March 28, 2013

The child philosopher.

What do you do to get a child like this?



"I don't think [the parents] have a particular method or anything like that. They're both excellent human beings and they treat their kids as if they're intelligent young people, and not children who couldn't possibly understand how the world (or universe) works."

175 comments:

traditionalguy said...

John Stuart Mill is back!

John Lynch said...

Reminds me of the kid in "Annie Hall."

tiger said...

Yikes!

Seriously who would want a 9 year old like that?

That kid is headed for therapy and sooner rather than later.

Thinking 'The Big Thoughts' can and will do that.

John Lynch said...

Sperg.

Rob said...

Sure, the kid is like everybody else. Feed him a couple of drinks and he becomes a philosopher.

prairie wind said...

Cool kid. I loved that he would say, "I could be wrong." Too many adults forget that possibility. I also liked his take on theory, that you can't absolutely prove a truth, that theory is all you have.

William said...

Humanity may yet have a future. Great kids. But let them come down on the wrong side of gay marriage, and half the world will will want to kill them.

Howard said...

tiger +1

absolutely. having a smart, thoughtful kid that is obviously not an obese TV watcher or video gamer would really suck because, you know, that would make the parents feel inferior. Better to have some sugared up mindless drooler who can be quiet in front of a screen all day.

CEO-MMP said...

prairie wind said...
Cool kid. I loved that he would say, "I could be wrong." Too many adults forget that possibility. I also liked his take on theory, that you can't absolutely prove a truth, that theory is all you have.

Most people I know say "I could be wrong" about a dozen times a day. Problem is, most people act like it to. There's precious little definite action anymore.

And a truth is a truth because it can be proven. Things that aren't proven or aren't provable are called theories.

Whether you believe anything to be true is a different subject--but has no bearing on what is or isn't a truth.

MadisonMan said...

Are his parents a same-sex couple or not?

Because that's probably important, according to blog commenters.

Anthony said...

Color me somewhat skeptical.

Lem said...

I know what he is going to be when grows up.

Well, after this series of treads today... lets just say I'm guessing.

CEO-MMP said...

MadisonMan said...
Are his parents a same-sex couple or not?

Because that's probably important, according to blog commenters.


Children do better with a mother and a father. It's not open to debate.

I'm willing to bet (I don't have any evidence of it and don't feel like looking it up) that a same sex couple (assuming stability, just as with a hetero couple) is a close second, and better than a single parent household.

bagoh20 said...

Hey, I was smart once too. Shit happens. Wait till he discovers sex. Then we'll see how smart he is.

Inga said...

It shouldn't matter what sexual orientation his parents or parent is. Whoever they are, they are probably proud of this little guy with a big mnd.

Oso Negro said...

He is presently enjoying the Golden Age of Childhood. Those years from roughly 8 to 12 when they know enough to be interesting and don't have to be taken care of every single moment. Once he hits puberty, all bets are off.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I hope that they can home school him or at least keep him out of the public school where his individual thought processes and philosophical way of examining life will be squashed and he will be punished for toeing the line and chanting the liberal mantra.

Pray for this young person that he can escape.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Punished for NOT toeing the line. I meant to type

Ben Calvin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ben Calvin said...

Sounds like a pretty normal conversation, based on my child's peers I've been around the last few years. Not that any one of them is like that all the time, but the capability is usually there if they've had exposure to that sort of information.

ricpic said...

That kid's an individualist! Our betters better plant a chip in him...and soon!

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The best philosophical comment from my daughter came when she was 9. We had moved from a different state when she was 6. My wife asked her if she remember a particular even that happened shortly before we moved. My daughter replied No, I don't remember much from when I was little. I haven't really been paying attention to my life.

Most people don't.

ricpic said...

I haven't really been paying attention to my life.

And if you do? It still goes by in ten seconds.

bpm4532 said...

Lots of good places to be introduced to those concepts, even at a young age. Amazingly cogent responses. Hopefully this means he'll have a great built-in BS detector as he grows up.

"80 percent of success in life is just showing up." (Woody Allen)

"The other 20% is just paying attention." (Me)



Kchiker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

I often thought that the best advice a older person can tell a younger one about life is "pay attention, or you'll miss it".

Kchiker said...

"I hope that they can home school him or at least keep him out of the public school"

I couldn't disagree with this more. While home schooling can provide accelerated learning in some aspects, it would stunt growth in other important aspects. Public school teaches human interaction and teaches the way that society actually works in a way you don't get at home or even in a private school. Give the kid a social environment (in a public school with many extra-curricular options) and he will be just fine.

ndspinelli said...

Hopefully this kid doesn't go to law school. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste."

bpm4532 said...

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look ... you could miss it." (Ferris Bueller)

MadisonMan said...

While home schooling can provide accelerated learning in some aspects, it would stunt growth in other important aspects. Public school teaches human interaction and teaches the way that society actually works in a way you don't get at home or even in a private school. Give the kid a social environment (in a public school with many extra-curricular options) and he will be just fine.

What is the difference between your scenario and a home-schooled kid with plenty of out-of-the-house activities, such as sports or clubs?

Fernandinande said...

"What do you do to get a child like this?"

Sexual intercourse.

Rusty said...

Kchiker said...
"I hope that they can home school him or at least keep him out of the public school"

I couldn't disagree with this more. While home schooling can provide accelerated learning in some aspects, it would stunt growth in other important aspects.


Not necessarily.
My niece was judged as slow by her first second and third grade teachers because she refused to participate in class. When she did participate it was to act out. She was always doodling with numbers and one day one of the 6 or 7th grade teachers asked her if she would like to learn geometry. She said that she already knew geometry, but would like an algebra textbook to teach herself algebra so that she could study calculus.
The middle school math teacher took her under her wing and got interested the rest of school as well.
If it weren't for that one teacher she would have been the victim of a system that rewards average.
She takes advanced level math classes in college to keep her grade level up in her other subjects.

Kchiker said...

"What is the difference between your scenario and a home-schooled kid with plenty of out-of-the-house activities, such as sports or clubs?"

Limiting the social interaction to sports/clubs doesn't give you a representative picture of the general population. This kid seems to know a lot about the world for his age. The last thing I'd want to see is for him to be shielded from it.

DADvocate said...

Reminds me of my grandson who decided at that age of 5 to be a vegetarian because he didn't think it was right to kill animals for eating. He'll be 23 this year and he's still a vegetarian. The kid in the video is much more pleasant and seemingly more mature, though.

I don't think kids like this are that rare. Maybe more adults just need to talk and listen to kids more.

Inga said...

Kchiker, I agree with you.

What I see in my county which is deep red conservative, no one in my or my daughter's social circles (my daughter and son in law are conservatives) home schools. I see an inordinate amount of emphasis on the kids socialization and group sports, extra cirricular activity, etc. I'm wondering if the home schooling parents tend to be the mostly religious right. I'm aware that some homeschoolers do it for non religious reasons.

Also these moms are SAHMs, so working outside the home isn't an an issue in their decision.

Kchiker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kchiker said...

"She takes advanced level math classes in college to keep her grade level up in her other subjects."

She needed an outlet and found it ... Without having to be isolated from society. The system actually worked. Gifted kids need outlets. I'm sure there are public schools that lack these outlets but sometimes all is it takes is a band or music or debate or acting or math club.

Freeman Hunt said...

Kchiker, shielded from it? Like if rather than being out in the world, you were put in a room all day with thirty people your exact same age?

pduggie said...

It sounds deeper because there is a swelling/meandering music track behind it. Rob Bell does that too.

Kchiker said...

"Kchiker, shielded from it? Like if rather than being out in the world, you were put in a room all day with thirty people your exact same age?"

Being put in a room with thirty people your age teaches you a lot about the world.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Fernandinande said...

Sexual intercourse.

Awfully hetero-normative of you.

Bigot.

bpm4532 said...

I wonder what the kid would say if asked, "Does God exist?"

mark said...

Kchiker said...
I couldn't disagree with this more. While home schooling can provide accelerated learning in some aspects, it would stunt growth in other important aspects. Public school teaches human interaction and teaches the way that society actually works in a way you don't get at home or even in a private school. Give the kid a social environment (in a public school with many extra-curricular options) and he will be just fine.

I couldn't disagree more. Did you know that universities *have to* offer remedial courses like arithmetic and beginning algebra? We have students graduating HS with B's and A's and they can not do basic arithmetic let alone basic algebra.

Public schools are a joke. Social interaction at public schools is a joke. They don't teach any human interaction or thought processes outside of "regurgitate what I say and don't cause problems".

My best university students are the home schooled students. Best socially and academically. They work better in groups (by actually WORKING and not riding on the back the best students) and individually (by having actual study skills).

Rarely I may have a public school student who we don't have to rebuild from scratch. But, it is rare.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Kchiker said...

Being put in a room with thirty people your age teaches you a lot about the world.

It does make the lesson sink in much better than just reading Lord of the Flies

techsan said...

"What do you do to get a child like this?"

A pro-life mom is a good start.

mark said...

Kchiker said...
Being put in a room with thirty people your age teaches you a lot about the world.

Yeah. Like ... "If you can't do the work, complain and hit the kid beside you. Then you get your own adult helper to work through the exam. And then you can brag about getting an A and yet still not read at your grade level."

And you get awesome answers like "I don't know. Some old guy thought of how to add fractions. And he is dead so we can't ask him why we do it this way."

Or better yet you get Planned Parenthood coming into classes and giving tips on sex toys.

AWESOME!

Biff said...

The kid is obviously sharp and has a good vocabulary, but the truth is that I hear kids talking about stuff like this all the time in my nephew's Cub Scout pack and Boy Scout troop. At least when they aren't talking about building forts and riding bikes and playing Xbox.

Sometimes I think that adults just don't bother to listen to kids and simply to let them talk. Get a bunch of kids around a campfire, and they just might impress some people.

(But, of course, Scouts Are Bad.)

MadisonMan said...

Limiting the social interaction to sports/clubs doesn't give you a representative picture of the general population.

I suppose it depends on the sport or club. You are going out of your way to support public schools just as others go out of their way to damn them.

Inga said...

Mark, my grandchildren's public school is 99 to 100% above or at proficient in the state of Wisconsin, in math, science, reading and social studies. A huge majority of these kids get acceptance to the best universities in the nation. I don't know if the students you are referring to come from schools such as this one and others in this county.

Alex said...

Honestly the biggest thing that impresses me is "I could be wrong". Humility is hard to learn.

Alex said...

Inga - do you have to shove those stats in our face? Not everyone gets to go to a ritzy public school like your grandkids.

edutcher said...

Most kids can give you a half hour on the Meaning of Life and it will make more sense than anything you get out of most college classrooms, the media, the feel-good churches, or in any current Presidential Administration.

DADvocate said...

Honestly the biggest thing that impresses me is "I could be wrong". Humility is hard to learn.

I noticed that too. Humility is a foreign concept to my grandson.

Inga said...

It's not a ritzy public school, just one in which parents are engaged and concerned and the kids are held to high expectations. If the people in this county want ritzy schools and some do, they send their kids to University Lake School, which costs big bucks.

Nomennovum said...

That kid probably has few, if any friends, is doomed to getting beaten up at school for being really annoying, and will end up shooting "all the little ants" in his high school with an assault rifle stolen from his divorced mother.

His parents should be concerned, not proud.

Nomennovum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

Inga - for me I'd take the schoolhouse in a Little House in the Prarier over these hi-tech super-connected sterile buildings. Just a dusty chalkboard, a notebook and a pen. That's all one needs.

Alex said...

That kid probably has few, if any friends, is doomed to getting beaten up at school for being really annoying, and will end up shooting "all the little ants" in his high school with an assault rifle stolen from his divorced mother.

His parents should be concerned, not proud.


That's why you don't leave a kid like that to the bullies for years like Adam Lanza was.

techsan said...

His parents should be concerned, not proud.

Nah...he's working on hitting a fastball too. If anything, they need to worry about his destiny to attract women. (Ok...that's presumptive in these heady days of DOMA...the point still applies regardless of your position on the topic.)

D.D. Driver said...

"That kid probably has few, if any friends, is doomed to getting beaten up at school for being really annoying, . . .
His parents should be concerned, not proud."

I have a seven year old who is exactly like this kid. You are correct, my son has a tough time fitting in with other seven-year-olds. We are both concerned and proud.

That said, it has never been our goal as parents to raise the most popular seven-year-old in the second grade.

mark said...

Inga said...
Mark, my grandchildren's public school is 99 to 100% above or at proficient in the state of Wisconsin, in math, science, reading and social studies.

I'm talking about that school too. It is called grade inflation. The "99+%" students can't do math. And more importantly they can't think.

Kids who have had calculus, high SAT or ACT, and good grades. And they can't actually do arithmetic, algebra, or calculus. Worse, they don't know how to tear apart problems to solve them.

Freshmen today get horrified and upset if problems don't have answers they can look up. Or if you don't tell them how to solve it.

No. Public schools are a mess.

D.D. Driver said...

"Public school teaches human interaction and teaches the way that society actually works in a way you don't get at home or even in a private school."

You realize that society has existed for millenia and public school has only existed for century and half, right? Do you REALLY think EVERYONE throughout all human history was a social reject before public schools came along and taught them how to socialize?

Seems far-fetched, but I could be persuaded if you have some evidence.

(By the way, I have two kids in public school.)

tim maguire said...

I think DADvocate is right--this kid isn't that rare, he's just lucky that his parents are willing to talk to him seriously about serious subjects.

Nomennovum said...

I have a seven year old who is exactly like this kid. You are correct, my son has a tough time fitting in with other seven-year-olds. We are both concerned and proud.

I have seen this happen too. It's tough to watch. It's tougher to help a kid adjust. What doesn't help is the attitude that nothing is wrong or it's a phase he's going through. I agree that it's not important to be the most popular (it can even be a problem in itself), but I want my kids to find it easy to make friends and not to exhibit traits that will lead them to getting bullied or ostracized. Trading off a little brains for social proof I think is a good trade. It's a rara avis who is a genius and a social butterfly.

The world doesn't need 9 year old philosophers either.

shirley elizabeth said...

This is what I'm reading: public schools are better than parent-directed homeschooling, which is bad, but what makes a public school better than crap is high parental involvement. Hmmm.

Freeman Hunt said...

Also, I went to public school. Having been there, I would say that an argument resting on the assumption that most public school children are especially well socialized is a nonstarter.

FleetUSA said...

Beyond being in a decent school that emphasizes thinking, he needs to hear his parents talk reasonably about thoughtful issues.

+ minimize the TV.

Inga said...

Freeman, I actually think socialization, while important, is overemphasized in public school children. I see more problems with the kids being overly stretched between scholastic, extra cirricular activity and sports. Sometimes it's too much and kids need to just be kids.

Im thinking there should be be a happy medium, between rejecting public school altogether and home schooling, not that here is anything completely wrong or right with either, both have their negatives and positives.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Im thinking there should be be a happy medium, between rejecting public school altogether and home schooling, not that here is anything completely wrong or right with either, both have their negatives and positives."

I would love it if schools had more of a campus system where parents could enroll their children in all classes, some classes, one class, or no classes. A lot of people divide everything into public school versus private school versus homeschool, but I think it makes more sense to see everyone as part of the same community (because they are) and to make it as simple as possible for people to transition between and take advantage of all three different environments.

The point is for people to be educated, not to make one solution triumph above all others for every child.

D.D. Driver said...

"The world doesn't need 9 year old philosophers either."

You are missing the point. My goal as a father is not raise a successful successful second grader, its to raise a successful adult.

Although, the world doesn't need 9 year old philosophers, the world does need 9 year old philosophers who grow up to be smart, creative, curious adults.

It's unfortunate that children are cruel to each other, but that's not a reason to wish your children were less smart, creative and curious.

Freeman Hunt said...

There's a neat school here that is half school half homeschool. I love that idea.

We were in a homeschool group that had classes once a week. That was wonderful. The kids could go make friends and experience a classroom environment, but it didn't dominate the week.That's on hold until they find a new building to use.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The main problem with public AKA unionized schools is multiple.

First the regimentation that squashes the brilliant individuality and introspection that we see in this shining child. Teachers are overwhelmed with mediocrity and when confronted with someone who dares to raise their head above the foxhole, the shoot the kid right down. Either make fun of him/her in class or encourage the other students to pile on. In no time at all the shining child, will be hiding his light under a bushel or have his light extinguished entirely. Public school is like sending your child to a prison staffed with incompetent at best and sadistic staff and populated with uncontrolled inmates.

Second. Most teachers are, frankly, pretty stupid and uneducated themselves. If it were not for the union, in a real world job, their level of incompetence would have them fired. Instead they are in charge of your children for more hours per day than YOU are.

Third. The indoctrination and deliberate tactic to eliminate all thought other than the approved progressive-liberal-eco political doctrine is more important that learning. More important than cultivating Independence thoughts. The indoctrination trumps the values of the family.

Fourth. Socialization in home schooled is not a problem, since most are active in many other activities. Most home schooled are outgoing, bright and ambitious human beings. Being socialized doesn't mean being thrown into the snake pit either.

Private schooling is also an option.

When you send your children to public school you have to spend much of your time UNDOING the damage.

I would hate to see these brilliant children thrown into the sausage making factory that is our despicable public school system.

Nomennovum said...

Public school education in general sucks. The teachers are not that impressive. They "teach" (indoctrinate) a lot of extraneous shit. They are PC hellholes. They constantly dick around with the curriculum based on the latest educational fads. This happens even at ostensibly the best schools. The problem is that, for most people, there is no alternative. Most parents can't afford private schools (assuming there is one in their area) and many households have both parents working full time. They are unable to devote time to homeschooling.

Inga said...

Freeman, I think we may see a new way of educating our kids become more mainstream, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have more options for everyone.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Geez.....typos....this laptop keyboard sucks. It couldn't possibly be me ;-)

The Godfather said...

So a 9-year old can spout the same philosophy as our elite philosophers do. What this proves is that the elite philosophers of our age have an intellectual level somewhat lower than 9 -- lower because the elite philosophers don't say "I could be wrong".

Nomennovum said...

I sent my kids to one of the best private schools in Manhattan till the oldsest was in middle school. We moved to a suburb noted for its excellent public schools (and high property taxes, naturally). These excellent public schools did not come close to matching the NYC private school, but who out there can afford $35,000 per kid per year (2007 dollars)? How many can take the time to home school?

Commuter said...

A huge majority of these kids get acceptance to the best universities in the nation.
------------------------------------

From an elementary school?

Julie C said...

DD Driver - it will get better, in my experience.
My oldest, now a junior in high school, was very verbal and mature sounding for his age. He could always relate very well to adults and is a natural born schmoozer. He had a tough time of it until about 7th grade. That's when the other kids (especially boys) started to catch up, maturity-wise.

bagoh20 said...

He's not advanced - we simply are retarded. We probably knew this at that age too, but then...?

I know I used to be smarter, because even though I was self-supporting, I had much more fun and free time when I was younger. There was some secret to it that I have forgotten.

Nomennovum said...

Godfather,

Good point. Maybe I was wrong. We do need more 9 year old philosophers and fewer adult ones. The kids can't be more damaging ... can they?

Jack Wayne said...

If most of the people responding to this thread are parents. It's no wonder we are so fucked. I raised my daughter and interacted with her friends in only one mode - that they were adults. Not small adults, not young adults, just adults. And they responded as adults. A little rough around the edges at times due to inexperience but I know 50-year-old infants that are much worse. This kids parents are probably pretty level-headed.

D.D. Driver said...

"My oldest, now a junior in high school, was very verbal and mature sounding for his age. He could always relate very well to adults and is a natural born schmoozer."

Exactly. It is not true that these type of children have a hard time making friends. It's that these children have a hard time making friends **their own age**.

Julie C said...

When my son was in 6th grade, I bought him the book How to Win Friends and Influence People. He told me just recently that he was glad I had done that. He read it and absorbed it. He also told me that in a class discussion one day, about six other kids mentioned that book and all had had parents buy it for them! They all loved it!

bagoh20 said...

And another thing: if someone did all my laundry, and fed me, and paid my bills, I'd have time to develop my mind like his. You think he's just playing ball or climbing a tree, but no, he's working this stuff out the whole time. That nose picking is brain massage.

Inga said...

No of course not, Commuter, they're not all geniuses. Of course they go to the local high school or private high school in the area.

Chip Ahoy said...

Did you ever have an ant farm?

I was waiting for him to expostulate on thinking about ants as a single organism, and their chemical communication analogous to central nervous system.

But no.

He didn't seem to have much interest in where the ants were going, what they were up to, where they're going back to, and no interest at all in what their home is like and what is going on underneath the ground.

Nini said...

Queen Bunny said: "I hope that they can home school him or at least keep him out of the public school"

Kchicker: I couldn't disagree with this more. While home schooling can provide accelerated learning in some aspects, it would stunt growth in other important aspects. Public school teaches human interaction and teaches the way that society actually works in a way you don't get at home or even in a private school. Give the kid a social environment (in a public school with many extra-curricular options) and he will be just fine.



That's an elitist statement coming from you, Dust Queen Bunny.

I agree. Children needs interaction with the wider world.

Parents who are worried that their kids will turn out badly if schooled in the public systems, have kids that are not intelligent enough to think for themselves. The parents are the first teachers; teach your kids to think for themselves.

bagoh20 said...

" teach your kids to think for themselves."

But they could end up as indecent bigots!

Inga said...

" teach your kids to think for themselves."

"But they could end up as indecent bigots!"

3/28/13, 5:23 PM

More likely not.


Nini said...

Dadvocate: My grandson decided at that age of 5 to be a vegetarian because he didn't think it was right to kill animals for eating. He'll be 23 this year and he's still a vegetarian.


Good for him!

Erika said...

Some people on this thread have a very outdated notion of homeschooling.

Never leave your house! Fear the gentiles! Don't talk to anyone but your mom! Yeah, that's exactly it. {eyeroll}

Baron Zemo said...

WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!

THIS POST IS HORRIBLE AND WRONG!!!

IT SHOULD BE ABOUT SAME SEX MARRIAGE!!!!!!!

STOP FOOLING AROUND!!!!!!!

Baron Zemo said...

Home schooling or private schools are the only rational alternative for anyone who would like their children to grow up with traditional American values.

We can only hope that home schooling would be set up on the internet for the lower grades as it is for college.

Nini said...

" teach your kids to think for themselves."

But they could end up as indecent bigots!


Maybe, because he is pro SSM but then again he is only 22 years old. On the other hand he graduated summa cum laude without trying too hard.

Nini said...

Nice that's it Good Friday in Australia (public holiday) I do not have to write my comments with a time stamp of 2.30 AM.


btw, my 22 year-old son is leaving for the U.S. tomorrow. He will be staying for a few days in Santa Barbara to visit his uncle from his father's side who has terminal cancer and then while in LA, he'll visit hollywood and then off to NY, in the city to watch wrestle mania and then to Rochester to visit friends he met through a gaming site.

Anyone wants to return the compliment and pump something into the Australian economy?

Dust Bunny Queen said...


That's an elitist statement coming from you, Dust Queen Bunny.


Oh really? In what way?

I agree. Children needs interaction with the wider world.


So you must think that children who go to private or charter schools or who are home schooled are kept in a closet? There is plenty of interaction with the wider world. Sports, clubs, civic activities, networking with other likeminded parents and students. Probably more than the average public school student gets.

While we were not fortunate enough to have a charter school and I was not elitist enough to be able to afford to home school, my child had plenty of wider world interaction in elementary and high school. Interaction that was NOT provided by the school.

Putting your child in public schooling should be a crime. Child neglect.

Inga said...

Nini, I would love to visit Australia one day, maybe next year. I have distant relatives in Adelaide. When they came to visit us back in the 80's they were enamored with our squirells, they said there weren't any in Australia!

garage mahal said...

Putting your child in public schooling should be a crime. Child neglect.

Maybe in bum fuck Egypt where you live.

Nini said...

Dust Bunny Queen

What I am saying is that the public school system is always getting a bad rap.

Just because some students who were educated in the public schools turn out badly doesn't mean everyone will.

Children raised by parents aware of their children's needs and are naturally intelligent will excel in any educational system.

Lem said...

Look.. the kid is articulate and well spoken... lets not get carried away.

I remember Kliz some years back (on a tread about a lawyer mom that left her kid by the side of the road) discussing the importance of having kitchen table conversations with your kids.

Maybe these kids have them all over the house... or something.

Nini said...

Have to go now.

Inga said...

"Putting your child in public schooling should be a crime. Child neglect."

3/28/13, 5:46 PM

Oh give me a damn break DBQ, that's ridiculous. My grandkid's public school is great and they are happy healthy intelligent sweet children, whose terrible neglectful parents took them to China for spring break.

Alex said...

DBQ is probably one of those fundie types who only want her kids to learn about Jeebus 24/7.

Inga said...

No Alex, she is more of the type who gets her gun when she sees a car coming up the driveway, it makes her crabby waiting so long for the Apocalypse to arrive;)

Nini said...

Last one for Inga. I'm live in another state, in Victoria in the city of Melbourne.

If you get the chance to visit Melbourne, surely I'll invite you for tea and if time permits maybe drive you around to show some interesting places.

You'll love our kangaroos and echidna. They are unique to my country.

See, Inga, although I do not agree with you on some issues I do not take things personally.

Inga said...

Nice to know Nini!

Rusty said...

You want a kid to learn?
teach them to read and then turn em loose in a library. They will have questions. Move heaven and earth to answer them.
Most of the good crap you know you taught yourself.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

DBQ is probably one of those fundie types who only want her kids to learn about Jeebus 24/7.

Hardly. I haven't attended a formal church in over 30 years with the exception of a wedding and funeral or two. When my daughter was in 5th grade we gave her the option of catechism. She went for a few weeks and decided the teachers were hypocrites. Probably correctly too so, she didn't need to go anymore. Her decision.

I want my kids to learn how to read, write, do accomplished math, science...real science...not global warming indoctrination, history, geography, chemistry, geology among other things. None of which they learn in most public schools.

More importantly, I want my kids to learn critical thinking skills and be able to reason things out for themselves and not EVER take anyone's word for granted. Something they will NEVER EVER learn in public school.

Lem said...

Where is kliz these days?
Anybody read her lately?

DADvocate said...

DBQ is probably one of those fundie types who only want her kids to learn about Jeebus 24/7.

Another bigot self identifies.

DADvocate said...

No Alex, she is more of the type who gets her gun when she sees a car coming up the driveway, it makes her crabby waiting so long for the Apocalypse to arrive;)

And, another bigot self identifies. (Of course, we all knew this already.)

DADvocate said...

Good for him!

He's an obnoxious, overbearing jerk and spoiled brat, even at 23, who prides himself in freaking other people out. But, he is very smart.

Inga said...

Dad, DBQ probably knows I'm teasing her. At least she has a sense of humor.

Inga said...

He needs a big juicy bloody steak.

DADvocate said...

Oh give me a damn break DBQ, that's ridiculous. My grandkid's public school is great and they are happy healthy intelligent sweet children, whose terrible neglectful parents took them to China for spring break.

Public schools are very important. Where else are we going to teach kids subservience to the government and left wing values?

Baron Zemo said...

Public schools have long outlived their usefulness to traditional American families. If you want your children to have the traditional American values and beliefs that you grew up with you need to find an alternative. The ceaseless propaganda and indoctrination of the liberal. secular, politically correct and financially corrupt teachers unions will be forced down their throats. If you attempt to teach your children traditional American values you will be reported to the authorities and forced to defend yourself before some politically correct bureaucrat.

We can only hope that internet based primary and secondary educational opportunities will continue to become more readily available and that public education will go the way of the traveling circuit rider and the village apothecary.

Inga said...

And of course, he's not a thing like his Grandpa.

DADvocate said...

At least she has a sense of humor.

You made a joke?! Sorry. As I often hear, don't give up your day job.

Inga said...

My grandkids's parents are conservative, don't worry Dad, all will be OK.

garage mahal said...

My grandkids's parents are conservative, don't worry Dad, all will be OK.

I don't know dude. This is a Wisconsin conservative, yes?

Inga said...

And they are meat eaters.

Inga said...

A Waukesha County red! And I don't mean commie red.

garage mahal said...

As a Wisconsin conservative, you'd have to convince your children all sorts of things that just aren't true.

DADvocate said...

My grandkids's parents are conservative, don't worry Dad, all will be OK.

Funny how that works sometimes. My parents are/were raving liberals. My father was well known at the university where he taught for his liberalism. I have 3 liberal sisters, but they only have one child between them. I have 4 kids. All have libertarian leanings like I do so far. My brother, who has the other two grand kids, is a religious conservative.

Instapundit's father was a raving liberal too. Maybe still is.

garage mahal said...

A Waukesha County red! And I don't mean commie red.

Ah. Yeah. Hm.

DADvocate said...

As a Wisconsin conservative, you'd have to convince your children all sorts of things that just aren't true.

Such as liberals have your best interest at heart.

Inga said...

Garage, they get indoctrinated at school. Public School.

Inga said...

Then there's the local Tea Party leader and their book club, childrens night in which they hand out "patriotic" coloring books to the kids.

Baron Zemo said...

In public school they are no longer taught that George Washington was the father of our country.

But they are taught that it is perfectly all right to be a baby daddy with a bunch of different women.
Or men. Or what ever.

Inga said...

Of course as their Granny, I have teachable moments with them and it's OK with their parents, they aren't social conservatives.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger Inga said...

Mark, my grandchildren's public school is 99 to 100% above or at proficient in the state of Wisconsin, in math, science, reading and social studies....
_________________________________

They go to a 99% white public school I'll wager.

rcommal said...

Be a performance/multimedia artist?

See:

Pieces

body of work

garage mahal said...

In public school they are no longer taught that George Washington was the father of our country.

Not in my district, I read my children's school material quite often. I live in the one of the bluest wards in the state*, and I guarantee you every single kid knows who George Washington is. Or anywhere in Wisconsin.

I'm starting to think you guys live in some weird-ass areas or something?

*True. We're blue [and old], but we fucking vote!

rcommal said...

Guys, Althouse punk'd you.

That, or you just read too much into the question. Sometimes, the question is more literal than that. (See the link; consider the profile.)

rcommal said...

Sorta wish I'd checked on the main Althouse page hours earlier. Even though that's an evil thought. Isn't it?

Inga said...

Gargae, I should've said indoctrinated toward the right, not the left as most of the anti public school types think. They couldn't even listen to Obama's message to the kids, some parents objected.

rcommal said...

Does anyone else remember the MAD strip (I don't remember whether it was originally a mag strip or if it originated in a MAD book; in any case, I read it in a book of MAD strips, and it changed my whole perspective on words) in which was sketched a whole series of pizza shops clustered on a street block competitively claiming they they were--to paraphrase, because I do not remember the details, and long ago lost that MAD book of strips during a carelessly executed move--the best pizza in town, the best pizza in the county, the best in the country, the world, the universe? Anyway, the punchline, kicker and point of the strip was that the very last shop on the block simply claimed: "The Best Pizza on the Block."

As I noted in passing above, that strip changed my perspective on--fundamentally altered my very notion, even, of--words.

Thanks, MAD!--this gratitude expressed way too many years too late, alas. But then, I was so **very** young, at the time

bagoh20 said...

Remember all the kids being taught in school to sing the praises of George Bush, and how he was gonna save the world before anybody even knew who he was. That was awesome.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

They couldn't even listen to Obama's message to the kids, some parents objected.

Of course they should object. A political speech of any persuasion to children has no place whatsoever in the schools. I would object if it were George Bush or George Washington making a political pitch to the children.

Keep politics out of the elementary schools and if you MUST discuss political talking points in high school, when the young adults have the mental capacity to hopefully critically consider the points presented, the presentation should be balanced and evenly presented. However, as we know by multiple examples it isn't since the teachers lean to the left and are actively indoctrinating their students.

ken in sc said...

I once took my best students to a state competition in Industrial Technology. The winner was a home schooled girl. She not only beat all the guys on machine tools and following directions, She could sit and carry on an adult conversation between events. I was impressed.

bagoh20 said...

I remember in third grade how we had to sit at our desks with mimeographed sheets of the times tables 2s through 12s. We had to quietly study them and when we were ready, we would go up to the teachers desk and be tested. If we got them all right, we were done.

I imagine today's kids spending that time and effort learning the words to the song praising George Bush, so they could video it for everyone, and I get all warm inside.

Inga said...

The only song we ever sang about any George was,

Georgie Porgie puddin and pie, kissed the girls and made them cry, when the boys came out to play Georgie Porgie ran away.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Although George Washington would be pretty awesome since the kids could also discuss time travel, immortality and speculate on whether George Washington is really a vampire.

Inga said...

DBQ, but it wasn't a political speech. I remember watching the President as a kid in public school growing up over my elementary and high school years.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Maybe even a homosexual cross dressing vampire. Did you see those pantaloons!?

bagoh20 said...

Georgie Porgie needs suspended and then some sexual harassment training followed by the all the boys getting suspended and forced to learn how not to bully Georgie.

Dammit! Just suspend the whole school and make them feel bad about random stuff, cause it's too hard to keep track of it all, and everyone's born a bullying bigot anyway.

It's time the administrators teach them all how it's done right.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Any speech from the President is a political speech. Elementary children don't have the critical skills to question what an authority figure, much less the sainted Obama has to say. In addition the teachers were all wetting their panties to hear Obama. Don't you think that the attitudes of the adults in the classroom are also a subliminal persuasive force?

Give us the transcript of what he was attempting to say to the children and let us decide.

ken in sc said...

BTW, I should mention, she was not butch in any way. She was a knock out, as most pretty 10th grade girls are.

Inga said...

President Obama's back to school message to schoolchildren

And his message was disallowed even before he gave it. I'm sure you conservatives will find some nefarious subliminal message in there.

Inga said...

And DBQ, the teachers at my grandkids school live in the area, 95% of them are conservative.

SOJO said...

You reproduce with my brother - who would not only think that way but express it more eloquently.

It's DNA, but that doesn't mean you'll get one every time... because you WILL NOT. For example, my brother takes after my uncle (who, of course, was too intensely intelligent and sensitive to have kids at all), not my father - who is a ruthless asshole.

Mark said...

"Maybe that's what this family does: They turn to their kids, and they ask."

It's what I do with my twins. They both tested into New York City's G&T elite schools.

Kids want to think and build, make and discover. The problem ends up being keeping up with them if you're doing it right.

bagoh20 said...

The thing is that kids are being taught that Obama is an awesome President. Now we all know that's a lie, so why are so many kids being mis-educated. It's irresponsible. You wouldn't want your kid being taught that it's safe to drink Drano, or that spending every penny you have, and all you can take from others is a good thing, now would you?

Lydia said...

Inga said...
They couldn't even listen to Obama's message to the kids, some parents objected.

And when George H.W. Bush did the same thing back in 1991, the Democrats were outraged. And the Republicans said it was a cool thing for the president to do.

Yada yada.

Inga said...

But it was shown in public schools, was it not, Lydia?

Yes it was.

Lydia said...

Yeah. The Dems in 1991 must have been asleep at the switch.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Get him some Clint, Black.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Kchiker,

Being put in a room with thirty people your age teaches you a lot about the world.

At some ages, what it principally teaches kids like this one is that other people your age are cruel and stupid, but not quite stupid enough not to be able to think up new ways of tormenting you daily.

wyo sis said...

I don't think I work in an especially different school district than most in Wyoming and surrounding states. I've taught in Oregon and Utah also and I'd say that about the top 1/6th of students across the board are as intelligent and well spoken as this boy.
While he is impressive, in my experience, a child who is brought up by parents with high standards, who value education and who has above average intelligence could speak as well as he did.
I'll bet Freeman's kids could do as well or better, and mine could as well. The answers he gives are thoughtful, but kids are thoughtful when they are encouraged to be and are intellectually supported. Parents are what makes the difference and we have impressive parents here in the conservative hinterlands.

Lawyer Mom said...

No one has criticized the first boy's libertarian assertions, including that you can be anything you want, and that no one can tell you what you must do. Most heartening.

An outstanding read for all new parents is the book How to Raise a Brighter Child, by Joan Beck (I think), originally copyrighted in the '50s and updated in the '90s, as I recall.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Where I live now has shit public schools.

Where I grew up has fantastic public schools.

This idea we talk about millions and millions of people as one concept diminishes the utility one can take away from the dialogue.

Many public schools are great, even in poor areas.

Many public schools are shit, even in not poor areas.

Mostly it is urban versus other.

Urban, meaning Democrat values and Democrat control, mostly, means shit.

Parents who care more about their children than their political identity would never allow their child to experience an inner-city public school if there were other options, or just one other option is my opinion.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

DBQ,

First the regimentation that squashes the brilliant individuality and introspection that we see in this shining child. Teachers are overwhelmed with mediocrity and when confronted with someone who dares to raise their head above the foxhole, the shoot the kid right down. Either make fun of him/her in class or encourage the other students to pile on. In no time at all the shining child, will be hiding his light under a bushel or have his light extinguished entirely. Public school is like sending your child to a prison staffed with incompetent at best and sadistic staff and populated with uncontrolled inmates.

It's not always quite as bad as that. Are there some teachers indifferent to bullying of kids like this one, or indifferent to their thirst for knowledge? Yep. Are there some teachers dumb as rocks? Yep. Does any public school faculty consist entirely of people like that? Possibly, but it must be rare.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

NotquiteunBuckley,

The thing is, the best schools as well as the worst schools tend to be urban. There are a lot more of the latter than the former, but they do both tend to be in cities.

I remember the year our four-county NY math team -- didn't win the state championship (of course not!) but managed to come in second to the NYC "A" team, which always won. That DUSO (that's Dutchess, Ulster, Sullivan, and Orange counties, IOW the working-class NYC bedroom communities as opposed to, say, Westchester) did that well was without precedent, and we were damned proud of it. But you will notice that the urbanites still won.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Any conservative who didn't see Tupac should be considered such as those who haven't seen Tupac.

I didn't see him.

He told me I didn't, and can't see him.

Only my hubris misunderstood.

Tupac.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

And in this Tupac superceded Shakespear.

You can't see him.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Shooting a man to watch him die: art.

Tupac.

He had him a 44.

Rusty said...


Being put in a room with thirty people your age teaches you a lot about the world.


School vouchers for everyone.

BDNYC said...

I knew some kids like this. They usually ended up flaming out. I foresee drugs, mediocrity, laziness, and unfulfilled potential in his future.

Matthew Sablan said...

"The system actually worked."

-- The system did not work; the kid got lucky there was an observant teacher who went above and beyond. The system failed her that it took nearly five years for people to recognize her potential and stunted her growth during that time.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Mark, my grandchildren's public school is 99 to 100% above or at proficient in the state of Wisconsin, in math, science, reading and social studies"

-- Some public schools are great, though they tend to cluster in richer areas. However, the simple fact is, a majority of public schoosl are nothing but failures producing failures.

mrs. e said...

These kids are encouraged to think out loud, to say what they think, even if they might be wrong.

Lucky kid.

ndspinelli said...

DBQ v Inga. DBQ wins by a knockout everytime!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

For those like Inga who refuse to see the indoctrination and pressure on kids to kowtow to the liberal ideology...Read THIS from a young Wisconsin student.

You can keep your head in the sand (or other dark places) or you can face the reality of just how HORRIBLE our schools are and how BADLY they are failing.

Jason said...

Kchiker...

So you were the fucking crab trying to pull me back in the barrell as a kid.

Die in a fire.

And stay the fuck away from my kids.