May 30, 2013

"American voters say 76 - 17 percent, including 63 - 30 percent among Democrats, that a special prosecutor should be appointed..."

"... to investigate charges the Internal Revenue Service targeted conservative groups, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today."
President Barack Obama gets a negative 45 - 49 percent job approval rating, compared to 48 - 45 percent positive in a May 1 survey... conducted before the IRS allegations surfaced....

Americans are divided 49 - 47 percent on whether Obama is honest and trustworthy, down from 58 - 37 percent, the last time Quinnipiac University asked the question September 1, 2011.

Support for an independent prosecutor to probe the IRS issue is 88 - 6 percent among Republicans and 78 - 17 percent among independent voters, 78 - 17 percent among men and 74 - 18 percent among women.

"There is overwhelming bipartisan support for a special prosecutor to investigate the IRS," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "Voters apparently don't like the idea of Attorney General Eric Holder investigating the matter himself, perhaps because they don't exactly think highly of him. Holder gets a negative 23 - 39 percent job approval rating."

79 comments:

Marshal said...

I'd like to hear their explanation for why the IRS head had 150+ meetings in the Obama White House, compared to one visit from the IRS head to the Bush White House.

AprilApple said...

Candy Crowley, the big pro-democrat hackstress, disagrees.

She blames conservatives.

gerry said...

Has the purulent pestilence of these petulant poseurs finally pissed off the populace?

Mark O said...

That would be a great way to keep everything secret.

edutcher said...

Considering how badly Q-pac is usually skewed, this is really bad news for the Choom Gang.

TosaGuy said...

So only 17 percent of the nation is partisan to the point of tyranny.

Dean Douthat said...

If we lived in a representative republic, these percentages would mean something.

Cedarford said...

Marshall - The Daily Caller has done research that is very troubling.
Excerpts:

"Shulman had 157 visits. Former Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, to whom Shulman reported, clocked in at just 48 publicly known visits.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton earned a cool 43 public visits, and current Secretary of State John Kerry logged 49 known White House visits in the same timeframe, when he was still a U.S. senator.

Shulman has more recorded visits to the White House than HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius (48), DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano (34), Education Secretary Arne Duncan (31), former Energy Secretary Steven Chu (22) and former Defense Secretary Robert Gates (17) combined.

The Daily Caller’s analysis includes current, former and presently-nominated members of Obama’s Cabinet. (The Washington Post cautions it is not a full list of Cabinet members, excluding Hillary, and many visitors are not required to sign in the log books, like the NSC Advisor, the VP, perhaps not certain Cabinet members all the time)

Holder only logged 62 visits.

After Shulman, Acting Secretary of Commerce Rebecca Blank (86), Asst. Attorney General Thomas Perez (83) and Penny Pritzker (76) — Obama’s nominee for Commerce Secretary — have the most publicly known White House visits."


This is special prosecutor territory. Only a special prosecutor has the legal power that can force access to reg mail, emails, phone calls. And the meeting minutes in the WH. Who met with him or IRS deputies like Lois Lerner.
To understand who knew what, and when, and what was decided on between Shulman and other parties.

Normally I hate special prosecutors (notably Starr and Fitzgerald) that spend huge money, take forever, and go off the reservation to expand their charter far beyond what they were to investigate...and keep vital findings the public needs to vote intelligently wrapped up until after elections.

But those that dismiss the need for a special prosecutor assure us that the White House will be honest and forthcoming in all matters and Eric Holder will ensure the matter is well-investigated.

Excuse me if I laugh.

Howard said...

It would be good for increasing republican chances of taking over the senate in 2014. They need to have a buffer, otherwise, they will appear desperate and vengeful. However, Ozero won't have the charisma card to play like Bubba. One can hope that this political capital will be used to reduce the size and scope of the Federal Bureaucracy, sadly, that won't likely happen unless someone like Rand Paul can generate some real power.

Lem said...

I'd like to hear their explanation for why the IRS head had 150+ meetings in the Obama White House...

During those days, there was over 50% chance of lightning at the golf course?

If the count of IRS chief visits with Obama are right and this Obama Golf counter is correct, the running of the IRS has been more important to president Obama than his Golf.

I suppose that would be a good thing if there was nothing to allegations that the IRS was among the friends of Obama for re-election.

Scott M said...

But a special prosecutor is not necessarily bad for the Democrats. They can easily obstruct, delay, etc, until after the mid-terms while all the while claiming the SP is on a which hunt, ginning up their own base.

Cedarford said...

I think even the Democrats in House Oversight are doing some serious hating of the IRS folks brought in.

Not just the repulsive Steven Miller in deep forgetfulness about anything, but said throughout his testimony with a smirk and a smug confidence aura that he is somehow safe.
Not just Lois Lerner and her 5th after she stupidly proclaimed as a witness she had done nothing wrong and had nothing to hide.

Add Shulman to the hate list.

Oversight members by now are clenching their teeth about Shulman's flippant answer that one visit was to take his kids to an Easter egg roll event, and he couldn't comment on his other visits.

Lem said...

I wonder if the pass the basket at the IRS...

What?... that would be over the line?

What line?

Lem said...

I just caught myself correcting myself saying... Obama didn't use the IRS to go after his political enemies. He used the IRS to help him get reelected.

Much more noble cause.

The Godfather said...

Instinct tells you that when the IRS is the alleged instrument of abuse, a lot of regular people get concerned.

If you prepare your own tax returns, and are conscious of all the personal information about you and your family that is required or implied by those forms, or if you think about how uncomfortable you might be if someone who knows or claims to all these rules that you don't understand were questioning you about tax "evasion" or tax "fraud" -- then it is not surprising that THIS PARTICULAR (alleged) ABUSE OF POWER might be the one with legs.

cubanbob said...

I cannot say for sure a special prosecutor right now would be in order since that would pretty much dry up the drum-beat of information prior to next year's election. However after the 2014 election considering the shenanigans of this Administration can anyone think of an agency or department that doesn't merit one or more special prosecutors?

cubanbob said...

How about a poll of American voters on whether or not they want full citizenship rights and benefits given to illegal aliens?

sydney said...

Normally, news like this would encourage me. I would take heart that our country isn't completely lost yet. But, experience has taught me that no matter what these polls say, the nation will turn their eyes away from the sins of Obama and his gang. They did it in 2008. They did it again in 2012. And they will do it again now. There will be no special prosecutor. The MSM will collude with the administration to either ignore these scandals (my local newspaper) or explain them away. And America will comply. Hope I'm wrong.

Tom said...

Next we need to how many times Lois Lerner met with Schulman. It's like playing Clue

Jay Retread said...

Remember when conservatives argued that special prosecutors where unconstitutional? I guess that does not matter anymore.

B said...

Jay Retread said...Remember when conservatives argued that special prosecutors where unconstitutional?

Nope. You're lying. Or maybe just delusional. That seems to happen to a lot of Obama fanboys. Then again, so does lying.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I haven't seen polling numbers that convincing since Dick Morris and Karl Rove called 2012 landslides for Romney!

AprilApple said...

Eric Holder's Pattern of False testimony.

Why did the head of the IRS visit Obama 157 times?

AprilApple said...

RE:ritmo. Can't really comment on Obama's corruption, can you?

bpm4532 said...

Obama and the Dems will try and slow walk this one until the Repubs grow tired.

Mark said...

No matter what a Democrat does, foot soldiers like Ritmo and Retread will be able to fall back on "Republicans are Evil."

It must be nice to be so stupid.

grgeil said...

76 percent of Americans don't even know what a Special Prosecutor is. This answer is what is perceived to be the "correct" answer, and is most likely understood by the respondent to simply mean, "Should this be investigated."

Rhythm and Balls said...

RE: april. No more than you can comment on your obsessive fixation.

You remind me of when Borat agreed with Mel Gibson's contention that Jews were responsible for all the wars in the world. He said, not only that, but Kazakhi scientists had good evidence to suggest that they were also responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs!

Such is the way you think of Obama. He serves as a focus for all your hate, and not there is no thought-crime for which you haven't already convicted him.

Mark said...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the Oversight Committee subpoena anything it wants to? Summon anyone to testify under oath? There was no "Special Prosecutor" during Watergate, yet evidence was collected.

AprilApple said...

Ritmo- What I hate, what normal people hate - is corruption.
Once again we all notice you are unable to comment on it.

Rhythm and Balls said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rhythm and Balls said...

You've been disgusted with Obama ever since he wiped the floor clean with your horrible governing record in 2008 and now call the reason for it "corruption"! Problem solved! Now we have a reason to HATE. Maybe now the rest of the country will understand. Right.

Obama could pick up your dry cleaning and you would complain that he did it in a corrupt way.

Republicans can't write a single law that someone in industry hasn't paid for the privilege to write for themselves and they have the nerve to complain about corruption! Hilarious!

Republicans are war profiteering, environment destroying, economy crashing whores for every special interest. There's not a single bribe that they could ever refuse. But Obama's the corrupt one!

Don't you wish you had the votes to prove that any significant faction beyond your small club agreed?

But hey, Clinton was "corrupt", too, right? Maybe you'll try that impeachment thing again. Get him on the definition of "sexual relations", or somesuch! That'll learn the American people to mess with Republican ambitions!

Yawn.

AprilApple said...

Ritmo try and focus.


Rhythm and Balls said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rhythm and Balls said...

You first.

No one cares, you see. But of course, to you, only Republicans are people.

Time to re-do the wallpaper in your bubble, maybe.

Rhythm and Balls said...

April's looking to avenge the ghost of Nixon and maybe, just maybe, this blackmuslimsocialist guy will do the trick.

We were hoping that Clinton could have been the devil incarnate. But that didn't work.

This guy, though... Maybe, just maybe we can identify an anti-christ in him. Somewhere, deep down.

Obama's definitely got all the makings of anti-christ material. We will find the reasons for it later. Don't worry about the reasons. The important thing is that we get the conclusion right first, and that conclusion is that he is the anti-christ. We know it in our bones. We've known it since before he was born, even.

Mark said...

Republicans are war profiteering, environment destroying, economy crashing whores for every special interest. There's not a single bribe that they could ever refuse. But Obama's the corrupt one!

No, I wouldn't call what the Obama Administration has done with the enforcement arms of Treasury and Justice corrupt; I'd call it criminal. I don't grant that Dems are any better re: corruption (see just about the entire history of Chicago politics) but Tricky Dick will prove to have been a piker when it comes to appropriating the coercive power of Government for personal political gain when compared to the Obama Administration.

But that's okay, because Obama is a Democrat. Well Ritmo, should the Federal Government ever look like the one in Chicago, I can only tell you to be sure you're one of the "good" Democrats, because crap like what Team Obama pulls doesn't tend to stop once the Home Team "wins". Then they start looking for heretics.

But then, you've never shown any inclination other than to lick the boot you find fashionable. So I guess you'll be okay regardless.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I'd call it criminal.

Well I'll be! You'd make an excellent judge and jury, you would!

But then, you've never shown any inclination other than to lick the boot you find fashionable.

This projection is admirable in its effort!

Remember, we are the chaotic ones. The dirty messy hippies. We are loud and we protest.

You guys are the ones who love hierarchy, subservience and authority!

Rhythm and Balls said...

Mark,

We had a name for what you Ken Starr types were all about: Fishing trips.

The American people see that you put twice as much energy into flinging mud at the president than you do governing.

They saw it when you did it with Clinton, too.

Anyway, speaking of Ken Starr, the male sexual repression thread is on another Althouse post today. I suggest you try that one out.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I don't grant that Dems are any better re: corruption (see just about the entire history of Chicago politics) but Tricky Dick will prove to have been a piker when it comes to appropriating the coercive power of Government for personal political gain...

LOL.

Breaking and entering is such an abstract concept for the American people to understand! Someday we will show that Democrats break laws in even cruder ways!

ROFLMAO.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Ken Starr, please save us from this blackmuslimsocialist!

Please!

Use your powers of subpoena to prove that he is a bad, bad, dirty corrupt person!

We beg you!

Just one little fishing trip. It won't cost the taxpayers anything! It'll be like the Clinton days. We will litigate this administration into impotence and that's how we will repeal this horrible and very bad decision of the voters! We can't beat him but we can tie him up in endless hearings -- which is clearly the best use of government!

They will see our wisdom! Someday!

They will thank us!

Rhythm and Balls said...

So, I take it that Chicago has now replaced Boston as the headquarters of all that is evil in America and the left?

Well that's a relief! I was so worried that it would be Texas. Or Alabama! So glad to know that the nexus of all that is evil in America is being coordinated by one city on Lake Michigan!

Helping to focus and concentrate our hatred on specific things is helpful.

One bad leader: Obama! (Not Clinton)

One bad city: Chicago! (Not Boston)

One bad party: Democrats! (Still the same since FDR)

Yeay! Boo!

Yawn.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I think that if we look hard enough into Obama, we might find that he's been hiding WMDs.

Mark said...

Seems I touched Ritmo deeply.

So tell us, was it copacetic that the IRS suppress Conservative groups following the 2010 midterms?

And don't give me any "judge and jury" shit, because the IRS has attempted a limited-hangout disclosure that admits they did.

Are you really okay with that?

Mark said...

Breaking and entering is such an abstract concept for the American people to understand! Someday we will show that Democrats break laws in even cruder ways!

Hey, the US government ran guns into Mexico. That's pretty damned crude. And you know, lots of Mexicans died by those guns, and at least one US Law Enforcement officer.

Keep laughing, asshole.

Mark said...

I think that if we look hard enough into Obama, we might find that he's been hiding WMDs.

He doesn't hide them. They're called drones. He uses them anytime it damn well pleases him, US citizens on the receiving end or not.

Keep laughing, asshole.

Mark said...

And Ritmo, just to be clear, I don't think a Special Prosecutor is needed.

Just like during Watergate, Congress can do it's own dirty work in terms of gathering evidence, deposing witnesses, etc.

And I'm thinking the fishing will be excellent. And broadcast live on CSPAN.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Seems I touched Ritmo deeply.

Hey, Man! Keep your hands to yourself! You're not the IRS!

So tell us, was it copacetic that the IRS suppress Conservative groups following the 2010 midterms?

And don't give me any "judge and jury" shit, because the IRS has attempted a limited-hangout disclosure that admits they did.

Are you really okay with that?


I really couldn't care less that groups that have made their bread and butter off of defunding the government were scrutinized. Theoretically, I know I should. Practically, I think it's ironic as hell.

He doesn't hide them. They're called drones. He uses them anytime it damn well pleases him, US citizens on the receiving end or not.

Love it! Conservative acting like the peace-loving hippie that his libertarian political crutches tell him he needs to be.

Keep laughing, asshole.

Hahahahahahhahaha!!!!

The Party of Special Prosecutorial Fishing Trips to Determine Nature of Sexual Relations and Trillion Dollar Wars to Find Non-Existent Weapons, feels offended at the implication that it might be a little too curious and paranoid about the wrong things?

Hahahahahahaaaaaahhha!!!

But no, really! I do feel for you!

Hahahahahhahaaaahahaaa...

Hey, at least Michelle Bachmann won't be there to have "a penetrating exposé and take ... a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out are they pro-America, or anti-America."

Damn!

Mark said...

Thank you, Ritmo. You do more to screw your cause than I ever could.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Hey, the US government ran guns into Mexico. That's pretty damned crude. And you know, lots of Mexicans died by those guns, and at least one US Law Enforcement officer.

At least one? Well, that's good. What a shame it would be if you could only pin half a death on him. Or a quarter...

Keep laughing, asshole.

Speaking of crudity...

Your concern for Mexico is deeply touching to me. It was almost like a Hallmark moment.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Thank you, Ritmo. You do more to screw your cause than I ever could.

That's fine. There are enough milquetoast moderates and liberals to give the talking points about how horrible and outrageous it is that extremist tax haters were scrutinized to make sure they weren't tax cheats, all the while recognizing that Obama had nothing to do with it. They're covered both politically and legally.

But me, yeah. I do find the irony entertaining.

Mark said...

Do keep talking. Those who love the IRS think you're da bomb.

And yeah, Mexicans aren't really people unless they're voting illegally here, are they?

You are the gift that keeps giving.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Don't worry, Mark. You're in good company. Even Bill Maher feels for the indignities that the Tea Partiers have had to endure (and agrees that there's a scandal but not one that Obama had anything to do with). Here's his take on how bad he guesses they've had to have it.

Horrible, huh?

Mark said...

So, Bill Maher provides your moral compass?

You can like Obama's left boot, he can lick the right.

Rhythm and Balls said...

And yeah, Mexicans aren't really people unless they're voting illegally here, are they?

If they're here, then yes - our government does have and should have more of an interest in their well-being - not just what their status or privileges should be.

But you are still trying to reconcile the imperialist deep within you that Uncle Ron Paul keeps challenging.

We should be circumspect about what we do abroad. That said, I hardly see much of a risk to us based on what we do, legitimately or bunglingly, in Mexico. If you're really concerned about crime and Mexico, listen to Ron and stop the stupid drug war, for Chrissakes. Less political goodies for you to glom onto that way, but it's morally and patriotically a more effective issue to take up.

Mark said...

Keep talking, Ritmo. Everyone wants to hear.

Rhythm and Balls said...

So, Bill Maher provides your moral compass?

Bill Maher's funny. Not that connies understand humor. I agree with him on some things and not on others. Either way, he takes a stand. Stop pretending that you can challenge my independence when you've not shown a lick of independence or parting of philosophical ways with the Republicans.

The whole "Tea Party" charade was so connies could convince us (or more likely, themselves) of their independence of Republican partisanship. In reality, it's proven to have done anything but that.

You can like Obama's left boot, he can lick the right.

Connies show up on Maher's show because he's entertaining and actually takes an interest in the issues, as well as the politics that animate them into seeming actually, well, alive - every once in a while. Maher doesn't agree with Obama on everything, either.

Stop projecting.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Keep talking, Ritmo. Everyone wants to hear.

Doesn't bother me, you Nixonian paranoid.

Mark said...

Eh, the Drug War was a stupid thing at the start and got stupider.

Now it's all about power. Or maybe it always was.

But Obama's not going to concede any power, is he?

Keep talking.

Steve Koch said...

Really encouraging that 63% of dems have enough integrity to demand a special prosecutor to investigate the dictatorial abuses of the IRS. Not surprising that 30% of dems are completely devoid of integrity or understanding what it takes to preserve our democracy.

This is one of those credibility destroying issues, any dem in this thread opposing investigating the IRS with a special prosecutor completely sacrifices his/her credibility.

Not surprising that O Ritmo Secundo uses a sock puppet in this thread, doubly demonstrating a complete lack of integrity and wisdom.

Rhythm and Balls said...

But Obama's not going to concede any power, is he?

On the "Drug War"? The states won't make that easy for him. Neither will liberals.

Keep talking.

What's your problem? It's a conversation, anyway - about issues where some good can be done. Is that what you take issue with? Actually getting something done?

Rhythm and Balls said...

Not surprising that O Ritmo Secundo uses a sock puppet in this thread, doubly demonstrating a complete lack of integrity and wisdom.

Right. Same avatar, partial English translation, totally equal attempt to hide identity.

When it comes to the Party of Ken Starr and Trillion Dollar Wars to Find Missing WMDs, I rightly question the integrity and wisdom and SCOPE of how and what they want to investigate.

Mark said...

What's your problem? It's a conversation, anyway - about issues where some good can be done. Is that what you take issue with? Actually getting something done?

Would that it were. Mostly your side says "shut up you ignorant Althouse hillbillys".

And frankly Ritmo, you're one of the worst about that.

So go probe yourself, and wait for the IRS, because you said something reasonable for a change.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Mostly your side says "shut up you ignorant Althouse hillbillys".

And frankly Ritmo, you're one of the worst about that.


I just recognize the politics. I don't pretend, like you do, that they don't matter or to be above them. Like I said to Steve, investigate all you want. But the scope and intent and integrity of the Party of Ken Starr and Trillion Dollar WMD Wars needs to be questioned.

In any event, I notice you used this to shift the issue back away from agreeing on a pointless drug war, and the fact that Obama's been made to "out-conservative" the conservatives on it. Or maybe he's just a wimp on it.

But good can be done. How come the Republicans don't want to be a part of it? Is chasing scandal really as important as making good policy? It's not like they haven't had five years to prove that if it were the case.

Alex said...

Shitmo - as usual you are full of shit. Quinnipiac had the election results just right. But now they have a poll result that you don't LIKE, so you shit on it like you do everything. You have ZERO intellectual honesty. You are nothing but a typical Alinsky-ite hack.

Rule #12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

Alex said...

My mistake, it's rule #13.

Alex said...

Smell the desperation from the dead-enders like Jay & Shitmo. Even the Democrats want a special prosecutor by 2 to 1.

Alex said...

Steve - so now we know. 30% of Democrats are dead-end zombie freak fucks. That means about 10% of the total population. Maybe America is not fucked after all.

Rhythm and Balls said...

My mistake, it's rule #13.

Lol! You can't even get your own talking points for instilling fear of Fictional Enemy #1 straight! Haha. Keep convincing us of your investigational and forensic interests and capabilities, Clouseau. And good on you for picking an enemy like me to personalize and polarize.

I don't believe in governing by poll, and I doubt an anti-democracy crusader like yourself does either. That said, it all depends on how the question is asked. Obama's popularity/favorability waxes and wanes, doesn't ever really drop much below 50/50, though. The point is, even if something was done inappropriately, it's hard to see how that accrues to Obama, which has been the driving force behind so much of this for so damn long. It's like, I want to have an open mind to what Obama's doing wrong, but my ears are bleeding from all the bellowing the right's been doing since Day #1 about how gosh darn satanic he is that I can't hear anymore. Chicken Little only gets to warn of a falling sky so many times. There's probably something to this but I'll bet the impact would be limited. And for a libertarian to trust the Party that gave you Ken Starr's Fishing Expedition and a Trillion Dollar War to Find Non-Existent WMDs on this is, well, laughable.

But I understand your predicament. You have no votes, and no real party, so trust the Republicans you must. That has to suck. I sure hope for your sake that it all leads to something productive being "uncovered". And hopefully something that Glenn Beck didn't smell and diagram on a chalkboard four years ago already, either.

Alex said...

Shitmo - the thing is I don't give 2 shits about the GOP. I just vote for them because they are less evil then the Commie-Rat party.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Shitmo - the thing is I don't give 2 shits about the GOP. I just vote for them because they are less evil then the Commie-Rat party.

Then you are truly screwed. You need leadership to get anything done. And you live in a country whose government doesn't allow you, it seems, representation. More evil and less evil is a hell of a choice of representation. If that's the case, then living here must feel like something between North Korea and China to you. I'd feel for you, if I thought you were capable of being rational about any of this.

Alex said...

Shitmo - as usual you totally miss the mark. I do not feel like I am living under a dictatorship. I do however feel like our policy is being governed by a bunch of of total incompetent fools. At the local level, all I have are Democrats. Look at Detroit. 40 years of Democrat rules did THAT.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Good point, Alex! (I will have to think of funny profanity to make of your name like you do to me!) Detroit had nothing to do with the collusion between a corrupt and globally uncompetitive auto industry and local government! Nothing at all! Just like private corporations and their lobbyists have nothing to do with how the federal government is run! (And how perfectly it is run, at that). Nada! Zip! Zilch!

Ron has a long way to go on you, it seems.

West Town said...

Guys, it's important that we focus on real enemies like Wealthy Idaho Mormons, Libertarian Plutocrats, and the Tea Party.

Fantasy enemies aren't worth our time. Why worry about Government Accountability, Little Authoritarians and Totalitarians alike, and the Disengaged Citizen?

Rusty said...

) Detroit had nothing to do with the collusion between a corrupt and globally uncompetitive auto industry and local government!

What's their excuse now?

AprilApple said...

Americans are stupid, but this poll shows they have their limits.

Except for ritmo. He's a true believer to the end.

Rusty said...

Yeah. I thought so.

Rhythm and Balls said...

What's their excuse now?

Inertia.

Cities, like all social phenomena, are built on momentum and decay by inertia. Once Detroit's population losses dove under a million, the place was finished.

Another thing that it might be helpful for a cretin like you to remember, is that all cities require a distinct major industry (or two, or three) to economically anchor them. If they want to maintain a good economic network between the core and periphery (as well as within the core), then they'd also better have some system of public transportation. Probably because of the obstinate short-sightedness of the American auto manufacturer and the presumed supremacy of automobiles as the be-all, end-all of transportation, this never occurred in Detroit. The suburbs lived in a fantasy that led them to believe that they could survive and thrive without a city. Which, of course, they couldn't.

American auto manufacturing never recovered what it had attained by the height of its global competitiveness in the late 1950s/early 1960s. The manufacturing centers for what's left of the Big Three are now scattered in various places outside of Detroit.

And most importantly, the population had already gone.

Every other city recovered from the riots of the 1960s because the whites that fled to the suburbs had never entirely written off the cities they fled from. Networks of transportation linking exurbs to urban communities helped that. But in Detroit, independence ruled, and so did independent, personal transportation. There was no reason for fleeing communities to think that they'd ever need anything any more from a city they were so disconnected from, which helped desiccate Detroit's lifeblood, killing it, which in turn gave the surrounding communities less of a reason for existing as well.

It's a lesson in the limits of selfishness. That, and the fact that hot-shot MBAs that brought about the decline of the Big Three did so by deciding that even greater profits were more important than quality. Which was also selfish.

Selfishness.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Americans are stupid, but this poll shows they have their limits.

Except for ritmo. He's a true believer to the end.


Hell will freeze over before April ever makes a major political prediction about America that comes true.