February 3, 2013

Chris Kyle — "The Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History" — shot point-blank at a firing range.

The suspect is an ex-Marine — Eddie Routh — who is said to have post-traumatic stress syndrome.
Since retiring as a Navy SEAL, Kyle had been actively helping other military veterans recover from PTSD....

While serving in Iraq, insurgents placed a bounty on Kyle's head because of his lethal accuracy as a sniper. He recounted his experiences in "American Sniper," published last year.
(There's a video interview with Kyle at that last link.)

57 comments:

CEO-MMP said...

Funny, when I first saw your post I was going to comment along the lines of "gee, I'd have mentioned he was working with a group trying to help PTSD guys", then I come back 5 minutes later and there it is.

With no mention of the post being edited.

vet66 said...

Chris Kyle; son of a Sunday School Teacher and a Deacon died the death of a hero at the hands of a troubled warrior he was trying to help. A brutal irony that defies rational explanation. Shakespeare's Henry V touched on it briefly in his St. Crispin's Day speech. Rest In Peace Chris, you will be missed and never forgotten.

The Farmer said...

CEO-MMP said...
Funny, when I first saw your post I was going to comment along the lines of "gee, I'd have mentioned he was working with a group trying to help PTSD guys", then I come back 5 minutes later and there it is.

With no mention of the post being edited.


What else is she hiding? I demand a full investigation!

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Fuck.

Ann Althouse said...

"With no mention of the post being edited."

I didn't mean to hit the publish button, but I must have by accident. Only the title was on the post, so I had to work quickly to finish the post, which I did in a couple steps, within a couple minutes. I don't clutter little problems like that with notations about editing.

I also correct typos after publishing without bothering people about that.

Sorry if that seemed important enough to you that you would make a comment about it. Really, what's the point? You want blog posts with statements about stuff like this or are you just disappointed that a criticism you were about to make became irrelevant?

roesch/voltaire said...

How sad for a hero to go down like this. I am sure the NRA will have something to say about if everyone at a shooting range were armed this could have been prevented. Or maybe this will be just another footnote, among many footnotes, marking the terrible impact our ten year long war has had on our society.

Patrick said...

Kyle was in the middle of a lawsuit brought against him by Jesse Ventura. Kyle wrote in his book that Ventura said "you deserve to lose a few" at the funeral of a Seal. Kyle then punched Ventura. Ventura denies this, and has sued.

Too bad, Kyle sounds like a good guy to have on your team.

Paul said...



How ironic. Went through so much war and then gets killed here in Texas.

But something is not right. 25 year old man just ups and shoots him and another man Kyle was trying to help get over PTSD?

Alot more was going on. Assassination by some liberal (well they keep saying Tea Party people do bad deeds so why not a liberal since so many of them say so much violent rhetoric?)

Sheriff arrested the guy so we will find out soon enough.

Mary said...

Am I wrong to think this a bit of poetic justice? Live by the gun, die by the gun.

Nothing like being dished up a little bit of what you've served to others again nd again and again... (plus 157)

Of course, our guy was a hero. Those others were just enemy killers, willing to die for their country too.

Violence begets violence... There really is a better way, but we're still not 'down' enough to understand that. God help our American, and may Mr. Kyle find himself standing alongside some of those whose lives he took, wherever it is he might be now.

Poetic justice indeed.

David said...

"Poetic" justice, Mary? Drop the "poetic" shield. You think he deserved it, right? Have the guts to come out and say it.

Mary said...

Not deserved it so much...
Just, violence begets violence.

We cheer the warriors over the peacemakers, the violent over the thinking, the killing of others... until it gets done unto us.

This American power mindset is killing us, and we act surprised when our own meet violent ends?

Spare me.

Mary said...

In a interview with Time magazine last year, Kyle admitted that he didn't regard his targets as people when he took aim.

"The first time, you're not even sure you can do it," he said.

"But I'm not over there looking at these people as people. I'm not wondering if he has a family. I'm just trying to keep my guys safe. Every time I kill someone, he can't plant an IED. You don't think twice about it."

Leland said...

Not deserved it so much...
Just, violence begets violence.


So you do think he deserves it. You even try to dehumanize him by pointing out he dehumanized his enemy, which of course dehumanized him and others.

We cheer the warriors that protect us. We cheer peacemakers when they do the same. If you think the peacemakers of "Oil for food" deserved cheer, then your ignorant of what was really going on. Sometime, warriors are needed.

But as violence begets violence, just remember you reap what you sow too. As you denounce those who would protect you, just hope you never need their protection. If you think violence is a cycle that you can somehow stop; you're living a fantasy.

SJ said...

@Mary,

a quote from a character in Tolkien comes to mind.

"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend" --Faramir, discussing his love of his homeland.

Some violence is protective, some violence is predatory.

Which kind did Chris Kyle pursue, and why was it celebrated?

Which kind was exercised against him?

Mitchell the Bat said...

I wonder if Kyle saw it coming.

Patrick said...

We cheer the warriors over the peacemakers, the violent over the thinking, the killing of others.

No. We respect and admire those who are willing to lay down their lives when the peacemakers have failed. And when peacemakers fail, it is usually because someone is willing to use violence. That is when the warriors are necessary.



Elliott A said...

Most of the time, the special ops people are charged with rescuing people who are being held against there will, or taking out particularly bad people. In either case, the people they shoot are far from innocent. Since they are not allowed to pre-emptively shoot children, the bad guys use children to shoot the first people in the door, relying on the temporary reluctance of the individual to shoot a ten year old. My daughter's boyfriend, a marine sniper has watched his buddies die because he couldn't shoot the kids who killed them. Even then, killing children is not an easy thing to do. Still, the mission is almost always rescue of innocents or allies who will most likely be murdered. They are not perched in trees or behind rocks shooting random soldiers.

That being said, it is worrisome that anyone should question why some people snap after their service. I think they need more post service care and analysis. Imagine having to do nothing but watch when your buddies are about to die, then have to shoot 10 year olds. Most people could handle shooting bad guys. In this war, the bad guys really make it difficult.

Cedarford said...

Paul -
But something is not right. 25 year old man just ups and shoots him and another man Kyle was trying to help get over PTSD?


It does make one think about the wisdom Kyle, Nancy Lanza, and Jared Loughners parents saw in "Firing Range" therapy for their mentally diseased kin.

Another case, sad for Chris Kyle, where guns and crazy people should have never been supported as a "good idea", even allowed legally.

Felons lose the right to vote, crazy people, whether temporarily or permanently, should lose the right to firearms ownership, use, access, purchase of ammo.
The only debate I think we should have is what sort of mental disease or "condition" would disqualify, and what mental conditions would not add to risk to the person or persons around them.
Then what has to be changed in HIPAA and documentation (drivers license has spot to say firearms barred?) to let others know the crazy person has no business being anywhere near guns, explosives, etc.


edutcher said...

A tad more on the program with which he was involved.

roesch/voltaire said...

How sad for a hero to go down like this. I am sure the NRA will have something to say about if everyone at a shooting range were armed this could have been prevented. Or maybe this will be just another footnote, among many footnotes, marking the terrible impact our ten year long war has had on our society.

Nice to know being a professor (or whatever it is Roesch claims to be) makes you an expert asshole, rather than the bush league variety the rest of the trolls are.

DinobotPrime said...

Mary
Spare me of your self righteousness, the man is a better person than you not because he was an accomplished sniper, but because he saw what the world really is, a dangerous place.

Snipers like him are a rare breed because what they have to do. To kill from a distance in order to prevent the death of his comrades, his battles are always personal.

He died not in the field of battle, he died helping a fellow veteran who needed help to overcome his battle scars. Yes, he was murdered by a fellow veteran with a gun, but that's not the point there, the point was he unselfishly took the time to help others that led him to his untimely death.

Do you know what is the greatest threat in the West today, it's not the Islamic fundamentalists or the crazy North Koreans, but the spoiled men and women who think that the best way to ensure peace is to ignore the reality that there are people and nations out there who are not interested in peace, but who are interested on what we have or hate us for what we are. You are the kind of person who will gladly exchange liberty for peace .

DinobotPrime said...

Mary
Spare me of your self righteousness, the man is a better person than you not because he was an accomplished sniper, but because he saw what the world really is, a dangerous place.

Snipers like him are a rare breed because what they have to do. To kill from a distance in order to prevent the death of his comrades, his battles are always personal.

He died not in the field of battle, he died helping a fellow veteran who needed help to overcome his battle scars. Yes, he was murdered by a fellow veteran with a gun, but that's not the point there, the point was he unselfishly took the time to help others that led him to his untimely death.

Do you know what is the greatest threat in the West today, it's not the Islamic fundamentalists or the crazy North Koreans, but the spoiled men and women who think that the best way to ensure peace is to ignore the reality that there are people and nations out there who are not interested in peace, but who are interested on what we have or hate us for what we are. You are the kind of person who will gladly exchange liberty for peace .

Cedarford said...

Elliot A -
My daughter's boyfriend, a marine sniper has watched his buddies die because he couldn't shoot the kids who killed them. Even then, killing children is not an easy thing to do.

It could be your marine sniper failed to do his duty and helped kill his buddies, because the ROE permit American troops to fire on and kill enemy civilians with weapons, especially weapons observed to be putting lethal fire on Americans.

I would also say that in most wars, soldiers kill enemy civilians from necessity of self defense, or to demoralize and terrify the enemy and don't lose any sleep over it.
Be it Americans on Shermans March or killing tens of thousands of "wee Jap enemy children and little doggies" on incendary raids, Brits killing tens of thousands of Boers in concentration camps. Germans shelling and machine-gunning refugee columns slowing their advance, or Americans and Soviets doing the same heading in.

Even the tried and tawdry tear-jerker of the cop who shoots a 14-year old "troubled black youth" armed with a pistol he shoots or tries to shoot cops with. They know the PC drill. They are supposed to moan and claim that not a day in the rest of their life will not be haunted by the "Tragedy of that poor child" when the truth is the cop really thinks he was lucky he managed to plug the little niggah thug 1st and went to bed that night with a big smile on his face and will never actually lose a wink of sleep over it..

Elliott A said...

Cedarford- They are prohibited from shooting children, even armed until they actually engage in hostile action

Elliott A said...

Contrary to TV, these people follow their orders to the letter. They are true heroes.

Cedarford said...

RV - How sad for a hero to go down like this. I am sure the NRA will have something to say about if everyone at a shooting range were armed this could have been prevented.

Hate to agree with RV, but the death of an armed Navy SEAL at a shooting range by a mentally diseased psycho does make a bit of dark comedy of the NRA's claim that the solution to crazies with guns is more Freedom-Loving Armed Heroes that can shoot well with big, huge weapons with equally huge magazines.

The problem is the nexus of mentally diseased people raised seeing tens of thousands of murders and righteous shootings on TV or in vid games - gaining access to guns.

McTriumph said...

This is so sad, but I'll wait for more info. I always reserve judgement in situations where PTSD is being thrown around.

AllenS said...

One of the requirements for receiving a PTSD award from the VA (and it's monetary reward, not to mention Social Security Disability and it's bonus money) should be that you cannot use or possess a firearm. Most Veterans I know with a PTSD awards do nothing every day but comsume drugs and drink alcohol. It's party time, however, the drugs and alcohol eventually make them depressed. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with being in combat. I have a PTSD friend who received his award because he suffers from "survivor guilt". Another one who was an air traffic controller had to be institutionalized for a period of time because of suicidal thoughts. Once he was granted the PTSD claim, he feels much better. Just bought a Cadillac.

Cedarford said...

Elliott A said...
Contrary to TV, these people follow their orders to the letter. They are true heroes.

No, they are well indoctrinated soldiers willing to see their comrades die at the hands of enemy civilians when they could have stopped it - rather than disobey orders.
Not "Heroes" for doing so.

We once had a hardcore decorated as shit TigerROK marine TAD'd to us in Turkey. One of his stories (he was a forward air observor for the US and Korean forces) was from his assignment at the DMZ. He was shown a monument the NORKS built in sight. It was explained to him that it was there to commemorate not just an infiltrator killed on the spot in the 60s, but the 4 person 'round the clock honor guard the NORKS put there that perished a few days later.
"Heroes" that folowed their orders to the letter.
A Siberian Express came in one night after the honor guard, standing over a piece of empty, bloodsoaked ground was assigned. Sub-zero, driving snow, big wind chill. In the morning, there were 4 snow covered corpses, 3 still standing at full attention. He saw the movie the S Korean military made of the corpses being unstuck by NORKS chipping them out with pickaxes and loading the "Heroes" like cordwood on a pickup truck.

He hoped the NORKS at least shot the officer that issued the brainless order.

jr565 said...

Go f yourself Mary.

jr565 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jr565 said...

Mary wrote:
"We cheer the warriors over the peacemakers, the violent over the thinking, the killing of others... until it gets done unto us.

This American power mindset is killing us, and we act surprised when our own meet violent ends?"


Mary doesn't understand that sometimes you can only have peacemakesrs if warriors secure the peace first.
Lets talk about the peace makers - the Ghandi's, the MLK's. Isn't it ironic that they were all laid lowby a bullet?
Poetic justice, Mary?
ANd I note that you lay out the natural state of the world as "An American condition" as if warmongering is somehow an American trait and not a universal state of affairs.

She is definitely a liberal.

jr565 said...

Cedarford wrote:
Hate to agree with RV, but the death of an armed Navy SEAL at a shooting range by a mentally diseased psycho does make a bit of dark comedy of the NRA's claim that the solution to crazies with guns is more Freedom-Loving Armed Heroes that can shoot well with big, huge weapons with equally huge magazines.

Why? Just because you have a gun doesn't mean that you will not get shot by someone else with a gun? WHen the cops pulled this guy over did THEY have guns?
Case closed.

jr565 said...

Dinobot prime wrote:
You are the kind of person who will gladly exchange liberty for peace .

Even worse than that, she is the kind of person who has the benefit of the security that people like Kyle bring and who then spits on her protectors because she apparently doesn't know any better and is a worthless idiot.

Jason said...

Speaking of mental disorders, I'm thinking C-fudd is a narcissistic sociopath with an inflated sense of his own intelligence. Can you imagine meeting him and Ritmo in the same bar?

Cedarford said...

jr565 - Why? Just because you have a gun doesn't mean that you will not get shot by someone else with a gun? WHen the cops pulled this guy over did THEY have guns?
Case closed.


=============
No, because it shows:

1. The better solution is to keep guns out of the hands of mentally disturbed people. Not say that since we have to let crazy people have guns as their "sacred right" somehow - that the solution is more Armed Heroes everywhere to stop them.

2. And is shows that it is a singularly stupid idea to try and give crazy, dangerous people like Loughner, Adam Lanza, and whoever this Marine psycho-boy was - "fireams use and training" as therapy.

machine said...

So.....more guns weren't the answer?


Hmmmmmm.....

Revenant said...

That's a damned shame.

McTriumph said...

What states don't have laws that purpose is to keep guns out of crazys' hands? I bet most if not all do, but there's just more cash in traffic and tax enforcement.

Mary said...

We cheer the warriors that protect us.

As you denounce those who would protect you, just hope you never need their protection.
---------

The War in Iraq was not at all about protecting "me" here at home. Sorry.

We will be paying off the price for that ill-begotten military action for years to come.

Mary said...

' If you think violence is a cycle that you can somehow stop; you're living a fantasy.'

you might say i'm a dreamer
but i'm not the only one

killing foreigners abroad in the name of enhanced security...

is not the way it's done.

Mary said...

'In this war, the bad guys really make it difficult.'

and sometimes, if you've followed coverage of the civilian crimes, the bad guys is us...

we had not business being there, in the first place, fighting those who would protect their own.

Mary said...

wasn't an iraqi, but an american, who killed the sniper here at home afterall...

Mary said...

ANd I note that you lay out the natural state of the world as "An American condition" as if warmongering is somehow an American trait and not a universal state of affairs.

She is definitely a liberal.'

nope -- fiscal conservative, realist. young enough to be paying the price of that costly invasion mistake as the economy tanks and needed military services are cut...

you really can't have it all -- invade randomly, and still be an economically efficient nation.

Mary said...

jr565 said...
Go f yourself Mary.
-----------

oh, go shoot at something, tough guy...

Mary said...

Even worse than that, she is the kind of person who has the benefit of the security that people like Kyle bring ...
----------


lolol. the iraqi war did nothing to make me 'safer' here at home.

congrats on your killer career, kyle. rip. poetic justice, friend.

Mary said...

hopefully something can be learned by kyle's deadly mistake...

it's not good therapy to take mentally ill folks out 'shooting'.

at least this one didn't go on to slay a classroom full of children, eh? thank heavens for small favors.

SJ said...

Gotta disagree with most commenters about one thing.

PTSD isn't mental illness--at least, it's not untreatable. It's a different set of problems than schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. It may be more like depression than either of those.

PTSD used to be known as "battle fatigue", and armies have been seeing it for a long time.

This particular case may have been unwise to be given a gun. Or there may have been something else between these men that led to the shooting.

@roesch,

gun ranges are usually very safe places. Does not mean that they are the safest place on earth.

For what it is worth, this is the first I've heard, in my lifetime, of someone committing homicide at a gun range. I've heard of a handful of suicides at firing ranges, but never an event like this.

Which makes me wonder what happened, whether there was a range officer present, and what relationship Kyle and Routh had outside of the range.

Synova said...

Mary and Cedarford should get together and have vile little babies.

Just saying.

Mary said...

Security Social Disability defines PTSD as a mental illness.

Many of the police officers responding to the Newtown shooting claim they can't go back to work again based on what they saw.

So much for work hardening. The surviving children are back in a new school, overcoming their difficult memories and getting on with their lives.

You really can't have it both ways -- mentally ill to the point of being disabled from working, but capable of responsibly handling guns and going for 'shooting therapy'.

Perhaps it's good that the snipers' proposed lifework was prematurely ended, and by a fellow soldier at that. This culture of violence too often spills over and claims innocents.

In the post war years, we'll probably see more and more of these killings/massacres here at home, not just to those brown folk... 'over there'.

Mary said...

synova,

watch your back at the shooting range, hun.

Mary said...

I've heard of a handful of suicides at firing ranges, but never an event like this.
-------
way more than a handful, in florida alone...

Howard said...

Love the nuance.

I read half of Kyles Sniper book before I couldn't take the glorification of killing any longer. He admitted he was not the best shot and most of his kills were under 500-meters. His book implied he had a cartoon character bad-guy attitude about the enemy. He also seemed to brag at bit too much for my taste, but he could also back it up, so he earned the right to say whatever he wanted. Also, I appreciated his candor about his attitudes.

The bottom line is that he was damn good at his job, maybe the best, and he saved untold numbers of Marines in the field by his killing efficiency. He was also an extremely ambitious young man who had enormous success and also wanted to help his fellow warriors heal from the the war.

It's a sad day indeed.
The claim of poetic justice, as screeched by the hysterical Cat Lady, it was just an ironic death. Trying to place a single tragic event into a grand theory of every bad thing our country and our people do is typical of the self-involved and/or pot heads.

The universe is indifferent, people like Kyle are always faithful.

McTriumph said...

Mary
What post war days?

n.n said...

Selective fire.

Jason said...

Kyle and I are both veterans of the fight for Ramadi.

RIP, brother.

joe said...

There are actions that should be unknown(especially to the public) until a person has passed on.

Who are these nurses(female) in that picture you are showing me?

They are nurses(approx 15+) that stabbed babies born from Alemans impregnating women for a so-called master race, which were deemed "imperfect". That table you see in the picture is where they came down the line and were stabbed in the heart.
The knife you are holding was one of the knives used to murder the babies.



What happen to them?

We lined them up, and shot um.


Who is this guy in a beret?

A French Underground, that was a lying son of a bitch. He died also.

Hey, I though you said you were in Europe, why do you have this Japanese flag wrapped in a bamboo cover?
The Japanese had a support division in Germany.

How did you end up here, and where were you born(city)?

I was born on a Oklahoma reservation, and joined the military(eventually the 101st), to defend my nation. After WW2 I opened up a cabinet shop and employed hundreds making those cabinets used for stereos like Philco, Magnavox or RCA.

Oh ya, I remember those, sitting on the floor in front of the big wooden stereo and listening to music. It played that weird speed, 16rpm. Like, the record with the song, Flat Foot Floozie with the floy floy.

Well, during the Watt's Riots the factory was burned down, probably some of the guys that worked there did it(laughing). So that's how I ended up here. No hard feelings, just the way it is.




Mary said...

Mary
What post war days?
------

Good money says, Americans cannot afford to continually engage in endless pre-emptive warfare around the globe.

Wait and see...