

The NRA is damned for suggesting the obvious step to take if we are not going to do anything about severe mental illness

Sure, let's take the obvious step and test LaPierre for mental illness. I wouldn't trust him with a gun around me.

Jay said...

Freder Frederson said...
You forgot about this one


Note that a Military style assault weapon was not used in that incident.

Seeing Red said...

The gun control whackos think people are like them, soft, fuzzy, only want the best and aren't a threat, why do we need guns?

They only want to do good, why won't you let them?

Inga said...

Adorable avatar Garage!

I certainly hope that public school teachers get more respect from the right wing after this.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

jr565,

For me, but not for thee seems to be the cry of all the "important people" in the world.

Yes. If I saw even one prominent public official or one gazillionaire declare publicly that s/he would never carry a gun, nor be guarded by anyone who carried a gun, I would be impressed. I have not seen anyone do that. As a rule, "everyone who is anyone" is positively ringed round with guns; it's the remainder of the law-abiding populace that is not supposed to be.

Tim said...

It is pathetic how quickly the trolls out themselves as not having read the article.

Tim said...

"I certainly hope that public school teachers get more respect from the right wing after this."

On what basis should that be?

Rabel said...

EDH asked:

"Didn't the CT shooter finish shooting and kill himself all before the police arrived?"

Other than the vague news reports mentioned by BIG MIKE, I haven't seen an official timeline on the shooting.

One thing that concerns me, 22 children were shot and all 22 died. I've never before seen that mortality rate in a mass shooting, military or civilian.

How long did it take to get medical aid to the children and was that aid delayed by today's all-consuming emphasis on officer safety?

Tim said...

"Note that a Military style assault weapon was not used in that incident."

Do we really know that?

Any of those pistols could have had black plastic parts.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Inga,

I certainly hope that public school teachers get more respect from the right wing after this.

You mean, public school teachers like Ann? UW/Madison being a public school and all.

I respect public school teachers, being (among other things) married to one. I am not sure what your point is, though. "Hey, six public school teachers just got killed trying to defend their students; therefore anyone attempting to limit collective bargaining by public-sector employees is obviously on the side of mass child-murderers"? The logic is a tad obscure.

Jay said...

One thing that concerns me, 22 children were shot and all 22 died

I read that he shot each of them 3 times.

Rabel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabel said...

Jay wrote:

"I read that he shot each of them 3 times."

People, children included, frequently survive multiple gunshot wounds. 22 of 22 is hard to understand if they received medical help in a relatively short period of time.

Deleted and reposted with comma added for clarity.

Paul said...

Freder, funny you should mention that. Penn and Teller did one of their Bullshit shows on gun control and featured a woman who was there and witched the gunman murder her parents.

She tells the story starting about 2:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIKlO20RqM

Paul said...

Watched.

Inga said...

Michelle, my point should be obvious, or have you forgotten the demonization of public school teachers in Wisconsin during the protests? I read quite a bit of it here on this blog. "Hogs at the public trough" was a popular slur on teachers during and since that time. It was and still is shameful.

Bob said...

Darcy linked to this article in her post on the "Listen I don’t necessarily think having an armed guard outside every classroom is conducive to a positive learning environment." thread.

"The idea of arming school personnel is alarming to most people at first blush, but this article persuaded me that it is not alarming at all. It's common sense!"

Bob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
From Inwood said...

This post has gone viral.

As has been pointed out by The Best & The Brightest, there haven’t been any mass shootings there since Australia & the UK instituted massive gun bans and confiscation – a program which would not work here but let’s try it anyway☺. Now Cuomo The Lesser has suggested that for NYS.

QED….

Er, except for the vast increase in crime, Mrs Lincoln....

But not to worry all ye would-be gun banners, The Best and The Brighest have proven beoynd a doubt & with geometric logic (click, click go the steel balls) that crime stats are immaterial and in no way related to the bans/confiscations.

The author's conclusion (edited) is worth repeating:

It is never compromise on the part of the anti-gun people; rather it is always, what can we take from you this time, or what will enable us to grow some federal apparatus?

Then
• regular criminals will go on still not caring,

• the next mass shooter will watch the last mass shooter be the most famous person in the world on TV,

• the media will keep on vilifying the people who actually do the most to defend the innocent,

• the ignorant will call anti-gun control people names and tell ‘em that they must like dead babies, and

• nothing actually changes to protect our kids.

I would add that one might conclude (silently perhaps, lest he/she be accused of being a conspiracy theorist) that these low-information anti-gun people like to pass Big Fruitless Laws & declare victory until the next mass shooting after which they will lobby for another Big Fruitless Law so that they can again declare victory until the next mass shooting.

We, who are not living in a cocoon, realize sadly that while they are personal tragedies, mass shootings are headline-making statistical anomalies. If we're ever shot, chances are that it’ll be by guy who’s trying to rob us or burgle our houses, which won’t even make the evening news with Geraldo.

Seeing Red said...

By Inga's logic, if a conservative or a republican threw him/herself in front of an armed whacko to save a child, she'd start saying, "I hope conservatives & republicans get more respect from the left-wing after this?"

This happened to be in a school.

Does anyone remember the Brown's Chicken massacre in Palatine, IL?

Seeing Red said...

England also has a law that you get a pass if you steal is it $500 or under, or is it about 500 pounds and under?

And if you try and defend yourself with a knife or baseball bat, meet Old Bailey or Pentonville.

Chef Mojo said...

Inga's point is painfully and embarrassingly obvious.

It's relevancy to the discussion at hand, however, is not.

Although I have to admire such simpleminded persistence over the past few days in making such an irrelevant point.

Give her a gold star for effort.

Bob Ellison said...

That's an amazing essay. I can't believe I read the whole thing. He writes like a fast-shooting weapon.

Bob said...

Of course it is better to have some adults in every school who carry guns.
It took the police 20 minutes to get there (If they had Google maps, they could have done it in SEVEN).
Carrying a gun is not for everyone - especially not for some of the libtard whack jobs currently teaching.

Chef Mojo said...

It's a very good and lucid essay, and it puts forth some very good and positive ideas. Most of all, it supports those ideas with facts.

The lefties, however, will just cover their ears and scream, "LALALALA-I-CAN'T-HEAR-YOUUUUUU!!!"

Curious George said...

"Chef Mojo said...
Inga's point is painfully and embarrassingly obvious.

It's relevancy to the discussion at hand, however, is not.

Although I have to admire such simpleminded persistence over the past few days in making such an irrelevant point.

Give her a gold star for effort."

The only thing obvious about Inga is that she is a moron. The "point" in question isn't even her original thought. It was purple penguin's. Inga just has become totally focused on it. Like a retard does with a shiny thing.

Inga said...

One way to learn is by repetition and it's germane to this discussion.

If you encourage teachers to take on this added responsibility, the very LEAST that you could give them is respect. Also gun carrying teachers should be compensated monetarily, this is no small added duty.

Inga said...

Curious George, are you so simple minded that you can't fathom that perhaps MANY people are thinking the same thing regarding teachers and the lack of respect and demonization they have been subjected to in the past two years? How many teachers do you think may be saying this very thing? Or do you not think?

Perhaps you and Mojo should start thinking with your human brain instead of your tiny monkey one.

Chef Mojo said...

Inga, you silly bint. Your entire argument assumes that teachers are a collective and not individuals.

As individuals, some are due respect and some are not. It depends on the circumstances.

If a teacher rapes one of his/her students, is that teacher still due respect in your mind, simply because they're a teacher? If those individuals take actions within the community that the community deems harmful, should the norms of the community dictate "respect" towards the role those individuals play within the community? A corrupt cop is still a cop. Do you respect that cop? An incompetent teacher is still a teacher. Do you respect that teacher?

Your continued, tedious point is based on a false and absurd assumption that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

However, playing the role of fool on this, and other threads is your individual choice. Expect mockery and derision from most of us as a result.

Chef Mojo said...

In the meantime, I'd love to see some of the more lucid leftists around here actually address Larry Correia's essay and ideas, critically or positively, with the same attention to detail and reason he has.

In other words, discuss the issue at hand based on the arguments presented, without soundbites and irrelevancies.

Chef Mojo said...

After all, it's the leftists insisting we have a "national conversation/discussion." Well, Larry Correia is carrying on that conversation and, incidentally, he's mopping the floor with you.

Alex said...

Inga - respect has to be earned. They could start by now voting for Democrats 100% of the time.

Seeing Red said...

Simplistic appearance thinking, Inga.

You don't see people as individuals.

It's like people who argue private sector people bad or slave owners vs. working for the government is good.

The biggest thieves aren't in the private sector.

They can only thieve what the government allows, or the Chicago motto, "Where's mine?"

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Monkey men, I have said I was in favor of arming teachers and in favor of armed guards at schools since last Friday. Perhaps you have forgotten this or you simply refuse to acknowledge that I said it. Whatever.

You and your monkey brained brother rarely have anything of substance to add to any conversation, you two are merely insult bots who always show up when a liberal makes a point you don't want to acknowledge because it makes your side look bad, as you two surely do.

If I were a conservative, I would be quite ashamed of you and your behavior.

Seeing Red said...

--One way to learn is by repetition and it's germane to this discussion. --

Maybe you should take your own advice and study history, especially a certain Austrian's from the 20th century?

Why are you in this country again?

Someone who took away guns and had delusions of grandeur?

Yet your thoughts are good because you're a "good person" and the opposition isn't because we "vote against our own self-interest."

Once again, you see the collective, you don't get to know us individually so you really don't know if we vote against our own self-interest.

What gets you is we vote against your self-interest which should be so blindingly obvious to us that of course we should agree. So we neanderthals must listen to your mind-numbing repetition, no matter how many times, how many good arguments we counter with.

Do you consider yourself indirectly a teacher here so we should respect your opinion?

This is a part of the whole, you can't see how it's all connected and why the great unwashed needs to protect themselves.

You cannot fathom the thread which connects these arguments thru history.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
of their own conscience."
C.S. Lewis


No matter how many times in how many ways we show a failure of liberal ideas, no matter how many times we repeat ourselves, you don't get it.

Seeing Red said...

Shame, what an old-fashioned, quaint notion. Liberals got rid of that, own it.

Seeing Red said...

--If you encourage teachers to take on this added responsibility, the very LEAST that you could give them is respect. ---


People who have a CCW permit and take it on already accepted the responsibility and don't get paid for it.

Where is the respect for them? Where has the respect for them been for years?

They've been demonized.

Now if you want to get into the specifics of who should buy the guns & pay for the training.....that's a different discussion.

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
The NRA is damned for suggesting the obvious step to take if we are not going to do anything about severe mental illness

Sure, let's take the obvious step and test LaPierre for mental illness. I wouldn't trust him with a gun around me.


Try not being an ass. If I'd trust you in the field with a loaded gun. I'd trust you in the street with one.

Big Mike said...

@Inga, I fully answered you regarding respect for teachers yesterday. If teachers want respect they have to accept getting rid of bad teachers. Everybody knows who has anger management issues and screams at her helpless students. Everyone knows who's burned out and barely going through the motions anymore. Everyone knows which teacher throws her students' homework in the trash and then flunks them for not turning in their homework assignments. Everyone knows who thinks she's honoring Martin Luther King's memory by dumping all over the white children in her class.

People like than don't belong in the teaching profession. If teachers want respect then get rid of them, don't help protect them from parents who have the effrontery to want good educations for their kids.

Arming bad teachers won't make good teachers out of them.

Chef Mojo said...

Monkey men, I have said I was in favor of arming teachers and in favor of armed guards at schools since last Friday. Perhaps you have forgotten this or you simply refuse to acknowledge that I said it. Whatever.

Why should I acknowledge something I don't take issue with, Inga. Should I compliment you for not crapping your pants?

What I take issue with is your stupid and irrelevant point about respect of teachers being related to whether they take it upon themselves to protect their wards with firearms as opposed to their behavior in strikes and work stoppages. One does not relate to the other, and does not further the discussion at hand. You insistence of referring to teachers as a monolithic group devoid of individual identity, as well as regional diversity and norms makes you ripe for, and deserving of, insult. You bring the insult upon yourself for taking a lucid view - which I agree with - and negating with a brain stompingly stupid point that has no relevance to the valid points you've made.

I cannot fathom that you do not understand this very simple concept.

jr565 said...

INga wrote:
Monkey men, I have said I was in favor of arming teachers and in favor of armed guards at schools since last Friday. Perhaps you have forgotten this or you simply refuse to acknowledge that I said it. Whatever.

Ah, so you think that the NRA has the right position and the dems/libs demagoging it are in fact the extremists?

Inga said...

No, I don't Jr.

I am concerned for the safety of my grandchildren and all the other innocent victims of gun violence in schools and malls and theaters and whatever other public venue some nsane shooter can think of. We are an armed nation, we brought this upon ourselves, now we can look like the gun worshipping nation we have become. Armed guards everywhere.

We have more than 50% of the world's guns here in our small nation. We should be so proud.

Inga said...

Big Mike, I have several very good friends who are public school teachers here in Wisconsin, they don't fit your profile at all, yet were subjected to the same demonization.

These women and one male buy their students mittens and hats out of their own pockets, supply their students with pencils and paper, and other school supplies out of their own pockets. They are on Facebook continuously soliciting finds for a science project or field trip, etc. these are dedicated teachers who were treated like the enemy during the protests here in Wisconsin.

It's going to take a while to forget that.

Chef Mojo said...

We have more than 50% of the world's guns here in our small nation. We should be so proud.

I know I am.

But I don't doubt that an Austrian immigrant wouldn't quite get why.

However, my English, Scottish, Irish and German ancestors certainly got it.

Inga said...

Chef, unless you are a Native American, shut the fuck up, you disgusting bigot.

Tim said...

Chef Mojo said...

"In the meantime, I'd love to see some of the more lucid leftists around here actually address Larry Correia's essay and ideas, critically or positively, with the same attention to detail and reason he has."

Don't hold your breath, Chief.

traditionalguy said...

Good comments are coming from Inga. This is an issue about which liberal women are more rational than we ever expected. So why attack them for that.

And why is their a continuous sneering attack on Sonia Sotomayor as if she is fair game. She has done nothing to deserve that.

The first requirement for a good guardian should be good enemy recognition. Inga is not an enemy.



Tim said...

"We have more than 50% of the world's guns here in our small nation. We should be so proud."

Yes, indeed we should be.

The problem isn't law-abiding citizens with guns.

The problem is criminals.

And for that, your answer is to mock law-abiding citizens for owning guns.

Your stupidity is immeasurable.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Also FYI, I am not Austrian, I was merely born there. That does not make me a citizen of Austria or a native Austrian. My ancestors are German who lived in Eastern Europe since 1720, until the end of the second WW. You are an idiot.

Chef Mojo said...

These women and one male buy their students mittens and hats out of their own pockets, supply their students with pencils and paper, and other school supplies out of their own pockets. They are on Facebook continuously soliciting finds for a science project or field trip, etc. these are dedicated teachers who were treated like the enemy during the protests here in Wisconsin.

And of course they insisted on extra compensation for this, right?!?

No?

Then, why should teachers who wish to protect the lives of their students be prevented from doing so? Those that will, will do so out of a feeling of responsibility and dedication to their students, Inga, just the same as your friends do. I have a number of friends and relatives who do the same thing. My wife is an adjunct professor at a local state university. She gets paid by the course and gets no bennies at all. Yet she has a fierce dedication to her students.

You lumping together people from the right as being totally disrespectful of teachers shows you know little of people on the right, and it does you no credit.

Inga said...

Do not address me Mojo, you disgusting bigot.

Paco Wové said...

In what way is the U.S. a "small nation"?

Chef Mojo said...

Oh, please, Inga!

You have an extremely Euro-centric attitude towards firearms ownership. You don't get it. You never have gotten it.

And my pointing this out is somehow "bigotry."

I really don't think you understand the meaning of that word. In fact, I guarantee that you don't.

And yes. I'm a native American. My ancestors have been in this country since the 1630s. The last of my ancestors to immigrate came in the 1860s from Prussia. My family covers a myriad of political beliefs, and yet we're all believers and supporters of gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment. Liberals and conservatives both, and everything else in between. We've never lost sight of the dangers of tyranny.

You, on the other hand? Not so much.

Chef Mojo said...

Ah, perfect! Cue Inga stomping her little feet in mock outrage, because she can't make her argument!

Inga, you're such a predictable bint.

Spare me. And I'll adress you all I want. Who do you think you are, you silly bitch? Do you really think you get a veto on my "addressing" you?

LOL! Go pound your "address" up your ass.

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:
I am concerned for the safety of my grandchildren and all the other innocent victims of gun violence in schools and malls and theaters and whatever other public venue some nsane shooter can think of. We are an armed nation, we brought this upon ourselves, now we can look like the gun worshipping nation we have become. Armed guards everywhere.

But you think those armed guards should be in schools, right?

Inga said...

Monkey, perhaps you are fit not to do anything but cook, you are unintelligent and vile. You are not 100% Native American, so as I said shut the fuck up about immigrants, you show your bigotry and extreme ignorance.

Inga said...

Yes I do Jr., for the umpteenth time now since the Friday the massacre happened. YES.

My grandchildren, your children, our nation's children are that important, that I would break with most liberals here and out there.

As I said earlier and I reiterate, it's nothing to be proud of that we as a nation have come to this.

jr565 said...

If Inga thinks that armed guards should be in schools, she is agreeing funamentally with the NRA's position. IN fact that is THE position that the media is talking about now as being extreme. The audacious argument that teachers should be armed.

So Inga, is an extremist?

Chef Mojo said...

Inga screeches, "Bigot!"

So, enlighten me, please. What is a native American? Do you mean Indians? But even the anthropological record doesn't support that Indians are "native Americans" from the definition you are supposedly using, so...

... go piss up a rope.

I'm as native an American as any American born here.

Again, you have no understanding of the word, "bigot." Spare me your ignorance, go pout in the corner and nurse your butt hurt.

This is what you do every time you crash and burn here.

There, there. Stomp your little feetsies some more! Get it out of your system, so you can at least attempt a clear thought. There's a good girl...

Inga said...

Gawd, you're an idiot Mojo. Go cook something.

Chef Mojo said...

O, Inga! I'm sooooo sorry!

I "addressed" you!

My bad. Oh, crap! There I go again!

[snicker...]

Now, go away, before I "address" you again, you silly Austrian/German/whatever bint!

Cedarford said...

Keep in mind that if you do have Heroes with CCW, they may not necessarily respond like cops, but more like the armed security guard at Columbine.
Meaning looking out for their own ass is the #1 priority. To seek cover and wait for the police to arrive and fire only if the gunman is coming at them and not others...perhaps to guard all the people in a classroom in Lockdown!! and only act if the gunman tries getting in that classroom next.

1. To leave the class, break with lockdown policy and abandon them to rush into danger half the school property away? I wouldn't assume it will happen.

2. Many school Districts have effectively discouraged hiring male teachers - 100% female staffs in elementary school are not unusual. Ironic in these days of "sex discrimination". But you end up with a pool of liberals who are mostly or all women who have never been in a serious physical fight but have a Masters degree in use of color as a teaching enhancement. Who have great difficulty even imposing discipline in a classroom. As opposed to a ex-Army Ranger with experience but lacking a Masters degree but who could start by imposing discipline in a classroom and would be a more likely Armed Hero than a female teacher with 3 kids in other schools..

3. If the ability to let psychos get high-powered rifles with large magazines is the price of Freedom! - shouldn't teachers and staff also be able to equal the odds with their own AK-47s and AR-15s carried in class??

4. There are issues with state immunity from accidentally shooting innocents during a firefight, the lack of lavish benefits if a Armed Hero is killed or maimed in said firefight, lack of ability to comm by radio with arriving other 1st responders trained to shoot any adult they see with a firearm not wearing a government uniform...
As things stand, any Armed Hero lacks the protections and good deals and incentives for hazardous duty cops get.

Alex said...

C4 - are you telling me the average female teacher can't be a Todd Beamer? LOL.

Inga said...

Cedarford, veterans would be a good choice to do this job. The minimum wage paid "rent a cops" aren't well trained, I don't want them around my grandkids. Of course we would have to do thorough screenings to make sure there aren't any with significant PTSD.

Chef Mojo said...

Inga, the funny thing is; I am cooking something while I'm doing all this!

Braises are a wonderful thing, aren't they?

Pork carnitas in their 6th hour. Smells wonderful here. Made a stack of corn tortillas this morning. Frijoles de casa simmering on the back burner. Even made a batch of queso oaxaca last weekend. Salsa verde is made. Pickled jicama made. Lime wedges and scallions still to be cut, but otherwise, I've got a fantastic, kick-ass taqueria dinner going to town for ourselves and 4 others this evening.

And tequila. Lot's of tequila.

Oh. I'm sorry. Is that "bigoted?"

Alex said...

Chef - can you send me some of those carnitas?

Alex said...

Inga is no doubt flailing about.

Inga said...

Mojo, what the fuck do I care what you are cooking? Is that supposed to impress me or something, go to hell.

Inga said...

No I'm actually knitting as we speak, not safe to flail with knitting needles in your hands, deadly weapons.

Alex said...

my my what a potty mouth Inga has.

Alex said...

Inga we will have to wash that potty mouth out with soap if you don't stop you naughty girl!

Inga said...

Yes, Mojo drove me to it.

Inga said...

Whatever, I'm going to go cook some Hungarian Chicken Paprikash.

I wouldn't eat anything Mojo cooked Alex, monkey hands cooking, you don't know where those little nasty hands have been.

Synova said...

The article (I clicked through) is lengthy, but good, I think.

Big Mike said...

Big Mike, I have several very good friends who are public school teachers here in Wisconsin, they don't fit your profile at all, yet were subjected to the same demonization.

My kids were blessed with a tiny handful of good teachers, and that made a lot of difference in their lives. The problem is that the bad ones hide behind the good, and I perceive you as enabling that to some extent.

From where I sit the problem is the union, which has taken as its mission the protection of bad teachers and not the education of children. If your daughter ever entertained suicidal thoughts because of a bad teacher, you'd have more appreciation for the rest of us.

Chef Mojo said...

Inga is a typical liberal. Blaming everyone else for her shortcomings...

And no, Inga. You're not supposed to be impressed. You're supposed to be salivating. No sane human wouldn't be. C'mon. Admit it. That really tugged at your tummy, didn't it? Don't be ashamed. I have that effect on people with my cooking. Yes, we chefs are egomaniacs. Goes with the job.

Alex, I can only send it to you in spirit. But, consider it done!

Merry Christmas!
¡Feliz Navidad!

Big Mike said...

@Synova, if you're thinking about getting a handgun or long gun of your own, consider taking an NRA introductory class, especially if the version of your class includes range time with a mix of revolver and semi-automatic as well as a mix of calibers. Doing that with my wife was one of the smartest things I've done.

PS - Over a year ago you were working on a time-travel short story. Did you ever write it?

Synova said...

Freder links the Luby TX massacre and doesn't mention that the laws were changed after that event because the one lady had *obeyed the law* and left her gun in her car.

She's featured in the Pen and Teller Bullsh*t episode on gun control.

But I suppose Freder may have been AGREEING that gun free zones end with far more deaths and that allowing people to carry everywhere when they're legal to carry concealed is a good thing.

Chef Mojo said...

And Inga?

I make the best Paprikash you ever had, hands down. And spätzle like little angel's clouds. Light and fluffy, they soak up the gravy like a Budapest pimp gathers up farmgirls from the hinterlands...

Good stuff.

Synova said...

Big Mike... I'm getting my son a "intro to hand guns and marksmanship" classes #1 and #2 at a local range for his Christmas present. I should take the same classes even though I've had safety courses in the past (far far in the past) and some familiarity via the military and have shot before. I'm seriously considering a Walther PPQ, if it turns out the "small" version grip is small enough.

"PS - Over a year ago you were working on a time-travel short story. Did you ever write it?"

I really haven't done any fiction writing since I went back to school. Unfortunately. And I'm currently avoiding a couple of short articles that I have to write by the end of December for an honest-to-dog internship that I have for spring semester. Blah.

Inga said...

Mojo, your Paprikash could NEVER match up to mine, I'm an authentic Hungarian German.

Synova said...

"Michelle, my point should be obvious, or have you forgotten the demonization of public school teachers in Wisconsin during the protests? I read quite a bit of it here on this blog. "Hogs at the public trough" was a popular slur on teachers during and since that time. It was and still is shameful."

I think that there is an important element here that actually does apply to both situations.

That element is choice.

Some teachers chose to skip school, get fake medical notes, and have a public tantrum because they weren't immune from the economic realities of life.

Some teachers chose to take the training from Larry Correia to safely carry concealed in the classroom in Utah.

The element of either situation is the same... individuals made choices to become better prepared to protect and serve their students, or to call in sick because the public trough has a bottom.

Chef Mojo said...

But Inga? I thought you were an American...

Regardless, I don't doubt that your paprikash is wonderful. Love and passion of food will always show in the results. That, and the quality of ingredients.

Still. Mine rocks people's worlds.

Frohe Weinachten!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

To get back on topic. I don't know that it would be a good idea to "ask" teachers to be armed. Many might think that they could handle it but have not been tested in stressful situations. Then....there is also the liability issue if the teachers were officially armed.

I think the Erika's school situation is ideal. Professionally trained personnel, whether ex military, ex police, current police or a security company would be best. And if those teachers who want to protect themselves do so with a CCW permit, they should be allowed to as long as the administration is informed that they are carrying.

It is ridiculous to think that if we remove guns from the hands of legal owners, trained and responsible people that somehow all the crazies and criminals will melt away and everything will be sunshine and roses. That is liberal la la land thinking.

And....I'm making country style pork ribs, par boiled rubbed in Djon mustard, brown sugar. Will bake off in the oven to a crispy brown and use some J LeRoy's BBQ Sauce at the last few minutes. Coleslaw. Corn bread pudding, with chilies and cheese.

Chef Mojo said...

Now, I must leave you all to your own culinary devices. Time for holiday entertainment!

Inga said...

I'm a proud American first and foremost, my roots are Hungarian German, has been that way since I was three years old.

Chef Mojo said...

And....I'm making country style pork ribs, par boiled rubbed in Djon mustard, brown sugar. Will bake off in the oven to a crispy brown and use some J LeRoy's BBQ Sauce at the last few minutes. Coleslaw. Corn bread pudding, with chilies and cheese.

Oh, girl! You're talking my language!

Chef Mojo said...

(...)my roots are Hungarian German.

Ha! Donauschwaben! You should know from paprikash. My apologies for referring to you as Austrian.

Inga said...

Yes Donauschwaben.

Ok I forgive you.

Big Mike said...

@synova, check out this review.

Big Mike said...

Inga and Mojo have made up!?!

Time to rethink my atheism.

Big Mike said...

@synova, consider going with your son. I went with my wife and was surprised at how much I had forgotten about proper handling of a handgun.

Cedarford said...

Alex said...
C4 - are you telling me the average female teacher can't be a Todd Beamer? LOL.

==================
Precisely.
The modern media myth of the violence loving, kickass female is pretty much Hollywood serving up violence pornography to adolescent males and clueless bitches who now consider the highest female fantasy is "being empowered".

The ludicrous spectacle of a 105 Keira Knightly type barbarian princess kicking the asses of eight 250 lb. gay male muscle models playing warriors surrounding her is totally lost on the submissive male teens raised in a female k-12 matriarchy and the clueless bitches.

Chef Mojo said...

@Big Mike:

Time to rethink my atheism.

Why? I'm not.

;-)

Darcy said...

Ohhh. Chicken Paprikash.

My favorite. I haven't had it in so long. I used to buy it from a Hungarian restaurant near where I used to live.

kimsch said...

Making a ham tonight. Will use some in a strata for Christmas Morning and some for Hoppin' John New Year's morning. And sandwiches throughout the week.

Synova said...

Big Mike, it's mostly the expense of more than one class at a time or I'd definitely go with him. The two classes (intro handguns 1 and 2) end up around $150 together. My son is 21 and interested, though we don't own any guns. We went shooting for his birthday and had fun but I want him to have a real class instead of, well, movies and the internet and what mom doesn't remember from the 6th grade rifle safety course I took.

Thanks for the link. She has a lot of very good videos. I had watched her "choosing your first gun for women" video and that took me to her PPQ review. Every other review I've watched is all praise for it as well. The only thing she said is that her hands are still too small for the grip, even though the grip is adjustable. I'd want to make sure that wasn't an issue if I'm paying that much money. (And then I'd be sure to take the class, too.)

Synova said...

"The modern media myth of the violence loving, kickass female is pretty much Hollywood serving up violence pornography..."

That's normal, isn't it? The whole point of Hollywood is to entertain and provide fantasies so you can pretend that you are what you aren't.

OTOH, I've served in the military and taken martial arts classes (neither of these make me remotely kick*ss) and the fact of it is... girls like those things too, even if not in as great a number as guys do. Girls also like FPS video games, even if not in as great a number as guys do. Girls go hunting. Girls compete in gun sports (and are pretty darn good at it, too.)

Some girls like racing cars. Some girls like flying jets and motorcycles and going fast. Some girls like a lot of normally "guy" type of things. Just not in as great numbers as guys do.

Big Mike said...

Girls compete in gun sports

Like Kim Rhode, for instance.

Darcy said...

@Bob

Thank you.

jr565 said...

The survivor of the Lubys massacre who had both her parents killed said she had a gun on her but had left it inthe car. She said she couldn't have guaranteed that she would have succeeded in taking him out, but that it certainly might have leveled the odds.

But, the shooter didn't use an assault rifle. Rather he used two pistols.

On October 16, 1991, 35-year-old George "Jo Jo" Pierre Hennard, an unemployed merchant seaman[disambiguation needed] who was described by others as angry and withdrawn, with a dislike of women, drove his blue 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas Expressway in Killeen. Yelling "This is what Bell County did to me!", Hennard then opened fire on its patrons and staff with a Glock 17 pistol and, later, a Ruger P89. He stalked, shot, and killed 23 people while wounding another 20 before committing suicide. At least 80 people were in the restaurant at the time.


the problem with the clips only having ten bullets thing is that, gunman can often carry many smaller pistols like this shooter did, and after firing shorter number of rounds, switch to another gun then reload after firing all their shots. The time it takes between switching between pistols and reloading is not that great.
So the tradeoffs would be, rather than bringing one gun with many guns, bring many guns with fewer rounds.

Cedarford said...

Synova -

"OTOH, I've served in the military and taken martial arts classes (neither of these make me remotely kick*ss) and the fact of it is... girls like those things too, even if not in as great a number as guys do."

Oh, they exist, as a female pilot of a shot up A-10 Warthog was strong testimony too.
But if you effective have a system that discriminates against men and created 100% female teaching and staff and assistant forces at elementary school - you greatly restrict the number, if any, of suitable candidates that would abandon a class of kids in lockdown, risk leaving her own kids motherless by sallying forth to play Keira Knightly playing a kickass warrior princess.

Synova said...

Cedarford, the all female nature of elementary and particularly middle school is a profound problem for other reasons that that. If it were any other group skewed the opposite way either gender or race-wise the feminists would be howling that it's actual child abuse.

And they'd be right.

Synova said...

Imagine a school that was 50% black and had zero black teachers. Or 50% female and no female teachers. Or 50% Hispanic and 100% Anglo teachers.

Used to be that at least the principal was a man... now not even that.

High Schools are usually better but I wouldn't want a son of mine going through our local middle school.

Hunter said...

Synova, there are good smaller options as well which you may find better suited to your grip, with the side benefit of being easier to conceal if that is your intended purpose.

Mostly these are single-stack 9mm models like the Kahr PM9, S&W Shield and Ruger LC9.

Though I'm a dude, I have small girly hands and usually find double-stack grips to feel a little unwieldy. I much prefer something like my Bersa 380.

Kirk Parker said...

Freder,

Is that you being shockingly ill-informed, or being beyond contempt?

Anybody who knows anything at all about this subject, knows that Texas is not at all like the stereotypes say, that it wasn't one of the early adopters of shall-issue concealed carry (unlike my most advanced state of WA) or ANY concealed carry, and the the Luby's massacre was the main event that triggered the movement for CC in Texas.

Clyde said...

The linked essay is lengthy but should be required reading for anyone who wants to comment about gun control issues. Well, if they don't want to sound like a damn fool, anyway.

jr565 said...

Many states already have CCW laws on the books and yet in those states, people are not shooting each other over disputes about parking spaces.
Vermont is one such state, and that doesn't seem to be a hotbead of murder.

Kirk Parker said...

jr,

Vermont is even better than that: they simply have no laws prohibiting carry, concealed or open; if it's legal for you to own and handle a firearm in the first place, it's legal for you to carry it.

1charlie2 said...

I would not compensate a teacher who chose to be armed any extra pay. I certainly don't want them doing it for the money. Besides, given the life they save might well be their own, why would I pay them for it ?

I would, however, expense them their annual gun-club membership; CCW fees including renewals, 100 rounds/month ammunition (bring in the empty brass and your targets); and a $500 one-time retainer for a lawyer specializing in firearms defense laws in that area.

Seems fair to me.

And no, I don't expect all the teachers to go for it. But a slight sprinkling of armed defense could go a long way toward reducing the body count.

1charlie2 said...

@Synova

Just bought my wife a Kahr Arms CW40 for Christmas. She "tried it on" for size and and loved it -- she has smallish hands and its grip fits her well.

The recoil on a .40 is pretty stiff, though, so definitely shoot one on a range to make sure it's not excessive for you.

(And no, that advice is not gender-specific. Plenty of men who don't appreciate recoil as well)