May 6, 2013

"Girl’s Death by Gunshot Is Rejected as Symbol."

Headline at the NYT. 

Under the headline: a photograph of the dead girl's house that seems framed to induce feelings of contempt in NYT readers. Low hills in the background. A rusty, non-upright, rural-style mailbox in the foreground. Unpaved driveway. The house — which seems to be constructed from a long trailer attached to a cinderblock foundation — has a porch with a rusted metal roof held down in one corner by an automobile tire.

The Times's reporter, Trip Gabriel, attended the funeral of the 2-year-old Caroline Sparks (who was shot by her 5-year old brother with a "My First Rifle") in Burkesville, Kentucky.
The death has convulsed this rural community of 1,800 in south-central Kentucky, where everyone seems to know the extended Sparks family, which is now riven by grief. But as mourners gathered for Caroline’s funeral on Saturday, there were equally strong emotions directed at the outside world, which has been quick to pass judgment on the parents and a way of life in which many see nothing unusual about introducing children to firearms while they are still in kindergarten.
Equally strong? Does Trip Gabriel really know how these people feel? He's there, at the funeral, talking to them. But he's the reporter the NYT sent! Imagine yourself in a small town, at the funeral for a 2-year-old girl and there's a NYT reporter, who you know is there because these elite people somewhere, who never otherwise pay any attention to you, see potential to use that girl's dead body for leverage in a national political debate. I don't imagine myself anything nearly this polite:
“This town, there’s nothing like it. They pull together,” Anne Beall, a family friend, said as she left the Norris-New Funeral Home....
Ms. Beall, a 64-year-old retiree, said she had not heard anyone in town call the parents irresponsible for giving a gun to a 5-year-old or for leaving it unlocked. “Pointing fingers doesn’t really accomplish anything,” she said. “Terrible mistakes happen, and I think that’s what happened here.”
I would have said something far less fit to print. And yet Gabriel — no angel — sees fit to write that the mourners' emotions toward the outside world were "equally strong" as the grief over the death. I'm trying to concoct a quote that could have been directed at Gabriel that would actually have be as strong as the grief.
The shooting came after the recent failure in Washington of gun control legislation inspired by the shootings in Newtown, Conn., which exposed a bitter divide on guns. But Burkesville seemed to want no part of being a symbol in a national debate.

“I think it’s nobody else’s business but our town’s,” said a woman leaving a store, who like many people here declined to be interviewed. A woman who answered the phone at the office of John A. Phelps Jr., the chief executive of Cumberland County, whose seat is Burkesville, said, “No, I’m sorry — no more statements,” and hung up.
Apparently, they didn't say "Fuck you" and "Go to hell." The gun-wielding hillbillies did not step up to the task. I’m sorry — no more statements?! How damned disappointing! I wonder how hard Gabriel tried, catching ladies leaving stores, calling people up, creeping around the casket. I wonder how he felt about himself.
After the funeral service, two men advanced across North Main Street toward a single television crew present, from the German network RTL, and punched the cameraman, bloodying his face and knocking him down.

Two other men told a newspaper reporter, “If you had any sense, you’d get out of here. You’re next, buddy.”
Ah, so the media did get some satisfaction. How long did they harass these poor people before they tipped some grief-stricken man to say what they knew somebody ought to say? I'm assuming one man said that quote, even though the article says "Two other men told..." (as if we are to picture a unison declamation). 

The reporters at the funeral call to mind the Westboro Church protesters, who target funerals and love to stand their ground, exercising free speech rights, as if their very purpose was to cause some emotionally overwrought mourner to lash out physically.

171 comments:

St. George said...

Disgusting.

CEO-MMP said...

It's sort of like a Donald Ray Pollock short story, the whole thing.

Photo caption about 'marketed to children'...man. You still have to be at least 18 to buy a long gun. So it doesn't matter, and I've never seen one of those rifles advertised in comic books.

Thanks for being outraged, Professor.

Mogget said...

I wonder how he felt about himself.

Just fine, I'm sure. After all, he's a reporter for the NYT and therefore morally superior in all respects. Practically perfect, in a Mary Poppins sort of way.

Matthew Sablan said...

I was thinking Westboro too before I got to the bottom. There's something unseemly about strangers co-opting a mourning ritual for their own political ends.

Matthew Sablan said...

I also disbelieve the veiled threat. It sounds like what a bad writer would have his good old boy Southern red necks use to threaten someone rather than what a threat really sounds like. I expect that dialog in a comic book as one man gently pats a baseball bat as Bruce Wayne grins confidently at the reader.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Thank you for this excellent post.

Pogo said...

Vultures gotta eat, too.

ErnieG said...

It's a good thing that the local airstrip is too small to accommodate Air Force 1.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

All this talk about the gun culture. What about the swimming-pool culture?

Children ages 1 to 4 have the highest drowning rates. In 2009, among children 1 to 4 years old who died from an unintentional injury, more than 30% died from drowning.1,2 Among children ages 1 to 4, most drownings occur in home swimming pools.2 Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects).1 Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes.

FleetUSA said...

Thanks for your fake. Ours too

FleetUSA said...

Thanks for your fake. Ours too

Clyde said...

I suppose he could go to the funeral of one of the little black kids shot dead in Chicago (a much more frequent occurrence!), but he'd run the risk of a lot more than just a punch in the face. I'm sure the media were surprised at the outbreak of violence; by golly, they'd heard that heartlanders had better manners than that!

Ignorance is Bliss said...

I wonder how he felt about himself.

I don't know how he felt about himself at the time. However, once he got his piece published, I suspect he spent some time congratsurbating himself.

The Drill SGT said...

Low hills in the background. A rusty, non-upright, rural-style mailbox in the foreground. Unpaved driveway. The house — which seems to be constructed from a long trailer attached to a cinderblock foundation — has a porch with a rusted metal roof held down in one corner by an automobile tire.


That rural-style mailbox is what everybody in my wealthy DC suburb uses. Mine leans a bit :)

As for the trailer? I see a mowed lawn, rails on the porch, a place for kids to play, and an intact family, supported by a nurturing community. Far more than most of the people in those NYC zip codes have...

HA said...

Similarly, the NY Times has rejected Gosnell's slaughterhouse as a symbol.

ErnieG said...

I don't think that we've heard the last of this. Expect shrill editorials from across the country, and even more shrill speeches from the floor of Congress.

Phil 3:14 said...

I'd like to know how the NYT heard about the story in the first place. Are they trolling for such stories?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Drill SGT said...

That rural-style mailbox is what everybody in my wealthy DC suburb uses. Mine leans a bit :)

I suspect most of the ones in the DC area lean forward.

SDN said...

Of course we haven't heard the last of it. Leftists never let a crisis go to waste. They just don't define infanticide as a crisis.... unless there isn't enough of it to make Ba'al happy.

megapotamus said...

I'm about as gun-positive as a primate could get but even I would have to blink hard at a kindergartener with a .22. Haven't they ever heard of BB guns? That said, more of this response to the presstitutes, please. I have never been to a town or neighborhood, thoroughly black/ghetto or thoroughly white/country that wouldn't give strangers the benefit of the doubt but these pukes exhausted all doubt. They were there to assault the community. I call a beat-down justifiable.

ed said...

Will the circle be unbroken
By and by, Lord, by and by
There's a better home a-waiting
In the sky, Lord, in the sky

A couple thoughts.

1. Reminds me of the my grandparents trailer. Old but then so were they. And as humble the abode may be, it does not indicate the love therein.

2. NYT. Pity nobody punched him.

Brent said...

They should have told the reporter that it was a "Fast and Furious" gun. I'm betting he would have immediately headed back to NYC.

rhhardin said...

Tipped mailboxes show earth movement.

That's how they proved Antarctica got away from Africa.

Tipped back is best if you want the mail to stay inside after the door rusts off.

ErnieG said...

I went back and read the story again. It reads like the reporter is trying to relive the plot of a '50s film noir B movie. Intrepid reporter visits darkest Deliverance-land...

We are disgusted, but his readers and editors eat that stuff up. He's preaching to the choir.

Steve Kellmeyer said...

Well, I thought reporters didn't get involved in local stories.

Gosnell's, for instance.

Matthew Sablan said...

Oh, Steve, you can't hold them to something they said weeks ago. Like anyone even remembers what was happening then!

CWJ said...

Reminded me of the Muslim looking guys who went to a NASCAR race specifically to gather some good insults and terrorist comments only to be disappointed when they received a no different from anyone else friendly treatment.

Æthelflæd said...

Good on the town for maintaining a united front. That's pretty amazing.

Unknown said...

I think it was Chris Matthews' first book "Hardball" written before he went completely insane where he described an occasion when he was working for Tip O'Neil and a reporter that Mathews had thought was his friend published something that was said to him in confidence.

Mathews went on to say that early in the career of every reporter there is a make or break moment that comes when they are still working at a local paper or TV station. Someone is killed horribly in a crime or accident and it is up to the young reporter to get a photograph and statement from the devastated family.

Normal people can't do this but someone who has what it takes to be a reporter can. In fact it is a requirement. Anybody who is working for the New York Times made his bones that way a long time ago.

How does he feel about himself? How does a Mafia hit man feel about himself? Just fine. There is a selection process. He passed.

When ABC aired this snuff film in 1979 I was shocked and appalled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwhCXqe6Vm0

With more experience of journalists since then, today that would not be my reaction.

Henry said...

I don't think that we've heard the last of this.

My leftist friends collect these stories like baseball cards. It's a big country. Almost any day you can find a corpse to stand on as your soapbox.

Did you hear about the toddler who killed the deputy's wife? I did.

tim in vermont said...

I had a short debate with my sister in law about the gun bill, it went like this:

Her: "All they wanted to do was expand background checks..."

Me: "So why was the bill almost a thousand pages long?"

Her: "I just hate guns."

How do you have a debate like this? You don't, you decide this kind of stuff in elections.

rcommal said...

I think that headline was surprisingly accurate and calm, and, frankly, I'm a little surprised.

TANSTAAFL said...

I call it "reactionary leftists tap dancing on the graves of dead kids.

Hagar said...

5 years is a bit young, but when mine were 7-8 I enrolled them in NRA target shooting classes, so that they would learn proper gun etiquette and not pick up my bad habits.

They grew up to become Democrats, but at least they know which end of a gun is the dangerous one.

Jay said...

The shooting came after the recent failure in Washington of gun control legislation inspired by the shootings in Newtown, Conn

Yes, the Senate didn't pass legislation which wouldn't have prevented any school shootings and subsequently died in the House.

So a 2-year old is dead.

And the NYT is totally objective.
Big truth tellers, those NY reporters.

CEO-MMP said...

but even I would have to blink hard at a kindergartener with a .22.


No less than Elmer Keith himself didn't like bb guns and wouldn't allow his own children to have them. Said they encouraged the belief that guns were toys.

Jay said...

What about the swimming-pool culture?

10 people are going to die today from drowning and yet Harry Reid won't advance legislation banning swimming pools.

Harry Reid simply does not care about people dying in pools or local lakes.

Tina Trent said...

Thank you for saying this.

Tina Trent said...

Thank you for saying this.

Jay said...

tim in vermont said...
I had a short debate with my sister in law about the gun bill, it went like this:


If you didn't read this, you should.

Gun people don’t trust anti-gun people because they lie to us.

I have no interest in "debating" these people.

LYNNDH said...

Ed, you are right-on with comment point 2. I am surprised this person didn't get more than dirty looks.

kathleen said...

How would New Yorkers have reacted to the presence of a conservative family-values reporter at he funeral of the kids slain by their nanny on the upper west side last autumn? "Children Slain by their Nanny Rejected As Symbol". turnabout is fair play.

Rick67 said...

I have been thinking lately about the science-fiction television series "Babylon 5" and how the news media changed after President Clark took control over the Earth Alliance.

And what happened to those same reporters/anchors after Sheridan led the forces that successfully liberated Earth and ended Clark's reign of tyranny?

My point is simply this. There are only so many possibilities before us. Either we will go "full commie" and most news people will find jobs and places in the coming regime. Most. If there is one thing Stalin taught us it is that there are no guarantees. Some of the current crop of lefty pundits and reporters will become victims of the very tyranny they enable.

Or an insurrection - hopefully peaceful - is coming. And then what will happen? How should I feel toward fellow Americans who vote for, defend, enable, cover for, propagandize for what can be described as genuine evil? Does that word seem too strong? Not when you think about how many Americans are in misery and despair because of the effects of progressivism. The more I work with the poor and underprivileged, the more angry I am with the very people who pat themselves on the back for how much time and effort they put in to helping people who are the victims of the very policies they espouse. *Why* is this woman struggling to take care of herself and five children by three different fathers? *Why* is there so much violence in our city that we lament through this genuinely beautiful Waging Peace concert?

Leftists and progressives need to consider seriously that a day of reckoning is coming when they will reap what they sow. I will not harm a hair on their head. But I will not cry for them when no one takes them seriously any more.

El Pollo Real said...

I think 5 is way too young for that sort of thing. I waited until my son was 11 to get him a BB gun rifle. And while a BB gun could put somebody's eye out, it could never kill.
___________________
Yes, rcommal, I know. I'm trying.

Mitchell the Bat said...

I live in the suburbs and just about everybody has those rural-style mailboxes.

Almost all of them are leaning and it looks bad.

So I installed ours making certain it was perfectly plumb and level and I dug a hole way below the frostline and I used 120 lbs of concrete.

Two months later I changed my mind and wished I'd put in a different style of post.

Nuts.

Oh, well.

Hey, at least it's still plumb and level after 15 years.

That's something, anyway.

Mandy Moreno said...

Don't parents give 5 year olds toy guns anymore?

ricpic said...

Liberals can't accept that bad things happen. "Something must be done!" And then when bad things happen based on the something that's been done they go into overdrive because "Something must be done to undo the bad that something must be done's done done!" Rinse and repeat.

Aridog said...

Matthew Sablan said...

I also disbelieve the veiled threat.

You're right, of course. It's city folk and Hollywood types who think trash talking is part of fighting.

My experience in the deep rural south is that if you angered or insulted someone they just fired up...no conversation.

Hagar said...

... when mine were 7-8 I enrolled them in NRA target shooting classes,...

Just like my dad did for me in 1949-50. I earned my first badge (NRA Junior Sharpshooter) at the age of 8. My father wasn't even a "gun guy" ... he merely wanted me to learn, safely, what he'd learned back in his farm youth.

CEO-MMP said...

No less than Elmer Keith himself didn't like bb guns ... Said they encouraged the belief that guns were toys.

My dad was the same way, for the same reason. Ole Elmer Keith was a big bore & big bullet advocate anyway...can't imagine him ever liking anything with a caliber that didn't start with at least .4xx. To this day I feel that way about pistols ... .45 is the only way to go.

chrisnavin.com said...

Thanks for keeping an eye on them.

Larry J said...

Hagar said...
5 years is a bit young, but when mine were 7-8 I enrolled them in NRA target shooting classes, so that they would learn proper gun etiquette and not pick up my bad habits.


It's good to teach children firearms safety even (perhaps especially) if you don't have guns in your home. They need to know what to do if they find a gun or if one of their friends brings out a gun. The NRA has been teaching firearms safety for many years and they do it well.

As to the age when a child is introduced to shooting, it depends on the maturity of the child. In his book, "An Autobiography of Values", Charles Lindberg wrote of hunting with his father, walking behind him carrying a loaded rifle when he was only 5 years old. It isn't unheard of by any stretch of the imagination. One of my coworkers told me about what he did when he gave his son a shotgun. He set up a watermelon and had the kid (perhaps 13 at the time) shot it to teach him that a gun is capable of great destruction and must be handled with care.

CEO-MMP said...

Me too, Ari. I have a couple of Bisleys I load up like Seyfried and Keith, but even more mild loads are plenty tough.

I finally picked up a couple of .44 magnums, just because I'd never owned one, and was shocked at how obnoxious they are to shoot compared with the .45s, for about the same energy.

roesch/voltaire said...

Of course five year olds point guns at others, usually only toys,which is why real guns are supposed to be locked and secured until an adult is present-- this is not a "bad" thing that happened, but an act of carelessness that could have been prevented with a common sense approach to gun ownership. But the NRA wants all kids to be armed and ready in the home, in the classroom , and so the death toll will roll on as this country obsesses about gun rights vs public safety.

CatherineM said...

Thank you Althouse for posting this.

I agree with the person who said, "why aren't they going to a child's funeral in Chicago?" We know why.

This reporter is no better than Westboro. You can hear his contempt and pity (what looks like a trailer) for those who aren't in a cool SoHo loft.

The Drill SGT said...

He set up a watermelon and had the kid (perhaps 13 at the time) shot it to teach him that a gun is capable of great destruction and must be handled with care.

The lesson I got was with a number 10 (bit more than a gallon) can of tomato sauce.

Memorable and frightening. Just what you need with a ten year old...

Jay said...

But the NRA wants all kids to be armed and ready in the home, in the classroom ,

You're a pretty pathetic liar.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Jay said...

Gun people don’t trust anti-gun people because they lie to us.

roesch/voltaire said...

...the NRA wants all kids to be armed and ready in the home, in the classroom...

Both to us and about us.

roesch/voltaire said...

Jay the goal of the NRA is to have everyone armed and carrying- so this is only at present a slight exaggeration. Ah but the teen who shot his six year old sister in Florida Saturday is also not symbolic of this gun policy-- just another of the many deaths caused by good/bad people with guns.

Jay said...

roesch/voltaire,

I'm old enough to remember when the gun grabbers whined that children were not taught gun safety.

Matthew Sablan said...

That's the sort of jerkishness in response to a dead kid is why people didn't want to talk to the reporter. Thanks for the object lesson R/V.

Andy Freeman said...

"Have you no shame?"
"Why should I? I'm your better and you should feel good that I decided to use you."

timb said...

It's always special when Ann blames the people doing their job. Dude deserved to get his face punched too, because an law professor at an elite school knows that poor people in Southern Kentucky can't act to societal norms.

I would bet that the reporter's exposure to these people in that week is more than the cumulative time Ann has experienced our cracker heritage.

Takes balls to accuse someone of elitism when you're Ann Althouse

timb said...

It's always special when Ann blames the people doing their job. Dude deserved to get his face punched too, because an law professor at an elite school knows that poor people in Southern Kentucky can't act to societal norms.

I would bet that the reporter's exposure to these people in that week is more than the cumulative time Ann has experienced our cracker heritage.

Takes balls to accuse someone of elitism when you're Ann Althouse

Aridog said...

roesch/voltaire said...

But the NRA wants all kids to be armed and ready in the home, in the classroom, ...

I understand your sentiment about a child, however....will you please give me a citation where the NRA says what you assert (and imply about)above?

I've got about 60+ years experience with and in the NRA and from day one we were taught safety first, range manners and protocols, and appropriate means to store firearms when not actually engaged in firing on line.

Nothing scares me more than a new person on a range with a pistol and no NRA or military training. That's the one who will turn around to ask a question with a loaded handgun in their hand, safety off (if it even has a real safety these days)now pointed at your gut. This is why a trainer stands so close behind a new pistol shooter...to block the idiot if they try to turn around with gun in hand.

Next worst is the newbie at the trap range who just refuses to carry his shotgun with breech open when off line....and usually doesn't mind dry-firing shotguns in the club house, breech closed. Closest thing to a fist fight I've had in the last 10 years was over this issue.

As for teaching new shooters, you have to be super attentive...and the older smarter more educated new shooters are the most risky. As cadre years ago training newly minted Lieutenants (Lawyers) and Captains (Doctors) I learned to count every shot of the squad under my care to make sure no live rounds went home with them.

Its all well and good to prefer not to be a gun person or a shooter...but realize that there comes a time when we ask (sometimes demand) young men and women take up arms on our behalf. The more familiar from the git go the safer they and we all are in the end result.

phx said...

Under the headline: a photograph of the dead girl's house that seems framed to induce feelings of contempt in NYT readers. Low hills in the background. A rusty, non-upright, rural-style mailbox in the foreground. Unpaved driveway. The house — which seems to be constructed from a long trailer attached to a cinderblock foundation — has a porch with a rusted metal roof held down in one corner by an automobile tire.

Althouse poisons the well first thing. The presentation of the house is somehow the photographer's, or the newspaper's responsibility - not the owner's or tenant's responsibility.

Of course if the New York Times wasn't such a liberal rag they would have airbrushed all that crap out of there I suppose.

Hagar said...

Elmer Keith is first of all known for developing the .357 cartridge.

When I was in the Army, I always volunteered for ammo duty when the company was at the firing range, since this allowed me to sit down with my head low in a protected area and so relatively safe from the big city draftees wandering around with their bolts locked and finger on the triggers of their M-1's.

Bruce Hayden said...

I see that Jay found the link for Tim in Vermont about not trusting gun grabbers. Here is the link again: Snell: Waking the dragon — How Feinstein fiddled while America burned:

I’ve come to realize after the Sandy Hook shooting that the reason we can’t have a rational gun debate is because the anti-gun side pre-supposes that their pro-gun opponents must first accept that guns are bad in order to have a discussion about guns in the first place. Before we even start the conversation, we’re the bad guys and we have to admit it. Without accepting that guns are bad and supplicating themselves to the anti-gunner, the pro-gunner can’t get a word in edgewise, and is quickly reduced to being called a murderer, or a low, immoral and horrible human being.
...
Hell, it’s even gotten so bad that a little kid was expelled from school recently for biting a Pop Tart into the vague shape of a handgun during lunch break (it looked more like Idaho to me).

Liberals always make the common plea, “We need to get some experts to solve this problem!” for any public policy issue that comes along, which is a good thing. But when it comes to the gun issue, gun expertise is completely irrelevant to the anti-gunner — people who probably have never fired a gun or even touched one in real life, and whose only experience with guns is what they’ve seen in movies or read about in bastions of (un)balanced, hyper-liberal journalism, like Mother Jones. That a pro-gun person might actually know a lot about their hobby or profession doesn’t stand up against the histrionic cries of the anti-gunner.

How can we “gun people” honestly be expected to come to the table with anti-gunners when anti-gunners are willfully stupid about guns, and openly hate, despise and ridicule those of us who own them? There must first be respect and trust — even just a little — before there can be even the beginnings of legitimate discussion of the issue.


And he is just getting wound up there.

edutcher said...

I knew a kid named Trip.

Nicknamed, actually; his given name was Edward.

But I can just see the reaction of the locals as this dork walks up and says, "My name is Trip Gabriel and I'm from the New York Times".

roesch/voltaire said...

Jay the goal of the NRA is to have everyone armed and carrying- so this is only at present a slight exaggeration.

It is?

And exactly where is this recorded?

Other than Media Matters or Puffington.

Matthew Sablan said...

"The presentation of the house is somehow the photographer's, or the newspaper's responsibility - not the owner's or tenant's responsibility."

-- If you don't realize the pictures, images and articles chosen for a paper are part of the paper's advocacy/bias, you should refine your B.S. detector. The picture was chosen for a reason as opposed to, say, photos of the grieving family.

Jay said...

phx said...

Althouse poisons the well first thing. The presentation of the house is somehow the photographer's, or the newspaper's responsibility -


Yes, because what is included in the photo, and the angle of the photo, is totally up to the homeowner.

You're really pathetic.

The Drill SGT said...

Hagar? M1? really?

And I thought I was old :) I used an M-14 in Basic. By the time I was a drill 20 months later, it was M-16's

Did you have BARs? M1919s?

ErnieG said...

Jay the goal of the NRA is to have everyone armed and carrying- so this is only at present a slight exaggeration.

That's like the canard about the suggestion that all teachers be armed and carrying. The real goal is to have enough people armed in enough places that a potential shooter would be discouraged by the uncertainty of the situation. It wouldn't take very many to accomplish that.

phx said...

-- If you don't realize the pictures, images and articles chosen for a paper are part of the paper's advocacy/bias, you should refine your B.S. detector. The picture was chosen for a reason as opposed to, say, photos of the grieving family.

Crimescenes are never photographed, never of interest to the public? Google up "Clutter home" for example.

Matthew Sablan said...

And what value to understanding the crime does the exterior of the house? Did the shooting happen there? No. The point of the picture is to let the NYT readers feel superior and continue to look down on the other.

phx said...

"Kristian Sparks shot his sister, Caroline, with a .22-caliber rifle around 1 p.m. Tuesday inside the family’s mobile home in rural Burkesville, Cumberland County."
NY Daily News

Matthew, isn't that the house in question? I really disagree that a photograph of the scene isn't of value to the public.

ErnieG said...

@Drill Sgt:

I qualified with an M1 and a 1911 as well, and got to fire a BAR for familiarization. That thing is awesome on slow fire.

On the serious side, I was detailed as Range Safety Officer one Saturday morning for a class of officers at the Ordnance School at APG. These guys were National Guard and Reserve, and mostly Captains and Majors. The way they handled their weapons scared the living hell out of me. That's about the only time a Second Lieutenant gets to yell at a Major. Respectfully, of course.

Matthew Sablan said...

How is a picture of the exterior of interest if the shooting happened inside?

JAL said...

The shooting came after the recent failure in Washington of gun control legislation inspired by the shootings in Newtown, Conn., which exposed a bitter divide on guns.

The Newtown shooting and the Kentucky shooting would not have been affected in any way had the legislation not "failed" -- before or after the shootings.

As above -- recently Michelle O was politicating about how children in neighborhoods go to bed afraid they are going to be shot.

Well, Michelle, sure thing. Look. Where. They. Live.

We live where there are firearms in almost every house in the neighborhood and we know of no one's kids going to bed being afraid of being shot. Our kids grew up in a rural area where there were firearms in the houses. (And we were not "gun people.") Getting shot was not even on the radar.

And since the end goal would have to be confiscating every single gun (and in Chicago, MRO, this of course means all the thousands of *illegal* ones which kill little girls and mostly black males Chicago neighborhoods) that still won't fix it.

Things happen. Very sad bad things happens. We can't stop it all, even with "gun control legislation inspired by the shootings in Newtown, Conn.,"

“Pointing fingers doesn’t really accomplish anything,” [Mrs Beall] said. “Terrible mistakes happen, and I think that’s what happened here.”

A friend's kids were swinging on grapevines (this is the South) and the daughter hit a tree and died. The parents should have kept them inside watching TV.

Another friend's teenage son accidentally shot and killed his friend crossing through a fence line. They should have been inside playing Nintendo.

Shit happens.

And the folk in Burkesville are right in rejecting the little girl's death as a symbol.

They don't want or need to be somebody's symbol. They are real people who grieve. Leave them alone.

phx said...

Apparently, they didn't say "Fuck you" and "Go to hell." The gun-wielding hillbillies did not step up to the task. I’m sorry — no more statements?! How damned disappointing! I wonder how hard Gabriel tried, catching ladies leaving stores, calling people up, creeping around the casket. I wonder how he felt about himself.

Line after line of this made up fantasy bullshit.

Matthew Sablan said...

The answer, of course, is because the author is trying to tell a fable, not practice journalism.

phx said...

How is a picture of the exterior of interest if the shooting happened inside?

Matthew, are you kidding?

Synova said...

I had forgotten...

We once managed to put a .22 cartridge in the end of a BB gun (or a pellet gun)and shot it at the cement floor and got it to blow up. (Hitting a cement floor might explode a rimfire cartridge while hitting a person never would have. But we'd have *never* pointed even a "toy" gun at a person.)

I have a really calm father. I can count the number of times he blew his top during my childhood on one hand. That was one of them.

When I had first heard of this I didn't think it was wrong to let the kid handle the rifle, but I assumed that it had been loaded and the parent hadn't cleared it. Now that I think of it, the parent may have carefully cleared it and/or it may have *never* been loaded. I know 5 year olds. No negligence is required for this to have happened.

(And yeah... if this guy got out of town without injury, he should be praising those people.)

phx said...

The answer, of course, is because the author is trying to tell a fable, not practice journalism.

Sure, if you think zebras not horses. Or if you start with a theory that the media in question was out to make the family look bad and then look for the "evidence" to fit your theory.

JAL said...

And as for r/v -- What you wrote is just stupid re kids being armed in classrooms.

And this? the goal of the NRA is to have everyone armed and carrying- so this is only at present a slight exaggeration.

Show us where the goal of the NRS is to have EVERYONE (men, women and children of all ages!!11!!) armed and carrying?

so this is only at present a slight exaggeration

??!!111!!?

{Note to self: Scroll by r/v. No useful content.}

Matthew Sablan said...

"Matthew, are you kidding?"

-- No, go ahead. Explain to me if you're theory is that this is solely meant to educate, why are we taking these pictures? Plenty of news stories, in fact, run without pictures.

Why does a shooting, out in the middle of nowhere, get this level of coverage from the NYT?

Explain to me the news value of this story that it is worth the resources spent on it. Shootings in New York City get less coverage in the NYT; so, tell me.

What's the purpose of the story?

Matthew Sablan said...

Think of it more like this: We turned around and we saw zebras; now we're trying to figure out why there are zebras there.

phx said...

Here's just one example of an overnight shooting inside a home reported in a paper - probably Gannett. Note the number of pictures taken OUTSIDE the home.

I guess they're trying to make all sorts of good people look bad these days by unfairly printing photos of their homes after a killing.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/314983/8/2-dead-1-injured-in-Citrus-Park-shooting

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matthew Sablan said...

Don't you think it is weird comparing a local news group to the NYT?

The Drill SGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Drill SGT said...

These guys were National Guard and Reserve, and mostly Captains and Majors. The way they handled their weapons scared the living hell out of me.

LOL,

I ran a rifle range at Meade (down the street) in the late 80's for my Reserve HQ. Yep, Reserve Officers can be a bit unsafe, especially if they are Democrats from Maryland. I was a Major at the time, the G3 Training Officer, and as a former Drill with lots of active time, I was a natural for the range duty. I enjoyed the day overall...Ranges aren't unsafe places though as long as you maintain absolute control, and use shame liberally. No Major wants to be told to go sit in the bleachers to wait to refire.

Grenade Range and the Close Combat Course? Those were the worst days as a Drill.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Synova said...

...No negligence is required for this to have happened.

I strongly disagree. If you have guns and children in the house, then either the guns or the ammunition ( or the children ) need to be locked up ( or in some other way inaccessible ) any time they are not in use.

phx said...

Don't you think it is weird comparing a local news group to the NYT?

I get it. It's perfectly reasonable when a local news group prints a photo of the outside of a home, but it's nefarious when the NYTimes does it.

You guys and commitments to fair play.

Matthew Sablan said...

Also, note the different circumstances. The story you're looking at is about a murder; this was not an accidental, tragic shooting. This was a crime. The two stories are not comparable except on the extreme surface details; why are you trying to draw a parallel?

So, again, what is the point of the NYT's coverage of this story?

Aridog said...

Matthew Sablan said...

Why does a shooting, out in the middle of nowhere, get this level of coverage from the NYT?

Easy one. Because it didn't involve cutting the heads of black babies in Philadelphia!

Phx ... God forbid it should happen, but if an out of town reporter showed up at a child of mines funeral asking questions and poking around, I'd likely kill the reporter myself...an ax or just an handle would do fine. Rage generated in anguish is frequently unstoppable. This guy is lucky he got out of town alive. Really.

What somebody else said about dead children in Chicago....also Detroit (where I live), NYC, et al. How many "symbols" are sought there? Isn't hundreds better than one?

I don't think a punk reporter from the NYT would live through doing a similar story about a dead black child in a Detroit church funeral ... but I could be wrong, it might just be, actually it is likely, that the black families of Detroit have better manners than the punk fucking reporter from New York.

phx said...

Also, note the different circumstances. The story you're looking at is about a murder; this was not an accidental, tragic shooting. This was a crime.

Okay, here's an accidental shooting that happened last night and here's the SunTimes picture. Gee, what is it but the outside of the home where it happened.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-home-alone-shooting-20130504-001,0,1137059.photo

TosaGuy said...

"On the serious side, I was detailed as Range Safety Officer one Saturday morning for a class of officers at the Ordnance School at APG. These guys were National Guard and Reserve, and mostly Captains and Majors. The way they handled their weapons scared the living hell out of me. That's about the only time a Second Lieutenant gets to yell at a Major. Respectfully, of course."

The explanation is not their rank or that they were guard or reserve -- it is the fact that they were in the ordinance branch or any of the other non-combat jobs in the Army.

A whole bunch of our nation's military only fires a weapon once a year.

phx said...

Stick to your guns though Matthew. At this point what difference does it make?

phx said...

First it was because it was a small local paper and not the New York Times. Now it's because it was an accidental shooting and not a crimescene.

How do you want to change the goalposts next?

Matthew Sablan said...

So is your point other reporters are also dicks? I fail to see what you're trying to say. What the NYT reporter did is jerkish; if other reporters are also jerks, that... doesn't have anything to do with the initial question: Why was this a major news story big enough to draw the NYT's resources and money?

Synova said...

IiB, I'm not saying what happened because I don't know what happened.

I'm only saying that there is at least one scenario where the parents did everything they were supposed to do. In hindsight, not *enough* to thwart the ingenuity of a 5 year old, of course, but everything they were supposed to do, including carefully clearing the .22 before letting the child handle it. The ammo may have been put carefully away "out of the kid's reach."

(A person can disagree on letting a 5 year old handle a real (or even toy) gun, but other people would say that they should. That in itself is not negligence.)

Again... I don't know what happened. I'm only saying that the parents did not *have* to do something wrong for this to have happened.

It's not inappropriate to talk about how to make sure your kids are safe around guns, of course.

Matthew Sablan said...

Phx: This is a conversation; believe it or not, there can be more than one thing wrong with something to make a comparison not work. For example, if you were to compare me to a woman with blonde hair and say we are alike, and I said: "I'm not a woman!" Then I were to say "I'm not blonde!", I am not moving the goal posts. I am pointing out a separate problem with your argument.

Mick Havoc said...

Adlai Stevenson accidently shot and killed a 16 year old girl when he was 12.
William Burroughs killed his wife while trying to shoot an apple off of her head.
But they didn't live in a trailer, so no problem.

Synova said...

My opinion on the picture of the home... if you're not going to print pictures of people, you have to print a picture of *something*. So... the home.

But sending a reporter from a major newspaper to cover the story at all is certainly politically motivated by a desire to portray the deadly error of pro-gun hicksville.

Methadras said...

Matthew Sablan said...

I was thinking Westboro too before I got to the bottom. There's something unseemly about strangers co-opting a mourning ritual for their own political ends


Urkel should heed your lesson well I would think.

phx said...

Phx: This is a conversation; believe it or not, there can be more than one thing wrong with something to make a comparison not work. For example, if you were to compare me to a woman with blonde hair and say we are alike, and I said: "I'm not a woman!" Then I were to say "I'm not blonde!", I am not moving the goal posts. I am pointing out a separate problem with your argument.

Fair enough Matthew. I disagree with you obviously but I don't to go overboard pushing my point. Just IMO Synova starts from a better more reasonable place than does your argument.

Æthelflæd said...

phx believes the NYT is too dumb to carefully select what stories it reports on, and what pictures it chooses. They draw ideas for stories randomly out of a hat. They put they pictures on the wall and throw darts blindfolded, kinda like pin the tail on the donkey, to select the accompanying photographs. No thought or planning goes into it at all.

phx said...

Of course, I didn't notice your comparison of the reporter to Westboro church members. Althouse and you are just trying to hustle us there. Or you got hustled yourself.

Matthew Sablan said...

You actually -don't- have to run a picture with a story. Plenty of stories don't have images.

phx said...

phx believes the NYT is too dumb to carefully select what stories it reports on, and what pictures it chooses. They draw ideas for stories randomly out of a hat. They put they pictures on the wall and throw darts blindfolded, kinda like pin the tail on the donkey, to select the accompanying photographs. No thought or planning goes into it at all.

Right, I know what you're thinking: because thought and planning goes into it, the NYTimes MUST be thinking and planning like Westboro Church members.

Todd said...

Matthew Sablan, I think a better question for Phx would be: How many other small town (outside of NY) accidental shootings has the NYT devoted resources to? Not only a physical reporter but also valuable (maybe more so) paper real estate, going so far as to include a photo?

The answer to that qustion and the reason why this story was selected is the answer(s) that Phx will not face.

furious_a said...

Why was this a major news story big enough to draw the NYT's resources and money?

...because NYT's new judgment allowed them to transparently conflate two unrelated events thus:

The shooting came after the recent failure in Washington of gun control legislation...

...because of course the passage of expanded background checks and the expansion of classes of banned firearms would have prevented what happened in Kentucky.

phx said...

You actually -don't- have to run a picture with a story. Plenty of stories don't have images.

I'm trying to step back from calling your points ridiculous but you're making it very difficult!

Matthew Sablan said...

No, seriously Phx, a lot of stories don't run pictures. Sure, it is easier to do it now in the Internet age, but you don't need a photo. So, the argument that there needed to be one is an empty argument.

You need to do better; why pick that photo?

phx said...

Oh I can respect an argument that the NYTimes is trying to spin the debate.

However an argument that starts off with Lookie at da picture! and Dey're as bad as Westboro! and Just tink of da journalist cweeping awound da poor dead girl's casket, how can he live wid himsef?

Stricly baby food for Limbaugh listeners.

phx said...

Not really upset with you Matthew. It's Althouse that gets me on this one. She should know better.

Jay said...

phx said...

However an argument that starts off with Lookie at da picture! and Dey're as bad as Westboro! and Just tink of da journalist cweeping awound da poor dead girl's casket, how can he live wid himsef?


Right, because that is totally what happened.

Hey, you know how you know when someone is telling the truth?

When they attack straw men.

Really, you're like a big truth teller and stuff.

JAL said...

the NYTimes MUST be thinking and planning like Westboro Church members.

Well, isn't it?

Broomhandle said...

Of course, they're not trying to sensationalize the tragedy to forward an agenda. Perish the thought.

furious_a said...

Lookie at da picture...

Picture best able to reinforce stereotypes, as opposed to, say, the "Welcome to..." sign at the city limits. Well played NYT, well played.

Dey're as bad as Westboro!

Since you've already conceded that NYT is pushing an agenda, then the comparison with intruding in a small towns grief works, as well.

phx said...

Of course, they're not trying to sensationalize the tragedy to forward an agenda. Perish the thought.

I don't mind anyone attempting to make that argument. I'll give a respectful listen.

Of course if you're going to make your evidence up out of fairy dust...

Synova said...

Well... as far as NYT vs. Westboro goes, there's "similar" and there's "same."

I doubt that anyone is claiming that it's the same but certainly there are similarities.

The idea that the reporter was trying to "get a rise" out of the people in the town isn't far fetched at all. And then "reporting" that the people directed emotions toward the outside world equal to their grief... pretty clearly the reporter himself prompted that defensive attitude. People aren't DUMB. They know very well that the guy is a judgmental prick who will portray them as crazy-ass hicks.

phx said...

Since you've already conceded that NYT is pushing an agenda, then the comparison with intruding in a small towns grief works, as well.

When did I do that? See, your bullshit idea is worthless if you can't comprehend what you are reading here.

Broomhandle said...

Of course if your going to refuse to see what is glaringly obvious just because it doesn't fit your worldview...

phx said...

The idea that the reporter was trying to "get a rise" out of the people in the town isn't far fetched at all.

Sure but you have no evidence for that, in the story or anywhere else.

phx said...

Of course if your going to refuse to see what is glaringly obvious just because it doesn't fit your worldview...

No, you start with a worldview then look for evidence to confirm it.

phx said...

Since you've already conceded that NYT is pushing an agenda, then the comparison with intruding in a small towns grief works, as well.

No wonder some of you guys come to the conclusions you do, you have no idea how to think.

Titus said...

I bet the NYT writer had a difficult time finding a fab restaurant and 4 star hotel.

Hagar said...

@ Drill Sgt,
M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine, Browning M1919 and M2 (I is an M2 expert I is! Know how to clean one!), BAR, etc.

And when I was very young, we would steal ammo and flares and landmines and stuff from the Germans and blow up treestumps and fenceposts and things with it. Most boys just love things that go bang very loudly!

Broomhandle said...

Most liberals I know receive a worldview from others and then strenuously ignore anything that might challenge it.

Hagar said...

A lot of Norwegians my age have a few fingers missing off their throwing hand. We would take the bullets out of rifle ammunition, fill a shell full of powder and crimp in a short fuse, then light the fuse and throw it. The bravest kids would count to three and try to have the thing explode in mid-air. Hence the missing fingers.

Big Mike said...

That rural-style mailbox is what everybody in my wealthy DC suburb uses. Mine leans a bit :)

Mine too. The Nazis who run the homeowners' association are making bad noises so next weekend I'd better make it more vertical.

As for the trailer? I see a mowed lawn, rails on the porch, a place for kids to play, and an intact family, supported by a nurturing community. Far more than most of the people in those NYC zip codes have ...

What do you mean, Drill SGT? The kids don't play on a mowed lawn because there isn't any lawn -- that's what the street is for. And they don't just have rails on the porch; they have bars on the windows.

And Kentucky there's some father who should have taken his kid out to the woods and taught the boy gun safety before turning over the .22. Both father and son paid a Hell of a price for that not happening.

Big Mike said...

No wonder some of you guys come to the conclusions you do, you have no idea how to think.

I've said the same thing about you, piled-high excrement, with much more reason.

phx said...

I've said the same thing about you, piled-high excrement, with much more reason.

Big Mike, never had a thought that didn't have piled-high excrement in it.

furious_a said...

if you can't comprehend...

...or...

you have no idea how to think.

Coming from someone who can't even recognize the news judgement behind the photograph, that's just...well, projection.

Ignorant, hostile and profane is no way to go through life, son.

phx said...

Ignorant, hostile and profane is no way to go through life, son.

Damn I'm a little hostile this morning. Sorry furious_a. Try to watch what I'm conceding to though, if you please.

phx said...

I'm sorry for being that nasty to furious_a. There was no call for that.

furious_a said...

phx: Alright, I used conceded deliberately to get a rise. That wasn't very sporting.

Accepted in the spirit offered, and vice versa.

Carry on.

Stuart Baggish said...

There’s a bar graph available (URL http://extranosalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/10allhomicide.gif) that compares the various types of accidental deaths counted in the most recent decennial census.

Interestingly, accidental gun deaths rank far down the list of most common causes. If you want to make an impact against accidental deaths, then your time would be better spent going after poisons that are ingested with fatal results before going after guns. Motor vehicle accidents are the number one killer. But nobody is talking about banning automobiles, though they kill — Or is it their drivers who kill? — 33,608 Americans each year, which is far more than the 606 accidental gun deaths occurring over the same period.

Of course, I am naturally suspicious any time someone starts promoting an agenda by saying something like “Every year _____ people die as a result of ________,” because it’s obvious manipulation. It’s even worse when they resort to “Every year _____ CHILDREN die as a result of ________.” In both instances, there are relevant questions that must be addressed before we can say there is cause for concern.

For example, when talking about the sheer number of “people” who have died, it is misleading because ALL people eventually die of something. So the fact that a certain number of them die of a particular cause doesn’t mean anything, unless they are dying prematurely, which the statistic ignores.

Secondly, in the example involving “children,” it just gets downright morbid. Children aren’t supposed to die of ANYTHING. The fact that they are included in the statistical field alone is cause for concern, irrespective of how they got there, which is secondary. The entire field could consist of only 100 children killed out of 100 million total children. So telling you that any percentage of them died of a particular cause usually indicates a very small number of childhood deaths because most children don’t die. When someone tells you that drunk drivers, artificial sweeteners or out-of-control-kites are the leading cause of death for children between the ages of 5 and 16, you have to ask, “Would you be happier if those kids had drowned instead?” It’s a tragedy that they’re in your statistical sample at all, so quit trying to manipulate me, Dr. Kevorkian.

Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is interesting, but what they conceal is vital.

Kirk Parker said...

phx said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Ah, finally some sense from you!

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Too bad The Cricket doesn't come with a pistol grip and bayonet mount, or we could really get some mileage out of this thing...

phx said...

phx said...

"This comment has been removed by the author."

Ah, finally some sense from you!


I'm glad you approve!

Did you see what I said about you?

CEO-MMP said...

Hagar said...

Elmer Keith is first of all known for developing the .357 cartridge.

When I was in the Army, I always volunteered for ammo duty when the company was at the firing range, since this allowed me to sit down with my head low in a protected area and so relatively safe from the big city draftees wandering around with their bolts locked and finger on the triggers of their M-1's.:

I'd say best known for the .44 mag, but that's me and doesn't mean you're wrong.

furious_a said...

...and the presence of a German TV news crew is serendipitous. Were they simply passing nearby on their way back from the Kentucky Deby to ??? or else airfreighted in special on Lufthansa?

Slow news day in the Fatherland what with the trial of a Nazi terror cell in Munich delayed on appeal.

What is it about German TV news crews that provokes attacks from angry locals?

Aridog said...

Hagar, et al....does y'all still have your tools?

Aridog said...

CEO-MMP .... damn you for your talk about .45 Bisleys. I've always thought I should have one, but resisted the temptation. You are NOT helping. What is your opinion of the Ruger version with actual target sights? Of course I dream of K-38 S&W trigger sensitivity.

The grip size and alignment is best of type for single action use. I fired one in .45 Long Colt hot loaded to magnum pressures...WOW.

Ever since....now I may just cave...I've got a Ruger/45 .22 caliber target pistol I'm not using much, due for a trade right? Of course it is. Thanks for reminding me. I needed the help and added expense since I'm also looking for a vintage Remington Model 32 or Valmet clone trap gun...unless I can get lucky an meet a clueless widow who inherited a nice Kreighoff and wants to get rid of it. :)

Damnit.

Matt said...

James O'Keefe tactics. For shame! Wait.... Oh, only when liberals do this is it bad. Got it.

Synova said...

When James O'Keefe bothers people mourning at a funeral... you might have a point.

Pollygon said...

What were these parents thinking giving a five year old a weapon that shoots real bullets? Some people take better care of their pets.

Todd said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Todd said...

Matt said...

James O'Keefe tactics. For shame! Wait.... Oh, only when liberals do this is it bad. Got it.


Actually, I do not recall James hounding anyone. I do recall he and his going into situations and letting the targets of his videos just do what they normally do. Unlike the "fake but accurate" official news. It is his showing of the "this is what we do everyday" hypocrisy that is the reason he is hated so.

Sean D Sorrentino said...

You are a lot more polite than I was when I responded to the blood dancers.

http://www.ncgunblog.com/2013/05/02/stop-pretending-that-you-care-language-warning/

Jay said...

Matt said...
James O'Keefe tactics


Oh really?

How so?

Matt said...

Jay said...
How so

It's similar in the sense that you go into an area with a preconceived notion about the way that a certain people / group / organization will think / act and then you wait around until they prove you right. Even if you have to provoke. Then from that you draw generalized conclusions. It's a tactic that is used by both liberals and conservatives in media to support their world view or the world view of their readers / followers.

This article was written for liberals and moderates who want gun control and think southerners are simple hicks.

When O'Keefe does his tactics he is using the same general guidelines to please conservatives who think gov't organizations are not only inefficient but full of corrupt liberals or leftists.

Kirk Parker said...

Aridog,

" due for a trade right?"

Heresy, heresy!

:-)

Jay said...

It's similar in the sense that you go into an area with a preconceived notion about the way that a certain people / group / organization will think / act and then you wait around until they prove you right

Except that isn't what O'Keefe did at all.

Matt said...

Jay said...

Except that isn't what O'Keefe did at all.

So you're saying O'Keefe has no agenda whatsoever? He just sort of unwittingly stumbles upon these opportunities that serve conservative talking points?

Jay said...

Matt said...
So you're saying O'Keefe has no agenda whatsoever?


Way to move the goal posts.

Look: what you posted is idiotic.

So just follow the 1st rule of holes and move on.

Thanks.

Jay said...

t's similar in the sense that you go into an area with a preconceived notion about the way that a certain people / group / organization will think / act and then you wait around until they prove you right

You can't seem to understand that what O'Keefe was doing was shedding a spot light on how these people actually behave since it is never reported. O'Keefe wasn't pursuing a narrative, O'Keefe was merely showing things as they actually are.

You trying to compare that to a NYT reporter is silly and absurd.

But of course you must create this silly little lie to create a false equivalence.

That's dumb.

Deb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rrsafety said...

I'm just surprised that so few commenters question the wisdom of allowing a five year old to carry a rifle. This wasn't an "accident". It was an easily preventable death.

rrsafety said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ritchie The Riveter said...

My father often complained about how the TV crews would visit his native Appalachia in the 1960's, and film run-down shacks to "illustrate" the poverty that was being used as part of the justification for the Great Society welfare state ... in a lot of locations, had the crews simply zoomed out a little, well-kept, structurally-and-cosmetically sound homes would be visible in the areas immediately adjacent to a shack.

Skepticism over the motives of the NYT is justified ... they have their Narrative to maintain, just as they did back then ... but civilization extends well inland beyond the Delaware River (and the Sierra Nevada). Just because it's different, doesn't mean it lacks virtue.

Matt said...

Jay

O'Keefe wasn't pursuing a narrative


Ahaha! That's funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Everybody in the media and every documentarian and filmmaker pursues a narrative. This includes newspapers, websites, TV news, liberal and conservative blogs. ALL of them. And we, as partisan consumers, pick and choose the narratives [and media outlets] that fit into our way of seeing the world. Huffington Post has their demographic and Hot Air has a completely different group. Both are partisan with their own versions of ‘the truth’.

The only real questions are how one-sided each media outlet is and how often we choose to either blindly believe all of it versus pausing to detect the political bias and see the bigger picture.

Moneyrunner said...

Let’s see if I have this right. Everyone has a narrative. When the Obama administration told us that the Benghazi attack was the result a spontaneous demonstration, they were following a narrative. When people who were there said there was no demonstration but an attack, they were following a different narrative. Just two competing narratives and how to choose between them? It’s a puzzlement. Moving on … I sure hope it turns out that the Boston marathon bombers were white member of the Tea Party. It makes the narrative much more convenient.

acm said...

Rrsafety, most of us aren't talking about the parents because the linked story wasn't about them, or the death of the daughter. It was about the town, Trip Gabriel, and their backwards, incomprehensible rejection of Gabriel's generous offer to splash the blood of a townsperson all over that there big city newspaper. The headline wasn't "Child Killed By Gun" it was a slightly different iteration of "Mean Hillbillies Were Rude To Noble Interloper".

Synova said...

"It's similar in the sense that you go into an area with a preconceived notion about the way that a certain people / group / organization will think / act and then you wait around until they prove you right. Even if you have to provoke. Then from that you draw generalized conclusions. It's a tactic that is used by both liberals and conservatives in media to support their world view or the world view of their readers / followers."

Really Matt, you're going with that?

O'Keefe "provoked" people by saying "I want to set up my girlfriend in a house as a prostitute with underaged girls from El Salvador... how can she get a house loan?" and "provoked" the ACORN lady into saying "bury your money in a can in the yard", "make sure you teach those girls to read", and "put it down on your taxes as "professional entertainer.""

This guy was trying to "provoke" the grieving people of this town the way that a street-corner doom crier evangelical "provokes" religious persecution by being an obnoxious ass, so that he can prove that he's doing the will of the Lord on account of being persecuted for the Gospel.... sort of like (gasp) Westboro Baptists do.

Synova said...

Either that or he really and truly thought that the townspeople were so incredibly thick that they'd never notice that he despised them and consequently honestly can't imagine that they were reacting to HIM and not the death of a little girl.

Christy Appleby said...

Gabriel, the reporter that is telling his side of the story, failed to mention some important facts. The reason no one would speak with him, is because he came during the funeral. Family and friends gave many interviews in the days leading up to the funeral. Gabriel was chasing grieving family and friends as they exited the funeral. These people had just gone through two hours of horror. They were trying to get to their cars to go to the cemetery. This man continued to chase everyone down. The family ask him to stop harassing people. If Gabriel had wanted some interviews. He should have came to Burkesville before the actual funeral.
Then we have the German Cameraman. He had been in Burkesville for a couple days. Many of the locals had been interviewed, as well as the family. The family made one request to this cameraman, they ask to please not video the grieving parents or the little girls casket. The cameraman and his sidekick refused to leave. They were ask over and over. I personally ask them to leave. I tried to block there view and the cameraman smacked my hand. Now he supposedly has gotten a warrant for someone putting there hands on him. Come on!! He smacks a woman for blocking his view, but cries when someone allegedly touches him.
If you ask me, the crew from Germany and Gabriel were very disrespectful. And as far as this article claiming he was the only person reporting this, really? Use Google and see what you find. I don't think there is a news station that hasn't covered it. Actually the only story Gabrial is reporting is, no one would cooperate and that everyone was rude. Watch the interviews with the other stations, the ones that came before Saturday. And as far as being rude, could you imagine walking to your car after a funeral and being jumped by a reporter? I think rude would be most peoples reaction.

Christy Appleby said...

Gabriel, the reporter that is telling his side of the story, failed to mention some important facts. The reason no one would speak with him, is because he came during the funeral. Family and friends gave many interviews in the days leading up to the funeral. Gabriel was chasing grieving family and friends as they exited the funeral. These people had just gone through two hours of horror. They were trying to get to their cars to go to the cemetery. This man continued to chase everyone down. The family ask him to stop harassing people. If Gabriel had wanted some interviews. He should have came to Burkesville before the actual funeral.
Then we have the German Cameraman. He had been in Burkesville for a couple days. Many of the locals had been interviewed, as well as the family. The family made one request to this cameraman, they ask to please not video the grieving parents or the little girls casket. The cameraman and his sidekick refused to leave. They were ask over and over. I personally ask them to leave. I tried to block there view and the cameraman smacked my hand. Now he supposedly has gotten a warrant for someone putting there hands on him. Come on!! He smacks a woman for blocking his view, but cries when someone allegedly touches him.
If you ask me, the crew from Germany and Gabriel were very disrespectful. And as far as this article claiming he was the only person reporting this, really? Use Google and see what you find. I don't think there is a news station that hasn't covered it. Actually the only story Gabrial is reporting is, no one would cooperate and that everyone was rude. Watch the interviews with the other stations, the ones that came before Saturday. And as far as being rude, could you imagine walking to your car after a funeral and being jumped by a reporter? I think rude would be most peoples reaction.

Christy Appleby said...

Gabriel, the reporter that is telling his side of the story, failed to mention some important facts. The reason no one would speak with him, is because he came during the funeral. Family and friends gave many interviews in the days leading up to the funeral. Gabriel was chasing grieving family and friends as they exited the funeral. These people had just gone through two hours of horror. They were trying to get to their cars to go to the cemetery. This man continued to chase everyone down. The family ask him to stop harassing people. If Gabriel had wanted some interviews. He should have came to Burkesville before the actual funeral.
Then we have the German Cameraman. He had been in Burkesville for a couple days. Many of the locals had been interviewed, as well as the family. The family made one request to this cameraman, they ask to please not video the grieving parents or the little girls casket. The cameraman and his sidekick refused to leave. They were ask over and over. I personally ask them to leave. I tried to block there view and the cameraman smacked my hand. Now he supposedly has gotten a warrant for someone putting there hands on him. Come on!! He smacks a woman for blocking his view, but cries when someone allegedly touches him.
If you ask me, the crew from Germany and Gabriel were very disrespectful. And as far as this article claiming he was the only person reporting this, really? Use Google and see what you find. I don't think there is a news station that hasn't covered it. Actually the only story Gabrial is reporting is, no one would cooperate and that everyone was rude. Watch the interviews with the other stations, the ones that came before Saturday. And as far as being rude, could you imagine walking to your car after a funeral and being jumped by a reporter? I think rude would be most peoples reaction.

Aridog said...

Christy Appleby ... as a person whole lives in the community, your comment is appreciated....certainly by me. Thank you.

You go straight to the point that the "reporter" chose to arrive during the funeral...the least opportune, least courteous and respectful time possible.