May 31, 2013

"This boils my skin. One of my entire shifts will go 6.5 hours without a meal."

"If we need to cut back on money I could come up with 100 other places.... Instead, we will target the biggest contributor to morale. I must be losing my mind. What is our senior leadership thinking? I just got back from flying my ass off and in a few days, I will not have a meal to replenish me after being away for over 9 hours.'"

A Marine at Camp Leatherneck in Afghanistan.

112 comments:

Oso Negro said...

Will the White House go with meals in solidarity? Somehow, I doubt it. The USMC is probably the most reliably conservative agency within the Federal Government. No surprise that their support is being reduced.

rcocean said...

Sorry Marines, Amnesty is coming and we gotta save up for all those illegal aliens needing healthcare and welfare.

Signed

Johnny McCain

P.S. Me too - Lindsey Graham.

edutcher said...

The first thing is to stop holding Prince Fauntleroy's umbrellas.

Seriously, even Willie the closet Commie and the Hildabeast didn't pull this.

If he thinks the military is too dumb to blame anybody but him, he may be in for a rude awakening.

edutcher said...

Oso Negro said...

The USMC is probably the most reliably conservative agency within the Federal Government.

Don't count on that one.

I've seen a lot of Lefty Marines over the years.

Mogget said...

LOL, whoever made the decision to cut food from deployed military folks is going to regret it. Quickly. I am sure the Pentagon will find something else to trim.

rcocean said...

yo también

Marcos Rubio Senador Estados Unidos de América

bagoh20 said...

This is simply necessary logistics. You can't send the troops home first, and leave the sandwich makers there with mustard and plastic silverware to defend themselves.

Love you guys, but suck it up one last time. You've earned a lot of respect all these years. Don't blow it now for yourselves and those who came before.

stutefish said...

The army marches on its stomach. Woe to the commander who forgets this truth.

Any civilization with an ounce of martial pride would impeach a president who allowed this.

Amartel said...

This really is galactically stupid and arrogant. Of course there are other places to cut back other than depriving men in the field of hot meals but Obama chooses to target a reliably conservative group. (Of course there are lefty Marines. I know one well. This does not change the fact that this is a reliably conservative group.)

Third Coast said...

Obama is just now finding out about this like the rest of us. I'm sure he'll fix it as soon as he gets off the golf course.

Gene said...

"I will not have a meal to replenish me after being away for over 9 hours."

"I will not have a meal to replenish me"???

Since when did Marines start talking like this? The ones I knew would have said, "What the fuck is this? I bust my ass all day and when I get back there's no fucking food???"

Ann Althouse said...

Did anyone else think it was strange that a guy that said "this boils my skin" also said "a meal to replenish me"?

Ann Althouse said...

Jinx!

Gene said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

Food is not that costly, is it?

What kind of savings could they possibly be talking about?

john said...

Nine hours without a hot meal!

Wow, that's nearly like breakfast till dinner.

Or late breakfast till early dinner.

Or dinner till breakfast.

Back in LRP days we got one hot every other day. Plus we had to boil our own water.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Read the article guys. Bagh2o is right. I was ready to redline the outrage meter but it makes sense.

bagoh20 said...

When you leave without total victory, this is how you have to do it. You don't want be airlifting the cooks off of rooftops like in Saigon.

bpm4532 said...

We've gotta pay for Obama's White House parties and concerts somehow.

edutcher said...

This is supposed to be another example of how terrible sequestration is.

Barry (and some of the people here questioning the Marine's speech) seem to think the old wheeze about, "There's no such thing as smart Marine", is still true.

AprilApple said...

Beyoncé party at the WHITE HOUSE!

glenn said...

If we'd sent the Air Force along about Sept 12th 2001 this wouldn't be an issue.

SteveR said...

Yeah its not about money, its logistics. Probably could have been planned better but most Marines will just do their duty with or without adequate replenishment.

cubanbob said...

When you leave without total victory, this is how you have to do it. You don't want be airlifting the cooks off of rooftops like in Saigon."

Damn! That's cold but too bitterly true.

bagoh20 said...

"If we'd sent the Air Force along about Sept 12th 2001 this wouldn't be an issue."

You have to wonder about that. If we just went in full bore airpower with carpet bombing of the mountain hideout areas and cruise missiles aimed aimed at leadership and resources of the Taliban, and kept it up for a couple months while gathering intel to focus the aim, then just left, would things be any worse or better at this point in time.

It definitely would have cost a lot less in heroes, money, political capital, and national prestige. It also seems in a way a more appropriate response to the kind of attack 9/11 was. You sucker punch us, and we kick the shit out of you, we don't try to civilize your ass.

AprilApple said...

P A R T Y at the White House.

bagoh20 said...

I was in favor of Iraq, and I was pleased to see Al Qaeda run in there to be slaughtered by the U.S military as they well deserved, but in the end, it would have been better to kill them in Afghanistan hot and heavy right up front. Our democracy is too self-absorbed to do what makes the most sense. We have to be careful and measured, and let them shoot first, like Andrew Jackson, but then we fire over their heads out of some kind of one-sided honor system, while they reload, and call some friends to bring out their pistols too.

Sam L. said...

It's that damned SEQUESTER!

Inga said...

My daughter laughed this. When she was there she didn't get to eat three meals a day on any given day. Her work station required her to be at it 12 hours a day, seven days a week, yes no days off.

Suck it up.

Inga said...

She was at Camp Leatherneck for an entire year.

rcocean said...

Its terrible that Americans who are fighting and dying in a war that no one understands about or cares about can't have a hot meal.

Where is 60 minutes?

glenn said...

Suggested reading on the subject of letting thugs get away with being thugs.

1. The first 300 pages of William L Shirers "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"

2. "The Gathering Storm". The first volume of Churchills six volume WW2 memoirs.

3. " Berlin Diary" Once again Shirer and his account of Berlin ans Europe as Hitler and his crowd of thugs came to power. And the feckless an idiotic response of the rest of Civilization.

Chef Mojo said...

Sounds like an aviator. They're used to 3 squares a day. He should probably stop his bitching and moaning and hope that the guys on the perimeter are the ones getting "replenished."

FedkaTheConvict said...

Eh...no different from the average exempt employee in corporate America.

glenn said...

And actually thinking a little we should have sent the Air Force right after the thugs attacked the Berlin Olympics in 1972. We knew who did it, we knew who funded it and because the victims were Jews we ... ummm .... sorta let it slide. Once they got away with that the rest was childs play.

Synova said...

"My daughter laughed this. When she was there she didn't get to eat three meals a day on any given day. Her work station required her to be at it 12 hours a day, seven days a week, yes no days off.

Suck it up.
"

Imagine if the one hot meal your daughter *could* get to every day got cancelled.

Still want to say "suck it up?"

Synova said...

In fact, according to the article, the first hot meal being cancelled was the one at the end and beginning of those 12 hour shifts.

Inga said...

My daughter would and has sucked it up. My daughter got one hot meal per day Synova. Her breakfast was the instant oatmeals and cream of wheat packets we sent her, she had a electric teapot ( for hot water) in her can ( room). For lunch she most often stayed at her work station and had meal on a cup thingie we sent her.

Inga said...

Meals IN a cup things.

Inga said...

Many families send numerous packages as well as various organizations, they have more than enough treats and meals and snacks. Camp Leatherneck even has a coffee shop.

Chef Mojo said...

Inga is right. Those Marines are supposed to suck it up and carry on. End of story. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but that's not the point.

Marines are, quite simply, supposed to suck it up. That's their job. It's what they do. Their predecessors in previous wars went through far, far worse, and they're supposed to remember that.

The Drill SGT said...

Back in LRP days we got one hot every other day. Plus we had to boil our own water.

LOL

In the 'old' days, I heated my C's by leaving them on top of the Jeep manifold for 2 hours.

In the even older days, when I didn't have a Jeep, we used to heat C's with a marble size bit of C-4 taken from a claymore

In the worst, oldest times, it was 2 cold C's a day...

Synova said...

"My daughter got one hot meal per day Synova."

Yeah? And wasn't that my point?

Would it really be no big deal at all, impact her morale not at all, if her SINGLE hot meal a day is the one they cancelled?

Is it really no big deal if the guys who go out on patrol end up missing because they're just not back to base at the right time?

Oh sure, granted, Marines are supposed to suck it up and MREs are actually not bad. The point is the pointlessness of it. Why NOT have sandwiches available 24 hours a day? Why NOT have a meal at both of the main shift change times?

The Drill SGT said...

PS: as an officer, you eat last in the field, which means either nothing or a triple dose of cold mushy eggs from the bottom of the marmite can a soggy toast. no way bacon made it to the last guy...

Inga said...

Yes, you're right Synova, that was your point, sorry, but this is a tempest in a teapot. I think someone is trying to imply we aren't caring for our troops under Obama's administration, which is silly.

The Drill SGT said...

Synova said...
Why NOT have a meal at both of the main shift change times?


The story I read said they were going from four hot meals a day (0000,0600, 1200, 1800) (plus/minus 1-2 hours of serving times to three hots a day plus C's at midnite.

Gene said...

"Barry (and some of the people here questioning the Marine's speech) seem to think the old wheeze about, "There's no such thing as smart Marine", is still true."

I'd rephrase that to say there is no such thing as a prissy marine, but apparently not any more.

edutcher said...

Chef Mojo said...

Inga is right. Those Marines are supposed to suck it up and carry on. End of story. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but that's not the point.

Marines are, quite simply, supposed to suck it up. That's their job. It's what they do. Their predecessors in previous wars went through far, far worse, and they're supposed to remember that.


No, suck it up is when you have no other choice (and we can go into the She Devil of the SS' family and their real lives later) because not sucking it up will get some of guys killed.

Soldiers do it, so do sailors on shore duty. But to make them suck it up when there's no good reason eventually degrades efficiency. Suck it up is really just a macho term for privation and we all know privation takes a toll.

Napoleon understood that.

George Marshall, remembering WWI, understood that.

This is about Little Barry trying to make things as tough on as many people as possible so they'll write to the mean old Republicans and tell them to stop the mean old sequester so Little Barry can spend more money we don't have.

I'm sure there are a couple of officers' clubs at Pendleton or Lejeune that could be closed or some other measure, but denying Marines (or soldiers or sailors) a hot meal (or any meal) is something that makes the wires and gets on the 6 o'clock news and we all know it.

The Drill SGT said...

Back in LRP days we got one hot every other day. Plus we had to boil our own water.

LOL

In the 'old' days, I heated my C's by leaving them on top of the Jeep manifold for 2 hours.

In the even older days, when I didn't have a Jeep, we used to heat C's with a marble size bit of C-4 taken from a claymore

In the worst, oldest times, it was 2 cold C's a day...


And you walked 40 miles uphill through waist-deep snow to get to it, right?

AJ Lynch said...

Yeah but we can afford to take photo ops of 30 bigwigs in the White House situation room yakking about hurricanes.

AJ Lynch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

In my experience, Marines can handle almost anything, but they still love to bitch about it.

bagoh20 said...

I'm not comparing a life stateside to service in country, but I spent a couple years as a flat broke bachelor, and lived many days without a hot meal, and even then the meal was often little more than rice or beans boiled in water. I had priorities, and needed to save up for the traditional Friday night Tequila shots with potato chips around the wire spool table and grocery carton stools. Living the good life in sunny California, and doing what it takes to stay out of western PA winters.

Synova said...

"In my experience, Marines can handle almost anything, but they still love to bitch about it."

When you join the military you give up a number of your rights in exchange for the right to bitch about it. ;)

Synova said...

That, and the right to tell "No shit, there I was," stories.

ironrailsironweights said...

. If we just went in full bore airpower with carpet bombing of the mountain hideout areas and cruise missiles aimed aimed at leadership and resources of the Taliban, and kept it up for a couple months while gathering intel to focus the aim, then just left, would things be any worse or better at this point in time.
It definitely would have cost a lot less in heroes, money, political capital, and national prestige. It also seems in a way a more appropriate response to the kind of attack 9/11 was. You sucker punch us, and we kick the shit out of you, we don't try to civilize your ass.


The United States no longer has the will to fight an all-out, scorched-earth, kill-them-all-and-let-Mohammed-sort-them-out type of unlimited warfare. We worry about civilian casualties and try to win their hearts and minds. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that U.S. deaths invariably are going to be higher in any war.

Peter

ironrailsironweights said...

MREs are actually not bad

Then why are they called Meals Rejected by Ethiopians?

Peter

Big Mike said...

And you walked 40 miles uphill through waist-deep snow to get to it, right?

And I mean to tell you, sonny, Viet Nam had a lot of snow in them days!

Cedarford said...

Gigundo crybaby, taking his problems outside the chain of command and not working on a "make-do". And that if leadership is not working hard to make things as good as possible, that is a failure of leadership.

In the Gulf War, in the middle of the boonies, we had "off-shift" rations that if we didn't innovate - would have been the like of frozen and rethawed Wonder bread the AF paid some connected defense contractor 15 dollars a loaf to fly in from Egypt with Korean War era peanut butter canned C-rations.

Recognizing enlisted morale was important, as well as commissioned "techies" - we got frozen food from Saudi outlets and this amazing thing called a "microwave" from Saudi vendors..just pooled a little money.
We had our Saudi AF hosts, who alternated between hating us and being incredibly considerate hosts, lend us their Pakistani cooks to prepare and cart in 20 gallon vats of rice pilaf that stayed warm all through the night and when we got to know the Pakis better and paid them better than the Saudis (again out of our pockets), vats of fresh vegetables and beef, chicken, lamb curry. Honey sweets.

And there were always MREs. Which really aren't that bad. Though they range from the delicious SW chicken and peach cobbler to the disgusting tuna cassarole.

I understand that Afghanistan has no shortage of Bush's "Noble Freedom Lovers" that not only want to shoot Americans in the back, but would consider poisoning the food.
But there is plenty of room for innovation, rather than this Marine's attitude that he is entitled to a 24/7 Burger King costing 16 million a year to taxpayers to run (Yes, at one point, the Bush Administration on the no cost is too much for the Heroes!..premise.... Had fucking Burger Kings, Cinnabons, Pizza Hut franchises cooking up free food to The Heroes 24/7. )

edutcher said...

ironrailsironweights said...

The United States no longer has the will to fight an all-out, scorched-earth, kill-them-all-and-let-Mohammed-sort-them-out type of unlimited warfare. We worry about civilian casualties and try to win their hearts and minds. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that U.S. deaths invariably are going to be higher in any war.

Baloney.

Even in our last "good" war, the US did everything to make life bearable for the troops and, yes, that meant hot meals and other amenities when possible, whether it was New Guinea in summer or Italy in January.

I'm getting weary of people talking as if the Army (or Marines) should go back to hardtack and beans with a cut of bad meat once a week. Yeah, those guys could suck it up and they really hated it. Eventually people like Elihu Root realized you get more out of soldiers if you treat them decently.

Irony of ironies, the Rangers, probably the toughest guys in the American military, have done studies of what the best nutritional balance is. They know doing without means an inferior soldier.

ironrailsironweights said...

The United States no longer has the will to fight an all-out, scorched-earth, kill-them-all-and-let-Mohammed-sort-them-out type of unlimited warfare. We worry about civilian casualties and try to win their hearts and minds. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that U.S. deaths invariably are going to be higher in any war.

Baloney.
Even in our last "good" war, the US did everything to make life bearable for the troops and, yes, that meant hot meals and other amenities when possible, whether it was New Guinea in summer or Italy in January.


I'm not talking about treatment of our own troops, but about our willingness to kill enemy civilians and destroy enemy countries.

Peter

LilyBart said...


This is all part of the plan. Face with minor cuts (sequestration), the Obama administration makes no efforts to cut things that are superfluous, but instead cuts things that are most visible and upsetting to people. Its all very cynical.

I blame the people who voted for this awful administration.

glenn said...

Go read the books, if you do it right the troops are home eating steak..

Jeff said...

Bagoh20 is partly right. This has nothing to do with budget cuts. The story itself says so. The actual combat soldiers are always the last to leave when you're pulling out.

What this story is really telling us is that Camp Leatherneck has been a total failure. If the troops there had succeeded in pacifying the local area, you wouldn't have Marines feeding other Marines. The Marines would have hired local civilians to run the mess halls, with only a few senior NCO's needed for supervision.

But we have been unable to use local civilians for stuff like this in Afghanistan because we are unable to figure out who among the local civilians is Taliban or Al Qaeda and who is not. Some of the locals could tell us, but they don't. Evidently they're too scared to, which just shows again that the mission has failed.

John said...

Suggest you all read the article before commenting.

They are not taking away any meals. The troops still get their 4 meals a day, just that midrats will not be hot.

Or rather, they will have to heat their own midrats.

We hear a lot about MRE's and how horrible they are. One of my packaging students, who was in the National Guard, once served the class an assortment of MRE's. The stew and a couple of other things were self-heating.

For someone like me who has eaten C-Rations and LERPS back in the day, MREs seemed pretty tasty.

Mid-rats are something of a tradition on Navy ships. Didn't realize they had them in the Marines.

John Henry

Kelly said...

If Inga is really soooo familiar and such an expert with the way the military really is, she would know that bitching and complaining is the rule of the day. And really Inga, who gives a fuck what your daughter dealt with. Suck it up.

John said...

Synova,

What is a "no shit, there I was..." story?

Is that like a fairy tale?

the difference between a sea story and a fairy tale is that one begins "Once upon a time..." and the other "Now this ain't no shit..."

And, as someone said, bitching about chow is a time honored tradition in the military. Troops, and sailors, could have chow catered on silver plates by Le Cirque and would still bitch about it. Sometimes it was the only entertainment we had.

John Henry

John Henry

Inga said...

Kelly, I know what my daughter who has been in the military for 11 years has told me. And my daughter has done her fair share of bitching, but she won't resort to whining. I suggest you go get fucked.

Jeff Teal said...

In Reagans day we went to 2 MRE and an A ration in the field for a daily cycle.We saved cheese sauce from the MREs and dehydrated pork patties then put them together with ramen noodles in a canteen cup with Tabasco.Did it suck? Yes did we adapt improvise and overcome?Yes.When did small unit leadership forget that the first job of an NCO is to take care of their troops?

edutcher said...

ironrailsironweights said...

I'm not talking about treatment of our own troops, but about our willingness to kill enemy civilians and destroy enemy countries.

Until the end of the Cold War, that sounded better than it actually was. To go that route risked nuclear war.

Now, with 'Nam and Iraq and A-stan behind us, the "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" stuff sounds great, but isn't practical. People in France put up with it in WWII, but that was a different war. Fact is, we made a lot of mistakes back then that we didn't realize until after it was over.

You want to go in and just butcher everybody, you'd better be prepared to occupy the place for a couple hundred years because somebody else will take advantage of the power vacuum if we don't.

You don't want to be an imperial power, then you'd better make some friends there who will hold the fort after we go home.

Wars always leave a lot of loose ends. we learned that the hard way in 1945.

bagoh20 said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
"... Bagh2o is right."

Jeff said...
"Bagoh20 is partly right. "

Bill is a genius, and Jeff is getting there.
Ask them how you too can make big bucks right from your home commenting on Althouse.
Stop that tedious commute to work and try the new Praise Bagoh20 - work from home program. You might wish you could afford a new Iphone 9.

Well, you can't have that, but if you're an American citizen you are entitled to:
a heated kidney shaped pool,
a microwave oven--don't watch the food cook,
a Dyna-Gym--I'll personally demonstrate it in the privacy of your own home,
a king-size Titanic unsinkable Molly Brown waterbed with polybendum,
a foolproof plan and an airtight alibi,
real simulated Indian jewelry,
a Gucci shoetree,
a year's supply of antibiotics,
a personally autographed picture of Randy Mantooth
and Bob Dylan's new unlisted phone number,
a beautifully restored 3rd Reich swizzle stick,
Rosemary's baby,
a dream date in kneepads with Paul Williams,
a new Matador, a new mastodon,
a Maverick, a Mustang, a Montego,
a Merc Montclair, a Mark IV, a meteor,
a Mercedes, an MG, or a Malibu,
a Mort Moriarty, a Maserati, a Mac truck,
a Mazda, a new Monza, or a moped,
a Winnebago--Hell, a herd of Winnebago's we're giving 'em away,
or how about a McCulloch chainsaw,
a Las Vegas wedding,
a Mexican divorce,
a solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot,
or a baby's arm holding an apple?

bagoh20 said...

"You want to go in and just butcher everybody, you'd better be prepared to occupy the place for a couple hundred years because somebody else will take advantage of the power vacuum if we don't. "

We didn't butcher every Kraut, or Jap, but they sure as hell figured out that slapping us again was not gonna be a good idea. That's something we have not accomplished in Afghanistan, despite it being the only reason we went there. Maybe we should consider the proven strategy over the often failed one.

Inga said...

I'll have that solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot, thanks so much.

bagoh20 said...

Props to The Tubes.

bagoh20 said...

Oh I forgot. I wanted to add: "Inga, suck it up!" I just like the way that sounds.

Skyler said...

My battalion was responsible for external security of Camp Leatherneck in most of 2011. I really find this complaint to be absurd. The meals are so lavish over there. I felt like I was living in a hotel. Except for the absence from home it was hardly arduous.

When we are preparing to pull out, regardless of whether that is wise or not, cutting back on the meals is not really that much to require. I would be embarrassed to complain about that. They've been spoiled, plain and simple.

Inga said...

Naughty.

glenn said...

Helpful hint #22. If you are involved somewhere and can't tell the friends from the foes it's time to beat feet. And like I said SEND THE AIR FORCE. We built all that cool stuff for a reason.

Inga said...

Thank you Skylar, that's precisely why my daughter laughed at this article.

chrisnavin.com said...

The language is off.

This really grabs my goat, you sense my drift? Where am I going to consume?

edutcher said...

bagoh20 said...

You want to go in and just butcher everybody, you'd better be prepared to occupy the place for a couple hundred years because somebody else will take advantage of the power vacuum if we don't.

We didn't butcher every Kraut, or Jap, but they sure as hell figured out that slapping us again was not gonna be a good idea. That's something we have not accomplished in Afghanistan, despite it being the only reason we went there. Maybe we should consider the proven strategy over the often failed one.


Uh, that "proven strategy" made us maintain an armed force not only for us, but for Europe and Japan, which many people whine about because they're still over there.

What we did was destroy their war-making potential at a cost of around a million casualties for us and another million for the Limeys. the Russkies lost 20 million.

Want to go through that again?

And this time, we don't have a corner on nuclear weapons.

A-stan should be a spec ops war, but our Genius in Chief wanted to do it his way, and we've lost more guys in his first 3 years there than in all 8 of Dubya's. The Russkies tried it the ghastly way and it didn't work, either.

And most of Mexico, we left to the Mexicans back in '48. Most of what we kept was uninhabited - except by the Indians. Even the Mexican couldn't settle it.

As my whimsy leads me.. said...

"In my experience, Marines can handle almost anything, but they still love to bitch about it."

I think Palladian is right. The Marine's quote is from an e-mail to his wife. Of course he's going to vent more. My son was there last year at this time. It's starting to get hot, they've been there a long time, they don't see a whole lot of further purpose being there. They are going to complain when something they like is taken away. Food is something they think about all the time, and MREs get monotonous, even though they are not bad (I'm told. The ones I have are in the back of my car as an emergency food source.)

Toy

Eric said...

"The USMC is probably the most reliably conservative agency within the Federal Government."

Don't count on that one.

I've seen a lot of Lefty Marines over the years.


Sure, but it's all relative. Compared to, say, the IRS...

Henry said...

I was kind of worried about this thread until The Drill Sgt showed up. Props to Bagoh20 and Skyler as well. One of the cool things about the Althouse forum is the commentary from experience. On the military threads this is especially illuminating. Thanks. For everything.

edutcher said...

True.

glenn said...

Helpful hint #22. If you are involved somewhere and can't tell the friends from the foes it's time to beat feet. And like I said SEND THE AIR FORCE. We built all that cool stuff for a reason.

Unhelpful reality #1.

We tried that in 'Nam.

Didn't work.

Skyler said...

And just to further clarify, the guys out on the FOB's are lucky to get hot chow at all for six months.

Morale is always better the closer you are to the fighting, and that's why these guys are complaining. They aren't seeing a bigger perspective.

Paul said...

And one day a Cesar will bring his legions across the Rubicon and march on Rome.

And Obama, you ain't no Cesar.

bagoh20 said...

"Want to go through that again?"

Of course not, and nobody is suggesting storming the wide beaches of Afghanistan - just the opposite. Blast everything owned and occupied by the Taliban and walk away. The next regime will get the message. Instead, we accomplished little at great cost. I doubt we even managed to reduce collateral damage in the long run.

Our goal should have been damage and punishment to dissuade a repeat with minimal cost to ourselves, period. We failed on both counts. It could have been far worse of course, but we could have at least accomplished something effective. If it didn't cure the problem outright, a repeat treatment being minimal in cost to us would have been easy and sent the message clearly: "we can do this all day if needed."

The fact that we chose instead to use such an expensive and self-sacrificial method only assures our enemies that we won't be back, and that they will soon be safe to return to their nasty business.

I used to think the opposite - that our commitment proved how far we will go, but that's not scary if you leave without winning. Scary is being ready to strike again and again, but now that's more a message they send to us than the other way around.

bagoh20 said...

"We tried that in 'Nam.

Didn't work."


According to the North Vietnamese Generals, I saw in an interview it did. They were prepared to give up after all the bombing if the Tet offensive failed, which it did, until the American media turned it into a victory, much to the surprise of the North. The Vietnamese war was the most successful war ever lost.

Joe said...

The solution is to end this stupid war and stop getting our soldiers killed for no damn reason.

Palladian said...

I like the jambalaya MRE.

edutcher said...

bagoh20 said...

Want to go through that again?

Of course not, and nobody is suggesting storming the wide beaches of Afghanistan - just the opposite. Blast everything owned and occupied by the Taliban and walk away. The next regime will get the message.


Really?

These people believe they go to Heaven if they die in jihad. you've got to be able to find somebody who sees things your way on the other side.

So far, we haven't. They just keep coming back.

Maybe the Special Forces way is the right one, after all.

We tried that in 'Nam.

Didn't work.


According to the North Vietnamese Generals, I saw in an interview it did. They were prepared to give up after all the bombing if the Tet offensive failed, which it did, until the American media turned it into a victory, much to the surprise of the North. The Vietnamese war was the most successful war ever lost.


I don't who that was, but the only general that counted, Vo Nguyen Giap, said "If I kill 100,000 Americans, I win".

And the NVA lost nothing in Tet. It was the VC that was decimated and those that survived the war were exterminated. The people in the North were sharing power with nobody.

That general may have been telling you what you wanted to hear.

ironrailsironweights said...

MREs get monotonous, even though they are not bad (I'm told. The ones I have are in the back of my car as an emergency food source.)

Dry dog food kibble is the best emergency ration to keep in your car. It's cheap, nutritious for humans, has a very long shelf life, and best of all it'll be there if you need it because you certainly aren't going to be tempted to eat it in anything except the most dire emergency.

Peter

Browndog said...

First: Hey, you guys, hang out here until the date I set..meantime, I'll use ROE to triple the kill rate Bush had. Oh, by the way, no more Bibles, or preaching, but hang that fag flag-

Next: No more smoking! You bastards up there in the mountains, all 7 of you, taking mortars and sniper rounds--suck it up!

Then, when you get back to base, those Pizza Hut and Burger stands? Fuck you, this is the Military!

Finally, Inga has a daughter, and she's far more the man than any other!

Sissy Ass combat troops....

...Inga has a daughter, you pussies.

Inga said...

Browndoggy, did you bother reading what Skylar said?

David said...

Well, we are a long way from Valley Forge. Perhaps the late night hot meal cutback is not cause for great bitching.

On the other hand, at Valley Forge the commander shared the hardships of the troops.

The White House mess.

Browndog said...

Inglet-I read everything, patronize someone else....I'm sure you can.

Inga said...

But I choose you Browndoggy. You're special.

Browndog said...

Maybe it's a few spoiled troops whining.

Maybe it's the preponderance of a Commander in Chief sticking it to our Flag bearers.

One thing I do know- if these boys want a cigarette, or a slice of pizza, or a hot meal after spending God knows how long on the side of a mountain, while their Commander in Chief funds their enemy--GIVE IT.

They shouldn't have to ask, should have to complain.

traditionalguy said...

This is standard Obama tricks to slyly let the soldiers know how much he despises them. It destroys the morale of men risking violent death every day to be reminded daily how little they are cared about in return by their nasty little Commander in Chief.

Inga said...

Skyler said.....

"My battalion was responsible for external security of Camp Leatherneck in most of 2011. I really find this complaint to be absurd. The meals are so lavish over there. I felt like I was living in a hotel. Except for the absence from home it was hardly arduous.

When we are preparing to pull out, regardless of whether that is wise or not, cutting back on the meals is not really that much to require. I would be embarrassed to complain about that. They've been spoiled, plain and simple."

5/31/13, 9:28 PM

Worth repeating.

Jeff said...

Damm if I ain't becoming a bagoh sycophant. He is saying here the same stuff I've inflicted on kids (who all got married and moved out) and ex-friends for years.

The right thing to do after 9/11 was demand that the Taliban give up Al Qaeda, or stand aside while we blew their asses to kingdom come. I think we did do that, but the Taliban did not cooperate.

So the next step was to help the Northern Alliance, who were already fighting the Taliban, to win. We started out doing that very effectively, and then some idiot decided that it wasn't enough to toss the Taliban out of power, we had to install a nice, Western-style government that everyone approved of as well. That turned victory into Mission Impossible. For one thing, it meant we had to somehow persuade the Pashtun to join the Tajiks of the Alliance and fight their fellow Pashtuns,the Taliban. In that society at that time, we were asking the impossible. So to sweeten the pot, we leaned on the Alliance, who did most of the fighting, to allow the installation of the Pashtun Karzai as President. You can see how well that worked out.

It is quite likely that if we had just let the Northern Alliance take over, the country would still have gone to hell in a handbasket. But there's no reason the condition of Afghanistan should have ever mattered to us. We should have been there to punish the Taliban for sheltering our enemy, Al Qaeda. Nothing more. The prisoners we took to Guantanomo should have been left to the tender mercies of the Alliance. The message to deliver is not "We're here to leapfrog you from the 12'th to the 20'th century", but "Don't tread on me!"

Iraq was an even bigger disaster. The main thing we accomplished there was to increase the influence of our mortal enemies, the mullahs of Iran.

The stupidity and incompetence of the neoconservative "National Greatness" crowd that hung out at the Weekly Standard and in the Bush administration has cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars.

Obama said he would stop that, but what he's actually done, with drones and the like, is to make things even worse.

Browndog said...

It destroys the morale..

This....

...ends the conversation. Period.

Synova said...

"Dry dog food kibble is the best emergency ration to keep in your car. It's cheap, nutritious for humans, has a very long shelf life, and best of all it'll be there if you need it because you certainly aren't going to be tempted to eat it in anything except the most dire emergency."

Indeed.

Browndog said...

Fact is, the Department of State dictates our military posture, while the Department of Defense is left holding an umbrella.

Jason said...

I've been an infantry HHC XO, acting HHC CO and acting HHC S-4 in combat, in far more austere situations than this. This is a non story.

Damn, OIF I was a while ago, huh?

We used to dream of getting things half as good as Leatherneck. Hell, we went months without a proper shower or shitter.

I guess the Marine expeditionary mentality is yet another casualty of the Obama Administration.

Jason said...

I've been an infantry HHC XO, acting HHC CO and acting HHC S-4 in combat, in far more austere situations than this. This is a non story.

Damn, OIF I was a while ago, huh?

We used to dream of getting things half as good as Leatherneck. Hell, we went months without a proper shower or shitter.

I guess the Marine expeditionary mentality is yet another casualty of the Obama Administration.

dwall1 said...

10's of thousands of NVA were killed and many more wounded and they ran home without their equipment and cong was wiped out. south Vietnamese performed well and our guys did their jobs, with less support than was available,, damnit.

Generals would have sued for peace within a year until they saw the ruckus in the US generated by commie CBS and uncle walter and other globalists. Killed a lot of
Americans as it dragged on,, ignorant.

And we did not fully use our Air Force, Rolling Thunder,,lol... There was so much more they could have done to end the war fast.. stupid presidents.

And this on's rules of engagements kill a lot of troops,, insane.

Skyler said...

Jason opined, "I guess the Marine expeditionary mentality is yet another casualty of the Obama Administration."

I don't think that's the case. Leatherneck is where all the reporters hang out, especially the ones who go there to say they've been in Afghanistan but don't want to go where they might have to miss a meal or get shot at.

The reporter is making a story of the only thing he sees, the natural complaining that happens when something nice goes away. That's all this is.

AllenS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason said...

Ah. So Leatherneck is the new Green Zone?

raf said...

I was puzzled at this whining from a Marine, but as someone else pointed out, he is an aviator. Aviators are special.

People griping about MREs should be sentenced to a diet of C-rations. Especially the "pork" served cold. That should shut them up.

Smilin' Jack said...

"Barry (and some of the people here questioning the Marine's speech) seem to think the old wheeze about, "There's no such thing as smart Marine", is still true."


Well, apparently they're not smart enough to use a microwave.